View source for Template talk:Sockpuppet/Archive 1

{{talkarchivenav}}
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==Where's the beef?==
I sometimes read ''This user may be an abusive sockpuppet of ''[X]''; see <nowiki>{{{evidence}}} for evidence</nowiki>'', even where this template has ''recently'' been applied. (Or recently reapplied. There are, of course, lengthy edit wars over provision of these templates.) Well, where's the evidence? If there is evidence, specify it; if there isn't, don't apply the template. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] 11:11, 2005 May 28 (UTC)

:Frankly, it's exremely difficult to see how to include the link to evidence.  I've just been struggling with it, trying different methods, and I've completely failed.  Do you have any advice? [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 11:07, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

The administrators should meet privately, not have a whole public post to humiliate people. This is exactly like the Salem Witch Trials. --[[User:FDR315|Max]] 15:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::The format to use is: 
::'''<nowiki>{{sockpuppet|[[User:User|User]]|evidence=[[Evidence page]]}}</nowiki>'''
::It works similarly to how [[Template:Copyvio]] works. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 11:58, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

== Inherently personal attack? ==

Regarding the current edit war on [[User:Enviroknot|Enviroknot]]'s user page, I feel that this template is inherently a personal attack.  I read the TfD debate, and I feel that several users agreed with my sentiments.  I think that "evidence" should be restricted to very clear evidence ''for each user''.  This would often constitute a link to a mailing list archive where the users with the checkuser function have confirmed sockpuppetry.  If there is a reasonable dispute, and no incontrovertible evidence, the template should probably be removed, as it would ignore [[WP:FAITH]].  [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 09:20, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I think that the demand for absolute proof is too strong; when one user makes the same sorts of edit in the same sort of style on the same articles as another user, that's pretty good grounds for suspecting sockpuppetry &mdash; when they edit each other's User pages and have IP addresses in the same city, or even the same institution, then the evidence is as strong as you're likely to get.  After all, the template text says that they're ''suspected'' of being sockpuppets.
:I agree, though, that the standard shouldn't be set too low; there has to be some good ground for the suspicion, and some consensus among a set of editors is probably desirable (it's certainly true that the template ''can'' be used as a personal attack).
:By the way, can you label a diagram of a synovial joint? Of the human digestive system?  You only have three hours... [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 10:13, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::For those wondering, Mel is referring to my biology GCSE.  My answer to him is, of course, do you really think we still need to?  This is the twenty-first century examination system!  We don't need to do anything!

::Back on topic, I simply think that this template is overly disruptive to a user who is not blocked permanently or banned indefinitely by the ArbComm.  I have no problem with it if the user is inactive, but it is really over the top to apply it to a user who is actively editing.  [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 10:34, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:::It's also odd to apply it when the evidence is feeble. The evidence here seems to be that they all have bizarre political views, cooperate with each other, and are in Houston. But notoriously places like Houston are bristling with cronies pushing bizarre political views. 

:::On the other hand, if an admin is certain that the sockpuppet template is justified, why doesn't he just stick it there and lock the page? (Conceivably, in order that the accused puppet can argue against it or supplement it -- but it's hard to imagine that happening.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] 10:46, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

(after edit conflict)
If a user has been banned, or is inactive, there surely isn't any need for the warning.  I suppose that we need to ask two questions:
#What is the purpose of the template?
#What standard of evidence is rquired for its use?
My answer to the first is that it's there to inform other editors (and especially admins), who might not be aware of what's going on. My answer to the second is that there should be reasonable grounds for the suspicion.  The corrollary to my first answer is that the image is inappropriate.  The template should be noticeable but formal; it should merely inform the reader that there's a possible problem with this editor's behaviour, and leave it at that. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 10:51, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:In response to Hoary's question: there are strict guidelines for protecting pages, and I don't think that this sort of case meets them. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 10:52, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Redesign==

Would anyone mind if I cut this down and removed the image?  The object could be done in a far less disruptive and antagonistic fashion.  [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 10:31, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I'd support that. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 11:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

;Options



{| class="Talk-Notice"
|-
|align="center"|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|50px|Comment]]
|width="100%"|It is believed that this user may be an abusive [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|sockpuppet]] of [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]; see {{{evidence}}} for evidence.}}
|}[[Category:Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets of {{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="Talk-Notice" style="padding:5px; width:40%; text-align:left; height:60px"
|align="center"|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|50px]] || width="100%"|It is believed that this user may be an abusive [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|sockpuppet]] of [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]; see {{{evidence}}} for evidence.}}
|}[[Category:Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets of {{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]

:Which do you prefer? [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 12:43, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Even apart from the glitch in the first, I prefer the second. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 13:25, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I'll swap it for the second, then. The first one is fixed, by the way.  [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 13:33, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that this looks much better &mdash; more professional, less like a personal attack.  Whether it makes any difference to those people to whose User pages it's applied is another matter, of course... [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]]  ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<span style="color:green;">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</span>)]] 13:57, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:All sorted.  When using the template, place it in with the URL of the evidence in square brackets to give a numbered external link, or use normal Wiki linking syntax.  i.e.:
<pre><nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Sock-mastername|[[WP:RFAR]]}}</nowiki></pre>

:or

<pre><nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Sock-mastername|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RFAr]}}</nowiki></pre>

:This ensures the design works correctly. [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 14:01, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Evidence==

[[user:Mirv|Mirv]] added an evidence variable without any prior discussion that broke 90% of the pages using this template. Somebody either fixes every broken page, or the evidence variable must be removed. —[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]…[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 05:23, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

:Or it could stay there and draw attention to the lack of support for some accusations of sockpuppetry. The template's format still works, doesn't it? &#8212;[[User:Mirv|Charles&nbsp;P.]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;<small>(Mirv)</small>]] 16:49, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

::Couldn't the template use one of those hinky conditional-inclusion tricks to not print the meaningless-looking "<nowiki>Please refer to {{{evidence}}} for evidence</nowiki>" clause if the evidence variable is not set? —[[User:Ummit|Steve Summit]] ([[User talk:Ummit|talk]]) 13:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

==Category==
I see no problem with having the general category, but it seems there are just a lot of red links, because it puts the username in each category name.  Hardly no one uses it that way,  I suggest just using [[:Category:Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets]], as it seems the majority of them go there anyway. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">&infin;</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">&iquest;</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 07:20, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*I'm adding [[:Category:Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets]], even though it has ''sockpuppets of...'', since none of those new categories will be categorized, this at least puts them all in one category.  [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">&infin;</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">&iquest;</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 23:56, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

==Icon==
I'm not sure what I think of the idea behind this template in general.  One immediate concern I have is that the apps_important icon is usually used to indicate a serious system problem.  The icon carries negative connotations.  Since this template is applied to a user who is only suspected of being a SP, and since there is no standard (AFAIK) for applying the template, I'd like to try a "softer" icon.  I'll go ahead and change it to a different one that seems to apply.  Most of the ones that would be suitable can be found [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nuvola/apps here].  This is just suggested as a trial change, I'm certainly not tied to it. -[[User:O^O|O^O]] 18:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
:I think it's ok, but is there a non-gender specific version? [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#000000;">&infin;</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">&iquest;</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 19:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
::I don't see one.  It's pretty subjective to pick the "best" icon for this situation.  Someone else can feel free to change it, the one currently posted is my best suggestion. -[[User:O^O|O^O]] 19:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
:[[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|right|frame|[[:Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png]]]]I think that [[:Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png]] would be a better call, since it depicts 2 users. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord <span style="color:#FF0000;">C</span><span style="color:#EE0000;">y</span><span style="color:#DD0000;">b</span><span style="color:#CC0000;">e</span><span style="color:#BB0000;">r</span><span style="color:#AA0000;">S</span><span style="color:#990000;">k</span><span style="color:#880000;">u</span><span style="color:#770000;">l</span><span style="color:#660000;">l</span>]] [[User_talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 10:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

== Category change? ==

Has the category changed for sock puppets? If so we should update the template. -[[User:Will Beback|Will Beback]] 07:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

== Usage ==
What/where are the guidelines for the usage of this template?  Can any user place it, once a determination has come back from Checkuser?  Or should it only be placed by admins? What should happen if it is properly placed, but then the user persists in removing it, even though checkuser confirms the status.? --[[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 15:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:To answer the question of what happens if a checkuser confirms sockpuppetry, {{TI|SockpuppetCheckuser}}.  Also see {{TI|SockpuppetProven}} [[User:Kevin Breitenstein|Kevin_b_er]] 03:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

== proposal for newer sockpuppet template ==

I'm planning to replace the existing template with the newer template. Here's the template:
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| [[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|50px| ]]
| '''It is suspected that this user might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|sock puppet]] or impersonator of [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]'''.<br>Please refer to {{{evidence|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}}} for evidence. <small>See [{{SERVER}}/wiki/Special:Log/block?page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}} block log]</small>
| [[Image:Sock Puppet Star.gif|50px|right| ]]
|}<includeonly>[[Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of {{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]][[Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly><noinclude>
</noinclude>
Do you '''support''' or '''oppose'''? I '''support''' for this template. --[[User:Bigtop|'''<span style="color:blue;">Big</span>'''<span style="color:#000080;">top</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Bigtop|customer service]] - [[User:Bigtop/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">thank you for your cooperation.</span>]])</small> 06:37, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

:'''support''' looks cool [[User:Minun|<span style="color: #ffcc00;">''' ''Minun'' '''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Minun|<span style="color: #ffcc00;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 18:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' i don't believe in the term "sockpuppet".  A sockpuppet is an alias account and most of the time they're harmless.  Imagine if this happened on [[EBay]].  Could you imagine if everyone knew what accounts you use to bid? [[User:Axiomm|Axiomm]] 04:36, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
::Note that the [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|policy]] does not forbid editing harmlessly under multiple usernames. It forbids using multiple accounts in ways that are harmful, such as deceiving other users into thinking there is more support for a proposal or point of view than there actually is.--[[User:Srleffler|Srleffler]] 22:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:'''oppose'''. Not big on the sockpuppet barnstar.--[[User:Srleffler|Srleffler]] 22:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:'''Support''' with the following reservations.
::#Get rid of the barnstar image; barnstars are associated with rewarding users here, not punishing them.
::#Tweak the wording to read "a ''malicious'' sockpuppet of [username here]; as Axiomn pointed out, some sockpuppets are good-faith aliases used to edit different kinds of article.

::--[[User:ISNorden|Ingeborg S. Nordén]] 15:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

== Avoiding redirect / replacing URL block log link ==
Please change a redirect from [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet]] to [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry]] on the main protected template page. Also please replace:

<samp><nowiki><small>See [{{SERVER}}/wiki/Special:Log/block?page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}} block log]</small></nowiki></samp>

by

<samp><nowiki><small><span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log.]</span></small></nowiki></samp>

so that the arrow in superscript after "block log" will not appear visibly. -- [[User:ADNghiem501|ADNghiem501]] 06:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

:Done. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color:green;">"?!"</span>]] 18:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

::Oops! Please add <samp>See</samp> <s>with a space before "block log".</s> after <nowiki><span class="plainlinks"></nowiki>. I missed one. -- [[User:ADNghiem501|ADNghiem501]] 22:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC) Also, please change the position of a dot after a ], not before. Just a little mistake. -- [[User:ADNghiem501|ADNghiem501]] 11:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

:::Done. [[User:Kimchi.sg|Kimchi.sg]] 17:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

== [[User:BetacommandBot]] substing ==

Why is [[User:BetacommandBot]] subst:ing all uses of this template? <span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—[[User:Quarl|Quarl]] <sup>([[User Talk:Quarl|talk]])</sup> <small>[[2006-07-29]] 17:40Z</small></i></span>

:I think it's according to [[Wikipedia:Template substitution]] that the bot is working on. Please leave a message to [[User talk:BetacommandBot]] instead; the owner of this bot will respond to you on your talk page. -- [[User:ADNghiem501|ADNghiem501]] 23:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[:Template:Sockpuppet]] is not listed in [[WP:SUBST]].  Please don't encourage talk page fragmentation; this is the right place to discuss it. <span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—[[User:Quarl|Quarl]] <sup>([[User Talk:Quarl|talk]])</sup> <small>[[2006-07-30]] 00:01Z</small></i></span>
:::I don't see the bot is listed there either. -- [[User:ADNghiem501|ADNghiem501]] 00:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I have subst'ed per WP:SUBST but i have also seen some other pages that say that certien templates should be subst'ed {some are not on WP:SUBST} there must have been a error. at the time i was collecting a list of template that should be subst'ed. I believe there was an error, I apllogise for that mistake and have fixed the error in my bot. if at any time anyone has questions about my bot please leave a comment on its talk page. i have a failsafe in plase so that when there is a comment it stops working untill i review the message. [[User:Betacommand|Betacommand]] 04:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

