View source for Talk:Fecal incontinence

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{{FailedGA|03:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)|topic=Biology and medicine|page=1}}

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== First person speech ==

This article contains a lot of speech in the first person (you, yourself, etc). I have fixed some of those parts, but there is still some work missing. [[User:Rbarreira|Rbarreira]] 20:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I did not notice any remaining first person speech, so I removed the notice. --[[User:Driscoll|Driscoll]] 20:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

==Dietary==
The following text is deleted from the article because of tone of the refnotes and because if those belong on wikipedia at all then they belong on pages more specific to the products in question. --[[User:Una Smith|Una Smith]] ([[User talk:Una Smith|talk]]) 15:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Fecal incontinence is also a potential side-effect of medicines that prevent the absorption of dietary fats such as [[Orlistat]] and can also be caused by eating non-digestible oils or fats such as [[Olestra]].
<ref name=WP>{{cite news |first= |last= |authorlink= |coauthors= |title=Weighing a Pill For Weight Loss |url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/23/AR2006012301270.html |quote=While the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) still must approve the switch, the agency often follows the advice of its experts. If it does, [[Orlistat]] (xenical) -- currently sold only by prescription -- could be available over-the-counter (OTC) later this year. But it's important to know that the weight loss that's typical for users of the drug -- 5 to 10 percent of total weight -- will be less than many dieters expect. And many consumers may be put off by the drug's significant gastrointestinal side effects, including [[flatulence]], [[diarrhea]] and anal leakage. |publisher=[[Washington Post]] |date= |accessdate=2007-07-06 }}</ref> <ref name=CSPI>{{cite news |first= |last= |authorlink= |coauthors= |title= Frito-Lay Study: Olestra Causes "Anal Oil Leakage" |url=
http://www.cspinet.org/new/flaynal.html |quote=The Frito-Lay report states: "The anal oil leakage symptoms were observed in this study (3 to 9% incidence range above background), as well as other changes in elimination. ... Underwear spotting was statistically significant in one of two low level consumer groups at a 5% incidence above background." Despite those problems, the authors of the report concluded that olestra-containing snacks "should have a high potential for acceptance in the marketplace." |publisher=[[Center for Science in the Public Interest]] |date=Thursday, [[February 13]], [[1997]] |accessdate=2007-07-07 }}</ref> <ref name=NW>{{cite news |first= |last= |authorlink= |coauthors= |title=The Word Is 'Leakage'. Accidents may happen with a new OTC diet drug. |url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19263093/site/newsweek/ |quote=GlaxoSmithKline has a tip for people who decide to try Alli, the over-the-counter weight-loss drug it is launching with a multimillion-dollar advertising blitz—keep an extra pair of pants handy. That's because Alli, a lower-dose version of the prescription drug [[Xenical]], could (cue the late-night talk-show hosts) make you soil your pants. But while Alli's most troublesome side effect, anal leakage, is sure to be good for a few laughs, millions of people who are desperate to take off weight may still decide the threat of an accident is worth it. |publisher=[[Newsweek]] |date=[[June 25]], [[2007]] |accessdate=2007-06-21 }}</ref> <ref name=CSPI2/>

{{reflist-talk}}

== Alcoholism (severe cases) ==
This may also lead to F. I. (well, it's an open secret). Only thing I do not get is why this article doesn't mention alcohol in any way; of course, you can read "drugs" but most people would not call alcohol a "drug." I agree that it may be included into the "drugs" group; yet for the sake of clarity and readability, alcohol ought to be mentioned separately IMHO. -andy [[Special:Contributions/77.190.52.185|77.190.52.185]] ([[User talk:77.190.52.185|talk]]) 00:27, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
: evidence source? [[User:Tepi|tepi]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 03:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
::I think this might be more to do with loss of consciousness and reduced alertness than anything else...[[User:Lesion|<span style="color:maroon;">'''Lesion'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Lesion|<span style="color:maroon;">''talk''</span>]]) 11:34, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

==Definition in need of reworking? ==

This article's definition could be interpreted as vague and imprecise. E.g. what does regular control of the bowels mean? A patient could have irregular bowels without being incontinent. Whether there is a voluntary control or not is the key factor, and we should make this clear. Rather than involuntary excretion or leaking (whats the difference?) being common features, they are the defining features imo. Some other definitions I have read of FI I feel are better:

"the inability to control feces and to expel it at a proper place and at a proper time"
"the inability to prevent involuntary loss of bowel content"
"recurrent uncontrolled passage of fecal material in an individual with a developmental age of at least 4 years" [[User:Tepi|tepi]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 19:19, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

== Innapropriate/misleading language regarding risk of FI with anoreceptive intercourse? ==

Currently the article reads: "Another study among forty anoreceptive homosexual men and ten non-anoreceptive heterosexual men found a very significant increase in fecal incontinence (fourteen, or 35% amongst the anoreceptive men, and one, or 10% in the non-anoreceptive sample) amongst the anoreceptive sample.[12]"

Upon reading the study, 
"This study has revealed an excess of minor anal incontinence amongst anoreceptive homosexual men. Over a third of AR subjects reported some degree of anal incontinence or urgency of defaecation."

