View source for Template talk:IPA pulmonic consonants

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== Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2019 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants|answered=yes}}
Add "ʈɻ̊˔" and "ɖɻ˔" to "Retroflex non-sibilant fricatives" [[User:AquaticCitrus2035|AquaticCitrus2035]] ([[User talk:AquaticCitrus2035|talk]]) 02:34, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{Not done}}. We only list sounds about which articles exist. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 03:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
What criteria are used for deciding which symbols not on the official chart appear here? They have to have their own distinct articles? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Matthewmorrone1|Matthewmorrone1]] ([[User talk:Matthewmorrone1#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthewmorrone1|contribs]]) 18:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)</small>

== Template:IPA_pulmonic_consonants/table ==
Cite literature? These consonants don't appear on the chart, and students have been more confused by a dot below than a ring on top. The chart does say a ring on top means the same thing, but does not have a combining dot below. 
[[User:Matthewmorrone1|Matthewmorrone1]] ([[User talk:Matthewmorrone1|talk]]) 18:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
Add "t̪" and "d̪" to "dental plosives" [[User:QuakDucc|QuakDucc]] ([[User talk:QuakDucc|talk]]) 16:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> We only list sounds about which articles exist.  [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

== extIPA ==

extIPA should be added <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.81.132.165|67.81.132.165]] ([[User talk:67.81.132.165#top|talk]]) 21:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)</small>

== Template-protected edit request on 8 June 2022 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
Request: change [[Postalveolar consonant|Post{{shy}}alveolar]] to [[Palato-alveolar consonant|Palato{{shy}}alveolar]]

Reason: [[Postalveolar consonant]] as the heading is inaccurate, since this category also includes [[Retroflex consonant]]s and [[Alveolo-palatal consonant]]s that are shown in the following two columns. [[User:Gu0427|Gu0427]] ([[User talk:Gu0427|talk]]) 02:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> Postalveolar is the term used by the International Phonetic Association to define {{angbr IPA|ʃ, ʒ}}. See also [https://books.google.com/books?id=33BSkFV_8PEC&pg=PA159 IPA Principles]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 04:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 9 July 2022 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
Add [[voiceless epiglottal affricate]] (ʡʜ) to the chart on the on the left side of the box containing ʡʢ. [[User:SlimyGecko7|SlimyGecko7]] ([[User talk:SlimyGecko7|talk]]) 15:16, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
:{{done}}. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'r&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>17:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)</small>

== Template-protected edit request on 18 July 2022 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
Add the [[voiced velar tap]] ([ɡ̆]) to the box right beneath the [[voiced velar approximant|approximant]] ([ɰ]). [[User:Doctor Zoath|Doctor Zoath]] ([[User talk:Doctor Zoath|talk]]) 22:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> see the '''{{diff|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table/sandbox|next|1100850483|sandbox}}''' to find that since [ɡ̆] is not an IPA symbol, the link is to the [[Extra-shortness]] article about the [[breve]], rather than to the correct article, [[Voiced velar tap]]. Placing the [ɡ̆] in the table with an incorrect link would be confusing to readers. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'r&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>00:38, 28 July 2022 (UTC)</small>
:: The same usage of the extra-short diacritic over stops is used for the uvular and pharyngeal taps / flaps so should they be removed for having the wrong link? The [[extra-shortness]] article also says that the diacritic is sometimes used for any flap consonants without IPA symbols because a flap is in effect a very brief stop. And above in an earlier thread in 2019, it says “We only list sounds about which articles exist.” Based on the chart currently in use, it doesn’t seem like that has changed. [[User:SlimyGecko7|SlimyGecko7]] ([[User talk:SlimyGecko7|talk]]) 17:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:::So you think the '''ɡ̆''' symbol for [[voiced velar tap]] should be included in the table even though it is not an IPA symbol and therefore links to the [[extra-shortness]] article instead of the "voiced velar tap" article? And just so it's mentioned, because this is not an IPA symbol, there is no audio in the {{tl|IPA soundbox/cell}} template for this sound. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'r&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>17:32, 29 July 2022 (UTC)</small>
::::If you checked some of the other sounds listed on the chart, you would notice many of these “non-IPA symbols” included in the chart, e.g. the previously mentioned uvular tap / flap, have no audio in their articles. Also, the article [[tap and flap consonants#Types of taps and flaps|tap and flap consonants]] mentions the sound in a chart as the only representation of a velar central oral tap / flap, a sound reported in Dàgáárè (source: https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005110/current.pdf?_s=XH49PPWYJlnZ9LED) and the [[Kamviri dialect]] as an intervocalic allophone of [g]. This same article states “If other flaps are found, the breve diacritic could be used to represent them, but would more properly be combined with the symbol for the corresponding voiced stop. A palatal or uvular tap or flap, which unlike a velar tap is believed to be articulatorily possible, could be represented this way (by *[ɟ̆, ɢ̆~ʀ̆]).” However as it states, a velar tap is believed to be articulatorily impossible. But the ğ symbol does follow what it says, the breve diacritic (for extra-short) would most properly be combined with the symbol for the corresponding voiced stop ([g], the voiced velar stop) However, the IPA suggests usage of the breve over trills, but not even some of the other taps / flaps in the chart follow that, instead using a breve over a stop. [[User:SlimyGecko7|SlimyGecko7]] ([[User talk:SlimyGecko7|talk]]) 19:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::::That's not the reason it didn't link to the article. It simply wasn't added to [[Module:IPA symbol/data]] after the article was created. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 21:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. It's marked impossible on the IPA chart, but it makes sense for this template, which is for navigation, to include it as long as the article about it exists. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 20:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::Thank you, {{u|Nardog}}''!'' Good to have someone here who knows much more than I do about this. I searched a long time unsuccessfully for a way to get the IPA link template to link to the correct article about the vvt. And I don't know enough Lua to be able to do what you did in the data module. Definitely above my pay grade. Thanks again''!'' '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'r&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>21:48, 29 July 2022 (UTC)</small>