== Small change.. ==
Could someone change <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log].</span></small> to <small><span class="plainlinks">See ([http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{urlencode:{{PAGENAME}}}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks] [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log])</span></small> or something like that?--[[User:205.188.116.12|205.188.116.12]] 03:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
:Done. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 20:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

== ja: ==

sysops, please add interlang to [[:ja:Template:Sockpuppet]].--[[User:端くれの錬金術師|端くれの錬金術師]] 08:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Kusma|Kusma]] [[User_talk:Kusma|(討論)]] 11:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
::thx!--[[User:端くれの錬金術師|端くれの錬金術師]] 04:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== cs: ==
sysops,please change interlang for cs: from [[:cs:Šablona:Sockpuppet]] to [[:cs:Šablona:Loutkový účet]]. It has been moved. --[[User:端くれの錬金術師|hashikure]]<span style="font-size:x-small;">([[User_talk:端くれの錬金術師|talk]])</span> 18:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

:Done. If you have any questions, please contact me at [[User talk:IanManka|my talk page]]. [[User:IanManka|Ian Manka]] 04:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

== Image ==
Image:Puppeter_template.gif would be a more appropriate icon.  See {{tl|SockpuppetProven}} for example. &mdash; <span style="font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]</span> &#91;[[User_talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]&#93; &#91;[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|contrib]]&#93;</span> <span style="color: #990000; font-weight: bold;">ツ</span> 23:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

==Template category==
What cat should this template be in? ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', 11:30 [[12  December]] [[2006]] (GMT).
:OK, Created cat, [[:Category:Sockpuppet templates]] What cat should ''that'' be in? ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', 12:06 [[12  December]] [[2006]] (GMT).

==Edit request==
Like we have on {{tl|Sockpuppeteer}}, could someone add the following code to the start of the template message?

<samp><nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{{2|}}}|blocked|This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because it|It}} is suspected that {{#ifeq:{{{2|}}}|blocked|he/she|this user}} might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] or impersonator of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}]]'''.</nowiki></samp>

--'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 03:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

:*<s>Done.</s>[[User:Persian Poet Gal|<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;"><i>¤~Persian Poet Gal</i></b>]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 19:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

::*The parameters seem to be mixing up.  Anyone here more experienced with coding this in?[[User:Persian Poet Gal|<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;"><i>¤~Persian Poet Gal</i></b>]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 19:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::*Alright, I experimented with the new parameters a bit more and it seems to function just fine now.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;"><i>¤~Persian Poet Gal</i></b>]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 19:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
::::*Looks good at first glance, easy enough mistakes to make. One thought, would it be easier to use "blocked=yes"? &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 19:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::*Go ahead and key it in if it works better.  I'm no wiz with templates as you can tell :P.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;"><i>¤~Persian Poet Gal</i></b>]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 19:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

==Full stop==

Yes, this is a pretty useless request, but could someone just add a full stop at the end of the bolded sentence? --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 03:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
:'''''Banne'''''-- I mean '''done'''. Good catch. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 23:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
::Banne? --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 05:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

== One word? ==

<nowiki>{{editprotected}}</nowiki>
Isn't "sockpuppet" one word? If so, could you change it? --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 12:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
:Per usage on [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry]], it's two words. What exactly would you like to be changed? [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] 21:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
::"''If so, could you change it?''" But since it's not, disregard this. --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 00:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

==Wording==
We can't be sure that we're dealing with sockpuppetry rather than meatpuppetry or mimicry, especially with the "suspected" template rather than the confirmed one, so it's important to make that clear. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] [[User_talk:SlimVirgin|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 08:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

:You don't think that including the words "suspected" and "might" is sufficient?
:Your changes imply that this tag should intentionally be added to the user pages of impostors and people who register accounts specifically to support the positions of others (friends, relatives, et cetera).  The latter is particularly distressing, as that act often is carried out in good faith by well-meaning newcomers who are unfamiliar with our standards.  The "meat puppet" designation is applicable only to the specific discussion(s) that bring them here, ''not'' to all future participation.  Such individuals are potential contributors who should be welcomed to Wikipedia and advised of our policies, ''not'' branded with this template.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 08:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

::Meatpuppet accounts are accounts where it isn't possible to tell whether you're dealing with a sockpuppet or not. The ArbCom has ruled that, for the purposes of enforcing policy, they don't distinguish between the two. So if someone's friend registered only to support that person's edits, and was editing from the same IP address, that would indeed give rise to a suspicion of sock/meatpuppetry. Bear in mind that these tags are only added when an account has acted in a way that attracts a block, and that tends only to happen after several warnings to the main account. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] [[User_talk:SlimVirgin|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 08:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

:::While the acts of sock puppetry and meat puppetry can be equivalent in effect, the long-term ramifications are ''not'' the same.  A sock puppet account can never be anything more than that.  Meat puppetry, conversely, is a potentially short-term act (and not necessarily a bad-faith one).
:::Even someone temporarily blocked for vandalism (an inherently bad-faith act) doesn't have a tag identifying him/her as a "vandal" placed on his/her user page.  We hope that such individuals will see the error of their ways and decide to become productive contributors (just as we do with meat puppets).
:::I understand your concern, but the aforementioned "suspected"/"might" wording already allows for the possibility that the suspicions are incorrect (whether the person is a meat puppet or is completely innocent).  Your changes obfuscate the template's intended purpose.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 09:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

::::Okay, fair enough. I was trying to cover more than one eventuality. And I can't see anyone who is blocked for being a meatpuppet wanting to come back with the same single-issue account when they likely have a very small number of edits. All they'd have to do is open another one. But if you want to remove it, that's fine. I think we should retain impersonator though. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] [[User_talk:SlimVirgin|<sup style="color:purple;">(talk)</sup>]] 09:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::Thank you.  I have no strong opinion about the "impersonator" wording.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 09:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello. Users tagged with this template are tagged because they may be sockpuppets, not because they may be impersonators. If they are impersonators, the tagging is simply incorrect. Using ''impersonators'' as a catch-all is like saying "This user is blocked because they are vandals or misunderstood". ;) —<small>{[[WP:ADMIN|admin]]} [[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 06:56:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)</small>

==From Template_talk:SockpuppetProven==
===Linked Evidence===
Why is <nowiki>{{{evidence}}}</nowiki> linked? This means you can't (at least not without hacking the template) put links inside.  If it wasn't linked, you could put one or more. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] - [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 06:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

===Image Type===
[[User:Sunfazer|Sunfazer]] changed the image used from SVG to PNG without explanation; [[User:Lbmixpro|Lbmixpro]] reverted. This seems right because [[Wikipedia:Image policy|image policy]] says SVG should generally be used for icons.  If something's wrong with the SVG, please explain here. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] - [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 20:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

===Incompatibility between SockpuppetProven and SockpuppetCheckuser===
This template categorizes users into <nowiki>[[Category:Wikipedia:Sock puppets of {{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]</nowiki>, whereas {{[[Template:SockpuppetCheckuser|SockpuppetCheckuser]]}} categorizes users into <nowiki>[[Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of {{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]</nowiki> (the difference is one colon, one space, and the capitalization on the S). I would be bold and make this consistent, but I'm not sure which one should take precedence, or which one is in more common use. --[[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 12:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
:It was fixed. [[User:Kilo-Lima|<span style="color:#007FFF;">Iola</span>]][[User:Kilo-Lima/Esperanza|<b style="color:#50C878;">k</b>]][[User:Kilo-Lima|<span style="color:#007FFF;">ana</span>]]•[[User talk:Kilo-Lima|<span style="color:orange;">T</span>]] 17:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

==From Template_talk:SockpuppetCheckuser==
===Reverted image addition===
I've reverted the image additions to the template; my intent in creating this specific derivative of the {{tl|sockpuppet}} template was to have a template that followed the uniform sockpuppet style, but eliminated the evidence link in favor of the specific notation that the determination was made by checkuser. I think it's probably best to leave the basic format in the standard socktag format; I think the only big difference is the width, which I shortened because there was less text involved, and perhaps the addition of the log links at the bottom (which make checking block status on a dozen sockpuppets much quicker). <span style="font-family:Sans serif">[[User:Essjay|<span style="color:#7b68ee;">'''Essjay'''</span>]] <span style="color: #7b68ee">(<small>[[User talk:Essjay|<span style="color:#7b68ee;">Talk</span>]] • [[User:Essjay/Contact|<span style="color:#7b68ee;">Connect</span>]]</small>)</span></span> 06:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

===Error===
Take a look at [[User:100% Christian]], where this template is used. You'll notice that the bottom part says "Christian all logs" instead of "all logs", and the link points to [[User:100%]]. There's some kind of problem with accounts with special characters. Can it be fixed? [[User:Grandmasterka|<span style="color:red;">Grand</span>]][[User talk:Grandmasterka|<span style="color:#FF0099;">master</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Grandmasterka|<span style="color:red;">ka</span>]] 04:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Actually, it doesn't like anything after the first space... See [[User:Ali Hamed El Bastawisi]]. Could somebody with more template know-how fix this? [[User:Grandmasterka|<span style="color:red;">Grand</span>]][[User talk:Grandmasterka|<span style="color:#FF0099;">master</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Grandmasterka|<span style="color:red;">ka</span>]] 02:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

==Alternate templates==
In the case of an abusive sockpuppet which has been confirmed, but is not blocked, which template should be used? --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 17:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

: You should contact an administrator to have the account blocked, then tag it as confirmed and blocked. :) —<small>{[[WP:ADMIN|admin]]} [[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 23:25:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)</small>

== New proposal ==

{{tl|editprotected}}
If you've seen [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:SockpuppetProven&diff=127001911&oldid=122910848 this edit] I made to {{tl|SockpuppetProven}}, you'll see that I reverted [[User:Pathoschild|Pathochild]]'s edit, because I preferred the old message than the one we have now. But then I saw that the templates have merged into this template, so I reverted myself afterwards. But I really liked the old message (and I'm sure others did to), so I took the code and fiddled around it on '''[[User:AAA!/Sockpuppet|this page]]''' I made. I've now changed the code around so it will produce the following:

<samp><nowiki>{{User:AAA!/Sockpuppet|example}}</nowiki></samp>

{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| {{#switch:{{{2}}}|confirmed=[[Image:Puppeter template.svg|45px]]|[[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|45px]]}}
| '''{{#switch:{{{2}}}
||confirmed = This user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]], and has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]].
|blocked = This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because it is suspected that the user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].|It is suspected that this user might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].}}'''<br />Please refer to {{#if:{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}} for evidence. <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log] and [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{PAGENAMEE}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks].</span></small>
|}

<samp><nowiki>{{User:AAA!/Sockpuppet|example|blocked}}</nowiki></samp>

{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| {{#switch:blocked|confirmed=[[Image:Puppeter template.svg|45px]]|[[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|45px]]}}
| '''{{#switch:blocked
||confirmed = This user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]], and has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]].
|blocked = This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because it is suspected that the user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].|It is suspected that this user might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].}}'''<br />Please refer to {{#if:{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}} for evidence. <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log] and [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{PAGENAMEE}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks].</span></small>
|}

<samp><nowiki>{{User:AAA!/Sockpuppet|example|confirmed}}</nowiki></samp>

{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| {{#switch:confirmed|confirmed=[[Image:Puppeter template.svg|45px]]|[[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|45px]]}}
| '''{{#switch:confirmed
||confirmed = This user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]], and has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]].
|blocked = This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because it is suspected that the user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].|It is suspected that this user might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:example}}|{{ucfirst:example}}]].}}'''<br />Please refer to {{#if:{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}} for evidence. <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log] and [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{PAGENAMEE}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks].</span></small>
|}

You can see that I've changed the message on the "confirmed" function to the one I preferred. I've also tested the parameters, which you can see here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=127045983] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&direction=prev&oldid=127045983] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&direction=prev&oldid=127045955]. But there is also a glitch in it: If you don't add the user name parameter, the template will produce the following:

{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| {{#switch:{{{2}}}|confirmed=[[Image:Puppeter template.svg|45px]]|[[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|45px]]}}
| '''{{#switch:{{{2}}}
||confirmed = This user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}]], and has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]].
|blocked = This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because it is suspected that the user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}]].|It is suspected that this user might be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}]].}}'''<br />Please refer to {{#if:{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}} for evidence. <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log] and [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{PAGENAMEE}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks].</span></small>
|}

But since I know you usually have to add a user parameter, I added <nowiki><noinclude> and <inludeonly></nowiki> tags so the other parameters will be unnaffected by this problem [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:AAA%21/Sockpuppet&diff=127044704&oldid=127043151]. But the only way I know to overcome this problem is to always use a user parameter.

