View source for Talk:Euro sign

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

{{{result|The result of the debate was}}} '''move'''. &mdash;[[User:Nightstallion|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Nightst</span>]][[User:Nightstallion/esperanza|<span style="font-variant:small-caps; color:green;">a</span>]][[User:Nightstallion|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">llion</span>]] [[User talk:Nightstallion|''(?)'']] 11:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

==Requested move==
* [[Euro symbol]] → '''[[euro sign]]''' &mdash; Currency signs are called "sign" not "symbol"; compare [[Dollar sign]], [[Cent sign]], [[Pound sign]], [[Currency (typography)|Generic currency sign]], and the collection at [[Currency sign]]. The Unicode name for all of these uses SIGN for the same reason. &mdash; [[Talk:Euro symbol]] &mdash; [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 09:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
===Survey===
:''Add *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''' followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ''<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
*'''Support''' as per the rationale above. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 09:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Support''' agreed as obvious. [[User:Bkehoe|Bkehoe]] 10:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Support''' makes sense. [[User:Loserdog3000|<span style="color:Green;cursor: wait;">Loserdog</span>]][[User talk:Loserdog3000|<span style="color:#00CC00;"><sup>3000</sup></span>]] 10:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Oppose''', see discussion section below: popular usage and official European Central Bank usage is Euro symbol. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 16:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Philip makes a good case. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 17:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Support''' it is right. makes sense. [[User:203.81.161.142|Htoo Myint Naung (MyMyanmar)]]
*'''Support''' by the same rationale. In finance, a ''symbol'' would rather refer to a financial instrument (though not the FX rate). <sub>└</sub>&nbsp;<sup>'''[[User:VodkaJazz|VodkaJazz]]'''</sup>&nbsp;/&nbsp;<sub>''[[User Talk:VodkaJazz|talk]]''</sub>&nbsp;<sup>┐</sup> 20:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

====Comments on the survey====
*Bkehoe has only made a total of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bkehoe 8 contribution] to en.wikipedia and taken part in one other survey. That was also proposed by Evertype [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ALongcase_clock&diff=53935267&oldid=53767073] --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 22:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:Bkehoe did support the name change proposal for [[Longcase clock]], yes. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]]
*Loserdog account was created on the [[2 June]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Loserdog3000]. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 22:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know who this person is. Are you suggesting that I do? [[User:Evertype|Evertype]]
*The "Htoo Myint Naung (MyMyanmar)" opinion was expressed by an IP number. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEuro_symbol&diff=57906514&oldid=57905413 Revision as of 18:17, 10 June 2006,203.81.161.142] See also [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEuro_symbol&diff=57907222&oldid=57906514 Revision as of 18:17, 10 June 2006, 203.81.161.142 ->Revision as of 18:23, 10 June 2006 Evertype] --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 22:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:I know it was an IP number; I just wikified the link to the IP number in order to be ''helpful'' when the vote appeared in the list. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]]

===Discussion===
:''Add any additional comments''

A Google search returns:
* about 401,000 English pages for "Euro symbol" -wikipedia
* about 156,000 English pages for "euro sign" -wikipedia
:So common usage is "Euro symbol" but coupled to this is the European Central Bank usage. A search of their web site ["euro sign" site:ecb.eu] returns 0, ["Euro symbol" site:ecb.eu] returns 4 documents:
* [http://www.ecb.eu/pub/pdf/other/eurobren.pdf Euro our money]
: The graphic symbol. for the euro was. inspired by the Greek. letter epsilon and. refers to the first letter. of the word “Europe” ... When tilted, a hologram shows the euro symbol and the value of the banknote.
* [http://www.euro.ecb.eu/en/section/euro/banknote.html Banknote and coin design] ([http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:yXI_HOhWVw0J:www.euro.ecb.eu/en/section/euro/banknote.html+%22Euro+symbol%22+site:.ecb.eu&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=4&lr=lang_en cached])
* [http://www.ecb.eu/ecb/legal/pdf/c_13420040512en00110013.pdf OPINION OF THE EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK of 16 April 2004, at the request of the Council of the European Union on a proposal for a Council regulation, concerning medals and tokens similar to euro coins.]
*:The purpose of the proposed regu-lation is to protect the general public against fraud and confusion relating to euro coins as the general public could believe that medals and tokens have legal tender status if the words ‘euro’ or ‘euro cent’ or the '''euro symbol''' appear on them, and medals and tokens could be fraudulently used in coin-operated machines. 
** [http://www.ecb.eu/ecb/legal/pdf/c_18620040721en00030003.pdf Corrigendum to the non-opposition to a notified concentration — (Case COMP/M.3392 — WestLB/Klöckner)] Is a fix for an embarising mistake in the document above! "On page 11, paragraph 3, third line: for: ‘… of the euro symbol (IJ) on metallic objects …’, read: ‘… of the euro symbol (€) on metallic objects …’.

