View source for Talk:Bulldog

{{WikiProject Dogs|class=Start|importance=high|breeds=yes}}
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== The bulldog from the new transformers movie ==
This dog is a French bulldog and therefore I have removed the reference from the popular culture section.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Georgekwatson|Georgekwatson]] ([[User talk:Georgekwatson|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Georgekwatson|contribs]]) 03:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==francis from [[Oliver and Company]]==
you saw that on disney today too, eh? [[User:Gzuckier|Gzuckier]] 23:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

==Disambiguation/Bulldog or English Bulldog==

Hello, I think [[Bulldog]] should be made a [[disambiguation]] page and the bulldog page renamed [[English Bulldog]].  Each bulldog breed [[:Category:Bulldog breeds]] and related webpages could be listed on the disambiguation page.  There are many types of bulldogs, it seems unfair to give it to just one breed.  The English Bulldog is not really just called a bulldog.  [[User:WritersCramp|WritersCramp]] 17:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm, I have arguements both for and against this. But at the moment, im leaning towards "yes". After all, the [[English Mastiff]] Is more often simply called "Mastiff" but that name is being used by a page describing the [[Mastiff]] group in general. 

:I would vote to rename the Bulldog "English Bulldog" but i would then turn the bage into a bulldog group page over a disambig. [[User:Tekana|Tekana]] | [[User talk:Tekana|Talk]] 17:37, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

:Hello, glad to see such a quick and definite response.  By doing this I do not mean to slight the English Bulldog, I simply believe that stating the are "Bulldog" is really confuses people.  Perhaps, an historical perspective of the Bulldog as Tekana suggested would be the most appropriate.  I created the Bulldog Categor y, which supports the argument that when you say "Bulldog" is does not necessarily mean English Bulldog. [[User:WritersCramp|WritersCramp]] 19:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the [[English Bulldog]] and created a separate [[Bulldog]] page.  There is certainly room for improvement, I won't be offended if you want to embelish it !  [[User:WritersCramp|WritersCramp]] 02:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


::Its good you have said that, because in my opinion, it needs a LOT of embellishing! 

::First of all, remove everything about bullbaiting, that infomation needs to be in the ''bull baiting'' article, not the ''bulldog'' article! I am aware that they coincide, and a '''small''' paragraph or so should dedicated to it. But at the moment, the page is basically just an article on bull baiting!

::It needs a lot mor info on the bulldog breeds in themselves. A few things to include might be:
*What was the origininal bulldog breed? 
*How have the Bulldog breeds changed over the years? 
*How have the breeds evolved?
*How popular they are as pets/working dogs? 
*Other uses of bulldog breeds (are they used as assistance dogs? detection dogs?)
*The reputation of the bulltdog breeds?
*Charicteristics of the bulldogs in general?
*What makes a bulldog breed a bulldog breed? 
:*Is the original purpose of every bully breed to fight bulls, or were they just named so because of physical or mental likeliness to bulldog breeds?

::How about a list of Bulldog breeds?

::If you need help, my [[user talk:Tekana|Talk page]] isnt going anywhere! Also, you could look at the [[Mastiff]], or the [[Working dog]] pages to search for ideas! [[User:Tekana|Tekana]] | [[User talk:Tekana|Talk]] 09:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

:::*Ack, ack, ack, this is me waving my arms and jumping up and down.
:::#One response within one day is not difinitive. There are others of us out there who might have opinions. 
:::#Moving a page does NOT entail copying the text and pasting it someplace else; that loses all of the history for that page, leaving it behind in wherever it is that it was copied from.  There might be a way now for an admin to undo the copy/paste move and then recreate the new bulldog page, but I'm going to have to research it as I don't remember what the process is. In any event, it's work. If you want to move a page to somewhere where there's currently a redirect, you need to ask to have the redir page removed (and explain why) on the appropriate WP page and then actuallY MOVE the original page.
:::#There was in fact intelligent design in why the pages were named what they were. Back in May '04, dog project had a discussion on this topic, and if I could find that discussion, I'd be so happy I'd be waving only one arm instead of both.  The gist was that most kennel clubs and breed clubs call the breed "Bulldog"; UKC calls it the "English Bulldog" and I think they're the only major english-speaking club to do so; one other calls it the "British Bulldog". So "Bulldog" is by far the most-common breed name.  Still, at the time we *did* have the discussion about where to put the general discussion of bulldog breeds. I'm going to try asking [[User:Sannse|Sannse]] whether she can put her finger on that discussion, as half an hour of searching on my part doesn't turn it up. I'm hoping that it didn't somehow get deleted when someone was moving pages around at some time, or overwritten by a newbie, or something like that.  
:::[[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 22:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


