View source for Talk:Bernoulli family

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== Leon == 

Why is Leon not shown on the family tree?  Simply because nobody knows what relation he is to the rest of the family? [[User:Smjg|Smjg]] ([[User talk:Smjg|talk]]) 12:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

== Pronunciation ==

How is the name Bernoulli supposed to be pronounced? — [[User:Smjg|Smjg]] ([[User talk:Smjg|talk]]) 12:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
:The accepted English pronunciation is {{IPAc-en|b|ər|ˈ|n|u:|l|i}}. The Collins French pronunciation guide ({{IPA|fr|bɛʁnuˈji|lang}}) is not an authentic representation of the ''family name'' because of the last syllable. In French, the name is frequently misspelled Bernou-'''i'''ll-i and mispronounced accordingly ({{IPA|fr|bɛʁnuˈji|lang}}) instead of ({{IPA|fr|bɛʁnuˈli|lang}}). The [[w:fr:Famille Bernoulli|French wikipedia article]] says about the spelling: ''"Le nom de famille est parfois orthographié, '''par erreur''' semble-t-il, Bernou'''i'''lli"''. According to the tourist office of Basel, hometown of the Bernoullis, the correct French pronunciation is bernou-li, not bernou-ill-i. A French science forum on internet confirmed that the correct pronunciation in French is bernou-li, not bernou-ill-i.[http://forums.futura-sciences.com/physique/560641-bernoulli-prononciation.html#post4187354]. [[User:Ceinturion|Ceinturion]] ([[User talk:Ceinturion|talk]]) 11:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)  <small>- '''Edit''': removed clumsy IPA -</small>
::The article is in English, and the pronunciation guide is to help English readers know how to pronounce the name.  As the accepted English pronunciation is {{IPAc-en|b|ər|ˈ|n|u:|l|i}}, which from the above contribution by Ceinturion is also how it is correctly pronounced in Basel and France, there is no conflict.  I will replace the pronunciation guide in the article. [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 11:27, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
:Trivia 1: Even on the Moon the family name was misspelled Bernou-i-lli for many years. In the 18th century a moon crater was named Bernoulli. Sadly, it was misspelled Bernou-i-lli in the moon atlas by Beer & [[Johann Heinrich von Mädler|Mädler]] (1836), and a century later (1935) this misspelling was adopted officially by the [[International Astronomical Union]] (IAU). Only recently, in 2003, the crater name was officially changed back to Bernoulli by the IAU. [http://the-moon.wikispaces.com/Bernoulli] 
:Trivia 2: The City of Paris changed the street name Rue Bernou-i-lli (original street name since 1867) to Rue Bernoulli, in 1994. [http://www.v2asp.paris.fr/commun/v2asp/v2/nomenclature_voies/Voieactu/0906.nom.htm]  [[User:Ceinturion|Ceinturion]] ([[User talk:Ceinturion|talk]]) 09:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
::: Please see my discussion on pronunciation at [[Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli#Pronunciation.3F.3F_German.2C_French_or_Dutch.3F_How_long_did_Bernoulli_stay_in_the_Netherlands.3F|Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli]]. [[User:Viktor Laszlo|Viktor Laszlo]] ([[User talk:Viktor Laszlo|talk]]) 15:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
:::: Removed French. See [[Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli#Pronunciation.3F.3F_German.2C_French_or_Dutch.3F_How_long_did_Bernoulli_stay_in_the_Netherlands.3F|Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli#Pronunciation]] [[User:Ceinturion|Ceinturion]] ([[User talk:Ceinturion|talk]]) 15:46, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Since there is no such thing as a Swiss language, could someone please specify whether the given pronounciation is Swiss French or Swiss German? [[User:Pqnlrn|Pqnlrn]] ([[User talk:Pqnlrn|talk]]) 20:13, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
: Judging from previous discussion the options are {{IPA|de|bɛʁˈnʊli|lang}} and {{IPA|fr|bɛʁnuˈli|lang}}.  The Bernoullis had a way of pronouncing their name before they moved to Basle, so neither form is necessarily what they would have used themselves. The language debate is a bit of a minefield.  The English pronunciation is {{IPAc-en|b|ər|ˈ|n|u:|l|i}}. [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 21:58, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
: Further thoughts: The article on [[Basel]] states "The local variant of the [[Swiss German]] dialects is called [[Basel German]]", but I think it would be wrong to describe {{IPA|de|bɛʁˈnʊli|lang}} as 'Swiss German' or 'Basel German'.  The first is an umbrella term covering many dialects and the IPA-de reference is for German as spoken in Hannover.  [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 13:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I would like to see some references on the long vowel and the non-gemination of the ''l''. I.e. is it /bɛʁnˈuːli/,  /bɛʁnˈuli/,   /bɛʁnˈulːi/,   /bɛʁnuː'li/,  /bɛʁnu'li/ or /bɛʁnu'lːi/? (Switzerland opts for  /bɛʁnˈulːi/). Just claiming "The accepted English pronunciation is X" does not cut it, what does "accepted" even mean in this context if you cannot cite any reference?
Regarding the ''Bernouilli'' spelling, it is open to interpretation whether this was a "misspelling" or simply the "French form" of the name, if it had just been a "misspelling" it would not have persisted for a century or more. I have the impression that it was a consciously French spelling of the name, and only since the 1990s has there been a trend, in France, to return to the "native" form of the name. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]</small> 09:32, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