*British Government uses the phrase "Euro symbol"  on a page called [http://www.euro.gov.uk/eurosymbol.asp Euro Information]
*For what is is worth Microsoft, Free BSD, and Adobe use this term on these pages [http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/W95EuroPatch/Default.asp  Euro Currency Support for Windows 95], [http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/euro/article.html The Euro symbol on FreeBSD], [http://www.adobe.com/type/eurofont.html Adobe Euro fonts]
--[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 16:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:I am not convinced by Philip's "case". He has only presented some evidence about the usage by the European Central Bank, but they and the Commission have done ''nothing'' but linguistic harm with regard to the name of the currency and now apparently of the currency sign, and I for one do not consider them authoritiative in this matter. (Interest rates, they can rule on. Not language.) Currency signs are currency signs, and it is absurd to talk about the '''dollar sign''', the '''yen sign''', the '''cent sign''', the '''pound sign''', but to have to refer the '''euro symbol'''. No one ''ever'' talks about the *'''dollar symbol''', the *'''yen symbol''', the *'''cent symbol''', the *'''pound symbol''', now do we? When it was created in the first place the ECB wanted it to be an immutable logo. They did not do any decent language planning or consultation, and what happens to be on their website is accidental. The ''proper'' name for this ''character'' is the '''euro sign''' and Wikipedia (which is not ruled by Google searches) should use this name for ''consistency'' with the names of other '''currency signs'''. It's bad enough that we have to continually remind people not to ''capitalize'' the name of the currency. Can we not have some ''sanity'' and have [[euro sign]] be the name of this article and let [[Euro symbol]] redirect to it? Thank you. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 17:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

