View source for Talk:Ibn Abbas

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{{oldafdfull|date=2006 June 22|result='''keep'''|page=Abd-Allah ibn Abbas}}
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==untitled==
This article is not in good shape. There are broken links in the bibliography - which, in my opinion, never should have used online links in the first place.

If we read al-Tabari we don't see Abdullah ibn Abbas very often.  Since he was the ancestor of the Caliphs I imagine al-Tabari would not have negelected him. Historically it seems as though he was only active during the first fitna. He was Ali's general and later Ali's governor of Basra.  Other than this he seems to have played no part in politics - but this alone should endear him to Shi'ites.

In the western tradition he appears as a respected narrator of a modest number of hadiths. He seems to have become the font for hadiths in Bssra. Said ibn al-Jubayr (executed just after the second fitna) is the most often quoted (in al_Bukhari) narrator from Ibn Abbas and his connection with Ibn Abbas seems to have been during Ibn Abbas's time in Basra. 

But Ibn Abbas' main claim to fame is as an expert on tafsir. More than on modern critic has decided that the idea of Ibn Abbas doing tafsir was a third century idea. But no one has offered a suggestion as to why Ibn Abbas should have been imagined to be involved in tafsir. 

It seems to me that an article on Ibn Abbas should be centered on his position in the tafsir tradition and the quaint pious anecdotes should be dropped [[User:DKleinecke|DKleinecke]] ([[User talk:DKleinecke|talk]]) 18:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

==Denomination==
Changed Denomination from "Sunni" to "Disputed."
It is an unnecessary field for personalities so early in Islamic History.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/105.236.67.14|105.236.67.14]] ([[User talk:105.236.67.14|talk]]) 10:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Why is it even there? As you said, in early early Islam there weren't really dominations or sects. [[User:CirclePulse|CirclePulse]] ([[User talk:CirclePulse|talk]]) 00:22, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

==Abd-Allah vs Abdullah==
The traditional and common way of spelling of Abdullah is '''Abdullah'''. But I notice that in many wikipedia articles, it is spelled as Abd-Allah, which looks awkward. Those who are writing this must have some logic behind this. Will you please tell here what prompted you to write these names as '''Abd-Allah'''? --[[User:AsceticRose|<span style="color:green;"><b>AsceticRose</b></span>]] [[User talk: AsceticRose |<span style="color:purple;"><sup><b>VOICE BOX</b></sup></span>]] 04:56, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The correct and proper arabic is Abdullah not Abd Allah. Someone please change the article's title of Abdullah ibn Abbas. [[User:Zabranos|Zabranos]] ([[User talk:Zabranos|talk]]) 11:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

== [[Abd Allah ibn Abbas]] , [['Abd Allah ibn al'-Abbas]]  ==

Is it the same person?[[User:Xx236|Xx236]] ([[User talk:Xx236|talk]]) 07:36, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

== Requested move 27 February 2020 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: '''Consensus to move''' to just [[Ibn Abbas]] without modifier <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> {{#if:|<small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small>|{{#if:|<small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small>}}}} [[User:BegbertBiggs|''BegbertBiggs'']] ([[User talk:BegbertBiggs|talk]]) 17:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
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[[:Ibn `Abbas]] → {{no redirect|Ibn Abbas}} – The current title, [[Ibn `Abbas]], uses an ASCII backtick to simulate [[Modifier letter left half ring|Unicode MODIFIER LETTER LEFT HALF RING]]. We might consider moving this page to [[Ibn ʿAbbas]], but given that the current article text uses simply "Ibn Abbas" throughout, I think it would make the most sense to move the page to simply [[Ibn Abbas]] with no Unicode or diacriticals involved. Mainly, let's do ''something'' to eliminate the ugly ASCII backtick in the title. [[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] ([[User talk:Quuxplusone|talk]]) 17:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)<small>—'''''Relisted.'''''&nbsp;– [[User:Ammarpad|Ammarpad]] ([[User talk:Ammarpad|talk]]) 09:06, 7 March 2020 (UTC)</small>
*Semitic language scholars feel a need to show where the [[ayin]] sound is, and for it they use what is available in their typewriters or printer's typecases. [[User:Anthony Appleyard|Anthony Appleyard]] ([[User talk:Anthony Appleyard|talk]]) 22:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' either move proposed. The current title is not acceptable because we are not a typewriter. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 18:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Ibn Abbas, he's well-known enough to be seen as just that form often enough.  [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 14:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' the move to [[Ibn Abbas]]. (I can't see that any other has been proposed.) Were the ayin to be frequently used in English-language sources, there'd be a stronger case for having it as the article title, but if they're not, not.
:I agree the backtick is a carbuncle, and as mentioned in [[QWERTY#United_Kingdom_(Extended)_Layout]], some English-language layouts use the back tick (grave accent) key as a compose key. My compact non-English keyboard doesn't have it at all. So it makes it a little harder to search or link. [[Special:Contributions/85.238.91.68|85.238.91.68]] ([[User talk:85.238.91.68|talk]]) 05:04, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''<!-- Template:RM bottom --></div>

