View source for Talk:George Floyd protests in Minnesota

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== Move request ==
This article should go back to something akin to its original name Twin Cities Riot 2020. The current name is unwieldy.[[User:TheMemeMonarch|TheMemeMonarch]] ([[User talk:TheMemeMonarch|talk]]) 04:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

'''Oppose''': They are the George Floyd Protests. Discussion was extensive and the decision was made on [[George Floyd Protests]]. [[User:Kire1975|Kire1975]] ([[User talk:Kire1975|talk]]) 05:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

'''Rebuttal''' I agree with the name, should it focus on the Twin city though? The rest of Minnesota is fairly uneventful.[[User:TheMemeMonarch|TheMemeMonarch]] ([[User talk:TheMemeMonarch|talk]]) 13:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

'''Oppose''': Minnesota is more recognized and better understood. [[User:9gfg06w2|9gfg06w2]] ([[User talk:9gfg06w2|talk]]) 20:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

'''Oppose''': I would suggest "George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–St. Paul" in place of a reference to the Twin Cities, similar to the section in the [[George Floyd Protests]] article. Less notable events that occurred in Duluth and elsewhere seem to be misfitting among the detailed descriptions of events in Minneapolis–St. Paul. [[User:VikingB|VikingB]] ([[User talk:VikingB|talk]]) 21:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

''' Oppose '''- Minnesota is more recognized and better understood. --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 00:37, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
* No. ---[[User:Another Believer|<span style="color:navy">Another Believer</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Another Believer|<span style="color:#C60">Talk</span>]])</sub> 19:54, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
'''Oppose''': RS report that the murder of George Floyd has sparked people to protest against years of systemic racism and police brutality; they are not rioting. [[User:BetsyRMadison|BetsyRMadison]] ([[User talk:BetsyRMadison|talk]]) 18:34, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

'''Comment''' my opinion is that Minnesota as a whole and the Twin Cities should receive separate articles. Minnesota should list the protests that happened by city, with Minneapolis/St. Paul linking to their own article. [[User:Songwaters|Songwaters]] ([[User talk:Songwaters|talk]]) 13:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

*'''Second''' that comment. "George Floyd protests in Minneapolis-St. Paul" and "George Floyd protests in Minnesota" would be a similar to how protests articles are for [[George Floyd protests in Illinois|Illinois]] and [[George Floyd protests in Chicago|Chicago]] and [[George Floyd protests in New York (state)|New York (state)]] and [[George Floyd protests in New York City|New York City]]. [[User:VikingB|VikingB]] ([[User talk:VikingB|talk]]) 16:36, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

== Moved ==

I moved the article to [[George Floyd protests in Minnesota]]; my rationale was: "To match the parent article [[George Floyd protests]] from which this one was split. Please also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:George_Floyd_protests&oldid=959904268#Requested_move_29_May_2020_(3) Talk:George_Floyd_protests#Requested_move_29_May_2020_(3)], where the "riots" name was discarded in favor of "protests". --[[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 04:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

== WikiProject Black Lives Matter ==

I've created '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Black Lives Matter|WikiProject Black Lives Matter]]''' for interested editors. Thanks, ---[[User:Another Believer|<span style="color:navy">Another Believer</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Another Believer|<span style="color:#C60">Talk</span>]])</sub> 21:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

== Riots ==

Should their be a subsection dedicated to the Riots in Minneapolis  or should we dedicate  a page about the Riots in Minneapolis? And I know that they mentioned it throughout the article, but I feel that their should be a page or at least a subsection of the page designated for the riots.  If you look at previous riots your see that they either get their own page, or have a subsection in the articles. See [[List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States]].
[[User:BigRed606|BigRed606]] ([[User talk:BigRed606|talk]]) 05:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Because I feel that the protest and the Riots should be separate. [[User:BigRed606|BigRed606]] ([[User talk:BigRed606|talk]]) 05:53, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
: '''Support use of the word Unrest''' You make a good point. If there isn't a separate page created for the riots, I think a better title for this page would be "George Floyd Unrest in Minnesota". This would encapsulate both riots and protests. Many sources also indicate that several of what may have started as protests quickly descended into riots, especially during the nighttime hours. [[User:MWise12|MWise12]] ([[User talk:MWise12|talk]]) 03:06, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
* '''No to both''' People are protesting against the murder of George Floyd by a white police officer, which has sparked national protests against years of systemic racism & police brutality. [[User:BetsyRMadison|BetsyRMadison]] ([[User talk:BetsyRMadison|talk]]) 18:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
:: If a protest turns into a riot there's nothing wrong with calling it a riot. Certainly not all of the protests turned violent, but to act like none did is observably false. [[User:MWise12|MWise12]] ([[User talk:MWise12|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

