View source for Talk:Order of the Sacred Treasure

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== ==
This needs to be merged with [[Zuihosho]] - --[[User:Liveforever|Liveforever]] 8 July 2005 16:34 (UTC)

==Moving this page?==
Every source I've encountered, including the Japanese Prime Minister's [http://www8.cao.go.jp/english/decoration/zuiho.html Decoration Bureau's English-language sub-page], identifies this award in terms of a singular noun -- Order of the Sacred Treasure, ''not'' Order of the Sacred Treasure<u>s</u> ...? If it would be perceived as an improvement, I would be willing to do the work involved in correcting this trivial error.  

Is there is general agreement/disagreement with moving or re-naming this page from [[Order of the Sacred Treasures]] to [[Order of the Sacred Treasure]]?   Perhaps the current spelling re-direct is really all that's needed. --[[User:Ooperhoofd|Ooperhoofd]] 18:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

==<s>Status: pending needed support/citation?==
The following names are questionable.  Supporting reference citations were not found in a superficial Google search.  Any or all can be promptly restored when a verified relationship to this honor is posted:</s>
* <s>[[George Edward Gauntlett]] (Japanese name [[Ganto Tadashi]]) --[[User:Ooperhoofd|Ooperhoofd]] 23 August 2007</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Friedrich Lederer]], 1992 <:ref> Document Nr. 10819 ''Heisei'' 4, Sept.22</ref> --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Fukuyoshi Kanai]] --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Otsuma Kotaka]] (1884-1970) --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[William H. Rogers]] --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Diego Simonetti]], 1920 --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]]  15:42, 9 January 2009</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Toraji Soma]] --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Tse Kai Ann]], 1985. --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 10 October 2008</s> MOVED, see below
* <s>[[Raymond Ernest Oliver]] (1920-2005) Honor awarded 14 September 1968. [[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] 13:58, 27 June 2009</s> MOVED, see below

==Status: notability?==
Does it make sense to limit new additions to this list <s>excluding those with plainly valid citation support, like Smith below</s>?  
* <s>Sir [[Edmund Charles Wyldbore Smith]] (1877-1938)<:ref>[http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32095/pages/10197/page.pdf ''London Gazette,'' p. 10197.] 22 October 1920; [http://www.thepeerage.com/index.htm  Peerage]: [http://thepeerage.com/p3218.htm#i32180   Edmund Charles Wyldbore Smith,  ID #32180].</ref></s> RESTORED
Is it appropriate at this stage of the article's development to initiate a standard limiting names on this select list to 
:(a) those who already have Wikipedia articles 
:<u>and</u> 
:(b) those who are notable for something other than being honored with this Imperial decoration -- ''see,'' e.g., US [[Navy Cross (United States)|Navy Cross]] edit history? 

This diff is a first step in seeking consensus opinion. <s>[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]]  18:36, 2 April 2009</s> --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] ([[User talk:Tenmei|talk]]) 14:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

In a context informed by practices which seem to have worked out well at [[Navy Cross (United States)|Navy Cross]], all new additions who aren't already featured in an article are re-redirected to this talk page section with the following edit history explanation:
::''people listed here must have articles on Wikipedia and be notable for something other than receiving this Japanese honor -- see "Status: Notability" on talk page''

The names of those recipients whose award is confirmed by a reliable source, but who do not have an article yet are listed below:
{{col-begin}}
{{col-2}}
* 1st class? [[Jules Chanoine]]<ref name="L'Harmattan">[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245  L'Harmattan].</ref> --?
* 1st class? [[Eliezer Baptista Da Silva]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* 1st class? [[Tadahiro Sakimoto]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* 1st class? [[Kenchichi Yoshizawa]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?

* 2nd class? [[Mary Griggs Burke]], 1987<ref>http://www.ny.us.emb-japan.go.jp/en/t/2010/101103.html</ref> --?
* 2nd class? [[Samuel A. Goldlith]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* 2nd class? [[Hugh Patrick]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* 2nd class? [[Sakip Sananci]], 1992<ref name=L'Harmattan"/> --?

