View source for Talk:1954 FIFA World Cup

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== Requested move ==

Football World Cup 1954 → 1954 FIFA World Cup – following the consensus of naming the World Cup articles as FIFA World Cup in Wikipedia, and consistency of naming the major international football tournaments.

Discuss here: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles]].  --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 10:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

: Moved per [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles|consensus]].  --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 13:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

== Uncited section ==

''This world cup has been subject to controversy when Hungarian superstar Puskás claimed that after entering the German lockerroom after the match he found many of them vomiting. The proceeding months saw many of them also develop [[jaundice]]. In 2004 a lockerroom attendant uncoverred that he found syringes in the German room after the match, aiding the doping allegations.''

How does a 2004 locker room attendant contribute to the controversy 50 years after the fact? Furthermore, do we have any sources for this? I've removed the statement until we can get some sources. [[User:IanManka|Ian Manka]] <small>[[User talk:IanManka|Talk to me!]]</small> 06:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

:: That paragraph you eliminated seems to be bad English from a native Hungarian speaker. He must have meant: "In 2004 a[ onetime] lockerroom attendant revealed...". The source is certainly the 2004 documentary on German public channel ZDF, which I mention with link in the edit inserted today.

:: I leave it to someone else to re-insert these three sentences after correction. [[User:Rontombontom|Rontombontom]] ([[User talk:Rontombontom|talk]]) 12:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Play-offs ==

This article doesn't mention play-offs between equally ranked teams, as they just used points and didn't factor in goal difference. Turkey was 2nd and West Germany was 3rd in the group stage, and West Germany progressed after a play-off.
:Germany had beaten Turkey in the first game, and after German coach Herberger had sent in the backups to collect the expected loss against Hungary while Turkey outscored the helpless Koreans, they were tied for 2nd by points. That's why a playoff was needed, which the Germans won again with ease. --&nbsp;[[User:Matthead|Matthead]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Matthead|<sup>discuß!</sup>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;[[EU|<span style="color:#ffff00;background:#0000cc;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp; &nbsp; 06:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:1954 Football World Cup poster.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:1954 Football World Cup poster.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:1954 Football World Cup poster.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->

[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 04:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

== Dead link ==

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

* http://www.broadview.tv/Das-Wunder-von-Bern-Die-wahre-Geschichte.63.0.html
** In [[1954 FIFA World Cup]] on 2011-05-25 03:31:39, 404 Not Found
** In [[1954 FIFA World Cup]] on 2011-06-04 17:58:23, 404 Not Found

--[[User:JeffGBot|JeffGBot]] ([[User talk:JeffGBot|talk]]) 17:58, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

== Dead link 2 ==

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

* http://www.ndrtv.de/kulturreport/traumavonbern.html
** In [[1954 FIFA World Cup]] on 2011-05-25 03:31:39, 404 Not Found
** In [[1954 FIFA World Cup]] on 2011-06-04 17:58:34, 404 Not Found

--[[User:JeffGBot|JeffGBot]] ([[User talk:JeffGBot|talk]]) 17:58, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

== Seeding inconsistencies ==

How is it possible that Switzerland was an unseeded team, and still put into Pot 1, as is claimed in the "Seeding" section?  With the strange format for this tournament I suppose it is somehow possible to be both seeded and unseeded, but could someone describe how? :)  [[User:Fomalhaut76|Fomalhaut76]] ([[User talk:Fomalhaut76|talk]]) 21:05, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
: It's four years already with this table in the article, that seems to be wrong and unsourced:
{| class="wikitable" style="width:98%;"
|-
!width=25%| Pot 1
!width=25%| Pot 2
!width=25%| Pot 3
!width=25%| Pot 4
|- 
| valign="top"|
*{{fb|SUI}} (hosts)
*{{fb|URU}} (title holder)
*{{fb|BRA|1889}} (previous runners-up)
*{{fb|HUN|1949}} ([[Football at the 1952 Summer Olympics|Olympic]] gold medalists)
| valign="top"|
*{{fb|AUT}}
*{{fb|ENG}}
*{{fb|FRG}}
*{{fb|YUG}}
| valign="top"|
*{{fb|FRA}}
*{{fb|ITA|1946}}
*{{fb|TCH}}
*{{fb|TUR}}
| valign="top"|
*{{fb|BEL}}
*{{fb|MEX|1934}}
*{{fb|KOR|1949}}
*{{fb|SCO}}
|}

