View source for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Achraf Baznani (photographer)

===[[Achraf Baznani (photographer)]]===
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:{{la|Achraf Baznani (photographer)}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Achraf Baznani (photographer)|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 September 5#{{anchorencode:Achraf Baznani (photographer)}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Achraf_Baznani_(photographer) Stats]</span>)
:({{Find sources|Achraf Baznani (photographer)}})
Doesn't seem to meet [[WP:GNG]] (in particular [[WP:Artist]]). The article shows no sign of significant coverage in RS. In addition to several points of concern:
*The article has been tagged as copyvio by a bot [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Achraf_Baznani_(photographer)&oldid=623549412] and the tag has been removed by page creator/significant contributor with no explanation [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Achraf_Baznani_%28photographer%29&diff=623565789&oldid=623550480]
*It has been nominated for speedy because of overtly promotional tone [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Achraf_Baznani_(photographer)&diff=624009171&oldid=623743719], deletion tag has been removed by page creator/significant contributor [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Achraf_Baznani_(photographer)&diff=624069701&oldid=624069616]

Additionally, the sources present on the page do not discuss the subject's life/career in detail but are rather anecdotal. Google search yielded no coverage, and, of particular concern, no mentions on Moroccan media given that the subject is Moroccan. [[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 05:52, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

*'''Important''' please pay attention if [[user:Maromania]] & [[user:Fevrret]] aren't deleting/editing any votes/comments: 
**Restored this comment (below) by me after it has been deleted by [[user:Maromania]] & [[user:Fevrret]] (same person?) [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Achraf_Baznani_%28photographer%29&diff=624339017&oldid=624326657] [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Achraf_Baznani_%28photographer%29&diff=624610271&oldid=624609959]
**Article creator ([[user:Fevrret]]) tried to close this as "non admin closure" before being reveted [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Achraf_Baznani_%28photographer%29&diff=624464804&oldid=624464534] 
**According to the above, and other clues, we may be in a case of [[WP:COI]] or or promotional paid editing --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 06:26, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
*Note there is also [[Through My Lens]] (a book supposedly authored by "Achraf Baznani") which is currently being considered for speedy deletion --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 05:55, 5 September 2014 (UTC) <small>This comment has been deleted by [[user:Maromania]] and restored in this edit</small> --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 06:26, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
<!-----------              ***************              End of Nomination area       **************   ------------------------->  
<!-----comments/votes go below this area not inside of it, as to not disrupt the flow of the discussion (per Wikipedia etiquette) ----->
::Dont lie please! I never delete any of your comments ! [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 09:17, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: ** You [[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] just made an [[WP:CONSPIRACY]], a very serious violation, you (as an contributor) must not do a [[WP:NPA]] to me. You got to be careful before judging without any proofs. I will be having a conversation with an admin about this. [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 19:05, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
:: ** Also, recommend you to [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] for new contributors (as seen [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] is one of them). Stop accusing as we ([[User:Maromania|Maromania]] and [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] just deleted any comment, because what I did was merging Maromania's comment as just one (which was ''keep''). With the [[WP:COI]] you have not proofs, I am just an editor and you made a '''direct offense''' to my being, ''myself''. The non admin disclosure was discussed and I didn't know the existent [[WP:NAC]] and reverted, and apologized to [[User:Crow|Crow]] for this, which he assumed my enthusiasm is great, but I need to know the rules. I will report this case to the ''administrators'' for violating [[WP:CONSPIRACY]], [[WP:AGF]] and [[WP:COI]] without any proofs. [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 19:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

:: Dont lie please, i never delete any comment! [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 09:17, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: I explained that the article was not promotional, and we discussed it over. Also other contributors expressed on the article as not being "promotional". Actually, an admin. The article is covered by major articles. The book [[Through My Lens]] is a book authored by Achraf Baznani. You (Tachfin) do not have any statement to prove wrong. Is currently featured by magazines (hereinbefore mentioned). [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 18:57, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

:: The photobook is a book authored by Achraf Baznani <ref>http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1167269</ref> [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 21:45, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' the article meets [[WP:BASIC]] and have encyclopedia importance. Is supported by third major magazines in English, Spanish, French, Arab. And has an arab wikipedia page approved by admins. [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 18:57, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
::*There is no such thing as "an article approved by admins". I've repeatedly seen that argument being used by paid editors. If there are reliable sources that discuss the subject deeply enough to establish notability than please present them. Mearly anectdoctal mentions and promotional articles on shady websites/blogs does not implicate notability (c.f. [[WP:Artist]]) --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 06:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' I saw this go by on RC, and thought it rang a bell. Sure enough, I have [[Draft:Achraf Baznani]] on my w/l from August 30. It is identical to the initial version of the article now under discussion, which was created a day later by a different editor. [[user:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[user talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>Talk</small></sup></font>]] 19:39, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

