View source for Talk:Friedmann equations

{{WikiProject banner shell |class=C|1=
{{WikiProject Physics |importance=high |relativity=yes}}
{{WikiProject Russia |importance=High |sci=yes}}
{{WikiProject Astronomy|importance=Mid}}
}}
{{annual readership}}
{{Broken anchors|links=
* <nowiki>[[Shape of the universe#Spherical universe|hyperspherical]]</nowiki> Anchor [[Shape of the universe#Spherical universe]] links to a specific web page: [[Spherical geometry]]. The anchor (#Spherical universe) [[Special:Diff/625172538|has been deleted]]. <!-- {"title":"Spherical universe","appear":{"revid":100977642,"parentid":100972993,"timestamp":"2007-01-15T23:18:21Z","replaced_anchors":{"Flat Universe":"Flat universe","Spherical Universe":"Spherical universe","Hyperbolic Universe":"Hyperbolic universe"},"removed_section_titles":["Flat Universe","Spherical Universe","Hyperbolic Universe"],"added_section_titles":["Flat universe","Spherical universe","Hyperbolic universe"]},"disappear":{"revid":625172538,"parentid":625167247,"timestamp":"2014-09-12T00:53:53Z","removed_section_titles":["Compact spaces","Open or closed","Implications of curvature","Flat universe","Spherical universe","Hyperbolic universe","Other models"],"added_section_titles":["Compact spaces without boundary","Curvature","Universe with zero curvature","Universe with positive curvature","Universe with negative curvature","Curvature: Open or closed"]}} -->
* <nowiki>[[Shape of the universe#Hyperbolic universe|hyperbolic]]</nowiki> Anchor [[Shape of the universe#Hyperbolic universe]] links to a specific web page: [[Hyperbolic geometry]]. The anchor (#Hyperbolic universe) [[Special:Diff/625172538|has been deleted]]. <!-- {"title":"Hyperbolic universe","appear":{"revid":100977642,"parentid":100972993,"timestamp":"2007-01-15T23:18:21Z","replaced_anchors":{"Flat Universe":"Flat universe","Spherical Universe":"Spherical universe","Hyperbolic Universe":"Hyperbolic universe"},"removed_section_titles":["Flat Universe","Spherical Universe","Hyperbolic Universe"],"added_section_titles":["Flat universe","Spherical universe","Hyperbolic universe"]},"disappear":{"revid":625172538,"parentid":625167247,"timestamp":"2014-09-12T00:53:53Z","removed_section_titles":["Compact spaces","Open or closed","Implications of curvature","Flat universe","Spherical universe","Hyperbolic universe","Other models"],"added_section_titles":["Compact spaces without boundary","Curvature","Universe with zero curvature","Universe with positive curvature","Universe with negative curvature","Curvature: Open or closed"]}} -->
}}

==Inconsistent use of small k==

In F.E., as given in the article now (2019 Aug 29), the k is the inverse of the comoving radius of curvature squared (positive or negative), i.e. +-1/R^2 and has dimensions of L^-2. However, in paragraph below k is used as a SIGN of k. It should either be a new variable (usually designated kappa), or it should say k>0, k<0. ...  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:1BD0:8CD0:855:E16C:9983:EF9F|2600:1702:1BD0:8CD0:855:E16C:9983:EF9F]] ([[User talk:2600:1702:1BD0:8CD0:855:E16C:9983:EF9F#top|talk]]) 07:41, 29 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Context==
The author of this article says that the Friedmann equations relate certain cosmological parameters in the context of ''general relavity''.  I would like to modify this statement to say that these equations define certain ''cosmological models'' in [[general relativity]], usually called the ''Friedmann dusts''  (or ''matter dominated'' Friedmann models) and ''Friedmann radiation fluids'' (or ''radiation dominated'' Friedmann models).  The equations themselves arise in the course of deriving these models in a [[comoving coordinate chart]].

:Isn't "relating practical real parameters within a theoretical context" the same as a "model"? All anyone needs to do is be careful when referring to the "FLRW metric", as derived from GR assuming the Cosmological Principle, or when referring to the "FLRW model", when certain additional assumptions are made in order to arrive at practical solutions within the metric.

[[User:Kentgen1|Kentgen1]] ([[User talk:Kentgen1|talk]]) 13:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== Omega ==

I just hunted for 20 minutes and didn't find an article specifically on Omega, the density parameter.  I put in a blurb about it on the [[Omega]] page, and created two new redirect articles, [[density of the universe]] and [[density parameter]].  I feel Omega deserves its own page, but I can't do it.  --[[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 13:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

:Or it could go under either [[Omega (cosmology)]] or [[Omega (astronomy)]].  --[[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 13:47, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

::I agree that we need an [[Omega (cosmology)]] article, and [[density parameter]] should redirect to it instead of this page.  I also can't do it now, but maybe at the end of this semester. --[[User:Keflavich|Keflavich]] 01:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

::: Shouldn't "Density of the Universe" have its own page with discussion of:
-Variation in density.

-large scale variation and structure ~ link to page.

-Talk about steady state universe's that call for creation of matter to maintain constant density of universe.

== Development ==
There should be some more development of where the equations come from.  I may add some straightforward derivation.
[[User:Alejandr013|Alejandr013]] 21:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to include the actual value of the cosmic density of matter here.  I've been searching the web for days trying to find a value, it seems to be one of the values that everybody else knows but never bothers to write down.  AJH  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/210.98.27.91|210.98.27.91]] ([[User talk:210.98.27.91|talk]]) 10:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== speed of light ==

I may be braindead, but I can't for the life of me see how ''&rho;'' and <math>p/c^2</math> have the same units. &ndash;[[User:Joke137|Joke]] 02:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

''&rho;'' is density, Kilograms over Meters cubed ''&rho;''=:<math>\frac{Kg}{m^3}</math>

<math>p/c^2</math> is Pressure over velocity squared, or Force over area over velocity squared so
:<math>\frac{p}{c^2} = \frac{F}{Ac^2}=\frac{F/A}{(m/s)^2}=\frac{\frac{Kg*(m/s^2)}{m^2}}{(m/s)^2}=\frac{kg}{m^3}</math>
Differentiating ''&rho;'', P, and p in physics can be difficult (did you catch the pun?).  I thought it was standard to put pressure P capitalized and p little as momentum, and rho as density. '''What are the conventions on Wikipedia?'''
[[User:Alejandr013|Alejandr013]] 20:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

::I think you left out a <math>c^2</math> factor at the beginning -- I've taken the liberty of correcting it.  Yes, it all comes down to the naming conventions for GR.  Is <math>\rho</math> the ''mass'' density or the ''energy'' density?  In non-GR physics <math>\rho</math> is normally mass density, but since c=1 is normally set by [[Geometrized unit system]] it doesn't matter most of the time.  Of course a general audience will not necessarily know of these unit conventions -- and according to WP policy articles should written with the general public in mind as well as the experts.  

