View source for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francis Lucille

===[[Francis Lucille]]===
{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|B}}

:{{la|Francis Lucille}} (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:Francis Lucille|wpReason={{urlencode: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francis Lucille]]}}&action=delete}} delete]</span>) – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francis Lucille|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2009 March 15#{{anchorencode:Francis Lucille}}|View log]])</noinclude>
'''Delete''': Questionable notability, cited published books appear to be "self-published" with cited publication list being a "web store" on Francis Lucille's website. The article is poorly sourced and feels like pure advertisement. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] ([[User talk:Plastikspork|talk]]) 01:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}This is not an advertisement.
I will gather the required details and update the website. Please do not delete the article.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) 01:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

This is not promotional:
I have removed the link to the publications link --I have only provided the link as convenience to the readers.

I have tried to provide to the audience at large genuine information that I have encountered. 

I will remove the ,sections that are marked with citation needed currently.
Once I get the citations I will add the section accordingly.

1)
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/images/uploaded/file/Sobottka.pdf 
A course in consciousness, by, Stanley Sobottka ,Emeritus Professor of Physics,University of Virginia ] ''http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness]
Has given the reference to his website www.francislucille.com
This is not promotional.
Please see the references to his work from other two sites.

2) Dennis Waite. The Book of One: The Spiritual Path of Advaita, ISBN 1903816416
http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/thoughts_lucille.htm

I will remove the section  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) 05:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{collapse bottom}}
*'''Reserving judgement, for now''': My gut feeling is not favourable but I will wait to see if referencing and tone can be improved. The first thing I find in Google is that he is not the most famous person with "Francis Lucille" as part of their name. This makes searching harder. I am not impressed by the Stanley Sobottka endorsement (it is just a personal endorsement in a self-published essay) but there is a book with an fairly long interview with him here [http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jBLUI0oS794C&pg=PA29&dq=%22Francis+Lucille%22#PPA30,M1]. The introductory bio can be used to verify parts of the bio here. I don't have access to the other book to check that although an Amazon search confirms that it does cover Lucille. It seems to me that the subject is borderline for notability. I don't think that everybody who gets a namecheck in a few minor books on spirituality should automatically be considered notable. Maybe we need a bit more. --[[User:DanielRigal|DanielRigal]] ([[User talk:DanielRigal|talk]]) 10:07, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}Thanks So much every one for taking time to give the references.I appreciate all your effort and references.
I will try to gather more information as possible.
Please give me some more time.
--Some of the most precious diamonds are very rare ....I understand the constaint and spirit of wikipedia too,to verify the information available.

1)
The Tao of Now: Daily Wisdom from Mystics, Sages, Poets, and Saints,Page 102
Josh Baran  Publisher "Hamptom roads publisher company inc." ISBN 978-157174-8842
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/157174584X/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S03R&checkSum=QkanAKkb77g%252BHyvpamAU%252FCZCYn6vizkZofEMI9NsVuI%253D#reader-page]

2)
Back to the Truth: 5000 years of Advaita by Dennis Waite (Paperback - Feb 25, 2007)
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1905047614/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S016&checkSum=QkanAKkb77g5QsU6UPo0%252BOsgwC%252BtXkPKW5AYwV0AsPg%253D#reader-page]

3) Awake in the Heartland: The Ecstasy of What Is (Paperback)
by Joan Tollifson (Author) page 96.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0955176247/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S02Z&checkSum=QkanAKkb77gdjABnfV2PsA1DGBH3vtlz%252BCrm3%252FNBt%252FE%253D#reader-page]
Quote --Everything is grace .When we say yes to what is ,we say yes to grace.