== A couple of wrong links ==

The phonemes tɭ̊˔ and dɭ˔ appear to be linked to the incorrect articles, respectively going to [[Voiceless]] and [[Relative articulation#Raised_and_lowered]] instead of the expected [[Voiceless retroflex lateral affricate]] and [[Voiced retroflex lateral affricate]]. There may be other wrong links. [[User:Boershies|Boershies]] ([[User talk:Boershies|talk]]) 15:18, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 15:44, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

== Add voiceless retroflex non-sibilant fricative ==

{{Edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
The [[voiceless retroflex non-sibilant fricative]] has been found to occur in [[Ormuri]], so it would be good to add it to the table. [[User:Theknightwho|Theknightwho]] ([[User talk:Theknightwho|talk]]) 19:20, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ETp --> [[User:GKFX]]<sup>[[User talk:GKFX|talk]]</sup> 00:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

== Missing table borders? ==
Any particular reason there aren't borders below some of the cells, like β or ð? <span class="nowrap">—[[User:TechnoSquirrel69|TechnoSquirrel69]]</span> ([[User talk:TechnoSquirrel69|sigh]]) 00:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
:Because while {{angbr|β, ð, ʁ}} etc. canonically represent fricatives, they are often used to represent approximants and thus the linked articles discuss both fricatives and approximants. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 01:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
::{{Reply to|Nardog}} Sounds good, thanks! <span class="nowrap">—[[User:TechnoSquirrel69|TechnoSquirrel69]]</span> ([[User talk:TechnoSquirrel69|sigh]]) 02:57, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 18 May, 2023 ==

The retroflex sibilant affricates, [ʈʂ] and  [ɖʐ] are transcribed by <tʂ dʐ> can someone please fix this?
For unvoiced lateral affricates, fricatives, and taps, can we please stop using obsolete symbols and use standard IPA symbols with diacritics instead? [[User:Tdog500|Tdog500]] ([[User talk:Tdog500|talk]]) 20:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 20 July 2023 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
To the immediate left of ɭ can its voiceless counterpart ɭ̊ be added with a link to [[Voiceless retroflex lateral approximant]] (a redirect currently). This consonant is listed in inventories of [[Toda language|Toda]]. [[User:عُثمان|عُثمان]] ([[User talk:عُثمان|talk]]) 18:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> Voiceless "approximants" are not recognized by the IPA and don't have their own articles, so they're not linked. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 07:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nardog|Nardog]] Do you have a source for this lack of recognition? I was unable to find one. [[User:عُثمان|عُثمان]] ([[User talk:عُثمان|talk]]) 16:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
:::See [[Approximant#Voiceless approximants]]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 23:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 10 August 2023 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|answered=yes}}
{{IPA link|ɕ}} and {{IPA link|ʑ}} are shown as ''Palatal Sibilant fricative.'' They are marked as [[Voiced alveolo-palatal fricative]] and [[Voiced alveolo-palatal fricative]] in official IPA table and other sources too. ''Alveolo-palatal'' and ''palatal'' are not same. [[User:Sarangem|Sarangem]] ([[User talk:Sarangem|talk]]) 14:25, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

:From the [[Palatal consonant]] article, "In phonology, alveolo-palatal [...] consonants are commonly grouped as palatals, [...]". The two symbols in the [[:Template:IPA pulmonic consonants/table|IPA pulmonic consonants table]], {{IPA link|ɕ}} and {{IPA link|ʑ}}, are linked to their correct articles. Since there is no specific ''alveolo-palatal sibilant fricative'' grouping in this table, we are compelled to accept that they are intentionally being grouped as ''palatals'' as is commonly done. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'er&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>17:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Protected edit request on 8 October 2023 ==

{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
The [[voiceless upper-pharyngeal plosive]] and the [[voiced upper-pharyngeal plosive]] are not known to occur in any language except possibly [[Nǁng language|Nǁng]], but we have standalone articles about them. We would need a new column. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 06:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 06:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
:Perhaps the content of those articles better belongs in [[Voiceless uvular plosive]] and [[Voiced uvular plosive]]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 06:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

== May I add something? ==

I would like to add some things
For example:Adding their voiceless variations. [[User:Science boy 30|Science boy 30]] ([[User talk:Science boy 30|talk]]) 10:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)