::As I note above, I do not consider this usage to be normative in terms of language. No one, but no one, will say anything like this: "I have the ''dollar sign'', the ''euro symbol'', and the ''pound sign'' engraved on my keyboard, but the ''yen sign'' is not engraved." Currency signs are currency ''signs'', not ''symbols''. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 17:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Google the UK parliament returns:
*29 English pages from parliament.uk for "Euro symbol"
*2 English pages from parliament.uk for "euro sign"
Apart from Common usage (~ 3 to 1 in a Google search) and official usage, not not only by ECB and the [[European Commission]] ([http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/notes_and_coins/symbol_en.htm The €uro: Our Currency] ) and the British Government. How many more information is necessary for this page to remain where it is, and one would expect under [[WP:NC]]?
--[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 17:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:''and what happens to be on their website is accidental''
I don't agree with you on this statment about their web site,  but even if it were true, it would not be true for [http://www.ecb.eu/ecb/legal/pdf/c_13420040512en00110013.pdf this official document] (listed above) on the ECB website. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 17:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:'''Naming consistency''' is ''not'' against the naming conventions. The article should follow the same conventions as do the names of other currency signs, and a redirect from [[Euro symbol]] to [[euro sign]] should be sufficient. I remain convinced that this page should be renamed, whether or not "euro sign" is less prominent at present than "euro symbol" on Google. People talk about currency signs, and use the word "sign" with them, and it is ridiculous for the '''euro sign''' to be any different just because the EU doesn't know anything about terminology and language planning. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 18:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
::That ''official document'' is not about assigning terminology. That's not what it's for. It does not say "Ye shall call this 'the euro symbol'." This is the same ridiculous mess we got into when they screwed up the plural of euro. You can't take that ''official document'' as a normative instruction to the world to call the € a symbol instead of a sign. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 18:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Regarding ''naming consistency'' please see [[Currency sign]] [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 18:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:NC says nothing about naming consistency, it says use the common name. In this case the two meld togehter because the common name is the same as the official name the "Euro symbol". As you point out a redirect can be used, and to keep the article at the common name ad official name (Not only used in Europe but also more frequently used in the British Parliament), a redirect can be used from [[euro sign]] to [[Euro symbol]] as it is now. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 21:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:That WP:NC says nothing about consistency does not mean that we cannot use our intelligence and ''choose'' consistency for a class of similar objects even if a Google search turns up numeric superiority for one particular variant as opposed to another. Google may have found 400,000 ''euro symbol''s but 156,000 ''euro sign''s is hardly insignificant. And I argue that the European Commission is known to have done a poor job with regard to terminology. Wikipedia has (after much argument on my part and the part of others) chosen to stick to the natural plurals ''euros'' and ''cents'', though "officially" in EU legislation the s-less plurals are used. Therefore the usage of the ECB does not impress me, and the fact that they have managed to spread their meme as far as Microsoft impresses me even less. Clearly they were not thinking about context, and the linguistic context that the euro sign lives in is that it is one of a class of currency signs. You ignored my suggestion to look at [[Currency sign]]. What's wrong with this picture? 
:*¤ generic currency sign, ฿ baht sign, ₵ cedi sign, ¢ cent sign, ₡ colón sign, $ dollar sign, ₫ đồng sign, € euro '''symbol''', ₴ hryvnia sign,  ₭ kip sign, ₤ lira sign, ₥ mill sign, ₦ naira sign, ₱ peso sign, £ pound sign, ៛ riel sign, ₨ rupee sign, ৳ rupee sign, ₪ new sheqel sign, ₩ won sign, ₮ tugrik sign, ¥ yen sign. 
:There's only one thing wrong with it: € "euro symbol" needs to be € "euro sign". And what's more, Google the Irish parliament returns:
:*4 English pages from oireachtas.ie for "Euro symbol" (jocular references talking about changing the shamrock to a euro symbol on Aer Lingus tail fins)
:*8 English pages from oireachtas.ie for "euro sign" (discussing technical changes to legislation with regard to the "pound sign" and the "euro sign")
:This is on the same scale as the 29-to-2 pages you got from the UK, and favours the term "euro sign". [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 22:41, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
::There's a reason why consistency is not policy; to avoid arguments like this. [[Ralph Waldo Emerson|A foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds]]. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 23:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Consistency is not proscribed, either, and I have not proposed this change on a whim. Quoting Emerson does not trump the proposal, because there is nothing foolish about preferring the term "euro sign" along with all the other currency signs. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 08:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

== [[Alain Billiet]] ==
The sentence "Actually the designer of the sign is [[Alain Billiet]]." was just removed for the reason "rv v" which I take to mean "revert vandalism". What's the story? [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 09:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

== Naïveté ==
Jenny Wong, I think the original text saying that the Commission somewhat naïvely believed that the logo was going to be used in all fonts is more accurate. I was a member of a CEN committee and we met with officials about getting the thing into computers, and they really ''did'' believe that everyone was going to do it that way. ''Naïveté'' is the word for that, isn't it? [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 21:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

:A "commission" can't "believe" anything, only individuals can have believes. None of the early EU publications that I had seen at the time contained any guidance on font design. All geometric-guidance that I was able to find seemed really targeted at a >40 mm yellow-on-blue project-identity logo (for web sites, letter heads, posters, etc.), not at font designers. So I wonder, whether the claim "the Commission intended the logo to be a prescribed glyph shape" holds up to scruteny, and would prefer the phrase "some people suggested to also use the logo as a glyph shape". Are you sure, what you describe was really an early-on official policy, rather than just confusion by one or two Commission employees that you met? [[User:Jomsborg|Jomsborg]] 11:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

