View source for Talk:Pangram/Archive 1

{{talk archive navigation}}
== Polish pangram ==

The best Polish (PL) pangram is:
Pójdźże, kiń tę chmurność w głąb flaszy!

It has every letter from the Polish alphabet and each letter occurs only once<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:213.134.142.22|213.134.142.22]] ([[User talk:213.134.142.22#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/213.134.142.22|contribs]]) 20:32, 1 October 2003 (UTC)</small>

== Hungarian pangram ==

The Hungarian one only gives you all accented characters, but only uses those accented vowels: árvíztűrő tükörfúrógép (flood-enduring mirror drilling machine).
Not a true pangram, but since ő and ű are not well-liked by fonts, this is a good stress test for them.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ralesk|Ralesk]] ([[User talk:Ralesk#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ralesk|contribs]]) 20:06, 3 October 2003 (UTC)</small>

== Protection needed? ==

Does this page need to be protected anymore? [[User:TMC1221|TMC1221]] 00:59, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

== Not all letters (sort of) ==

Actually, all given Pangrams only contain a mixture of small and large letters, but never the whole of them. A (English alphabet) typist will never be able to precisely give his statement to a font as long as he isn't presented a Pangram containing at least 2*26 = 52 letters, 26 small ones and 26 large ones.

Maybe there is a good Pangram that really contains all small and big letters? Thanks, --[[User:Abdull|Abdull]] 16:11, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== A Fool in Haskell ==

Running the Haskell program

map (length &&& head) . group . sort . map toLower

on the string

"Only the fool would take trouble to verify that his sentence was composed of ten a's, three b's, four c's, four d's, forty-six e's, sixteen f's, four g's, thirteen h's, fifteen i's, two k's, nine l's, four m's, twenty-five n's, twenty-four o's, five p's, sixteen r's, forty-one s's, thirty-seven t's, ten u's, eight v's, eight w's, four x's, eleven y's, twenty-seven commas, twenty-three apostrophes, seven hyphens and, last but not least, a single !"

gives

<nowiki>[(73,' '),(1,'!'),(23,'\''),(27,','),(7,'-'),(10,'a'),(3,'b'),(4,'c'),(4,'d'),(46,'e'),
(16,'f'),(4,'g'),(13,'h'),(15,'i'),(2,'k'),(9,'l'),(4,'m'),(25,'n'),(24,'o'),(5,'p'),
(16,'r'),(41,'s'),(37,'t'),(10,'u'),(8,'v'),(8,'w'),(4,'x'),(11,'y')]</nowiki><!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:192.16.196.178|192.16.196.178]] ([[User talk:192.16.196.178#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/192.16.196.178|contribs]]) 18:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)</small>

== No "f" ==

{{resolved| Jackdaws love my big sphinx o'''<big>f</big>''' quartz. —[[User:Pengo|Pengo]] 00:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC) }}

"Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz" does not contain an f.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/12.186.229.36|12.186.229.36]] ([[User talk:12.186.229.36|talk]]) 04:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Um, yes it does. Look again.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/210.23.129.201|210.23.129.201]] ([[User talk:210.23.129.201|talk]]) 03:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::No, it doesn't. It also doesn't contain y. or ƿ. or v, c, e, x, r, s, z, ø, m, b, n, j, w, æ, u, f, g, ʦ, k, l, h, t, i, a, q, d, or o. [[Special:Contributions/125.236.180.94|125.236.180.94]] ([[User talk:125.236.180.94|talk]]) 14:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

::What about "of" for the f? --[[User:Dthomsen8|DThomsen8]] ([[User talk:Dthomsen8|talk]]) 00:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

:::125.236.180.94, are you being serious?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/78.82.141.241|78.82.141.241]] ([[User talk:78.82.141.241|talk]]) 00:32, 21 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Too long! ==

I don't see the point of including looong pangrams.  Why are extremely long pangrams (greater than fifty letters) included?

Therefore, I have move the following (all >50, except the palindrome) from the article page to this page:

* Forsaking monastic tradition, twelve jovial friars gave up their vocation for a questionable existence on the flying trapeze. (106 letters) 

* No kidding -- Lorenzo called off his trip to visit Mexico City just because they told him the conquistadores were extinct. (99 letters) 

*Jelly-like above the high wire, six quaking pachyderms kept the climax of the extravaganza in a dazzling state of flux. (96 letters) 

* Ebenezer unexpectedly bagged two tranquil aardvarks with his jiffy vacuum cleaner. (71 letters) 

* Six javelins thrown by the quick savages whizzed forty paces beyond the mark. (64 letters) 

* The explorer was frozen in his big kayak just after making queer discoveries. (64 letters) 

* The July sun caused a fragment of black pine wax to ooze on the velvet quilt. (61 letters)

* The public was amazed to view the quickness and dexterity of the juggler. (60 letters) 

* While Suez sailors wax parquet decks, Afghan jews vomit jauntily abaft. (59 letters)  

* We quickly seized the black axle and just saved it from going past him. (57 letters) 

