View source for Talk:Light gun

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== List of games ==

we need to make a list page of  all the light gun games. theres a light gun games category as well.. the list is getting much too long, also is it possible for a light gun to work with a pc monitor? --[[User:Larsinio|larsinio]] 03:14, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

:it is possible to get a light-gun to work with a PC monitor (CRT only) - not sure if anyone has developed one. [[User:Y control|Y control]] 16:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

==Non CRT detection==
So I've been to the arcade and played TimeCrisis/House of the Dead which uses a rear-projection screen. Does this mean that where I thought it was using LCD rear-projection I am mistaken; or is there another method for shooting games? Please help I'm stumped. [[User:Y control|Y control]] 16:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
:I beleive LCD displays now exist that can refresh quickly enough for light guns to work. In arcades, if the gun is fixed to a platform, it's most likely positional. Last time I saw House of the Dead though, it used freely-movable light guns. What makes you think it was using a LCD rear-projector rather than a CRT one? [[User:Boffy b|boffy_b]] 17:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

===This should be more clearly stated in the article===
...But if I try to add anything, it would just receive those citation needed tags and revertion.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/80.221.132.209|80.221.132.209]] ([[User talk:80.221.132.209|talk]]) 20:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

HotD and HotD2 used CRT monitors.  But HotD2/3/4 used gun sensors around the monitor (12 total).  This technology is not like conventional light gun/pen systems.

Also, the screen is not projection, it is mirrored.  [[User:JamesRTwine|JamesRTwine]] ([[User talk:JamesRTwine|talk]]) 03:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

:partially wrong. 10 sensors. Also there are projection versions of hotd2,3 probably 4. [[Special:Contributions/67.219.76.39|67.219.76.39]] ([[User talk:67.219.76.39|talk]]) 00:16, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

==Time Crisis 3 doesnt use any of the listed methods==

The light gun of Time Crisis 3 knows where it is with no blacking/brightening of the screen or IR sensors. This can be seen on calibration where the crosshair follows the aim around the screen cointinuously with no triggering/flashing. I would guess that because the gun intercepts the video signal with a cable, it recognizes the TVs location with an internal camera. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:64.40.59.113|64.40.59.113]] ([[User talk:64.40.59.113|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/64.40.59.113|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:You are mistaken. TC3 uses the [[GunCon 2]], which works by measuring the time delay between a sync pulse sent to the controller and the pulse received from the photodiode. This is why the calibration screen is needed. [[User:Gerbrant|Shinobu]] 03:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
::In other words, this is what the article calls "cathode ray timing". As long as a pixel isn't completely black or completely red, the photodiode in a CRT gun can compare the timing of the flickering of the blue and green phosphors to the timing of the video signal. What 64.40.59.113 describes is more like how a [[Fly (pentop computer)|pentop computer]] works. --[[User:Damian Yerrick|Dami'''a'''n Yerri'''c'''k]] ([[User talk:Damian Yerrick|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Damian Yerrick|stalk]]) 04:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
:@cathode ray timing: correct. As for the Fly pen, I've taken a look at the web page, and frankly, it was really sad. It always is when companies try to be cool and end up horribly overdoing it. And couldn't they have thought up a better name? "I brought my Fly." *sniff* On the technological side, it "sees" it's position with a LED-based solution. So I guess it works much like an optical mouse does. Remember how recently someone modded a cheap optical mouse to work like a small (18 by 18 pixels) B&W scanner? Also, it says on the website you need special paper, <s>so I guess it reads some kind of pattern of the paper, probably Anoto, and it</s> (edit: read article) <u>with the Anoto pattern, which the pen uses</u> to establisch it's absolute position, rather than just inferring relative positions like a mouse does. But basically, the technologies seem very similar. [[User:Gerbrant|Shinobu]] 15:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

==Operation Wolf==

Operation Wolf was removed as an example of an arcade game using a positional gun, with the claim that it used an optical gun. According to KLOV.com Operation Wolf always used a positional gun, and I recommend adding it back as it is such a popular game. It revitalized interest in shooting-style arcade games, showing that a scrolling field could work in a gun-based game after Nintendo's forgettable '''Gumshoe'''. [[User:Dj ansi]] 21:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

:That's correct Operation Wolf (arcade version) used a positional gun; not sure why it was removed. I think the home versions may have used light-guns where available. [[User:Y control|Y control]] 10:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

::How could the first light gun be in 1936?? Their weren't even computers, the first computer came in WWII. [[User:Vincentsc|Vincentsc]] 16:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

:::Go to a carnival and play the light gun based target range.