4)
Everyday Enlightenment: Seven Stories of Awakening
Sally Bongers
page 21.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0955829038/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S00Y&checkSum=QkanAKkb77jR5nYlaDCA0%252FI72fl4AnhzmG27trZEnN4%253D#reader-page]

5)
The Art of Letting Go: A Pathway to Inner Freedom (Paperback)
by Vidya Frazier (Author) 
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1577331125/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S02X&checkSum=QkanAKkb77gKyukuDkpNkSSEe5GRiTj5Iam6ZR3PEqg%253D#reader-page]

6) Vision Walk: Asking Questions, Getting Answers, Shifting Consciousness by Brandt Morgan,page 100.
ISBN-10 0976763141
ISBN-13 978-0-976763-4-7
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0976763141/qid=1236716555/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S03K&checkSum=QkanAKkb77hup0%252BRVwjQIlECPXrHLRTDBoSkZh6HAVU%253D#reader-page]

7)
I am trying my best to get more information as possible.
I have found one more reference [serach for francis]--[http://www.usefulweb.demon.co.uk/crosbypress/index.htm] 
"The line of advaita thinking that I have followed seems best represented by Francis Lucille. He studied advaita with Jean Klein who, in turn, had it from Krishnamenon [Sri Atmananda] and others in the 1950s. Francis Lucille may be the foremost exponent of the advaita tradition currently teaching. "

8)
Here are tons of audio cds of francis lucille
2)http://openlibrary.org/a/OL3829177A
Though many of them seem to be out of print.
I found one --http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1882874811/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

8)The Bhagavad Gita (The divine conversations)
Alan Jacobs ;page 3.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1903816513/qid=1236718229/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S00M&checkSum=NdfvRYzSBkmfIZWefbsDzUOXnpTGTg2DmCB8Btt%252FsCY%253D#reader-page]

9)
Being Home: Returning to the Place We've Never Left by Thomas H Beyer (Paperback - Mar 1, 2007)
ISBN-10-595-42465-1  ; 
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0595424651/qid=1236718229/ref=sib_books_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=%26%2334%3BFrancis%20Lucille%26%2334%3B&p=S008&checkSum=NdfvRYzSBklkEmOS6DsTFZoJdU90TSaXX00%252FcPLmYZM%253D#reader-page]


[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 20:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
I have re-written the entire section. based on the book you have suggested.
I will slowly add each section.it is difficult to do it in one go.
let me know if the tone and content is fine.

Just my observations on your comments.
>The first thing I find in Google is that he is not the most famous person with "Francis Lucille" as part of their name.

I agree ;but the topic that I am editing is related to spirituality.where the greatest are silent about their own works.
and their works and contributions are realized much later.
Few points:
Just a search on amazon shows --that there are at least 30 books which quote the present author. In spite of it ...I am finding hard time finding self-published book by Francis ,which confirms ---In matters related to spirituality --The most powerful are very silent and this precisely why I why I am trying my best to save this article.

Please feel free to modify the article ...I have quoted tons of books in the external links sections.

Thanks
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 22:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Here is another reason to keep the article.
Please refer to :http://www.ramana-maharshi.org.uk/
in Advaita vedanta ---"Ramana Maharshi"  ;Please refer to the publications in Journal...a '''very reputed journal'''.
"PUBLICATIONS
The Journal, "SELF ENQUIRY", which was published two - four times each year by the Ramana Maharshi Foundation UK between 1993 and March 2004, has now ceased publication. Contributors included Robert Adams, Ramesh Balsekar, Douglas Harding, Catherine Ingram, '''Francis Lucille''' and David Frawley, along with others among our own members."
This is not a name sake magazine.it is a journal.

Sprituality is '''very differnt''' from "commercial and celebrity" related articles.where more notable --are famous.
Here the greatest are very silent.

so please dont delete the article.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) 18:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

here is one more reason:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Klein
References "Francis Lucille"
"He left an important legacy which sometimes refer teachers contemporaries who were his disciples, including Éric Baret, '''Francis Lucille''', Jean-Marc Mantel"
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 00:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

One more reference:
Reference:
Greg Goode, Ph.D., is '''editor of the Nondualism''' and Western Philosophers page of Nonduality Salon. Selections from his writings appear on his webpage, No Presence, No Absence.
he quotes ..... Francis Lucille, a beloved teacher....
http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0013.htm

Another reason why the article should not be deleted.
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 01:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

