View source for Talk:1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens

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{{Article history
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|action1date=19:04, 4 Aug 2004
|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens
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|currentstatus=FA
|maindate=September 13, 2004
|dykentry=...that the '''[[1980 Mount St. Helens eruption]]''' in [[Washington]] was the first major [[volcano|volcanic]] eruption to occur in the [[United States|U.S.]] since the [[1915]] eruption of [[Lassen Peak]] in [[California]]?
|dykdate=24 May 2004
|otd1date=2005-05-18|otd1oldid=16335213
|otd2date=2006-05-18|otd2oldid=53923343
|otd3date=2007-05-18|otd3oldid=131650248
|otd4date=2008-05-18|otd4oldid=213237729
|otd5date=2009-05-18|otd5oldid=290711144
|otd6date=2010-05-18|otd6oldid=362907925
|otd7date=2013-05-18|otd7oldid=555682310
|otd8date=2020-05-18|otd8oldid=957041591
|otd9date=2021-05-18|otd9oldid=1023657948
}}
{{refideas|[https://www.fema.gov/sites/default/files/2020-08/StHelens_Final_Remix.mp3 ''FEMA.gov'' - Audio recording]
|[https://www.historylink.org/File/22950 ''HistoryLink'' - Mount St. Helens After the Eruption]}}

== Photographic and video record ==
:This needs to be referenced before being put back into the article. --[[user:mav|mav]] ([[User:Mav/Reviews|reviews&nbsp;needed]]) 02:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
{{Unreferenced section|date=December 2011}}
The eruption of Mount St. Helens on May 18, 1980 was also one of the most well documented volcanic eruptions in recorded history. It is also one of very few major volcanic eruptions ever to be recorded on film at the moment of eruption. Early that morning at around 3&nbsp;a.m. local time, [[KOMO-TV]] news photographer Dave Crockett had left Seattle in a KOMO-TV news car bound for a lookout on the South Fork of the Toutle River where news crews had been stationed previously. At a campground {{convert|10|mi|km}} away to the northeast, amateur photographer [[Gary Rosenquist]] as well as University of Washington graduate student Keith Ronnholm had been waiting. In the air directly above the volcano, geologists Keith and Dorothy Stoffel had chartered a Cessna aircraft from Yakima to do some photographic documentation of the summit bulge. To the west near the South Fork Toutle River, [[Amateur radio|ham radio]] operators Ty and Mariana Kearney were stationed at a lookout point monitoring the activity for an emergency radio network.

At the moment of eruption, Gary Rosenquist was alerted to the volcano by a few members of his camping party and began firing off the first of a 24-frame sequence that clearly illustrated the landslide and beginning moments of the lateral blast and simultaneously doing so was Keith Ronnholm a few feet away. At the same time, Ty and Mariana Kearney were photographing it from the west side, as well as Keith and Dorothy Stoffel from the air. Arriving also at the moment of eruption was KOMO News photographer Dave Crockett. As the ash cloud loomed overhead and continued to spread out, a lahar coming down the South Fork Toutle River blocked his path of escape. He then got out of the car and began filming the eruption's ash column as well as the lightning and the lahars. As the cloud began darkening the sky he began a trek up a logging road and turned the camera on once again, this time narrating his video in what was recorded as a "death march." The video, of which 11&nbsp;minutes is recorded in total darkness, was played out on newscasts worldwide.

Several other photographers perished during the blast. [[Reid Blackburn]], photographer for ''[[The Columbian]]'' and monitor for the United States Geological Survey, was killed at his campsite, eight miles (13&nbsp;km) from the volcano. He took several photos, but the film was destroyed by the pyroclastic flows. [[Robert Landsberg]] (spelled Landsburg in some accounts) succumbed to the eruption, but managed to secure his camera film; though damaged by the eruption, his photos—depicting the advancing pyroclastic surge—were processed and published in ''National Geographic'' magazine in 1981.

== In the news ==
NASA’s Earth Observatory published a [http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=85880 report] on the occasion of the 35th anniversary of the eruption. All media included in the report and the report itself are in the public domain. --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar|talk]]) 04:39, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Two questions about the people who died:

1) Four people died indirectly from the eruption: one in a plane crash caused by ash-induced poor visibility, one in a car crash also caused by poor visibility, and two from heart attacks caused by shoveling ash. [http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/what-were-effects-people-when-mt-st-helens-erupted]  Should they be added to the death toll, or otherwise mentioned in the article? 