Added modern, IR based, methods (method three) --[[User:83.54.140.19|83.54.140.19]] 11:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

:::I understand it, it wasn't a computergame, I thought so, but okay, I understand. [[User:Vincentsc|Vincentsc]] 10:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

== light gun in fps games? ==

a light gun should be used in fps games, it would make it easier, have a analog stick to move forward and backward and side to side, a trigger, and a scope button, and other commands like enter exit, jump, reload, etc, make a light gun that plugs into a ps3 controller or xbox 360 controller and play fps games like battlefield: bad company with extremely accurate aiming. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Superchad|Superchad]] ([[User talk:Superchad|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Superchad|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:PS3? Xbox 360? Conspicuous by its absence in your comment is the one next generation console that comes out of the box with a light gun controller that uses IR and accelerometers. [[Wii]] have what you want. --[[user:Damian Yerrick|Damian Yerrick]] ([[user talk:Damian Yerrick|☎]]) 01:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

== More pictures! ==

There have been some wacky lightgun designs over the years (notably the [[Menacer]] and [[Super Scope]]); it would be nice to see a wider spread of images beyond two Nintendo products. [[User:Kelvingreen|Kelvingreen]] 09:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

== Terminator 2: Judgment Day ==

I thought the arcade version of ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day (arcade game)|Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' used the positional setup. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 00:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

== SNES Superscope cathode ray timing ==

The SNES Superscope doesn't work quite as described. The article implies that the scope determines where it is aiming based on a timing signal from the SNES, and then transmits the coordinates to the SNES. In actuality, the Scope simply transmits the "I see an excited phosphor!" signal over pin #6 of the connector, which is connected to a pin on the PPU2 chip inside the console. Since this chip is also doing the pixel output, it simply 'latches' the current pixel row and column when the pin makes a 1 to 0 transition.

The major difference is that the Scope doesn't need any kind of timing signal from the console at all, and in fact if you look at the architecture of the console the only regular timing signal is a 60 Hz button-state poll. I've described this in more detail over at the [[Talk:Super Scope|Superscope talk page]]. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]] 02:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

== More elaborate? ==

:"The second method, used by the Super Nintendo Entertainment System's Super Scope and computer light pens is more elaborate but more accurate."

I actually think the first method (cycling through the targets) sounds more elaborate, but maybe that's just me. [[User:Davidhorman|David]] 16:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

== is it worth mentioning that the Wiimote actually uses a ccd sensor? ==

should it be mentioned that the Wiimote instead of simple sensors actually has a digital camera in its tip? (afaik no one has figured out how to get the captured image from the camera, all that can be obtained are the x and y coordintaes of up to 4 ir brightspots)--[[User:TiagoTiago|TiagoTiago]] 01:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:It should if you can cite a source. --[[User:Damian Yerrick|Damian Yerrick]] ([[User talk:Damian Yerrick|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Damian Yerrick|stalk]]) 16:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

== ACT Labs gun? ==

The article makes no mention of the USB lightgun ACT Labs produce for PC use. s this notable enough for inclusion? [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 20:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:It should be if you can [[WP:CITE|cite]] a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. --[[User:Damian Yerrick|Damian Yerrick]] ([[User talk:Damian Yerrick|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Damian Yerrick|stalk]]) 00:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

::Here are some to consider: [http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/index/Act_Labs_PC_USB_Light_Gun.htm], [http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r20992.htm], [http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/actlabs_gs/], etc.  Best, --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|<span style="color:#009">Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles</span>]]</span><sup>''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]''</sup> 00:36, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

== blank? ==

what happened to this page needs urgent repair.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/121.219.104.202|121.219.104.202]] ([[User talk:121.219.104.202|talk]]) 10:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== use of weapon vs firearm ==