Sorry [[User:Elf|Elf]] I did not realize that the copy and the move had destinctive functions.  I still believe that the [[Bulldog]] page should be a default page for all Bulldog breeds.  However, if I am out voted that is okay.  If there was a discussion on the Bulldog page it should have been pasted here, so others can find it.  Cordially [[User:WritersCramp|WritersCramp]] 23:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

:Oh, I agree about that last bit--it drives me crazy when I can't find stuff like that. I think most of us try to move discussions to the appropriate places, but obviously this one didn't.  Sorry I can't refer to that.  [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


===Restarting discussion===
Since no one else has weighed in on this issue and I can't find the original discussion from over a year ago, and the more I think about it, the more I agree with the two of you on how the articles should be organized.  I really just wanted to make sure that the page histories stayed with the correct text, and I didn't want to muck too much with moving things around, so this [[Bulldog]]/[[Bulldog breeds]] split was a quick fix.  I know that Bulldog Breeds isn't a consistent article title--it shd be either Bulldog breed (which doesn't make much sense) or List of bulldog breeds (which we already know we don't want--we want (and have) an explanation of what a bulldog is, ''including'' a list of bulldog breeds.  

So what I'm saying is, following tekana's argument about Mastiff/English Mastiff, OK, I can go for the Bulldog/English Bulldog split.  And I  can do the move/rename correctly this time, if y'all still want this to be done.  [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 16:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

==Bulldog/English Bulldog/Bulldog breeds==
OK, here's what I did to try to get most of the page's history back with the text that goes with it:
* Created a new page, [[Bulldog breeds]], to hold the generic bulldog article written by WritersCramp.
* Left this page (already reverted by someone else) as the breed page for the specific breed "Bulldog" and folded in the two small changes (as far as I can tell) made while it was at [[English Bulldog]]
*Turned English Bulldog back into a redirect here.

Now--that does not mean that that's how these pages have to stay. When the naming is decided, we can rearrange the pages with proper moves. If anything needs to be deleted to accomplish that, I can do it.  [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

== The history section is ridiculuous ==

I see we repeat here the apocryphal nonsense about this dog being in some way, shape or form descended from bull-baiting dogs, and that the smushy face of modern "bulldogs" somehow served a purpose in bull-baiting.

"Its short and slightly upward facing snout enables it to breathe while keeping hold of the bull, its wrinkles allowed blood to flow away from the dog's eyes and nose, and its thickly-muscled neck and light hind end helped to prevent the thrashing of the bull's head from breaking the dog's spine."

Again, ridiculous.

Its short snout gives it breathing problems even when it is lying down.  Its weak jaws mean that latching onto a bull would be impossible.  Its odd build means that it is among the most unathletic dogs.  This dog does not have blatter problems.

These animals were bred for their comical appearance.

I object to having factoids dressed up in the form of an encylopedia entry.


:While this information may be true today, when the breed was used for bull baiting it was not. The breed has changed dramatically over the years. Since bull baiing was banned, enthusiasts of the breed made it more compact with a shorter nose and exaggerated wrinkles. The modern bulldog is nothing like its fighting anscestor. [[User:Tekana|Tekana]] (O.o) [[User talk:Tekana|Talk]] 18:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


:I agree, the history section needs to be edited. The "English Bulldog" did not achieve its present form out of the utility of bullbaiting, the dog was bred to be what it is as a service of fancy. Further, I think we need to be truthful here, the "English Bulldog" is a bastardized product of the Bulldog of the pre-Victorian era and the Pug.

:You're right the modern bulldog was bred specifically with the Pug. That's why the pre-Victorian bulldog appears to be far more like a modern (bull)terrier than that of a modern bulldog. The histoy section is pathetic for not mentioning this - it stupidly looks like a mediocre English kennel club advertisement or something. So I edited it a bit - but somebody needs to do a more extensive job of it. [[User:Loginigol|Loginigol]] 11:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


*Actually, I agree with the idea that the history section needs to be re-written (I'm working on that currently) however the bulldog as it is today, started with the dog being bred for bull-baiting characteristics that have been since been accentuated/exaggerated by selective breeding. So regardless of nay-sayers with little to no knowledge of the breed may think, the dog as it stands is a product of breeding for bull-baiting, but has been exaggerated over the years to what it is now which bears little to no resemblance to the dog initially - that doesn't change it's roots however. I disagree with the statement that the section currently looks like an advert and haven't any evidence as yet that Pug was used to help create the modern animal (however I can't rule that out at present) hence I have removed it until it can be cited correctly (as is standard Wiki policy). However, the dog as it stands did indeed come from bull-baiting stock (that much can and will be proven in the history section as and when I finally complete it, work providing) and the section in question will be updated. [[User:Drivenapart|Drivenapart]] 11:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

