View source for Talk:Thomas Edison/Archive 4

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== Edison record company ==

The organ in the photograph may be the organ which was built for edisons recording studio by Midmer Losh, who were the builders of the worlds largest pipe organ in atlantic city boardwalk hall.
The recording studio organ was a smal extended organ with 3 manuals.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.145.242.81|81.145.242.81]] ([[User talk:81.145.242.81|talk]]) 11:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The photo of the reconstruction of Edison's Menlo Park lab at the Greenfield Village Museum in Michigan contains some original artifacts and some reconstructed items, with no clear distinction apparent to the viewer. The original lab had an organ donated by Hilbourne Roosevelt, organ builder, per  p 89 of Neil Baldwin's book "Edison: Inventing the century." Matthew Josephson's book "Edison: A biography" (paperback edition, McGraw Hill, 1959)says (p216) that Hilbourne Roosevelt donated the organ in 1878. Robert Conot, in "A streak of luck" says (p110) that Hilbourne Roosevelt was an investor in the Bell company and also in Edison's phonograph company, and that in January (1878, presumably) he sent Edison an organ for phonograph experiments. Francis Jehl who was present in the Menlo Park lab starting in 1879 says in "Menlo Park Reminiscences (Vol 1)" on page 137 that the organ was used in telephone experiments. On page 136, Jehl describes the one at Greenfield Village (shown in the illustration in this Wikipedia article) as a "faithful replica" of the original one. On page 138 Jehl says the replica was "faithfully reproduced by a builder who as a boy worked in the shop where the original was made." The replica would have been likely built just before the opening of Greenfield Village in 1929. Does that description fit the person you mentioned? Midmer-Losh is likely a company, not a person. This seems too peripheral to add to the article, in any event[[User:Edison|Edison]] 20:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

== Suggest a change to ---Electric Light--- and ---Electric Power Distribution--- sections ==

Suggestion: There is no mention of [[Spencer Trask]] and other key financial backers who were essentially Edison's venture backers. Are the financiers who ARE mentioned documented? I'm doing lots of research on Spencer Trask and I haven't come across their names as Edison's primary backers. (btw, I'm not a historian so I may very well not know something quite well-known. I'm just very surprised that Spencer Trask is so unknown these days. I'll be happy to share documents to help clear this up.

Here's my suggested edit that would begin in the second paragraph of ---Electric Light---

Edison’s vision required commercial production of the incandescent lamp and, critically, a new system for generating and distributing electricity for light, heat, and power. Since Mr. Edison was not able to carry the financial burden of all the necessary experiments and developments by himself, several prominent financiers including [[Spencer Trask]], Egisto P. Fabbri, Charles H. Coster, J. Hood Wright, [[Henry Villard]], and a few others, who had been backing Edison financially in his experiments, formed the [[Edison Electric Light Company]] in New York on October 15, 1878.<ref>p. 12 “Spencer Trask & Company”, The New York Public Library 83495B, Copyright 1941</ref>

Edison was finally able to produce and perfect an incandescent lamp for commercial use and suitable for a system of general multiple distribution on October 21, 1879. He made the first public demonstration of his incandescent light bulb on December 31, 1879, in Menlo Park. It was during this time that he said, "We will make electricity so cheap that only the rich will burn candles."

The Edison Electric Light Company obtained a license that empowered it to operate in two districts within New York. The First District covered a square mile downtown, including Wall Street. Within this district the company converted two old buildings on Pearl Street into a station. The first dynamo was started on July 5, 1882 and supplied a thousand lamps within the station itself. At 3:00 P. M. on September 4, 1882, Edison dramatically threw the switch in the Wall Street offices of Drexel, Morgan & Co. and thus in a split second of time started a system of distributing light, heat and power by electricity which has grown meantime to enormous proportions. On that day the company supplied 1284 lamps to 59 customers.<ref> p. 12 “Spencer Trask & Company”, The New York Public Library 83495B, Copyright 1941</ref>  

Thanks, Matt ([[User:Handlinoconnor|Handlinoconnor]] 00:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