Anyway, if that glitch can be fixed so I don't have to use the <nowiki><noinclude> and <inludeonly></nowiki> tags, I was wondering if an admin could replace the current code on the template with the code I made ([http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:AAA%21/Sockpuppet&action=edit here] it is, by the way). Thanks. --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 05:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

: You should be able to test whether the first parameter is defined or not using ifeq (see [[m:ParserFunctions]].  I'll let you make those changes.  Put up another edit request when they're done and I'll copy your source over. [[User:CMummert|CMummert]] · <small>[[User talk:CMummert|talk]]</small> 13:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

:: Well, I don't really know what to do. Can you do it for me? --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 22:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

::: If I understand correctly, you want the 'confirmed' toggle to change the message as such:
{| class="prettytable" style="margin-left:6em; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;"
|-
!style="text-align:left;"| Former
| This user has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]] because the user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]].
|-
!style="text-align:left;"| Proposed
| This user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]], and has been [[WP:BLOCK|blocked indefinitely]].
|}

::: Is that correct? —<small>{[[WP:ADMIN|admin]]} [[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 00:56:32, 04 May 2007 (UTC)</small>
:::: Yes, that's correct. I just made this proposal seem so big because changing the confirmed message just like that might mess up the ParserFunctions; so I tried to find a way around that. --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 06:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

::::: [{{fullurl:Template:Sockpuppet|diff=128581067}} Done]. —<small>{[[WP:ADMIN|admin]]} [[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 05:17:03, 06 May 2007 (UTC)</small>
::::::Thanks. But unfortunately, it has also messed up {{tl|Blockedsockpuppet}}. I don't know what's wrong. --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</sup> 04:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

::::::: I fixed it. It looks like a weird glitch with ParserFunctions containing links containing ParserFunctions. —<small>{[[WP:ADMIN|admin]]} [[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 03:41:04, 08 May 2007 (UTC)</small>

== Requested edit ==

{{tl|editprotected}}
Can someone fix the Sockpuppet templates category by adding |Sockpuppet at the end (<nowiki>[[Category:Sockpuppet templates]]</nowiki> → <nowiki>[[Category:Sockpuppet templates|Sockpuppet]]</nowiki>)? Thanks, '''[[User_talk:Mystytopia|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:#0066FF;">Clyde</span>]] <small><span style="color: #0099FF; font-family:Trebuchet MS">(a.k.a [[User:Mystytopia|Mystytopia]])</span></small>''' 13:32, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
:[[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] '''Done'''. Cheers. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] 23:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

== Please replace all <samp>.png</samp> images to <samp>.svg</samp> version ==
{{tl|editprotected}}
Please replace this <samp>.png</samp> image: [[Image:Nuvola apps kdmconfig.png|40px]] to this <samp>.svg</samp> version: [[Image:System-users.svg|40px]] [[User:68.5.224.107|68.5.224.107]] 20:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

<span style="font-size:medium;">'''How it should look like:'''</span>
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="width: auto;"
|-
| {{#switch:{{{2}}}|confirmed=[[Image:Puppeter template.svg|45px]]|[[Image:System-users.svg|45px]]}}
| '''{{#switch:{{{2}}}
   |blocked
   |confirmed = This user is a {{#switch:{{{2}}}|blocked=suspected}} [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1|<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1|<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>}}}}}]], and has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked indefinitely]]
   | It is suspected that this user is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{ucfirst:{{{1|<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>}}}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1|<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>}}}}}]]}}.'''<br />Please refer to {{#if:{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|{{{3|{{{evidence|}}}}}}|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}} for evidence. <small><span class="plainlinks">See [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log] and [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~pgk/autoblock.php?autoblock=&blocker=&blockee={{PAGENAMEE}}&time=0&submit=Submit+Query current autoblocks].</span></small>
|}
:[[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] '''Done'''. Cheers. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] 01:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Temporary Wikipedian userpages]] ==

I added a switch so that confirmed and blocked now keys this category too, as both imply indefblocked. -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 16:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
:You'll have to change this back; users marked as sockpuppets should ''not'' go in [[CAT:TEMP]]. CAT:TEMP is for old user and user talk pages of indefinitley blocked ''vandals'' (not sockpuppets) that should be deleted; sockpuppets get removed from that category, not added it to. It says this in the category. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 17:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
::No prob. But then we need to delete the automatic marking from {{tl|indefblockeduser}} since puppets are often tageed that way too, no? -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 21:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Sockpuppets aren't meant to be tagged with "indefblockeduser" at all; they're supposed to be tagged with whichever sock template fits them. If removing the automatic marking you are referring to prevents socks from being placed in CAT:TEMP, then yes, it should be removed. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 00:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== Template design ==

{{tl|editprotected}}

Please could someone change the design so it looks similar to this:
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="background:#FFD690; width: 50%;"
|-
| [[Image:Puppeter template.svg|50px| ]]
| '''It is suspected that this user may be a [[WP:SOCK|sock puppet]] of [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]'''.<br>Please refer to {{{evidence|[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]}}} for evidence. <small>See [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{PAGENAMEE}}}} block log]</small>
|}


The background colour is taken from [[:it:w:Template:Sockpuppet]]. The above design is from a copy in my userspace for testing.

The text doesn't need changing, just the background design. --[[User:SunStar Net|<b style="color:red;">SunStar Net</b>]] <sup>[[User talk:SunStar Net|<i style="color:blue;">talk</i>]]</sup> 16:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
:Why change the color on this one? The same background color is used on all of these templates. --- [[User:RockMFR|RockMFR]] 16:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
:There is absolutely no need for this change, and I think that it's going to be controversial, so I'm disabling the tag. <b>[[User:Melsaran|<span style="color:red">Melsaran</span>]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Melsaran|talk]]) 20:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
===Blocked===
{{tl|editprotected}}

Shouldn't this template just be redirected to {{tl|Blockedsockpuppet}} because they are identical. [[User:The sunder king|The sunder king]] 15:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

:No, because this allows for multiple options, as shown on the document page. If anything {{tl|Blockedsockpuppet}} should be redirected to <nowiki>{{sockpuppet|username|confirmed}}</nowiki> if that is possible. See the doc page there as well. -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 15:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

::I edited the wrong talkpage! doh!!!! I meant {{tl|Sockpuppetconfirmed}} to be redirected to {{tl|blockedsockpuppet}}. my mistake sorry. [[User:The sunder king|The sunder king]] 18:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

:::That's okay, because [[Template talk:SockpuppetProven]] actually redirects here. So just say which template you want changed on this page. --'''[[User:AAA!|<span style="color:red">AAA!</span>]]''' <small>([[User talk:AAA!|<span style="color:green">AAAA</span>]])</small> 06:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

{{tlx|editprotected}}

:The templates {{tl|Blockedsockpuppet}} amd {{tl|Sockpuppetconfirmed}} are exactly the same. Shouldn't one be redirected to the other or one altered, because they even say the same thing!. --[[User:The sunder king|The sunder king]] 08:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
::All redirects should now point to [[Template:Blockedsockpuppet]]. Cheers. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] 02:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

== Length of time for application of template ==

A user who had all his socks blocked wasn't logged in and removed all the sock tags from his socks' userpages. He'd like to know why, if the sock has been blocked (or "dead" as he calls it), why he can't remove the tags. I had reverted the anon changes as unexplained, besides which it looks like he's trying to cover his tracks, but there's no provision in the guidelines for the permanence or removal of such tags, is there? I think the tags should stay, but there seems to be no guideline regarding this that I can show him. Any help appreciated, thanks! [[User:Katr67|Katr67]] ([[User talk:Katr67|talk]]) 17:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

: IMHO, there's a perfectly good policy governing this: common sense. Of course he is free to remove the tags; you are free to replace them. If this goes to [[WP:3RR]], I know where my money is about who gets blocked first. Of course, he's welcome to assert a reason for removing the tags, but "there's no policy against it" does not qualify as a reason. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 00:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

::[[User:Scientizzle|Scientizzle]] reverted him again. Since he's an admin, I'll take that as common sense indeed. [[User:Katr67|Katr67]] ([[User talk:Katr67|talk]]) 00:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The question still stands.[User:Richprentice|Richprentice]] ([[User talk:Richprentice|talk]]) 03:31, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

== Puppets ==

Why is a [[sock puppet]] illustrated by a picture of a [[marionette]]? [[User:AlmostReadytoFly|AlmostReadytoFly]] ([[User talk:AlmostReadytoFly|talk]]) 18:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:Because most people don't know the difference, like [[turtle]]s and [[tortoise]]s, [[rabbit]]s and [[hare]]s, or [[monkey]]s and [[ape]]s. :-) &mdash; [[Special:Contributions/151.200.237.53|151.200.237.53]] ([[User talk:151.200.237.53|talk]]) 06:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

== Suggestion ==

Hello, fellow editors ... I recently had occasion to apply this template to the Talk page of a user whose User page was redlinked ... I think that instead of <blockquote>''this user may be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of [[User:Stephanie biddle|Stephanie biddle]].''</blockquote> it should appear as <blockquote>''this user may be a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of {{User|Stephanie biddle}}.''</blockquote>
''i.e.'', instead of <blockquote><code><nowiki>[[User:Example|Example]]</nowiki></code></blockquote>  use <blockquote><code><nowiki>{{User|Example}}</nowiki></code></blockquote>

I would do it myself, but the page is currently protected. :-)

Happy Editing! &mdash; '''{{#if:151.200.237.53|{{User|151.200.237.53}}|[[Special:Contributions/151.200.237.53|151.200.237.53]] ([[User talk:151.200.237.53|talk]])}}''' <sub>09:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)</sub>

== “this” ==

At present, the template links to the word “this” thus
:<nowiki>[[Wikipedia:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative_accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.</nowiki>
I ask that the link be to “this policy subsection” instead.
:<nowiki>[[Wikipedia:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative_accounts|this policy subsection]] may also be helpful.</nowiki>
Two reasons:
#Linking to words and phrases such as “this”, “here”, and “click here” makes webpages difficult to navigate for ''the visually impaired''.  To get some sense of how browsers work for them, imagine that a page were separated into two parts, the principal content, stripped of links, and then a column of links containing ''only'' the text to which the link were anchored.  One then has to ''guess'' whether a given “this”, “here”, or “click here” amongst the links is corresponds to another in the content.  Granted that “this policy subsection” isn't perfectly distinct from what one might find elsewhere on a page, but it is an improvement on “this”.
#Such a link is slightly more ''logical''.
—[[User:SlamDiego|SlamDiego]]<sub><span style="font-size:x-small;">[[User_talk:SlamDiego|&#8592;T]]</span></sub> 23:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

== 3rd parameter gone? ==

[[User:Lady_Aleena|Lady_Aleena]] made [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet&diff=222900571&oldid=222899849 changes] to this template in the last day, and now it appears that it's no longer possible to pass a third parameter to link the template to another page. However, [[Template:SockpuppetCheckuser]] (which uses [[Template:Sockpuppet]]) needs that third parameter to link in a RFCU page. Am I misunderstanding how this works, or will this be fixed?