* Six big juicy steaks sizzled in a pan as five workmen left the quarry. (56 letters) 

* While making deep excavations we found some quaint bronze jewelry. (56 letters) 

* Jaded zombies acted quaintly but kept driving their oxen forward. (55 letters) 

* A mad boxer shot a quick, gloved jab to the jaw of his dizzy opponent. (54 letters) 

* The job requires extra pluck and zeal from every young wage earner. (54 letters) 

* A quart jar of oil mixed with zinc oxide makes a very bright paint. (53 letters) 

* Whenever the black fox jumped the squirrel gazed suspiciously. (53 letters) 

* We promptly judged antique ivory buckles for the next prize. (50 letters)


:I kind of disagree. I think that a longer pangram that makes sense is just as notable as the super-short pangrams that are kind of confusing. For example, "Brick quiz whangs jumpy veldt fox" sounds really awkward, but in most of the above pangrams the individual words actually relate to each other.  --[[User:PseudoChron|PseudoChron]] 04:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

#* An inspired calligrapher can create pages of beauty using stick ink, quill, brush, pick-axe, buzz saw, or even strawberry jam.
#* A popular belief is that fornication would be a quick fix for some overzealously judicious governments.
#* About sixty codfish eggs will make a quarter pound of very fizzy jelly. 
#* A mad boxer shot a quick, gloved jab to the jaw of his dizzy opponent.
#* Alfredo just  must  bring very exciting news to the plaza quickly.
#* Back in my quaint garden jaunty zinnias vie with flaunting phlox.
#* Astronaut Quincy B. Zack defies gravity with six jet fuel pumps.


:I'll not enter into this debate just yet, but in deference, I'm putting some long ones here . . . I'm adding the short ones I found to the main page. Allow me to cast my lot with [[User:PseudoChron|PseudoChron]], however. "Junky qoph flags vext crwd zimb" and "Bcfhjmpqvxyz isn't a kluge word" just don't do it for me. Sorry . . . [[User:Sehrgut|Sehr Gut]] 16:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


:I agree with [[User:PseudoChron|PseudoChron]], mostly because really short ones usually don't make sense.  As long as it makes sense, it's fine for me, but if it's too long, it also makes it stale.  For example, if your sentence has a thousand letters, that doesn't sound so amazing anymore.  The best pangram that I have seen so far, both short and makes sense, is '''The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.'''

::—— <span class="nounderlinelink">[[User:The Unknown Hitchhiker|
<span style="color:#67d4e9">'''T'''</span><span style="color:#62cade">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#5ec1d4">'''e'''</span> <span style="color:#54adbf">'''U'''</span><span style="color:#50a4b4">'''n'''</span><span style="color:#4b9aa9">'''k'''</span><span style="color:#46919f">'''n'''</span><span style="color:#428794">'''o'''</span><span style="color:#3d7d8a">'''w'''</span><span style="color:#38747f">'''n'''</span> <span style="color:#2f606a">'''H'''</span><span style="color:#2a575f">'''i'''</span><span style="color:#254d55">'''t'''</span><span style="color:#21434a">'''c'''</span><span style="color:#1c3a40">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#173035">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#13272a">'''i'''</span><span style="color:#0e1d20">'''k'''</span><span style="color:#091315">'''e'''</span><span style="color:#050a0b">'''r'''</span>]]</span> 14:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

== The Finnish pangram is wrong ==

The translation of törkylempijävongahdus should be "Filth-lover's howl".
[[User:128.214.205.5|128.214.205.5]] 13:20, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Here is an amaxing Pangram Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz, isnt it amazing

== True Self-referencing Pangram ==

This pangram lists four a's, one b, one c, two d's, twenty-nine e's, eight f's, three g's, five h's, eleven i's, one j, one k, three l's, two m's, twenty-two n's, fifteen o's, two p's, one q, seven r's, twenty-six s's, nineteen t's, four u's, five v's, nine w's, two x's, four y's, and one z. [[User:Fëaluinix|Fëaluinix]] 08:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

== Miniature zebras ==

The EPSON FX-850/1050 user's manual uses the following sentences to show different fonts.
:We've just seen your excellent ad for '''miniature zebras''' in a recent back issue of <u>Trader's Times</u>.  What is the price schedule for quantities over one gross?
&#x2013; [[User:b_jonas|b_jonas]] 13:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== Only letters with diacritical marks ==

In the section with "only letters with diacritical marks" there are one Swedish and one Norwegian example, both of which contain <b>no</b> diacritical marks. In the Norwegian language, æ, ø, and å are considered separate characters in the alphabet, and are not other characters marked with diacritical marks. The same goes for the Swedish language regarding å, ä, and ö. For more on this, see [[Diacritic]], [[Norwegian language]], or [[Swedish language]]. I have removed the Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish entries, since they are simply erroneous.
[[User:Kjosmoen|Kjosmoen]] 00:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

== Graffiti? ==

Is it just me, or is there some real rubbish in the Perfect Pangrams section? Doesn't make any sense to me anyway.
EDITED TO ADD: Ah I see now. The indents are translations. I think they really should be more clearly indicated as such.