Looks good.  Are the other investor's names listed in your cited reference?  Was J P Morgan's company then called Drexel, Morgan & Co.?  Wasn't J P Morgan an investor in Edison Electric Light Company or was he only a customer?  Or did Morgan's involvment come later?  At some point didn't Morgan take over Edison's electric companies and rename them General Electric?  Timelines can get tedious, but a short summary of the evolution of Edison's electric companies would be welcome.        
The following sentence needs work: "... converted into a station two old buildings on Pearl Street into a station." [[User:Greensburger|Greensburger]] 04:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'll do more research this week. I'll look for J.P. Morgan references. More to come...

([[User:Handlinoconnor|Handlinoconnor]] 01:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

== 'Influenced by' ==

Recently, an editor has been adding an 'influenced by' line in the infobox, containing [[Thomas Payne]] and [[Benjamin Franklin]].  I object to this on two counts: one is that listing a single, or even two, influences seems very low, and the second that these aren't cited.  Are there references to support this, and is this something reasonable to put in an infobox? [[User:Michaelbusch|Michaelbusch]] 05:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I do have a reference to Thomas Paine (not Thomas Payne). Should I add that? 
As for Benjamin Franklin I don't specifically have a reference at hand. Sorry if I screwed anything up too badly. I believe it should be added if I can also find who was influenced by Edison.  [[User:Afoxtrotn00ber123|Afoxtrotn00ber123]] 4:07 PM, 6 November 2007

== Paranormal Contributions ==

Should we put his paranormal contributions? Like EVP theories and his contact with Sigrun Seuterman '''in 1967''' , telling 740 Mega Hertz TV sets can be a medium. [[User:ALLmasked|ALLmasked]] ([[User talk:ALLmasked|talk]]) 03:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:What are the reliable sources which serve as references for these dubious claims? [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 02:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

== mis-spelling ==

The German who discovered x-rays should be spelled Röentgen, not Röntgen.
: I'm no expert on German but from what I remember from schooldays (waaaay back when) o-umlaut in lower case is generally spelled OE in upper case. It should be either Röntgen with an umlaut or Roentgen without. [[User:Pterre|Pterre]] ([[User talk:Pterre|talk]]) 00:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

== NPOV ==

This article is complete rubbish and has been constantly edited by some clown called "edison". It doesn't refer to the constant stealing which edison engaged in his entire life. It denigrates Tesla who was a real inventor not just a crooked thief. It's propaganda not real in any way and a perfect example of the weakness of wikipedia when some obsessive loser is allowed too much leeway.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.70.246.228|83.70.246.228]] ([[User talk:83.70.246.228|talk]]) 12:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== horizontal scroll ==

There is a link in the references that is causing a horizontal scrollbar to appear, but I can't edit the page due to the bullshit protection placed upon it. The URL can be shortened by removing the <code>lang</code> and <code>parID</code> parameters so that it simply reads
[http://www.sudburymuseums.ca/index.cfm?app=w_vmuseum&currID=2031 http://www.sudburymuseums.ca/index.cfm?app=w_vmuseum&currID=2031]
:[[Special:Contributions/129.15.131.246|129.15.131.246]] ([[User talk:129.15.131.246|talk]]) 01:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== A. ==

Is there a reason for not having a period after the "A" in the article's title? --[[User:Jnelson09|Jnelson09]] ([[User talk:Jnelson09|talk]]) 19:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

:It shouldn't have been moved from [[Thomas Edison]] to [[Thomas A Edison]] to begin with, so I've reverted that move. - [[User:AuburnPilot|<span style="color:#0000cd;">auburn</span><span style="color:#EF6521;">pilot</span>]] [[User_talk:AuburnPilot|<small>talk</small>]] 21:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

== "opponent to technological change" ==

removed this sentence because it is unreferenced and seems highly opinion based

"Edison was often an opponent to technological innovation and change, perhaps because they threatened his business model" [[User:Qc|Qc]] ([[User talk:Qc|talk]]) 13:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