Weapon is a non-specific term meaning a device used for combat or military i.e. hurting people.
firearm is more specific and does not carry a specific combat meaning.  While a firearm can be used as a weapon (military rifle) it can also be used for sport (target shooting).
[[User:N9wxu|N9wxu]] ([[User talk:N9wxu|talk]]) 06:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

== pink/orange Justifier is cross platform ==

There was only one type of pink/orange Justifier that plugded into both a blue SNES Justifier or a blue Genesis Justifier.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.111.33.136|75.111.33.136]] ([[User talk:75.111.33.136|talk]]) 04:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Comparison of positional gun to an analog stick ==

Very few analog sticks can rotate the way a positional gun can.--[[User:Asher196|Asher196]] ([[User talk:Asher196|talk]]) 04:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
:Yes, but the article does not equate them with traditional analog sticks. Rather, it compares them in terms of functionality and to that end it is accurate; a positional gun is a form of analog controller. It's odd that this article has a section dedicated to them, but it is preferable to a small article. --[[User:Jtalledo|Jtalledo]] [[User talk:Jtalledo|(talk)]] 14:30, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

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== Light beam gunnery is not just for video games, but also a serious sport. ==

There are pro-match grade light rifles, fitted with battery powered xenon lamps, which are used instead of compressed air rifles for indoor 10-meter precision shooting clubs e.g. at schools. They almost perfectly imitate the size and weight and wood / steel build of cal. 4.5mm / 0.177" professional air rifles. They are used with full-torso support garment for steadier aiming, as if olympic sport. Seem to be popular in Japan, likely due to the lack of noise issues and reduced risk of injury. There is even an ongoing anime / manga series devoted to them, called "Rifle is Beautiful". [[Special:Contributions/80.99.111.252|80.99.111.252]] ([[User talk:80.99.111.252|talk]]) 10:30, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

==Inappropriate citation required.==
Why is "The light gun and its ancestor the light pen are now rarely used as pointing devices due largely to the popularity of the mouse and changes in monitor display technology—conventional light guns work only with CRT monitors" marked as needing a citation when the claim in substantiated by the content of the "Design" section? [[User:JamesRTwine|JamesRTwine]] ([[User talk:JamesRTwine|talk]]) 03:56, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

==Uncited material in need of citations==
I am moving the following uncited material here until it can be properly supported with [[WP:INCITE|inline citations]] of [[WP:IRS|reliable]], [[WP:PSTS|secondary]] sources, per [[WP:V]], [[WP:CS]], [[WP:IRS]], [[WP:PSTS]], [[WP:BLP]], [[WP:NOR]], et al. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=1071078186&oldid=1064900166&title=Light_gun&type=revision This diff] shows where it was in the article. [[User:Nightscream|Nightscream]] ([[User talk:Nightscream|talk]]) 18:52, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

{{collapse top}}
<blockquote>
==LEAD SECTION==
Modern screen-based light guns work by building an optical sensor into the gun, which receives its input from the light emitted by on-screen target(s). The first device of this type, the [[light pen]], was used on the [[Whirlwind (computer)|MIT Whirlwind]] computer.

The light gun and its ancestor the light pen are now rarely used as pointing devices due largely to the popularity of the [[Mouse (computing)|mouse]] and changes in [[computer monitor|monitor]] display technology—conventional light guns work only with [[cathode ray tube|CRT]] monitors.

==Early history==
These early light gun games, like modern [[laser tag]], used small targets (usually moving) onto which a light-sensing tube was mounted; the player used a gun (usually a [[rifle]]) that emitted a beam of light when the [[Trigger (firearms)|trigger]] was pulled. If the beam struck the target, a "hit" was scored.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