::You are the one who haven't provided proof that it was just a product of just bullbaiters and yet you demand proof for Pug? I'm curious which historian is backing you up (besides a possible kennel club that is) [[User:Loginigol|Loginigol]] 12:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

* As I maintain, you complain about lack of sourcing information yet you put in unsourced information yourself - while I have freely granted that the history section requires a rewrite, inputting further unsourced information by yourself doesn't help the situation. If you'd read what I had said, I'm researching fully and tracing bloodlines of the bulldog right back. I don't work for, and am not affiliated with, any Kennel Club in any capacity whatsoever and am actually using established methods to trace the history correctly. As for what historian, there will be none however this won't be original research rather the bringing together of already available information. Why are you so convinced of a conspiracy? [[User:Drivenapart|Drivenapart]] 08:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

::I sourced my contribution. So you are resorting to lies and deciet when you start claiming something about "lack of sourcing". Do you own Wikipedia? If you don't then you have no right to do what you are doing: deleting sourced information and lying about it. You are acting like as if this is your website or something. This is Wikipedia. You're supposed to challenge the facts - not me. The record shows that the history-section has been looking rubbish for too long. The rest of us have no obligation to wait until you bother yourself to sort out the mess, To my knowledge you are not the owner of Wikipedia. [[User:Loginigol|Loginigol]] 14:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

*Whether or not sourced, the information you have put in is equally as debatable as the information there which is why I have removed it (the opening line which says that one sections believes one thing and another believes another is proof of this). So sourced or otherwise, your information is no better than the information that's there already.  No, I don't own Wiki, but for that matter neither do you as a result information which is verifiable dubious at best (as is the information you have added, will be removed until correct information can be put in it's place. I have challenged the facts, which is why I have deleted that information you have put in (the sentence says that there is debate over the issue, which means that saying it came from a Pug is not been proved so regardless of referencing it doesn't make any more correct than the information there). And actually we <b>all</b> have a duty to challenge the facts, which is why we end up with a more accurate section. Just out of curiousity what exactly have  Ilied about? I have removed information that, althought referenced, says that there is debate over whether it came from a Mastiff or a Pug...there's no lie there. I certainly haven't claimed you lacked sources, I have debated the quality of the information you have put in due to it being questionable and stipulated as being so in the article to which you referenced. If you insist on putting in information then please back it up with unquestionable evidence - we are all together trying to write a better article not crate a war because you're placing information in an article, the author of which states that the facts aren't certain. As a result, I have perfect right to remove said information. If you have a problem with my doing this, I suggest that either we go to a consensus of readers of the article or take it to mediation. Your attitude across articles however suggests that you prefer a more aggressive tack. [[User:Drivenapart|Drivenapart]] 14:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

== merge ==

The old english,original and wilkinsons bulldog pages should be merged.

:'''No Merge''' - these are separate breeds [[User:SirIsaacBrock|SirIsaacBrock]] 03:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


:I don't know about merging the "English Bulldog" page with the other ones, considering it is a different breed and its ancestry has already been sufficiently covered; however, I like the idea of merging the Original English Bulldog page with the Wilkinson and American Bulldog pages. The only problem is that such an article would become rather overwhelming.

==The Legendary Bulldog==
Anyone acquire this book yet ?? ISBN 1595940324

[[User:SirIsaacBrock|SirIsaacBrock]] 10:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

== Mascots ==

I think that the current mascot section of this article is getting a bit out of control.   Anyone have any objection to removing the list and creating a [[List of Bulldog mascots]] article instead?  - [[User:Trysha|Trysha]] <sup>([[User_talk:Trysha|talk]])</sup> 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:Ok, i made the above list, the list here was getting nuts - please add new mascots over there.  - [[User:Trysha|Trysha]] <sup>([[User_talk:Trysha|talk]])</sup> 17:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

: I am of the opinion that we should do the same for Bulldogs in popular culture. I highly doubt that anyone who's coming to read the encyclopedic entry on Bulldogs is looking specifically for this ever growing loosely referenced list [[User:Asmadeus|-asmadeus]] 02:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
:: No one chimed in. I moved the content to [[List of Bulldogs in popular culture]]. [[User:Asmadeus|-asmadeus]] 17:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