:The indents are consistent with the foreign language section, so whatever is done for one should be done for the other. I don't know if there is a standard Wiki way of indicating translations.  [[User:Canon|Canon]] 23:34, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

::I made the same mistake at first. Perhaps italicizing the translations would help? --[[User:PseudoChron|PseudoChron]] 04:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

== Palindromic pangram ==

Unless most people blatantly disagree, I urge you not to revert the previous edit of this page.  The palindromic pangram, though perhaps a palindrome and a pangram, is not a collection of sentences, but word salad, and isn't really worth mentioning.

<i>- * Oh, wet Alex, a jar, a fag! Up, disk, curve by! Man Oz, Iraq, Arizona, my Bev? Ruck's id-pug, a far Ajax, elate? Who? (77 letters) (also a [[palindrome]])</i>

Ok, this is a struggle, but I'll try to interpret it: "Hey Alex - you're wet by the way - there's a jar and a fag. Hey, frisbee, get up and fly past in a curve. Hey my Beverley, get troops into Australia, Iraq and Arizona. ?????????? Who?". Can't make much sense of "Ruck's id-pug". [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 16:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

== Adding examples in Ukrainian ==

The pangrams listed lacks Ukrainian, I've added a couple, both in all letters from Ukrainian alphabet.
--[[User:Jz99|Jz99]] 11:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

== Self-enumerating pangrams ==

Why was the entire ''Self-enumerating pangrams'' section deleted (by someone at 24.6.163.95)? If there are no objections, I would like to reinstate it. -- [[User:Spire42|Spire42]] 06:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

______________

More links and information about Sallowsgrams:

http://stason.org/TULARC/self-growth/puzzles/265-language-english-self-ref-self-ref-letters-p.html

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/books/hofstadter-GEB-FAQ/ (under "pangrams")

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/tanaka/GEB/pangram.txt -- randomized Robisonizing (by Letaw)

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/tanaka/GEB/
self-doc pangrams (Sallowsgram in Jp) (in Chinese) (in Turkish) (in German) (in Danish)   

I've never edited a Wikipedia entry, so maybe someone can add the above info. ([[User:HeHann|HeHann]] ([[User talk:HeHann|talk]]) 22:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC))

== Pangrams from restricted sets ==

In my opinion, this section does not belong here. In the beginning of the article it says "A pangram [...] is a sentence which uses every letter of the alphabet at least once." "CO, DY, EI, JQ, LG, MU, NA, RK, SH, TP, VF, XB, ZW" is hardly a sentence. --[[User:Darkday|Darkday]] 13:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

:There is no bright line test for when a related topic is too remotely related to be included in a Wikipedia article.  The world seems to be evenly divided between "splitters" who prefer many small tightly related articles and "groupers" who prefer longer loosely related articles.  Pragmatists such as myself take no sides in this debate, as long as information is not discarded.  I'll repeat the Wikipedia credo: if you want something done, do it yourself.  In this case, if you think this information should be in a separate article, make it so. [[User:Canon|Canon]] 14:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

== Removing the pangrams that aren't ==

There was no y in this nearly-pangram, so I removed it
* Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. (29 letters)

:There appears to be a y after the m in "my." [[User:Canon|Canon]] 23:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
:The is is no "F"... unless "ph" counts as an "F"  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.150.128.93|62.150.128.93]] ([[User talk:62.150.128.93|talk]]) 12:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::How about the "f" in "of"? --[[User:Darkday|Darkday]] ([[User talk:Darkday|talk]]) 01:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

== Bobby Lapointe ==

What reference indicates that Bobby Lapointe created this pangram? [[User:Canon|Canon]] 19:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

== Hitchhiker's Guide pangram ==

:"Zilf'd byshr Tanmwp, Vocx Jecklqug. (from the Hitchhiker's Guide)"

Where in the Hitchhiker's Guide does this appear?  I don't remember it.--[[User:4.236.12.9|4.236.12.9]] 23:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

== Portuguese pangram ==

:In the Portuguese section, I changed back “Brazilian Portuguese” to “Portuguese” since the policy in Wikipedia is to consider all the versions of Portuguese spoken in 8 different countries as the same language.
:If the sentence “Um pequeno jabuti xereta viu dez cegonhas felizes.” seems odd to a speaker of Portuguese from Portugal, it's not because the word “jabuti” does not exist in Portuguese vocabulary, it's because the little animal (jabuti) is native to South America, and not Europe.
:Besides, when I made up the sentence “Luís argüia à Júlia que «brações, fé, chá, óxido, pôr, zângão» eram palavras do português.”, the first version was “Luís diz à Júlia que «ânimo, brações, fé, chá, óxido, pôr» são palavras do português.”. But someone pointed me out that that sentence was not a perfect pangram for Brazilian Portuguese since it lacked the letter “ü”. So, I changed the sentence to fit both European and Brazilian Portuguese (non-brazilian Portuguese speakers can always write the same sentence with “u” instead of “ü”).
C. A. Duarte
[[User:82.154.222.44|82.154.222.44]] 13:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