One more reason:
Jean Klein [[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Klein]] is considered one of the '''most eloquent masters''' of Advaita Vedanta of the twentieth century century.  Francis Lucille  is the prominent disciple among them..others include Éric Baret and Jean-Marc Mantel.
That is another reason ...that I have to keep this floating.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) 08:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{collapse bottom}}
I have verified on this website and everything seems authentic.
[[User:Chebard|Chebard]] ([[User talk:Chebard|talk]]) 17:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)<small>— [[User:Chebard|Chebard]] ([[User talk:Chebard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Chebard|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if:  | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}</small>.
<hr style="width:50%;"/>
:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.'''</span><br/><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 00:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist -->
*I'm gonna go with '''delete''' here.  From what I see, the whole argument in favor of keeping the article relies on that, within his circles, [[WP:ILIKEIT|people really like the guy]], which for Wikipedia, doesn't really fit into the guidelines, unfortunately.  As to the pointer that the greatest of spiritualists remain silent, I wholeheartedly agree to this assessment, but the corrolary to this is that the greatest will be made well known by the populace.  I see blog entries, I see an interview, and I see some books mentioning him by name - but as I understand [[WP:N]], that doesn't really fall within the guides.  I opine, then, that we need to find more on Mr. Lucille, most certainly, and suggest that the article would be deleted - but as usual, I have no prejudice to a recreation if we have material on him found after the deletion.  In the event of deletion, I suggest userfying the article for [[User:Amarhindustani]]. --[[User:Dennisthe2|'''<span style="background:Orange;color:Black">Dennis The Tiger</span>''']]  ([[User talk:Dennisthe2|Rawr]] and [[Special:Contributions/Dennisthe2|stuff]]) 00:15, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
*Reluctantly, '''delete'''.  This is annoying because I think it's a good faith article about a subject a new editor genuinely feels should be covered here, and I'm conscious of how [[WP:BITE|bitey]] the AfD process can be. — The article's falling foul of various rules designed to prevent Wikipedia being used as a promotional tool (see [[WP:N|notability]] in particular).  Those rules oblige us to look for significant coverage in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]], and they force us to delete if the coverage isn't there.  I agree that there's significant coverage but I don't agree that the sources are over the threshold.  I'm sorry, Amarhindustani, because I can see you've put a lot into this.—[[User:S Marshall|<font face="Verdana" color="Black">'''S Marshall'''</font>]] [[User talk:S Marshall|<font color="black" size="0.5"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/S Marshall|<font color="Black" size="0.5"><sub>Cont</sub></font>]] 01:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}* Retain :
The above recommendation have not taken all the points menioned before arriving at conclusion.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) 07:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
This article has :
Published interview with francis lucille in a book along with spiritual luminaries <ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle</ref>
This is very notable book! 

1)Lynn Marie Lumiere, John Lumiere-Wins.The Awakening West: Conversations with Today's New Western Spiritual Leaders,ISBN 9781592330102 <ref>http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jBLUI0oS794C&pg=PA29&dq=%22Francis+Lucille%22#PPA5,M1</ref>

2)in Advaita vedanta ---"Ramana Maharshi"  ;Please refer to the publications in Journal...a '''very reputed journal'''.
"PUBLICATIONS
The Journal, "SELF ENQUIRY", which was published two - four times each year by the Ramana Maharshi Foundation UK between 1993 and March 2004. Contributors included Robert Adams, Ramesh Balsekar, Douglas Harding, Catherine Ingram, '''Francis Lucille''' and David Frawley, along with others among our own members."
This is not a name sake magazine.'''it is a journal'''.

