View source for Talk:2022 Pakistan floods

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{{ITN talk|oldid=1107031899|date=2022-08-27}}
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== Proposed merge ==
{{atop|status=Merge endorsed|There is unanimous and large-volume consensus to merge these into the larger [[2022 Pakistan floods]] article. <small>([[Wikipedia:Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> — ''Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung'', ''[[User:Mellohi!|mello]]'''''[[User talk:Mellohi!|hi!]]''' ([[Special:Contributions/Mellohi!|投稿]]) 18:42, 5 September 2022 (UTC)}}
Proposing merge from:
*[[2022 Dera Ghazi Khan floods]]
*[[2022 Gilgit-Baltistan floods]]
*[[2022 Quetta floods]]
*[[2022 Sindh floods]]

These are unmaintained stub articles, better presented as part of the whole. [[User:Gotitbro|Gotitbro]] ([[User talk:Gotitbro|talk]]) 06:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:I concur, they could be added under a subtopic "Major Areas Affected" or something of the likes. [[User:Uwynextdoor|Uwynextdoor]] ([[User talk:Uwynextdoor|talk]]) 06:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm agree with Uwynextdoor. <span style="color:#0645AD">Tajotep</span> ([[User talk:Tajotep|talk]]) 16:31, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:Are those events important enough to have their own articles? [[User:Hemanth Nalluri 11|Hemanth Nalluri 11]] ([[User talk:Hemanth Nalluri 11|talk]]) 11:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:Merge all those to this article. [[User:Jim Michael 2|Jim Michael 2]] ([[User talk:Jim Michael 2|talk]]) 13:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:'''Support''' -- [[User:Abbasi786786|Abbasi786786]] ([[User talk:Abbasi786786|talk]]) 19:20, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:Yes this is definite a be bold merge. [[User:Trillfendi|Trillfendi]] ([[User talk:Trillfendi|talk]]) 20:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Seem to be part of the same event. If the main article ever becomes too large, they could be spun off again; at present a merge seems way better. --[[User:LordPeterII|LordPeterII]] ([[User talk:LordPeterII|talk]]) 21:56, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' The articles are stub, so better to merge [[User:Sherenk1|Sherenk1]] ([[User talk:Sherenk1|talk]]) 14:31, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Per the reasons above. [[User:Johnson524|'''<span style="color:orange;">Johnson</span><span style="color:blue;">524</span>''']] ([[User talk:Johnson524|Talk!]]) 14:35, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' ibid above. [[User:InvadingInvader|InvadingInvader]] ([[User talk:InvadingInvader|talk]]) 18:01, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support'''  it's the same monsoon season, for sure. If the details on some of the included articles get much more relevant and voluminous, this peculiar flooding can be extracted later again, combined with a short overview and a link. I would move this lemma to <big>''2022 Pakistan summer monsoon floods''</big>, so it must not be renamed later, when there are more links to this and maybe winter floods. This seems unlikely, but the weather gets more loco every week… [[User:Horst Emscher|Horst Emscher]] ([[User talk:Horst Emscher|talk]]) 19:21, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' - strongly. Same event, but for different areas/provinces. It's better to combine it into a single article. [[User:نعم البدل|نعم البدل]] ([[User talk:نعم البدل|talk]]) 23:22, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. [[User:RPSkokie|RPSkokie]] ([[User talk:RPSkokie|talk]]) 06:04, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''', they can be be merged and redirected to this article. We can have separate sections for all the provinces. [[User:USaamo|USaamo]] <sup>([[User talk:USaamo|t@lk]])</sup> 08:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' [[User:Aquatic Ambiance|Aquatic Ambiance]] ([[User talk:Aquatic Ambiance|talk]]) 15:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' multiple stubs, better to be combined into one single article. [[User:Gorebath|Gorebath]] ([[User talk:Gorebath|talk]]) 15:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' The provinces covered in the stub articles are better suited for this overall article as of now and would better centralize efforts to document the floods. [[User:Fluddulation25|- Fluddulation!]] 16:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
*  '''Support''' Per [[WP:SIZERULE]] - micro stubs should be merged into an article that is decently sized, but not too long. It being a bit over 50 kB is ok if it is such a big disaster like this. [[Special:Contributions/98.116.128.17|98.116.128.17]] ([[User talk:98.116.128.17|talk]]) 18:39, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' Yeah of course, there's no need to have small articles/stubs like this when they should all be part of the bigger topic. Just make sure to include all the important details that the stubs talk about when you merge them/include them in the main article. Thanks, [[User:EagerBeaverPJ|EagerBeaverPJ]] ([[User talk:EagerBeaverPJ|talk]]) 22:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' Same event and include some important details. [[User:Thingofme|Thingofme]] ([[User talk:Thingofme|talk]]) 11:22, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
*I think we can close. It’s been over a week and all support merge. [[Special:Contributions/47.21.202.18|47.21.202.18]] ([[User talk:47.21.202.18|talk]]) 18:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== Cause of the floods ==
In the beginning of the article, it is mentioned that "The floods were caused by heavier than usual monsoon rains and melting glaciers that followed a severe heat wave, all of which are linked to climate change.". Is there any proofs to support this claim, specifically that the floods were caused by melting glaciers? [[User:Seaml|Seaml]] ([[User talk:Seaml|talk]]) 21:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