(Also asked at [[User:Lady_Aleena|Lady_Aleena]]'s [[User_Talk:Lady_Aleena|talk page]])

[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ([[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]) 03:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet&diff=next&oldid=223096745 undone] the edit--not all socks of a user require checkuser, so the automatic linking wasn't always helpful.  This should also solve the problem with {{tl|SockpuppetCheckuser}}. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 16:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
::Only if the checkuser case existed, would it bring it up. It would then look for the SSP case. If there are no cases, it would bring up a generic message. The change I made fixed the problem and made the other template obsolete. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 17:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3ASockpuppet&diff=223111604&oldid=223096745 reverted] Jonny-mt's change as Lady Aleena included the <samp>&#123;{#ifexist:}}</samp> parser function, so the basis of "not all sockpuppets are noted at checkuser cases" is more or less moot in my eyes.  Best, —[[User:Animum|<b style="color:#002BB8">Animum</b>]] <small>([[User_talk:Animum|''talk'']])</small> 18:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
::::There are a couple issues with this, though.  First, the ultimate puppetmaster is typically the oldest account, although the checkusercase is typically filed under the name of the most active account (e.g. [[User:SuperSuperBoi]] is a sock of [[User:Qrc2006]], although the RFCU was filed under the original request at [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Boomgaylove]], because the first noticed sock was [[User:Boomgaylove]], who is now [[User:Renamed user 12]]), and not all socks with checkuser cases require checkuser (e.g. [[User:Thamareh]] is an obvious sock of [[User:Thamarih]], itself an RFCU-confirmed sock of [[User:SecretChiefs3]]; since there was no need to checkuser, looking at the RFCU would not be helpful).  In other words, we need a bit of flexibility to properly document these socks, which the current version (which technically very nice) does not provide. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 23:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::If the checkuser case does not exist, then it will check for a suspected sock puppet case, if that does not exist a general message will be used. I can understand that there are times where a case may not match the ultimate puppetmaster, but my suggestion is to use the nifty little tab above called "move" and rename the case to the appropriate puppetmaster. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 06:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, the problem with your suggestion are that the sheer [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Sockpuppet|volume of tags that would need to be checked]] to see what RFCUs need to be moved as well as the fact that not all confirmed puppets require a checkuser as noted above.  I'm not opposed to enabling some kind of automatic linking to an RFCU or SSP report, but I'm not a fan of the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of sock accounts out there pointing to a checkuser where they're not even mentioned as evidence that they're a sock.

::::::I get that you're trying to essentially unify an often-confusing group of templates into one, but you need to do it in a way that doesn't adversely affect the large number of existing transclusions.  So as a compromise, what about simply adding a third parameter that allows the autolinking to be turned on and off?  Say, something like the following:

<code><nowiki>
{{#if:{{{case|}}}|{{#ifeq:{{{case}}}|auto|{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{1}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{1}}}]] for evidence.|{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{1}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{1}}}]] for evidence and discussion.|Please refer to editing habits and [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]; [[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}}}|{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{case}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{case}}}]] for evidence.|{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{case}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{case}}}]] for evidence and discussion.|Please refer to editing habits and [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]; [[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}}}}}|Please refer to editing habits and [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]; [[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}</nowiki></code>

::::::Unless I missed a brackets close somewhere, this means that an optional third parameter named "case" can be passed.  If it says "auto", then your autolinking function kicks in using the first parameter--if it says something else, then your autolinking function tries with whatever else is passed.  It's not particularly elegant to look at, but I think that's the tradeoff for folding another template into this one. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 08:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::jonny-mt, you doubled the size without need. I can add a case parameter without too much of an increase in size. Let's try the following without having to have anything called auto.
<code><nowiki>
{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{case|{{{1}}}}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{{case|{{{1}}}}}}]] for evidence.|{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{case|{{{1}}}}}}|Please see [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/{{{case|{{{1}}}}}}]] for evidence and discussion.|Please refer to editing habits and [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]; [[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}}}}}|Please refer to editing habits and [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|contributions]]; [[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|this]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}
</nowiki></code>
:::::::Let me know if it works. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 19:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:{{noindent}} I've found a few minor problems (e.g., superfluous pipes and no closing "}}"), which I corrected in this very edit.  Best, —[[User:Animum|<b style="color:#002BB8">Animum</b>]] <small>([[User_talk:Animum|''talk'']])</small> 17:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:Also just a note that I asked Lady Aleena to help me combine many of our user warning related templates, and did unprotect the page for her to make the edits, so while the code is hers, the person responsible for the change (and any messups from it) is me. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 19:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
::Not at all--I think it's a good idea and will make admin and maintenance tasks that much easier.  The only thing I'm trying to do is make sure that the transition is as seamless as possible.

::To that end, I'm not sure that LA's code is quite there yet, although it's certainly an improvement.  Unless I'm reading it wrong, this still leaves in the autolinking (although it also allows for the use of a <code>case</code> variable to specify a different RFCU), but the only way to get the standard message to show up is to pass it a case name that doesn't--and won't ever--exist.  This means that while it is relatively easy to fix going forward, it still has the same effect on the already-placed templates.

::I guess what I'm trying to get at is that we need to require a way to turn the functionality ''on'' rather than require a way to turn it ''off''.  This was the thought behind introducing the <code>auto</code> switch, although I agree that the implementation is a little ungainly.  Any thoughts on an elegant way to implement this? --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 08:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Why would you want it to NOT connect to the case, if it exists? - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 15:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Sorry for the delayed response, but as I explained above, it is possible to block obvious sockpuppets of a checkusered puppeteer ''without requesting a checkuser''.  In fact, [[WP:RFCU]] states ''specifically'' that obvious socks will not be checked--it's the first item on the table marked "Unacceptable requests".  If we don't provide a way for the autolink to be switched on and off, a huge number of socks will be linked to checkuser cases that they are not even mentioned in, only serving to confuse anyone who might be looking at their userpage or reexamining their case. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 05:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::jonny-mt, I am going to say this one more time. The way the code is written; '''if there is no case, there will be no link'''. So, if there is NO checkuser case, there will be NO checkuser link. It will then look for a suspected sock puppet (ssp) case. If there is NO ssp case, there will be NO ssp link. At this point there will be a general message if there are NO checkuser or ssp cases. Understand? - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::Okay, I've tried (multiple times) to explain this as clearly as I possibly can, but apparently I've failed to explain my point.  So let's try a hypothetical situation.
::::::#[[User:Foo]] starts an edit war on, say, the article about [[cat]]s.  Halfway through the edit war, [[User:Bar]] shoes up to support [[User:Foo]]'s position and lob a few personal attacks at other editors, calling them "dog-loving fascists".
::::::#After examining the situation, an admin decides that the case warrants a checkuser, and so they file a request at [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Foo]].  The case comes back positive, and the admin blocks both [[User:Foo]] and [[User:Bar]] indefinitely for edit warring, personal attacks, and abusive sock puppetry.
::::::#About a week later, [[User:Snafu]] shows up and starts stirring the pot in the same article, reinstating the edits made by [[User:Foo]] and reverting anyone who challenges him with the edit summary "rv vandalism by dog-loving fascists".  The same admin, who has watchlisted the article, immediately blocks [[User:Snafu]] as an obvious sock of [[User:Foo]] and places this template on their user page for future reference.
::::::In this situation, although linking to the checkuser case at [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Foo]] for [[User:Bar]] would be helpful, there would be ''no reason'' to do so for [[User:Snafu]], as they were blocked as an obvious sock and did not require a checkuser.  Any admin with their salt would check out the situation before considering an unblock for [[User:Snafu]], but putting a link to a checkuser case in which they are not mentioned on their user page can only serve to confuse the situation and waste their time.  I think you can imagine how much hassle this creates in more complicated cases. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 13:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it was a result of this edit, but exactly 300 sockpuppet categories became empty within the last day or 2 and are now listed at [[Special:Unusedcategories]].  These will all be elligible for speedy deletion in 4 days if they remain empty, so if they should not be empty, and it was a result of this edit, then something needs to be fixed. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 17:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
:It seems this template does not process the variables in {{tl|Blockedsockpuppet}} correctly, so it and all redirects to it were broken.  I've gone back and reverted them for the time being and the categories appear to be refilling.  Could you let me know if any don't refill? '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 06:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, I'll let you know. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 18:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

:This template currently does not link to an RFCU page, even if one exists.  Obviously this seriously breaks {{tl|SockpuppetCheckuser}}.  I have reverted to the version before Lady Aleena's edits so that there is a working template until the issues are all ironed out.  [[User:Sam Korn|Sam Korn]] <sup>[[User talk:Sam Korn|(smoddy)]]</sup> 22:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== Haven't forgotten, just rethinking ==

I haven't forgotten this template, I have just been doing a rethink. When I am fully sure how I would like to see this proceed, I will either bring it back here or to the [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet|Sockpuppet]] page. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 23:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

==Editprotected==

{{tlx|editprotected}} It should say "this account", not "this user". After all, aren't sockpuppets usually used by just one user? [[User:Les Games|Les Games]] ([[User talk:Les Games|talk]]) 02:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hmm. I agree with you, but I'll leave this up in case it's a deliberate wordchoice. It might be a kind of AGF: saying that the account may or may not be the same user. [[User:Cool Hand Luke|Cool Hand]] ''[[User talk:Cool Hand Luke|Luke]]'' 15:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

::{{done}} - [[User:Rjd0060|Rjd0060]] ([[User talk:Rjd0060|talk]]) 03:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

{{tl|editprotected}} Still not done. It also has to be done on the "blocked" and "confirmed" versions. [[User:Les Games|Les Games]] ([[User talk:Les Games|talk]]) 07:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
:I hope it is done now - [[User:Nabla|Nabla]] ([[User talk:Nabla|talk]]) 15:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

== Had the sock puppet suspect on, but nothing else for about a year or so ==

{{tl|editprotected}}
Can you deleted the sock puppet suspect now please?

I imagine its from an IP tag - but no real details given
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EP --> I don't understand the request. - [[User:Rjd0060|Rjd0060]] ([[User talk:Rjd0060|talk]]) 16:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - was a terribly worded request.

Somehow my user ID - [[User:Hutch1970]] got flagged as a suspected Sock Puppet. However, I have been able to edit since, and while I haven't contributed much, I believe that I've shown that I'm my own user :)

So - could you please remove the suspected sock puppet code from my user page please? [[User:Hutch1970|Hutch1970]] ([[User talk:Hutch1970|talk]]) 16:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

::{{Fixed}}, user appears to have accidently transcluded the user page of a blocked sock (He typed<nowiki>{{User:En}}</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>{{User English}}</nowiki>). Nothing required here. [[User:Xymmax|<b>Xymmax</b>]] [[User_talk:Xymmax|<small><sup>So let it be written</sup></small>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xymmax|<small><sub>So let it be done</sub></small>]] 20:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

== Sock puppet links ==
{{tl|editprotected}}
Can an administrator add a "suspected sockpuppets" and a "confirmed sockpuppets" link next to "Account information:"? -- [[User:IRP|IRP]] [[User talk: IRP|☎]] 16:53, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:The template adds any page it is transcluded on to categories that do pretty much the same thing you are asking. I don't know if it is necessary to add links to theses categories on the template itself? [[User:J.delanoy|<span style="color:green;">J'''.'''delanoy</span>]][[User Talk:J.delanoy|<sup style="color:red;">gabs</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/J.delanoy|<sub style="color:blue;">adds</sub>]] 20:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
::I'm talking about a "suspected sockpuppets" link that links to [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets\<nowiki>{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki>]]. -- [[User:IRP|IRP]] [[User talk: IRP|☎]] 21:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Eh, I'm reluctant to make a unilateral change to such a widely used template. Perhaps someone else could comment here? [[User:J.delanoy|<span style="color:green;">J'''.'''delanoy</span>]][[User Talk:J.delanoy|<sup style="color:red;">gabs</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/J.delanoy|<sub style="color:blue;">adds</sub>]] 22:13, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:EP -->Pending further input.--[[User:Aervanath|Aervanath]] [[User talk:Aervanath|talks]] [[Special:Contributions/Aervanath|like]] a ''[[WP:RM|<b style="color:green;">mover</b>]]'', but not a shaker 17:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template overhaul planned ==