::I wouldn't call it naïveté - I'd call it megalomania, which the entire EU 'project' suffers from profoundly. All the senior EU 'officials' - in reality, jumped-up little dictators - exhibit it to a very high degree.   <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.220|92.2.212.220]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.220|talk]]) 06:48, 18 July 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== “Undisputed” designs of Arthur Eisenmenger ==
Article text: “The official story of the design history of the euro sign is disputed by Arthur Eisenmenger, a former chief graphic designer for the EEC, whose claims to have had the idea before. Eisenmenger's undisputed design achievements include the flag of the European Union.” However, the [[European flag]] page says it was designed by Arsène Heitz. -[[User:Ahruman|Ahruman]] 07:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Gnomon says: Why not just change it to Arsene Heitz, then? I don't know how these things are done on Wikipedia. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.120.81.130|193.120.81.130]] ([[User talk:193.120.81.130#top|talk]]) 10:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)</small>

== THE EMPEROR HAS ARRIVED ==
I offer me to [[threat a servant to create|create]] & upload a SVG version of the euro design image. --[[User:Walter Humala|Walter Humala - Emperor of West Wikipedia]] 
[[Image:Crystal_Clear_app_korganizer.png|20px]][[user_talk:Walter_Humala||<span style="color:#00AA88;">wanna Talk?</span>]] 02:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

== Too many pictures? ==
Before an edit war ensues I thought I'd address this here... Do we think this article has too many illustrations piled together or do we think this is a positive thing? [[User:Tomsintown|Tomsintown]] 23:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

:I just think that the image in question is a nice picture and this article is the best place to place it. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 23:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

== Alain Billiet ==
Wy is [[Alain Billiet]] not mentioned? It is he that is the designer of the sign. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/80.201.146.151|80.201.146.151]] ([[User talk:80.201.146.151|talk]]) 18:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

[[Arthur Eisenmenger]] says that he is the designer.--[[User:Gloriamarie|Gloriamarie]] 04:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

==10 Other Currency Signs==
I'm curious to see what the other 10 designs were that voters chose from.  It would be interesting to add a link to pictures  in the article.  I took a quick look on a search engine but didn't find anything.  Does anyone have a link to those designs?[[User:Gloriamarie|Gloriamarie]] 21:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:So am I! Back in January 2006, I emailed [http://peter-diem.at Dr. Peter Diem], the author of the excellent research paper [http://peter-diem.at/The%20Symbols%20of%20Europe.pdf The Symbols of Europe], to see if he could help me on this since I couldn't find that info anywhere. He told me he couldn't find it also, but recommended me to [http://www.oenb.at/de/service_veranst/kontakt/kontakt.jsp#a14-81206 contact] the National Bank of Austria, saying that they were very knowledgeable with regard to the EURO. I did that, but their answer was: ''"regarding your request please contact directly the European Commission, which was responsible for the Euro symbol. http://europa.eu.int/comm/index_en.htm"''. After that I stopped my research, maybe you might want to finish it where I left it =). [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] 16:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

:If it hasn't happened in five years, I doubt it will happen now, but I'm also interested in the rejected designs. [[Special:Contributions/203.97.134.50|203.97.134.50]] ([[User talk:203.97.134.50|talk]]) 02:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

==US cent symbol in Ireland==
Removed "the American-style "¢" occasionally in Ireland" from the section referencing abbreviations for cent. There's no support for this statement given, and being Irish, having lived there my entire life, I've never once seen this. If it does occur, it's not notable and would be misleading.[[User:213.94.244.94|213.94.244.94]] 20:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