My wifes grand
father's name was Jesse James Riker. He lived in the northern mountains of North New Jersey and was proud of his roots their. My father in law, Larry Riker, usually spun a good tale, and I always put it up to his good imagination till one day his sister Mary started chiming in about how some days Mr. Edison would put the, well I don't want to rerewwrite history.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.94.136.168|72.94.136.168]] ([[User talk:72.94.136.168|talk]]) 07:03, 24 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Don't understand how the above comment fits the discussion. [[Special:Contributions/161.77.184.2|161.77.184.2]] ([[User talk:161.77.184.2|talk]]) 15:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

== Thomas Edison's Bootlegger ==

My wifes grandfather's name was Jesse James Riker. He lived in the mountains of northern New Jersey and was proud of his roots there. As many folks did back then, he supplemented his income by making moonshine. My father in law, Larry Riker, usually spun a good tale, and I always put this story up to his good imagination.Then one day his sister Mary started chiming in about how Mr. Edison would come and buy his liquor from their dad. He would often stay the night and the two put away their fair share of bootleg. He would bounce them on his knee and tell them stories of his latest inventions. Somewhere in the family is a phonograph presented to Jesse as thank you for his business and friendship.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.94.136.168|72.94.136.168]] ([[User talk:72.94.136.168|talk]]) 00:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Thomas Edison and The Cooper Union ==

In the Thomas Edison wiki piece, under Early Life, the last sentence states, "Much of his education came from reading R.G. Parker's School of Natural Philosophy and The Cooper Union."

There are two factual elements to this:

First:
R.G. Parker's School of Natural Philosophy is actually titled, "School Compendium of Natural and Experimental Philosophy." The author was Richard Green Parker. 

Second:
The Cooper Union.


Discussion:
First:
Thomas Edison stated that he had read and performed every experiment in Parker's Natural and Experimental Philosophy. I don't have a reference for that but it is documented. It is important to use the correct title since it includes the word "Experimental," which gives the reader an inkling that in Edison's early education he'd been indoctrinated with the concepts of and habits of experimental science.  This offers a clue of where to continue research if one is interested in trying to uncover Edison's heavy emphasis on experiment-oriented research. 

I recommend this sentence be revised with the correct title.

Second:
The sentence seriously over-emphasizes the importance of The Cooper Union in Thomas Edison's path toward his life of achievement. Thomas Edison took one course in chemistry at The Cooper Union in about 1872, when Edison was 25 years old and working on the printing telegraph. If one googles: http://www.cooper.edu/engineering/chemechem/general/edison.html one will find Professor Robert Topper, a former chemistry professor at The Cooper Union, has a comprehensive statement of Thomas Edison's brief involvement with the The Cooper Union. During Edison's time, The Cooper Union was a free college.

If one reads Prof. Topper's comments, one finds that Edison had first gathered and read all the available chemistry books. Then he enrolled in a chemistry course at The Cooper Union. A broader study of Edison's work shows that this was his method of working: do a literature search and then seek out professionals who might have additional knowledge. This was a method of working that he'd developed long before he took his course at The Cooper Union. 

I respect The Cooper Union. However, it is inaccurate and misleading to students using Wikipedia to include The Cooper Union in a sentence that begins, "Much of his education came from ... "  

I recommend the sentence in question be divided into three sentences and that they read as follows:

Much of his childhood science education came from Richard Green Parker's, "A Compendium of Natural and Experimental Philosophy," at that time the most widely used science textbook in the U.S. (Science was called Natural Philosophy during that era.) Thomas Edison also took a chemistry course, at age 25, from The Cooper Union, a free college, when he was investigating how to improve the printing telegraph. 

(Cite: http://www.cooper.edu/engineering/chemechem/general/edison.html for the Cooper Union comment.)