== Translations ==

Despite what [[User:Rednaxela|Rednaxela]]'s imagination led him to believe, '''crapaüter''' does not mean '''doing the nasty'''; rather, it is an alternative (phonetical) spelling of '''crapahuter''', which is French military jargon for walking in rough terrain ([[trekking]], [[yomp|yomping]], [[TAB|tabbing]]).  Perhaps some of the other translations need attention from native speakers as well?  [[User:Des@des.no|DES]] 15:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

== French non-pangram ==

''Le cœur déçu mais l'âme plutôt naïve, Louÿs rêva de crapaüter en canoë au delà des îles, près du mälström où brûlent les novæ.''

Though it is beautiful and poetic, this does not contain the letter '[[z]]', which is part of the French alphabet, and so I will remove it. − [[User:Twas Now|'''Twas ''Now''''']] <small>( [[User talk:Twas Now|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Twas Now|contribs]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Twas Now|e-mail]] )</small> 10:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

== Censoring Pangrams ==

What is the basis for allowable pangrams? 
Why is "Tax whore's cute quim loved bags of monkey jizz" considered vandalism? When the clearly nonsensical, bad english "Brick quiz whangs jumpy veldt fox." is allowed? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/64.236.216.23|64.236.216.23]] ([[User talk:64.236.216.23|talk]]) 15:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:The basis (in the case of your example) is [[WP:PROFANITY]]--[[User:CIreland|CIreland]] 15:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
::... and it lacked the letter ''"p"'. ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] [[User talk:Sluzzelin|<small>talk</small>]] 15:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


Fair point. But it's much better than a lot of the other examples.
:While testing the limits of civility is a common indulgence of adolescence, perhaps an encyclopedia is a poor place for such activity.  [[User:Canon|Canon]] 14:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

== United States Representatives' initials ==

This section seems to contradict itself. It gives the reason you need to use former members as there is no Q, then it says to limit it to one former representative you need to use Don Young.  It seems from the text here that Jack Quinn is necessary for Q and Dan Young is necessary to make it a perfect pangram.  I am going to change it to reflect this.--[[User:Shadowdrak|Shadowdrak]] 06:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

== Portuguese pangram ==

Desde quando "blitz" é uma palavra portuguesa ?! / Since when is "blitz" a Portuguese word ?!
Frederico Manuel Basílio
[[User:213.58.152.212|213.58.152.212]] 17:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

In view of the fact that, not surprisingly, no answer as been provided, I will be removing the corresponding "pangram" in a near future when I implement an improving to the article that I am preparing. -- Frederico Manuel Basílio [[User:213.58.152.212|213.58.152.212]] 16:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

== Merge ==

I am in support of the merger. <span style="border: #GGGGGG solid 16px; background: #a40701; padding: 3px; margin-right: .5em;">[[User talk:Brandonrush|<span style="color:#000000;"><b><tt>>-{&nbsp;Brandonrush&nbsp;}-<</tt></b></span>]]</span>

I also think the merger makes sense. [[User:Canon|Canon]] 01:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but the entry "The quick brown fox ..." should be maintained and linked to "pangram", librerista, 7 August 2007

: There is enough substantial material in "the quick brown fox..." to warrant a separate article.  [[Special:Contributions/208.203.4.140|208.203.4.140]] ([[User talk:208.203.4.140|talk]]) 18:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:The quick brown fox has enough usage outside being a pangram, that I think it should remain its own article. [[User:The Equilibrium|The Equilibrium]] ([[User talk:The Equilibrium|talk]]) 05:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

:I don't believe in merging the two articles, first mostly because '''The quick brown fox''' pangram is pretty famous and well-known in around the english world, and there is enough information about it to make it its own article.

::—— <span class="nounderlinelink">[[User:The Unknown Hitchhiker|
<span style="color:#67d4e9">'''T'''</span><span style="color:#62cade">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#5ec1d4">'''e'''</span> <span style="color:#54adbf">'''U'''</span><span style="color:#50a4b4">'''n'''</span><span style="color:#4b9aa9">'''k'''</span><span style="color:#46919f">'''n'''</span><span style="color:#428794">'''o'''</span><span style="color:#3d7d8a">'''w'''</span><span style="color:#38747f">'''n'''</span> <span style="color:#2f606a">'''H'''</span><span style="color:#2a575f">'''i'''</span><span style="color:#254d55">'''t'''</span><span style="color:#21434a">'''c'''</span><span style="color:#1c3a40">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#173035">'''h'''</span><span style="color:#13272a">'''i'''</span><span style="color:#0e1d20">'''k'''</span><span style="color:#091315">'''e'''</span><span style="color:#050a0b">'''r'''</span>]]</span> 14:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

== Odd example ==

Listed as an example of a perfect pangram in the article:

Quack: "XL VD zit grew of nymph's BJ" (A false doctor attributes large genital wart to oral sex performed by a nymph.)