3)Jean Klein [[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Klein]] is considered one of the '''most eloquent masters''' of Advaita Vedanta of the twentieth century century.  Francis Lucille  is the prominent disciple among them..others include Éric Baret and Jean-Marc Mantel.
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 07:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''':  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/California|list of California-related deletion discussions]]. </small><small>—[[Special:Contributions/94.196.76.190|94.196.76.190]] ([[User talk:94.196.76.190|talk]]) 08:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)</small>
*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''':  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/France|list of France-related deletion discussions]]. </small><small>—[[Special:Contributions/94.196.76.190|94.196.76.190]] ([[User talk:94.196.76.190|talk]]) 08:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)</small>
*'''Comment''' - Amarhindustani, please, if you have additional information pointing to the notability of the article, add it to the article and note in here that you've added material. If this is notable, we need to know on what grounds it holds up to the [[WP:N|notability guidelines]] here on Wikipedia.  Please, enlighten us? --[[User:Dennisthe2|'''<span style="background:Orange;color:Black">Dennis The Tiger</span>''']]  ([[User talk:Dennisthe2|Rawr]] and [[Special:Contributions/Dennisthe2|stuff]]) 15:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Dennis,
"If a topic has received significant coverage in '''reliable sources that are independent''' of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article."
I have strong points to support the above statement.
could you let me know when you are planning to delete the article?.
I just need some more time.
in the mean time ,I am hoping some one else might pitch in to support me too.
Thank you for the time and feedback. I appreciate it.
Thanks
[[Special:Contributions/75.80.152.211|75.80.152.211]] ([[User talk:75.80.152.211|talk]]) 16:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 16:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
::Deletion debates usually stay open for five days and the closing admin decides on the basis of the arguments put forward in the debate.  However, this one has been relisted because few people took part.  So you have another five days to make improvements. [[User:Spinningspark|<font style="background:#FFF090;color:#00C000">'''Sp<font style="background:#FFF0A0;color:#80C000">in<font style="color:#C08000">ni</font></font><font style="color:#C00000">ng</font></font><font style="color:#2820F0">Spark'''</font>]] 19:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Weak keep''' there is non-trivial coverage in multiple published books (many added since nomination) so I think this meets notability.  However, the prose of the article is truly awful for a Wikipedia article.  If this was written in a more detached, factual style it would probably never have been nominated here in the first place. [[User:Spinningspark|<font style="background:#FFF090;color:#00C000">'''Sp<font style="background:#FFF0A0;color:#80C000">in<font style="color:#C08000">ni</font></font><font style="color:#C00000">ng</font></font><font style="color:#2820F0">Spark'''</font>]] 19:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
*I agree. I vote '''Weak keep''' as well. We need to get more editors on it. It is clear that the current editor is trying to do the right thing but he needs help. He missed out on the standard Welcome message, so I have given him that, which should help a bit. Even so, we need somebody who understands this stuff (which I don't) and who is experienced with editing to work through the article issues and sort them out. Ideally, we want a shorter, more neutral and easier to understand article. I have put it in Wikiprojects Biography and Spirituality. With luck that will attract interest. --[[User:DanielRigal|DanielRigal]] ([[User talk:DanielRigal|talk]]) 20:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' There seem to be third party sources, but no ''reliable'' sources. They all look like writings from other new age gurus, not from neutral sources.--[[User:Sloane|Sloane]] ([[User talk:Sloane|talk]]) 16:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
***Yes. It is problematic dealing with subjects like spirituality and astrology because they are essentially just made up stuff with no canonical sources defining what is notable and what is fringe. The trouble is that some of it is clearly notable, despite being made up, due to its long history of being seriously believed in by so many people. I got as far as verifying that the book with the interview was not self-published and that the publisher is not exclusively a publisher of spiritualist books. That is what made it a weak keep for me. In my heart, I would love to see the back of all this stuff but I know that it isn't for me to impose my POV on Wikipedia. Maybe I am overcompensating here?  --[[User:DanielRigal|DanielRigal]] ([[User talk:DanielRigal|talk]]) 00:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. I've taken a quick pass at cleaning it a bit. To the main author I'm unclear if [[wp:notability]] has been met. Unlikely a credible source will state ''Lucille is the leading teacher of _____ in California'' but '''something''' that asserts why we should have an article on the subject needs to be pointed out quickly and in the [[WP:lede]]. Barring that we may be able to sweep a bunch of less notable bits together if they are widely quoted or something. [[User_talk:Benjiboi| -- <u style="font-size:14px; font-family: cursive;color:#8000FF">Banj<font color="#FF4400">e</font></u><u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b<font color="#CC0000">oi</font></u>]] 22:42, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Just a note to the closer to say that I've gone through the article again after these edits were made, and I still feel we're short on [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] for the moment.—[[User:S Marshall|<font face="Verdana" color="Black">'''S Marshall'''</font>]] [[User talk:S Marshall|<font color="black" size="0.5"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/S Marshall|<font color="Black" size="0.5"><sub>Cont</sub></font>]] 00:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}Response to the comment made above:
>"I agree that there's significant coverage but I don't agree that the sources are over the threshold"