::There is an unoffical set of naming conventions in GR: [[User:Hillman/WikiProject GTR/Policies]]. --[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 01:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The <math>\rho</math> which appears in the equations is mass-density, as noted above, but later in the article there is talk of energy density and vacuum energy. This is confusing, at least it was to me; the first time I read it I assumed <math>\rho</math> was indeed energy density, but then noticed the dimensions of the equation wouldn't balance. I think it should be clarified by specifically saying 'mass density' when &rho; is introduced. Or, perhaps by changing to <math>\rho</math> being energy density which seems to be used on other pages (''e.g.'' [[cosmological constant]]). Then the term becomes
:<math>\frac{4\pi G}{c^2}\left(\rho_e + 3p\right)</math>
The subscript e for energy density would be nice, but I guess this is no place to introduce new notation? [[User:E4mmacro|E4mmacro]] 04:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

A bit late in way of reply, but to clarify, <math>\rho c^2</math> is the energy density; <math>\rho </math> is the energy density divided by <math>c^2</math>; it is not the `mass density'. In `usual' units of <math>c=1</math>, <math>\rho </math> is referred to as the energy density. See Coles and Lucchin, The Origin and Evolution of Cosmic Structure, for example.
[[Special:Contributions/129.78.56.231|129.78.56.231]] ([[User talk:129.78.56.231|talk]]) 07:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

== mistake ==

I think, there is a mistake in the equations from the beginning. Instead of '''a<sup>2</sup>''' in the last term on the  r.h.s. there should be '''R<sup>2</sup>''', where '''R''' = '''R(t)''' = '''a(t)'''.'''R<sub>0</sub>'''. The dimension of the first equation is then '''s<sup>-2</sup>'''- same for all terms on the left and right hand side of the equation...

[[User:Whoplaysdice|Whoplaysdice]] 09:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

:If you are speaking of this equation:
::<math>H^2 \equiv \left(\frac{\dot{a}}{a}\right)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G \rho + \Lambda}{3} - K\frac{c^2}{a^2}</math>,
:then the right-most term already has units of reciprocal seconds squared. The [[Gaussian curvature]] when ''a''=1, ''K'' has units of reciprocal meters squared. ''c'' has units of meters per second. ''a'' has units of one (i.e. arbitrary units or unit-less). So it is: ''m''<sup>-2</sup>&middot;''m''<sup>2</sup>''s''<sup>-2</sup>1 = ''s''<sup>-2</sup>. Is that OK? [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] 10:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation very much. I haven't noticed that K has units of reciprocal meters squared... I'm sorry. 
[[User:Whoplaysdice|Whoplaysdice]] 10:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

:As a matter of fact, if the curvature is constant within a polygon, the area of the polygon times that curvature is just the "spherical" excess (in radians) of the sum of the interior angles of the polygon relative to the value in Euclidean space. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] 04:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

::In the article and everywhere else, k ist dimensionless -1, 0 or 1. Using here K=1/R²=(H/c)² instead of k makes sense. '''Who dares to correct it'''? There are so many places with ''k'' in the article. [[User:Ra-raisch|Ra-raisch]] ([[User talk:Ra-raisch|talk]]) 18:15, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

== Expansion lowers temperature ==

{{user|E.pajer}} added a new section [[Friedmann equations#Useful solutions]]. The equation of state for the perfect fluid appeared to be the [[ideal gas law]]. But then I realized that the "constant" ''w'' is proportional to the [[absolute temperature]]. However, the temperature of a gas decreases when it expands, see [[Adiabatic cooling]]. So the equation should probably be corrected to account for the decrease in temperature. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 14:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

: Uh, no, ''w'' is not proportional to ''T''. For simple models ("dust", "radiation", etc) ''w'' is constant and luckily these models are quite good approximations to the real universe for quite long periods of its history. Only when ''w'' is independent of ''T'' (or equivalently of ''a'') do we get nice closed-form solutions. Of course the real universe is a mixture of dust, radiation, dark energy etc but usually one dominates. Only when there is a cross-over between cases does the effective value of ''w'' change significantly, which happens relatively quickly (especially on a log-log plot!). [[User:PaddyLeahy|PaddyLeahy]] ([[User talk:PaddyLeahy|talk]]) 12:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

::To Paddy: Thanks for clarifying that. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 13:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

==Simpler 2nd equation==
The 2nd equation:
:<math>\dot{H} + H^2 \equiv \frac{\ddot{a}}{a} =  -\frac{4 \pi G}{3}\left(\rho+\frac{3p}{c^2}\right) + \frac{\Lambda c^2}{3},</math>
could be replaced by:
:<math>\dot{\rho} = -3 H (\rho + \frac{p}{c^2}),</math>
which eliminates <math>\Lambda ,</math>

The original 2nd equation can be recovered, when combined with the 1st equation.  Any objections to replacing the 2nd equation with this?
--[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 10:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

:That is equivalent, so we might want to mention it in the article. However, the original second equation has historical significance; and it is named the "Friedman's acceleration equation". So I think we must retain it. Remember that the equations given emerge more or less directly from [[Einstein field equations]]. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 11:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

==Mistake==
There appears to be a minor error near the beginning of the article where it states that k is the normalized curvature parameter at a=1. It is not defined at a=1 at all; k is the ratio of the modulus squared of a, divided by a squared. That is how it appears in my lecture notes from Imperial College. If my notes are wrong then someone should correct me before next Wednesday when I have a 'Particle Cosmology' exam there! In the meantime, I'll simply remove the "at a=1" bit of the sentence. [[User:Dazza79|Dazza79]] ([[User talk:Dazza79|talk]]) 21:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

:I reverted your edit because the text was correct as it stood. Obviously, I cannot read your notes, so I cannot comment on them. But you should bear in mind that different authors use different notations, different definitions for ''a'', ''k'', etc.. It is imperative that the notation in the article be consistent with itself, not that it be consistent with your notes. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 00:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

::I agree with Dazza79; k = +/-1 or 0 is how k is normalised by rescaling a, according to whether the universe is closed, open or flat. --[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 05:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

:::To MichaelCPrice: One can only choose ''k'' to be one of those three specific values by sacrificing the connection of ''a'' to the present which also means that ''R''<sub>0</sub> would not be the present day <u>radius of</u> curvature. This is not helpful, in my opinion. Adjusting the variables so that the present has a special status is appropriate because, for us who live in the present, it is special. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 21:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how renormalising 'k' removes the connection of 'a' to the present? What exactly do you mean by this phrase? The FRW metric for example contains both a 'k' and an 'a(t)'. So surely I am free to choose any value of a, at any time t, including the present, irrespective of my choice of +/-1 or 0 for k. If I choose a=1 to be the present, and k happens to be -1 say, then at a=2 k will still be -1. So how does my renormalised choice of -1 for the value of k affect the value of a? It should be totally independent. Or put another way, If I live in an open universe today I will still be living in an open universe tomorrow. 'a' can be as small or large as you like and the rescaled value of k remains the same. Yet the way I'm reading the article I get the impression that, with the wording as it stands, 'k' has the value it has now only at the present time. So if it is -1 today, it might be 0 at some point in the future? [[User:Dazza79|Dazza79]] ([[User talk:Dazza79|talk]]) 22:54, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

:To Dazza79: Let the cosmological constant and the equation of state for the contents of the universe both be fixed; and assume that the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, i.e. it has a [[Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker metric]]. Then the possible instantaneous states (time slices) of the universe form a two-parameter class. The first parameter amounts to choosing a time for the time-slice. You may use any of <math>t, a, H\,</math> (among others) for it. The second parameter describes the spacetime continuum as a whole. When the spatial curvature is positive, the second parameter amounts to choosing the minimal spatial curvature, i.e. the spatial curvature when <math>H = 0\,</math>. Since the second parameter varies continuously, it cannot be represented correctly by ''k'' if ''k'' is restricted to have values in the discrete set {-1, 0, +1}.
:You asked what can stop you from choosing ''a'' and ''k'' to be anything you want? Well, what if I want ''k'' to be a real number other than -1, 0, or +1; perhaps +4.37? [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 05:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