== SPEEDY DELETION (Copyright issues) ==
::Original page: http://www.heavensentbulldogrescue.com/bulldoginfo.html
::Listed for Speedy Deletion due to blatant word for work copyright infringement

I tried re-writing the article on my own at first, to remove the infringing material but keep as much of the article as I could. But almost the entire article is taken word for word from the other site. I know there are alot of bulldog fans out there though, so hopefully it can be re-written from scratch quickly. [[User:64.230.4.4|64.230.4.4]] 00:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

*I've removed in entirety the infringing material and as such have removed the Speedy Delete tag. Apologies to editors of the [[WP:DOGS]] but prompt action was required. [[User:Suriel1981|<font color="#9400D2" face="comic sans ms"><strong>ŞůṜīΣĻ</strong></font><font color="#00008C" face="Papyrus">¹98¹</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Suriel1981|<font COLOR="#DC143C"><strong>Speak</strong></font>]]</sup><sub>[[User:Suriel1981/Autographs|<font COLOR="#DC143C"><strong>Sign</strong></font>]]</sub> 03:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

== Reworking temperment section ==

I've tried the best I can to arrange it, formalize the tone a bit and eliminate extraneous or redundant information. Any other additions or changes would be helpful. [[User:Ri3mannZeta|Ri3mannZeta]] 16:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Ri3mannZeta|Ri3mannZeta]] ([[User talk:Ri3mannZeta|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ri3mannZeta|contribs]]) 16:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

I've made some additional edits to this section in an effort to clean it up and add structure/decrease its conversational style [[User:65.241.15.131|65.241.15.131]] 20:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

== Adding What-A-Bully-Bulldogs.com to the bulldog page ==

I have been trying to add a link to this page for three days. The link is what - a - bully - bulldogs .com. This website is not just a breeders website. The is a lot of information about the breeding standard and about how to care for bulldogs. The woman who owns What-A-Bully Bulldogs is NOT a commercial breeder. She has maybe one litter a year. She will also give advise to ANYONE who has a bulldog. All they have to do is call or email her. She will help even if the owner of the bulldog did not buy it from her. She will help people find their local Bulldog Club of America. Or if they do not what to buy a dog from her and have it shipped to them, she will help them find a breeder in their area. I have heard a lot of wonderful things about this woman from so many people. Please do not delete this link again.

* That's nice, but it's not what the 'general information' section is for. It's reserved for websites which offer general Bulldog information ONLY, and not for breeder websites which also happen to have a page or two of breed info stuck on them. Also, Wikipedia has nothing to do with a 'nice breeder' who doesn't mind if people phone or email her. If she creates a web page which is solely devoted to general information on Bulldogs, come back and add it. [[User:Frogdogz|Frogdogz]] 09:32, 06 June 2007

* removed hyperlink from this talk thread. [[User:Frogdogz|Frogdogz]] 07:55, 13 June 2007

== Why did Winston get removed? ==

Under the famous bulldogs section, Winston, the bulldog in "The Longest Day" on Sword beach was removed.  Why?  Just because someone doesn't catch the reference doesn't give them license to remove it.  He was quite the character in the movie and deserves a spot on famous bulldogs list.

[[User:Andykass|Andykass]] 05:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, after I posted this, it showed up again.  I suppose it was either my mistake or my computer not refreshing after several hours.  Many apologies!  If anyone can confirm that it was Sword beach that would be great.  Thanks!

[[User:Andykass|Andykass]] 05:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

== Adam Sandler's dogs ==

adam sandler's dogs meatball and matzoball were both bulldogs. there are pictures of them on his website. it doesn't say anything about them on his wiki though. [[User:Whitey138|Whitey138]] 19:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

== Hip Dysplasia Question ==

I think there should be some disambiguation regarding the hip dysplasia issue. In the UK there is very little hip dysplasia in the breed, however by contrast there are quite a few dogs which have interstitial cysts, which although not as serious can cause the dog discomfort. 26/06/07.

There seems to be an individual who has a passion for posting wrong information regarding this question of hip dysplasi in the breed. I've removed it and corrected it and explained why, many bulldog owners have removed or corrected it, and it reappears. There is not only this misguided person who posts, but a "moderator" who has claimed the page and the wrong information as his or her own and consistently reverts the page to the wrong information. I give up: if you don't understand statistics, you don't get it. And no amount of discussion by people who actually HAVE and RAISE bulldogs -- 100% without hip dysplasia -- is going to fix that. I'll be taking this up with the OFFA, who perhaps will understand that a disclaimer and better review of their statistical publication would make them more credible.

