View source for Talk:Mexican drug war

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{{split article|from=Mexican Drug War|to=Propaganda in the Mexican Drug War|diff=http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?Mexican_Drug_War&diff=next&oldid=486512756|date=9-4-2012}}

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==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment==
[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-01-13">13 January 2020</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-05-01">1 May 2020</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/The_College_of_Wooster/Latin_America_and_the_United_States_(Spring_2020)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Ag611232|Ag611232]].

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== This article needs to be updated ==

The "course of the conflict" section needs to be updated. With the deaths of Lazcano (I know he's marked dead in the infobox, but it should be included in the article as well) and  Manuel Torres Félix, the section should definitely be updated. Just adjusting the infobox is not good enough. --[[User:Futuretrillionaire| FutureTrillionaire]] ([[User talk:Futuretrillionaire|talk]]) 22:46, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

:Most of the current events are found in the cartels' articles and in the drug bosses biographies ([[Heriberto Lazcano Lazcano]], [[Infighting in the Gulf Cartel]] and [[Infighting in Los Zetas]], for example). I think we should update some information but not move away from its main goal: give an overall and general view of what's going on in Mexico. Details should be in biographies and in the cartels' articles. What's your take? [[User:ComputerJA|ComputerJA]] ([[User talk:ComputerJA|talk]]) 23:16, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
::I got the sense that this is a war article. Not much different from the [[Syrian civil war]] or the [[War in Afghanistan]]. Any war article should have a "plot of the war" section, that describes the events of the war, and that it should be updated when necessary. --[[User:Futuretrillionaire| FutureTrillionaire]] ([[User talk:Futuretrillionaire|talk]]) 23:23, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
:::You're right. Feel free to update the article. Right now I'm solely concentrating on biographies, and I'll probably stick with them for some months. [[User:ComputerJA|ComputerJA]] ([[User talk:ComputerJA|talk]]) 23:52, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

::::The war is still in flux and updates on the most relevant events are still needed. Cheers, [[User:Rowan Forest|Rowan Forest]] ([[User talk:Rowan Forest|talk]]) 15:21, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

:::::The Lazcano incident 7 October 2012 is appearing twice. Cheers, [[User: Bas Vossen]] ([[User talk:Bas Vossen|talk]]) 20:11, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion ==
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* [[commons:File:Sinaloa Cartel Plaza Bosses 2013.png|Sinaloa Cartel Plaza Bosses 2013.png]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2018-06-26T17:51:13.147680 | Sinaloa Cartel Plaza Bosses 2013.png -->
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. [[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:51, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

