View source for Template talk:Rough translation

{{tfd end|date=10 August 2016|merge=template:Cleanup translation|result=no consensus}}
==Mod to apply to sections? ==
Is there a way to adapt this template to refer to sections or will I have to use a different template? --[[User:Tedd-the-Tiger|Tedd-the-Tiger]] ([[User talk:Tedd-the-Tiger|talk]]) 12:24, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== French ==
Does anyone know what the French version of this template is called?  [[User:Sirkumsize|Sirkumsize]] 08:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

== Language ==

This needs to be rephrased. Right now, it's set up to say the same name of the language in English as what's listed under other languages. It should be changed to either output the name of the language as truly shown in the Other Languages box or to not say it the way it does now. For example, if something is a rough translation from German, the output is:
{{tl|RoughTranslation|German}}
[[User:Cookiecaper|Cookiecaper]] 00:45, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

(changed the above to a link so that this page is not placed into the rough translation category -- [[User:Kjkolb|Kjkolb]] 08:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC))
== Explanation ==

Some explanation regarding the usage of this template would be good (what are variables 1 and 2 supposed to be?). --[[User:Abdull|Abdull]] 13:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

== Please be judicious in use of Template:No-rough ==

There is a new template, [[Template:No-rough|<nowiki>{{No-rough}}</nowiki>]], that was created 3 September 2011. While use of <nowiki>{{No-rough}}</nowiki> is appropriate when an editor has merely dumped a machine-translation into Wikipedia, please examine the article in question to make sure that it is of unacceptable quality before posting the <nowiki>{{No-rough}}</nowiki> to the user's talk page. There are many legitimate uses for <nowiki>{{Rough translationh}}</nowiki>, & an editor should not be scolded for merely using this template appropriately. [[Mahalo]]! [[User:Peaceray|Peaceray]] ([[User talk:Peaceray|talk]]) 20:27, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

== Languages list? ==

Documentation of parameter 2 refers to a list of languages, but doesn't make clear what list. Could a link be provided, please? --[[User:Stfg|Stfg]] ([[User talk:Stfg|talk]]) 17:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

:I've expanded the example with more details to make this point clear. —[[User:capmo|capmo]] ([[User talk:capmo|talk]]) 03:50, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

== Date parameter ==

Could someone please add a date parameter to this template?  My attempt to do so was not successful.  Thanks!  [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 01:47, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

== About the ''listed'' parameter ==

I added the ''listed'' parameter to the {{tl|rough translation}} template at [[Church of the Holy Mother of God, Kuršumlija]] but the PNT section still isn't showing up. Did I do something wrong? [[User:Largoplazo|—Largo Plazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 13:43, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
:I finally looked closely enough to realize it wasn't just not being displayed, it didn't exist anywhere in the code. I've added it. [[User:Largoplazo|—Largo Plazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 13:29, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

== The message ==

''translator without dual proficiency''

Could this be refined-as it really doesn't make a lot of sense. -- <span class="vcard"><span class="fn nickname">[[User:ClemRutter|Clem Rutter]]</span> ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]])</span> 23:11, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

:What about "by a translator not fully [/sufficiently] proficient in English", or "by a translator lacking English proficiency"? —[[User:capmo|capmo]] ([[User talk:capmo|talk]]) 04:12, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

== Sounds a bit too harsh ==

I think the wording of this template is very harsh, if not insulting, and may deter valuable editors from contributing.  There was a [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2016_August_10#Template:Rough_translation|proposal]] to merge  it with [[Template:Cleanup_translation]], but it failed on a technicality. I am considering proposing the same thing. Any thoughts? [[User:Rentier|Rentier]] ([[User talk:Rentier|talk]]) 12:50, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

== Doesn't work well on drafts ==

This template appears on [[Draft:Franziska Meissner-Diemer]], with {{tq|The original article is under "Deutsch" in the "languages" sidebar}} wording.  The problem is, for a draft, the wikidata link doesn't exist, so there isn't actually any Deutsch entry in the sidebar.  -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 14:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
: {{re|RoySmith}}, yes, it should check for Draft space and not emit that wording in that case. You could issue a [[Template:Edit template-protected|edit request]] for it. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

== Checking the language names ==

Please see [[Template talk:Cleanup translation#Checking the language names]] for a discussion of a proposed parameter change which may affect this article as well. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:37, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

== "Machine translation is worse than nothing" ==

[[WP:MACHINETRANSLATION]] says that "Wikipedia consensus is that '''an unedited machine translation, left as a Wikipedia article, is worse than nothing.'''", which was news to me. Should this template reflect that with an "or consider removing it", linking to that essay? --[[User:Lord Belbury|Lord Belbury]] ([[User talk:Lord Belbury|talk]]) 15:59, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
:If a translation is awful, I don't think the reason it's awful makes any difference when considering what to do with it, whether it's because it was a machine translation or because a human with a poor grasp of the source or target language produced it. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 19:13, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
: {{u|Lord Belbury}}, I actually make a slight distinction between equally bad human, or machine translations. A bad machine translation can be worse than nothing, because a machine translation can be recreated by any user at any time with a few keystrokes. In fact, the more time goes on, the more likely it is that a new machine translation will be better than something pasted into the article back when machine translation wasn't as good as it is now. There's no button you can click to make a bad human translation better, however. I agree with {{u|Largoplazo}} that there's no effective distinction in what the result should be in either case: improve it, tag it, or even just remove it entirely, reducing the article to a stub consisting of a single, [[WP:LEADSENTENCE|defining sentence]], and two or three references. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 00:47, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

== Bug in language param handling ==

Param 1 is the language parameter, and takes a full language name, like {{para|1|German}}, or {{para|1|Spanish}}. Because other language-related templates use the [[ISO 639]] language code such as {{pval|de}} or {{pval|es}} instead of name, there is an undocumented convenience feature in this template which permits the use of either the language name or the language code in param 1, for those who can't remember which one to use. However, there is a bug which appears in very rare cases where the full name of one language matches the language code of a different language. The only case where this has occurred so far to my knowledge, is at [[Bayinnaung's Bell Inscription]] which was a translation from [[Mon language]], and so the canonical transclusion at that article using the full language name should be this:
: {{tlx|rough translation|Mon}}
However, that generates the wrong banner, naming 'Mongolian' instead of 'Mon', because {{para|mon}} happens to be the language code for 'Mongolian'. The bug is that the code currently checks first for language code, and then for language name, and it should do it the other way round.  For right now, the workaround is to use the language code for Mon, i.e. {{tlx|rough translation|mnw}}. I don't believe there are any other examples of this bug, but one could search the [[WP:List of Wikipedias|list of Wikipedia language names]] for ones that are only two or three characters long, to see if they match the ISO code for some other language. For example, 'Ido', 'Lao', 'Twi' and 'Wu' are short language names, but there is no second language that use those as an iso code, so the bug cannot occur in those cases. 'Mon' may be the only case where the bug can occur. For another way to do it, see {{tl|Needtrans}}, which works with 'Mon' or 'Mnw'.  [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 03:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
: Courtesy pinging {{u|Gonnym}}, due to [[Special:Diff/975769485‎|this edit]]. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 04:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
::If we do it the other way around then any usages that use {{para|1|mon}} for the the code will be broken. There is no real fix here and since this is a very rare case, just use the language code. [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 08:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)