[[User:L Jumper|L Jumper]] ([[User talk:L Jumper|talk]]) 18:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== How he got fired as a telegraph operator ==

I read in "Edison, Chemist" that he was fired because he made it so he wouldn't have to be present for the telegraph machine to work.  from page 17, "Tom rigged up a clock device to do this automatically, but the scheme was detected and he was discharged"  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/138.74.242.72|138.74.242.72]] ([[User talk:138.74.242.72|talk]]) 20:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

we could add a link to http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/arts/27soun.html?_r=4&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1206820763-Pl5f856kGZP+RJ0elCqOCQ  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.228.207.5|82.228.207.5]] ([[User talk:82.228.207.5|talk]]) 20:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Voice recordings older than that of Edison discovered... ==

Seventeen years older than Edison's recordings..

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7318180.stm  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7318180.stm]

[[Special:Contributions/98.16.32.152|98.16.32.152]] ([[User talk:98.16.32.152|talk]]) 13:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

:News from the Conference for follow-up

:[http://www.ttc.org/200803290552.m2t5qfj25257.htm  http://www.ttc.org/200803290552.m2t5qfj25257.htm]

:[[Special:Contributions/98.16.32.152|98.16.32.152]] ([[User talk:98.16.32.152|talk]]) 14:26, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

::The recording is available under the Creative Commons License here;
::[http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/ http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/]

::Other noteworthy sounds here include Edison's experiments via Charles Batchelor with the phonautograph.[[Special:Contributions/98.16.32.152|98.16.32.152]] ([[User talk:98.16.32.152|talk]]) 14:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hasa anyone claimed to make out more than pitch from the 1860 Claire de Lune phonautogram? I could not detect any consonants or vowel sounds. This would be consistent with a lack of high frequency response, allowing only perhaps the fundamental and first harmonic to be reproduced. Edison's first tinfoil phonograph by all reports allowed speech to be understood. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Can someone do something about this fanboy presenting the documented conman and thief known as edison as a "great man" and "inventor" when he was really just a crook.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/78.16.55.82|78.16.55.82]] ([[User talk:78.16.55.82|talk]]) 15:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== He was born in Sombrerete, Mexico ==

"Nació el 18 de febrero de 1848 en el pueblo de Sombrerete, Distrito del mismo nombre, perteneciente al Estado de Zacatecas de la República Mexicana, en donde hizo sus estudios primarios, trasladándose cuando era muy joven todavía a los E.E.U.U. en donde se estableció definitivamente y adquirió la nacionalidad norteamericana. En el nuevo país de su residencia primordialmente fue empleado de telégrafos. Perfeccionó un sistema para transmitir al mismo tiempo y por el mismo hilo hasta cuatro telegramas distintos. Con sus primeros ingresos serios montó el laboratorio de Newark, en Menlo Park . En 1876, produjo su teléfono de carbón, que mejoró mucho el de boca de Graham Bell . En 1877 descubrió el fonógrafo a base de un cilindro de cera recubierta de papel estaño, y causo tanta sensación que el público comenzó a llamarle “El mago de Menlo Park”. Más tarde inventó y perfeccionó el foco para producir la luz de incandescencia. En 1885 registró una patente de transmisión sin hilos de larga distancia. El número de sus inventos fue tan grande, que hubo de montar una biblioteca archivo y nombrar un abogado para atender las reclamaciones y litigios que pudieran presentarse. Viajó por Europa recibiendo honores y condecoraciones. En 1894 lanzó sus descubrimientos acerca del cinetoscopio y el cinematógrafo. En 1913 presentó las primeras películas cinematográficas combinando el film con el fonógrafo, precursores del que luego se llamó cine sonoro. Para 1928 su reputación era ya mundial, pues tenía 1033 patentes registradas y era inmensamente rico. El 18 de octubre de 1931 murió en Glemont, New Jersey, E.E.U.U."

