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== Oops ==

Equine Tapestry is a self-published book, as such, per [[WP:SELFPUB]], it is not deemed reliable.  [http://blackberrylanepress.com/about/ see this]. Sponenberg is reliable, as is anything out of the Veterinary Genetics Lab at UC Davis.  Those are the main RS on coat color genetics.  [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 15:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

:Thanks for noticing. Looks like I used it in dominant white too. Please let me remove those ones, as I might be able to find alternate sources for some. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 00:15, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 03:19, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

== Tiger eye ==

I like the work you did on [[Tiger eye]], only made a couple small tweaks.  [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 16:11, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

:Thanks! [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 01:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

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== Sabino ==

In light of recent research, it looks like [[Sabino (horse)]] may need some updates.  You’ve been doing AWESOME work maintaining these equine genetics articles, and I wanted to swing by and say thanks! [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 02:02, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
: {{ping|Montanabw}} Thanks, it's always nice to feel appreciated {{p}}. I took a look at sabino today and cleaned up some stuff. I'd really like if we could merge these two articles about the same gene, and just have a "Sabino and Dominant White" article. I might play around in my sandbox this week or next and see how the length would be. There's a lot of repetition between the two articles, both in the visual description, since Sabino 1 is not distinguishable from other sabino-phenotype ''KIT'' alleles by sight alone, and in the genetics obviously since the gene is the same.
:As an aside, I was trying to figure out what to call the gene where all those W series alleles are located, so I looked at the titles of papers where the alleles were described, and to my surprise not a single one called the gene itself "dominant white". Instead they were always careful to only call the gene/locus ''[[KIT (gene)|KIT]]''. The appearance, the phenotype, had various names including sabino (1 paper), dominant white (2 papers), white (3 papers), white patterning (2 papers), and white spotting (4 papers). So I guess "''KIT'' gene in horses" would be a more accurate title for our current Dominant White article, but that would be even more confusing for many. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 20:55, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
::We can’t move or dump the Sabino article, I don’t think, because the term is still being used. But we  ''could'' trim it and use it the way we do [[White (horse)]] to give an overview of the patterns with links to the articles with more technical details (a lot of stuff we now know is linked to splash also gets called “sabino”, particularly in Clydesdales and Arabians). [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 23:41, 17 October 2021 (UTC) '''Follow up''' I went in there and did some cleanup, trimming and restructuring. It will need more citations and links to the right articles, but hopefully there’s a better framework for you to work from now…[[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 02:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
As for dominant white, that title was created by Countercanter, who I believe was getting a graduate degree in genetics at the time.  It is a W gene, thus “dominant” and “white.”  I suppose if Samantha Brooks or Phillip Sponenberg are calling it something different now, we could look at that, I think they are still the color genetics gurus.   I’m hearing some chatter on Facebook about saying “white spotting” — except many W alleles can create pure white horses, so that isn’t a good name either.  (Plus lots of other genes make “spots” — splash, frame, leopard, tobiano…) I’d be all in for expanding the KIT article with more material on horses, or if it’s undue weight, then a separate “Kit gene in horses” article, as roan and other colors are also related to KIT, as is Tobiano.  [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 23:41, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
:I think the move to call W something other than dominant white came around when W20 was discovered and named, as that allele often gives even less white than sabino, and like SB1 is homozygous viable. Looking at Sponenburg and Bellone's book was a good idea. I'll toss in some quick quotes here before work, and figure out which/how to use them later. "Equine Color Genetics Fourth Edition", page 171 "...this overo group actually contains multiple patterns, including frame, splashed white, manchado, and sabino. Sabino likewise includes sabino 1, white, dominant white, and polygenetic sabino."  p 188 and 191 (in the section titled "Sabino and White") "The relationship between sabino, dominant white, and white is complicated because the phenotypes overlap and they are also genetically related. They are somewhat easier to understand when discussed as a single group." p 191 "Multiple distinct alleles cause  the patterns that are grouped together as sabino or (dominant) white. These all occur on the ''KIT'' locus, which is involved in several white patterns, including tobiano, white markings, and classic roan.(Table 7.1) The variability of color distribution in maximally patterned horses has long suggested that multiple patterns existed, and the genetic findings have now confirmed this. Sabino and white are therefore seen most accurately as a group of patterns rather than a single one, but the separate types have overlapping phenotypes that defeat any attempt to neatly separate them out from one another. Sabino and white overlap and are genetically related, so any discussion of them goes best when they are considered together." p 194 "In it's strictest sense, ''dominant white'' is reserved for those ''KIT'' alleles thought to be lethal to homozygous embryos." Also, looks like they're using ''white'' as the catch-all term for the W series, p 194-195 "The alleles have been given the ''white'' name, followed by the number indicating the sequence in which they were discovered." That's the first time I've seen that; I'll have to keep an eye out and see what terms others are using. Gotta go now but I can take another look after, I see you've made lots of changes :) [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 13:51, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
::I moved the discussion begun on my talkpage to the talkpage of the Sabino article so we can hash it out further at the article in question. Overall I think you are on the right track, basically, but there’s a lot of old history that I am aware of (I’ve known a fair number of color breeders over the years out here, lots of paints and appies in Montana, and oh god the horse politics…) that probably needs context. Also, Brooks is a brilliant geneticist, but she sometimes shoots from the hip when it comes to suggesting new terminology… like the decision to use the SB-1 label instead of the W label…lol.  [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 14:18, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I strongly apologise to bother you, but if you do not mind, I would like to ask a question regarding the article [[Transposable element]]. I believe it should include some information on the so-called Class III TEs (see: Pierre Capy et al., ''Dynamics and Evolution of Transposable Elements'', 1998).
* E.g. some papers refer to [[Miniature Inverted-repeat Transposable Elements|MITEs]] as Class III: [https://www.pnas.org/content/115/28/E6650 Multigenome analysis implicates miniature inverted-repeat transposable elements (MITEs) in metabolic diversification in eudicots].
* Another example may be Foldback (FB) elements, see e.g.: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC151186/ The transposable elements of the ''Drosophila melanogaster'' euchromatin: a genomics perspective].
* John Baez (2017) described Class III TEs as {{tq|a grab-bag consisting of transposons that don't clearly fit into the other two categories}}, and added: {{tq|Examples include the "Foldback" elements in fruit flies, the "Tu" elements in sea urchins, and "MITEs", or "miniature inverted repeat transposable elements", which are found mainly in plants and fungi.}}
If you find some time, could you briefly describe Class III TEs, please? Thank you very much. Kind regards, --[[User:Pinoczet|Pinoczet]] ([[User talk:Pinoczet|talk]]) 17:35, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