: The table is clearly not correct, as mentioned above. It looks like England was in fact seeded in Pot 1 instead of Switzerland, and Pot 2 included: Austria, France, Italy and Turkey. Pot 3 seem to contain: Switzerland, Germany, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. --[[User:Jakas1|Jakas1]] ([[User talk:Jakas1|talk]]) 09:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

== FIFA retrospective ranking ==

It's not clear what this table represents. Some of the teams listed only list group play (two games played) while others list the entire tournament. What should be displayed here? [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 02:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

== German Spelling ==

The logo is being used as proof that the German spelling should be "''Fussball-Weltmeisterschaft 1954''" rather than "''Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft 1954''". They're orthographically identical, but there are stylistic reasons why one may have been used over the other. The letter in question, "[[;ß]]", is a German consonant. There was an orthographic reform that started in 1996 to remove it and replace it with a double s. So technically, in current spelling the word would be "''fussball''", but in 1956, it would have been "''fußball''". The German article uses the formal spelling as well: [[:de:Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft 1954]]. The German article uses both spellings: the modern when discussing the logo, the latter when discussing the sport. The references on the site use both spellings. We should use the formal spelling not the stylized spelling. [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 11:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
:But this World Cup was held in Switzerland, not Germany, so different language rules may have been applied there at the time. Furthermore, we have official documents (assuming you can call a logo an official document) that state that the spelling used in Switzerland at the time was "Fussball". Germany may have only started to move away from the "ess-tset" [[grapheme]] in 1996, but Switzerland may have started a long time ago. Either that or FIFA just decided to use "Fussball" as a move towards internationalisation for the tournament. Whatever the case, we don't know what the rationale was at the German Wikipedia for using "Fußball", but I think we're grown up enough here to make up our own minds and not simply follow the herd. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 13:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::Just thought I'd throw this out there: [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/switzerland-v-england-1954-world-cup-/311081998881?pt=UK_Sports_Memorabilia_Football_Programmes_ET&hash=item486dee9a21] That is an eBay listing for an official match programme from the 1954 World Cup. If you zoom in on it (in the top-left corner), you can see that it says "Fussball-Weltmeisterschaft 1954". Is that enough? – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 14:06, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::: Interesting point, but you're confusing stylization and spelling. Unlike English, there are no spelling variations between the various forms of German. There are differences in pronunciation and vocabulary, but not spelling. There are stylistic reasons for using one form of spelling over the other, but it's not a difference in spelling. In other words, in English words can be spelled differently based on the national language variation. In Canada and the United States, what I wrote there is correct. However in England, Scotland, Australia and other nations I have "spellt" it incorrectly. That's not the case in German. In 1954 both spellings would have been understood, while ''fußball'' would have been preferred and ''fussball'' would have been accepted. Today, it's the reverse.
::: All logos that I have seen used the stylized version (''fussball'') but that doesn't mean it's the official Swiss spelling. Since the German-language Wiki uses ''fußball'', we should rely on their spelling not our opinion. [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 14:48, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::Why should we rely on their spelling? Where are the sources that the competition was ever referred to as "Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft" in German? It may have been a stylistic choice, it may not, but you're claiming that we should use a spelling that isn't supported by sources. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 15:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::: The reason is not the different spelling rules in the countries. The reason is because of the rules of the [[Capital ẞ]]. 1954 there was no upper case form. So it is "Fußball" vs. "FUSSBALL". --[[User:Micha|Micha]] 15:17, 10 September 2014 (UTC) 
::::: Ps. in 1954 in Switzerland the "ß" was also used. [[Neue Zürcher Zeitung]] of 1954, bottom right corner: "Die Fußballweltmeisterschaft 1954". [http://static.nzz.ch/files/2/3/8/WM+Bern+Er%C3%B6ffnungszeremonie+NZZ+17_1.18317238.6_1.18317238.1954+reduziert_1.18317238.pdf] --[[User:Micha|Micha]] 15:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::: @Walter: By the way ß is not used anymore in Switzerland. There are differnces in spelling today and that aren't only stylish reasons. Today "Fussballweltmeisterschaft" ist the only used correct spelling in Switzerland in print media and in schools. Ex. [http://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/teures-erbe-der-fussball-wm-2010-1.18328736] In Germany "Fussballweltmeisterschaft" is a spelling mistake. But this is today. Nowadays in Switzerland "ß" is avoided and will be replaced for print media. In Germany the "ß" it is still used and nowadays there exists a capital letter which is mandatory. In 1954 the spelling rules in Switzerland and Germany were the same. --[[User:Micha|Micha]] 16:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::: Maybe it would be good to understand how we solve that problem in the german Wikipedia: If something is a only swiss topic than the "ß" are not used and it follows the spelling rules and the orthographic rules of Switzerland ([[Swiss Standard German]]). If it is a topic which is not only Swiss or it is not a national topic at all the article follows the orthographic rules of Germany. For example [[:de:Alexander Frei]] is a swiss player for the swiss national team so he is a "Fussballspieler". We also put <nowiki><!--schweizbezogen--></nowiki> in the source code for everybody to understand, that "Fussball" is not a spelling mistake there. But the World Cup is not a national topic it is an international event and that is the reason that it is called in the german Wikipedia "Fußballweltmeisterschaft 1954". --[[User:Micha|Micha]] 16:35, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::: Short explanation: A swiss writes nowadays "Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1954"/"FUSSBALLWELTMEISTERSCHAFT 1954" and that is the correct form in Swiss Standard German. [http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/schweiz/start-zur-fussball-wm-1954--live-aus-lausanne-1.18318457] The germans write nowadays "Fußballweltmeisterschaft 1954"/"FUẞBALLWELTMEISTERSCHFT 1954" and only that is correct. [http://www.dafkurse.de/lernwelt/ereignisse/wm54/weltmeister.htm] In 1954 both, swiss people and germans, wrote "Fußballweltmeisterschaft 1954"/"FUSSBALLWELTMEISTERSCHAFT 1954" and that was the only correct writing. --[[User:Micha|Micha]] 16:53, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::That's really interesting, Micha, thanks. I guess that settles that. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 17:35, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