==Use in video games==
The video game light gun is typically modeled on a [[Ballistics|ballistic]] weapon (usually a [[pistol]]) and is used for targeting objects on a video screen. With [[Haptic technology|force feedback]], the light gun can also simulate the [[recoil]] of the weapon. The first gun for a home console was in fact a big rifle, the [[Magnavox Odyssey]]'s [[Shooting Gallery (game accessory)|Shooting Gallery]], which looked very lifelike and even needed to be "cocked" after each shot.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Light guns are very popular in arcade games, but had not caught on as well in the home [[video game console]] market until after the [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] (NES), [[Sega Master System]] (SMS), [[Sega Genesis|Mega Drive/Genesis]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] (SNES) systems and Atari XEGS. Many home 'Pong' systems of the 1970s included a pistol or gun for shooting simple targets on screen. [[Nintendo]]'s [[NES Zapper]] for the NES is the most popular example of the light gun, and ''[[Duck Hunt]]'' its most popular game.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Traditional light guns cannot be used on [[Liquid crystal display|LCD]] and [[Plasma display|plasma screens]], and they have problems with [[projection screen]]s.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

There are also light guns for [[Sega Saturn]], [[PlayStation (console)|PlayStation]] and several other console and arcade systems. Recent light gun video games include ''[[Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles]]'', ''[[Time Crisis 4]]'', ''[[Virtua Cop 3]]'', and ''[[The House of the Dead: Overkill]]''.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

In [[2007 in video gaming|2007]], [[Nintendo]] released the [[Wii Zapper]] for the [[Wii]], a peripheral which is actually a plastic shell that houses both the [[Wii Remote]] and [[Wii Remote#Nunchuk|nunchuk]] for gun-style video games. While it does not contain any traditional light gun technology, the peripheral makes use of the Wii Remote's built-in [[Wii Remote#Sensing|infrared tracking system]] to shoot targets that correspond on-screen. Its name is a reference to the classic [[NES Zapper]] for the [[Nintendo Entertainment System]]. Sony has also released attachments that house the [[PlayStation Move]] motion controller in the form of a pistol and rifle, the latter named the Sharp Shooter.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

[[Namco]]'s [[GunCon]] 3 also uses an infrared optical sensor system similar to the [[Wii Remote]].{{fact|date=January 2022}}

==Design==
The "light gun" is named because it uses light as its method of detecting where on screen the user is targeting. The name leads one to believe that the gun itself emits a beam of light, but in fact most light guns actually ''receive'' light through a [[photodiode]] in the [[gun barrel]].{{fact|date=January 2022}}

There are two versions of this technique that are commonly used, but the concept is the same: when the trigger of the gun is pulled, the screen is blanked out to black, and the [[diode]] begins reception. All or part of the screen is painted white in a way that allows the computer to judge where the gun is pointing, based on when the diode detects light. The user of the light gun notices little or nothing, because the period in which the screen is blank is usually only a fraction of a second (''see [[persistence of vision]]'').{{fact|date=January 2022}}

===Cathode ray timing===
[[File:Namco-GunCon-PS1.jpg|right|thumb|The black GunCon made by Namco for the PlayStation]]
[[File:Konami-Justifiers-Genesis-Set.jpg|thumb|The blue and pink [[Konami Justifier]]s made for the Sega Genesis]]
The second method, used by the [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]]'s [[Super Scope]] and computer [[light pen]]s, is more elaborate and more accurate.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

The trick to this method lies in the nature of the [[cathode ray tube]] inside the video monitor (CRTs were the only affordable TV monitors in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when this method was popularized). The screen is drawn by a scanning [[electron]] beam that travels across the screen starting at the top until it hits the end, and then moves down to update the next line. This is done repeatedly until the entire screen is drawn, and appears instantaneous to the human eye as it is done very quickly.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

When the player pulls the trigger, the computer (often assisted by the display circuitry) times how long it takes the electron beam to excite the [[phosphor]] at the location at which the gun is pointed. The light gun sends a signal after sensing the sudden small change in brightness of a point on the screen when the electron gun refreshes that spot. The computer then calculates the targeted position based on the monitor's horizontal refresh rate (the fixed amount of time it takes the beam to get from the left to right side of the screen). Either the computer provides a time base for the horizontal refresh rate through the controller's connector (as in the Super Scope), or the gun reads the composite video signal through a T-connector on the A/V cable (as in the [[GunCon|GunCon 2]]). Once the computer knows where the gun is pointed, it can tell through collision detection if it coincides with the target or not.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Many guns of this type (including the Super Scope) ignore red light, as red phosphors have a much slower rate of decay than green or blue phosphors. As a result, some games brighten the entire screen's green and blue pixels somewhat when the trigger is pulled in order to get a more reliable fix on the position.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Display timing is not possible with plasma, LCD, and DLP monitors, since they do not have an "off" state between refreshes.  Their digital signal processing electronics also may introduce a nontrivial lag between the signal input and display output, which is not predictable because it varies between monitor models and brands and even between mode settings of a single monitor.  A lag which is not very significant for player feedback may be enough to completely destroy the accuracy of a display-timing based light gun system.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