2) There's some belief that the official death toll of 57 is not accurate.  ''[[The Columbian]]'' and ''[http://tdn.com The Daily News Online]'' mentions that two victims, Paul Hiatt and Dale Thayer, may have escaped the eruption and been found alive later, and remain listed only because the government can't completely prove they're the ones of those names who were reported missing. [http://tdn.com/news/mountain-mystery-some-wonder-if-fewer-people-died-in-eruption/article_0ef336b0-fb03-5958-b718-a2fab7cac17c.html] ''The Columbian'' also mentions three missing people—Robert Ruffle, Steven Whitsett, and Mark Melanson—that [[Cowlitz County, Washington]] lists as possibly but not officially killed in the eruption. [http://media.columbian.com/enwiki/static/columbian/images/flatpage/msh/msh-victims.swf] Should these two differences of opinion be noted? [[Special:Contributions/71.226.144.42|71.226.144.42]] ([[User talk:71.226.144.42|talk]]) 04:17, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
:No problem so long as we word it along of the lines of that the death toll is not precisely know however.....and then add the information.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 06:45, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
::The four "ash victims" have been mentioned.  Not sure where I should put the info on the disputed death toll. [[Special:Contributions/68.156.95.34|68.156.95.34]] ([[User talk:68.156.95.34|talk]]) 07:51, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
::OK, tell me how this sounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_eruption_of_Mount_St._Helens#Disputed_death_toll  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.156.95.34|68.156.95.34]] ([[User talk:68.156.95.34|talk]]) 09:51, 10 December 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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== Direct results: amount of reduction in height ==

This is an excellent article, my congratulations to head editors!
At chapter [[1980_eruption_of_Mount_St._Helens#Direct_results]] i found the fact that Mt. St. Helens' summit had been reduced by about 1280 feet (390 m). When comparing the volcanoe's pre-eruptive height of 9677' (2949.5 m) with the post-erutive one of 8363' (2549 m), the resulting difference is 1314' (400.5 m). Data are taken from [[Mount_St._Helens]] Maybe this could be added to the chapter with remark of divergent data concerning loss of height. I do not attend to modify this myself, as being neither familiar with this science, nor being a native speaker. Kind greetings to all! Stamnariophilus 08:08, 5 October 2018 (UTC)  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Stamnaria0568|Stamnaria0568]] ([[User talk:Stamnaria0568#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stamnaria0568|contribs]]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:: Thanks for reporting the different heights in the two articles. I have added a "contradictory" tag to this article to draw more attention to this. [[User:GeoWriter|GeoWriter]] ([[User talk:GeoWriter|talk]]) 16:00, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

== Direct results: area of ashfall ==

Can some clearer definition of the ashfall zone be given?  At one place, it states that detectable levels of ash covered 22,000 square miles, a fraction of the size of Washington state.  The map shows ashfall half-way across the Northern United States, maybe half a million square miles.  And I personally remember living on the East Coast, almost 3,000 miles away, and having our playground equipment covered in tiny round balls of ash, almost resembling earthworm detritus.[[Special:Contributions/2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454]] ([[User talk:2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|talk]]) 15:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Semi Protection ==

Would anybody object to this article being semi protected? It seems that just about all edits to this article are vandalism and reverting of vandalism. [[User:TornadoLGS|TornadoLGS]] ([[User talk:TornadoLGS|talk]]) 20:16, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

== Since 1915 or... ==

The article states "The eruption was the most significant to occur in the contiguous 48 U.S. states since the much smaller 1915 eruption of Lassen Peak in California". But in that case, it was the most significant for a longer time. Indeed, as I cannot find evidence of larger eruptions, I am changing the text. [[User:KarlFrei|KarlFrei]] ([[User talk:KarlFrei|talk]]) 06:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

:Never mind, I just read the next sentence :-) Removed some vandalism anyway. [[User:KarlFrei|KarlFrei]] ([[User talk:KarlFrei|talk]]) 06:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

== Victims ==

Here is a table of victims sorted by their distance away from the eruption.  Feel free to include it in the article.  I found this geographic data while trying to determine where [[Robert Landsburg]] was when he took his photos that were published in National Geographic.

