View source for Talk:Goat cheese

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== Goats' cheese? ==

Where is  '''goats' cheese''' from. I think '''goat's cheese''' is fine but possessive in plural looks really odd. It suggests that you needed to mix milk from different goats to obtain it.[[User:Mikolasj|Mikolasj]] ([[User talk:Mikolasj|talk]]) 09:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

: On a second thought, even '''goat's cheese''' is dubious. I believe that '''goat's milk''' means '''milk from a goat''' but the cheese is not really from the goat (only the milk is).  So '''goat cheese''' is probably the most correct term as it specifies the kind of the cheese. [[User:Mikolasj|Mikolasj]] ([[User talk:Mikolasj|talk]]) 18:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the possessive form is inappropriate. The goat does not own the cheese, neither is the cheese an essential property of the goat, as in "flower's scent." As an amateur goat fromager, I always use the term "goat milk" and "goat milk cheese" instead of the possessive form. — [[User:Bytesmiths|Bytesmiths]] ([[User talk:Bytesmiths|talk]]) 17:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

You misunderstand the apostrophe as used here. It is not possessive but genitive. It has nothing to do with ownership but rather that the cheese pertains to (the milk of) a goat. 'Milk' is understood here but not written. Using 'goat cheese' does not solve the alleged problem, since it can be misinterpreted in exactly the same way - the cheese is not made from a goat nor does the cheese come from the goat!  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Thomani9|Thomani9]] ([[User talk:Thomani9|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Thomani9|contribs]]) 14:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I find the above explanation dubious, but I don't think it'd be beneficial to get into a long debate about grammar. No one is taught linguistics in school, they're taught "grammar" instead so it's hard to have a rational argument on the subject. Instead, can we appeal to precedent? That is, whatever seems to be more logical to you is irrelevant as language isn't logical and doesn't always obey the rules you set up to try to describe it. Instead, I'd rather look at industry documents (FDA, large manufacturers) and use whatever form they use. [[Special:Contributions/72.161.91.140|72.161.91.140]] ([[User talk:72.161.91.140|talk]]) 00:47, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

== Nutritional Information ==

Think we should add some. Apparently chevre is good for people with sensitive stomachs as it is easy to digest. 364 calories per 100 grams. It contains short-chain fatty acids, etc....  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.69.198.244|194.69.198.244]] ([[User talk:194.69.198.244|talk]]) 08:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The article currently contradicts itself
"Although cow's milk and goat's milk have similar overall fat contents"
"Because goat milk is leaner than that of cows, goat cheese tends to be leaner as well"
[[User:Jray14upa|Jray14upa]] ([[User talk:Jray14upa|talk]]) 23:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The section below "China" is wrong regarding fat content. Goat milk will tend to have ''more'' fat that cow milk, but there is greater variation among breeds than there is between cow and goat. For example, a Gurnsey cow will have higher fat milk than a French Alpine goat, but a Nubian goat will have much higher fat content than a Holstein cow. Our Nubians measure out at nearly 8% -- over twice the fat content of standardized cow milk (3%)! — [[User:Bytesmiths|Bytesmiths]] ([[User talk:Bytesmiths|talk]]) 16:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure it was the right template to add, but I just added the advertisement template because this section has an awful lot of unsourced material about how great dairy products are for your health.  It strays pretty far from the topic of goat cheese. [[User:Jrw@pobox.com|John W]] ([[User talk:Jrw@pobox.com|talk]]) 06:03, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

== Article title ==

Is '''goats' cheese''' ''really'' known as "chèvre cheese"? Perhaps this is a United States usage (on a par with the American habit of referring to snails, when eaten, as "escargots")? -- [[User:Picapica|Picapica]] 22:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

:I don't think it's a U.S. usage. Around here, we call it "goats' milk cheese". This probably ought to be disambiguated anyway. There are several cheeses made from goats' milk. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 20:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

::I have often heard goat's milk cheese simply referred to as chevre, although this usage is not as common as "goat cheese."  "Chevre cheese" is never used.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.185.234.24|71.185.234.24]] ([[User talk:71.185.234.24|talk]]) 16:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Why the brand name mentions? ==
It doesn't add anything to the article to name brands of goat cheese in two select countried. 
I don't feel strongly enough about it to change it, though. [[User:TobyCallahan|TobyCallahan]] 02:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


I removed the bit about the USA cheeses.  The other cheeses mentioned are named for their regional characteristics, they are not name brands or specific companies.  The info about Humboldt Fog under the USA was blatant advertising.  If someone has legitimate info about USA goat cheese varieties then they should put up a USA subheading.  --[[User:K 10|K 10]] 23:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The Humboldt Fog add is still there.  We should be frank, the USA has done nothing inovative in regards to Goats cheese. There are great makers but nothing new.  J
:The US' main innovation in cheese is to bulk it up with wood pulp. [[Special:Contributions/194.207.86.26|194.207.86.26]] ([[User talk:194.207.86.26|talk]]) 15:50, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

== WikiProject class rating==
This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. [[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 03:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

== ADVERTISEMENT ==
This article reads like a frickin' advertisement.  Somebody please edit the crap out of it please!!!