==US support for Cartels?==

Keep seeing this issue being added and removed, with both sides not offering much in the way of discussion. Personally I favor deletion; most of the sources currently used to support the allegations are from conspiracy theory or otherwise fringe political sites. Some of them don’t even talk about the Mexican Drug War at all (one goes on and on about the Contras but hardly even mentions Mexico). Get better sources or don’t include it, that’s my stance.[[User:Jogarz1921|Jogarz1921]] ([[User talk:Jogarz1921|talk]]) 23:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
*{{ping|Jogarz1921}} Are you specifically referring to the CIA allegations in the infobox? Or what exactly? I think the infobox needs a major clean-up. I get that the CIA has been suspected of working with drug trafficking groups for decades, but flooding these claims with sources to tilt this allegation on one side more than the other is problematic. Please feel free to trim most of the information you deem inappropriate. I will be reviewing the changes you do, and we can always circle back here to discuss. I personally wouldn't delete all the allegations, but trimming them down is a must. This article needs a major clean-up. I hope to get to it someday in the future. Regards, [[User:MX|MX]]<small> (</small><big>[[User talk:MX|<span style="color:darkred">'''✉'''</span>]]</big> • [[Special:Contributions/MX|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''✎'''</span>]]<small>)</small> 23:43, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
** {{ping|MX}}, yeah, I was referring to the infobox. Obviously everyone knows that the CIA has had dealings in the drug trade, but claiming that they support the Cartels against the Mexican government in the current conflict is an audacious claim indeed. I’d approve it if the sources were good, but right now most of them aren’t. It’s just [[gish gallop]].[[User:Jogarz1921|Jogarz1921]] ([[User talk:Jogarz1921|talk]]) 23:47, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Jogarz1921}} Great. I also want to notify {{u|Dreamy Jazz}} (courtesy ping) that we are doing this, since he reverted a change you made. [[User:MX|MX]]<small> (</small><big>[[User talk:MX|<span style="color:darkred">'''✉'''</span>]]</big> • [[Special:Contributions/MX|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''✎'''</span>]]<small>)</small> 02:16, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::::I support that deletion. A few CIA incidents were taken out of context and used to build conspiracy theories. Cheers, [[User:Rowan Forest|Rowan Forest]] ([[User talk:Rowan Forest|talk]]) 02:27, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::::I support this action, after seeing the sources it uses. [[User:Dreamy Jazz|Dreamy <i style="color:#d01e1e">'''Jazz'''</i>]] 🎷 <sup>''[[User_talk:Dreamy Jazz|talk to me]]'' &#124; ''[[Special:Contributions/Dreamy Jazz|my contributions]]''</sup> 07:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::In fact, if a town's local mafia hires some Chinese dudes to shake some store owners for "protection", it does not mean that that the Cartel(s) are formally supported by China. The same with FARC, as they will sell cocaine to any buyer. That Infobox is full of alleged (unproven) links blown out of proportions, and make it look like a summary of World War 3. That is unacceptable. The consensus seems to clean it up (delete them). So I am going ahead.  Cheers, [[User:Rowan Forest|Rowan Forest]] ([[User talk:Rowan Forest|talk]]) 14:14, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

== PRI as "Centrist" ==

I would  just add that it seems odd to me that the PRI is labeled as "centrist." It seems more fitting to call them a less loaded term like "institutionalist" or "dominant party." Their long history of populism, nationalization, and protectionism hardly earns them the deference of "centrist." Although maybe that can be considered the center in Mexico.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/50.205.14.135|50.205.14.135]] ([[User talk:50.205.14.135#top|talk]]) 13:43, 21 December 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I agree. {{done}}. Cheers, [[User:Rowan Forest|Rowan Forest]] ([[User talk:Rowan Forest|talk]]) 14:19, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

== Drug War over? ==

The Mexican president Lopez Obrador declared that the war is over and he won't pursue it anymore: http://time.com/5517391/mexico-president-ends-drug-war/ [[Special:Contributions/187.179.128.117|187.179.128.117]] ([[User talk:187.179.128.117|talk]]) 19:14, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
*I'd say we have to wait a while. Peña Nieto also stated he would move away from the "kingpin strategy" and focus on reducing crime. The reality was completely different since his security plan included an undisclosed list of 122 most-wanted criminals to target ([https://www.excelsior.com.mx/nacional/faltan-14-objetivos-clave-por-detener-de-122-capos-prioritarios/1257534 most who were in fact arrested]). Seems more like a political move with no real impact. [[User:MX|MX]]<small> (</small><big>[[User talk:MX|<span style="color:darkred">'''✉'''</span>]]</big> • [[Special:Contributions/MX|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''✎'''</span>]]<small>)</small> 19:25, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
::This war did not stop overnight just because AMLO said so unilaterally. If he proposed a coherent strategy, we have not heard of it and nothing stops the narcos to continue their war against the population and against other competing cartels. A campaign promise is far from having ended the war. Do not confuse facts with demagoguery. The violence continues, and many capos are still to be arrested, and they will not go down peacefully, nor their rivals will respect the vacuum left.  [[User:Rowan Forest|Rowan Forest]] ([[User talk:Rowan Forest|talk]]) 19:57, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

== Ibox ==
The infobox has been greatly reduced. The main problem is that our readers are misled into believing that the cartels are all on the same side. [[User:Jim Michael|Jim Michael]] ([[User talk:Jim Michael|talk]]) 11:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

== Requested move 12 September 2020 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: '''Moved''' {{RMnac}}  [[User:Synoman Barris|<span style="font-family: Bell Centennial; color:Red; text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Megan☺️</span>]] [[User talk:Synoman Barris|<span style="Blue">''<sup>Talk to the monster</sup>''</span>]] 09:23, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
----