:: At a loss why anyone would claim that riots weren't taking place. The peaceful protests are patriotic acts of those who have been wronged or feel others have been wronged. The rioters, vandals, & arsonists, on the other hand, are criminals. Both are on public display & being widely reported on. Why wouldn't they both be worthy of mention? It has been reported that the Floyd family has even come out against the violence.<ref>{{Cite web|last=Schaper|first=David |title=George Floyd's Brother Pleads For Calm In Minneapolis|url=https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867256388/george-floyds-brother-pleads-for-calm-in-minneapolis|website=npr|language=en}}</ref> [[User:Codron|Codron]] ([[User talk:Codron|talk]]) 05:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
:::To [[User:Codron|Codron]] [[User:MWise12|MWise12]] - The two questions being asked is: 1) should be a subsection for "Riots In Minneapolis" and 2) should there be a WP article on it. I answered those 2 questions. 
:::RS report that the overwhelming majority of protesters are/were peacefully protesting.  I do not feel WP editors should eclipse from the protests against years of police brutality and systematic institutional racism with "riots" that we do <u>not</u> even know who started. For example, WP editors do not eclipse from the colonist's protests against the years of oppression by King George by focusing on the colonist's violent protests & riots that led to war.
:::* There were protests and violent riots over the [[Stamp Act of 1765]]. Arsonists, rioters, and vandals burned down homes and shops.  Violent rioters carried effigies of public officials then cut off the head of the effigy causing public officials to fear for their lives to such a degree they quit their jobs. In some cases, rioters tarred and feathered "loyalists" and employees of the Custom service. Yet, WP editors do not call the colonial arsonists, rioters, and vandals: "criminals" even though that is what they were, criminals committing violent crimes.  And WP does not have a separate page titled "Stamp Act Riots." 
:::* The [[Boston Tea Party]] was a violent riot where rioters & vandals illegally destroyed over $1 Million dollars (in today's money) worth of private property. Yet, WP does not have a subsection or separate WP article called: "Boston Tea Party Riots."  
:::While the overwhelming majority of colonists protested peacefully, and the ''militant'' group [[Sons of Liberty]] who led most of the protests did denounce the violence, this country, America, was literally founded off of violent riots and protests so I have no problem with describing riots in the article, and, I see no reason to eclipse the protests by changing the focus to riots. Plus, WP editors do not know ''who'' started the riots.  For example, did protesters start the MPD 3rd Precinct fire or did some guy, Brandon Wolfe, who wanted to steal police gear?
::I hope I have sufficiently answered both of your concerns. [[User:BetsyRMadison|BetsyRMadison]] ([[User talk:BetsyRMadison|talk]]) 13:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' That would require developing criteria by consensus of what is a "protest" and what is a "riot" and rigidly maintaining the content of each section in the article. The series is named [[George Floyd protests]]. More detailed articles by locale are named "George Floyd protests in [fill in the blank]." If anything, this article under covers developments day by day in the marches and rallies, which partially explain why certain areas ended up with property destruction as they were adjacent to police precincts that were a focal point of gatherings at certain inflection points. This article also under covers nearly continuous gatherings of people at East 38th Street and Chicago, among other gatherings.[[User:VikingB|VikingB]] ([[User talk:VikingB|talk]]) 19:37, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

==Accuracy of Star Tribune damage reports is very questionable to me==
I currently live in Richfield and am questioning why the damage of "570 businesses" has not spread to my neighborhood near the Hub shopping center yet.[[User:Mancalledsting|Mancalledsting]] ([[User talk:Mancalledsting|talk]]) 20:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

What is your point? Have you walked down Lake Street? [[User:VikingB|VikingB]] ([[User talk:VikingB|talk]]) 23:30, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

No original research per [[WP:NOR]] [[User:Anon0098|Anon0098]] ([[User talk:Anon0098|talk]]) 02:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

==Please explain why the supposedly looted Walgreens doesn't look looted==

Just noticed even that "looted" Walgreens pictured looks pretty unscathed, with no broken glass, including the door glass, and only graffiti which I didn't notice until closer observation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Minnesota#/media/File:Looted_Walgreens_-_Protest_and_riot_aftermath_on_west_Lake_Street_(49945567788).jpg. Even one portion of the right door glass is spray-painted and not even one open window, which also doesn't have broken glass, doesn't look like it suffered the trauma that one would suspect from a large break-in.[[User:Mancalledsting|Mancalledsting]] ([[User talk:Mancalledsting|talk]]) 22:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

This Walgreens was looted. That picture is from the first morning after. The door was forced open. You can see some things that look out of place in the entrance and some packaging scattered about. It was not properly secured and it was further looted before being burned to the ground in subsequent days. The photo is not the most dramatic example, but that Walgreens was looted, took damage, then burned down.  [[User:VikingB|VikingB]] ([[User talk:VikingB|talk]]) 23:15, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Looting is different from damaging, arson, etc. There are reports of theft from inside. Again, no original research please [[User:Anon0098|Anon0098]] ([[User talk:Anon0098|talk]]) 02:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

== Move to [[George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–St. Paul]] ==

I have gone ahead and split the Minneapolis–St. Paul protests into [[George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–St. Paul|their own article]], and rewrote this article to focus on cities outside the area. [[User:Songwaters|Songwaters]] ([[User talk:Songwaters|talk]]) 18:25, 11 June 2020 (UTC)