View source for Talk:Bayraktar TB2/Archive 1


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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Armed Bayraktar TB2.jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 16:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

== Merger proposal ==

I propose to marge [[Bayraktar Tactical UAS]] into [[Bayraktar TB2]] as information of both articles cover the same aircraft. [[User:Nafis Fuad Ayon|Nafis Fuad Ayon]] ([[User talk:Nafis Fuad Ayon|talk]]) 09:38, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
:Good idea. I still dont have a clue whats the difference between a TB2 and a TB1. Just saw some diagrams and seems that TB1 have a different tail. But still a explanation between the caracteristics of this UAVs should be included.[[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 01:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Update: Merger proposal already removed by me. Reason: All duplicate information related to Bayraktar TB-2 removed from Bayraktar Tactical UAS by "Mr.User200" . [[User:Nafis Fuad Ayon|Nafis Fuad Ayon]] ([[User talk:Nafis Fuad Ayon|talk]]) 09:12, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

== Rotax engine replaced ==
Baykar has replaced the Rotax engine in the TB2 with TUSAS ENGINE INDUSTRIES TEI-PD170 engine.<ref>https://www.yenisafak.com/video-galeri/ekonomi/selcuk-bayraktardan-yerli-uretim-ucak-motoru-paylasimi-akinci-ve-bayraktar-tb3e-guc-verecek-2211736</ref> 29 October 2020 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Western Involvement ==
I have added a paragraph about western involvement in the development of this system. This is information that needs to be available in Turkey.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:BayraktarTB2|BayraktarTB2]] ([[User talk:BayraktarTB2#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BayraktarTB2|contribs]]) 23:55, 27 November 2020 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2020 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
Kosovo's Defence Minister (Anton Quni) visited Bayraktar production centres in Turkey at the invitation of the company to discuss possible procurement of Bayraktar TB2 drones and have announced they will look into it and are interested in purchasing them. I would like to add Kosovo to the list of potential operators.

<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZTAOS5flU</ref>
<ref>https://www.defensehere.com/eng/defense-industry/kosovo-defense-minister-visits-baykar-defense/75637</ref>
<ref>https://www.savunmatr.com/savunma-sanayii/kosova-savunma-bakani-ndan-baykar-a-ziyaret-h3279.html</ref> [[User:Custardloaf|Custardloaf]] ([[User talk:Custardloaf|talk]]) 22:10, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
: {{not done}}. Only confirmed countries should be added. Serbia has been removed. [[User:Ganbaruby|<span style="color:#960596">◢</span> <b><i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i></b>]] <small>([[User talk:Ganbaruby|Say hi!]])</small> 13:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

== Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
Hello, i would like to add contents on the operators list of the Bayraktar TB2 drones because there's some countries that apparently are interested of this drone and i would like to make a potential operators list for the Bayraktar TB2 (with sources of course). Thank you.[[User:El Boulboul|El Boulboul]] ([[User talk:El Boulboul|talk]]) 07:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Jack Frost|Jack Frost]] ([[User talk:Jack Frost|talk]]) 07:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

== Biased View ==

Unfortunately this page is edited in a biased version. Please check all other prominent UAV platforms such as [[IAI Heron|Heron]], [[General Atomics MQ-1 Predator|Predator]], [[General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper|Reaper]] pages. You can't see biased news comments about which subsystems they use. Heron UAV for instance is equipped with a lot of non israeli items, but do you see any comments on this on its page? so these pages shall have an unbiased view of the system rather than filling it with some biased news. [[User:Slmsahilman|Slmsahilman]] ([[User talk:Slmsahilman|talk]]) 15:15, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

:No one stops you to add detail with source on Heron etc pages. Where is '''biased version''' or on which section you mean? [[User:Cengizsogutlu|Cengizsogutlu]] ([[User talk:Cengizsogutlu|talk]]) 22:17, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

== About "47 destroyed TB2 drones" ==
<s>Article says "according to a US correspondent Jeff Jaworski", this is wrong, according to Jeff Jaworski's Quora account he is a "military tech fan". Also the original source isn't him, he quotes "Avia.pro (pro Russian news website)" and Avia.pro quotes "Al-Masdar news". So, original source of the claim is Al-Masdar News. Al-Masdar news, according to BBC and Newsweek, is a pro Assad news website. Another thing from Wikipedia itself: "A 2018 report by the Alliance for Securing Democracy, based on analysis of its "Hamilton 68" database of Russian disinformation Twitter accounts, showed that Al-Masdar is a main source of Syria-related propaganda for Russian accounts aimed at US audiences.". So it is a website used by Russian "trolls" to push Russian propaganda. Author of the original claim is "Mohamed Mansour", he is an Egyptian (Egypt is supporting LNA) journalist. He has mocking tweets about downed TB2's. In the end he is non biased and a questionable source, article itself has no sources or evidences about these 47 downed drones. I can find some journalist claiming no TB2s were lost and they were able to destroy 50 Pantsir systems but without any evidence that wouldn't be a good source, this is not a good source either.

