View source for Talk:Kingsley Amis

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== Second Markham rumors ==

I find it odd that someone felt the need to [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kingsley_Amis&diff=25119301 insert] the rumored first line of a rumored second novel, "BOND HAD NEVER LIKED ACAPULCO." It was also [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=James_Bond&diff=prev&oldid=25118582 done to the James Bond article]. Anyone have any primary sources on this rumor? Here's [http://debrief.commanderbond.net/index.php?showtopic=11136 a message board discussion] I found on it. --[[User:RockOfVictory|J. J.]] 23:30, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

:On October 24th 1970, several newspapers in the United States ran a very short Associated Press story. This one appeared in the Ironwood Michigan Daily Globe
:''James Bond to Die''
:''(London (AP) - James Bond is about to die for what may or may not be positively for keeps. Kingsley Amis, who succeeded the late Ian Fleming as author of the agent 007 series said today that in the next book his hero will be blasted by a bazooka-wielding bartender on a train in Mexico.''
:Amis also told the New York Times in 1968 that his second Bond novel would be set in Mexico and feature an assassination on a train: ''I can just see the beginning: Bond had never cared for Acapulco. That's the way to start.'' The plot would centre around tensions between British Honduras and Guatemala over rival claims to Mexico. There is more information [http://commanderbond.net/index.php?action=Story&SID=2974 in 'OO7' Magazine #47] [[User:Fanthrillers|Fanthrillers]] ([[User talk:Fanthrillers|talk]]) 21:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::[[User:Fanthrilleírs|@Fanthrilleírs]]   Colonel Sun by Amis under the  name Robert. Markham was far superior to anything Fleming ever wrote. I can't think why it was never made into a film. [[User:Legnakelly|Legnakelly]] ([[User talk:Legnakelly|talk]]) 01:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

== Stalinism/Communism edit and rephrase ==

I recently changed 'vocal Stalinist' to 'vocal Communist', since although Amis was a Communist while Stalin was in power, he never explicitly supported Stalin.

However, this has resulted in a certain inelegance of expression - so I would like to suggest the following amendment -

"As a young man, Kingsley Amis was a vocal member of the Communist Party."

If no one has any objections, I will do this later.
--[[User:Tomwootton|Tomwootton]] 13:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

:I take issue with longlivefolkmusic. Although "reactionary" is sometimes used as a term of abuse by leftists it is a legitimate and well-defined word. It would appear to be a better description of Amis' later views than mere "conservative" which could mean a lot of different things. [[User:Xxanthippe|Xxanthippe]]

:Eh, no.  "Member of the Community Party" is a near-nonsense phrase from the McCarthyism period of American history.  A political party is a discrete legal entity.  One could easily have been a lifelong supporter of communism without ever having been a member of a Communist Party within any particular political jurisdiction. In fact, a great many were not, precisely because of what happened under McCarthyism.  Absent any [[WP:RS|reliably sourced]] information that Amis was actually an official member of any such local, regional or national political party, the text would not be presumptively accurate.  &mdash; <span style="font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]</span> &#91;[[User_talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]&#93; &#91;[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|contrib]]&#93;</span> <span style="color: #990000; font-weight: bold;">ツ</span> 10:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

::I take your point SMcCandlish, but although I haven't got a copy of the biography next to me as I speak, I'm certain he was actually a member of the Communist Party at University. I will check the source and advise.([[User:Tomwootton|Tomwootton]] ([[User talk:Tomwootton|talk]]) 08:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC))

== K. Amis' alcoholism ==

Kingsley Amis was a thoroughgoing alcoholic, and I believe this fact should be incorporated in his Wiki biography. Here is a brief rundown on that side of his life:

http://drunkard.com/issues/08_05/0805_kingsley.htm

:Absolutely not. Kingsley Amis certainly drank an awful lot, certainly by modern standards, and there is no doubt that his love of drink affected his relationship with Elizabeth Jane Howard, but I don't think you would want to go much further than that.

:Labeling someone as an alcoholic is dangerous to do without actual medical evidence that they sought help or were medically diagnosed as such. There is no such evidence. He himself pointed out the ''absolute necessity'' for staying sober when writing (to be found in his selected essays and reviews, especially the ones on Dylan Thomas).

:Such arbitrary labeling of people as alcoholics does a diservice to both those who enjoy their drink, even in large quantities, and those who have a real problem. Amis himself said, of Swinburne I think, that he made the very difficult transition from alcoholic to very heavy drinker. Amis was a person who knew all about that distinction.