== Euro sign font ==
<div style="float:right; margin: 0 0 10px 10px; padding:40px; font-size:500%; font-family: Arial; background-color: #ddddff; border: 1px solid #aaaaff;">€</div>
<div style="float:right; margin: 0 0 10px 10px; padding:40px; font-size:500%; font-family: Times New Roman; background-color: #ddddff; border: 1px solid #aaaaff;">€</div> <div style="float:right; margin: 0 0 10px 10px; padding:40px; font-size:500%; font-family: Tahoma; background-color: #ddddff; border: 1px solid #aaaaff;">€</div>
[[Image:Euro logo plus character.png|thumb|300px|right|The euro [[logotype]] and its [[Character (computing)|character.]] ]]
Please provide some input as to which font to use in the blue box. I prefer sans-serif (Arial), simply because it matches the original design closest. Another editor disagrees, So I'm putting up for discussion here. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, how about the graphic that displays the sign in 9 different fonts? Wouldn't that be a nice compromise? It has them all! Besides, it would make the article a bit less messy. [[User:SergioGeorgini|SergioGeorgini]] 00:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::It certainly looks to me as if Arial is closer than Tahoma, looking at the top right --[[User:Rumping|Rumping]] ([[User talk:Rumping|talk]]) 06:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
:::What if there were two pictures side by side as the main illustration? One of the official blue-yellow logo and one of a hand-drawn € on a restaurant blackboard or something. It would cover both the official logotype and the typographical character which it spawned, not to mention showcase the contrast in one fell swoop. Would everybody be okay with that? [[User:SergioGeorgini|SergioGeorgini]] ([[User talk:SergioGeorgini|talk]]) 23:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

== 5€20? ==
Is there any basis for the claim that this is a common way to denote prices in Europe? I haven't seen it anywhere in Germany, France or England (the latter of which would not be an authority on usage of the symbol anyway). Maybe I'm just blind, but does anybody really use the Euro sign as seperator when the price includes cents? --&mdash; [[User:Ashmodai|Ashmodai]] <sup>([[User_talk:Ashmodai|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ashmodai|contribs]])</sup> 19:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

: It's very common in France. [http://www.orange.fr/ Orange] uses it (example on website, but may change obviously). [http://www.carrefour.fr/promotions/hypermarche/ Carrefour] uses it (ditto). They did the same with French francs (100F50) and still do with times (10h20). --- [[User:SergioGeorgini|SergioGeorgini]] ([[User talk:SergioGeorgini|talk]]) 00:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

:: Is it common anywhere outside France? Otherwise the claim is blatantly false. That'd be a national peculiarity rather than something common "in Europe". &mdash; [[User:Ashmodai|Ashmodai]] <sup>([[User_talk:Ashmodai|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Ashmodai|contribs]])</sup> 11:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

::: It's not false; it's vague. ''"In many other countries, including France and Germany, an amount such as €3.50 is often written as 3,50€ or 3€50 instead"'' is still technically correct, but obviously about as helpful as the sentence "some people are nice" would be in an article about social etiquette. The problem is that there are virtually no sources on this subject, at least I couldn't find any. A reliable source would be great if anyone has one. [[User:SergioGeorgini|SergioGeorgini]] ([[User talk:SergioGeorgini|talk]]) 01:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

:''In many other countries, including France and Germany, an amount such as €3.50 is often written as 3,50 € or 3€50 instead, largely following conventions for their former currencies.'' I agree that the statement is correct, but it is misleading. The reason Germans write 3,50 € rather than €3.50 is a '''linguistic''' convention. The decimal separator in German is ''',''' and all currency symbols are usually placed after the figure, so it's also ''3,50 $'' and ''3,50 £''. --[[Special:Contributions/85.181.232.4|85.181.232.4]] ([[User talk:85.181.232.4|talk]]) 11:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