[[:Mexican Drug War]] → {{no redirect|Mexican drug war}} – No apparent reason for caps here.  This is a descriptive title, usually lowercased in sources when not in a title. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 00:23, 12 September 2020 (UTC)<small>—'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 03:16, 19 September 2020 (UTC)</small>

'''Stats''' from books: [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=*+Mexican+Drug+War%2C*+Mexican+drug+war%2CMexico%27s+Drug+War%2CMexico%27s+drug+war&year_start=1980&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3] shows that lowercase is common, as are other descriptions.  Per [[MOS:CAPS]] we should only cap it if sources do so consistently.  Not even close. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 00:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' When the "drug war" is used in a sentence, it is typically lower case, when its used in a title it is upper case. But wikipedia wants us to [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization)|use sentence case, not title case]].'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|<b style="color:Black">talk</b>]]</sub> 21:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom.--[[User:Ortizesp|Ortizesp]] ([[User talk:Ortizesp|talk]]) 14:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
{{abot}}

Then I'm changing the lead for consistency. [[Special:Contributions/100.40.12.15|100.40.12.15]] ([[User talk:100.40.12.15|talk]]) 23:37, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

== File:Criminal organizations presence (2020).png and its use ==
[[File:Criminal organizations presence (2020).png|thumb|440x440px|File:Criminal organizations presence (2020).png]]
The map used in the infobox, File:Criminal organizations presence (2020).png, is presented in said infobox in a way which implies that it is a territorial map, represents where in the states each cartel is located. But it’s not, it seems to show what state each cartel has a presence in, in a manner which looks like a territorial map. This is confusing, as seen by derivative maps ([[:File:La Familia Michoacana presence.png]], [[:File:Los Zetas presence.png]], and [[:File:Sinaloa Cartel presence.png]]) which use it to display the territory of specific cartels. I’ve been [[Wikipedia:Be bold|bold]] and removed it, but it)s going to need to be discussed further here I feel. [[User:MRN2electricboogaloo|MRN2electricboogaloo]] ([[User talk:MRN2electricboogaloo|talk]]) 06:17, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

==Wiki Education assignment: LIBR 1 Working with Sources==
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Las_Positas_College/LIBR_1_Working_with_Sources_(Fall_2022) | assignments = [[User:EL203|EL203]] | start_date = 2022-08-17 | end_date = 2022-12-20 }}

<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Kdavis25|Kdavis25]] ([[User talk:Kdavis25|talk]]) 22:47, 12 December 2022 (UTC)</span>

== The lead sentence should be changed ==
The term "[[War on drugs]]" originated in American politics, referring to a wide range of policies meant to suppress domestic use of illegal drugs. The term is designed to be incendiary and motivating to American voters without representing any specific political program, and it does '''not''' refer to some kind of ongoing military conflict in the United States between drug dealers and the government, as there is in Mexico. Therefore, it is not appropriate to uncritically describe the low-intensity civil war the Mexican people have suffered as "a theatre of the war on drugs." Therefore, I have simply moved the "war on drugs" phrasing to a little lower in the article's lead. [[User:Spacemarine10|Spacemarine10]] ([[User talk:Spacemarine10|talk]]) 20:28, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

== Mentions of the brutal executions?   ==

Specifically, while not confirmed whether to be a drug cartel or not, it is likely either a gang or a cartel, the funky town infamous gore video.  It's a horrible video to watch, but I feel as though with the level of infamy it's gained online, it should at least get a minor mention, with a disclaimer saying it's unconfirmed as to whether it's a drug cartel. [[User:Theweast234|Theweast234]] ([[User talk:Theweast234|talk]]) 09:38, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

== “Low-intensity conflict” isn’t really accurate ==

The conflict has been quite deadly, and the sources on it in the “List of ongoing armed conflicts” Wikipedia page prove it. [[User:LordOfWalruses|LordOfWalruses]] ([[User talk:LordOfWalruses|talk]]) 01:40, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

==Wiki Education assignment: United States and Latin America==
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Ablack csustan|Ablack csustan]] ([[User talk:Ablack csustan|talk]]) 20:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</span>