:Tom

Agreed. His son Martin says in "Experience" that Kingsley was a fully functional heavy drinker. Drink did not seem to affect Kingsley's moods apart from making him more assertive in conversation. This is my first post on a discussion page...I hope I've done it correctly!

[[User:Conorechlin|Conorechlin]] ([[User talk:Conorechlin|talk]]) 20:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

==Contradiction==
This passage is self-contradictory:
<blockquote>
In 1968 the owners of the James Bond property, Glidrose Publications, attempted to continue the series by hiring different novelists, all writing under the pseudonym "Robert Markham". Kingsley Amis was the first to write a Robert Markham novel, Colonel Sun, but no further books were published under that name.
</blockquote>
Either Amis was the first and last (and therefore only) "Robert Markham", as the article states, or there were various different novelists all writing under this name for Glidrose, as the article ''also'' states.  "Colonel Sun" also needs to be rendered as "''Colonel Sun''", as a book title. &mdash; <span style="font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]</span> &#91;[[User_talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]&#93; &#91;[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|contrib]]&#93;</span> <span style="color: #990000; font-weight: bold;">ツ</span> 10:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It isn't self-contradictory.  Glidrose hired different novelists to write manuscripts under the pseudonym "Robert Markham" and chose to publish only one of them.  Hiring is not the same thing as publishing. [[User:Evilfabio|Evilfabio]] 01:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree that the passage is not completely satisfactory as it stands. At the very least we need a reference to document the Glidrose project re. the multiple Robert Markhams. If you read this, Evilfabio, do you have a reference for this? There is no mention of multiple Robert Markhams in the Amis letters, nor in the Eric Jacobs biography. In the meantime I have taken the liberty of changing the wording to the 'James Bond franchise', from the strange sounding 'James Bond property', a locution I have never come across before. 'Glidrose Publications' is referred to in several places in the KA letters as Glidrose Productions, a company owned by Ian Fleming to which he assigned the copyright of all the James Bond novels. [[User:Welham66|Welham66]] ([[User talk:Welham66|talk]]) 08:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

: I've never believed the multiple "Robert Markham" theory. My own research shows that it was only to have been Amis's own pseudonym. I believe the fanbase is, again, responsible for another baseless rumour. Glidrose Productions was the company's original name. Eventually it became Glidrose Publications in, I believe, the early 1970's. It is now called "Ian Fleming Publications" (IFP, for short). [[User:Fanthrillers|Fanthrillers]] ([[User talk:Fanthrillers|talk]]) 20:51, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

==My name's Bond, James Bond==

Please can we reduce the lengthy and uninteresting references to James Bond.  It is quite absurd to have so much detail about James Bond in circumstances where this article says so little about Amis's principal works.  If you want to witter on about Bond why not write about it under Ian Fleming / Sean Connery / Roger Moore / James Bond etc?  [[User:Dr Spam (MD)|Dr Spam (MD)]] 07:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and I have, in the course of rewriting the whole literary work section, relegated the Bond stuff to “trivia,” which, for anyone who admires Kingsley Amis for his actual literary achievements, which have little to do with his having tossed off a subpar Bond novel, is where it belongs.  <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|04:20, August 21, 2007 (UTC)}}}</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I don't regard the Bond stuff as any great loss. Are you intending to provide any references for the rewritten section? --[[User:Stephen Burnett|Stephen Burnett]] 18:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:Much of my information comes from Fussell’s ‘’The Anti-Egotist’’, which I unfortunately don’t have in front of me for more specific citation. For the rest I’ve tried to make claims, whether factual or “critical”, that should hold up on appeal to the works themselves. Amendations, however, are welcome (I saw from the [[Philip Larkin|Larkin]] article that I already made a mistake about Larkin’s location when ‘’Lucky Jim’’ was being written). 

:I felt the important thing was to get together a solid framework for this section which flows tolerably well but can be expanded as necessary – chronological sequence seemed to be the easiest way to approach this. In any case it should hopefully keep out the random, trivial additions about “hangover cures” and James Bond.  <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|65.87.166.159}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|03:25, August 23, 2007 (UTC)}}}</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::My reason for asking was that some of my own references to Bradford regarding the autobiographical nature of his work have disappeared. I'm always prepared to have my contributions improved - and that is after all the way Wiki develops - but having authoritative references is particularly important in matters of literary analysis and discussion, since these are most open to challenge on a basis of [[WP:NOR|original research]] or [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]]. Biographical details are in general much less open to doubt or interpretation. 