::OK. Then I think the word 'normalised' in the article is out of place. If 'k' can vary continuously, then it is not the normalised spatial curvature is it? Seeing the word normalised made me assume that we were taking the often used convention of putting k = +/-1 or 0. Let's simply call it the spatial curvature. I will edit the article accordingly. If you disagree, then my next question is how would you distinguish between the normalised spatial curvature as described above, and the k=+/-1, 0 spatial curvature, which I would certainly describe as normalised? [[User:Dazza79|Dazza79]] ([[User talk:Dazza79|talk]]) 07:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Looks good to me: now reads "k is the spatial curvature when a = 1 (i.e. today)". As currently written, k is clearly a dimensional quantity (inverse length squared), so it is only "normalised" in the sense that it applies now, which is already stated. Therefore 'normalised' was at least redundant if not wrong, and certainly misleading. [[User:PaddyLeahy|PaddyLeahy]] ([[User talk:PaddyLeahy|talk]]) 17:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
::::OK. I agree with dropping "normalised". [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 05:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Hawking & Ellis' ''Large Scale Structure of Space-Time'', have k = +1, 0 or -1 and called this value "normalized".--[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 07:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Surely we can remove all references to ''R'' and ''R''<sub>0</sub> by simply stating that ''a'' is the hyper-radius of the model universe?  To explain the origin of the ''k'' term in the equation we need simply note that for a static hypersphere the Riemann curvature term is <math>6 k \frac{c^2}{a^2}</math>, where k = +/-1 or 0 etc.  This makes it very easy to see why k = 0 in the flat example, since a -> infinity when flat, and k = -1 is simply a -> ia for the hyperbolic case. --[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 07:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

:Why would we want to remove such references? IMHO the article would be incomplete without making clear what these terms mean, since very frequently (as in Dazza79's lecture notes) the Friedman equation is written in terms of R rather than a. [[User:PaddyLeahy|PaddyLeahy]] ([[User talk:PaddyLeahy|talk]]) 14:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::I personally find it clearer to just talk in terms of ''a'' and not ''R'', but each according to their taste.  There's no reason why we can't have both explanations.  BTW I think the current explanation of k is totally confusing (and non-standard -- see note below about MWT and HE).  The current explanation states that k is the spatial curvature ''today'', leaving unanswered what it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.  (You may think that the next two sentences clears everything up, but I disagree.) Anyway, I leave that clarification to others.  
::Any objections to a statement that ''a'' can also be interpreted as the hyper-radius, in which case k is restricted to +/-1 or 0?  --[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 17:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The standard references, Misner, Wheeler & Thorne's ''Gravitation'' and Hawking & Ellis' ''Large Scale Structure of Space-Time'', have k = +1, 0 or -1; HE even called its value "normalized".--[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 07:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

How nice of JRSpriggs to revert my changes, without explanation here.  Charming as ever.  I trust an explanation of quite how my changes were "mistaken" will be appearing at some point.--[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 19:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:My GR notes by Ray d'Inverno include the comment in the Robertson-Walker metric section 6, subsection 2, "k=+1 ..... The space is closed .... This is why in this case R(t) is often referred to as the 'radius of the universe'." before going on to give the Friedman equations in terms of same k & R. --[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 07:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

==MichaelCPrice's mistakes==
* "<math>k \over a^2</math> is one-sixth of the spatial component of the [[scalar curvature]]"<br>
The scalar curvature, ''R'', is a <u>scalar</u> and as such it has only one component which cannot reasonably be called "spatial".
* "<math>a</math> and <math>k</math> have two possible equivalent definitions"<br>
Even if the definitions which follow this are inter-convertible, they are not equivalent because they yield different values for ''k'' and ''a''.
* It is not reasonable to call ''a'' the radius of curvature of the universe when ''k''=0 because in that case the radius of curvature is either infinite or, more correctly, undefined. 
[[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 13:38, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
*Well of course they yield different values for '''k''' and '''a''', as explained in the text, but <math>k \over a^2</math> is invariant and is what appears in the equation.  Your point is what precisely?
*For an isotropic homogeneous universe, modeled as a [[3-sphere]] with radius '''a''', we have :<math>R = \frac{6}{a^2}(\ddot{a} a + \dot{a}^2 + kc^2)</math>. k = 1 for sphere, -1 for a hyperboloid. The spatial component refers to the last term.  Perhaps you can suggest a better description?
*It is well understood, even by beginners, that Euclidean geometry corresponds to a surface of a sphere of infinite radius.
--[[User:MichaelCPrice|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:MichaelCPrice|talk]]</sup> 15:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

==Ambiguous Spelling: Friedmann or Friedman==
Throughout the article, his name is spelled two different ways. I think it would be better if we settled on a single spelling; ideally, the same way he did. Apparently, he spelled it with a single 'n', "'''Friedman'''". I've hunted around on the web, a bit, and found what I think could be a good reference. It appears to be an image of the title page of one of his papers: http://www.springerlink.com/content/l23864w241673530/fulltext.pdf?page=1  [[User:McGinnis|Michael McGinnis]] ([[User talk:McGinnis|talk]]) 19:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

:Of his two famous papers, the earlier one (which you linked) spells it Friedman, and the later one ([http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF01328280]) spells it Friedmann. The "Friedmann" spelling is overwhelmingly more common in modern physics papers, and it's also the spelling used in every online encyclopedia I checked except Wikipedia, so I think we should stick with "Friedmann", and I think the article on the man himself should be moved as well. -- [[User:BenRG|BenRG]] ([[User talk:BenRG|talk]]) 13:13, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

::Actually, his name is "Алекса́ндр Алекса́ндрович Фри́дман" in Russian. The final three characters "ман" transliterate as "man". However, we are supposed to use the name by which most English speaking readers would know him, according to [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use the most easily recognized name]]. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 01:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

:::Thank you, BenRG and JRSpriggs, for clearing this up for me. I do feel that a consistent spelling is needed, if only to reduce the possibility of confusion for people who might think that "Friedman" and "Friedmann" are two different people. I'm going to change all references to "Friedmann".[[User:McGinnis|Michael McGinnis]] ([[User talk:McGinnis|talk]]) 19:58, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Mistake on Copernican Principle ==

Hi all!

I suspect the statement "There are serious consequences if homogeneity and isotropy (the Copernican Principle) are not quite true, [...]" is incorrect. The Copernican Principle states that the Earth does not occupy any particular position in the Universe. What the author refers to is the Cosmological Principle, which states that the Universe is isotropic about all locations and homogeneous.
For a reference, please see Peacock's "Cosmological Physics" on page 66:

"[...] most scientists believe that
it is not reasonable to adopt a cosmological model in which the universe is simply a
joke played for the benefit of mankind. This attitude is encapsulated in the Copernican
principle, which states that humans are not privileged observers."

This definition is much more compatible with what Copernicus did actually discover, namely that the Sun and not the Earth was at the center of the Solar System.

There is a certain confusion about this topic in the scientific community. Me too I was confused about the various definitions, until I read pages 65-66 of Peacock's book. They are an eye-opener.

Cheers,

Guido  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Coccoinomane|Coccoinomane]] ([[User talk:Coccoinomane|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Coccoinomane|contribs]]) 08:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I implemented the above proposed change. I also added the following clarifying line:
:"Notice, however, that the mainstream of Cosmological research endorses a homogeneous and isotropic Universe on scales larger than ~100 Mpc." I think it is correct to inform the reader of this.

:Cheers,

:Guido
:[[User:Coccoinomane|Coccoinomane]] ([[User talk:Coccoinomane|talk]]) 08:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

== Kentgen1's additions ==

To {{user|Kentgen1}}: See [[Help:Section]]. Heading for sections, subsections, subsubsections, etc. should be created using equals signs on either side of the title. For example, "<nowiki>==Your&nbsp;title&nbsp;here==</nowiki>" generates a section title "Your title here" when left-justified on a line. Thus your use of bold-face text to create a title (e.g. "Caveats to the Use of the Friedmann Equations to Model the Universe") is inappropriate. Also, it is preferred to use tripled single quotation marks to delimit '''bold-face''' rather than <nowiki><b> and </b></nowiki>.