'''Born on February 18 1848 in the village of Sombrerete, District of the same name, which belongs to the State of Zacatecas in Mexico, where they made their primary studies, moving when he was still very young to the USA Where definitively established and acquired American citizenship. The new country of residence was used primarily by telegraph. Perfeccionó a system to transmit simultaneously and in the same thread up to four different telegrams. With its first revenues serious mounted lab Newark, in Menlo Park. In 1876, he produced his phone coal, which greatly improved the mouth of Graham Bell. In 1877 he discovered the phonograph based on a wax cylinder tin coated paper, and caused so much sense that the public began to call him "The Wizard of Menlo Park". Later invented and perfected the focus to produce incandescent light. In 1885 registered a patent for wireless transmission long distance. The number of inventions was so great that there was mounting a library file and appoint an attorney to deal with complaints and disputes that may arise. He travelled to Europe to receive honors and decorations. In 1894 launched their discoveries about cinetoscopio and cinema. In 1913 introduced the first cinematographic films combining film with the phonograph, precursors which are then called talkies. In 1928 his reputation was already world since 1033 had registered patents and was immensely rich. On October 18, 1931 died in Glemont, New Jersey, USA'''

<ref>http://201.120.149.127/2006/11/19/estado1.htm</ref>
<ref>http://www.tae.edu.mx/primaria/informacion/tomas_alva_edison.htm</ref>

Im trying to add just a paragraph respecting his US birthplace, but just note to people about this. I'll try to get a picture into his homeplace in Sombrerete for reference and investigation.

Thanks  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Heblem|Heblem]] ([[User talk:Heblem|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Heblem|contribs]]) 21:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:He was born in Ohio, U.S. There are no reliable sources saying he as born in Mexico, and many saying he was born in Ohio. The Spanish language Wikipedia should be rid of this misinformation, which only casts that Wikipedia version in a bad light. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 21:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Looks Spanish WP has reacted and removed this nonsense again. Way to go Hispanics! :p -andy [[Special:Contributions/92.228.75.189|92.228.75.189]] ([[User talk:92.228.75.189|talk]]) 08:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, i'll try to give better facts information about his birthplace in Sombrerete, México, like monuments and stone gravels made by people of the place but unfortunately there are no census documents due it lost in the Mexican Revolution. Please consider my document into his biography, all information is true... -heblem  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Heblem|Heblem]] ([[User talk:Heblem|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Heblem|contribs]]) 21:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:He was born in Milan. Ohio, U.S. There may well have been someone called "Tomás Alva" born of Aztec parents in Mexico in 1848, but Edison's ancestry is very well documented. His great grandfather John Edesen (as the Dutch spelled the name) was on the British side in the American Revolution and moved to Nova Scotia in the 1780's. Muster rolls from the militia show he changed the spelling to Edison. His Grandfather, Samuel Ogden Edison, received a land grant in Ontario in 1811, and was a captain in British forces in the War of 1812. His father, Samuel Ogden Edison. Jr.,(not "Samuel Alva Ixtlixóchitl" as your second reference claims), moved to Milan, Ohio in 1837 where Thomas Alva Edison was born.  He visited his grandfather in Canada in 1852. This is from "A streak of luck" by Thomas Conot, pp 3-5. and "Edison-Inventing the century" by Neal Baldwin. The house in Milan Ohio where Thomas Edison was born February 11, 1847 still stands. Records show his mother, Nancy Elliott Edison, purchased the house in 1841. Samuel died in 1896 at the age of 92. You may assert here all you want the truth of your claim, but without better documentation is does not belong in the article. A marker someone put up (when?) is not proof. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 21:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

::I am removing the sentence in the article which says "according to some people" he was born in Mexico. This is not "rumorpedia." Better sourcing would be needed to contest the solid references which document the U.S. and Canadian origins. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 13:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

== Phonautograph ==

Hello everyone,

Perhaps something interresting : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7318180.stm
You might want to see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard-L%C3%A9on_Scott_de_Martinville wich is in some language but not in english...