Similar to the combining of the Checked and non-checked Sockpuppeteer templates, we are seriously considering updating this template to be the sole sockpuppet template with appropriate options for handling proven, confirmed, blocked, checked, evidence, etc. Unlike the puppet'''eer''' template, however, this is more complicated as various unnamed parser functions were mapped to different variables in the puppet templates. As such, I have built a brand-new sockpuppet template, which can be seen at [[User:Avraham/Sandbox/SPOM]] and the performance of the template with its various options can be seen at [[User:Avraham/Sandbox/SPOMTest]]. We have had many discussions on [[WT:SPI]] about this, and we are relatively happy with the new template. All that is needed is for me to write out a complete mapping from all the old options to the new options (a subset can be seen here [[WT:SPI#New combined sockpuppet template]]) and for nix-eagle's but to get approval to go and change the 15,000 or so instances of the existing template. If there is anyone with a specific problem with the planned overhaul and collapse of the various templates into one, please speak up or forever hold your peace [[image:face-smile.svg|22px]] Thank you. -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] ([[User talk:Avraham|talk]]) 18:14, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Per [[bugzilla:20574]] I've requested MZMcBride to remove the unnecessary instances of <code><nowiki>{{ucfirst}}</nowiki></code>. The one that was required for category normalization was given a workaround so it doesn't start with a formatting character when the parameter does (per [[bugzilla:12974]]). --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 05:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

::The work-around appears to have broken the ucfirst.  See [[User:Tirid Tirid]] for an example.  If this change was made just to fix [[User:Ldjnfglkk]], then it should probably be reverted and that one userpage will simply be broken until the bugfix is integrated, rather than breaking all the rest.  --[[User:Pascal666|Pascal]]<sup>[[User talk:Pascal666|666]]</sup> 00:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

:::A parserfunction's output (such as ucfirst) cannot start with a line-formatting character like * or ; (and some other characters, which are not allowed in usernames), the specific broken example given was: [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:Ldjnfglkk&oldid=312895070&action=edit <nowiki>{{sockpuppet|1=;sfdjngkjfnd}}</nowiki>]. The previous behavior was very broken for usernames starting with a semicolon or asterisk, introducing a <nowiki><dl><dt> or <ul><li></nowiki> set, along with linefeeds, inside the link and category tags. I am not sure of a perfect solution, unfortunately. However, one can simply enter the case correctly, no? --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 04:11, 20 September 2009 (UTC)  <small>''watching page, no talkback needed''</small>

::::Nice, you [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Sockpuppet&diff=315039141&oldid=315039082 changed] your comment after I posted. The page given, as well as any usernames starting with such formatting characters, cannot be used at all in the older version, the current version can be used (in theory) with all usernames, if the case is just given properly. But hey, do what you want, I was just trying to suggest and implement a fix. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 04:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

:::::That was weird, it didn't give me an edit conflict.  Since the work-around did not work, the ucfirst should probably be removed entirely unless you have a better idea.  I agree passing the template the correct username would be ideal, unfortunately that often does not happen.  The only reason I found your fix was because it moved so many pages into non-existing categories.  I wonder if there is a fast way (using AWB or something) of fixing them all.  I've included below the list of those that need to be fixed.  Looks like about 150 or so.  --[[User:Pascal666|Pascal]]<sup>[[User talk:Pascal666|666]]</sup> 05:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"
!Pages to be fixed
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:Kurkleson|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of aabgh|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Aabgh}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of albinofawn}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of albinofawn]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Albinofawn]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ararat arev}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ararat arev]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ararat arev]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of babylon93}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of babylon93]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Babylon93]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Sycorax13|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of barryispuzzled|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Barryispuzzled}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Red37|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of billhits|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Billhits}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of bluemarine}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of bluemarine]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Bluemarine]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of cartiman}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of cartiman]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Cartiman]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:ComedytheoremJR|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of comtheo|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Comtheo}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Cowboycaleb558|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of cowboycaleb1|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Cowboycaleb1}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:TheThingsICareAbout|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of cplot|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Cplot}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:DAde|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of daniel3|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Daniel3}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of danwat1234}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of danwat1234]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Danwat1234]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:ImpeachMyShorts|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of davidYork71|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of DavidYork71}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:OneJustMan|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of davkal|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Davkal}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of editorhwaller}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of editorhwaller]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Editorhwaller]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:Tanstaffl|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of eleemosynary|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Eleemosynary}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Fan613|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of evidence-based|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Evidence-based}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Ghostseattoast11|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ghostseattoast10|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ghostseattoast10}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of graham Heavy}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of graham Heavy]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Graham Heavy]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:12.72.72.208|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of grazon|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Grazon}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of griot}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of griot]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Griot]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:59.152.98.158|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of hatashe|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Hatashe}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Self-Adjoint|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of hermitian|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Hermitian}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of hiderek1}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of hiderek1]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Hiderek1]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Hyper nell bomber|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of hinomaru|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Hinomaru}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of iamandrewrice}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of iamandrewrice]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Iamandrewrice]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:JagMaster|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of jagzthebest|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Jagzthebest}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:116.68.96.5|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of jobxavier|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Jobxavier}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:207.67.145.171|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of joehazelton|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Joehazelton}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of karmaisking}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of karmaisking]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Karmaisking]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:72.95.171.242|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of kdkatpir2|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Kdkatpir2}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of kuntan}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of kuntan]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Kuntan]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:Labelphone|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of lardland|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Lardland}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Light current Bobabobabo|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of light current|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Light current}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:Sabbath bloody sabbath|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ln of x|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ln of x}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Dialga06|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of meganium|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Meganium}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of melissadolbeer}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of melissadolbeer]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Melissadolbeer]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of noobhunter}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of noobhunter]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Noobhunter]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ockenbock}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ockenbock]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ockenbock]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of pioneercourthouse}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of pioneercourthouse]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Pioneercourthouse]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of pionier}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of pionier]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Pionier]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Jimmknows|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of plyjacks|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Plyjacks}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Adam4eve310|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of pornlvr|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Pornlvr}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:Sumitrahumanist|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of rationalistbiplab|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Rationalistbiplab}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of rms125a@hotmail.com}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of rms125a@hotmail.com]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Rms125a@hotmail.com]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of robertjkoenig}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of robertjkoenig]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Robertjkoenig]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of rootology}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of rootology]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Rootology]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:88.9.53.4|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of satesclop|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Satesclop}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of scibaby}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of scibaby]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Scibaby]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User talk:131.104.139.173|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of serafin|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Serafin}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:O0oO0oO0oO0oO0oO0oO0oO0o|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of sollog|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Sollog}}
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of spinoza1111}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of spinoza1111]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Spinoza1111]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of surajsamant}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of surajsamant]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Surajsamant]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of tbuckingham}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of tbuckingham]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Tbuckingham]]
|-
|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of the Australian politics vandal}}||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of the Australian politics vandal]]||[[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of The Australian politics vandal]]
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:Aceliner|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of thewolfstar|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Thewolfstar}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:63.192.11.254|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of times-standard|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Times-standard}}
{{User:Pascal666/wanted|User:71.202.85.163|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of vigilant|Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Vigilant}}
|}

::::::Ouch, tho, could be worse! --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:02, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

:::::::Actually, I should clarify that.  The above list is only of pages that were in a valid category before the template changes, and are now not.  It is not a complete list of every page that calls the template with a lowercase username.  --[[User:Pascal666|Pascal]]<sup>[[User talk:Pascal666|666]]</sup> 23:41, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
==That last sentence==
<code><nowiki><br />[[WP:SOCK#Identification and handling of inappropriate alternative accounts|This]] policy subsection may also be helpful.}}</nowiki></code><br>
Since the section linked to no longer exists, the link just takes readers to the TOP of WP:SOCK.  Either this sentence should be deleted or a different and extant section of WP:SOCK linked to, right?<br>
&nbsp;&mdash; &nbsp;<b>[[User:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color:darkblue;">Paine's</span>]]</b>&nbsp;<b>[[User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color:blue;">Climax</span>]]</b>&nbsp; 09:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
:{{tlx|editprotected}} Please replace the live version with the [[Template:Sockpuppet/sandbox|sandbox]] version of this template.  The only change is the sentence that reads, "<nowiki>[[</nowiki>Wikipedia:SOCK#Handling suspected sock puppets|This]] policy subsection may also be helpful."  The live version's "This" link is a dead link to a non-existing section of WP:SOCK.  So I have replaced it with "#Handling suspected sock puppets" section from the WP:SOCK policy.  Thank you very much!<br>
&nbsp;&mdash; &nbsp;[[User:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color: darkblue; font-size:small; font-family:Ariel">Ellsworth's</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color: blue; font-family:Ariel">Climax</span>]]&nbsp; 04:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::{{done}} &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 18:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

:::Once again, thank you very much, Martin! and <b><span style="color: green; font-family:Verdana">H<small>APPY</small> <span style="color: bronze">H<small>OLIDAYS</small>!</span></span></b>
:::&nbsp;&mdash; &nbsp;[[User:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color: darkblue; font-size:small; font-family:Ariel">Ellsworth's</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth|<span style="color: blue; font-family:Ariel">Climax</span>]]&nbsp; 20:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
==Request==
Could this: "and/or any [[WP:SPI|sockpuppetry investigations]]..." be fixed to "or the [[WP:SPI|sockpuppet investigation]] of the sockpuppeteer..." I know that the suggestion might not work, but adding a link to the SP/I of the suspected sockpuppeteer would be useful to anyone who would be looking for adding the user to the casepage. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 20:41, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:I've changed the wording as you requested. A link to the SPI could probabily be implemented. What is the format of this page? Is it always [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/USERNAME/Archive]]? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
::They are usually archived into the system after they are closed, so the archive thing would lead to many dead links. I assume you could write it to automatically link to the SPI while writing in the username once. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 21:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
:::So you mean we should link to [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/USERNAME]]? I could add a check for whether this page exists or not. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Yeah, because it would provide a quick link to the SPI page, without having to do some clicking. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 16:15, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::Can you check if it's working correctly? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 17:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::It works swell. Thanks for the help there. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 20:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

So apparently that edit did work, for a few days, but I've noticed that this doesn't link to the SPI of the master. Also, does anyone think that having the main sockpuppet category is rather redundant as there is already a subcategory that will show up? I would support removing it as it will likely clean out most of the category of repeat listings. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 22:28, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
:#Could you show me an example where it's not working?
:#Just to clarify: are you proposing to stop populating [[:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets]]?
:&mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
::Well when you click on a user page, it used to link to the SPI of the master, but now it seems to just go to the SPI page. Yes I am proposing to stop populating it as just tagging a user with a category and not knowing who controls them seems a bit silly. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 16:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I've removed that category. Again, please can you give me a specific page where it is not working correctly? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. Unless something is off on my end, I can't directly link to the SPI of the user in question. If you can do it, then I'll drop it, but it's a bit weird. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 05:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Again, I asked for an ''example'' of where it wasn't working. Typing {{tlx|sockpuppet|Example2}} gives
{{sockpuppet|Example2|cat=}}
:::::which does seem to link to the SPI. (I've got this page watchlisted so you don't need to keep using {{tl|editprotected}}.) &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::Hmm, works now. Maybe I'm just going crazy. I might as well suggest this here while I can. Is there any way to fix "the [[sockpuppet investigation... to [[the sockpuppet investigation?" It makes more sense and implies that it is linking to a specific incident, not the general page. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 23:51, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Block length ==
Cirt brought up a good point on my talk page and it gave me an idea. I know that we have a parameter in the confirmed sock template for a block that is a certain length. I have recently observed a time period block on a suspected sock which later ended up being confirmed and I was wondering if a parameter could be added to this one that would allow a block length to be acknowledged on the template since the only block acknowledgement here is an indefinite block. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 01:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
:I have added a {{para|length}} parameter. For example <nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Example2|blocked|length=2 months}}</nowiki> produces:
{{sockpuppet|Example2|blocked|length=2 months|cat=}}
:Let me know what you think. If that's okay, would you mind adding it to the documentation? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::That definitely works. I was thinking of more of something which stated that they were just blocked for a determined length of time but that works much better. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 17:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, it won't work will it? It will be instantly out of date. The only way to do it would be to add an expiry date. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 18:15, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::::The instantly out of date thing could just say that they are blocked for X amount of time, something which would indicate that they aren't blocked for a week or 20 years. We could always try this. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 22:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC):
{{sockpuppet|Example2|blocked|length=until June 13, 2011|cat=}}
::::Also, you might want to add the length parameter to the documentation page. [[User:Ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 03:36, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Editprotected request involving this template ==