We do ''not'' assume that the matter in the universe is an ideal gas. I do not know how you reached the conclusion that we so assume.

If the Earth were at the center of a large spherical void within a denser surrounding, that would not cause the matter near the edge of the void to accelerate away from us. Thus this is not an alternative explanation for the acceleration due to the [[cosmological constant]].

The deviation of gravitational potential field from its background value is proportional to 1/''r''. The resulting gravitational force field (gradient of the potential) is proportional to 1/''r''<sup>2</sup>. This holds for ordinary celestial bodies as well as super-massive black-holes (outside the near field effect); there is no distinction between types of bodies in this respect. I do not see how you get that this would cause a violation of the [[cosmological principle]] which has to do with average behavior. That is, the homogeneity and isotropy are understood to be approximations which hold best at large scales.

Yes, the universe is [[adiabatic]] ''because'' there is no external system to exchange heat with or do work upon. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 07:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:'''Third opinion''': Edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Friedmann_equations&diff=371246569&oldid=370759009 this] are unacceptable because of their disruptive nature. There is simply no reason to put Wikipedia links inline like that. But even beyond that, there's a lack of [[WP:RS|reliable sourcing]] overall. Consider the text:
::"The equations also rely on the simplification that the substance of the universe may be treated like an ideal fluid or gas. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLRW_metric , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law )"
:Wiki articles are not considered reliable, so how is the conclusion that the equations rely on that "simplification" drawn? If we could find some actual sources to back that up then at least the issue could be discussed, but until then it seems to be Kentgen's [[WP:OR|original research]] on the topic. — [[User:HelloAnnyong|'''<span style="color: #aaa">Hello</span><span style="color: #666">Annyong</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:HelloAnnyong|(say whaaat?!)]]</sup> 19:14, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:'''Fourth opinion''' : the ideal gas law is not assumed.  If it was then the pressure would not appear as a free variable to be solved for. Kentgen's [[WP:OR|original research]] is incorrect. --[[User:Michael C Price|Michael C. Price]] <sup>[[User talk:Michael C Price|talk]]</sup> 22:57, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

== Derivation of simplified Friedmann equations ==

Since issues have repeatedly arisen concerning the origin of the equations and the correct values of the constants in them, I think it would be helpful to derive them here. For simplicity, I will focus on the special case when ''k''<sup>2</sup>≈0 and &Lambda;=0. Any components of tensors or pseudo-tensors omitted below are zero. Assume that
:<math> ds^2 = - c^2 dt^2 + {a(t)}^2 ( dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 + dw^2 ) \,</math>
with
:<math> w = \sqrt{ k^{-1} - ( x^2 + y^2 + z^2 ) } \,.</math>
Then
:<math> dw = \frac{ -2 x dx -2 y dy -2 z dz }{ 2 w } \,.</math>
:<math> dw^2 = \frac{ ( x dx + y dy + z dz )^2 }{ w^2 } = \frac{ k ( x dx + y dy + z dz )^2 }{ 1 - k ( x^2 + y^2 + z^2 ) } \approx k ( x dx + y dy + z dz )^2 \,.</math>
So the [[metric tensor (general relativity)]] is given by
:<math> g_{0 0} = - c^2 \, ; \quad g_{i j} \approx a^2 ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) \,</math>
where it is understood that ''a'' is a function of time only. Thus
:<math> g^{0 0} = - c^{-2} \, ; \quad g^{i j} \approx a^{-2} ( \delta_{i j} - k x^i x^j ) \,.</math>
The partial derivatives of the metric are
:<math> g_{i j , 0} \approx 2 a \dot{a} ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) \,</math>
:<math> g_{i j , m} \approx k a^2 ( \delta_{i m} x^j + x^i \delta_{j m} ) \,.</math>
The [[Christoffel symbol]] is defined by
:<math> \Gamma^\alpha_{\beta \gamma} = {1 \over 2} g^{\alpha \sigma} ( g_{\sigma \beta, \gamma} + g_{\gamma \sigma, \beta} - g_{\beta \gamma, \sigma} ) \,.</math>
So
:<math> \Gamma^0_{i j} \approx c^{-2} a \dot{a} ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) \,.</math>
:<math> \Gamma^i_{0 j} = \Gamma^i_{j 0} \approx a^{-1} \dot{a} \delta_{i j} \,.</math>
:<math> \Gamma^i_{j m} \approx k x^i \delta_{j m} \,.</math>
:<math> \Gamma^\rho_{\rho 0} \approx 3 a^{-1} \dot{a} \,.</math>
:<math> \Gamma^\rho_{\rho i} \approx k x^i \,.</math>
The [[Ricci curvature tensor]] is defined by
:<math> R_{\alpha\beta} = \partial_{\rho}{\Gamma^\rho_{\beta\alpha}} - \partial_{\beta}\Gamma^\rho_{\rho\alpha} + \Gamma^\rho_{\rho\lambda} \Gamma^\lambda_{\beta\alpha} - \Gamma^\rho_{\beta\lambda}\Gamma^\lambda_{\rho\alpha} \,.</math>
So
:<math> R_{0 0} \approx 0 - 3 ( a^{-1} \ddot{a} - a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 ) + 0 - 3 a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 = - 3 a^{-1} \ddot{a} \,.</math>
:<math> R_{0 i} = R_{i 0} \approx 0 - 0 + k a^{-1} \dot{a} x^i - k x^i a^{-1} \dot{a} = 0 \,.</math>
:<math> R_{i j} \approx [ c^{-2} ( \dot{a}^2 + a \ddot{a} ) ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) + 3 k \delta_{i j} ] - k \delta_{i j} + 3 c^{-2} \dot{a}^2 ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) - 2 c^{-2} \dot{a}^2 ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) = c^{-2} ( 2 \dot{a}^2 + a \ddot{a} ) ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) + 2 k \delta_{i j} \,.</math>
:<math> R = g^{\alpha \beta} R_{\alpha \beta} \approx 3 c^{-2} a^{-1} \ddot{a} + 3 c^{-2} ( 2 a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) + 6 a^{-2} k = 6 c^{-2} ( a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) + 6 a^{-2} k \,.</math>
The [[Einstein field equations]] (without &Lambda;) are
:<math>R_{\mu \nu} - {1 \over 2}g_{\mu \nu}\,R = {8 \pi G \over c^4} T_{\mu \nu} \,</math>
which give
:0 0: <math> - 3 a^{-1} \ddot{a} - {1 \over 2} ( - c^2 ) [ 6 c^{-2} ( a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) + 6 a^{-2} k ] = 3 a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + 3 c^2 a^{-2} k \approx {8 \pi G \over c^4} \rho c^4 \,.</math>
:0 i or i 0: 0 ≈ 0.
:i j: <math>  c^{-2} ( 2 \dot{a}^2 + a \ddot{a} ) ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) + 2 k \delta_{i j} - {1 \over 2} ( a^2 ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) ) [ 6 c^{-2} ( a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) + 6 a^{-2} k ] = c^{-2} ( - \dot{a}^2 - 2 a \ddot{a} ) ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) - k \delta_{i j} \approx {8 \pi G \over c^4} p a^2 ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) \,.</math>
These simplify to
:<math> a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + c^2 a^{-2} k \approx { 8 \pi G \over 3 } \rho \,</math> ( which is the first Friedmann equation )
:<math> ( - a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 - 2 a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) - c^2 a^{-2} k \approx {8 \pi G \over c^2} p \,.</math>
If we add these together, we get
:<math> - 2 \frac{\ddot{a}}{a} \approx {8 \pi G \over 3} \left( \rho + \frac{3 p}{c^2} \right) \,</math>
that is
:<math> \frac{\ddot{a}}{a} \approx {- 4 \pi G \over 3} \left( \rho + \frac{3 p}{c^2} \right) \,</math>
which is the second Friedmann equation. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 08:42, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