Anyway it seems that Edison "stole" an other invention <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:81.252.16.155|81.252.16.155]] ([[User talk:81.252.16.155|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/81.252.16.155|contribs]]) </small><!-- {{unsigned|81.252.16.155}} -->11:28, 24 April 2008


:The phonautpograph was not intended to allow playback of the recorded sound, whereas Thomas Edison designed and built the first device which could record and playback sound.  This the phonograph was not "stolen. All inventions have predecessor inventions. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 18:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

== Minor citation error? ==

[[Thomas_Edison#Carbon_telephone_transmitter]] has what appears to be a minor citation error. Is this intentional or just a simple error? --[[Special:Contributions/64.5.15.136|64.5.15.136]] ([[User talk:64.5.15.136|talk]]) 18:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, and while I'm nitpicking, the second paragraph of [[Thomas_Edison#Menlo_Park]] starts with a redlink that should point to [[William J. Hammer]] or at least be redirected. --[[Special:Contributions/64.5.15.136|64.5.15.136]] ([[User talk:64.5.15.136|talk]]) 21:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
::I amended the link just now. Thank you for mentioning these points, though I have not done anything with the style of the citation. [[User:The Baroness of Morden|The Baroness of Morden]] ([[User talk:The Baroness of Morden|talk]]) 21:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:::It is quite intentional, and done as a result of not having found a way of repeatedly citing the same book with different page numbers. How should the citation be done? The book cited is identified previously by an inline cite with the complete information and the short form '''<nowiki><ref name=Josephson>"Edison" by Matthew Josephson. McGraw Hill, New York, 1959, ISBN 0-07-033046-8</ref></nowiki> ''' and is the book in the reference list by Matthew Josephson. I could just repeat that raw inline cite, but it is helpful to give a page number along with the name of the book. There is one other cite to the name of the book and a page number which could use similar cleanup, but I would like a consensus as to the preferred form of citation where several cites to the same book are made, with different page numbers. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hm, makes sense. I was just curious as to why it wasn't done in the same way as other similar same-book cites. Of course, I've got almost no knowledge on citations (I just fix minor and a few major errors as I run across them when looking for school material), so I can't help you on that. --[[Special:Contributions/64.5.15.136|64.5.15.136]] ([[User talk:64.5.15.136|talk]]) 23:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::It would be easy to just cite to the book title without the page, but in the index of such a book, there may be 20 pages which show up under "telephone" or "electric light." Verifying the presence of the claimed reference is easier with a page number. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 01:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


== Nikola Tesla ==

Can i just ask why Tesla is not mentioned once in this entire article? Look through Tesla's article and count the number of times that Edison is mentioned. Read through it, and i think you'll agree that Tesla at least deserves some mention here. Thanks.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.142.19.142|86.142.19.142]] ([[User talk:86.142.19.142|talk]]) 20:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Try reading the article more carefully. Tesla's name appears 10 times in the article, and several more times in the references and external links. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


Sorry, you're completley right. My mistake. :)  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.140.203.33|86.140.203.33]] ([[User talk:86.140.203.33|talk]]) 09:56, 25 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Lightbulb ==

he did not invent the lightbulb <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.138.216.89|72.138.216.89]] ([[User talk:72.138.216.89|talk]]) 22:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:With you on that, the incandescent light bulb was invented by someone BRITISH (yay!) - [[Joseph Swan | Sir Joseph Swan]], 1878. Edison's patentinvolved improving his design. Should be noted. =D [[User:Paidgenius|Paidgenius]] ([[User talk:Paidgenius|talk]]) 09:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

:: He actually bought 3 patents from 6 different people an sold them to lord Joxie, and improved the design, 1 American, 1 British and 1 Canadian patent

::: Incandescent lightbulb invented by the Canadian [[Henry Woodward (inventor)|Henry Woodward]]. He later sold the patent to Edison  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.112.219.43|69.112.219.43]] ([[User talk:69.112.219.43|talk]]) 18:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::::Doesn't seem like he invented much of anything as far as a concept that no one had ever conceived of before. Even the phonograph wasn't an original concept. Interesting that he apparently had no compunction about cashing in on - (pron. "stealing") another's efforts - i.e. Flight To The Moon. Not quite the guy we hear about in the textbooks.[[User:TheDarkOneLives|TheDarkOneLives]] ([[User talk:TheDarkOneLives|talk]]) 22:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::::The persistence of envy and jealousy is amazing. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 02:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