And I thought this was quite accurate: "I object to having factoids dressed up in the form of an encylopedia entry." Allmimsy (talk) 23:45, 30 July 2010 (UTC)  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.220.12.157|67.220.12.157]] ([[User talk:67.220.12.157|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== USMC Mascot changed for accuracy ==

The USMC mascot bulldog is erroneously referred to in this article by the name of "Chester". Being named after Lt Col. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller (The "Chesty" nickname referred to Col. Puller's Physique, not his actual name), I have changed it to the proper "Chesty".[[User:66.56.237.64|66.56.237.64]] 22:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

== help ==

this was very helpful for my essay thanks  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Avgirl001|Avgirl001]] ([[User talk:Avgirl001|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Avgirl001|contribs]]) 00:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:OMG DON'T YOU KNOW YOU CANT USE WIKIPEDIA FOR SCHOOL??!?!! tildetildetildetilde  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.33.76.136|71.33.76.136]] ([[User talk:71.33.76.136|talk]]) 10:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Pete Wentz owns two bulldogs ==
Before anyone decides to delete what I posted, Pete Wentz does own another bulldog besides Hemingway. It was shown on [[The Dog Whisperer]]. [[User:Mokoniki|Mokoniki]] ([[User talk:Mokoniki|talk]]) 01:25, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[[User:Mokoniki|Mokoniki]]


== Brad Pitt owns a Bulldog ==
I saw it in a magazine. It didn't state the dog's name though. [[User:Mokoniki|Mokoniki]] ([[User talk:Mokoniki|talk]]) 14:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[[User:Mokoniki|Mokoniki]]

== bulldog or Bulldog ? ==

The article is not consistent.  Sometimes little-b bulldog, sometimes capitalized.  Should the word ''always'' be capitalized, or not?  - [[User:Hordaland|Hordaland]] ([[User talk:Hordaland|talk]]) 04:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

== Temperament section ==

This section states

 The phrase "stubborn as a bulldog" is loosely rooted in fact. They rank 77th out of 79 in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, being of lowest degree working/obedience intelligence.

It is unclear whether the second part is a motivation for the first, or
independent. If the former, it is probably flawed: The explanation is likelier
the stereotypical bulldog's refusal to give up in fights (e.g. against bulls).
If the latter, a motivation should be added.
[[Special:Contributions/188.100.201.255|188.100.201.255]] ([[User talk:188.100.201.255|talk]]) 04:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

== Why do people keep insisting on the "small sample size" argument? ==

A sample size of 467 specimens evaluated by the Orthopedic Foundation for animals is not a small sample in statistical terms!!!
The british study with only 22 dogs evaluated was a small sample!!  
The selection bias argument also does not fly. The same selection bias would apply to all breeds evaluated by OFA. yet the bulldog remains the breed where the most cases of hip dysplasia are found!!! This is obviously not the result of chance, folks!  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Altes2009|Altes2009]] ([[User talk:Altes2009|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Altes2009|contribs]]) 05:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Sorry, but 467 dogs IS a small sample that is badly affected by sleection bias because of HOW the data were collected.  There are around 250,000 AKC-registerable bulldogs in the US [Data estimated from AKC registration rates, letter from the AKC 2010].  467 out of a quarter million is a miniscule sample around two-tenths of a percent.  That number does not include partbred or owner-identified bulldogs.  To flatly say that 75% of the bulldog breed have hip problems based on such a small sample is not credible.  A prevelance of 75% for any health condition is very, very high, and as such requires a large sample to make it believable.  The hundred thousand Alsations (German Shepherds) tested may be a credible sample.  Well under one percent is not. 

Selection bias works like this:  suppose you tell me that 75% of the people of Bloomington, Minnesota, or Buffalo, NY, or Arlington, Texas, have blue eyes (the prevalence of blue eyes in the US is around one-third. [Source: Wikipedia]).  "Ah!" I say.  "What was your sample size?"  "467." you say.  "Well, that is not a small sample in statistical terms!" I say. "What was your research method?"  And you say "I personally made a visual evaluation of all 623 people at the Svenkarnasdag Picnic in Minnehaha Park and even given a small uncertainty among those with greenish eyes, I am confident in my sample size."  