Admittedly, I laughed. But, does such a contrived and unnecessarily offensive example belong in Wikipedia only for the sake of thoroughness? Removed. Please give an argument for its staying if you put it back. [[User:James Lednik|James Lednik]] 03:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Two arguments:
#By their very nature, all pangrams are conrived
#Issues pertaining to human sexuality, including [[oral sex]] and [[venereal disease]] are certainly covered by Wikepedia. Most people whose POV is based on reason generally would not consider sexual themes to be ''ipso fact'' offensive; on the other hand I acknowledge that most religious fundamentalists would. In fact most religious fundamentalists would be deeply offended of Wikipedia in general :) [[User:Rastapopoulos|Rastapopoulos]] 09:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

== Perfect pangram - [[Cwm]] fjordbank glyphs vext quiz? ==

Found at http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question35564.html . It supposedly means that an expert is puzzled by strange symbols in a hollow next to a fjord.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:KosherJava|KosherJava]] ([[User talk:KosherJava|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/KosherJava|contribs]]) 23:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Greek non-Pangram ==

Regarding the greek “pangram”:

Γαζίες καὶ μυρτιὲς δὲν θὰ βρῶ πιὰ στὸ χρυσαφὶ ξέφωτο

This lacks eta, lambda, nu, and psi. Since it's also the only pangram in this list which lacks a final period, I can't help but wonder if whoever added it perhaps left off a few words. Unfortunately, I don’t speak Greek, so I can't suggest a continuation.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.145.129.108|68.145.129.108]] ([[User talk:68.145.129.108|talk]]) 16:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Phonetic pangram? ==

Is there a name for an English sentence, which when written in [[International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA]], use all the phonemes found in [[Wikipedia:IPA for English|English]]? Phonetic pangram? Are there any examples of English phonetic pangrams?

i.e. it should use both voiced and unvoiced "th" sounds (as in "thy" and "thigh"). It can be an alphabetic (normal) pangram too, but this isn't required. And it may require a particular regional spoken dialect to get all sounds. —[[User:Pengo|Pengo]] 00:08, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
== hijinx ==

The short english pangram example uses the uncommon spelling/variant of the word "hijinks". To remedy this, I suggest we change the sentence from:
"Quick hijinx swiftly revamped gazebo" to
"Hi, quickly revamp jinxed swift gazebo"
It is shorter by one letter and doesn't resort to very obscure spellings  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/108.66.129.231|108.66.129.231]] ([[User talk:108.66.129.231|talk]]) 07:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Culling examples ==

There used to be way way way too many examples of pangrams in various languages in this article, especially given their place in the lede section.  I expect it's the usual phenomenon that examples or translations in different languages grow like weeds once one of them is introduced, 'cause everyone can add their own.  Given that we have a dedicated second article, [[List of pangrams]], for such things, I've moved the examples there and purged from this article all the ones except those referred to later, removed the list structure, and put a prominent link to [[List of pangrams]] in.  Hopefully that'll keep things in check.  [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 17:22, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

==Examples of Pangrams==
Formerly there were many pangrams in different languages included in this article which were purged by {{u|4pq1injbok}} in February 2014 on the grounds that the list of examples was too big and there was, at that time, a separate [[List of pangrams]] article (since deleted by {{u|Joe Decker}}). I think it would be useful to have such a list in this article again - but (to keep things from getting out of hand) with the conditions that this list should be limited to one example per language, and that each example must have a properly referenced source. Perhaps the best known pangram in each language that makes sense would be appropriate for such a list?<br>     
[[User:Cfynn|Cfynn]] ([[User talk:Cfynn|talk]]) 11:23, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
:I don't have strong opinions, except that expansion of lists over time seems to be a law of nature, so someone would need to patrol the list and maintain whatever conditions were imposed on it, which I don't wanna, myself.
:If you'd asked me to come up with conditions I might've suggested restricting to pangrams that have had some (sourceable) ''use'', like the Russian ''В чащах юга жил бы цитрус? Да, но фальшивый экземпляр!'' which they used for telegraph testing, or the Javanese ''hana caraka, data sawala, padha jayanya, maga bathanga'' which has become their principal alphabet order. [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 14:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
::I think that [[User:Cfynn|Cfynn]] has it just right.  I found the several lists of pangrams quite useful before they were deleted.  I vote for restoring at least some of these pangrams with the restraints stated by Cfynn.--[[User:Foobarnix|Foobarnix]] ([[User talk:Foobarnix|talk]]) 23:59, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
:::PLEASE bring back the list of pangrams. I found it really useful.  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/219.78.164.90|219.78.164.90]] ([[User talk:219.78.164.90|talk]]) 13:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::: '''Agreed''', the list(s) should come back.  Or, at least, more examples than now given.
:::: Here's one:  ''"The five boxing wizards jump quickly."'' (Used by ScholarOne to demo available fonts.)
:::: —DIV ([[Special:Contributions/137.111.13.4|137.111.13.4]] ([[User talk:137.111.13.4|talk]]) 00:48, 7 August 2015 (UTC))

== Perfect Pangram ==

Would it be better to use an example like "Mr Jock, TV quiz PhD, bags few lynx" for the perfect anagram rather than the mouthful that is "Cwm fjord bank glyphs vext quiz"?