:: I never said that I created this article. I just modified it, taking by references the interviews which he is featured on. It's not identical, I modified it. [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 23:49, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Of course, I'm not suggesting any impropriety, more to keep an eye out that there could be multiple copies floating around. If this article is kept, they should be merged into the live copy to avoid having multiple out-of-sync versions, and if this is deleted they should be looked at accordingly. [[user:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[user talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>Talk</small></sup></font>]] 23:58, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Morocco|list of Morocco-related deletion discussions]]. <span style="border:1px solid blue;">[[User:Ascii002|<font style="background:blue" color="white">'''Ascii002'''</font>]][[User talk:Ascii002|'''Talk''']] [[Special:Contributions/Ascii002|'''Contribs''']] [[User:Ascii002/Guestbook|'''GuestBook''']]</span> 02:37, 6 September 2014 (UTC)</small>
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Actors and filmmakers|list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions]]. <span style="border:1px solid blue;">[[User:Ascii002|<font style="background:blue" color="white">'''Ascii002'''</font>]][[User talk:Ascii002|'''Talk''']] [[Special:Contributions/Ascii002|'''Contribs''']] [[User:Ascii002/Guestbook|'''GuestBook''']]</span> 02:37, 6 September 2014 (UTC)</small>
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People|list of People-related deletion discussions]]. <span style="border:1px solid blue;">[[User:Ascii002|<font style="background:blue" color="white">'''Ascii002'''</font>]][[User talk:Ascii002|'''Talk''']] [[Special:Contributions/Ascii002|'''Contribs''']] [[User:Ascii002/Guestbook|'''GuestBook''']]</span> 02:38, 6 September 2014 (UTC)</small>
*'''Keep''' - obviously, yes needs a clean up, but that's not the purpose of AFD. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]])
*: {{replyto|In ictu oculi}}, why keep? could you elaborate please? --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 06:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' I looked at the suggested sources and all that I could see are blog posts (even the CNN one is, and it says: Not verified by CNN). I would suggest getting some more reliable sources. But I do not know what the decision should be about an article in @en.wikipedia if there are no such resources in English. Anyone? [[User:LaMona|LaMona]] ([[User talk:LaMona|talk]]) 15:39, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
:: - LaMona, you can find some reliable sources here: <ref>http://issuu.com/joseantunes/docs/fdjun14web</ref> <ref>http://www.phmag.ca/magazine/imagining-the-impossible/</ref> <ref>http://museemagazine.com/art-2/features/emerging-artist-interview-achraf-baznani/</ref> <ref>http://www.artspace.com/achraf-baznani</ref> <ref>http://getinspiredmagazine.com/featured/achraf-baznani/</ref> <ref>''Interview with Achraf Baznani, Photoshop Creative Magazine'', August 2014, Issue  116, Page 98, ISSN 1747-7816.</ref><ref>''fotoDNG magazine'', Issue  95, Page 77, ISSN 1887-3685.</ref>[[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 20:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Photography|list of Photography-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 00:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC)</small>
* '''Keep''':
# Notable individual showing significant coverage in independent reliable sources (see references). Artspace (one of the top galleries in New York, USA) owns works by Baznani and he has featured magazines and newspapers across the world. [[WP:ARTIST]]. Quite why the nominator thinks that the sources are not independent. 
# You can find more articles and artwork by the artist ({{Find sources|Achraf Baznani}}) ({{Find sources|أشرف بزناني}}) 
# The artist is a famous Moroccan photographer <ref>http://www.ufunk.net/photos/inside-my-dreams/</ref> <ref>http://themoroccanist.com/?p=241</ref><ref>http://eindutzendmedien.de/achraf-baznani-meine-kleine-welt/</ref><ref>''Sayidaty Magazine'' – July 2014 – Issue  1741 - Dubai Emirate</ref> <ref>''Master photography magazine UK'' Pages 38-39-40 – May/June 2014 – Volume 11 Issue 1 - ISSN 2042-0234</ref>
# The artist is moroccan, if you (Tachfin) are moroccan<ref>http://www.baznani.com/about-the-artist/</ref> then you can read some newspapers about him in arabic <ref>http://www.baznani.com/press/</ref><ref>http://www.almaghribtoday.net/fjghygj-gefiskcj-geyqhki/2014-02-24-12-51-56.html{{ar icon}}</ref><ref>http://www.alarabonline.org/?id=26386{{ar icon}}</ref><ref>http://www.alquds.co.uk/?p=170421{{ar icon}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|title=L'expérience photographique d'Achraf Baznani|url=http://www.albayane.press.ma/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22744:de-letrangete-de-la-creation&catid=48:culture&Itemid=123|website=Al Bayane}}{{fr icon}}</ref><ref>http://www.ahdath.info/?p=1086{{ar icon}}</ref> 
# The content of this page <ref>http://www.baznani.com/about-the-artist/</ref> is released under the Creative Commons Zero Waiver 1.0 (CC0). You can copy, modify, distribute and perform the work, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 09:15, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
:*''X is one of the greatest'' is exactly the type of wording that raises red flags here. Links you've provided either: 1. Do not meet Wikipedia definition of [[WP:RS]] (anyone can create a website) 2. Are affiliated with the subject (e.g. Baznani.com) 3. Are anecdotal, insofar as they don't discuss the topic deeply enough. The only exception to this may be this: [http://www.alquds.co.uk/?p=170421 al-Quds] article but it doesn't discuss the subject's life, mearly an interview of some generic stuff about his work, still short of [[WP:artist]] or even [[WP:GNG]]  --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 06:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: Sayidaty magazine talk about the artist Achraf Baznani <ref>http://www.sayidaty.net/en/node/205721</ref> [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 09:37, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: Can you help editing text and words? It will be appreciated. Tachfin. [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 09:03, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. Repeated recreation of overly promotional material to the extent that [[Achraf Baznani]] got salted. Bad Faithed recreation to avoid the salt. [[WP:IAR|Put aside other considerations]] and [[WP:TNT|delete]] this spam, stop rewarding bad faithed editing, deny the spammers the fruits of their labour. [[User:Duffbeerforme|duffbeerforme]] ([[User talk:Duffbeerforme|talk]]) 09:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: This is not promotion, the page is about an Artist Photographer. [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 10:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:::"Achraf Baznani did not realize that he was a born artist until he got a camera as a birthday gift in his teen ages. Like many other great people that have walked the earth, Achraf Baznani also had to know it from within and by chance that he was in fact an artist."  "The surrealist inside him gave the bravery to direct the short film the way that it earned him the Best Director award in more than five different awarding." "The art where it shows him standing in the middle of a chess board is an amazing idea" "the photobook has summarized the human life in very impressive manner." Yep, promotion. [[User:Duffbeerforme|duffbeerforme]] ([[User talk:Duffbeerforme|talk]]) 10:59, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
::: Can you help rewriting this paragraphs? [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 13:54, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
:: The article will be re-written. Please learn how to write properly, it will help Wikipedia and your life. Appreciate it. [[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 10:18, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': As {{replyto|Duffbeerforme}} noted,  [[Achraf Baznani]] has been deleted three times by three different sysops and slated to avoid recreation. There is actually no need to disambiguate the title as in "Achraf Baznani (photographer)" other than to avoid the scrutiny of new page patrolers and "quietly" recreate a 3X deleted article. (also note the existence of [[Achraf baznani]]) --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 05:43, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
: I think [[Achraf baznani]] is redirected to [[Achraf Baznani (photographer)]].[[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 08:30, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
: You [[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]], the first time you dont believe that the photographer Achraf Baznani is Moroccan! Now you believe it! and you dont wont that the page about him was created! May be your are Moroccan too! anyway the artist is very known in your country. [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 08:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
*'''Comment: COI'''. In addition to the copyright problems which caused me to list this article at [[WP:CP]], there seems to be a [[WP:COI]] problem here too:

::[[User:Maromania]] has for some reason chosen as a username the name of the web host of Baznani's site, [http://www.maromania.com/ Maromania]
::[[User:Fevrret]] is apparently well enough acquainted with Baznani to have taken [[:File:Achraf.jpg|this photograph]] of him, in a style very reminiscent of that of the photographer himself.
:[[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 09:09, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

::: The article you tagged as a [[WP:CP]]. is now being re-written on a temp article. --[[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 09:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
::: The photo of the artist is CC as mentionned on this page http://www.baznani.com/about-the-artist/ [[User:Maromania|Maromania]] ([[User talk:Maromania|talk]]) 15:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
::: I have asked for permission to Baznani itself in order to use this photo. ''Making this a neutral point of view, with permission to use the photo''. --[[User:Fevrret|Fevrret]] ([[User talk:Fevrret|talk]]) 09:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Shady behind-the-wiki whatevers aside, I looked through the sources listed. Removing the blogs, the promotional and self-published, and mirrors thereof, we're left with a small group of sources. For the most part, those contain numerous photographs, but only incidental coverage of the person. There are 2 that have the trappings of an interview, but again are superficial (just a question or 2 then a lot of photos). The sources unequivocally prove that A:he exists and B:he makes a lot of cool photographs. But little else to show notability to the level we need. Musee Magazine called him an "Emerging Artist". I think he needs to emerge a bit more to meet requirements here. [[user:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[user talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>Talk</small></sup></font>]] 23:32, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

*Also be aware of the discussion taking place [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=625206587#Civility_Violation here] --[[User:Tachfin|Tachfin]] ([[User talk:Tachfin|talk]]) 07:59, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

==== References ====
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