:thank for writing this new section. but how does ''dw'' arise in metric? spherical coordinates transfom to Cartesian coordinates?[[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 14:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

::The assumption of [[Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric]] is that our three dimensional space is a hyper-sphere in a four dimensional space (with time added later). ''w'' is the extra dimension in that four dimensional space and it is characterized by <math>k^{-1} = (\text{radius of curvature of spatial slice when a=1})^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 + w^2 \,.</math> Which coordinate system we use for the three-space does not affect the result, so I just chose what I thought would be the most convenient one. The coordinates I chose are the Cartesian coordinates t,x,y,z associated with the reduced-circumference polar coordinates. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 14:31, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
:::Greek indices vary over 0,1,2,3. Roman indices vary over 1,2,3. ''x''<sup>1</sup>,''x''<sup>2</sup>,''x''<sup>3</sup> refer to ''x'',''y'',''z'' respectively.
:::If you doubt any step or do not understand it, please indicate the first such questionable step and I will attempt to explain it or fix it. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 08:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
:thank you, i got it. Your derivation is nice. :)[[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 10:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The trace of the [[Einstein field equations]] (which is independent of the choice of the spatial coordinates) is
:<math> - R = {8 \pi G \over c^4} T \,</math>
:<math> - [ 6 c^{-2} ( a^{-2} \dot{a}^2 + a^{-1} \ddot{a} ) + 6 a^{-2} k ] = {8 \pi G \over c^4} ( - c^2 \rho + 3 p ) \,</math>
:<math> \frac{ \dot{a}^2 }{ a^2 } + \frac{ \ddot{a} }{ a } + \frac { k c^2 }{ a^2 } = { - 4 \pi G \over 3 } \left( - \rho + \frac{ 3 p }{ c^2} \right) \,</math>
which can be combined with the first Friedmann equation to get the second. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 08:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

=== Deriving the continuity equation (conservation of energy) ===
The time derivative of (00 component)
:<math> \frac{\dot{a}^2}{a^2} + \frac{kc^2}{a^2} = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho \,</math>
is
:<math> \frac{2\dot{a}\ddot{a}}{a^2} - \frac{2\dot{a}^3}{a^3} - \frac{2kc^2\dot{a}}{a^3} = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \dot{\rho} \,.</math>
Substituting in
:<math> \frac{\ddot{a}}{a} =  -\frac{4 \pi G}{3}\left(\rho+\frac{3p}{c^2}\right) \,</math>
gives
:<math> - H \frac{8 \pi G}{3}\left(\rho+\frac{3p}{c^2}\right) - 2 H \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \dot{\rho} \,.</math>
Throwing out the common factor gives
:<math> - H \left(\rho+\frac{3p}{c^2}\right) - 2 H \rho = \dot{\rho} \,,</math>
that is,
:<math> \dot{\rho} = - 3 H \left(\rho+\frac{p}{c^2}\right) \,</math>
which is the continuity equation. This says that the reduction in the mass in a volume is equal to the amount that moves out its sides due to the expansion of the universe plus the mass equivalent of the energy expended by pressure pushing that mass out. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 08:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

As a check, I will derive the continuity equation by another method. In general, it takes the form
:<math>0 = T^{\mu \nu}{}_{;\nu} = T^{\mu \nu}{}_{,\nu} + T^{\sigma \nu} \Gamma^{\mu}{}_{\sigma \nu} + T^{\mu \sigma} \Gamma^{\nu}{}_{\sigma \nu} \,</math>
as indicated at [[stress–energy tensor]]. In our case, the stress-energy of a fluid at rest is
:<math> T^{0 0} = \rho \,;\quad T^{i j} = p \, g^{i j} \approx p \, a^{-2} ( \delta_{i j} - k x^i x^j ) \,.</math>
Thus the time component is
:<math>0 = T^{0 \nu}{}_{;\nu} = T^{0 \nu}{}_{,\nu} + T^{\sigma \nu} \Gamma^{0}{}_{\sigma \nu} + T^{0 \sigma} \Gamma^{\nu}{}_{\sigma \nu} \,</math>
:<math>0 \approx \dot{\rho} + p \, a^{-2} ( \delta_{i j} - k x^i x^j ) \, c^{-2} a \dot{a} ( \delta_{i j} + k x^i x^j ) + \rho \, 3 a^{-1} \dot{a} \,</math>
:<math>0 \approx \dot{\rho} + 3 p c^{-2} a^{-1} \dot{a} + 3 \rho a^{-1} \dot{a} \,</math>
:<math> \dot{\rho} \approx - 3 H ( p c^{-2} + \rho ) \,</math>
which agrees with the continuity equation found above.
Let us also examine the ''i'' component which is
:<math>0 = T^{i \nu}{}_{;\nu} = T^{i \nu}{}_{,\nu} + T^{\sigma \nu} \Gamma^{i}{}_{\sigma \nu} + T^{i \sigma} \Gamma^{\nu}{}_{\sigma \nu} \,</math>
:<math>0 \approx - 4 k p a^{-2} x^i + 3 k p a^{-2} x^i + k p a^{-2} x^i \,</math>
:<math>0 \approx 0 \,.</math>
This identity means that conservation of linear momentum is automatic in FLRW. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 06:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

== Can the Friedmann equations be solved? ==
The Friedmann equations and the conserved energy equation are differential equations, can we solve them for a(t) function? How does the Friedmann equations describe the evolution of Universe in time? It describes the expansion of universe, right? but How about initial conditions (t=0)? Could you tell more about [[Cosmological principle]], and why from it we can derive [[FLRW metric]]? Thank you for your attention. [[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 12:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
:i read the article and found some useful information about a(t) in case k=0. how does a(t) look with k=1 or -1, and &Lambda; [[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 12:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
::Given an additional formula for the pressure, a numerical solution of the Friedmann equations is possible. You may specify freely ''k'' and the values of ''a'' and &rho; at an initial time. Then ''a'' can be updated with the first Friedmann equation; and &rho; with the continuity equation. Pressure ''p'' must be provided by the added equation.
::Exact solutions are possible in some special cases (see [[Friedmann equations#Useful solutions]]). If we assume ''k''=0 and
:::<math> p = w \rho c^2 \,</math>
::for some constant ''w''&nbsp;≠&nbsp;&minus;1, then
:::<math> \dot{\rho} = - 3 H \left(\rho+\frac{w \rho c^2}{c^2}\right) = - 3 H ( 1 + w ) \rho \,</math>
:::<math> \frac{ d \ln \rho }{ d t } = - 3 ( 1 + w ) \frac { d \ln a }{ d t } \,</math>
:::<math> \rho = \rho_0 \left( \frac{ a }{ a_0 } \right)^{- 3 ( 1 + w )} \,.</math>
::So the first Friedmann equation becomes
:::<math> \frac{\dot{a}^2}{a^2} = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho_0 \left( \frac{ a }{ a_0 } \right)^{- 3 ( 1 + w )} \,</math>
:::<math> \left(  a^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w ) - 1} \dot{a} \right)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G \rho_0}{3} \, a_0^{3 ( 1 + w )} \,</math>
:::<math> a^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w ) - 1} \dot{a} = \sqrt{ \frac{8 \pi G \rho_0}{3} } \,\, a_0^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} .</math>
::Integrating with respect to ''t'' gives
:::<math> a^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} = ( t - t_0 ) \, \tfrac32 ( 1 + w ) \sqrt{ \frac{8 \pi G \rho_0}{3} } \,\, a_0^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} + a_0^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} \,.</math>
:::<math> a^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} = \left[ ( t - t_0 ) \, ( 1 + w ) \sqrt{ 6 \pi G \rho_0 } + 1 \right] a_0^{\tfrac32 ( 1 + w )} \,.</math>
:::<math> a = a_0 \left[ 1 + ( t - t_0 ) \, ( 1 + w ) \sqrt{ 6 \pi G \rho_0 } \, \right]^{ \frac{2}{3( 1 + w )} } .</math>
:::<math> \rho = \rho_0 \left[ 1 + ( t - t_0 ) \, ( 1 + w ) \sqrt{ 6 \pi G \rho_0 } \, \right]^{-2} .</math>
::On the other hand, if ''w''&nbsp;=&nbsp;&minus;1 (i.e. ''p''&nbsp;=&nbsp;&minus;&rho;''c''<sup>2</sup>), then
:::<math> \rho = \rho_0 \,.</math>
:::<math> a = a_0 \exp{ \left[ ( t - t_0 ) \, \sqrt{ \frac{8 \pi G \rho_0}{3} } \, \right] } .</math>
::[[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 10:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