This is selction bias.  People at the Svenkarnasdag picnic are probably mainly of Norwegian ancestry, and Norwegians are quite likely to have blue rather than brown eyes. (You can substitute the German Festival of Buffalo, or the Sauerbraten eats in Texas.)  Likewise, bulldogs with hip problems may go to the vet; the vet can report the results to the OPA.  There is no effort to survey a relevant portion of the entire bulldog population.  Bulldogs without hip problems are not reported.  The sample suffers from selection bias.  [[Special:Contributions/136.234.105.211|136.234.105.211]] ([[User talk:136.234.105.211|talk]]) 20:15, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be an individual who has a passion for posting wrong information regarding this question of hip dysplasi in the breed.  I've removed it and corrected it and explained why, many bulldog owners have removed or corrected it, and it reappears.  There is not only this misguided person who posts, but a "moderator" who has claimed the page and the wrong information as his or her own and consistently reverts the page to the wrong information.  I give up: if you don't understand statistics, you don't get it.  And no amount of discussion by people who actually HAVE and RAISE bulldogs -- 100% without hip dysplasia -- is going to fix that.  I'll be taking this up with the OFFA, who perhaps will understand that a disclaimer and better review of their statistical publication would make them more credible. 

And I thought this was quite accurate: "I object to having factoids dressed up in the form of an encylopedia entry."
[[User:Allmimsy|Allmimsy]] ([[User talk:Allmimsy|talk]]) 23:45, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:While there is certainly selection bias in the OFA sample, it might not affect results the way you think it would. From [https://secure.vlsstore.com/Media/PublicationsArticle/PV_24_07_526.pdf Canine Hip Dysplasia: The Disease and Its Diagnosis(PDF)]:
::The true prevalence of CHD by breed in the general population is unknown. Most hip registries worldwide permit voluntary submission of hip radiographs. Understandably, this practice encourages prescreening of films such that only the best (most normal-looking) films get submitted for evaluation. The resulting bias in the registry understates the true prevalence of CHD within breeds of pedigreed dogs.
:And that is based not just on speculation.
::Data suggest that this bias is large and breed dependent. A random sampling of subjectively scored hip radiographs from 200 golden retrievers and 132 rottweilers showed the prevalence of CHD to be 74% and 69%, respectively.3 These figures are 2 to 3 times higher than comparable figures reported in the United States by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).
:The [http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2005.226.387?journalCode=javma study] referenced states that "Radiographs with normal-appearing hips were 8.2 times as likely to be submitted to the OFA". It is certainly possible that Bulldog breeders/owners are so much more conscientious than golden retrievers and rottweilers breeders/owners that they shift the bias the other way but I wouldn't put my money on it. 
:We could just add that the OFA numbers are based on voluntary submissions, but personally, I wouldn't mind removing the 73.9% figure and just state that they have the highest incidence rate among all breeds. The more interesting thing that deserves mention is that it is [http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html?view=2 getting worse over time].--[[User:Dodo bird|Dodo bird]] ([[User talk:Dodo bird|talk]]) 04:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Just to add to the clarification, a sample size of 467 out of a population of 250,000 is statistically significant for a confidence interval of +/-4.5% at a confidence level of 95%.  [[Special:Contributions/128.101.142.152|128.101.142.152]] ([[User talk:128.101.142.152|talk]]) 22:35, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

== Comments about veterinary care costs ==

Someone deleted my comments about the significant veterinary costs associated with bulldog ownership, stating that this was "not relevant" to the scope of the article. I think this is very relevant. People contemplating bulldog ownership should be fully aware of the numerous health problems affecting the breed and should be prepared to care for them. Too often dogs are purchased based on fancy, but when problems begin to surface, many are abandoned or taken to the pound. This is extremely irresponsible.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Altes2009|Altes2009]] ([[User talk:Altes2009|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Altes2009|contribs]]) 05:36, 4 March 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Can you find sources that back up your claim?  It would help since [[WP:V]] policy states that claims must have sources.  --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 00:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== [[The Bulldog International Research Center]]==
I have to say that the theory purposed about the development of the breed on Wikipedia Page is absolutely out from results of my studies [[User:mikytully|mikytully]] 16:36, 16 sep 2010.
:I agree. tildetildetildetilde  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.164.67.132|75.164.67.132]] ([[User talk:75.164.67.132|talk]]) 00:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Bulldog Categories on Commons ==

I'm curious why the Commons template doesn't link to all the photos with Category: English Bulldog? I recently added a photo on commons and copied the category that seemed most prevalent, i.e. English Bulldog, but the template only seems to link to a subsection of bulldogs. I'm new to adding photos, so I can understand if I missed something or don't understand something. Can anyone enlighten me?
Here's the commons image I recently uploaded:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:I_AM_Smiling.jpg

Thanks, [[User:Almonroth|Almonroth]] ([[User talk:Almonroth|talk]]) 00:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