For example, according to neutral observers, 16 TB2s were lost in Libya: https://dronewars.net/2020/07/01/libyan-war-sees-record-number-of-drones-brought-down-to-earth/</s>

:There are several sources claiming numbers of TB2 drones lost, some claim 16,19, and 23 depending of the source. Since the GNA and Turkey does not say how many were lost analyst make their own tally. I think the LNA make a wider claim of 80 GNA operated drones but since there are multiple numbers we only cite most of the numbers reported and the reader could get a better idea.[[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 13:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

::<s>Some of those claims have evidence, some of them do not. There is a difference between an American correspondent and an Egyptian journalist who's working for a Russian propaganda website. At the very least source should be fixed, source isn't a American correspondent called "Jeff Jaworski", it's a Egyptian journalist called "Mohamed Mansour" who works for Al-Masdar News (which is pro LNA). When you say source is American it looks neutral, when you say source is Egyptian it does not. People have right to know the actual source.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/94.54.98.42|94.54.98.42]] ([[User talk:94.54.98.42#top|talk]]) 16:37, 13 May 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--></s>
:Wikipedia is not a Forum for discussing the reliability of a source depending of the country of origin. To dismiss the source because it is Egyptian, Russian or Lybian seems to be a excuse to hide the facts reported. The fact that you claim no Bayraktar TB2 have been lost is simply not true, since most sources and events display at least 2 dozens of Bayraktar TB2 wrecks/reports, some could be duplicated or maybe other drone, but most sources agree on that number, aprox 20 lost in Libya. Regarding 50 Pantsirs lost that's pure original research and Propaganda. There is no even a report or source of Wagner and LNA operating that number of Pantsirs in Libya.[[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 01:22, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

<s>Where did I claim no TB2's were lost (I didn't)? Here is the thing, article contains false information. It says "A US correspondent Jeff Jaworski wrote that a total of 47 Bayraktar drones were destroyed", that is simply not true. "Jeff Jaworski" (not a correspondent anyways, he is a random guy) quotes a Russian website that quotes Al-Masdar News, not the other way around, see, false information. You say "There is no even a report or source of Wagner and LNA operating that number of Pantsirs" and there are no sources that claim GNA got 50 TB2s either but somehow that's enough for you? Turkey built around 100 TB2s, thinking they gave half of their drone inventory to GNA is simply absurd. I don't have an account so someone fix that false information please, thanks.</s>

== Article is in a poor shape ==

Article should be revised by experienced users. [[User:Klevehagfd|Klevehagfd]] ([[User talk:Klevehagfd|talk]]) 02:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
It would make sense to move "Possible sales" list from "History" section to "Operators" section. 

For example: 

==== OPERATORS : ====
===== 1) Current operators =====
... 

===== 2) Possible future operators =====
...

... [[Special:Contributions/46.104.99.129|46.104.99.129]] ([[User talk:46.104.99.129|talk]]) 16:56, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
: {{done}}. [[User:Ganbaruby|<span style="color:#960596">◢</span> <b><i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i></b>]] <small>([[User talk:Ganbaruby|talk]])</small> 05:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

== Albania ==
Albania is going to be the latest customer who purchases the drones, there's not a specific number, but it's worth mentioning. It's all over the news just search the drone variant in Google and you can find many articles about this.Here: https://www.defenseworld.net/news/29942/Albania_Approves_Bayraktar_TB2_Drone_Purchase

== Price 1 Million USD ==
Should be added to clarify that its recent popularity is due to being an economic option, opposed to hyperbole "quality". <ref>https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2021/07/26/cheap-and-combat-tested-the-growing-market-for-turkish-drones/?sh=4822a6d57ce0</ref> [[User:Peacefulwars|Peacefulwars]] ([[User talk:Peacefulwars|talk]]) 10:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Map of Operators and Potential Operators ==

The map of operators and potential operators needs to be updated. Anyone up for task?[[User:Megalomanda138|Megalomanda138]] ([[User talk:Megalomanda138|talk]]) 12:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

== Can the article be written in a neutral language? ==

<s>And not by people who have certain agenda?

For example this section is pretty biased, not surprisingly its "original research" and written by a Greek. 

