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{{WikiProject Automobiles|class=B|importance=top}}
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{{Outline of knowledge coverage|automobiles}}
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[[/Archive 1]] - Prior to August 2003<br>
[[/Archive 2]] - Prior to December 2006<br>
[[/Archive 3]] - Prior to January 2010
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== "Per journey" ==

In the table, does anyone happen to know how "deaths per journey" should be interpreted? Does it mean deaths per ''passenger journey'', or per ''vehicle journey''? I have looked at the source and it doesn't say. This matters because while a car may have about two passenger journeys for every vehicle journey, an airplane probably has on the order of 100 passenger journeys per vehicle journey. [[User:Sjakkalle|Sjakkalle]] [[User talk:Sjakkalle|<small>(Check!)</small>]] 08:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
:Ah yes, I was the one who originally found that. I think all the numbers are relating to the passenger, so deaths per passenger kilometre, deaths per passenger hour, and deaths per passenger journeys. [[User:Autonova|Autonova]] ([[User talk:Autonova|talk]]) 19:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:Sjakkalle|Sjakkalle]] [[User talk:Sjakkalle|<small>(Check!)</small>]] 06:52, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

==Design==
===Aerodynamics===
There is no section on the design. Some designs such as the [[Belly tank]] design should be mentioned. See the [[Bill Burke]] and [[Alex Xydias]] cars and the recent [[GM Performance Division]] [[Ecotec Lakester 2006]]
*http://www.barracudamagazine.com/belly.htm
*http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/cars_reviews/gm/GM-belly-tank/cars_reviews-gm-belly-tank.html

Perhaps a aerodynamics section could be made.
[[Special:Contributions/81.241.103.12|81.241.103.12]] ([[User talk:81.241.103.12|talk]]) 08:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

:I don't think it would fit in this article, but you could write a new one.[[User:EdJogg|EdJogg]] ([[User talk:EdJogg|talk]]) 12:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

In addition, a section should be made regarding the size. Some manufacturers such as [[The Naro Car Company]] have very small cars (ie [[Naro]]) designed to allow more cars to drive the streets. Other cars are the foldable car from [[MIT Media Labs]], the adaptive suspension car (CLEVER) invented by [[Benjamin Drew]] (see http://royalsociety.org/CLEVER---Compact-Low-Emission-Vehicle-for-urban-transport/)Cars are a mans best friend.

[[Special:Contributions/217.136.152.213|217.136.152.213]] ([[User talk:217.136.152.213|talk]]) 07:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Also notable car designers as [[Luigi Collani]] (http://www.colani.ch/visions.html; yellow hydrogen-car), [[Coqueline Barrière]]/[[André Courrèges]] (Zooop; see http://www.gizmag.com/go/5844/) [[Syd Mead]], ...

==Future car technologies==
Perhaps modular cars can be mentioned, such as the [[GM Skateboard]]; see http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=293
[[User:KVDP|KVDP]] ([[User talk:KVDP|talk]]) 14:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

==Cite error==
Someone should probably add text to reference 10. People might want to get to the site. [[User:JRLivesey|<font size=+3><font face="Papyrus"><font color="red">J</font><font color="orange">R</font><font color="yellow">L</font>]][[User talk:JRLivesey|<font color="green">i</font><font color="blue">v</font><font color="indigo">e</font><font color="purple">s</font><font color="brown">e</font><font color="black">y</font></font></font>]], 15 April 2010 (UTC)

=="Residents of low-density, residential-only sprawling communities are also more likely to die in car collisions"==

Here's a source for that: [http://jpl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/23/4/347]  [[Special:Contributions/204.52.215.13|204.52.215.13]] ([[User talk:204.52.215.13|talk]]) 19:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion of vehicle safety template==
You might be interested in [[Talk:Motorcycle#Vehicle_safety_template|discussion Vehicle safety template]] at [[Talk:Motorcycle]].  --[[User:Dbratland|Dbratland]] ([[User talk:Dbratland|talk]]) 02:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==Driverless cars==
Can the section also describe the research involving the creation of the "automatrix" ? This would be a system that shares information between cars, and supposedly (according to a Discovery Channel; see http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/future-cars-automatrix-online/?cc=US ) documentary would also be involved in controlling the vehicles by improving the flow. See http://gm.web.cmu.edu/research/index.php , http://gm.web.cmu.edu/research/index.php

The text currently at the section should be moved to a new section "Virtual cars"
[[Special:Contributions/81.245.93.161|81.245.93.161]] ([[User talk:81.245.93.161|talk]]) 15:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request from Jehenton, 26 May 2010 ==

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   Please replace reference to "CAM" under "Data Transmission" heading to "CANBUS"  with link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller_area_network

   I have never heard of CAM, and it's probably a typo of CAN.