== Skin Conditions ==

Bulldogs are well known to have chronic skin conditions, particularly in the facial folds and under the tail.  Unfortunately, there is very little mentioned on skin conditions under the health section.  I am current on the hunt for reliable sources to back up owner experiences.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:EDiT755|EDiT755]] ([[User talk:EDiT755|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/EDiT755|contribs]]) 23:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== British bulldog ==

Is anyone seriously suggesting that British Bulldog is not an alternate name for this breed?
:The UK Kennel Club describe this breed of dog purely as “ BULLDOG”, nothing before or after its title, but in foreign countries it is commonly known as the English Bulldog or referred to in the press as the ‘British Bulldog’ or the Churchill Dog. - [http://www.bulldogbreedcouncil.co.uk/ UK Bulldog Breed Council] 

There are even breed clubs named after the term. [http://www.britishbulldogclub.org/index.html THE BRITISH BULLDOG CLUB], [http://www.bbcov.com/ THE BRITISH BULLDOG CLUB OF VICTORIA] etc. --[[User:Dodo bird|Dodo bird]] ([[User talk:Dodo bird|talk]]) 02:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

...

Yes that would be correct. The name of the dog breed is English bulldog, not British bulldog. The country of origin is England. Not UK, not Great Britain, not Britain. British bulldog would be erroneous.
What has happened here is that a few people (including a moderator) has moved in and done mass edits to the article without first discussing it on the talk page. Me and a friend of mine are reverting the article back to its state prior to these mass edits.
The mass edits as unconstructive bordering vandalism. They have no grounds for these mass edits and their mass edits are to be reverted until that any concesus has been reached.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vallonen|Vallonen]] ([[User talk:Vallonen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vallonen|contribs]]) 07:52, 26 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Names often defy logic and simply reflect common usage (there are hundreds of examples, like [[White rhinoceros]] has nothing to do with color). A Google books search returns some 2990 hits for "British bulldog" (in different meanings, but many for a dog breed) and 4030 for "English bulldog". [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 07:59, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
*[[User:Vallonen|Vallonen]], you're use of "erroneous" in the context of the topic raised is erroneous.  I see no reason to disagree that the name of the dog breed is English bulldog (which kind of raises the question as to why the title "Bulldog" is used for the article) but this does not change the fact that the name "British bulldog" IS widely used.<br />
:I will repeat the opening question:<br />
:Is anyone seriously suggesting that British Bulldog is not an alternate name for this breed?<br />
:Clear citations to the use of British bulldog have been given above.  More can be given. If Wikipedia is to be encyclopaedic, some reference to such content must be made.  If needed a note can be added regarding official and unofficial terminologies or something like that BUT, as anyone can see, the term "British bulldog" is clearly and widely used.  Given the topic raised I find the arguments of [[User talk:Dodo bird]] and [[User:Materialscientist]] to be the ones with validity.  [[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 10:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
In no way does that change the name of the dog breed or its country of origin. What you and others have done is to mass edit the article making changes without first having discussed it on the talk page seeking consensus. When I then reverted the article back to its state prior to that of mass edits you told me that I* should be the one to visit the talk page after having reverted* you lots mass edits. That's clearly wrong; it's the other way around.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vallonen|Vallonen]] ([[User talk:Vallonen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vallonen|contribs]]) 08:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It does not matter who started what (I also came to this article by chance, by vandalism alert), and how long did some text stay in an article - what matters is correct entry in the article. Some authors explicitly state "the Bulldog (commonly, although incorrectly, called the English or British Bulldog)", i.e. both names are misnomers, and I personally won't mind removing them both. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 08:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Look. I came to the article in the very much the same way you did.I restored it to its prior state to that of mass editing which I happen to think now borders that of edit warring. As for the entry of the article it is correct (at time of writing this) If people wish to change it they must first visit the talk page and seek consensus. Not conduct an edit war. That's just not cool. It ain't right either. And it means that since I am reverting the article back to its prior state it will be suggested that I* would be conducting an edit war. Which would be wrong. No one can just move in and make changes to an article like that and then afterwards suggest that the one reverting it back to its prior* state would be the one obligated to take it up on the talk page for making those changes. As for the name "English bulldog" I don't deem that to be a misnomer. The name stem from the dog breeds country of origin, which would be England. This is also made clear in the entry of the article (at time of writing this)  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vallonen|Vallonen]] ([[User talk:Vallonen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vallonen|contribs]]) 08:43, 26 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:In short, you have two arguments: (i) the article was correct because it was, (ii) the name should follow logic (the country of origin). Both do not apply to names on wikipedia. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 09:08, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Let's not dispute that names follow logic and that of country of origin because they often do. Even though I saw two editors who thought to take issue with the dog breeds very country of origin itself. Listing the UK instead of England, the Union* wasn't around in the 15th century. 