::A typographic convention, surely. Anyway, I think it doesn't belong in the article at all, as it isn't at all related to the Euro Sign.  --[[User:Peterbruells|Peterbruells]] ([[User talk:Peterbruells|talk]]) 08:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:::You're both correct. It is a linguistic issue, albeit a singular one; in those languages where a currency sign is placed in front of the amount (e.g. English, Dutch), no other symbol's placement defies pronunciation like that. Moreover, in Austria, where German is spoken, the sign is also placed before the figure, but in Germany it is not. Finally, the sign was not — as the dollar and pound signs have been in their respective territories — historically a part of European vernacular, but instead artificially thrust upon the Eurozone in the late 1990s. In that process, in the sort of temporary myopia that so often overcomes the institution and as has been repeated multiple times, the EU declared that it would decide how the sign was to be used, right down to the color palette. This was mostly ignored, of course, but the point is that this new sign did bring along specific typographic/syntactical issues. So I personally do feel that it does deserve a mention, even if I agree that thee section could benefit from some serious rewording and/or condensing. Go ahead if you feel so inclined! [[User:SergioGeorgini|SergioGeorgini]] ([[User talk:SergioGeorgini|talk]]) 22:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Epsilon inspiration ==
Є is not a Greek epsilon. Is this an error by Wikipedia or by the creator of the Euro sign?--[[Special:Contributions/77.241.141.10|77.241.141.10]] ([[User talk:77.241.141.10|talk]]) 17:56, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
:The same symbol is on the [http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/the_euro/notes_coins8958_en.htm page that is the source of the citation]. So the error is not Wikipedia's. [[User:Svick|Svick]] ([[User talk:Svick|talk]]) 18:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

It is, in fact, an epsilon. It's a commonly used form of the letter epsilon (like the different versions of the letters "a" and "g"), technically called "Lunate Epsilon") -- for example, it's the form used in the font Lucida Sans Unicode, although the character used here is not actually an epsilon but a Cyrillic letter (I think?) that looks effectively the same. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon. It's safe to remove the "sic."  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/118.71.10.220|118.71.10.220]] ([[User talk:118.71.10.220|talk]]) 09:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Ɇ ==
Don't know if this is of any interest for the article on the euro sign, but apparently an early (1970s?) draft of a European single currency symbol looked more or less like a double-stroke E (see [http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/a-history-of-the-single-currency-1998-chapter-01-21-22/h61GiElQL9I4aUcnavoA2A]). [[File:Symbole_pré-euro.png|thumb|not quite a €]] ''Speculation-mode on: In my eyes this creation avoids some of the typographical problems that come with €, trading them in, however, for a complicated design. An alloglyph Ɇ would seem a natural evolution ...'' [[User:Anothername|Anothername]] ([[User talk:Anothername|talk]]) 17:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think that horror on the right is supremely ugly.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.139.87.39|82.139.87.39]] ([[User talk:82.139.87.39|talk]]) 07:52, 2 October 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Keyboard Combinations ==
Is [[Euro sign#Use on computers|the paragraph about key combinations]] necessary? It could never be full and comprehensive, since there are tons of layouts, languages etc. Besides, [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal|Wikipedia is not an instruction manual]]. —[[User:Volgar|Volgar]] ([[User_talk:Volgar|talk]]) 07:24, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== About a citation ==
>font designers made it clear that they intended to design their own variants instead.[4]

Citation [4] is just an e-mail discussion. Is there any way to know if these people are actually designers of broadly used fonts, and whether they actually wrote what [4] says they wrote? For evidence that designers ended up adapting the glyph to their font styles, wouldn't it be better to simply cite how the glyph appears in various broadly used fonts, like Book Antiqua, Times, Arial, Helvetica, and so on?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.139.87.39|82.139.87.39]] ([[User talk:82.139.87.39|talk]]) 07:55, 2 October 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Glyph design drawing is incorrect ==
The drawing that shows how the Euro sign is designed geometrically is incorrect. The drawing itself does not match the numbers displayed. Specifically, compare 7,5 (horizontal) to what is actually drawn.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.191.194.63|213.191.194.63]] ([[User talk:213.191.194.63|talk]]) 12:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Leading 0's, minus signs and when to spell numbers out ==
The following is on the "euro sign" page: "for example €0.05 or €–.05"

I believe there are two problems with this quote. First, why is there a leading 0 before 0.05, but not before -.05? The APA Style manual suggests having a leading 0 whenever a number could be greater than 1 or less than -1 (probabilities and correlations are bounded, and do not have a leading 0. So it should be -0.05 with the leading zero.

Second, it seems like the minus sign should come before the euro sign, i.e., –€0.05. Excel follows this convention. It should be addressed on the page.