[[User:PinothyJ|PinothyJ]] ([[User talk:PinothyJ|talk]]) 02:26, 10 October 2016 (UTC)…
: It does seem to be perfect; never seen that one before. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 10:58, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
::I have added it, with the proviso that it includes abbreviations (TV, PhD), which disqualifies it in some eyes. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 16:14, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

== Victor jagt zwölf Boxkämpfer quer über den großen Sylter Deich ==

What does that mean in English? Something about "Victor hunts twelve large animals"? [[User:Anonymuss User|Anonymuss User]] ([[User talk:Anonymuss User|talk]]) 14:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz ==

This sentence has 32 letters, and is used by some operating systems to demonstrate fonts, much like the more well-known "Quick brown fox" one. [[Special:Contributions/75.112.52.7|75.112.52.7]] ([[User talk:75.112.52.7|talk]]) 17:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

== errors ==
It's interesting how often people edit this article by removing one of the pangrams saying that it doesn't have some particular letter when it does have that letter. (It just happened again this morning.) It says something about humans' inability to concentrate, or something like that. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 10:56, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

== Perfect pangram? (with one abbreviation) ==
Quartz glyph: vend jocks, fix BMW

This means that there is a glyph on quartz (in some location), and advertises that it can sell jocks and fix BMW's.
I think that this uses far less abbreviations than the Mr Jock example and is much less confusing than the fjord one.
[[User:(11Z2)|(11Z2)]] ([[User talk:(11Z2)|talk]]) 16:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

== "jumped" ==

Many people misquote "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" as "the quick brown fox ''jumped'' over the lazy dog," and since "jumps" contains its only 's,' the misquotation ends up being incorrect. Should we mention this?  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:85:C200:A200:2C28:AC1D:1B1:1AE7|2601:85:C200:A200:2C28:AC1D:1B1:1AE7]] ([[User talk:2601:85:C200:A200:2C28:AC1D:1B1:1AE7#top|talk]]) 22:38, 30 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Phonetic pangram ==
Editor [[User:Md84419]] has added four pangrams that claim to use all the phonemes of English. Since this topic is much more obscure than letters in the alphabet, it needs a reference and some context - e.g., how many phonemes does English have? American vs. British vs. others? How common are such pangrams? - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 11:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
: Still no reference two weeks later. A quick google search finds lots of blog posts but no serious source that these sentences do what is claimed. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 12:11, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
:: The general topic of phonemes is well covered in this Wikipedia article<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme</ref>. Wikipedia (and Wiktionary) itself uses the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) to indicate the phonetic pronunciation of words<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA</ref>, as do most of the popular Engish dictionaries <ref>https://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/ipa-english.htm</ref>.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Md84419|Md84419]] ([[User talk:Md84419#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Md84419|contribs]]) 11:36, 30 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:: Most phonology textbooks and sources claim that US-English is comprised of 44 phonemes and British English is also comprised of 44 phonemes. The /x/ phoneme from loch, Bach which is used in some Scottish-, Welsh- and foreign-origin words is sometimes included, creating 45. <ref>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321151067_How_Many_Phonemes_Does_the_English_Language_Have#:~:text=Most%20phonology%20textbooks%20claim%20that,semivowels)%20and%2020%20are%20vowels.</ref><ref>https://www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/44-phonemes-in-english.html</ref><ref>https://www.londonschool.com/blog/phonetic-alphabet/</ref>
:: The phoneme pangrams not part of English culture in the same way that "The quick brown fox..." is, but they are taught in school phonetics lessons and are well-known in the linguistics community.  A quick google search reveals almost 10,000 hits for the "With tenure..." pangram, almost 8,000 for "...Eurasian footwear..." and just over 8,000 for "The beige hue...".  The pangrams can be found in literature including <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9jt2DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT130&dq=%22The+beige+hue+on+the+waters+of+the+loch+impressed+all,+including+the+French+queen,+before+she+heard+that+symphony+again,+just+as+young+Arthur+wanted.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQmsKs0sLrAhWNN8AKHRvbB04Q6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=%22The%20beige%20hue%20on%20the%20waters%20of%20the%20loch%20impressed%20all%2C%20including%20the%20French%20queen%2C%20before%20she%20heard%20that%20symphony%20again%2C%20just%20as%20young%20Arthur%20wanted.%22&f=false</ref> and are part of the Read Write Inc. programme <ref>https://www.ruthmiskin.com/en/programmes/phonics/</ref> published by Oxford Univeristy Press and taught in the majority of UK schools.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Md84419|Md84419]] ([[User talk:Md84419#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Md84419|contribs]]) 10:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::I can accept that those three have some evidence to back them up. However, the last is, by definition, not a pangram as it is two sentences. A cursory search for "That quick beige fox jumped in the air over" yielded less than 200 results. This example should be removed.--[[User:Itspatri|Itspatri]] ([[User talk:Itspatri|talk]]) 16:51, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== No "z" ==