== Bay ==

Sorry we had an edit conflict on the bay horse article. I think I got all of your edits put back into place, though I put the history at the end instead of at the beginning, and then I tossed a section header because it was redundant.  Anyway, once I cleaned up the mess I made in the genetics section, I realize the rest of the article is kind of cringe worthy also, so if you wanna just take a whack at the whole thing, I am going to leave it alone now, and you can have at it. [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 19:12, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Montanabw}} Thanks for letting me know! [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 20:10, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

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{{You've got mail}} [[User:Montanabw|<span style="color: #006600;">Montanabw</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 04:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

==Courtesy notice==
I mentioned your lead rewrite of [[Cat predation on wildlife]] in an ongoing AN/I thread here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Conduct_dispute_against_Geogene_and_SMcCandlish_in_Cat_predation_on_wildlife]. Diff [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1228324059] Not as a specific request for punishment, but as an example of editing there that I'm opposed to. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 16:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Geogene}} I appreciate the notice. Respectfully, your claim is in the most literal possible sense a conspiracy theory, and I would suggest you take a step back and rethink things. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

:What is? Could you elucidate that for me? [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 20:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

:: {{ping|Geogene}} The claim that a website disagreeing with your views must be a "front group" (for whom?) "pushing scientifically dubious views on outdoor cats".
:: As for those views themselves, I see no evidence that the effect of cats on mainland areas is even 1/10 as much of a threat to endangered species as they are on predator-naive islands. Perhaps we are talking past each other, with me viewing things in terms of species conservation and you in terms of the well-being of individual wild animals? Certainly in absolute numbers there are a large number of animals killed by cats on mainlands, but studies are very wishy-washy on what if any effect this has on the ecosystem. Presumably if there are enough cats there will be some effect even on a mainland, but the article's references do not support its current treatment of mainland and island effects as basically identical. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 21:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Sounds like you must be unaware of how the [[third party technique]] works, or how prevalent it is in PR practices. That also leads to another pet peeve I have about people who don't know what a [[conspiracy theory]] actually is and who use that term incorrectly. As for cats on continents, I think that was pretty much settled over a decade ago ("are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals") [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380]. As for what effect that might have, given that bird populations are declining around 3% a year, I think it's easy to guess what effect the single largest anthropogenic cause of bird mortality is likely to be having. No idea where your comment about individual animal welfare is coming from. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 21:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

:::: {{ping|Geogene}} First sentence of the article you so kindly linked: "A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy by powerful and sinister groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable." The situation is the website of the National Feline Research Council suggesting that cat predation has smaller ecological effects than commonly claimed, by making reasonable arguments and citing scientific sources. The explanation you provide is that the NFSC is a front organization for some sinister group conspiring to give cats good PR, when a more probable explanation is that they simply believe their position is true.
:::: Where do you get 3% per year? From [https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/vanishing-1-in-4-birds-gone] a 30% loss over 49 years works out to 0.7% per year. They also suggest habitat loss as a factor, which Loss et al 2013 do not assess as it does not cause mortality directly. I'm not seeing any reliable sources directly attribute this mainly to cats, although I'm sure they do have some effect. This ''heavily'' contrasts with the situation on predator-naive islands, where cats can quickly and efficiently drive bird species extinct. [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 23:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::Well, this is not going anywhere productive, so happy editing. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 23:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

== Cat Predation on Wildlife is Like Herding Cats ==

Hello! I noticed you seem to be getting a little frustrated in the above talk page. I wanted to offer my condolences and sympathies; it feels like it's really, really easy for people to talk past each other on that page. I really appreciate you trying to keep things on task, but wanted to remind you that, if it's causing aggravation, I'd rather you take a few days off than burn out and vanish from the page entirely! (I may be projecting a bit here; I've already had to take a couple wikibreaks.) I do think we're moving toward a consensus, but as the section title alludes, it doesn't seem to be an easy process! Take care of yourself, and I hope to hear more from you. [[User:EducatedRedneck|EducatedRedneck]] ([[User talk:EducatedRedneck|talk]]) 00:02, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
: Very much appreciated! [[User:Iamnotabunny|Iamnotabunny]] ([[User talk:Iamnotabunny#top|talk]]) 00:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

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