:::The exact solutions above assume that the universe is expanding. So that one takes the positive square-root. If the universe were contracting, then just change the sign of the square-root.
:::For an expanding universe, ''w''&nbsp;>&nbsp;&minus;1 implies that the universe begins with a [[big bang]] at
::::<math> t_{\text{Big Bang}} = t_0 - \left[ ( 1 + w ) \sqrt{ 6 \pi G \rho_0 } \, \right]^{-1} \,.</math>
:::If ''w''&nbsp;<&nbsp;&minus;1, then the universe ends with a [[big rip]] at
::::<math> t_{\text{Big Rip}} = t_0 + \left[ ( -1 - w ) \sqrt{ 6 \pi G \rho_0 } \, \right]^{-1} \,.</math>
:::If ''w''&nbsp;=&nbsp;&minus;1, then neither occurs. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 10:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
::What does t mean here? It is our local time, or of an infinite observer, or of the entire universe? [[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 12:50, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
::Because in both [[Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric|FLRW metric]] and this article I have not found the definition of t, and <math>\tau</math>. [[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 12:59, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
:::The physical meaning of the coordinates is implied by the metric equation. In some articles, such as [[Schwarzschild metric]], explanations are provided, but they are actually redundant because they follow from the metric equation. The proper time, τ, is the time measured by a clock moving along the same world line with the test particle. In FLRW, ''t'' is time measured by clocks which have been free-falling since the Big Bang and thus are at rest relative to the average motion of local matter (using the assumption of homogeneity and isotropy). This assumes they were synchronized at the Big Bang and thus remain synchronized locally. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 05:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
::Thank you for all![[User:Earthandmoon|Earthandmoon]] ([[User talk:Earthandmoon|talk]]) 15:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
The expansion of the universe will turn into a contraction if and when
:<math> \dot{a} = 0 \,;\quad \ddot{a} < 0 ,</math>
that is, if and when
:<math> \rho \, a^2 = \frac{3 k c^2}{8 \pi G} \,</math>
(which requires positive curvature of space) and
:<math> p > - \tfrac13 \rho c^2 \,.</math>
[[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 05:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


No Vandalism Intended 
246 GeV Energy Contained in Higgs Field
3.71295775e-28 kg * c^2 * (pi *376.730313462) =  246.508252 GeV 

(((246.508252 GeV) / (c^2)) / (3.71295775e-28 kg)) / pi = 376.730313

((6.6740800122e-11 * (newtons / (meters^2))) / (3.71295775e-28 * 2 * (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792458 m / s 

((2 * G * (1 kg)) / (c^2)) / 4 = 3.71295774e-28 meters 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedmann_equations#Density_parameter 

To date, the critical density is estimated to be approximately five atoms (of monatomic hydrogen) per cubic metre, 
whereas the average density of ordinary matter in the Universe is believed to be 0.2–0.25 atoms per cubic metre 

(3.71295775e-28 kilograms) / 1.67377e-27 = 0.221832017 Atomic Mass Units 

http://vixra.org/pdf/1310.0191vD.pdf  Time and the Black-hole White-hole Universe 

Riess and Perlmutter (notes 2) using Type 1a supernovae calculated 
the end of the universe tend ∼ 1.7e-121 ∼ 0.588e+121 units of Planck time; 
tend ∼ 0.588e+121 ∼ 0.2e+71yrs (19) 
The maximum temperature Tmax would be when tage = 1. 
What is of equal importance is the minimum possible temperature 
Tmin - that temperature 1 unit above absolute zero, for in 
the context of this expansion theory, this temperature would 
signify the limit of expansion (the black-hole could expand 
no further). For example, if we simply set the minimum temperature 
as the inverse of the maximum temperature; 
Tmin ∼ 1/Tmax ∼ 8π/TP ∼ 0.1773e−30 K (20) 
This would then give us a value ‘the end’ in units of Planck 
time (∼ 0.35e+73 yrs) which is close to Riess and Perlmutter; 
t-end = T^4 max ∼ 1.014e+123 (21) 
The mid way point (Tmid = 1K) becomes T^2 max ∼ 3.18e+61 ∼ 108.77 billion years. 


http://vixra.org/pdf/1310.0191vD.pdf 

(1 / ((((5.39116e-44 seconds) * 4.769959e+120 seconds)^0.5) / (4pi))) / G = 3.71295788e-28 kg/m^3

(4.769959e+120 seconds) / 0.588e+121 = 0.811217517 seconds  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:306:833C:5980:3CAC:1509:A79A:BD65|2602:306:833C:5980:3CAC:1509:A79A:BD65]] ([[User talk:2602:306:833C:5980:3CAC:1509:A79A:BD65#top|talk]]) 05:17, 21 May 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Free fall in FLRW ==

Particles which have a [[proper motion]] in an expanding universe should decelerate relative to their immediate surroundings. To examine this effect, I use the formula for acceleration at [[User:JRSpriggs/Force in general relativity#Acceleration]] applied to a free-falling particle
:<math> \ddot{x}^{\beta} = - \Gamma^{\beta}_{\alpha\mu} \dot{x}^{\alpha} \dot{x}^{\mu} + \Gamma^{0}_{\alpha\mu} \dot{x}^{\alpha} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\beta} \,.</math>
:<math> \ddot{x}^{i} = -2 \Gamma^{i}_{0 j} \dot{x}^{j} - \Gamma^{i}_{j m} \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{m} + \Gamma^{0}_{j m} \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{m} \dot{x}^{i} \,.</math>
:<math> \ddot{x}^{i} \approx -2 a^{-1} \dot{a} \delta_{i j} \dot{x}^{j} - k x^i \delta_{j m} \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{m} + c^{-2} a \dot{a} ( \delta_{j m} + k x^j x^m ) \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{m} \dot{x}^{i} \,.</math>
:<math> \ddot{x}^{i} \approx -2 H \dot{x}^{i} - k x^i \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{j} + c^{-2} a^2 H \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{j} \dot{x}^{i} + c^{-2} a^2 H k x^j \dot{x}^{j} x^m \dot{x}^{m} \dot{x}^{i} \,.</math>
[[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 11:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

== Friedmann qquations from R ==

We can use <math> R = 6/a^2 (\ddot{a} a + \dot{a}^2 + k) </math> to make Lagrange function <math> L = \sqrt{-g}(R-2\Lambda) </math> to find Friedmann equations using variational principle. But we find only one equation, not both.[[Special:Contributions/95.55.17.46|95.55.17.46]] ([[User talk:95.55.17.46|talk]]) 14:45, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