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[[User:Jehenton|Jehenton]] ([[User talk:Jehenton|talk]]) 10:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

{{ESp|d}} Thanks! [[User:SpigotMap|<font color="458DD9">Spigot</font>]][[User talk:SpigotMap|<font color="green">Map</font>]] 12:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request from JJszanton, 8 July 2010 ==

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i have found information on the invention of the first automobile, which info has not been correctly included in the history of this machine. The following quote i have copied from THE ONYX by Jacqueline Briskin,who  got her information, as noted in the above book from THE AUTOMOTIVE AGE..., by michael e. knes
i quote,"The first road carriage powered by an engine was invented by a German Jew named Siegfried Marcus in 1864 and roused interest only in the police, who barred the noisy little contraption from the streets. The idea languished. In the 1880s two other Germans,Gottfried Daimler and Karl Benz, working independently of each other, ..." 

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[[User:JJszanton|JJszanton]] ([[User talk:JJszanton|talk]]) 13:06, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
:{{ESp|specific}} And, please, could you indicate more bibliographical bits of info about the book (publisher, year, ISBN and so on)? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">  '''[[User:Salvio giuliano|Salvio]]'''</span> ([[User talk:Salvio giuliano| <sup>Let's talk 'bout it!</sup>]]) 13:21, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:Siegfried Marcus is mentioned in the text of this article, in History of the automobile and has his own page.  The information in this article is, as far as I can see accurate and I do not believe that any more is needed. In case you hadn't realised, Jacqueline Briskin is a fiction writer and her novels should not be used to reference articles such as this.[[User:Malcolma|Malcolma]] ([[User talk:Malcolma|talk]]) 14:26, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

==History==
following line creates the idea that steam cars were unsuccessful: 

In Britain, there had been several attempts to build steam cars with varying degrees of success, with Thomas Rickett ''even attempting a production run in 1860.''[15] Santler from Malvern is recognized by the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain as having made the first petrol-powered car in the country in 1894[16] followed by Frederick William Lanchester in 1895, but these were both one-offs.

--> Can't this be changed to something like 

"In Britain, steam cars began emerging, yielding production units with varying degrees of success. In 1860, Thomas Rickett started [[History_of_steam_road_vehicles|producing steam cars in large numbers]], and companies such as [[Stanley Motor Carriage Company]], [[Doble Automobile]], [[McCulloch Motors Corporation]], ... quickly followed. Santler from Malvern is recognized by the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain as having made the first petrol-powered car in the country in 1894[16] followed by Frederick William Lanchester in 1895, but these were both one-offs."

thanks,
[[Special:Contributions/91.182.140.59|91.182.140.59]] ([[User talk:91.182.140.59|talk]]) 07:06, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

As far as Thomas Rickett is concerned, the original wording is correct. He made at most three cars which is hardly large numbers. His significance is that he advertised the cars (possibly the first car advertisement but I can't source the claim) and attempted to interest people in buying more but without success. The makers you then quote are from much more recent times so are not relevant to the argument.[[User:Malcolma|Malcolma]] ([[User talk:Malcolma|talk]]) 07:38, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