Lee Sallows' quote under self-enumerating pangram lacks a "z". It's cool, but it's not a pangram. That isn't made clear and is a bit misleading. [[User:JustSomeKid|JustSomeKid]]

There is a Z, at the end, when the sentence claims that it has one Z. [[Special:Contributions/50.232.137.26|50.232.137.26]] ([[User talk:50.232.137.26|talk]]) 16:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

== Pangram ==

This is a new pangram.The sentence is gramatically correct.And the sentence makes sense.  "Quick frowzy vamps jog the blind ox." ' frowzy' means badly dressed. 'vamps' means flirty women. 'jog' is a transitive verb meaning to push slightly with the hand. Thanks 

Best Regards,
SUNGELEE PARAMAH. [[User:Sungelee paramah|Sungelee paramah]] ([[User talk:Sungelee paramah|talk]]) 04:04, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

== "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow." ==
It's an interesting psychological experiment that a few times over the years, people have removed "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow." saying that it doesn't have an "f" - just happened again. They blip right over the the word "of". I'm sure linguistics and/or psychology people have an explanation. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 11:38, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

== Phonetic Pangrams are not accurate ==

The phonetic pangrams given are not pangrams. e.g. the first and third example do not include the /ai/ phoneme ('PRICE' words). Are there some better examples that actually include all phonemes?
:I have removed this section. Do not readd without proper citations for each.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

== Pangram that is the definition of a pangram ==

The following is a pangrammatic definition of a pangram:

A pangram is quickly jotted text with every letter of the alphabet squeezed into it.


[[User:Brandenads|Brandenads]] ([[User talk:Brandenads|talk]]) 04:13, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

:It seems like this is one that you came up with, so I don't think it passes [[WP:OR]]. [[User:Edderiofer|Edderiofer]] ([[User talk:Edderiofer|talk]]) 10:08, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I did make up that pangram. I wanted to see if editors would appreciate it, but since I made it up, it appears to be against the original research policy and I will not try to tie it into the article.

== Pangram source citations ==

I added source citations to the pangram examples mentioned in the article. I made sure the references were 1.) To notable books by respected authors/publishers that provide a discussion on the subject of pangrams that is much more indepth and comprehensive than a small intro paragraph and long list of random pangrams, or 2.) Historical references, that shed some light on the age, usage, and/or authorship of the pangram. Since there are hundreds of pangrams in circulation, I think these citations can keep the list of pangrams more "valuable" and in control of the length of the list.  [[User:Brandenads|Brandenads]] ([[User talk:Brandenads|talk]]) 07:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

== Big bird's English pangram ==

Big Bird pronounces the [[English alphabet]] as if it were a word {{IPAc-en|æ|b|k|ə|d|ɛ|f|ɡ|i:|dʒ|ɛ|k|ə|l|m|ɪ|n|ɒ|p|k|w|ər|ˈ|s|t|u:|v|w|ɪ|k|s|ɪ|z}}.  Though unofficial, I believe it is perfect pangram, in the sense that it would be if it were a word.  As is already well explained, one cannot get perfect pangrams in English without bending the rules.  Moreover, I think it helps the reader understand the preceding topic of perfect pangrams in Javanese, which I was unaware of until I read the article. I scratched my head for a while and then understood that the verb "order" meant "arrange in order, in the way Big Bird tried to do with the English alphabet.[[User:CharlesHBennett|CharlesHBennett]] ([[User talk:CharlesHBennett|talk]]) 11:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:{{tq|Though unofficial, I believe it is perfect pangram, in the sense that it would be if it were a word.}}
:But "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" isn't a word, so this isn't a pangram. The fact that Big Bird attempted to pronounce it as a word isn't notable enough to be included.
:{{tq|I scratched my head for a while and then understood that the verb "order" meant "arrange in order, in the way Big Bird tried to do with the English alphabet.}}
:Then the previous sentence should be edited for clarity, instead of adding a clearly-debatable entry to the article that doesn't actually clarify the wording. [[User:Edderiofer|Edderiofer]] ([[User talk:Edderiofer|talk]]) 15:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