This message is to inform people monitoring this talk page that there is an "editprotected" request involving this and several other templates at [[Template talk:!#Edit request from Cymru.lass, 28 December 2010|Template talk:!]] [[User:Cymru.lass|cymru.lass]] <sup>[[User talk:Cymru.lass|(hit me up)]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass|(background check)]]</sub> 20:46, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Issue ==

Hello! If a sockpuppet's username starts with a wiki syntax (such as *, #, :, etc), the links to the account's block log, contributions and log are messed up. Is there a way to fix this problem? [[User:Heymid|<span style="color:green;">Hey</span>]][[User talk:Heymid|<span style="color:red;">'''''Mid'''''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Heymid|contribs]]) 15:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Edit requests ==
{{tlx|editrequested}}

1: Change the link from the expired "eagle" autoblock finder to http://toolserver.org/~nakon/autoblockfinder.php?u=

2: Also, perform {{free diff|409783634|381969151|this edit}}, which fixes links for usernames that start with an asterisk (*). [[User:Heymid|<span style="color:green;">Hey</span>]][[User talk:Heymid|<span style="color:red;">'''''Mid'''''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Heymid|contribs]]) 16:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

::{{done}}&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Tivedshambo|<span style="color:#7F0000">'''&nbsp;Tivedshambo&nbsp;'''</span>]]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Tivedshambo|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tivedshambo|c]]) 17:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
:::For Special:Contributions, urlencoding caused spaces in a username to become plus signs, thus breaking the link. I've removed it, as spaces in usernames are far more common than usernames beginning with asterisks. If there is a better solution, please suggest it. Thanks —[[User:DoRD|DoRD]] ([[User talk:DoRD|talk]]) 03:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Edit request from KuduIO, 17 September 2011 ==

{{FPER|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
For the confirmed option, the text should be changed to:

This account has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|'''blocked indefinitely''']] because [[Wikipedia:CheckUser|CheckUser]] confirms it is a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] of <nowiki>{{{2}}}</nowiki>.

It's more in line with {{tl|sockpuppeteer}}.
<!-- End request -->
— <span style="font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif;">[[User:KuduIO|<span style="color: blue;">Kudu</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:KuduIO|<sup><span style="color: blue;">~I/O~</span></sup>]]</span> 17:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:EP -->. Could you make your proposed changes on the [[Template:Sockpuppet/sandbox|/sandbox]] and fully test it? It seems to be {{{1}}} not {{{2}}}. Also, there is a length parameter which should probably be preserved. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Edit request from , 4 November 2011 ==

{{FPER|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
Is this okay to replace from

"'''This account is a sock puppet of Example and has been blocked indefinitely.'''"
to "'''This account is a confirmed sock puppet of Example and has been blocked indefinitely.'''"
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Katarighe|Katarighe]] ([[User talk:Katarighe|talk]]) 00:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
: [[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit protected}} template.<!-- Template:EP --> [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 23:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Explicit noindex ==
{{FPER|answered=yes}}
Question;  all pages in the user namespace are [[WP:NOINDEX|noindex]] by default - that is they are marked as not suitable for search engines to index and so won't normally show up in Google/Baidu/yahoo etc.  Currently, this template explicit sets pages to be noindex.  The intent of this could be taken to be that, were the site-wide setting for userpages be changed, user-pages including this template would continue to be hidden from search engines.  If it's not simple an oversight, this seems to be a slightly off-policy sweeping of our dirt under the carpet.

Suggest that we remove the offending clause?  - [[User:Topbanana|TB]] ([[User talk:Topbanana|talk]]) 10:06, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

: There being a general lack of interest and a specific lack of objection, I've gone ahead and made this change.  - [[User:Topbanana|TB]] ([[User talk:Topbanana|talk]]) 22:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

:: Please reinsert the NOINDEX; McCrory added it for privacy reasons. -- [[Special:Contributions/92.13.59.67|92.13.59.67]] ([[User talk:92.13.59.67|talk]]) 10:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

::: The intention behind [[User:Fran McCrory|Fran McCrory]]'s [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3ASockpuppet&diff=prev&oldid=228722228 addition of the <nowiki>__NOINDEX__</nowiki> tag] to this template was to request that search-engines not report pages containing it.  As all pages in the user and user talk namespaces have this property by default (see [http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt]), it serves no purpose. - [[User:Topbanana|TB]] ([[User talk:Topbanana|talk]]) 11:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
::::I am restoring the <nowiki>__NOINDEX__</nowiki> flag since all pages in userspace (but not user talk space) are indexed by default. Note the lines where it says:
<pre>
'enwiki' => array(
	NS_USER_TALK => 'noindex,follow',
),
</pre>
::::[[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 12:00, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Problems in the template ==

I see what appear to be some possible problems in the template source code.

*The documentation talks about a '''suspected''' parameter (supposed to be equivalent to '''spi'''), but I don't see anything in the template that actually handles '''suspected''' — it appears, in fact, to be treated by default as if the second positional parameter were not specified.

*There seem to be problems with the categorization code.  Anything other than '''confirmed''' is being categorized by default in ''Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets ...'' — including parameter values like '''proven''' or '''nbconfirmed'''.  See, for example, [[User:Dacarodjos]], which has been checkuser-confirmed ('''nbconfirmed''') but is currently categorized by the template as ''Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Gluvmal''.

*I'm confused by the use of '''ucfirst''' in the following part of the code:  '''<nowiki>Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of{{ucfirst:&amp;#32;{{{1}}}}}</nowiki>'''   Is this still necessary?  Or is it left over from an apparent workaround attempt in 2009 (see "Template overhaul planned" section above)?

I would also like to see the "Suspected" sock category group split in two — so that "suspected but not yet blocked/confirmed" socks can be easily distinguished from "blocked on behavioural evidence" socks.  Possibly categorize the first (not yet investigated) group as "Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets" or "Possible Wikipedia sockpuppets", and the second group as "Presumed Wikipedia sockpuppets".  I believe this would make it easier to identify sock tags that are new and which should be looked into ASAP — whether for blocking (per behavioural or checkuser evidence), or to have the tag removed if the sock suspicion turns out to be groundless.  Comments?  — [[User:Richwales|<u>Rich</u>]][[User talk:Richwales|wales]] 06:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

::Almost 4 months later, and I'm still seeing this problem with the "nbconfirmed" parameter -- it incorrectly places the sock into the "suspected sockpuppets of" category rather than the "sockpuppets of" category, which is where a checkuser-confirmed sock belongs. That looks like a simple coding error; I would recode it, but I don't know how. 
::Also, I agree that it would be desirable to have slightly different treatment for several additional subtypes of socks. I see the following subtypes:
::*Suspected but not blocked
::*Suspected and blocked
::*Blocked and considered confirmed based on behavioral evidence
::*Blocked based on checkuser confirmation
::For the record, I consider "confirmed based on behavioral evidence" to be a valid characterization because I have identified (and blocked) some socks after they created new pages that were identical to previously deleted pages created by earlier sockpuppets. I consider that to be confirmatory evidence. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 18:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

:::Seems like the problem still exists. "Proven" adds a user to category "Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of ...", but "confirmed" adds he or she to category "Wikipedia sockpuppets of ...". [[User talk:Ryūkotsusei|'''<span style="color: #666666">«&nbsp;Ryūkotsusei&nbsp;»</span>''']] 05:08, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Attribution ==
:{{small|'''''Note''': Moved to [[Wikipedia talk:Sockpuppet investigations/Archives/Archive12#Attribution]] —[[User:DoRD|DoRD]] ([[User talk:DoRD|talk]]) 13:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)''}}

{{Clear}}
== Image used in template ==
{{discussion top}}
{{consensus|consensus in all these discussions clearly favors the "puppeteer" graphic that has long been in use. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 18:43, 6 May 2013 (UTC)}}
{{FPER|answered=yes}}

The good ol' [[:File:Puppeter template.svg]] has been replaced with a blue info circle. I disagree with this, and left a message here: [[User talk:Reaper Eternal/Archive 21#Sockpuppet templates]]. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 19:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
:The user doesn't answer, and I can't edit this page myself. So I guess I'll try [[Template:Edit protected|an edit request]]. The image in question can be brought back by inserting this: <code><nowiki>|image = [[File:{{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|confirmed|Puppeter template|System-users}}.svg|45px]]</nowiki></code> – <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 19:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
::[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EP --> I imagine Reaper has a good reason for his edit, and I think we should probably discuss that reason before doing anything else. I would wait a bit longer for a reply on his talk page - it's only been a day, after all - and if that doesn't provide any closure then I recommend opening up the debate to outside editors. Perhaps an RfC here would be the best way to do that, but I'll leave that part up to you. Best — '''''[[User:Mr. Stradivarius|<span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius</span>]]''''' <sup>[[User talk:Mr. Stradivarius|♪ talk ♪]]</sup> 02:13, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
:::That would be a pretty awkward thing to do, but if you insist. I wonder if someone bothers to respond... - <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 10:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

===Tiny RfC===
A few days ago, [[User:Reaper Eternal]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet&diff=546718817 altered] [[Template:Sockpuppet]] and among other things removed the [[:File:Puppeter template.svg|puppeteer picture]], which causes the template to display the default [[:File:Imbox notice.png|blue dot image]]. I think this is rather ugly, so me and another user asked him to put it back ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal/Archive 21#Sockpuppet templates|now archived]]). After getting no response I summoned an admin to do it, who refused. Meanwhile, I discovered that Reaper Eternal also changed [[Template:Sockpuppeteer]],[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppeteer&diff=546716850] as well as [[Template:Banned user]][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3ABanned_user&diff=529851561&oldid=511528728] and [[Template:Blocked user]][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Blocked_user&diff=546721026&oldid=511528798] last December.

I know this isn't exactly the most important RfC ever, and I'm wondering if we can't just restore the image and forget about this. Then again, the Sockpuppet and Sockpuppeteer templates are used on ten-thousands of pages. Blocked and Banned user are also frequently applied. So if someone happens to disagree with the new designs... go ahead and say. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 10:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:I commented on this at Reaper's user talk page but for the record I'm going to repeat my suggestion over here. Even if the old icon is undesired for some reason, I still think we should have a quick visual identification for the three stages "suspect", "blocked", and "confirmed". So I suggest we add a switch like <code><nowiki>|image=[[File:{{#switch:{{{2}}}|case=blocked|result=Stop x nuvola|case=confirmed|result=Sock block|Information icon4}}.svg|45px]]</nowiki></code>. This will show the blue info dot for suspected sockpuppets, for unconfirmed but blocked accounts there would be [[:File:Stop x nuvola.svg]] and confirmed sockpuppets should be tagged with [[:File:Sock block.svg]]. That way the problem would quickly become obvious for the visiting admins. And after all, I don't think that the old sockmaster icon was purporting anything evil or negative as Reaper argued in his edit summaries. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 17:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