I removed all the text that I could immediately identify as plagiarism from the International Dairy Farmers' Association.  I suspect there may be more plagiarism present, but with everyone and their cousin aggregating Wikipedia content, it's hard to tell where the circle of quotations starts.  I also removed a link from the reference section that had no non-advertising point. - [[User:PianoDan|PianoDan]] ([[User talk:PianoDan|talk]]) 19:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

== Requested move ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the proposal was '''move per request'''.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 23:22, 22 March 2011 (UTC) 
:Follow-up note: already moved by another without closing this discussion, and without doing any of the required cleanup.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 23:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
----
[[Goat milk cheese]] → {{no redirect|1=Goat cheese}} — By an enormous margin, the overwhelmingly more common term for the cheese. Hits at least four of the five criteria at [[WP:MOSNAME]], with the sole possible exception of "precision", though there is no plausible concern that many people would think "goat cheese" is made of goats rather than goats' milk. --<sup><small><font color="green">[[User talk:Bongomatic|Bongo]]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">[[Special:Contributions/Bongomatic|matic]]</font></small></sub> 01:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
*{{green|'''Support'''}} Clearly [[WP:COMMONNAME|most common name]].  Also more natural and concise (per [[WP:TITLE]]) and no less [[WP:PRECISION|precise]].  Finally, it's obviously the [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] which is confirmed by the fact that [[Goat cheese]] already redirects here.   --[[User:Born2cycle|Born2cycle]] ([[User talk:Born2cycle|talk]]) 01:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per all of the above. –[[User:CWenger|CWenger]] ([[User talk:CWenger|talk]]) 02:15, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Goat cheese seems to be the most common name, but that's because it is most common in the United States. In the UK it is usually known as goat's cheese, although it is occasionally referred to as goat cheese. Goat milk cheese, or goat's milk cheese, is a less common name. "Goat cheese" is preferred, either as the most common name, or (if different varieties of English are relevant) as the article is written in American English. [[User:Peter E. James|Peter E. James]] ([[User talk:Peter E. James|talk]]) 10:57, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - "goat cheese"?  That would be cheese made out of goats! [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 18:40, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
::I think the average person would realize that Goat Cheese is not made from Goats even if we use the proposed term. I don't think we should avoid using Goat Cheese any more that we should not use the term head cheese on the grounds that people may think that it is cheese made from heads.--[[Special:Contributions/76.66.189.59|76.66.189.59]] ([[User talk:76.66.189.59|talk]]) 21:47, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
::If the above comment is intended to be ironic, could the commentator please strike through the opinion? If not, the reasoning is fallacious for several reasons. First, grammatically, a noun followed by another noun doesn't always denote an instance of the latter made from the former (a "desk lamp" is not a lamp made out of a desk)&mdash;any number of relationships between the two nouns may be in evidence. Second, "goat cheese" means cheese made out of goats' milk, parsing aside. A quick review of cookbooks, websites, or any literature that touches on the subject will establish this immediately. <sup><small><font color="green">[[User talk:Bongomatic|Bongo]]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">[[Special:Contributions/Bongomatic|matic]]</font></small></sub> 01:13, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

:::So you assume that I am making a facetious comment just because I disagree?  I have heard the term "Goat's cheese" in the UK, but never "Goat cheese".  And I have never heard of "head cheese either". [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 15:52, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::::I made no such assumption&mdash;I thought it was a possibility given how uninformed was the proffered opinion. Wikipedia's content and style is based on verifiable facts and usage, not on any editor's personal experience. I determined what phrase was most prevalent by doing Google book searches&mdash;not a perfect methodology, but one that establishes without any doubt the result. It is also a methodology that would reveal the meaning of (and prevalence of the term) "head cheese". <sup><small><font color="green">[[User talk:Bongomatic|Bongo]]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">[[Special:Contributions/Bongomatic|matic]]</font></small></sub> 17:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::By the way, what you call "head cheese" ''is'' made of heads. [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 18:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
::::::Yes, but it's not cheese, yet [[Head cheese]] remains the title. <p>Bongomatic is correct.  Any argument in opposition to this move based on "''I'' never heard of it" or "'goat cheese' would be 'cheese made out of goats'" should be discounted not because it is an oppose, but because the oppose is based on a JDLI argument; see [[WP:JDLI#Title_discussions]].  --[[User:Born2cycle|Born2cycle]] ([[User talk:Born2cycle|talk]]) 22:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::::I'm afraid you're missing the point.  The user who was actually discussing this with me argued about the use of "goat" as an adjective - the discussion had nothing to do with the noun "cheese". [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 12:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