Sources:  
* http://www.tdn.com/app/helens/victims.php, which appears to be based on the same data as
* https://www.columbian.com/news/2010/may/18/interactive-map-mount-st-helens-eruption-victims/ (https://pcdn.columbian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Picture_14.png), which is expressly sourced from
* Richard B. Waitt/USGS
* Ray Blaisdell/Skamania County Sheriffs Office
* Cowlitz County Emergency Service Management

{| class="wikitable"
! Miles from Eruption (46.201016,-122.187067) || Latitude || Longitude ||  Number of Victims || Names
|-
| 3.4 || 46.243375 || -122.152176 || 1 || Bruce Faddis
|-
| 3.6 || 46.251922 || -122.174149 || 2 || Bob Kasewater and Beverly Wetherald
|-
| 3.7 || 46.218675 || -122.260666 || 3 || Day, Andy and Michael Karr
|-
| 4.1 || 46.256195 || -122.158356 || 1 || Harry Truman
|-
| 4.5 || 46.221352 || -122.275772 || 1 || Robert Landsburg
|-
| 5.8 || 46.234826 || -122.299118 || 1 || James Fitzgerald
|-
| 6.6 || 46.29161 || -122.229855 || 1 || David Johnston
|-
| 6.8 || 46.241 || -122.316284 || 1 || Don Selby
|-
| 6.9 || 46.295112 || -122.233887 || 2 || Jim and Kathleen Pluard
|-
| 7.2 || 46.253346 || -122.318344 || 1 || Paul Schmidt
|-
| 7.8 || 46.313138 || -122.200928 || 1 || Gerry Martin
|-
| 8 || 46.290842 || -122.291565 || 1 || Reid Blackburn
|-
| 8.7 || 46.309344 || -122.095184 || 3 || Don, Natalie and Rick Parker
|-
| 8.8 || 46.327839 || -122.211227 || 2 || Bill and Jean Parker
|-
| 9.2 || 46.133567 || -122.0224 || 2 || Jim and Velvet Tute
|-
| 9.2 || 46.326416 || -122.251053 || 1 || Christy Killian
|-
| 9.4 || 46.324994 || -122.266159 || 1 || John Killian
|-
| 9.9 || 46.341587 || -122.231827 || 1 || Robert Lynds
|-
| 10.1 || 46.299856 || -122.343063 || 2 || Jolene and Arlene Edwards
|-
| 10.7 || 46.331632 || -122.308731 || 4 || Barbara, Ronald, Michelle and Kevin Seibold
|-
| 10.9 || 46.286097 || -122.378082 || 2 || Eleanor and Ed Murphy
|-
| 11 || 46.352015 || -122.110977 || 1 || Allen Handy
|-
| 11.3 || 46.306023 || -122.368469 || 2 || Harold and Joyce Kirkpatrick
|-
| 11.3 || 46.354384 || -122.270279 || 2 || Wally Bowers and Tom Gadwa
|-
| 12.1 || 46.373338 || -122.231827 || 2 || Shirley and Jerome Moore
|-
| 12.2 || 46.354858 || -122.063599 || 1 || Ron Conner
|-
| 12.7 || 46.297959 || -122.413788 || 2 || Leonty Skorohodoff and Jose Dias
|-
| 13.2 || 46.390864 || -122.218781 || 2 || Terry Crall and Karen Varner
|-
| 13.6 || 46.302228 || -122.430267 || 1 || Evlanty Sharipoff
|-
| 14.9 || 46.311715 || -122.455673 || 1 || Klaus Zimmerman
|-
| 15.3 || 46.407438 || -122.071838 || 1 || Clyde Croft
|-
| 16 || 46.315983 || -122.477646 || 2 || Fred and Marjory Rollins
|-
| 16.4 || 46.370495 || -122.428207 || 1 || Keith Moore
|-
| 26.2 || 46.351067 || -122.691879 || 1 || Joel Colten
|}

[[User:JonathanFreed|JonathanFreed]] ([[User talk:JonathanFreed|talk]]) 19:48, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