== Niklaus sons ==

I'm not sure, but I think Nicklaus had ten sons, between them the three cited in the article, but not only them.--[[User:Ferran Mir|Ferran Mir]] ([[User talk:Ferran Mir|talk]]) 07:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
: your reason for thinking that would be helpful  [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 09:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== Another member? ==

Is [[Hans Benno Bernoulli]] a member of this family? He comes from Basel, just askin'.... [[User:Ema--or|Ema--or]] ([[User talk:Ema--or|talk]]) 00:41, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
: He is reportedly a descendant of the family of mathematicians, see [http://www.answers.com/topic/hans-bernoulli-1 here].  The wikipedia article on the family mentions that it has many notable descendants. [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 08:42, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
: It is worth mentioning in the article on the architect. [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 09:20, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
: Done [[User:Apuldram|Apuldram]] ([[User talk:Apuldram|talk]]) 11:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

== Margarethe Schönauer ==

In the history section we read "Leon's great-great-grandson, married Margarethe Schönauer." Who is Margarethe Schönauer and why does she merit such a mention? I think this bit of information should either be clarified or removed.

[[User:Aupiff|Aupiff]] ([[User talk:Aupiff|talk]]) 04:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

== Religion ==

We are told they fled the persecution of Protestants but not that they were Protestants. [[Special:Contributions/70.55.15.131|70.55.15.131]] ([[User talk:70.55.15.131|talk]]) 13:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

== Margarethe ==

Leaving Margarethe out by saying only "Niklaus had four sons," is absurd in 2024. Margarethe contributed half the genes in all four sons, and her half must have been as powerful in mathematical ability as the genes of Niklaus, or this great family cluster of genius mathematicians would not exist. In the past it was believed that men alone contributed inheritable characteristics to the child, and that women were merely the nest in which this fully formed homunculus grew into a baby. E.g. in 1694, Nicolaas Hartsoeker, in his Essai de Dioptrique concerning things large and small that could be seen with optical lenses, produced an image of a tiny human form curled up inside the sperm, which he referred to in the French as petit l'infant and le petit animal. This image, depicting what historians now refer to as the homunculus, has become iconic of the theory of [[preformationism]]. The embryologist [[Caspar Friedrich Wolff]] refuted preformationism in 1759 in favor of [[epigenesis]], but this did not put an end to preformationism.<ref name="Mayr 1998">{{cite book |chapter-url={{Google books|-ddVamDO-xcC|page=11|plainurl=yes}} |author-link=Ernst Mayr |first=Ernst |last=Mayr |title=This Is Biology: The Science of the Living World |publisher=Harvard University Press |location=Cambridge, MA |date=1998 |isbn=978-0-674-88469-4 |chapter=What Is the Meaning of 'Life'? |page=[https://archive.org/details/thisisbiology00erns/page/11 11] |access-date=June 10, 2016 |url=https://archive.org/details/thisisbiology00erns/page/11 }}</ref> The historical ideas of preformationism and epigenesis, and the rivalry between them, are obviated by the [[genetics|contemporary understanding]] of the [[genetic code]] and its [[nucleic acid|molecular basis]] together with [[developmental biology]] and modern [[epigenetics]] (utterly distinct from the historical). [[User:Nwbeeson|Nick Beeson]] ([[User talk:Nwbeeson|talk]]) 01:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

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