I feel the wording "very significant" is misleading. Either something is statistically significant or it is not. Furthermore, this is a very small cohort study and therefore its findings need considered with that in mind. [[User:Tepi|tepi]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 19:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

:These 2 studies are in the false order. First is 1993. There is lower maximal pressure within AR and for all with incontinence. 1997 shows only lower standard pressure with AR, the maximum pressure is not lower. Also he looked with ultrasonic and find no demage. So he write the lower pressure is from acclimatization. (sorry for my bad englisch) --[[User:Fg68at|Franz]] <small>(Fg68at) [[:de:Benutzer Diskussion:Fg68at|de:Talk]]</small> 02:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Apart from changing the order in which the studies are mentioned, how else to improve the wording in the article? The acclimatization  refers to physiological muscular acclimatisation to anorectal manipulation or a psychological difference in the way the groups reacted to manometry? [[User:Tepi|tepi]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 03:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

== Existing issues... ==

* surgical options need to be covered in full
* puborectalis sling diagram is poor, inaccurate as puborectalis is in continuity with the EAS in reality...anal canal shape is also weird...sphincters do not extend full length and not a uniform width tube.
* the subtypes of FI termed anal incontinence and fecal leakage were originally intended to be articles intheir own right, however I felt it was best to integrate them here in the end. This has lead to some repatition in etiology and treatment...maybe needs some work?
* is this page now too long?
[[User:Tepi|p &#61; 0.05]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 00:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
:I alerted [[WP:MED]] that this article needs their help.[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=522264110&oldid=522263466] [[Special:Contributions/108.60.139.170|108.60.139.170]] ([[User talk:108.60.139.170|talk]]) 01:23, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
::TY for help. I already checked on that project for any colorectal surgeons, unfortunately none. I will probably sort out the remainder of the issues myself soon, but any edits welcome, the list was more of an active to do list tbh. [[User:Tepi|lesion]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 12:19, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Confusion caused by the puborectalis sling diagram was raised during the PR...need new diagram? Article possibly now too long (not mentioned in PR). Apart from that, surgical options each have own section, and "types" section now merged into main sections. Ready for [[WP:GAN]] imo. [[User:Tepi|lesion]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 23:07, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

{{Talk:Fecal incontinence/GA1}}

== removed primary source ==

I am removing this source because it is primary and not significantly contributing to the article. Please feel free to re-add this info if it can be supported with a secondary source.[[User:Tepi|lesion]] ([[User talk:Tepi|talk]]) 15:54, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
*The randomized trial by Dehli ''et al''. compared injectable bulking agents with sphincter training with biofeedback, and found the former to be superior. The researchers concluded that both methods lead to improvement, but comparisons of St Mark's scores between the groups showed no difference between treatments.<nowiki><ref name="Dehli 2013">{{cite journal|last=Dehli|first=T|coauthors=Stordahl, A; Vatten, LJ; Romundstad, PR; Mevik, K; Sahlin, Y; Lindsetmo, RO; Vonen, B|title=Sphincter training or anal injections of dextranomer for treatment of anal incontinence: a randomized trial.|journal=Scandinavian journal of gastroenterology|date=2013 Jan 8|pmid=23298304}}</ref></nowiki>

==Types==
Surely "FL generally concerns disorders of IAS function ..." should read, "FI generally concerns disorders of IAS function ...", shouldn't it? [[User:Dawright12|Dawright12]] ([[User talk:Dawright12|talk]]) 17:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
:FL = "fecal leakage". This is a term some researchers have started using to describe incontinence of liquid stool. Since we only use the term once or twice in the article, I will remove the FL abbreviation since it is confusing. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:Lesion|<span style="color:maroon;">'''Lesion'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Lesion|<span style="color:maroon;">''talk''</span>]]) 14:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

== Colours in the diagram ==

It looks that the bones are green ... Why are the colours in the diagram this way?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.41.83.249|92.41.83.249]] ([[User talk:92.41.83.249|talk]]) 19:22, 19 May 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

'''External sphincters treatment - exercises most effective if not the only effective from www.proctoexercises.eu by John Kowalski.'''  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/46.187.178.119|46.187.178.119]] ([[User talk:46.187.178.119|talk]]) 08:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Japan Paragraph ==

Is this really needed?  Added May 2017.  Consider reversal.  [[User:Genehisthome|Genehisthome]] ([[User talk:Genehisthome|talk]]) 05:37, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