Additional Interview from a "Third party source" Neutral publisher:
1.The Below book has interviews from worlds most influential spiritual teachers. 
2.Please refer to the interview -->copernican shift: Francis Lucille 

Title   The teachers of one : living advaita, conversations on the nature of non-duality / Paula Marvelly. Other Title   Living advaita, conversations on the nature of non-duality Author   Marvelly, Paula. Publisher   London : Watkins Pub., 2002. Description   xiii, 281 p. : ports. ; 24 cm. Notes   Includes bibliographical references (p. 279-281). Summary   A collection of interviews with the '''world's most influential spiritual teachers''' as well as less well-known teachers on the nature of non-duality. Contents   All my troubles seem so far away: Satyananda -- The dharma bum: Wayne Liquorman -- The smell of burnt almonds Pratima -- The secret garden: Tony Parsons -- '''Copernican shift: Francis Lucille''' -- The house of God: Vijai Shankar -- A course in miracles: Mira -- Magical mystery tour: Bharat -- All you need is love: Catherine Ingram -- Love me tender: John de Ruiter -- Amazing grace: Pamela Wilson -- No guru, no method, no teacher: Isaac Shapiro -- The beat generation: Vartman -- San Francisco renaissance: Gangaji -- The godfather of soul: Ramesh Balsekar -- Rendezvous with Ramana -- Who am I?: Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 07:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
*'''Delete''': The article doesn't include a single reliable source. Totally fails [[WP:NOTE]].--[[User:Sloane|Sloane]] ([[User talk:Sloane|talk]]) 16:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}*'''Comment'''
There are three very extensive interviews with Francis Lucille in books published by publications of repute [These are not just references, but full length articles].
In response to the above observation ---The article doesn't include a single reliable source. Totally fails 

Please consider the following facts.
Jan Kersschot. THIS IS IT. Watkins ISBN: 1-84293-093-1 “Perfume of Peace” [Full length interview with Fracis Lucille].

Marvelly, Paula (2002). The teachers of Living  one. London: Watkins<ref>http://www.dbponline.co.uk/book_preview.asp?b_id=70</ref>. pp. 61-71. ISBN 1842930281.

Watkins Publishing<ref>http://www.dbponline.co.uk/book_preview.asp?b_id=70</ref> (est.1894) 
….continues in its long tradition of unillustrated publishing, specialising in the spiritual traditions of the world, ancient wisdom, divination and philosophy.
<ref>http://www.dbponline.co.uk/WebFiles/watkins_catalogue.pdf</ref>
“There are many engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, hence it is reliable .”

This is a publishing house of repute established in 1894.

•	The Interview is published in reputable peer-reviewed sources and/or by well-regarded academic presses.
•	The Article is signed.
•	There is an extensive interview in this book with Francis Lucille.
•	The books have interviews with teachers :Gangaji[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangaji] ,
Ramesh Balsekar[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesh_Balsekar] ,
Eckhart tolle [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle] etc
Who are already on wikipedia. '''So it puts him in equal footing'''.

His books are published in France ,German ,Spanish etc.
Books published in other languages:
One of the book is published by ,publisher of repute -- http://www.originel-accarias.com
You can find that this publisher has published books on other authors of repute as well ,like Dalai lama etc
04:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amarhindustani|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 04:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' on "equal footing" argument: See [[Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Individual merit]]. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] ([[User talk:Plastikspork|talk]]) 19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Please see interviews and articles in '''Editorial reviewed Journal'''.<ref>http://www.ennea.org/what.html</ref>
--- Francis Lucille.
The relevance of what he speaks in other disciplines.
Lucille, Francis, A Conversation with Jack Labanauskas, Part 1, Jan. ’02, Issue #79, pg. 1
<ref>http://www.ennea.org/articles/EM_author_index.pdf</ref>