== Patent stealing? ==

How come there is no mention of edisons patent trolling? He did 'steal' a lot of inventions  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.184.161.230|90.184.161.230]] ([[User talk:90.184.161.230|talk]]) 16:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Auto signed by SineBot-->
:How do you define "patent trolling?" There is discussion of priority of invention, prior work by others, and the collaborative nature of work in his lab. Find some [[WP:RS|reliable sources]], read what is already in the article, then feel free to improve the article based on the reliable sources. This is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 16:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::yes, it's true Edison "stole" many inventions and now there are many people who wonder why the true is not told. He's dead.

:[http://m4th.com/Articles/Article.php?Article-Title=9-Inventions-Edison-Did-Not-Make This is a start] but there are dozens of other more reliable sites and scholarly books that talk about this matter in further detail. If anyone really cares about Edison enough I'm sure they would have the motivation to present an article that is historically accurate and truthful, not one that leaves out large pieces of history.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/121.210.64.214|121.210.64.214]] ([[User talk:121.210.64.214|talk]]) 08:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::The personal wwebsite is inaccurate and unreferenced. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 16:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
{{Talk:Thomas Edison/GA1}}
Thomas Edison in fact got help from a black with the light bulb so he did invent it but with some help from someone.

== External link cleanup ==

Thumperward has tagged the "External links" section as not being in compliance with [[WP:EL]]. Many of the external links are fully in compliance with that guideline, which is summed up as "Adding external links to an article can be a service to the reader, but they should be kept to a minimum of those that are meritable, accessible and appropriate to the article." Some of the external links are to authoritative sources, such as the Edison Papers project at Rutgers Univesity, or include reliable sources which provide important information or insights into Edison's life and work, but which are too lengthy to include in this article, or are copyrighted.That said, I propose here that some of the exrternal links be removed for compliance with [[WP:EL]]. Having more external links does not necessarily improve an article, and each should be judged individually. Links I propose for removal:
* [http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bledisonpatents.htm Complete list of 1,093 patents]. This is a list of his patents, at About.com. It is less informative than the list of patents at the Rutgers University Edison Papers project, also linked under "Archives" as  [http://edison.rutgers.edu/patents.htm Rutgers: Edison Patents], which shoudl certainly be kept.
* [http://www.pinkyshow.org/archives/episodes/070117/ ''Thomas Edison Hates Cats''] - an online video about Thomas Edison and electricity. This is a "Pinkyshow" online video of an animated cat relating a rather POV  story of the "war of the currents" and add nothing of encyclopedic nature.
* [http://deadwoodelectrified1883.blogspot.com/ Historical Deadwood Newspaper accounts of Edison's 1880 placer and pulp sluicing process and electrifying Deadwood SD 1883 before the illumination of the White House 1891] This is someone's blog about the town of Deadwood telling how it got electric lights, but it does not distinguish between 2000 candlepower arclights, which had no relation to Edison,  and later incandescent lights. It is much more about the town of Deadwood than about Edison.
* "''[http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/hst/biography/Edison/toc.html Edison, His Life And Inventions]''" by ''Frank Lewis Dyer'' at Worldwideschool.org. This is a broken link to an early biography of Edison, and the same work is linked to farther down in Project Gutenberg.
* "''[http://www.thomasedison.com/ Thomas Edison]''," by ''Gerry Beales''. Apparently the personal website of Mr. Beals at Comcast.net, about Edison. Nice graphics, generally interesting to read, but lacks inline cites to show where the information came from. It includes "paraphrased and modernised quotations from Edisons." I object to paraphrasing or "modernising" someone's sayings.
* "''[http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/john_murphy/edison.html Thomas Alva Edison]''" by ''John Patrick Michael Murphy''.Seems to be another personal website with a one page biography of Edison, lacking references.
* [http://www.projectshum.org/Edison/ A short Thomas Edison biography] Another apparent personal webpage with an unreferenced one page biography of Edison.
* [[:s:The New Student's Reference Work/Edison, Thomas Alva|The New Student's Reference Work/Edison, Thomas Alva]] A short, unreferenced 1914 biography of Edison, something of an uncritical puff-piece. 
If there is no objection, I will delete these a week from now. The remaining links seem to comply with [[WP:EL]] but are certainly also open to discussion, as are the above. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