:See [[Einstein–Hilbert action]] for the derivation of the [[Einstein field equations]]. Your argument assumes that variations in the metric &delta;''g''<sup>&mu;&nu;</sup> which violate the symmetry of the [[Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric]] can be safely ignored. That is false. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 10:38, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

== Is Omega-k correctly defined? ==

I can't find any other source for Omega-k "spatial curvature density". It seems intuitive that the definition should be Omega-k = Omega - 1. Which is correct? Further, how is Omega-k related to k? [[User:Asgrrr|Asgrrr]] ([[User talk:Asgrrr|talk]]) 12:27, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

== [[Critical value]] range and it's [[Big Bang]] overrun ==
The Universe permanently maintains an allowed critical value[http://support.minitab.com/en-us/minitab/17/topic-library/basic-statistics-and-graphs/hypothesis-tests/basics/what-is-a-critical-value/] range of energy with five constituents, a. expansion, b. mean time flow, c.dark matter, d. dark energy, e. leptohadronic matter. All these constituents change proportionally but are extant inside an allowed [[critical value]] range. Big Bang launches when there isn't any other method to maintain that equilibrium. We know that the Big Bang event occurred in the past, at approximately 13.8 billion years ago, because it deleted most data of our [[predecessor universe]] (all data except very few under the noise level of the low energy range that cause some low energy anisotropy, but under the noise level, although even under the noise level officially aren't detectable we can still see some non random neither homogenous patterns at that range). The maximum [[anisotropy]] of the full spectrum occurred before the Big Bang, but due to [[cosmic inflation|inflation]] shifted all paleosympantic (concerning our predecessor universe) energy spectrum to the subnoise (under the threshold level of noise) of the ultra low energy part of our spectrum. A simplistic popular belief is that each universe exists among two [[critical value enent]]s, the paleosympantic (concerning our predecessor universe) Big Bang that produced our universe, and the universal death meta-Big Bang that will generate our offspring universe. Others focus only on the critical value part of the overall range of possible analogies among the universal constituents. Ω isn't functional at any level. The critical density occurs from a critical value allowed range. Thus the Ω parameter is permanently close to 1, but due to quantum noise never one. At extreme analogies among the energetic contributing universal constituents Ω cannot be close to 1 except if the universe explodes; and exactly that is what it does in order to maintain the Ω critical density inside the allowed critical value. The homogeneity of the thorough universal energy range isn't something other than the Big Bang goal. The Ω critical value range of the critical density itself forces homogeneity by expanding more or less universal regions during the Big Bang to achieve it, but the homogenous full spectrum of energy result, buries the anisotropic noise of the previous universe underneath the ultra low energy part of the spectrum at subthreshold levels, officially non detectable - but due to quantum mechanical probabilistic diffusion of information, will be discovered in the future (with some uncertainty because it is a subthreshold semi-anisotropy, it isn't a complete quantum decohesion or a pure anisotropy, because the Big Bang prevented that from happening, and that makes our job more difficult, but not impossible). 

I understand what you mean but your English isn't correct.  If the absolute value of the fullrange spectrum of energy is lower than the critical value, the universe is no longer possible to maintain Ω and and thus Big Bang occurs. -- {{IPuser|2.84.220.243}} 05:59, 26 July 2016‎ (UTC)

== Imaginary radius of curvature ==

I am not sure what the meaning of the following sentence is:

If k = −1, then (loosely speaking) one can say that i· a is the radius of curvature of the universe.

I would suggest to remove the sentence if there is no easy way to supplement it with a simple clarification. --[[User:Falktan|Falktan]] ([[User talk:Falktan|talk]]) 10:34, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

:See [[Gaussian curvature]]. If the two principal curvatures have the same sign so that the Gaussian curvature is positive, then the radius of curvature, ''a'', is the reciprocal of their [[geometric mean]]. What is meant here is that if the two principal curvatures have opposite signs (e.g. the Gaussian curvature is negative), then the reciprocal of the geometric mean of their absolute values is ''a''. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 14:06, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

==Confusing Text==
The text following the last equation in the Density parameter section is confusing and misleading to a reader with little background knowledge. 
The problem is that the sign of Ω_0,k is backwards. That is the sign is positive for a universe with negative (hyperbolic) curvature, and negative for a universe with positive (hyperspherical) curvature. In particular, the variable k was previously introduced with a description that k=+1 corresponds to positive curvature, and k=-1 corresponds to negative curvature.
I hope someone with the appropriate skills will edit this text to remove this confusion.
[[User:BHBloom|BHBloom]] ([[User talk:BHBloom|talk]]) 18:01, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

== Bulk Elastic Properties & Wave Speed & Friedmann_equations Density_parameter  ==

((((x GHz) * (3.71295774e-28 (m^2))) / Planck's constant) * (1 kg)) = 299792458^2 

((((160.390033967 GHz) * (3.71295774e-28 (m^2))) / Planck's constant) * (1 kg)) = c^2 

((((CMBR Hz) * (Friedmann Mass Density (m^2))) / Planck's constant) * (1 kg)) = c^2 

1/(160.390033967 GHz * 3.71295774e-28 kg   / Planck's constant  / c^2  )^0.5 = 1 m^2/s (square meter per second) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity#Kinematic_viscosity 

The kinematic viscosity "momentum diffusivity" is the ratio of the dynamic viscosity μ to the density of the fluid ρ. It is usually denoted by the Greek letter nu (ν) and has units  m^2/s   <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:306:833C:5980:EF:7508:2AC:611B|2602:306:833C:5980:EF:7508:2AC:611B]] ([[User talk:2602:306:833C:5980:EF:7508:2AC:611B#top|talk]]) 01:24, 20 September 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->




((0.224533978 atomic mass unit)) * (4pi/10^7 ) / (0.5^0.5 s/m^2) = (6.62607005e-34 Joule Second) 

(3.72847436e-28 kilograms) / (3.71295775e-28 kilograms) = 1.00417904   <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:306:833C:5980:F885:B7DF:2E16:93A6|2602:306:833C:5980:F885:B7DF:2E16:93A6]] ([[User talk:2602:306:833C:5980:F885:B7DF:2E16:93A6#top|talk]]) 14:58, 29 May 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

((6.6740800122e-11 * (newtons / (meters^2))) / (3.71295775e-28 * 2 * (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792458 m / s 

(6.6740800122e-11 /299792458^2 /2) = 3.712957749840332194829297612558e-28 kg

"physical mechanism" is the ( Inertial & Elastic Properties of the Medium) times the Mass Loading per cubic Meter 
  
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/permot3.html 
  
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/souspe2.html#c1 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/imgsou/soundwater.gif 

(((6.6740800122e-11)/2 (newtons / (meters^2))) / (3.712958e-28 (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792448 m / s 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedmann_equations#Density_parameter 

To date, the critical density is estimated to be approximately five atoms (of monatomic hydrogen) per cubic metre, whereas the average density of ordinary matter in the Universe is believed to be 0.2–0.25 atoms per cubic metre 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=((+(6.6740800122e-11%2F2)+Newtons+%2F+meters%5E2)%2F(3.712958e-28+kg%2Fmeter%5E3))%5E0.5+%3D 

(((6.6740800122e-11)/2 N/m^2 (newtons per square meter))/(3.712958e-28 kg/m^3 (kilograms per cubic meter)))^(1/2) = 299792448 

1 / ((6.6740800122e-11 / 2) * c) = 99.958075 s / m 

0.2235995768 AMU = 3.712958e-28 kg 

((6.6740800122e-11 * (newtons / (meters^2))) / (3.71295775e-28 * 2 * (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792458 m / s 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=((6.6740800122e-11+*+(newtons+%2F+(meters%5E2)))+%2F+(3.71295775e-28+*+2+*+(kg+%2F+(meter%5E3))))%5E0.5+%3D 