"British Bulldog" when used as a name for the dog breed, is the result of people not being able to separate "England" from "Britain" (a common issue in general, even within England itself)"English Bulldog" is the more prominent name for the dog breed, both in common usages as well as in books and online. "British Bulldog" is thus an erroneous name when used as a name for the dog breed. The name is used, and should be used, for the game of "British Bulldog". I am therefore of the opinion that the name of "British Bulldog" has no place in the article.

This seem to be the core issue among recent editors you included, at the same time you also let it be known that you wouldn't mind seeing the name of "English Bulldog" go. I don't know if that means that if you, and recent editors, don't get to list the dog breed as "British Bulldog", then the name of "English Bulldog" would have to go as well.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vallonen|Vallonen]] ([[User talk:Vallonen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vallonen|contribs]]) 13:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Basically there are three people supporting a change and one person, in my interpretation, expressing considerable [[wp:pov|pov]].  You say: '"British Bulldog" when used as a name for the dog breed, is the result of people not being able to separate "England" from "Britain"'.  How do you know what they can and can't separate?  A persons right to choose to use the terminologies that they choose to use should not be considered as an indication of [[disability]] unless you can prove it as such.  You say: 'I am therefore of the opinion that the name of "British Bulldog" has no place in the article.'  Opinions don't make for encyclopaedic content.  The term "British bulldog" has currency and must be given fair representation.  The British Bulldog has a history of being a British national icon and, to my mind, it would be [[political correctness gone mad]], to allow such references to be edited out. [[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 11:35, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

===Proposal: change text of lead to also include British Bulldog===

A simple search on the internet will indicate that the term [https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=British%20Bulldog "British Bulldog"] ''is'' used and that it has a long history of use.  I don't think that the suggestion was made ever made in the text above that the term "British Bulldog" should be used in replacement for "bulldog" only that a legitimate acknowledgement of the historical, cultural and popular use of the term should be made.  References to "British Bulldog" have appeared in popular culture to the extent that a related [[British Bulldog (disambiguation)|disambiguation page]] has been required.  

At the moment the lead begins:

'''Bulldog''' is the name for a breed of [[dog]] commonly referred to as the '''English Bulldog'''.

The proposal is to change this to:

'''Bulldog''' is the name for a breed of [[dog]] also called the '''English Bulldog''' or '''British Bulldog'''.

[[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 06:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

*A use of something like:<br />
:'''Bulldog''' is the name for a breed of [[dog]] also called the '''English Bulldog''' or, unofficially, '''British Bulldog'''.<br />
:could alternatively be used, but I would personally like to see some reference to indicate who or what makes commonly used terminologies official or unofficial.  [[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 11:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

===Proposal: change "Other uses" tag to include British Bulldog (disambiguation)===

The proposal is to change the other uses tag to:

<source lang="text">
{{Other uses|Bulldog (disambiguation)|British Bulldog (disambiguation)}}
</source>

so as to present:

{{Other uses|Bulldog (disambiguation)|British Bulldog (disambiguation)}}

It currently gives:

{{Other uses}}

[[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 06:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

== Changing the lead picture ==

[[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest]], editing involves contributing to Wikipedia to promote your own interests. The same Editor who took the picture was the same, who also initiated the change, and that would be lobbying for own work and own picture, even if I do understand the creators feelings for liking their own pictures, it’s not a good enough reason. This picture isn't better than the lead picture. And it is slightly under Wikipedia standards, eyes are not open on dog, the frame is too heavy, the back legs can be seen, even if it is a portrait, it doesn't   correspond to the criteria pictures acceptable for the article. Please try to take some other pictures of the dog. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 09:42, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
[[File:Buldog angielski 000pl.jpg|thumb|200px|"picture added"]]
:I would still '''support a change''' as I don't think that the current picture [[:File:Bulldog standing.JPG]] is representative of others at: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:English_Bulldog wikimedia Category:English_Bulldog].  Options for change could include: [[:File:Bulldog portrait Frank.jpg]], [[:File:Charles the English Bulldog.JPG]] or [[:File:Clyde The Bulldog.jpg]] with this last option currently being the second picture to appear on the page. I prefer the first option.  [[User:Gregkaye|Gregkaye]] ([[User talk:Gregkaye|talk]]) 07:50, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I also support a change of the current picture , I think the new picture is of a higher standard and perhaps its more representative of the breed too.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.209.185.43|82.209.185.43]] ([[User talk:82.209.185.43|talk]]) 19:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->