::::::::There is nothing wrong with using "goat" as a [[noun adjunct]].    --[[User:Born2cycle|Born2cycle]] ([[User talk:Born2cycle|talk]]) 17:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

*'''Support''' although "Goats' cheese" might be slightly better as a more natural term. [[Special:Contributions/86.6.193.43|86.6.193.43]] ([[User talk:86.6.193.43|talk]]) 23:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

== Questionable edits excluding Israel ==

In these edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&diff=646664846&oldid=643398854][https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&diff=646685415&oldid=646675643] two users (or possibly the same user) seem to be excluding Israel from the list of cheeses. In [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&oldid=643398854#Israel the previous version of this article] Israel had its own heading, with [[labneh]] being listed underneath. In [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&diff=646664846&oldid=643398854 the first change of this information], Tonychakar changes the heading to a range of nations, none of which include Israel, though the nations surround Israel. This looks very much like a POV edit. Since I do not think in any way that Israel is the origin nation of labneh, or that they are the only nation that uses labneh, I [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&diff=next&oldid=646664846 changed the heading to Eastern Mediterranean] to be more inclusive of all nations. (I still question whether any one nation can be credited with labneh) In [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Goat_cheese&diff=next&oldid=646675643 the second change] by IP 178.135.194.237, the heading was changed to The Levant, with choice nations being added to the heading as a parenthetical. Again, Israel is not included. These seem like unnecessary changes that don't provide an accurate representation of where labneh is used. For these reasons, I have reverted to a more general regional heading. [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 19:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


== Proposed merge of [[Properties, fabrication and specificities of goat cheese]] ==

Two pages on the same topic, with overlapping content. [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 20:42, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== External links modified ==

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== Goat cheese processing, regulations and food microbiology  ==

Hello, 
We are a group of university students who would like to explore the processing, regulations and food microbiology as they pertain to goat cheese. If you would like to contribute some information, these are a few of the questions we will be answering.
1) How is goat cheese made and what are the processing steps necessary for proper/safe storage and/or packaging?
2) What kind of microorganism are likely to grow in goat cheese and how do we prevent their growth? 
3) What diseases can be passed on from the animal to human consumers?
4) What are the Canadian regulations?

Here are the sources we will be using:
-Buffa, M., et al. “Microbiological Changes throughout Ripening of Goat Cheese Made from Raw, Pasteurized and High-Pressure-Treated Milk.” Food Microbiology, vol. 18, no. 1, 2001, pp. 45–51.
-how it's made
-http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._870/page-40.html#h-71
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._870/page-44.html#docCont
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._870/page-43.html#docCont

-Högberg, M., et al. "Milk Processing Quality of suckled/milked Goats: Effects of Milk Accumulation Interval and Milking Regime." The Journal of Dairy Research, vol. 83, no. 2, 2016, pp. 173-179.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Zhinazl2|Zhinazl2]] ([[User talk:Zhinazl2#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zhinazl2|contribs]]) 19:06, 26 July 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Food science course at UBC==
Hello Fellow Wikipedia editors,

On behalf of my fellow student team enrolled in an introductory food science course at UBC, we would like to use our newly learned food science knowledge to enhance this article on Goat Cheese. In particular, we are interested in exploring and contributing to processing, nutrition and health, and a bit about Canada. We will continue to post our outlines and drafts on this sandbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vickypeng23/sandbox. We welcome all comments and feedback. We look forward to contributing to Wikipedia via this course assignment.

Signed,
Vicky Peng
Vivia Ding
Morton Chen
Robert Hechler
Nik Trifonov <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vickypeng23|Vickypeng23]] ([[User talk:Vickypeng23#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vickypeng23|contribs]]) 17:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)</small>
:{{ping|Vickypeng23}} Hi there and welcome. Best of luck in your project. We'd love to see references as well, so please be sure to see [[WP:REFB|Referencing for Beginners]]. There is a built-in tool in the editing window under Cite that makes it easy to cite stuff. Of lesser importance, please note that new comments go at the bottom of the page, and if you would please sign your posts with four [[tilde]]s like <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> it will append your signature and a time stamp like this: → [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 17:57, 30 July 2019 (UTC)