I have another question about when to spell out numbers. APA suggests spelling out numbers less than 10 unless they are followed by a unit of measure. The example they give is "5-mg dose" as being correct. But what about currency. Is it correct to say "€5" or "five euros"? I assume that "€20" is correct but "twenty euros" is incorrect, since 20 is greater than 10.<small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ecmalthouse|Ecmalthouse]] ([[User talk:Ecmalthouse|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ecmalthouse|contribs]]) 19:53, 15 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

:I think a currency specifier is also a unit of measure, and when the APA said "followed by" they just forgot about preceding ones; the same rules should apply. [[Special:Contributions/71.41.210.146|71.41.210.146]] ([[User talk:71.41.210.146|talk]]) 04:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

The '-' is to show that nothing is in that digit place _not_ to show that the amount is negative. Consider this, often used on checks '--/00' instead of '00/00' or 'no more/oo' [[Special:Contributions/38.97.15.104|38.97.15.104]] ([[User talk:38.97.15.104|talk]]) 17:41, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

== 'Unspaced' ==
It is only one particular style that doesn't leave a space after the euro sign when it precedes the number. Other styles do leave a space (I am a translator, and I always leave a space).  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.2.223.242|92.2.223.242]] ([[User talk:92.2.223.242|talk]]) 08:39, 7 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== SVG code for euro symbol ==
You could extract it from [[:File:Euro_Construction.svg]], but in case it's of use to anyone here's a much smaller hand-built version of the official logo (the math to find the coordinates of the upper-right corner was fun).  If you're trying to follow, it starts on the leftmost corner of the lower horizontal bar and begins by going clockwise around the outside of the shape.  Also remember that SVG coordinates have positive Y down; negative Y is up.
<pre><?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN"
  "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1"
  viewBox="-7.5 -6 11.753378 12" style="background-color:#171976">
<title>Euro logo</title>
<desc>Offical euro logo</desc>
<path fill="#F7E017" d="M -7.5,1.5
l .415699,-1
H -5.979130
a 6,6 0 0,1 0,-1
H -7.5
l .415699,-1
H -5.809475
A 6,6 0 0,1 4.253378,-4.231876
L 3.830222,-3.213938
A 5,5 0 0,0 -4.769696,-1.5
H 3.117740
l -.415699,1
H -4.974937
a 5,5 0 0,0 0,1
H 2.286343
l -.415699,1
H -4.769696
A 5,5 0 0,0 3.830222,3.213938
V 4.618376
A 6,6 0 0,1 -5.809475,1.5
Z"/>
</svg></pre>

Here's an even smaller one drawn as three overlapping shapes, rather than one complex outline
<pre><?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN" 
  "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1"
  viewBox="-7.5 -6 11.753378 12" style="background-color:#171976">
<title>Euro logo</title>
<desc>Offical euro logo</desc>
<path fill="#F7E017" d="
M 3.830222,-3.213938
A 5,5 0 1,0 3.830222,3.213938
V 4.618376
A 6,6 0 1,1 4.253378,-4.231876
Z
M -7.5,-.5
l .415699,-1
H 3.117740
l -.415699,1
Z
M -7.5,1.5
l .415699,-1
H 2.286343
l -.415699,1
Z"/>
</svg></pre>

These require full SVG because the basic and tiny subsets don't support circular arcs in paths; they must be approximated by splines.

The background and foreground ("fill=") specifications are approximations to the official Pantone colours; obviously they can be deleted if you want basic black-on-white. [[Special:Contributions/71.41.210.146|71.41.210.146]] ([[User talk:71.41.210.146|talk]]) 12:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

== Should the article have a section covering computer character set support for Euro? ==
i.e. a list of character set configurations/standards on various computers which support Euro, e.g. 8859-15, 8859-16, IBM EBCDIC 1140 (37-2?), UCS2/UTF/Unicode, Microsoft code pages etc.  This information is spread across several articles currently (with some in this article in the text), would be useful to bring together to one place as an easy to use reference list (linking to relevant code pages).  Or could be in the See Also section.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.72.50.58|194.72.50.58]] ([[User talk:194.72.50.58#top|talk]]) 09:41, 6 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The article covers this to some extent, but native support for Unicode is ubiquitous now. It doesn't seem to be worth devoting more space than is already given over to the early days when Apple, Unix and Windows each chose a different code point. But if you feel like writing a history, have a go! --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 01:17, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