== Linguistic/Spelling Issue ==

There are two spellings for the city (and one would assume canton) of [[Bern]] in this article. When referring to the venue and the "Miracle of Bern" final, the spelling is standard German--Bern. The fractious quarter-final match is referred to as "The Battle of '''Berne'''"--using the French spelling. Given the German character of the area and the spelling throughout the rest of the article--and the Wikipedia article for the city, I'm going to change the "Battle" article to "The Battle of Bern," and harmonize this article. The editor who created the "Battle" article has been inactive for six years, though I will send him a pro forma notification with rationale. [[User:Tapered|Tapered]] ([[User talk:Tapered|talk]]) 21:35, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
:Discovered the reason for the foul-up--FIFA refers to the "Battle of '''Berne'''" at its website. Their choice of spelling is no reason for Wikipedia to be inconsistent. [[User:Tapered|Tapered]] ([[User talk:Tapered|talk]]) 21:55, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
::Not going to do this. The spelling has been enshrined by the British press, as per google search. [[User:Tapered|Tapered]] ([[User talk:Tapered|talk]]) 04:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

== Section title change ==

Hi there everyone. I recently changed a subheading from 'Results' to 'Notable results'. Sometimes, when I'm quickly copying down Wikipedia data for a spreadsheet, I will just change the URL so I quickly get to the results section (i.e. I would change from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'''1958'''_FIFA_World_Cup#Results to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'''1962'''_FIFA_World_Cup#Results). However, since there were two subheadings with the name of 'Results' on this page, it redirected me to the first one, which didn't have the comprehensive results like others did. I changed it. Just letting you all know. [[User:Nick F., Toaster|Nick F., Toaster]] ([[User talk:Nick F., Toaster|talk]]) 01:12, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== South Korea was in this world cup? ==

South Korea first qualify for the world cup in 1986. I heard a story from a famous Thai who was one of the first foreigner soccer player in Korean league. [[Special:Contributions/124.122.193.22|124.122.193.22]] ([[User talk:124.122.193.22|talk]]) 18:43, 21 January 2022 (UTC)