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== Why did you delete my corrections? ==

You searched for the correctios that I applied to the article on [[Latin conjugation]] and reverted all of them.

In particular, when it comes to the number of conjugations, you reverted my fixes to a wrong version that cites a work from 1895 as something written by a 'grammarian' 'in modern times'. You also reverted a correction whereby I make clear that the four inflectional class names are based on the infinitive verb, not the 1st person singular present active as the previous text suggested. And another correction whereby I make sure the sequence of two verbs 'sum, esse' is not called 'verb', but 'vocabulary item' (or 'dictionary entry', or 'lexical item', if you will). For inflected words, one vocabulary item corresponds to multiple words. Finally, you removed all remarks that point to the fact that there are five conjugations, not four, and the historical reasons why one regular conjugation is called 'mixed conjugation'.

The reason for reverting was "New rewriting is too verbose and "chatty"." Why? Why? Are you upset because of something I told you in Talk page? I do not want to enter an edit fight, I just want to understand. Currently, without any message, it feels like you are invested in preventing any corrections to that page. [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 08:47, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{ping|Daniel Couto Vale}} Some answers to your questions. 1. 1895 ''is'' modern, in comparison to Varro and Donatus. The system of four conjugations has not changed since then. For example, Langenscheidt's pocket dictionary (I have it here) reports that ''capio'' is "3", i.e. 3rd conjugation. The same is true of all the other standard reference books written in English. 2. No one at all says that -ontur verbs make a different conjugation. This is something you have invented.  3. I don't know why you claim that ''sum'' is not a verb. All the dictionaries call it a verb. Merriam-Webster's dictionary calls the English equivalent "be" a verb. 4. The introduction, as you left it, was more like an essay. We should stick to the standard encyclopaedic style. The introduction should be as concise as possible, without going into unnecessary details. 5. I'm not annoyed about anything you wrote on the Talk page but I just think that you don't understand the Wikipedia rules, which are that an article has to summarise the standard view, not give your own personal ideas about the subject. 6. Any statement of anything except the most basic and uncontroversial facts needs a reference to a standard work on the subject. A random sentence from Varro in which he happens to use a verb with the spelling -ontur cannot be used to support the view that -ontur verbs are generally held to form a separate conjugation. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 12:35, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::1a. No one reading wikipedia will think that 1895 is 'modern'.
::1b. Go to the end of the dictionary in Langenscheidt at the section "Conjugation" ("Konjugation" in German). As I cited in the version you reverted, they present FIVE conjugations: in German, "1. ā-Konjugation", "2. ē-Konjugation", "3. konsonantische Konjugation", "3. gemischte Konjugation", "4. ī-Konjugation". They do two classifications of the conjugations: a number classification with four categories of conjugation ("1.", "2.", "3.", "4."), one of which subsumes two conjugations; and a word classification with five options (ā, ē, konsonantische, gemischte, ī). The numbers correspond to the endings of the infinitive. The words correspond to the conjugations as inflectional classes. The latter classification is the most modern one.
::2. This depends on whether you want 'conjugation' to be a descriptive term or an invented enumeration. If conjugation is an inflectional class, all digital systems for processing corpora will need a specific class for this inflectional class. You might be ignoring the works in the last 30 years in computational corpus study of Latin. But this is my focus, it needs not be yours.
::3. I did not claim that ''sum'' is not a verb. I said that ''sum'' is a verb, ''esse'' is a verb, but that ''sum, esse, fuī, futūrus'' is not a verb, but a '''vocabulary item''' (a.k.a. '''lexical item''', '''dictionary entry'''). There are many verbs such as ''sum'', ''es'', ''est'', ''sumus''... which belong to that vocabulary item. It is the vocabulary item, not the verb, that belongs to a class. For instance, the verbal item ''putō, putāre, putāvī, putātūrus'' belongs to the ''ā'' conjugation (a.k.a. 1st conjugation); in turn, the verb ''putō'' belongs to the first-person, singular, present, indicative categories, not the vocabulary item. In Latin, ''vocabulary item'' = ''vocābulum'' and ''word'' = ''verbum''.
::I do not mind corrections regarding encyclopaedic style. From my perspective, the problem only comes when the information is wrong, contradictory or poorly structured discursively. Currently, the article is poorly structured and contains false/misleading information. [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 15:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{ping|Daniel Couto Vale}} 1895 seems very modern compared with Varro! How do you know that other people won't think it's modern?
:German terminology differs from the terminology typical of English-language publications. But even in the German-language Langenscheidt, as your quotation makes clear, ''capio'' is classified as a 3rd conjugation verb. It's just a different variety. In the same way ''rex'' and ''turris'' both belong to the 3rd declension, even though they are slightly different and the accusative singular is regem but turrim. ''ā-Konjugation'' is commonly used in German publications but not often in English ones.
:To call ''sum, esse'' a "vocabulary item" is slightly weird. Everyone else calls it simply a verb, e.g. Lewis and Short's dictionary.
:Your idea of "poorly structured" differs from other people's. As I mentioned before, you can classify Shakespeare's plays in a library alphabetically or chronologically but not both at the same time. When the librarian has already decided on the alphabetical arrangement, it isn't for you to come along and rearrange everything according to your preferences, if other users are happy with the way it is. In Wikipedia the people who got there first and created the article tend to get to decide the way an article is arranged. Why don't you find a new topic and write about that? I have created nearly 60 Wikipedia articles so there are plenty of topics to choose from. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 18:48, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::Ask any person you trust what time range he/she imagines when he/she reads "In modern times, grammarians...". If they give any date before they were born, you tell me here. One person is enough.
::"''capio'' is classified as a 3rd conjugation verb" - This is not true. The vocabulary item ''capiō, capere'' is classified as "3rd mixed conjugation". The authors were very clever when they did this. They contemplated the fact that some people still use four historical conjugation names (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) and that other people adopt the more modern naming convention with one name per conjugation (ā, ē, consonantal, mixed, ī). I know you are one of the people who still use the historical conjugation names and that you want them to be the "modern ones". However, this is not the case.
::There is almost 130 years of research between the book you cite and today. Modern linguistics as a science first began in the early 1900s, decades after this book. Now we have computers. We have corpora. We have unicode. We process texts automatically. We are communicating through a talk page of a wiki article. A modern way of thinking includes understanding what a unit is, what a class is, what a name is, and how to use them in a scientific way. It also includes the expectation that any reader can use a concordance tool such as [[https://latin.packhum.org/concordance PHI Latin Texts]] to verify examples and a translation tool such as [[https://translate.google.com Google Translate]] to understand them. The information that people will search for in wikipedia is that which they cannot do already with those digital tools. We are coming from two very different perspectives.
::"As I mentioned before, you can classify Shakespeare's plays in a library alphabetically or chronologically but not both at the same time." - I am 100% sure that you did not understand what I wrote. I was exactly telling you that the article is organized in one way until the half (say 'alphabetically'), then there are two sections of lightly related topics organized in a different way (say 'chronologically'), then one section with miscelanious information that should be somewhere else within the article (wrong place according to your own ordering). But you are informed and you think the article is good despite my feedback. I know that you will revert any change, so I will not try to correct or improve it anymore. [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 22:48, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