((6.6740800122e-11 Pascals) / (3.71295775e-28 * 2 * (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792458 m/s 

(6.6740800122e-11 / 3.71295775e-28 /2)^0.5 = 299792458 

(6.6740800122e-11 /299792458^2 /2) = 3.712957749840332194829297612558e-28 kg 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=((+6.6740800122e-11+Newtons+%2F+meters%5E2)%2F(2+*+3.712957749840332194829297612558e-28+kg%2Fmeter%5E3))%5E0.5+%3D

(3.712957749840332194829297612558e-28 kg * (c^2)) / (meter^3) = 3.33704001e-11 pascals = G/2  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:306:833C:5980:45B6:FE90:C7B3:8D3F|2602:306:833C:5980:45B6:FE90:C7B3:8D3F]] ([[User talk:2602:306:833C:5980:45B6:FE90:C7B3:8D3F#top|talk]]) 07:11, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

David Fuller

== Density of the universe ==
I suggest creating a separate article named [[Density of the universe]] because at this moment it redirects to this article ([[Friedmann equations]]), which is full of formulae. The people who want to read the article [[Density of the universe]] they actually just want to know how many atoms (or grams) of matter are in the average cubic meter of this Universe. — [[User:Ark25|'''<span style="background:#0070F0;color:#ffffff">&nbsp;Ark25&nbsp;</span>''']] ([[User_talk:Ark25|talk]]) 00:36, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
:I modified the redirect to go to the section "Density parameter" which contains that information. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 10:59, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

== Query about the Density parameter ==

I am confused about something regarding the Density parameter.

Lets say hypothetically it is the case that the value of ρ is actually greater than ρ<sub>c</sub> and that the universe is therefore finite. If the Universe is expanding, this surely means that ρ will be decreasing? What happens when ρ becomes equal to ρ<sub>c</sub>? Does the universe suddenly switch from being finite to being infinite? How can this make sense?

I would be very grateful if someone could untangle my confusion here.
[[Special:Contributions/81.149.43.187|81.149.43.187]] ([[User talk:81.149.43.187|talk]]) 17:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

:First, you are assuming that the critical density, ρ<sub>c</sub>, does not change as time passes. Since it depends on the Hubble constant ''H'' (which is not actually constant), it does change.
:Second, in the scenario you envision, the expansion would stop and become a contraction before the density became equal to the critical density. So the value of the density would begin to rise again preventing the equality from occurring. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 19:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi JRSpriggs
Thank you very much for your reply. It has clarified things somewhat.
[[Special:Contributions/81.149.43.187|81.149.43.187]] ([[User talk:81.149.43.187|talk]]) 14:19, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

== rescaled ==

<math>\Omega_c=-\frac{kc^2}{H_0^2 a_0^2}\;</math>
If k is meant to be K=1/R²=(c/H°)², then this turns to Ωc = -1/a² = -1. But what the heck is Ωc supposed to be? It is not the critical density, I guess it is supposed to be the curvature densitiy which is everywhere else called Ωk. On the other hand the value of Ωc ≈ -1 points to the critical value, but the minus sign is wrong then. So i guess it is a mixture and should be Ωc = 1+Ωk [[User:Ra-raisch|Ra-raisch]] ([[User talk:Ra-raisch|talk]]) 19:14, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
:As far as I understood now, there are two conventions: ''k'' using as curvature index (-1,0,1) or (usually ''K'') as the curvature (1/m²) and also ''a'' using as the scaling factor or the scaling parameter (m) which should be ''A'' in order to distinguish them. Thus here it should be ''Ωk'' and not ''Ωc'', leaving ''k'' and ''a'' as is, the ambiguity of which should be cleared and naming altered throughout the article. [[User:Ra-raisch|Ra-raisch]] ([[User talk:Ra-raisch|talk]]) 22:44, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

== Friedmanns original equation could not possibly have included the term "a(t)"! ==

... because a(t) wasn't invented until four years (1929) after his death (1925)!

A presentation of the original equation would be quite interesting.
[[User:Hilmer B|Hilmer B]] ([[User talk:Hilmer B|talk]]) 15:18, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

:Do you have any reliable source to back up that statement? [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 19:34, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

::Do you have any reliable source to falsify that statement? Did really Friedmann invent and use "a(t)" as it is interpreted today?  [[User:Hilmer B|Hilmer B]] ([[User talk:Hilmer B|talk]]) 19:46, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

:::To a mathematician using the radius of a hyper-sphere as a function of time when the hyper-sphere varies in size is obvious. If you need to see that Friedmann was aware of it, see his letter to Ehrenfest [http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/Friedmann/ here] where he says "a world, the space of which possesses a curvature radius varying with time;". [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 20:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I guess you're referring to II:1 in that letter: 
“From my second note in Russian that I have sent to you, you have seen that under
certain assumptions common to those of Einstein and De Sitter it is possible to
obtain the universe with the space of a (spatially!) constant curvature, the radius
of curvature of which is varying with time.”

Friedmann does here not suggest that he shared the belief that the scale of space itself varies with time, or ?! It may rather suggest that he, himself, considered spatial variations in the curvature. No trace of an expanding “a(t)” universe i this statement.

The quality and the beauty of Friedmann's equation is rather the way he relates the curvature of spacetime to (the local) density. He may very well have allowed the curvature to vary in space. What Einstein-deSitter suggested was a variation also in the time dimension. My guess is that they were worried because their interpretation of ∇2Φ = 4πGρ did only allow positive curvature in a static universe . (∇2Φ > 0 ...)

So back again to the original question: I guess that we can both agree upon that 1/R2 should have appeared in Friedmann's original, and I guess only, version of this equation. But was it also 1/a2(t)R2? And in that case how was that a(t) defined? Exactly: what did Friedmann's original equation look like? [[User:Hilmer B|Hilmer B]] ([[User talk:Hilmer B|talk]]) 19:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, the original papers of Friedmann are behind a wall: you have to pay to see them and then they are in Russian or German. This is a common problem, forcing us to rely on secondary sources. But the mere fact that those papers are not available to us is not evidence that Friedmann was unaware of what is now purported to be their contents. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 19:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Weird - Friedman died 95 years ago. Not even Disney has managed to get such a prolonged protection ...
So - the conclusion is that none of us knows. A case similar to the situation of Schrödinger's poor cat ...
Well, thanks for your contribution. [[User:Hilmer B|Hilmer B]] ([[User talk:Hilmer B|talk]]) 20:39, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

== Justification for eliminating the Cosmological Constant from the First Equation ==
You properly derive the first equation as:

<math>\frac{\dot a^2+k c^2}{a^2}=\frac{8\pi G \rho+\Lambda c^2}{3}</math>

But then you go on to state that:

These equations are sometimes simplified by replacing

<math>\rho \rightarrow\rho-\frac{\Lambda c^2}{8\pi G}</math>

to give:

<math>\left(\frac{\dot{a}}{a}\right)^2=\frac{8\pi G}{3}\rho-\frac{kc^2}{a^2}</math>

What is the justification for this substitution?  I might guess that you assume that the Cosmological Constant is so small with respect to the other terms that it is effectively zero, but you can't just drop a major variable without an explanation.

:It is a question of how the cosmological term is interpreted. Is it a complication in the law of gravity (as originally conceived)? Or is it a mysterious "[[dark energy]]" which should be included in the stress-energy tensor on the other side of the equation? Lately, people have been leaning to the latter interpretation. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 03:31, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

== The Friedman's equations and the problem of entropy  ==

The Friedman's equations don't have equations with entropy and this problem is weird [[Special:Contributions/164.127.230.76|164.127.230.76]] ([[User talk:164.127.230.76|talk]]) 12:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)