==Durability==
Another issue that isn't mentioned in the article is the durability. Allot of cars have been/are being produced to only last for a very short time. In particular, the material of which the frame/chassis is made is too corrosive. Appearantly, some cars such as the Ford Edsel were already worn by the time they gotout off the production plant. Cars from the 1950's had a half-life of 1 year. This hasn't always been like this however, ie the KdF-wagon, built in pré-WW2 Germany appearantly were made from very good materials, and lasted very long. <ref>De biologica van auto's en zangvogels, Natuurwetenschape & Techniek magazine, April 2010</ref><ref>[http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1657867_1657781,00.html Ford Edsel]</ref><ref>[http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/car-ahead-of-its-time-for-all-time/ VW KdF]</ref>
add in article.
[[Special:Contributions/91.182.130.229|91.182.130.229]] ([[User talk:91.182.130.229|talk]]) 11:12, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:There is nothing in the brief paragraph that your reference from ''Time'' claiming the Ford Edsel was "already worn by the time they gotout off the production plant." This reference contains only random musings, sweeping generalizations, irreverent humor, and hyperbole that are not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Another problem is the definition of "durability" of vehicles. It is often subjective and depends on the use and maintenance by the owner. A perceived "good" or high-quality car can be driven into the ground very quickly an owner, while a vehicle that has a "poor" image may provide reliable service and long-life for someone who takes care if it. Furthermore, there are no "perfect" products and every automaker has encountered problems in their production. Some examples are well known (such as [[Chevrolet Vega|Chevrolet Vega]]s), while others seem to have been forgotten how bad they were, (as in the case of the rapidly rusting Honda Civics and Accords - see: [http://books.google.com/books?id=XBZpIPL1lloC&pg=PA8&dq=Consent+order++Honda&hl=en&ei=6E5GTL6dMMP48AbVq9nzBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Consent%20order%20%20Honda&f=false Jim Dunne "Detroit Report" ''Popular Science'' December 1981‬‬, Vol. 219, No. 6, Page 8]. I think adding such material in this article would not seem to be very beneficial. [[User:CZmarlin|CZmarlin]] ([[User talk:CZmarlin|talk]]) 15:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request from [[User:Tjips|Tjips]] ([[User talk:Tjips|talk]]) 01:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC) ==
Please change the sentence ''"In the United States the average passenger car emits 11,450 lbs (5 tonnes) of carbon dioxide, along with ..."'' (under the "Environmental impact" heading) to ''"In the United States the average passenger car emits 11,450 lbs (5 tonnes) of carbon dioxide '''annually''', along with ..."'' The quantity has no meaning without a timespan of some sort. The referenced source gives the unit as "Total Annual Pollution Emitted .." Thank you. [[User:Tjips|Tjips]] ([[User talk:Tjips|talk]]) 01:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:Done! Thanks for pointing out the missing "duration" -  [[User:CZmarlin|CZmarlin]] ([[User talk:CZmarlin|talk]]) 02:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

== Inaccurate ==

According to most Urban Organizations, like the Urban Land Institute, the Wikipedia Page on High Speed Rail, trolley, other Public transits, and the book People, Cities, Planet: Cars are responsible for most economic woes in the Western World and is the worst thing to ever happen to cities towns. E.g. the area of NYC increased over 60% while the population increased only 5%, and that is taking into consideration that New York is still largely transit based. Suburban Sunbelt cities like Dallas show an all out sprawl to the areas around. This creates inefficiency for everything and make cars the only practical form of transportation(like Orlando, my previous residence). I think this page should mention that the Urban future can not be a bright one with cars dominating. There a reason why China is using 60% of its stimulus for High Speed Rail and why people have now seen their errors and are now struggling to get back on board and away from cars.[[User:ThisguyYEAH|ThisguyYEAH]] ([[User talk:ThisguyYEAH|talk]]) 14:59, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

:Eh? -- [[User:Ian Dalziel|Ian Dalziel]] ([[User talk:Ian Dalziel|talk]]) 20:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

: more relevant to the article [[Effects of the automobile on societies]]. [[User:Malcolma|Malcolma]] ([[User talk:Malcolma|talk]]) 09:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

::Still deserves a mention on this article. There are plenty of sources so that shouldn't be a problem.[[User:ThisguyYEAH|ThisguyYEAH]] ([[User talk:ThisguyYEAH|talk]]) 02:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== Should human powered vehicles be included in this article?? ==

I am wondering why human powered vehicles (re the two Russian inventions listed) are included in this article, when this article, by nature of the word 'automobile', is about mechanically powered vehicles? I have already edited the entry re Ivan Kubilin's invention in which it was previously asserted, without any evidence in the references cited, that he invented a flywheel, differential, transmission etc which seems inaccurate (why would a bicycle of sorts need a flywheel anyway?). 

We should reconsider the relevance of these inventions to this article.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Illdz|Illdz]] ([[User talk:Illdz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Illdz|contribs]]) 00:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Winter Cars? ==

Just something I was musing: in Canada (and many other northern countries I would assume), it is not uncommon for some people (particularly car enthusiasts or collectors) to maintain two or more vehicles - one to drive during the good weather season, and a second for use more-or-less exclusively in the winter. The winter vehicle (often colloquially referred to as a "winter beater") is often older and of lower value, sometimes AWD to deal with snow. The main motivation for the winter beater is the higher probability of severe collisions during winter as well as the damage caused by large quantities of grit and/or salt deposited on the roads during the winter months, making the winter beater a type of "sacrificial lamb" to the season, so that the more desirable/expensive/enjoyable summer car remains in better condition.