::He, thanks! Good suggestion about those pictures, but I'm afraid I don't agree with it. I don't think the blue dot should be used. My idea: [[:File:System-users.svg]] = '''suspected''', [[:File:Puppeter template.svg]] = '''confirmed'''.<br />I do agree with you that none of the pictures insinuate something 'evil' or anything. They're whimsy drawings, meant for easy identification. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 17:44, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
:::For this purpose, I definitely prefer the "sockpuppet" icons over the "i for information" icon. The purpose of these images is to quickly communicate, but the "i" icon is used in so many places that it isn't effective for quickly communicating that a particular user has a sockpuppetry issue. I agree with Face regarding the choice of pictures. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 19:36, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
::::RfC bot invited me, so I don't know a lot about this issue. However, I agree with Des' compromise. [[User:I dream of horses|I dream of horses]] ([[User talk:I dream of horses|T]]) @  22:49, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
::::I just wanted to come back and say that Mr. Stradivarius for having us gain consensus before reverting Reapers' edit. It's the best way to have the edit "stick". [[User:I dream of horses|I dream of horses]] ([[User talk:I dream of horses|T]]) @  22:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::@I dream of horses: Assuming that with 'Des' you meant User:De728631, his compromis is as follows:<br />'''suspected''' = [[:File:Imbox notice.png]], '''blocked''' = [[:File:Stop x nuvola.svg]], and '''confirmed''' = [[:File:Sock block.svg]].<br />I think this system is unlogical because sockpuppets are almost always blocked, even if dormant or suspected, as the majority of socks are used to troll/vandalize. There are of course also socks who try to come over as the good user. If Checkuser or other Wikipedians can't find evidence against them, technical or behavioural, the template can't be used anyway, as the sock won't allow such a tag to be put on their userpage. Furthermore, I think [[:File:Stop x nuvola.svg]] and [[:File:Imbox notice.png]] are uninformative in this situation and not appropriate. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 09:14, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::Sockpuppets are not blocked unless an admin is convinced that this need to be done. So for the simple tagging of suspected sockpuppets by a random editor, we could really use the info circle since the template message is really just a piece of information at this stage. And this is also useful for tagging IPs that will be unblocked after a short time anyway. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 21:32, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Uh, what? Per policy, socking [[WP:SOCK|is likely to lead to a block of all affected accounts]]. I edit in topic areas rife with sockpuppetry, and I can attest to the fact that even throwaway accounts that make one or two edits before being abandoned are blocked all the same. So no, "sockpuppets are not blocked unless an admin is convinced this needs to be done" is not a realistic statement.
:::::::"Simple tagging" of accounts by "random" editors is not a normative practice here by any means. The policy page ''explicitly'' directs users who would like suspected sockpuppetry to be investigated to go to [[WP:SPI]]. Accounts are generally tagged ''only after'' being linked by investigation. In fact, dumping such a tag on a userpage before the conclusion of such an investigation would likely be considered a serious civility breach and assumption of bad faith. ~~ [[User:Lothar von Richthofen|Lothar von Richthofen]] ([[User talk:Lothar von Richthofen|talk]]) 00:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

*'''Support puppeteer graphic''' I have no comment about reforming the template, but in the case of any user who has been through community process and been found to be a sock, I support the use of the puppeteer graphic in their notice box and am against the use of the blue dot. This should be changed back immediately unless there is some consensus to change this. [[User:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">''' Blue Rasberry '''</span>]][[User talk:Bluerasberry|<span style="cursor:help"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span></span>]] 20:49, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
**So at this stage we all seem to agree that the current design using only the blue dot is inferior to the previous version. Regardless of any step-wise escalation of icons, I agree with BR that the recent image changes by Reaper Eternal should be undone as a first step. We can then still discuss whether a switch is useful for this template and related ones. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 21:10, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
***That may not be necessary. I think the current design is actually better than the previous. It's more concise, and it fits with {{tl|Sockpuppeteer}} and {{tl|Banned user}}, often used in conjunction. But it was the choice of images I disagreed upon. - <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 09:19, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
****By 'design' I was also referring to the image. I think the current text is alright and doesn't need to be changed, but we should get rid of the blue dot as the only icon. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 16:21, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
*****Ah, I get it now! Yes, I agree. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 08:04, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

*'''Support puppeteer graphic'''. The blue dot is dumbed down to the point of meaninglessness. I recall similar discussions in which it was proposed that we replace the nuvola-stop-sign icon in the {{tl|banned}} template with the same milquetoast-y icon because a stop sign is "too threatening"—what, do you soil yourself every time you come to a road intersection? Silly. When an account is conclusively found to be involved in sockpuppetry, we should make that plain and clear. Pussyfooting around it is of as much help as placing flashing lights and blaring sirens on it. ~~ [[User:Lothar von Richthofen|Lothar von Richthofen]] ([[User talk:Lothar von Richthofen|talk]]) 16:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
**Lol, can't say I disagree with that. Speaking of [[Template:Banned user]], Reaper Eternal also changed the picture on that one, making it very small, apparently to lessen its 'impact'. I think the size should be restored to how it was. Same goes for [[Template:Blocked user]]. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 13:39, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

{{FPER|answered=yes}}
Regarding the RFC it seems to me that we have a consensus to revert the changes to the icons made by Reaper Eternal. I therefore request that [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet&oldid=543072595 this version] of the template be restored, but please add <nowiki>__NOINDEX__</nowiki> too (see discussion above). I could do that myself but I feel too [[WP:INVOLVED]]. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:I agree with you. I would also like to see a similar change to {{tl|Sockpuppeteer}} (see also [[Template talk:Sockpuppeteer#Icon|talk page]]). Furthermore, I request that {{tl|Banned user}} is tweaked in such a way that it fits with {{tl|Sockpuppeteer}}, as the two are often used right next to each other. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 15:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with the above.&nbsp;[[User:HueSatLum|Hue]][[User talk:HueSatLum#top|Sat]][[Special:Contributions/HueSatLum|Lum]] 19:27, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

*'''Support puppeteer graphic''' No need to do lovely and polite against a cheater. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 23:43, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

{{done}} [[User:King of Hearts|King of]] [[User:King of Hearts|<span style="color:red;">&hearts;</span>]] [[User talk:King of Hearts|<span style="color:red;">&diams;</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/King of Hearts|<span style="color:black;">&clubs;</span>]] ♠ 09:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

===Reopening RfC===
I find it extremely odd that a template change with site-wide effects was decided with a grand total of, if I'm counting right, nine participants. Perhaps that was a side effect of it being listed as a "style" issue. Either way, it was poorly-advertised. I'm relisting it as a policy RfC (seeing as it derives from implementation of policy) and adding it to {{tl|centralized discussion}}. Since I'm doing that I'll not state any opinion on the matter. — [[User:Scott Martin|'''<span style="color:#000">Scott</span>''']] <span style="color:#900">•</span> [[User talk:Scott Martin|''<span style="color:#000">talk</span>'']] 11:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

{{tl|rfc|policy|rfcid=9410C14}}
* '''Question: Should the sockpuppet templates use the puppeteer graphic, another graphic, or no graphic?'''
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' per the previous consensus.  I don't understand why this issue is significant enough to be listed on centralised discussion.—[[User:S Marshall|<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:maroon;">'''S Marshall'''</span>]] <small>[[User talk:S Marshall|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/S Marshall|C]]</small> 12:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
*Why does the graphic matter? Surely the wording is more important. And on that subject, [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3ASockpuppeteer&diff=551602540&oldid=546716850 this revert] at {{tl|Sockpuppeteer}} restores the "abusively used" wording, from the softer "inappropriately used", even though the discussion was (AFAIK) solely about the graphic. [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] <sup>[[user talk:rd232|talk]]</sup> 14:09, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
*:I did not notice that change when I made the revert. If others think this is a good idea, then I can change "abusive" to "inappropriate" again. -- [[User:King of Hearts|King of]] [[User:King of Hearts|<span style="color:red;">&hearts;</span>]] [[User talk:King of Hearts|<span style="color:red;">&diams;</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/King of Hearts|<span style="color:black;">&clubs;</span>]] ♠ 19:44, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
* '''Puppeteer graphic''' assuming that is what we see in the templates above. That looks fine. [[User:Carrite|Carrite]] ([[User talk:Carrite|talk]]) 15:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
*Actually there has been no net change at all since the previous RFC restored the long-standing template versions before the unilaterally imposed change by Reaper Eternal. If at all, an RFC should have been held before he made his changes. That said, I don't see any need either to have this at centralised discussions. And I'm all for keeping the current graphics. Carrite, what you see above is [[:File:System-users.svg]], while the puppeteer looks like this: [[File:Puppeter template.svg|40px]]. As you can see from the template documentation there is a distinction between suspected and proven socks. Only the proven accounts will get the puppeteer icon with the sock puppet on a string. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 15:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Another graphic''' I think the wording of the sock-puppeteer tag is the more central issue, but it should be noted that an arbitrator seemed to have [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet&diff=548739669&oldid=546719891 no issue] with the image change either. When all that exists on the userpage is a tag with a statement there is no compelling need for a specific image. The current graphic does have certain negative connotations to it. No need exists for using it and just because someone has engaged in sock-puppetry does not mean that person should be shamed forever on Wikipedia.--[[User:The Devil's Advocate|<span style="color: vermillion">'''The Devil's Advocate'''</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:The Devil's Advocate|<span style="color: burntorange">tlk.</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/The Devil's Advocate|<span style="color:red;">cntrb.</span>]]</sub> 19:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
::The purpose of the image is not to make the owner of an account be ashamed. Instead it should serve the purpose of quickly identifying the reason for having been tagged or even blocked. A descriptive icon will be much more informative than a simple information dot. With an icon lock the sockpuppeteer or the "user group" you don't have to read the text to know that there's a serious issue with this account. That's what icons are meant to be used for. Otherwise we even use a text-only tag. But these arguments have already been made above. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 21:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Restore Reaper Eternal's versions''', using exclamation mark and softer wording. (By the way – please keep this at Cent, because this is where I just saw it.) [[User:Jayen466|Andreas]] <small>[[User_Talk:Jayen466|<span style="color:#FFBF00;">JN</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jayen466|466]]</small> 01:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic'''; I don't see a compelling reason to change. The [[badge of shame]] argument does not persuade me as there is no argument as to why the other icon is any less "shameful", nor as to why the labels "sockpuppet" and "sockpuppeteer" themselves are not the issue. Considering particularly that the puppeteer graphic is '''not''' used unless the account is marked as confirmed, I cannot see a problem here. &mdash;/[[User:Mendaliv|<b>M</b><small>endaliv</small>]]/<sup><small>[[User talk:Mendaliv|2¢]]</small></sup>/<sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/Mendaliv|Δ's]]</small></sub>/ 06:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' -- arguments about shame are not persuasive, given use of the template only when confirmed.  The graphic performs a useful function.  [[User:Nomoskedasticity|Nomoskedasticity]] ([[User talk:Nomoskedasticity|talk]]) 09:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Do the following:'''
**Revert [[Template:Sockpuppet]] and [[Template:Sockpuppeteer]] to Reaper Eternal's versions, which I prefer over the old ones. However, both should ''not'' use the awkward blue dot icon, but [[:File:System-users.svg]] and [[:File:Puppeter template.svg]]. This is what I originally wanted when I opened the first RfC. I agree with King of Hearts that "inappropriately used" from Reaper Eternal's version is a much more civil wording than "abusively used".
**Keep Reaper Eternal versions of [[Template:Banned user]] and [[Template:Blocked user]], but tweak in such a way that they resemble each other and the Sockpuppet and Sockpuppeteer tags. In particular, they should have a similar layout and the [[:File:Stop x nuvola.svg]] icon should be slightly bigger.
:In short: I support the versions of Reaper Eternal, support '''Puppeteer graphic''', and the tweaking of the Blocked and Banned tags.<br />I'm glad that this discussion has some more input now. Perhaps I should have put it at [[WP:CENT|CENT]] in the first place, but I initially considered it too insignificant. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 12:45, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' — What I meant above. <small>(clarification: I prefer the currently used graphic(s)).&nbsp;[[User:HueSatLum|Hue]][[User talk:HueSatLum#top|Sat]][[Special:Contributions/HueSatLum|Lum]] 17:12, 28 April 2013 (UTC)</small>&nbsp;[[User:HueSatLum|Hue]][[User talk:HueSatLum#top|Sat]][[Special:Contributions/HueSatLum|Lum]] 17:09, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Replace''' with graphic showing an actual [[Sock puppet]] reather than a [[Marionette]]. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 22:38, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic'''.  As De728631 says, the point of having this is to make the template understandable at a glance.  We should use the same icon or group of icons for all templates that are meant to be placed on userpages in reference to abusive sockpuppetry, whether as uncertain as "This user might be a sock" or as certain as "Checkusers have confirmed that this is a sock".  I like the longstanding image simply because it's longstanding, as a change will mean that it takes a little longer to figure out what's meant, but I'll not outright oppose proposals like NebY makes.  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 23:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' I don't see why a choice of graphic here should necessitate an RfC. The puppeteer graphic looks better. That will be all. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;<span name="TortoiseWrath">[[User:TortoiseWrath|<span style="color:#666 !important;">TORTOISE</span>]][[User talk:TortoiseWrath|<span style="color:#600">WRATH</span>]]</span> 16:20, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' unless someone presents a better alternative here (and not just a hypothetical one). [[User:Lukeno94|<span style="color:navy;">Luke</span><span style="color:FireBrick;">no</span><span style="color:green;">94</span>]] [[User talk:Lukeno94#top|<i>(tell Luke off here)</i>]] 20:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' As a former SPI trainee, I see no compelling reason for the change, and it makes it very easy to identify socks when looking at blocked accounts on the fly. [[User:Sven Manguard|<span style="color:#207004;">'''<big>S</big>ven <big>M</big>anguard'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sven Manguard|<small><span style="color:#F0A804;">'''Wha?'''</span></small>]] 22:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' per Lukeno94's reasoning. [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 04:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' for its distinctive characteristics per above. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;">Imzadi&nbsp;1979</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;"><big>→</big></span>]]'''</span>  08:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
:I honestly don't care too much what graphic is used. (Personally, I'd prefer no text and no image&mdash;just a simple hidden category&mdash;but I understand that some people need a visual reminder of why somebody was blocked.) The troll sockpuppeteers want big, flashy banners to show off their "score", hence the reason for [[WP:DENY]]. Others, who maybe just got frustrated with Wikipedia's policies and made a sock, don't want the rather blatant public shaming that the now-current version of tag gives and would rather get on with their lives.
:<u>However</u>, the term "abuse" should only be applies to the troll sockpuppeteers. While many of the sockmasters are trolls, this is unfair to those who did things more like evading a ban to make constructive edits. Thus, I support the milder wording of "inappropriate use" of multiple accounts.
:Finally, {{user|King of Hearts}}, your reverts to the template have removed the <nowiki>__NOINDEX__</nowiki> magic word, allowing these "name & shame" userpages back onto Google's index. As I explained [[#Explicit noindex|before]] on this very page, userspace <u>is not</u> [http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt hidden] from indexing on enwiki. [[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 13:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
::He must've missed my explicit request to add the noindex tag [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Sockpuppet&diff=551294262&oldid=549930620]. That said, I'm fine with rewording the template as long as we keep using indicative icons. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 15:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
:::I've restored the <nowiki>__NOINDEX__</nowiki> magic word, which should never have been removed. [[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 18:38, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' It ain't broke. --[[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 21:46, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''[[The Godfather]] Logo''' --  I mean '''Puppeteer graphic'''. It makes it clear very quickly that the user is a confirmed sock. I'm all for keeping the system-users for the suspected sock as well. [[User:Valley2city|<b style="background:blue; color:white; font-family:Comic Sans MS;">Valley</b>]]2[[User talk:Valley2city|<b><span style="background: skyblue; color:white;">city</span></b><sup>‽</sup>]] 21:48, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
* Graphics of any kind are entirely unnecessary; if we are to have an icon in the template, let it be a neutral '''informational icon'''. These templates are sometimes used on userpages for accounts associated with people's real names, and we should therefore take care to make the template as neutral as possible (even sockers have reputations that can be damaged). I do not exaggerate when I say that this scarlet letter template has caused sockers to believe they have been libelled, and to complain to functionaries and the Foundation accordingly. I would ask that we not make trouble over something so silly yet with such a capacity to damage people's reputations. The arguments for a sockmaster icon (that it is more immediately noticeable, that it "looks better", and that it's always been that way) seem entirely unconvincing to me. [[User:AGK|<span style="color:black;">'''AGK'''</span>]] [[User talk:AGK#top|[•]]] 00:19, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
* '''Puppeteer graphic''' - To keep the template distinctive, which I find very useful when quickly viewing userpages for sock tags. I don't see any pressing reasons for a change. [[User:CT Cooper|CT Cooper]]<small><span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span>&#32;[[User talk:CT Cooper|talk]]</small> 21:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
*'''Puppeteer graphic''' also [[Wikipedia:Don't edit war over the colour of templates|let's make the template red]]. ~  <span style="color:#F09;">Amory</span><span style="color:#555; font-size:smaller;"> ''([[User:Amorymeltzer|<span style="color:#555;">u</span>]] • [[User talk:Amorymeltzer|<span style="color:#555;">t</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amorymeltzer|<span style="color:#555;">c</span>]])''</span> 23:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
{{discussion bottom}}