== NOT the official currency of the European Union (EU) ==
The Euro is NOT the official currency of the European Union. It is the official currency of the Euro Zone. The Euro Zone only includes a subset of the EU member states. I think this should be fixed with some information added to what the Euro Zone is.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.198.108.47|71.198.108.47]] ([[User talk:71.198.108.47#top|talk]]) 23:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yes, good call. Fixed. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 01:12, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dubious statement about design needing to  be similar to the ECU sign ==
I have tagged this statement as dubious
 The euro currency sign was designed to be similar in structure to the old sign for the [[European Currency Unit]] (encoded as {{nowrap|{{unichar|20A0}})}}.
and will delete unless someone produces a citation very soon. It is not cited and there is really no similarity between ₠ and € except maybe the top left corner of the C and the cross bar of the E, which are mere coincidences. It has more in common with an Italian Lira sign (₤). --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 06:33, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:As there has been not reply, let alone a citation, in nearly a month, I am deleting this claim. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

== Also eurosign, ευρωσύμβολο ==
<!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2a02:587:410e:ca26:4dee:7c1b:83ec:a3c1|2a02:587:410e:ca26:4dee:7c1b:83ec:a3c1]] ([[User talk:2a02:587:410e:ca26:4dee:7c1b:83ec:a3c1#top|talk]]) 20:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)</small>

== Entry methods ==
Trying to figure out how to type it in the Greek layout keyboard, I noticed that both combos AltGr+E and Ctrl+Alt+E work (in any text field, not only MS Word - I'm on Windows 10), meaning that "{{keypress|Ctrl|Alt|e}} in Microsoft Word in United States and more layouts" (as I updated now) should maybe be rephrased, as it seems to work with more layouts and outside of MS Word? Of course after people with different language layouts verify that.--[[User:Jimkats|Jimkats]] ([[User talk:Jimkats|talk]]) 12:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
:I suspect that detailing non-English (language) keyboards runs us into [[WP:NOTGUIDE]]? Was that what you had in mind?
:It may be that the explicit reference to MsWord is not needed any more? that this is a hangover from days when apps defined their own keyboard shortcuts so somewhere there may be an app where Ctrl+Alt+e is a shortcut to <u>E</u>dit or <u>E</u>xit or something. I think I remember reading somewhere ([[AltGr key]]?) that the AltGr key in Windows is functionally the same as Ctrl+Alt and Microsoft say "don't specify Ctrl+Alt for anything in your app because it won't work in half the world". --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 15:04, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

== Featured picture scheduled for POTD ==
Hello! This is to let editors know that [[:File:Euro Construction.svg]], a [[Wikipedia:Featured pictures|featured picture]] used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Picture of the day|picture of the day]] (POTD) for January 1, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at [[Template:POTD/2022-01-01]]. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the [[Main Page]].  If you have any concerns, please place a message at [[Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day]]. Thank you! [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 20:50, 27 December 2021 (UTC) <!-- Template:UpcomingPOTD -->
<div style="margin-top:4px; border:1px solid #ddcef2; background:#faf5ff; overflow:auto;"><div style="margin:0.6em 0.4em 0.1em;">{{POTD/Day|2022-01-01|excludeheader=yes}}</div></div>

== decimal comma or point ==

I remove the text that states that the point/period is used as decimal separator as utter fact.
the article itself uses two different notations, and the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_and_the_euro linked in the article has the comma as overwhelmingly prevalent.
some quick own research shows that in my native Netherlands, three out of the four well-known websites I checked use commas.
So at best the use is ambivalent. I don't feel qualified enough to replace the text with something that is closer to the truth, perhaps someone else can. For now, the text is at least no longer wrong.[[Special:Contributions/87.211.83.160|87.211.83.160]] ([[User talk:87.211.83.160|talk]]) 17:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

:Please read article [[Decimal separator]]. Whether a comma or a period is used is entirely a matter of national convention. [[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 17:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)