Obviously there would be a fair amount of legwork that would have to go into finding reputable sources on the subject (although there's no shortage of popular references to the subject)... But I thought it might be of interest to readers from warmer climates who perhaps might not have ever heard of this practice before.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Aidolon|Aidolon]] ([[User_talk:Aidolon|talk]]) 20:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

:Not a widespread practice in the UK, AFAIK. OK not as 'north' as Canada, but not exactly tropical either. More common is the practice of owning a classic or open-top car which is only driven in fine weather -- possibly contributing to the widespread notion of a '[[Sunday driver]]' (usually 'older', sedate, cautious, not in a hurry, wearing a flat cap...) -- but essentially for the same reasons as above -- [[User:EdJogg|EdJogg]] ([[User talk:EdJogg|talk]]) 07:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
==File:1893 Duryea Motor Wagon.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion==
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== Bias in Article? ==
At nearly every turn in this article there is a finger wagging comment about how automobiles are bad, destroy the environment, ruin the world, etc. Whether or not that is the case, I question whether this is neutral at all. If there must be such comments, I think they should be placed in another article. This is supposed to be an article on automobiles. I reads like a political polemic. [[User:Andacar|Andacar]] ([[User talk:Andacar|talk]]) 04:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Most people enjoy the freedom they provide. [[User:Xsnoxerx|Xsnoxerx]] ([[User talk:Xsnoxerx|talk]]) 10:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

== Edit request from 222.127.29.66, 29 July 2011 ==

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[[Special:Contributions/222.127.29.66|222.127.29.66]] ([[User talk:222.127.29.66|talk]]) 06:00, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
:You need to make a specific request when using that template. If you do, change 'yes' to 'no' in the template to re-open the request. <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">[[User:Feezo|Feezo]] <font size="-2">[[User_talk:Feezo|(send a signal]] | [[Special:Contributions/Feezo|watch the sky]])</font></span> 08:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

== Omissions ==

Why is de Dion Bouton not mentioned in the article, especially since their initial automobile predates Benz, was also designed form the ground up as an automobile and not a "horseless carriage", and they and not Daimler were the earliest largest auto manufacturer. (Besides which the term automobile is French in origin...). The article seems slanted toward internal combustion powered vehicles, despite the fact that the term "automobile" does not imply or require a specific engine type. Also, with reagrd to the citation of Mrs. Benz making the first road trip in 1888, De Dion had done so the previous year when he was the sole competitior in the first motorized competition, cited in the Wikipedia article about De Dion Bouton: "The Marquis de Dion entered one of these in an 1887 trial, "Europe's first motoring competition". Teh aformentioned article contains all of the information omitted from this article, which secures De Dion's place as predecessor to Benz, et al. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.241.22.237|99.241.22.237]] ([[User talk:99.241.22.237|talk]]) 14:15, 28 September 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

[[File:Automobile.jpg]]]]  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/78.45.251.40|78.45.251.40]] ([[User talk:78.45.251.40|talk]]) 12:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== No mention of Bollée vehicles? ==

This article is ridiculous. No mention of the first production cars? with things like 4 wheels, independent suspension, gearbox, rear wheel drive, doing 30-40 mph, etc? [[Special:Contributions/86.20.150.77|86.20.150.77]] ([[User talk:86.20.150.77|talk]]) 23:45, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

== Incorrect photo ==
The photo of a "Model T" opposite the picture of Henry Ford is actually a Model A.[[Special:Contributions/76.114.136.44|76.114.136.44]] ([[User talk:76.114.136.44|talk]]) 22:31, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

==Mention cyclecars==
[[cyclecar]]s such as the Morgan Runabout were sold in far greater quantities than 4-seater cars in this period<ref>Britains Greatest Machines documentary stating that 100 cyclecars were sold for every 4-seater car in 1914</ref> so mention them in article

== Suggestions for improvement ==

Hello, the section Driverless cars should be combined into the section Future technologies. The section Mass production should be combined into history, but some of it could go to the section Industry. The section Open source development should be removed altogether - who geek added it?! ;) The Criticism and Alternatives to automobiles sections should be combined. We can discuss these changes here, but I'm pretty sure these changes would improve the article. --[[Special:Contributions/91.157.12.243|91.157.12.243]] ([[User talk:91.157.12.243|talk]]) 14:30, 21 September 2012 (UTC)