View source for Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 March 21

<noinclude><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
{| width = "100%"
|-
! width="50%" align="left"  | <font color="gray">&lt;</font> [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 March 20|March 20]]
! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 March 22|March 22]] <font color="gray">&gt;</font>
|}</div></noinclude>
===March 21===
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed|{{PAGENAME}}]]

<!-- Add new listings at the top of the list with the following formats for deletion and merging respectively:

{{subst:Tfd2|TemplateName|text=Your rationale for nominating the template. ~~~~}}
{{subst:Tfm2|TemplateName|OtherTemplate|text=Your rationale for nominating the template. ~~~~}}

-->
==== [[Template:Jason's Bracketology]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Jason's Bracketology}}
Template is unused and is not useful to Wikipedia. [[User:NotAnonymous0|NotAnonymous0]] ([[User talk:NotAnonymous0|talk]]) 23:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
==== [[Template:ASM Oran]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|ASM Oran}}
Unused template, redundant to simple wiki markup. [[User:RL0919|RL0919]] ([[User talk:RL0919|talk]]) 23:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
==== [[Template:RAF lists]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|RAF lists}}
One of a number of similar RAF templates which are cluttering the [[Royal Air Force]] article.  This template is visually similar to the ''RAF'' template and with the exception of [[List of RAF Regiment squadrons]] link, all the links point or redirect to articles in the ''Royal Air Force'' template.  (The RAF Regiment might usefully have its own template). [[User:Greenshed|Greenshed]] ([[User talk:Greenshed|talk]]) 16:51, 21 March 2010 (UTC) 

==== [[Template:N&]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|N&}}
As per [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(icons)#Remember_accessibility_for_the_visually_impaired]]. Doesn't render a readable character [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 16:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
:The page you linked to only discusses how to alter images to comply with the policy. However, the template doesn't use images, it uses Unicode characters. Can't screen readers handle Unicode automatically? How can I fix it? <span style="border:1px solid #f57900;padding:1px;">[[User:SharkD|<span style="color:#8f5902;padding-left:1px;">SharkD</span>]] [[User_talk:SharkD|<span style="color:#fff;background:#fcaf3e;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 21:56, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
::I added an HTML TITLE attribute to the template. It should comply with the policy now. <span style="border:1px solid #f57900;padding:1px;">[[User:SharkD|<span style="color:#8f5902;padding-left:1px;">SharkD</span>]] [[User_talk:SharkD|<span style="color:#fff;background:#fcaf3e;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 22:02, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I don't understand what the problem is, it's not used in articlespace, and a simple alt-text solves the accessibility issue. I also don't see why this is named in such a way as to be highly unclear as to what it is.  [[Special:Contributions/76.66.194.4|76.66.194.4]] ([[User talk:76.66.194.4|talk]]) 04:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I'd also prefer it if issues like these were taken up with the screenreader software producers, instead of with Wikipedia. We can't go adding title spans around all the unicode characters we use in Wikipedia. It's ridiculous and honestly, I'm even somewhat offended. Many people are trying to make the website as accessible as possible to as many people as possible (for users who want to copy text for instance), and unfortunately some folks aren't keeping up. The screenreader software producers sitting on their asses making a lot of money off of disabled people by doing a half-ass job, should not EVER be a reason to nominate a template for deletion. The title attribute is an acceptable solution for me to make this more accessible. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 00:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:*I agree. Unicode is a sufficiently structured/encapsulateed data type that it can be easily handled by screen readers. The ambiguity regarding what the content is exactly does not exist for Unicode like it does for images. <span style="border:1px solid #f57900;padding:1px;">[[User:SharkD|<span style="color:#8f5902;padding-left:1px;">SharkD</span>]] [[User_talk:SharkD|<span style="color:#fff;background:#fcaf3e;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 09:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::Well unfortunately the screen readers can't make sense of these type of characters and the only thing we have control is our own project content and as such we should make it accessible to as many people as possible [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 22:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
*I have redited the alt text to say "Red X" which is what the template is of. This template is used a lot on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources. <font size="2" face="Impact">~ [[User:RTG|R]].[[User_Talk:RTG|T]].[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</font> 00:48, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Y&]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Y&}}
As per [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(icons)#Remember_accessibility_for_the_visually_impaired]]. Doesn't render a readable character [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 16:47, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
:Same as above. <span style="border:1px solid #f57900;padding:1px;">[[User:SharkD|<span style="color:#8f5902;padding-left:1px;">SharkD</span>]] [[User_talk:SharkD|<span style="color:#fff;background:#fcaf3e;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 22:03, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I don't understand what the problem is, it's not used in articlespace, and a simple alt-text solves the accessibility issue. I also don't see why this is named in such a way as to be highly unclear as to what it is.  [[Special:Contributions/76.66.194.4|76.66.194.4]] ([[User talk:76.66.194.4|talk]]) 04:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' [http://www.standards-schmandards.com/projects/fangs/ FANGS] still shows unreadable, it's not an image so alt-text can't be used and shouldn't our visual impaired editors be able to understand talk pages? [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' considering the way that talk page discussions go, I find it very hard to see how you would get editors to rewrite their draft suggestions in ways to make them accessible if they themselves do not use screenreader software, unless you want to start a wikiproject for solely going through talk pages and redacting people's comments to make them accessible. [[Special:Contributions/76.66.194.32|76.66.194.32]] ([[User talk:76.66.194.32|talk]]) 04:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
***This is about making the check marks accessible, peoples comments in general will have to wait [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 10:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
**Ironically, I do not see any ALT text being used on the images on the FANGS site. <span style="border:1px solid #f57900;padding:1px;">[[User:SharkD|<span style="color:#8f5902;padding-left:1px;">SharkD</span>]] [[User_talk:SharkD|<span style="color:#fff;background:#fcaf3e;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 09:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
***It's not Ironic, they hide the purely decoration images like they should [[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] ([[User talk:Gnevin|talk]]) 10:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
*I have redited the alt text to say "Green tick" which is more descriptive of what the template is. It is used a lot on pages such as [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources]]. <font size="2" face="Impact">~ [[User:RTG|R]].[[User_Talk:RTG|T]].[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</font> 00:49, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Plovdiv]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Plovdiv}}
Empty navbox since November 2008. No content to fill it. — <span style="border:dashed #666;border-width:1px 0 0 1px">[[User:This, that and the other|This, that]]</span>, and <span style="border:dashed #666;border-width:0 1px 1px 0">[[User talk:This, that and the other|the other<small> (talk)</small>]]</span> 10:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Did you think that maybe it would be best to ask the creator why it hasn't been filled first? It is an ongoing process to cover the Bulgarian municipalities in detail....