Lucille, Francis (interview) – Labanauskas & McKean Jan. ‘02, Feb. ’02, Nov. ‘02
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 06:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
*'''Weak keep'''. The article, as is, is poorly written in tone and presentation. I will assume good faith though that the subject is notable as a teacher and/or author. All the sourcing and good faith efforts need to continue however to 1. Rewrite the article neutrally and 2. Convert all sources to become inline [[wp:cite|citations]] so others can see clearly what is stated about this person and that it is verifiable. To Amarhindustani, you might try a little exercise where you write the article as if this person had recently died. Neutrally you would overview their life and accomplishments. Once you have that start migrating the current material together with it and add sourcing. Even if the article survives for now it will likely come back here if exponential improvements aren't made. [[User_talk:Benjiboi| -- <u style="font-size:14px; font-family: cursive;color:#8000FF">Banj<font color="#FF4400">e</font></u><u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b<font color="#CC0000">oi</font></u>]] 09:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Delete with fire'''  Too much link-spam, self-published sources, dubious sources from cult websites, etc...  Lacking any meaningful content or reliable source to establish notability. [[User:Jwray|Jwray]] ([[User talk:Jwray|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 20:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*'''Clear delete''' there's nothing here that even aspires to notability per our GNG and specific guidelines at [[WP:BIO]]. The "sources" are all self-interested. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] ([[User talk:Eusebeus|talk]]) 23:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
*<small>'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Living people|list of Living people-related deletion discussions]]. --[[User:Erwin85Bot|Erwin85Bot]] ([[User talk:Erwin85Bot|talk]]) 00:02, 18 March 2009 (UTC)</small>

*'''Keep'''. Categories: Spiritual teachers and Advaitin philosophers. Could some one move this to the to the categories of Spritiual Teachers.
This is not much about the person but about the teaching. Please see other teachers who are already there in WIKI.
[[Adyashanti]],[[Ramana_Maharshi|Ramana Maharshi]],[[Ramesh_Balsekar|Ramesh Balsekar]] etc.  
The request is because --The yardstick used to evalutate the notablity etc will be very different in each category.
For example --the publishers in each category and number and type of people accesing this information will vary.
We cannot expect the same viewership and publishers reach ,and commercial value of article written for a baseball game and fencing.
Please don't compare apples to oranges.Some of the comments above by you are very valuable .
sprituality is not very commercial. so finding sources and adding them takes time. in addition to that --some one is this category.
may add some very valuable points and can be of great help. 
Thank you for all the help and suggestions.
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 03:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}*'''Comment'''
Conference given at Non profit orginization in 2003 .
<ref name=IDW>{{cite web|url = http://www.innerdirections.org/catalog/journal/Spring-Summer_2003.pdf| title =Inner Directions [Non Profit Organization] Conference,2003 |page = pp 44}}</ref>
Other speakers in the conference are all very respected in their respective fields.
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 05:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' 
Every time ,I edit and discover something new . I was starting off with the word --Keep. Please count my vote as only one. where ever you find my login.
[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 05:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
**'''Comment''' - best not to keep saying ''keep'', just append ''comment''s.  Keeps the discussion from being to obfuscated. --[[User:Dennisthe2|'''<span style="background:Orange;color:Black">Dennis The Tiger</span>''']]  ([[User talk:Dennisthe2|Rawr]] and [[Special:Contributions/Dennisthe2|stuff]]) 18:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' 
I agree with [[User:Jwray|Jwray]] a lot of the sources seem self published none of the links seem to establish notability definitely not enough to have a article. [[User:Kyle1278|Kyle1278]] ([[User talk:Kyle1278|talk]]) 17:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Does not seem to have been the subject of multiple, independant articles per [[WP:BIO]].[[User:TheRingess|TheRingess]] ([[User talk:TheRingess|talk]]) 18:33, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Fails [[WP:BIO]]. The cited sources are non-RS websites or books published by minor presses. The subject's own books are themselves non-notable; a [[worldcat]] search shows that ''[http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/298502142&referer=brief_results Eternity Now]'' is carried by only 1 library (in Singapore), while his other English books are not carried by any library! Typically even obscure books can be found in 10-100s of libraries; consider for example [[Rod Dreher]], whose bio was up for a recent contentious AFD; his book ''Crunchy Cons'' is found in 3077 libraries listed on Worldcat. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}*'''Comment''' : you are comparing the number of books and viewership of two different categories.
Please compare the same among the same category --advaita or nodualily. 
{{collapse bottom}}
*'''Delete'''. Notable per [[WP:BIO]]. [[User:Doctorfluffy|Doctorfluffy]] <small>([[User talk:Doctorfluffy|robe and wizard hat]])</small> 20:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - notability has not been established and referenced sources are of questionable merit[[User:Jlrobertson|Jlrobertson]] ([[User talk:Jlrobertson|talk]]) 22:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Amarhindustani's comments}}*'''Comment''' Could you please be more generic ..which of the sources are questionable and what is your criteria for your conclusion.