::It's especially important to reference claims that most of Amis's characters were projections of himself and his own concerns and experiences, given his own predilection for throwing sand in people's faces by deriding such suggestions - for example his scorn about inferences on his drinking habits being drawn from his novels. When I get the time I will try to work some of the Bradford material back into the article. --[[User:Stephen Burnett|Stephen Burnett]] 19:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Having the Bond section in Trivia is unacceptable and I have moved it into the main article. First, it is extremely notable that Amis was involved in not one, not 2 but 3 officially sanctioned projects -- and possibly a fourth depending on where you stand regarding the Man with the Golden Gun editing controversy. Second, we are supposed to eliminate trivia sections per [[WP:TRIVIA]]. I know Colonel Sun might not appeal to the literi the way Lord Jim does, but it's part of his canon, like it or not, along with The Book of Bond. The current length is perfectly fine. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 00:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:I’m not going to move the Bond again. I just want to point out that you have given Amis’s ''best-known'' novel the title of [[Lord Jim|one of Joseph Conrad’s books]]. This to me proves an utter lack of regard for Amis’s life and literary work in the round. The Bond fanatics have their little field of obsession, and care about KA only insofar as he wandered across it. The argument you have made, about details and controversies I have never heard of in all the critical and biographical work I’ve seen on KA, belongs on a page about James Bond, not Kingsley Amis. In the context of James Bond, KA may be important, and your argument tends to prove this conclusion. In the context of Kingsley Amis, however, James Bond is simply not this important. If KA’s pseudonymous Bond books can somehow be placed in the context of his development as a writer, as you will see I have tried to do with some of his other genre work (please don't try to tag KA fans as - I assume, given the typo - "literati," as, indeed, a basic familiarity with the author's canon would show you the pat irony of doing so), then they might merit a whole paragraph. For instance, KA's ventures in science fiction reflect some of his ideas about religion and society. If the Bond books (which I have not read) could be related to his political beliefs (e.g., his views on the Cold War, or his shift rightward), I would begin to consider this notable, again, ''in the context of Kingsley Amis's life and work''. [[User:65.87.166.159|65.87.166.159]] 04:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Kingsleyamis.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Kingsleyamis.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

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If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 --> [[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 02:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Is the university in ''[[Lucky Jim]]'' a "redbrick" university? ==

The [[University of Leicester]], which Kingsley's fictional one is said to be based on, is not one of the [[redbrick]] universities, for what it's worth. [[User:Llajwa|Llajwa]] 19:22, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The inspiration was only from the Leicester university senior common room, where Amis was left alone for half an hour or so while visiting Larkin. According to Jacobs, observing the dons there gave Amis the idea of a campus novel. The fictional campus in ''Lucky Jim'' is an imaginative composite. It's not exclusively based on Leicester. [[User:Welham66|Welham66]] ([[User talk:Welham66|talk]]) 08:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

*As Amis was a lecturer at [[University College Swansea]] from '''1949-1961''', surely that experience would have had more of an influence on ''Lucky Jim'' than the brief experience in Leicester? [[User:Rwood128|Rwood128]] ([[User talk:Rwood128|talk]]) 20:01, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

==Biography ''and'' personal life==
Is there some rationale that I'm missing for having one "Biography" plus one "Personal life" section? If nobody objects, I'm going to merge them. The article is very nice, but could stand some fattening-up, which I will do as I (hopefully) find the time to read the memoir and biographies that I just got out of the library.  [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC).

==Assessment of later novels==

The paragraph beginning
"Beginning in the late 1970s Amis’s work shows something of a decline from its earlier pitch"
is far fron NPOV and is quite polemical.
[[User:RJChapman|RJChapman]] ([[User talk:RJChapman|talk]]) 10:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Kingsleyamis.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Kingsleyamis.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:Kingsleyamis.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->
[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 19:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Contradiction - lecturer in English at the University of Wales Swansea in 1948 or 1949? ==

