View source for Template talk:IRAs

==too big?==
Has this template not grown out of control? I believe the template should only contain the following information:
- the various IRAs
and other important but general information such as 
- List of IRA Chiefs of Staff
- A link to the Category:Irish Republican Army

There is no need to list out a range of IRA members, former and current. As it stands, the selection is pretty random. If we were to include all the chiefs of staff, all the hunger strikes and all the other major historial figures who were associated with the IRA as well as the political parties associated with the IRA, the box would just become too unwieldly. 

How about trimming it down?--[[User:Damac|Damac]] 20:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:I agree entirely, and meant to suggest this some time ago. When the template was originally invented (and we were all a bit ratty at the time) it contained a fairly arbitrary list of "extras" which didn;t correspond to the articles in the category IRA. To get around the arbitrariness, I added all the articles in that category. Of course it would have been better simply to delete everything unnecessary, but I was a bit afraid that that might start a bigger row than the one we were already having. [[User:Palmiro|Palmiro]] | [[User talk:Palmiro|Talk]] 21:16, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

::I've had a go at this. I don't see any problem with the Sinn Feins etc going as well. Also, I would suggest a more obvious name: Template:IRA or Template:Irish Republican Army. This one is hard to find. 

::Also, and I suppose this is more a personal peeve than anything else: do we realy hae to have the Irish flag on this template? I know that nobody could seriously dispute the association of that flag with the original IRA, but its enthusiastic hijacking by the Provos makes its appearance here a bit grating to me and I suspect to other people as well. [[User:Palmiro|Palmiro]] | [[User talk:Palmiro|Talk]] 21:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Well done, Palmiro. This is what I had in mind. I'd agree with a change in the name of template to Template:Irish Republican Army. I'd also support the dropping of the Irish flag.--[[User:Damac|Damac]] 21:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

It's still too big.  I don't see any case for the list in the '''See Also''' box.  It grew stupidly big because it existed in the first place, because who should say what should be in and what should be out.  So I've squared the circle by making it a simple link to the category [[:Category:Irish Republican Army]].  If anyone wants to see a list of self-proclaimed Heroes of the Revolution, this says where to look. Neat, tidy, no debate about qualifications for entry. --[[User:Red King|Red King]] 22:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
:Well - eh, it ''wasn't'' a random list anymore. It included articles that were generally relevant to an understanding of the IRA/IRAs. The article "List of IRAs" is clearly relevant. If you want to just link to the category, there's no need to have the third section at all, as any articles the template goes on should be in the category anyway. [[User:Palmiro|Palmiro]]
::Well I'd certainly support removing the "See Also", because it is an open invitation to all and sundry to add their favourite hobby horse and have it appear on every page.  But at least recording the <nowiki> [[:category:<category>]] </nowiki> explicitly draws attention to the existence of the major category in a way that the list at the bottom doesn't (especially if it is deeply nested category).  It also makes it more unwlecoming to the addition of hobby horses. --[[User:Red King|Red King]] 14:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

== Óglaigh na hÉireann (new group) ==

I added [[Óglaigh na hÉireann (Continuity IRA splinter group)]] to this template, thinking that it should be included in the list. Since it seems that the CIRA no longer considers members of ONH members of CIRA (apparently the IMC thinks that CIRA has tried to exile ONH members), and has undertaken several of it's own actions, I think it should be listed distinctly.

The group was removed, for the reasoning: ''"group does not use name "Irish Republican Army"'' . That's true. But I think that the template should include this group, and probably the [[INLA]] as well. The IMC has included both as threats in its reports, both are descended from IRA organizations, do basically the same thing with quite similar purpose, and it just seems to fit. The other option seems to be creating an entirely new template, which lists the new groups as well as the old, creating a hell of a lot of overlap. What do y'all think? [[User:Johnathan Swift|Erin Go Bragh]] 21:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

:And I suppose while we're at it, I'd suggest adding the [[Irish Volunteers]], being the predecessor to the IRA. <b><span style="color:#006600">[[User:Johnathan_Swift|Erin Go Bragh]]</span></b> 22:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

::This reaffirms the point I made a few months ago about favourite hobby-horses being added.  ''Óglaigh na hÉireann'' is formally the [[Irish Defence Forces]], not some lunatic fringe of a lunatic fringe.  The Irish Volunteers did not engage in armed sturggle.  Many (the majority?) jointed up in the Irish Regiments of the British Army in 1914.  Let's be careful of historical revisionism!  I '''oppose''' both these proposals.  --[[User:Red King|Red King]] 20:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
:::Regardless of arguing over the merit of the various organizations referring to themselves as the Óglaigh na hÉireann, the fact remains that these various armed Irish nationalist paramilitary organizations exist, and are interrelated. We have articles on them, and I think that templates like this serve to better facilitate a reader's journey through multiple interrelated articles. 

:::Why, I must ask, does the CIRA or RIRA have any more claim to being represented here than the INLA, or the ONH? Simply because they use the letters IRA? The Irish Volunteers did not use the name IRA for the first few years, yet they were an armed republican paramilitary, who participated in, and made up the vast majority of soliders participating in, the [[Easter Rising]]. Yes, some did go and join the British army, but not the majority. <b>[[User:Johnathan_Swift|<span style="color:#006600">Erin Go Bragh</span>]]</b>[[User talk:Johnathan Swift|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

== Expanded Template ==

I've created an expanded template, that's more up to date with Template customs (uses the standard navbox template) an is a more complete navigational box for Armed Irish Republican groups. It can be found for now at '''{{[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Irish Republican Army/Preparation/Template:IRAs]]}}'''. I'd like to replace the current '''{{[[Template:IRAs]]}}''' with it, or with a template with similar comprehensiveness. <b>[[User:Johnathan_Swift|<span style="color:#006600">Erin Go Bragh</span>]]</b>[[User talk:Johnathan Swift|<sup>talk</sup>]] 09:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
:[[Irish People's Liberation Organisation]] are missing, and ideally I'd put the Provos before the INLA to maintain the chronology. Once that's taken care of, I'm in favour. <font face="Verdana">[[User:One Night In Hackney|<span style="color:#009">One Night In Hackney</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:One Night In Hackney|303]]''</sub></font> 09:50, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
::I've done both of those now, and added the [[Society of United Irishmen]] to boot. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Erin Go Bragh|Erin Go Bragh]] ([[User talk:Erin Go Bragh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Erin Go Bragh|contribs]]) 20:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:::I'm looking at the [[United Irish Uprising]] in [[Newfoundland]], ad thinking it's too insignificant? I dunno how we'd put it in there. Unless the whole thing is redone. <b>[[User:Johnathan_Swift|<span style="color:#006600">Erin Go Bragh</span>]]</b>[[User talk:Johnathan Swift|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
::::I'm not convinced that needs to go on there.  I re-organised the template slightly, as organisations split over two lines looked messy and the template is the same size if they are on one line each anyway. <font face="Verdana">[[User:One Night In Hackney|<span style="color:#009">One Night In Hackney</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:One Night In Hackney|303]]''</sub></font> 20:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
{{Wikipedia:WikiProject Irish Republican Army/Preparation/Template:IRAs}}