*'''Comment'''
Thank you for the feedback. Some of the comments above have been very helpful.but some just are too generic and indicate lack of knowledge of the subject matter ,in that case my humble request to you --is to add comment but not vote .
I would appreciate ,if you can be more specific.

1.About Notability and Sources:
Please don't compare Apples to oranges.

Please compare the article with any of the existing topics under similar category --
[[Spiritual teachers]] | [[Advaitin philosophers]] | [[New Thought writers]] | [[New Thought movement]] | [[Vedanta]]
There are not as many Readers/viewers[compared to viewership of romantic novel orviewership of baseball game] for this subject and hence you will not find big publishers.

This Author’s books/references are published   by Major publishers world wide ,i.e. Watkins [established 1894] Publishing; 
Publisher: Kamphausen[German] who also has published books of [[Eckhart Tolle]] etc,
The books have been published in 4 languages --German ,French ,Spanish and English.

For example --please find the references of [[Adyashanti]] or any other speaker on similar subject.
you will not find big publishers as you expect for Fictional Books. 
Note as per Wiki --"Notable in the sense of being "famous", or "popular"—although not irrelevant—is '''secondary'''".

#He has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable and  intellectually independent.
#Some of the sources cited involve evaluation of the original information.
#People independent of the subject itself have actually considered the subject notable enough that they have written and published .
#non-trivial works focus upon this subject.
#It is non trivial --- you have the subject in detail.
#A credible independent biography of a person that covers that person's life in detail is non-trivial.
#The person is regarded as an important figure and is widely cited by their peers or successors.

If you could extend the dead line for deleting the article ..I hope some more will be able to give ,constructive comments.
Please give me few more days.

[[User:Amarhindustani|Amarhindustani]] ([[User talk:Amarhindustani|talk]]) 23:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
'''Weak keep'''. i am not an expert, but to my view the article is kind of new. i am not aware of how things work here, but i've seen much-flawed articles lasting for years before they were improved. either delete the article now and wait for the editors to publish it back when it is more suitable for wikipedia, or let them more time. however, deleting it now might prevent the editors working together in its "unflawing." this is just my philosophy, and it may well not be endorsed by wikipedia, but at least you've got my two cents about it. [[User:Twipley|Twipley]] ([[User talk:Twipley|talk]]) 00:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

'''Keep''' . The publishers are reputed.and the Journals are reputed and reviewed by editorial boards.  As noted above, Francis' work has been published in many languages and is cited in many books and articles.  It is an important component of the contemporary literature on advaita.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Advaitastudent|Advaitastudent]] ([[User talk:Advaitastudent|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Advaitastudent|contribs]]) 00:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— [[User:Advaitastudent|Advaitastudent]] ([[User talk:Advaitastudent|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Advaitastudent|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if:  | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}</small>

'''Keep''' . Dear Pundits, The publishers are reputed.and the Journals are reputed and reviewed by editorial

Francis Lucille speaks about "The Truth", "The Reality", "Our True Nature" . His teaching  is associated with Non-duality,
the common ground of Advaita Vedanta, Ch'an Buddhism, Zen,Taoism and Sufism, the same common ground which is at the core of the message from Sages, Saints, Jagadgurus and other prominent Advaita Teachers.The publishers are reputed and the Journals are reputed and reviewed by editorial. 

Please don't delete it, but humbly request The Pundits to point out the 'Blips' and the 'Gaps', so the  Truth Seekers can come together to fix it. Thank you.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patyogi|Patyogi]] ([[User talk:Patyogi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Patyogi|contribs]]) 01:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— [[User:Patyogi|Patyogi]] ([[User talk:Patyogi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Patyogi|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if:  | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}</small>
'''Keep'''. Seems notable enough to me, to warrant a hold, and allow the article to grow! --[[User:Ekabhishek|Ekabhishek]] ([[User talk:Ekabhishek|talk]]) 02:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)