As you say it is debatable, so let us debate it. I think more readers are familiar with Big Bird than perfect pangrams or Javanese script, and that my version therefore improves the article by using an example many people are familiar with to explain something that they are unfamiliar with but would be interested to know, namely that there are some languages in which sequences like abcd...yz are used as a name for the alphabet or syllabary. If I have not persuaded you, let us solicit additional opinions. [[User:CharlesHBennett|CharlesHBennett]] ([[User talk:CharlesHBennett|talk]]) 02:12, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:I don't think you've actually understood what a perfect pangram is. I can't speak for Javanese, but [[Iroha]] consists of coherent sentences that make actual sense. Pronouncing "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" as if it were a word isn't even a pangram because it doesn't mean anything. "Mr. Jock, TV quiz PhD, bags few lynx" is said to be a perfect pangram in English, and it at least makes sense.
:"order its letters in sequence" is not at all "in the way Big Bird tried to do with the English alphabet". Dictionaries don't start with A and end with Z because Big Bird said "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz". [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 03:00, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Is there a technical term for a conventional ordering of an alphabet versus the alphabet viewed as an unordered set?  The imbalance between consonants and vowels in the English alphabet makes it hard for a perfect pangram to make sense much less for it to be poetic as the Iroha is. That makes me wonder if there are any [[abjad]]s with meaningful or poetic pangrams, or pangrams used to conventionally order them. [[User:CharlesHBennett|CharlesHBennett]] ([[User talk:CharlesHBennett|talk]]) 12:25, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

:I don't think so, so let me coin one: "Vocabularic Order" versus "Phonetic Order". (''Vocabularic'' because the letters were originally ordered in the way they are because, as in Greek and Phoenician, each letter was actually a different word; Latin just later shortened it. Zed, though, is the last remaining one – it was originally ''zeta'' in Greek, itself originally ''zayin'' in Phoenician, which means ''sword'' in English.)  [[User:RichardMcKee|RichardMcKee]] ([[User talk:RichardMcKee|talk]]) 02:05, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

== Mr. Jock, TV quiz PhD, bags few lynx. ==

Mr. Jock, TV quiz PhD, bags few lynx. [[Special:Contributions/49.196.34.227|49.196.34.227]] ([[User talk:49.196.34.227|talk]]) 21:50, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

:Yes, this one is mentioned in [[Pangram#Perfect pangrams]]. [[User:Belbury|Belbury]] ([[User talk:Belbury|talk]]) 08:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

== External site with the deleted list of pangrams ==

Wikipedia used to have an article listing pangrams in many languages that I used to find very useful (entitled: [[List of pangrams]]), which was deleted in part due to many of the programs being original. I have been alerted of the list having been saved [https://clagnut.com/blog/2380 in this blog entry] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20230213135811/https://clagnut.com/blog/2380/ archive.org link]). ---- [[User:Ser be etre shi|Ser be etre shi]] ([[User talk:Ser be etre shi|talk]]) 14:38, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== Portuguese and k, w, and y ==

Since the adoption of the [[Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990]], the letters k, y, and w are considered part of the Portuguese alphabet (at least for "official language" purposes). In that case, is the remark about the use of loan words for Portuguese pangrams still correct? [[Special:Contributions/174.112.98.128|174.112.98.128]] ([[User talk:174.112.98.128|talk]]) 22:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

== German error for letter Y ==

It says "The letter y is limited to loanwords and proper names like Sylt." but this isn't true. There are German words that contain the letter y but aren't loanwords or proper names like, Physik, Psychologie, Synchron, or Rhythmus to list a few. [[Special:Contributions/141.72.157.109|141.72.157.109]] ([[User talk:141.72.157.109|talk]]) 10:04, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

== Refer to a methodical search for all perfect pangrams. ==

Methodical (programmatic) [https://medium.com/@FallingForFallacies/all-perfect-pangrams-of-english-8c8d0f621bee Search for all English perfect pangrams.] [[User:Boldklub-PJs|Boldklub-PJs]] ([[User talk:Boldklub-PJs|talk]]) 22:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

== Original research in a paragraph ==

I have added that [[Pangram#Pangrams in literature|a paragraph about a very long Wikipedia title being a pangram]] could be original research, as it is only cited to an on-site database dump, and is not mentioned on the title's article itself. [[User:Xeroctic|Xeroctic]] ([[User talk:Xeroctic|talk]]) 19:23, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

== The translation for the perfect english pangram is wrong (at least, it is very context specific) ==

There is nothing in the sentence to say that the glyphs are petrographic (they could very well be about the cwm fjord bank, or be written on parchment, wood, or any other material - change the preposition in my sentence to fit). The sentence is not about a quiz (as in, a test) about the cwm fjord bank (who says it's on archeology, even), nor is the correct usage of "vext" to challenge validity. Also, the elaboration still uses most of the unfamiliar words of the sentence (Nordic fjord means nothing if you do not know what a fjord is, and cwm is just raw.)

I've changed it to something that actually makes sense: "the symbols in the bowl-like depression on the edge of a long steep sea inlet confuse an eccentric person". [[Special:Contributions/142.109.127.38|142.109.127.38]] ([[User talk:142.109.127.38|talk]]) 00:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

:Which word is the eccentric person? I don't see it. And what do you think "quiz" means? - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 01:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
::That's your answer; ''[[:wikt:quiz#Noun|quiz]]'' is an archaic term for an eccentric person. [[User:Belbury|Belbury]] ([[User talk:Belbury|talk]]) 09:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

:::Aha - let's explain it in the article. - [[User:DavidWBrooks|DavidWBrooks]] ([[User talk:DavidWBrooks|talk]]) 22:48, 3 March 2024 (UTC)