== Requested move 7 March 2024 ==
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''procedural close''': the nominator is a blocked sockpuppet, with no other editors supporting.  [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 04:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
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[[:Ibn Abbas]] → {{no redirect|Abd Allah ibn al-Abbas}} – The current title, Ibn Abbas, may also refer to other sons of [[al-Abbas ibn Abd al-Muttalib]] such as [[Fadl ibn Abbas]], [[Qutham ibn Abbas]], [[Ubayd Allah ibn Abbas]] etc. not just Abd Allah. [[User:Aqsian313|Aqsian313]] ([[User talk:Aqsian313|talk]]) 21:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC) <small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User:Natg 19|Natg 19]] ([[User talk:Natg 19|talk]]) 01:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)</small>

* '''Oppose'''.  This Ibn Abbas is the most famous one, though, and probably what is being referred to by just this name.  This isn't unusual with Arabic names where strictly speaking, there's a lot of people who share a portion of the fullest version of the name, so we just follow the sources for the short form used.  See also [[Ibn Saud]] (not Abdulaziz bin Abdul Rahman Al Saud).  [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 17:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
**Side note: Even if the article is moved, I'm skeptical of the "al-" in "al-Abbas".  Most sources don't seem to include an "al-" there and the article was only recently edited to include that as part of a "full name" (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ibn_Abbas&oldid=1214113996 version as of March]).  So even if we did move, I'd want to see strong sourcing that "al-" should be included rather than Abd Allah ibn Abbas.  (Actually we should have strong sourcing that the al- even should be in the new full name now.)  [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 20:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
***I haven't yet done a proper research but, just casually searching, saw that reliable sources such as the  [https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/entries/encyclopaedia-of-islam-2/abd-allah-b-al-abbas-SIM_0035 ''Encyclopaedia of Islam'' uses ʿAbd Allāh b. al-ʿAbbās], so did [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abd-Allah-ibn-al-Abbas Britannica]. Can you list any reliable sources that do not use "al-" when mentioning Ibn Abbas? [[User:Aqsian313|Aqsian313]] ([[User talk:Aqsian313|talk]]) 23:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
**** Casually searching shows the vast majority of Google hits using "ibn Abbas" even when searching of the form "ibn al-abbas -wikipedia".  That doesn't mean al-Abbas is wrong for the long form, just means it's not the common short form.  (And Britannica is not a super reliable source these days, unfortunately, but that does increase the liklihood it's at least a valid name.)  Notably, this included Ayoub's "Quran and its Interpreters" ([https://books.google.com/books?id=hVpmIJAFVo0C&pg=PA28&dq=%22Ibn+Abbas%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCl5uhhLmFAxUnL1kFHbTzAWEQ6AF6BAgLEAI#v=onepage&q=%22Ibn%20Abbas%22&f=false link]), which I remember being assigned to me back in college (so not a bad source).  For a more recent source, the 2008 book "The First Muslims: History and Memory" simply calls him ibn Abbas: [https://books.google.com/books?id=-1TuAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=abbas link].  I picked this source by checking the Bibliography at the The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World's article on "Companions of the Prophet", if that helps burnish that this isn't a random book, but a solid scholarly source.  
**** Also, since you're citing Britannica, if we do trust them for the al- part, while they use "al-Abbas" in the first sentence, everywhere else in their article they use "Ibn ʿAbbas".  So I'd suggest that your changes to the body of the Wikipedia article to use "al-Abbas" everywhere aren't in sync with that source's suggestion of the short name. [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 02:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Create a dab page. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 20:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
* Please '''note''' that the OP Aqsian313 is a block-evading sockpuppet of [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SheryOfficial|SheryOfficial]]. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">☿&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Apaugasma</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|☉]])</span> 17:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
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