* [[Samuel William Coulbourn]] (1986) <ref> Commander Fleet Activities, Sasebo></ref>
* 3rd class? [[Douglas Greenwald]], 1986<ref>[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504EFDA143BF93BA25752C0A961958260&scp=1&sq=Douglas+Greenwald%2C+83%2C+Editor+And+Economist+for+McGraw-Hill Canedy, Dana. "Douglas Greenwald, 83, Editor And Economist for McGraw-Hill"], ''New York Times.'' January 18, 1997.</ref> --?
* 3rd class [[Miyeko Murase]], 2010<ref>http://www.ny.us.emb-japan.go.jp/en/t/2010/101103.html</ref> --?
* 3rd class? [[Gaston Renondeau]] (1879-1967)<ref>武内博編著　『来日西洋人名辞典』　日外アソシエーツ　普及版　1995</ref> --?
* 3rd class? [[René Sieffert]]<ref name="L'Harmattan" /><ref>{{cite news |last=Kirkup |first=James |url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/renatildecopy-sieffert-549629.html |title=René Sieffert, Japanologist who translated the 'Ten Thousand Leaves' of the ''Man'yōshū'' |work=Independent |location=London |date=April 17, 2004}}</ref> --?
* 3rd class? [[Herbert Zachert]], 1976<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
{{col-2}}
* 4th class? [[Georg Heer]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* 4th class? [[Roy Hisashi Inouye]], 2002<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with gold rays and rosette</ref> --?
* 4th class? [[Franz Seitelberger]], 1989<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site(in French)], Order with gold rays and rosette</ref> --?
* 4th class? [[Henry Shibata]], 2007<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with gold rays and rosette</ref> --?
* 4th class? [[Masaho Takahashi]], 2002<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with gold rays and rosette</ref> --?
* 4th class? [[Dayasiri Warnakulasooriya]], 1996<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with gold rays and rosette</ref> --?
* 4th class? [[Jesús González Valles]], 1995<ref>[http://www.elpais.com/articulo/agenda/JAPoN/ESPAnA/JAPoN/RECONOCIMIENTO/elpepigen/19950501elpepiage_4/Tes/ (Reference from "El Pais", Spanish newspaper)];  [[Asociación de Estudios Japoneses (Spanish)]]: [http://www.unizar.es/aej/miembros/index2_04.htm ].</ref> --?

* <s>5th class? [[Fujitaro Kubota|Fujitaro Kubota]] (1879-1973)<ref>Honor awarded 1973 -- Appelo, Tim. [http://www.seattleu.edu/home/news_events/magazine/details.asp?elItemID=MAG_1177  "University of the Future: The physical transformation into a premier independent university,"] ''Seattle University Magazine.'' Summer 2008; [[Kubota Gardens]]: [http://www.kubota.org/history.htm  short history].</ref></s> RESTORED
* 5th class? [[Carl Hermann Ule]], 1988<ref name="L'Harmattan gsrays" /> --?
{{col-2}}
{{col-end}}

:<u>Class unknown</u>
{{col-begin}}
{{col-2}}
* [[Kiheiji Amamiya]], 1984<ref name="L'Harmattan gsrays" /> --?
* [[Hilda Chen Apuy]]<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], First Latin American honored by Japanese government</ref>  --?
* [[Charles Appolinaire Baltet]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Tristan Beplat]]<ref>{{cite news |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9907E2D9173DF930A35751C1A961958260&scp=1&sq=tristan+beplat |last=Gilpin |first=Kenneth |title=Tristan E. Beplat, 85, Banker Who Aided Japan After War |work=New York Times |date=December 3. 1997}}</ref> --?
* [[Guido Biscaretti]]<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Commander</ref> --?
* [[Alice Bolduc]], 1999<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Klaus Bungert]], 1994<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Willem Grootaers]], 1986<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Commander</ref> --?
* [[Fumiko Higashiyama]], 1984<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* <s>[[Tokubei Kuroda]], 1939<ref name="L'Harmattan"/></s> RESTORED
* [[Philippe Marie Joseph François Alain d'Lannoy]]<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Grand Cross</ref> --?
* [[Gerhard Lüke]], 1991<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with gold rays</ref> --?
{{col-2}}
* [[Masahiko Nakano]], 2002<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Order with ribbon and gold rays, presented in person by H. M.  Emperor Akihito</ref> --?
* [[Frank Okamura]], 1981<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/14/nyregion/14okamura.html?scp=1&sq=Frank+Okamura Lavietes, Stuart. "Frank Okamura, Bonsai Expert, Is Dead at 94"], ''New York Times.'' January 14, 2006.</ref> --?
* [[Masunori Ōseki]]<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Maurice de Patoul]]<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Grand officer</ref> --?
* [[Jean-Claude Redonnet]]<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site (in French)], Commander</ref> --?
* [[Charles Shriver Reifsnider]], 1941<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765926,00.html Out of Japan - TIME<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> --?
* [[Carl Shoup | Carl Sumner Shoup]]<ref>[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E5D9123CF932A05750C0A9669C8B63&scp=1&sq=Carl+S.+Shoup Johnston, David Cay. "Carl S. Shoup, 97; Shaped Japan's Tax Code"], ''New York Times.'' March 31, 2000.</ref> --?
* [[Thomas K. Shoyama]], 1992<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Sergio Silva do Amaral]], 1996<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Gunther Sohl]], 1998<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
* [[Elisabeth Süpke]], 1997<ref>[http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index.asp?navig=catalogue&obj=article&no=8245 L'Harmattan web site(in French)], Order with gold rays</ref>  --?
* [[Samba Tall]], 20005<ref name="L'Harmattan"/> --?
{{col-end}}