== Largest landslide? ==

The [[1888 Ritter Island tsunami]] is said by that article to have been twice as large. What gives?—[[User:Jasper Deng|Jasper Deng]] [[User talk:Jasper Deng|(talk)]] 19:36, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
:<small>I've fixed the wikilink, hope that's ok</small>
:The cited source states "The collapse of the north flank produced the largest landslide-debris avalanche recorded in historic time." I couldn't find the size of the Ritter Island event in the source cited in that article, but it seems to be a widely held view. However, a more recent review of the landslide deposit ([http://oceanrep.geomar.de/46295/1/JK_Ritter-Collapse_accepted.pdf Karstens et al. 2019]) suggest that it wasn't necessarily bigger than the Mount St Helens collapse, as the estimated size of the deposit probably incorporated a large amount of existing seafloor sediment "By distinguishing between gradual deformation and catastrophic failure, the volume of the rapidly moving phase of the Ritter collapse (2.4 km3) may have been even smaller than the 2.7 km3 calculated for the 1980 Mount St. Helens sector collapse using a similar approach (Moore et al., 1981), which questions whether the 1888 Ritter sector collapse should be classified as the largest historic sector collapse." [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 23:06, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

It's the largest landslide in modern recorded history. Also the largest landslide ever to be recorded. [[User:Spiel|Spiel]] ([[User talk:Spiel|talk]]) 03:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

== school work for those ==

Use this for a project if needed [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB|2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB|talk]]) 17:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

== HOW MANY WERE INJURED OR HOW DID THIS AFFECT THE WORLD ==

I have no clue how many people got injured or what happend to  the  world.[[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB|2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C7:8F99:DE01:F5D8:F8A1:7010:CAEB|talk]]) 17:37, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

:I've changed your question to lower case from your original capitals, as people fine them harder to read. The number of injured does not appear to have been definitively recorded. The USGS [https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/msh/impact.html "Impact and aftermath" webpage] just says "scores of injuries" with no details, while [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1651693/pdf/amjph00276-0032.pdf Bernstein et al. (1996)] state that there were 12 injuries amongst survivors in the "damaged areas", while outside the "tree destruction zone" there were two deaths but all the survivors "escaped without serious injury". The USGS "Impact and aftermath" does not record any impacts outside the vicinity of the volcano. Significant ashfall was mostly confined to Washington state. [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

==Map==

Did the ash fall really miraculously stop at the US-Canada border? Amazing. --[[Special:Contributions/24.76.103.169|24.76.103.169]] ([[User talk:24.76.103.169|talk]]) 20:17, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
: No it did not just stop at the border, the map is specifically showing ash fall amounts within the United States, and not outside of it. 🌀[[User:CycloneFootball71|Cyclone]][[User talk:CycloneFootball71|'''Football''']][[Special:Contributions/CycloneFootball71|''71'']]🏈 |'''[[User:CycloneFootball71/sandbox|sandbox]]'''  01:21, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

== Map ==

I question the validity of the US map of ash distribution. I have several friends from Portland, OR who dealt with the ash fallout, but the map does not include them. [[User:Spiel|Spiel]] ([[User talk:Spiel|talk]]) 03:15, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

:{{Ping|Spiel}} I believe the US map is specifically for the May 18th eruption and measured fallout from that specific eruption event, which would have missed Portland due to the prevailing winds at that time. I do know that Portland experienced ash fallout too, but it was from prior eruptions and also from subsequent eruptions of a smaller scale, which carried the ash there, Despite this map showing the fallout for the May 18th eruption, I still somewhat question its validity as well, I know several people  from outside of the highlighted areas who also found a film of ash within a few days of the major eruptive event. 🌀[[User:CycloneFootball71|Cyclone]][[User talk:CycloneFootball71|'''Football''']][[Special:Contributions/CycloneFootball71|''71'']]🏈 |'''[[User:CycloneFootball71/sandbox|sandbox]]'''  03:35, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