:Good point - I have added a cite [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 12:32, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2022 ==
{{edit semi-protected|2022 Pakistan floods|answered=yes}}
Change 

The [[Indian Ocean]] is one of the fastest warming oceans in the world, warming by an average of {{Convert|1|C|F}} (while worldwide temperatures are now at {{Convert|1.2|C|F}} above pre-industrial temperatures, oceans in general are at around {{Convert|0.7|C|F}}).<!--<ref name="Zoha" />-->

to

The [[Indian Ocean]] is one of the fastest warming oceans in the world, warming by an average of 1&nbsp;°C (1.8&nbsp;°F) (while worldwide temperatures are now at 1.2&nbsp;°C (2.18&nbsp;°F) above pre-industrial temperatures, oceans in general are at around 0.7&nbsp;°C (1.26&nbsp;°F)).<!--<ref name="Zoha" />-->

(Reason: Currently, the temperature by which the Indian Ocean rises is displayed in a "convert" notation that uses absolute conversion, leading to a false display of Fahrenheit temperatures.

While 1°C in ''absolute'' terms, as in on a thermometer, is indeed 33.8&nbsp;°F, a ''change'' by one degree celsius is a change by 1.8&nbsp;°F. The article needs to reflect this, so the use of the convert command is misleading at best.

Please edit the places where the convert command was used to reflect the accurate measurements in both celsius and fahrenheit, instead.) [[Special:Contributions/2.202.58.238|2.202.58.238]] ([[User talk:2.202.58.238|talk]]) 09:50, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> I corrected the parameters of the convert template instead of using plain text, but the effect is the same. Thanks for identifying this. (I also commented out the reference above since it's not related to the request and confuses the talk page layout.) --[[User:Bsherr|Bsherr]] ([[User talk:Bsherr|talk]]) 17:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
::Under ''International Response'' it says for Bangladesh that "On August 2030, Bangladeshi PM...", whereas the footnote says that it was on "30 August", which also makes more sense. [[User:Pazul42|Pazul42]] ([[User talk:Pazul42|talk]]) 08:24, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2022 ==
{{edit semi-protected|2022 Pakistan floods|answered=yes}}
Following the discussion, the merge tag should be removed and replaced with {{tl|being merged}}. [[Special:Contributions/47.16.96.33|47.16.96.33]] ([[User talk:47.16.96.33|talk]]) 19:22, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
:[[File:Pictogram voting wait.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> in {{diff|2022 Pakistan floods|1108693677}} [[User:Ductwork|Ductwork]] ([[User talk:Ductwork|talk]]) 21:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)



== 2022 Sindh Floods death toll ==

The article for the 2022 Sindh floods shows that 1,569 people died in the province, cited and all. If you combine that with deaths in Balochistan, Punjab etc, you get a death toll of 2,505. Should the death toll be changed? [[User:Quake1234|Quake1234]] ([[User talk:Quake1234|talk]]) 12:53, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

== "One third of Pakistan flooded" claim ==

There is some user difference of opinion about the statement by the Sherry Rehman (government minister) saying that "one third of Pakistan was under water". That statement was widely reported and continues to be reported (as of February 2023). I was the user who added the scientific research references that suggested a lower flooding area in the region of 10-12%. I left the original ministerial claim not because it may or may not be correct, but because a government official had made the claim. Therefore it is notable and encyclopedic to show the difference between the government position and those of some scientists. I think it's wrong to remove any mention of the "one third" claim, because it doesn't help the reader of this article to gain an understanding of the events as they happened at the time and, perhaps most importantly, the international reaction to the floods in possible large part driven by the "one third" claim. I noticed that all mention of the "one third" claim was removed, so I reverted. That was then reverted back, but I'm not going to revert again at this time to avoid an edit war. I think it's actually quite interesting and notable to see how the political reaction to these floods was stated at the time. It would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks about this. [[User:Seaweed|Seaweed]] ([[User talk:Seaweed|talk]]) 14:34, 5 February 2023 (UTC)