The names of those with neither confirmation by a reliable source nor an article are listed below:
{{col-begin}}
{{col-2}}
* 3rd class? [[Kouichi Masubuchi]], 1995 --?
{{col-2}}
* 3rd class? [[Raymond Ernest Oliver]] (1920-2005)<ref>Honor award 14 September 1968</ref> --?
{{col-end}}

In due course, perhaps all or most of these can be restored to the article.<!-- {{reflist}} --> --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] ([[User talk:Tenmei|talk]]) 18:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

==Status: verifiability?==
Does it make sense to limit new additions to this list? This thread is a first step in seeking consensus opinion.

Is it appropriate at this stage of the article's development to initiate a standard limiting names on this select list to 
:(a) those who already have Wikipedia articles 
:<u>and</u> 
:(b) those whose award of this Japanese honor is also verified by a reliable source citation  -- ''see,'' e.g., US [[Navy Cross (United States)|Navy Cross]] edit history? 

In a context informed by practices which seem to have worked out well at [[Navy Cross (United States)|Navy Cross]], all new additions who aren't already featured in an article could be re-redirected to this talk page section with the following edit history explanation:
::''the award of this Japanese honor must be confirmed by a reliable source citation -- see "Status: verifiability" on talk page''

The names of those with neither confirmation by a reliable source nor an article are listed below:
{{Col-begin}}
{{col-2}}
*  [[Vladimir Devidé]], 1983
* <s>[[George Edward Gauntlett]]</s> RESTORED
* [[Friedrich Lederer]], 1992 --?
* [[Fukuyoshi Kanai]] --?
* [[Diego Simonetti]], 1920 --?
{{col-2}}
* [[Toraji Soma]]  --?
* [[Tse Kai Ann]], 1985.  --?
* [[Raymond Ernest Oliver]] (1920-2005)  --? 
{{col-end}}

The names of those with an article, but with no reliable source confirming this honor are listed below:
{{col-begin}}
{{col-2}}
* <s>3rd class? [[Dettmar Cramer]], 1971</s> Citation added (obituary).
* <s>3rd class? [[Edoardo Chiossone]], 1891</s> Citation added.
* 3rd class? [[Yuet Keung Kan]]
* <s>5th class? [[George Edward Luckman Gauntlett]]</s> RESTORED

{{col-end}}
:<u>Class unknown</u>
{{col-begin}}

{{col-2}}
* [[Otsuma Kotaka]] (1884-1970) --?
* [[William H. Rogers]] --?
{{col-2}}
* <s>[[Yoshikawa Eiji]].</s> RESTORED
{{col-end}}

In due course, perhaps all or most of these can be restored to the article.<!-- {{reflist}} --> --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] ([[User talk:Tenmei|talk]]) 18:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

:''Is it appropriate at this stage of the article's development to initiate a standard limiting names on this select list to (a) those who already have Wikipedia articles and (b) those whose award of this Japanese honor is also verified by a reliable source citation'' -- Yes, every person included should both have an article and have a disinterested, reliable source for the claim of an award. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]])

:No. The article is about the award itself, not the people who have received it. Any list should include any recipient of the award, whether or not they have a wiki page. That they do not have a wiki page does not get away from the fact that they received the award. It should always be so. I have been caught out by this in the past. I added a name to a list, only to have it removed because the individual did not have an English Wikipedia page (they had one in another language, which I HAD linked to). We have to get away from this sort of thing.--[[User:Samesawed|Samesawed]] ([[User talk:Samesawed|talk]]) 10:24, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

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== External links modified ==

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== Removed Thomas Maxwell Hague ==

Removed entry for "Thomas Maxwell Hague (1921-2008), awarded 1992" as not [[WP:NOTABLE]].  Internet search did not return any results for the name or the award. If re-added please add a [[WP:SOURCE]].<small> &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:MrDolomite|MrDolomite]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:MrDolomite|Talk]]</small> 14:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
**Found original edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Order_of_the_Sacred_Treasure&diff=prev&oldid=1097583987 here] by {{user|Taiho-2}} and will leave note on their user talk page.<small> &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:MrDolomite|MrDolomite]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:MrDolomite|Talk]]</small> 14:35, 24 May 2024 (UTC)