===Infrared emitters===
A new method was developed to compensate for display technologies other than CRT. It relies on one or several [[infrared]] light emitters placed near the screen, and one IR sensor on the muzzle of the gun. When the trigger is pressed, the gun sends the intensity of the IR beam it detects. Since this intensity depends upon both distance and relative angle to the screen, angle sensors are located in the gun. This way a [[Trigonometry|trigonometric]] [[Simultaneous equations|equation system]] is solved, and the muzzle's 3D position relative to the screen is calculated. Then, by projecting the muzzle on the screen with the measured angles the impact point is determined. An early example of this technology (though not using IR) can be seen in the [[Power Glove|NES Power Glove Accessory]], which used three ultrasonic sensors serving the same function as the IR emitters used in some lightguns.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

A simpler variant is commonly used in arcades, where there are no angle detectors but 4 IR sensors. However, this can prove inaccurate when shooting from certain distances and angles, since the calculation of angles and 3D position has a larger margin of error.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Other variants include three or more emitters with different infrared wavelengths and the same number of sensors. With this method and proper calibration three or more relative angles are obtained, thus not needing angle detectors to position the gun.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

Sometimes, the sensors are placed around the screen and the emitter on the gun, but calculations are similar.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

...and modern [[arcade game|arcade]] light gun games.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

The additional IR image processing results in lag or "cursor drift", i.e. when quickly sweeping the light gun across the screen the crosshair will seem to drag slightly behind where the light gun is actually pointing.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

===Image capture===
When the user pulls the trigger the screen is replaced for a split-second with a seemingly random display of black and white pixels, or blocks of [[pixel]]s.  The light gun contains a fine-resolution but low pixel count digital camera with a very narrow field of view. The gun converts the small image into a [[bit array|binary array]] which allows the computer to locate the exact position the gun was pointed at. This method is compatible with any screen of any size. The size of the screen and distance to shooter is entered into the gun driver software to determine the dimensions of the random blocks/pixels to best allow rendering on the light gun CCD.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

===Rectangular positioning===
The light from the LCD TV or screen is used as reference point. Optionally, a thin rectangular border can be added to the display content, for games with a dark graphics theme.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

An advantage of this method is that the size and distortion of the rectangle screen outline can also be used to determine the position and angle of the gun relative to the screen. Theoretically this can be used to create a 3D tunnel effect, by moving the gun around the screen to hide behind scenery or peek around corners.{{fact|date=January 2022}}

===Multiplayer===
A game that uses more than one gun reads both triggers continuously and then, when one player pulls a gun's trigger, the game reads that gun until it knows which object was hit.{{fact|date=January 2022}}
</blockquote>
{{collapse bottom}}

== "Poorly designed games" is unjustified judgement of value ==

Greetings, fellows.

Regarding the following paragraph: "A side effect of this is that on poorly designed games, often a player can point the gun at a light bulb or other bright light source, pull the trigger, and cause the system to falsely detect a hit on the first target every time. Better games account for this either by detecting if all targets appear to match or by displaying a black screen and verifying that no targets match."

I don't think "poorly designed" is good wording here. This is technology; solving these problems may seem obvious in hindsight but it certainly required a lot of creativity, and these techniques might well have beeb patented.

But even if it weren't, to call a whole game "poorly designed" because it didn't take into account how players might cheat in single player sounds very excessive.

I think I have made my point.

Best regards,
[[User:Victorvscn|~victorsouza]] ([[User talk:Victorvscn|talk]]) 12:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)