: The links to "Historic sites" should go if the sites themselves don't contain sufficient material to warrant inclusion as encyclopedic sources. This isn't a guidebook, and links to physical locations shouldn't be necessary (and indeed are fairly useless to readers outwith the locality). So that's another handful:
:* [http://www.tomedison.org/ Edison Birthplace Museum] (scant additional encylopedic material on the website)
:* [http://www.edison-ford-estate.com/ Thomas Edison Winter Estate] (dead link)
:* [http://www.nps.gov/edis/ Edison National Historic Site] (scant additional encylopedic material on the website)
:* [http://www.menloparkmuseum.com/ Menlo Park] (scant additional encylopedic material on the website)
:* [http://www.phmuseum.org/depot/depot.htm Edison Depot Museum] (scant additional encylopedic material on the website)
: We should keep:
:* "Menlo Park Reminiscences, Volume 1," by Francis Jehl, originally published by Edison Institute, Dearborn, Michigan, 1937. Reprinted by Dover Publications, Mineola, NY, 1990. {{ISBN|0-486-26357-6}} (evidently an encyclopedia source)
:* [http://www.historichomes.org/edisonhouse/lifeofedison.html Thomas Edison House] (considerable encyclopedic material on the website)
:* [http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/edison/ Edison exhibit and Menlo Park Laboratory at Henry Ford Museum] (considerable encyclopedic material on the website)
:* [http://www.edisonmuseum.org/ Edison Museum] (considerable encyclopedic material on the website)
: [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 07:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Edison, I agree with removing the ones you think should be removed. Chris, there are two which you think should be kept which I would remove. They are: [http://www.historichomes.org/edisonhouse/lifeofedison.html Thomas Edison House] (I looked at this, and I don't think there is that much info on the site); and "Menlo Park Reminiscences, Volume 1," by Francis Jehl, originally published by Edison Institute, Dearborn, Michigan, 1937. Reprinted by Dover Publications, Mineola, NY, 1990. {{ISBN|0-486-26357-6}} (it may be encylopedic, but WP is not a bookstore). Also, I would delete additions sites which both of you did not recommend deleting: 
*[http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/search.php?query=edison&queryType=%40attr+1%3D1016 Edison cylinder recordings], from the [[Cylinder Preservation and Digitization Project]] at the [[University of California, Santa Barbara]] Library. (this seems to be things that are recorded on Edison records, which is a marginal relation to Edison himself)
* [http://www.kino.com/edison 4-disc DVD set containing over 140 films produced by the Thomas Edison Company]. (this looks like spam to me)
* {{imdb title|id=0956251|name=Thomas Edison}} - Animated biography DVD series, includes Thomas Edison (doesn't seem to be that useful/not a RS)
* [http://edison.rutgers.edu/patents.htm Rutgers: Edison Patents] (not needed, as the edison.rutgers.edu is linked right above it)
* [http://www.americaslibrary.gov/aa/edison/aa_edison_subj_e.html Thomas A. Edison in his laboratory in New Jersey, 1901] (this is just a picture, and not that worth linking to. we have pix of him in the article)
* [http://americanhistory.si.edu/archives/d8069.htm William J. Hammer collection] &mdash; c. 1874&ndash;1935, 1955&ndash;1957. Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. (this seems to list things, but doesn't actually include their text--not that useful)

Let me know waht you think about these suggestions. If no-one replies, I'll go ahead after a few days or so. [[User:Carl.bunderson|Carl.bunderson]] ([[User talk:Carl.bunderson|talk]]) 04:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

:Well no-one's replied, so I'm going ahead with it. [[User:Carl.bunderson|Carl.bunderson]] ([[User talk:Carl.bunderson|talk]]) 18:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)