Hello,
the article states that Amis became a lecturer in English at the University of Wales Swansea in '''1948'''. Whereas the article by guardian.co.uk ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/1995/oct/23/fiction.kingsleyamis )demonstrates that he became a lecturer in '''1949'''.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/141.44.14.4|141.44.14.4]] ([[User talk:141.44.14.4|talk]]) 18:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Yes, you're quite right. 1949 is the correct date. It's cited in two biographies I have to hand. I'll edit in the change right now. 
[[User:Welham66|Welham66]] ([[User talk:Welham66|talk]]) 11:47, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Copyright problem ==
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|left|50x50px]] This article has been reverted by a bot to {{oldid|page=Kingsley Amis|oldid=390589150|label=this version}} as part of [[WP:CCI|a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement]]. (See [[WP:Contributor copyright investigations/Pohick2|the investigation subpage]]) This has been done to remove [[User:Accotink2]]'s contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, ''unless'' it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyrighted]] text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of ''information'', but not as a source of ''sentences'' or ''phrases''. Accordingly, the material ''may'' be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original ''or'' [[Wikipedia:Plagiarism|plagiarize]] from that source. Please see our [[Wikipedia:NFC#Text|guideline on non-free text]] for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. [[User:VWBot|VWBot]] ([[User talk:VWBot|talk]]) 06:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
: [[User:Accotink2]] only made [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kingsley_Amis&action=historysubmit&diff=393242003&oldid=390589150 one change] to this article, altering an external link. I have reverted the bot's reversion. [[User:William Avery|William Avery]] ([[User talk:William Avery|talk]]) 13:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Biographer quote opener ==

Obviously there are other problems with this article already, but I wonder if the opening quotation from Amis' biographer that he was the finest English comic novelist of the second half of the century can really be considered objective enough to be included in the opening paragraph of this article.  I mean, presumably any biographer thinks his/her subject is pretty great, but that doesn't prove too much in itself.  Might be rewritten more generally such as to say he "has been called the greatest..." by for example blah blah.  [[Special:Contributions/68.175.69.32|68.175.69.32]] ([[User talk:68.175.69.32|talk]]) 05:57, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

== POV ==

The bit here: "Amis had a somewhat complex relationship with anti-Semitism, which he sometimes expressed but also disliked and opposed.[28] He occasionally wallowed in speculations on the historically received, and commonly accepted, bigoted stereotypes attributed (and supposedly intrinsic) to Jewish character. He echoed this type of unexamined prejudice, replete with deliberate offensiveness, bile, and occasional deranged lunacy,[29] and with a provocative vitality all his own."

- It's a point of view and an overt one at that. If it's from a book it should be in quotes, if it isn't, it should either be rewritten or deleted. " deliberate offensiveness, bile, and occasional deranged lunacy" for example--that's damning--either quote it or get rid of it, thoughts? [[User:Thedaveformula|Thedaveformula]] ([[User talk:Thedaveformula|talk]]) 10:48, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

== Query: Naming Consistency? ==

In the section "Life and career", Amis's first wife, Hilary Bardwell, and his second wife, Elizabeth Jane Howard, are named.  The second is referred to by her family name, Howard.  The first wife is consistently referred to (there and elsewhere) by her give name, Hilary--perhaps a bit familiarly.

Does it or should it imply a subtle distinction?  If so, what?  Is there some Wikipedia policy (concerning first wives, or households of death) to support this discrepency? 

[[User:Xojo|<span style="color:black;">'''(Christopher Karl Johansen)&mdash;</span><span style="color:blue;">Xojo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Xojo|''<span style="color:teal;"><small> (talk) </small></span>'']] 20:32, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== External links modified ==

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== Political Views ==

"This sections starts "Briefly joined the Communist Party... left in 1956" - that's 15 years. I should live to treat 15 years as "brief".  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Robin J Thomson|Robin J Thomson]] ([[User talk:Robin J Thomson#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Robin J Thomson|contribs]]) 22:53, 20 January 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> 
This whole section is very poor - lots about his drinking and adultery under "political views" ----

You just leave other editors to do the work do you? Tell 'em what to do? Brilliant. [[User:Bmcln1|Bmcln1]] ([[User talk:Bmcln1|talk]]) 00:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

:You're welcome. [[User:Robin J Thomson|Robin J Thomson]] ([[User talk:Robin J Thomson|talk]]) 01:58, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

== "Sir Kingsley Amis CBE" ==

The article says that he was knighted in 1990.  When did he receive the CBE? [[Special:Contributions/67.231.66.125|67.231.66.125]] ([[User talk:67.231.66.125|talk]]) 16:48, 11 February 2021 (UTC)