== Anal sex or anal object insertion ==

Nowhere in this article I see the text "anal sex", "anal intercourse", or "homosexual". Some argue that anal penetration (by penis or sex toy) eventually causes the sphincter muscles to become weakened or inoperative: "They postulate that anal sex may simply dilate and stretch the anal sphincter muscle and eventually cause damage to the muscles themselves, and/or cause sensory nerve damage leading to loss of sphincter sensation and control".<ref>http://retroflexions.com/the-informed-patient/is-anal-sex-a-good-idea-thoughts-from-a-gastroenterologist/</ref> I suggest adding information to the "Causes" section on anal penetration causing fecal incompetence. --[[User:NoToleranceForIntolerance|NoToleranceForIntolerance]] ([[User talk:NoToleranceForIntolerance|talk]]) 10:42, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

:It is addressed in the Anal canal section:

<blockquote>Rare causes of traumatic injury to the anal sphincters include military or traffic accidents complicated by pelvic fractures, spine injuries or perineal lacerations, '''insertion of foreign bodies in the rectum, and sexual abuse'''.[2]</blockquote>

:--[[User:Candide124|Candide124]] ([[User talk:Candide124|talk]]) 14:05, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

== Distinguishing between anal incontinence, fecal incontinence and flatulance incontinence ==

Currently [[Anal incontinence]] redirects to the [[Fecal incontinence]] article. I edited the first to be its own page, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Anal_incontinence&oldid=799627966 this revision], because there is an actual difference according to the source included. The revision was undone because to some AI and FI are the same. This is what the source has to say:

<blockquote>
"Anal incontinence (AI) may be defined as any involuntary loss of stool or gas via the anus.<sup>1</sup> Specifically, feacal incontinence (FI) is loss of stool, wheter liquid or solid."
</blockquote>

There are subjects with flatulance incontinence without fecal incontinence. Those with flatulance incontinence will not identify themselves with fecal incontinence, therfor it is import differentiate between anal incontinence, fecal incontinence and flatulance incontinence.

Currently there is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Fecal_body_odor draft for fecal body odor] and I wanted to redirected 'flatulance incontinence' to this article. Maybe splitting the 'fecal body odor' and 'flatulance incontinence' articles in the future.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Candide124|Candide124]] ([[User talk:Candide124#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Candide124|contribs]]) 21:10, 23 August 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Hello, you are correct that some sources seem to make a distinction between anal incontinence and fecal incontinence. 
:It seems the logic was that anal incontinence is loss of control of the sphincters. So, for example, a spinal injury. Hence loss of control of even gas (in terms of continence, it is easiest for the muscles to retain solids, but harder to retain liquids). Such sources contrast their definition of anal incontinence with "fecal incontinence" which may or may not be caused by loss of control of the sphincters. For example, some lesion which impairs the function of otherwise normal sphincters. 
:However, some other sources don't follow this definition of "anal incontinence", and instead define it as equivalent to "flatus incontinence". 
:Yet more sources do not seem to make any distinction, or avoid using the term "anal incontinence" completely, instead using a broader definition of fecal incontinence, stating that it may include involuntary loss of gas. From what I can see from looking at many sources, this last situation seems to the most common in the sources. This assertation is supported by consulting google ngram viewer, which shows that the term "fecal incontinence" is more common by about 8 times than "anal incontinence". Therefore I suggest keeping a single, broad definition in the intro and putting all the discussion of variation of terminology in the "types" section of the body of the article. [[User:Moribundum|Moribundum]] ([[User talk:Moribundum|talk]]) 10:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:I appreciate I am replying to a very old comment, but I'll make some observations incase these issues arise again in future: 
:In some internet forums of patients, there seems to be a popular idea of "fecal body odor" which is linked to IBS, constipation or "candida". From reading many sources on topics in this field, there is no real support for this idea in scientific sources. 
:* If there is abnormal body odor (not from the anus), it is termed [[bromhidrosis]]. 
:* If there is odor from the anus without any impairment in continence function, it is best to think of this in terms of [[rectal discharge]], or maybe [[obstructed defecation]] syndrome, depending on the exact cause. Here we are talking about failure of complete evacuation of stool for some reason, or some other process which is making bowel contents smell unusually bad (infections, and so on). 
:* If there is odor from the anus caused by impairment of continence, it should be thought of as part of this topic, [[fecal incontinence]]. 
:Making an article about "fecal body odor" is not really sensible since there are no scientific sources, and this term originates from non experts making their own theories in forums. 
:Splitting the idea of "flatulence incontinence" from the main FI article is not a good idea, in my opinion. Mainly for the reason that that term is even less commonly used than "anal incontinence" (see above comment). As supported by the FI sources, there is a spectrum of severity, and discussion of that "milder" form of FI is best done in the context of FI as a larger concept. [[User:Moribundum|Moribundum]] ([[User talk:Moribundum|talk]]) 10:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)