::If there is an alternative map from a suitably authoritative source, then we could use that (or a suitably modified version of it, if it's copyrighted). Otherwise we stick to the map that we have. [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 04:50, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
:::I agree we should stick to the map we have unless another one is found. I do however think it does have its imperfections, but it comes from a reliable source, so there is no real need to change anything as of now. 🌀[[User:CycloneFootball71|Cyclone]][[User talk:CycloneFootball71|'''Football''']][[Special:Contributions/CycloneFootball71|''71'']]🏈 |'''[[User:CycloneFootball71/sandbox|sandbox]]'''  05:10, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
:I question it as well.  I was in grad school in Indiana at the time and was studying outdoors; I kept having to wipe grit from the page of my text, and on the third page I'd had to wipe clean it dawned on me what it had to be.  Friends in both Gary at the north end of the state also reported the same grit.  Thus the ash reached as far east as Indiana.
::I remember being on the very East Coast, East of New York, and having to wipe clumps of grit off our playground equipment. And the red skies at night![[Special:Contributions/2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454]] ([[User talk:2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|talk]]) 15:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
:::OK, I've done some research.  Firstly, there is a map online published in this instance by the Denver Post, but probably published around the nation, showing how far the ash reached by each day after the blast, which shows the ash reaching the Atlantic in three days.  Secondly, other sources cite the map used here (with yellow across the Northwestern quarter of the U.S.) as being not of "traces" of ash "detected," but "measurable depth," which I would take to mean only includes where there was a continuous layer of ash, unlike where I lived where the ash I found was only in tiny clumps.  (I suspect the clumping was due to dewfall, however, and on other surfaces would have been more likely to be continuous.) [[Special:Contributions/2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454]] ([[User talk:2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|talk]]) 15:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
:Cousins in Nebraska also experienced ash falling, in Kearney and Grand Island; one cousin managed to collect a pint jar full by carefully washing the roof of the house.
:Additionally, in a university volcanology course I took later for fun there was a map showing a much broader ashfall than the map provided here.  It showed trace amounts reaching to the western edge of Ohio and to Kansas City.
:Unfortunately the only map I can find these days is the USGS one included here, so while it is clearly deficient we're stuck with it. [[User:Dismalscholar|Dismalscholar]] ([[User talk:Dismalscholar|talk]]) 21:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::There's a map pulished in the Denver Post https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/17/photos-on-this-day-mount-st-helens-erupts/ That shows the ash reaching the East Coast, as I very well remember.  It's behind a paywall, but surely it's been republished. AP? [[Special:Contributions/2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454]] ([[User talk:2600:8806:1107:7600:35DC:5AD3:AB1F:5454|talk]]) 15:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Lead suggestion ==
I think the first question in a reader's mind is usually going to be "When did Mount St. Helens erupt?" The current lead starts {{tq|On March 27, 1980}}, which doesn't answer that question. I'd like to propose the following modification to the lead so that the first thing we say is the answer to that question:{{bq|The May 18, 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens was preceded by a series of volcanic explosions and pyroclastic flows that began on March 27, 1980, in Skamania County, Washington, United States. A series of phreatic blasts occurred from the summit and escalated until a major explosive eruption took place on May 18 at 8:32 AM.}} Thoughts? [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 14:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

== Misleading Lede and Infobox ==

The date of the main event is buried beneath large paragraphs poorly broken, and on a cursory examination it appears that the event took place in March, which of course is not the case. The lede needs to be rewritten to highlight the actual date.
<br>[[Special:Contributions/2402:8100:3971:2308:F0EF:7577:4434:EB99|2402:8100:3971:2308:F0EF:7577:4434:EB99]] ([[User talk:2402:8100:3971:2308:F0EF:7577:4434:EB99|talk]]) 12:40, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

== Inflation calculation ==

{{tl|Inflation}} is a bit complex, but its documentation is pretty clear that you can't say "$xxx today".  You have to state the correct year.  You also can't use the default index for government expenses in the billions.  The default value is for stuff like train tickets and doctor visits.  You have to use the US-GDP index for stuff like the cost of a natural disaster.  I'm not 100% sure I did the "refined estimate" correctly.  The problem is that the estimate itself is sourced, but the calculation itself was not.  It was just a link to some dodgy website.  The source doesn't explicitly say what year its estimate is from.  The paper was written in 1990, but it's talking about financial estimates of a disaster that happened in 1980.  ''Presumably'', that means the estimate is in 1980 dollars, but it would be nice to have a source explicitly state this so we're not assuming anything.  Assumptions are often wrong. [[User:NinjaRobotPirate|NinjaRobotPirate]] ([[User talk:NinjaRobotPirate|talk]]) 15:58, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

== 26 megatons or 24 megatons? ==

[[User:Howard from NYC|Howard from NYC]] ([[User talk:Howard from NYC|talk]]) 11:52, 22 August 2023 (UTC) 

which is it? 26 megatons or 24 megatons?