'''Speedy Keep''' The template contains content and is useful. [[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span>     <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 11:23, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Altwelcome]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Altwelcome}}
Unused user welcome template, user [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tohd8BohaithuGh1&diff=prev&oldid=320304627 retired] the day they finished this template. Furthermore, there are more than enough alternatives in {{Cl|Welcome templates}}, this template adds nothing special to them. [[User:The Evil IP address|The Evil IP address]] ([[User talk:The Evil IP address|talk]]) 09:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' since welcome templates are subst templates, how would you know it was unused? [[Special:Contributions/76.66.194.4|76.66.194.4]] ([[User talk:76.66.194.4|talk]]) 04:11, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Unused and never substed. I had the AWB database scanner fired up, so I searched for <code><nowiki>==<font color="red">Welcome!</font>==</nowiki></code> — the only result was this template. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;'''''</span><sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 12:50, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Never used. <span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>, his otters and a clue-bat • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Many otters]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|One bat]] • [[User:TenPoundHammer|One hammer]])</sup> 19:53, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Livingships]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Livingships}}
A very old template being used on two articles. Per a [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships/Archive_18#Template:Livingships|discussion]] at WpShips it is felt that this template is out of line with its intended purpose and also introduces original research into the article. [[User:Brad101|Brad]] ([[User talk:Brad101|talk]]) 06:20, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I can't see that this template is serving a useful purpose, save typing a few words in an article. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 10:47, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' for misuse of template space. <span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>, his otters and a clue-bat • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Many otters]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|One bat]] • [[User:TenPoundHammer|One hammer]])</sup> 22:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Oldmfd]] ====
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section.''

The result of the discussion was '''Speedy keep''' per [[WP:SNOW]]. A one-word nomination is not going to lead to the deletion of a template that is widely used and specifically cited in the [[WP:DPR#MFD|deletion process]] guidelines. [[User:RL0919|RL0919]] ([[User talk:RL0919|talk]]) 20:01, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:{{Tfdlinks|Oldmfd}}
old [[User:R12056|R12056]] ([[User talk:R12056|talk]]) 05:18, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
:Still used. Is there an improved template you are suggesting we replace this one with? If not, then the nomination really isn't justified. — <span style="border:dashed #666;border-width:1px 0 0 1px">[[User:This, that and the other|This, that]]</span>, and <span style="border:dashed #666;border-width:0 1px 1px 0">[[User talk:This, that and the other|the other<small> (talk)</small>]]</span> 09:03, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' standard name for XfD templates. [[Special:Contributions/76.66.194.4|76.66.194.4]] ([[User talk:76.66.194.4|talk]]) 04:12, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' But it is still important. --[[User:Extra999|Extra999]] ([[User talk:Extra999|Contact <sup>me</sup>]] + [[Special:Contributions/Extra999|<sub>contribs</sub>]]) 11:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. "old"? What kind of justification is that?? -- [[User:OlEnglish|<font size="5">&oelig;</font>]][[User talk:OlEnglish|<sup>&trade;</sup>]] 12:10, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Speedy keep''' - I don't get the basis for this request, and, as stated above, that kind of justification is "old"? [[User:Connormah|Connormah]] <small>([[User talk:Connormah|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Connormah|contribs]])</small> 02:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Speedy keep'''. What is this nonsense? This is one of the [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Oldmfd|most heavily used]] templates on the project.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 19:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== [[Template:Bambi]] ====
:{{Tfdlinks|Bambi}}
Unused, would also only navigate two articles anyway. [[User:The Evil IP address|The Evil IP address]] ([[User talk:The Evil IP address|talk]]) 02:51, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
*'''Strong delete''' Textbook [[WP:NENAN]]. <span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>, his otters and a clue-bat • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Many otters]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|One bat]] • [[User:TenPoundHammer|One hammer]])</sup> 22:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

*'''Delete:''' Navbox contains only two links which can be easily found on each of the two respective articles already. There’s really no need for a template that doesn’t serve a true purpose. [[User:Sgt. R.K. Blue|Sgt. R.K. Blue]] ([[User talk:Sgt. R.K. Blue|talk]]) 04:40, 25 March 2010 (UTC)