{{Clear}}
==Checkuser link==
{{FPER|answered=yes}}
Can the link to [[WP:CU]] please be changed to [[WP:CHECKUSER]] ([[WP:CU]] is apparently a dab page for various things that could be used for "CU"). The protection of this template should also be changed so [[WP:TPE|template-editors]] may fix things as needed. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 11:10, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:EP -->. I went the whole hog and changed it to [[Wikipedia:CheckUser]]. — '''''[[User:Mr. Stradivarius|<span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius</span>]]''''' <sup>[[User talk:Mr. Stradivarius|♪ talk ♪]]</sup> 14:10, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Question ==

Is there any difference between "editing habits" and "contributions"? [[User:Toccata quarta|Toccata quarta]] ([[User talk:Toccata quarta|talk]]) 18:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
:I'd say every user's contributions are made up of their individual edits. And the way they perform these edits and related summaries may constitute a habit. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 22:23, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
==Broken template==
The template is currently broken, apparently due to an invalid second parameter to {{tl|user3}}. See [[User:Courcellez2]]. - [[User:Mike Rosoft|Mike Rosoft]] ([[User talk:Mike Rosoft|talk]]) 19:15, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
:I believe I fixed it by undoing today's edit to user3 by {{U|Mr. Stradivarius}}.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 20:31, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== SPI link text ==

The message says "the <u>sockpuppet investigation</u> of the sockpuppeteer for evidence", where the underlined text would be linked either to the SPI of the sockpuppeteer (if an SPI case page for it exists) or else to [[WP:SPI]] itself (if no existing case page). The linked phrase only sounds like it's talking about the idea of SPI, not the specific ''of this one''. I think it would be more correctly self-descriptive to make the link include that detail: "the <u>sockpuppet investigation of the sockpuppeteer</u> for evidence" if such a page exists. If no such page, then a link to the page about the process still makes sense (to help someone file it). But it would be clearer in ''that'' case if it somehow noted that one is being instructed to see a page that doesn't (yet) exist. I can make the change, but wanted to see if anyone had thoughts against it before boldly editing such a heavily used template. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 20:38, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Confirmed but not blocked ==

How do I indicate that checkuser has confirmed a sock but the sock is not blocked? (see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Majogomezsz]]) --<span style="text-shadow:#FFD700 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em">[[User:Auric|<span style="color:#FC3700;">'''Auric'''</span>]]  [[User talk:Auric|<span style="color:#0C0F00;">''talk''</span>]]</span> 10:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
:You don't. It's not your place to tag users based on an SPI report. Let the clerk or one of the administrators involved in the report do what is appropriate. As far as I can tell at a glance, the thing isn't over yet. Thanks.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:52, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
==Alternate accounts==
Hello, alternate accounts are allowed, [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Legitimate uses]] and there are templates that illustrate this exception.
I suggest we add this entry to [[Template:Sockpuppet/doc]]

{|class=wikitable
|- valign="top"
| Allowed sockpuppet
| <code><nowiki>{{User Alternate Acct|username}}</nowiki></code>
| {{User Alternate Acct|username}}
|}

[[User:Thewhitebox|Thewhitebox]] ([[User talk:Thewhitebox|talk]]) 10:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template-protected edit request on 22 February 2015 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:Sockpuppet|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
There is a grammar mistake. When I use the blocked or confirmed parameter, it says "Please refer to sockpuppet investigation". It should say, "Please refer to '''the''' sockpuppet investigation".
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Gparyani|Gparyani]] ([[User talk:Gparyani|talk]]) 17:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> They are both grammatically correct and smaller template size is preferred. — <code class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125; <sup>([[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup></code> 13:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
::{{reply to|Technical 13}} Um, no. Per what I've been taught in my English classes and per [[English articles#Definite article]], a determinate must precede a noun in most cases, and this case does not fall under the exceptions listed at that article. Therefore, the text "Please refer to sockpuppet investigation" is not correct, while "Please refer to '''the''' sock-puppet investigation" is correct. If you can point me to some other resource that says that the former is in fact correct, I'll stand corrected, but for now, this is the correct way of stating it. [[User:Gparyani|Gparyani]] ([[User talk:Gparyani|talk]]) 02:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> Except there could be multiple investigations so using a definitive would be inappropriate and you'll need to establish a consensus or offer replacement code in the sandbox that addresses the multi-investigation issue with using "the". — <code class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125; <sup>([[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup></code> 03:16, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
[[File:Pictogram voting wait.svg|20px|link=]] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ETp --> by Salvidrim!. [[User:Gparyani|Gparyani]] ([[User talk:Gparyani|talk]]) 03:51, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template-protected edit request on 27 April 2015 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:Sockpuppet|answered=yes}}
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I noticed that the word "user" in CheckUser is not properly capitalized, it appears as Check'''u'''ser instead of Check'''U'''ser. Could you fix this please? --[[User:ToonLucas22|<b style= "color:red">T</b><b style= "color:#FF4200">L</b><b style= "color:#FF7400">2</b><b style= "color:#FFA700">2</b>]] <small>([[User talk:ToonLucas22|<i style= "color:green">talk</i>]])</small> 01:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
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[[User:ToonLucas22|<b style= "color:red">T</b><b style= "color:#FF4200">L</b><b style= "color:#FF7400">2</b><b style= "color:#FFA700">2</b>]] <small>([[User talk:ToonLucas22|<i style= "color:green">talk</i>]])</small> 01:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
*IMO, [[CamelCase]] is used in common speech but is not correct usage -- it mostly reflects the capitalization of the abbreviation "CU". Policy pages aren't at CheckUser, but Checkuser. <span style="font-family:Sylfaen;color:white;background:black;padding:0 3px;">☺&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User:Salvidrim!|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim!|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 01:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
**Actually it appears that capital U is common usage, c.f. [[WP:CheckUser]], [[Special:CheckUser]], so it probably should be changed. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 03:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
***Damn, I appear to be 100% in the wrong then! Per the titles of the local and global CheckUser policy page, I'll implement the fix. <span style="font-family:Sylfaen;color:white;background:black;padding:0 3px;">☺&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User:Salvidrim!|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim!|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 03:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> Yeah, Checkuser seems correct to me too here. — <code class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125; <sup>([[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup></code> 02:49, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
::{{done}}, and implemented the fix in the section above also. <span style="font-family:Sylfaen;color:white;background:black;padding:0 3px;">☺&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User:Salvidrim!|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim!|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 03:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template-protected edit request on 3 May 2015 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:Sockpuppet|answered=yes}}
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The term "sock puppet" is incorrect. Common usage is "sockpuppet". Please change that.
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[[User:ToonLucas22|<b style= "color:red">T</b><b style= "color:#FF4200">L</b><b style= "color:#FF7400">2</b><b style= "color:#FFA700">2</b>]] <small>([[User talk:ToonLucas22|<i style= "color:green">talk</i>]])</small> 14:50, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
:[[WP:SOCK]] uses both "sock puppet" and "sockpuppet". '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 14:57, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

:{{not done}} per [[User:Vanjagenije|Vanjagenije]]. Neither term is incorrect. [[User:Huon|Huon]] ([[User talk:Huon|talk]]) 19:59, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template-protected edit request on 22 June 2015 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:Sockpuppet|answered=yes}}
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Please add the spanish interwiki. It is <code><nowiki>[[es:Plantilla:Títere]]</nowiki></code>.
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[[User:ToonLucas22|<b style= "color:red">T</b><b style= "color:#FF4200">L</b><b style= "color:#FF7400">2</b><b style= "color:#FFA700">2</b>]] <small>([[User talk:ToonLucas22|<i style= "color:green">talk</i>]])</small> 20:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
*To the best of my understanding, Interwiki Links have been deprecated in favor of Wikidata cross-metadata. <span style="font-family:Sylfaen;color:white;background:black;padding:0 3px;">☺&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User:Salvidrim!|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim!|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 21:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
::{{done}} [https://www.wikidata.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Q6583322&type=revision&diff=223387441&oldid=214016989] In Wikidata, [[es:Plantilla:Títere]] was associated with [[Template:Blocked sockpuppet]], so I removed that association and added one for [[Template:Sockpuppet]], because I trust you that this is the most appropriate solution. <span style="font-family:Sylfaen;color:white;background:black;padding:0 3px;">☺&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User:Salvidrim!|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim!|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 21:05, 22 June 2015 (UTC)