''"In response to The Guardian newspaper, Baykar Chief Technical Officer Selcuk Bayraktar denied that the bomb rack came from the UK. "We are not buying it from you, we never did. It not only does not work under any circumstances but is also very expensive," Bayraktar said on Twitter. "We have designed and manufactured a more advanced and cost-effective one ourselves."[22] This denial appears to be intended to obscure the facts from the Turkish public.[23]"''

"This denial appears to be" etc. and linking a "source" to make it "legit", source being an article, written by a greek. As if purchasing stuff from other countries is some kind of drug deal and that there'd be a need to "obscure the facts" from the public. This behavior is easily seen all over the article and its hilarious.</s>
:Please care to sign your comments, Wikipedia is not a Forum to label the nationality of the editors by the ccurrent content of the article. Stop using talk pages for [[Wp:SOAPBOX]]ing and using Social media as a Source. [[WP:TWITTER]].[[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 14:40, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

== Operators map should be updated. ==

Basically the title. The map does not represent the current operators and needs to be updated as soon as possible.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Slh7477|Slh7477]] ([[User talk:Slh7477#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slh7477|contribs]]) 19:29, 21 October 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2022 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Baykar Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
[[User:NitroCharger|NitroCharger]] ([[User talk:NitroCharger|talk]]) 04:28, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

[[:File:FLts9RsXEAIpl0E.jpg|başparmak]]

:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> That is most likely a copyrighted image, and not available for use on Wikipedia. Further, it's in Turkish, not English, and useless to most of our readers.  [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 05:22, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022    ==

{{edit semi-protected|Baykar Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
change the X word "useed" to the Y word used [[User:Ronaldhines|Ronaldhines]] ([[User talk:Ronaldhines|talk]]) 01:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 01:35, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
::{{done}} by someone. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 02:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2022 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Baykar Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
The is a mistake in the second paragraph. It is stated :"Engine exports were halted when Bombardier, owner of Rotax, became aware of the military use of their Rotax 912 recreational aircraft engine.[7]".

However, the owner of Rotax is not Bombardier, but Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP). Although they share a similar name, the two companies are not the same entity since 2003. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Recreational_Products
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/turkey-armenia-azerbaijan-drones-bombardier-1.5775350 [[User:Ljmoukhtar|Ljmoukhtar]] ([[User talk:Ljmoukhtar|talk]]) 15:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
: {{done}}. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 22:52, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

== "Bayraktar drones saw their first use in a major military conflict in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, when they were successfully used to destroy Russian tanks and armor." but what about the Nagorno-Karabakh War ==

As per title, the article claims that the first major use of the drones were in the [[2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]. What about their extensive use during the [[2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war]]? It was a large war and it was the first time the use of the Bayaktar as an effective weapon was seen. Should it be changed or rewritten?[[User:LordLoko|LordLoko]] ([[User talk:LordLoko|talk]]) 14:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

== Extremely biased information regarding usage in Libyan war ==

It seems like the section was written by a hardcore pro-LNA/UAE propagandist using a whole lot of hearsay and false information to paint the picture the drones failed miserably in Libya. Nowhere near as many were shot down as claimed, and conveniently there is no information regarding the ridiculously high number of successful usages of the drone against the LNA and Wagner Mercenaries in Libya. The drone almost singlehandedly changed the course of the war in favour of the Libyan government against Haftar/Russia/UAE.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.207.215.106|92.207.215.106]] ([[User talk:92.207.215.106#top|talk]]) 14:31, 3 March 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Semi-protected edit request: Use "Ukraine" instead of "the Ukraine" to refer to the country ==

{{edit semi-protected|Baykar Bayraktar TB2|answered=yes}}
In the "Ukraine and 2022 Russian invasion" section, change the two occurrences of "the Ukraine's" to "Ukraine's" to match official guidance.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine, last sentence of the first paragraph. [[User:Istvanfarmosi|Istvanfarmosi]] ([[User talk:Istvanfarmosi|talk]]) 01:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 11:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

== Claims of 96 Russian tanks destroyed by TB2 ==

Any adition of extraordinary information should be backed by extraordinary sources. A article by media from one of the participants claiming 96 Russians tanks destroyed without a single video of image is simply unreliable. Per [[WP:PARTISAN]] and [[WP:Extraordinary]][[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 20:00, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

:Article also has claim of 47 downed TB2's with only around 15 photo sources, fix that first then you can complain about other claims.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/46.196.94.19|46.196.94.19]] ([[User talk:46.196.94.19#top|talk]]) 21:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:You expect an article to provide you with video of combat footage? That is unrealistic. Show me articles that have such videos for few exceptions? Also, maybe you should open a twitter account. Much footage of entire decimated columns have been shown to be taken out by this particular drone. Also, I used a valid Ukrainian news source.[[User:Mechanized battalion|Mechanized battalion]] ([[User talk:Mechanized battalion|talk]]) 13:04, 13 March 2022 (UTC)Mechanized battalion
:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1497861256975249411[[User:Mechanized battalion|Mechanized battalion]] ([[User talk:Mechanized battalion|talk]]) 13:27, 13 March 2022 (UTC)Mechanized battalion
This is dated on the day that event took place. :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdTGT1dLSKA[[User:Mechanized battalion|Mechanized battalion]] ([[User talk:Mechanized battalion|talk]]) 13:35, 13 March 2022 (UTC)