== October 2015 ==
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==Ancient Greek grammar split==
Got to use [[Template:Copied]] templates for large content splits like that. I've taken care of it though. <span style="color:#0645AD;">[[User: Brightgalrs|<span style="color:#0645AD;">'''Brightgalrs'''</span>]] (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)<sup>[[User talk:Brightgalrs|<span style="color:#0645AD;">[1]</span>]]</sup></span> 08:37, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|Brightgalrs}} Thanks! Could you also deal with the article [[Infinitive (Ancient Greek)]] which I have split off from [[Ancient Greek grammar]] in the same way? The [[Template:Copied]] template seems complicated! [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 09:51, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
::{{done}} Yep, no problem. <span style="color:#0645AD;">[[User: Brightgalrs|<span style="color:#0645AD;">'''Brightgalrs'''</span>]] (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)<sup>[[User talk:Brightgalrs|<span style="color:#0645AD;">[1]</span>]]</sup></span> 09:53, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

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== Scansion ==

Hi, Kanjuzi. I see you've done quite a bit of work relating to quantitative metrics. I expect I have nothing to tell you on that topic. However, you may find some of my struggles with the ''display'' of scansion useful.

   –  u   u  –     –      –  u   u  –    u   u   –   u  u  –    –  
 Scanning a verse line: starting a line with a space is a good way.

(I know; inappropriate for English. It's just an example.) The alternative is this markup:

:<code><nowiki><pre style="border:none;background-color:transparent;margin-left:1em"></nowiki></code>
:<tt>scansion
:verse text</tt>
:<code><nowiki></pre></nowiki></code>

I happen to prefer the initial space, because markup (anything from, say, '''bold''' to an inline reference) works with it. This is ''not'' true with the "pre" markup, but I think most people feel that it meshes with the rest of the text better as it lacks the boxy background. I see you generally keep your scansions separate from the verse text. Personally I prefer pairing the scansion with each line (as above), but even your method can benefit from a monospaced font, since this:

:| – u – – | – u – – || – u – – | – u – |
:| uu u uu – | uu u – – || – u – – | – u – |

...from your [[Metres of Roman comedy]] becomes (I think) much clearer if reformatted and stacked:

 | –  u –  – | –  u – – || – u – – | – u – |
 | uu u uu – | uu u – – || – u – – | – u – |

This kind of stuff can be done with tables too, but I believe this is a bad choice because it requires more skill both for the initial editor, and for any subsequent editors who wish to modify it. Furthermore, both methods shown above are WYSIWYG, which helps immensely.

My other bit of work was [[User:Phil wink/Quantitative scansion code]] which itself seems to be of no use, but by-the-bye contains several notes on what potential scansion symbols tend to render correctly, and a couple of tricks to do stuff like this: <u>u&#x035D;u</u> (in case you're ever unlucky enough to need it). Cheers. [[User:Phil wink|Phil wink]] ([[User talk:Phil wink|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

{{reply to|Phil wink}} That's a good idea. I will experiment and see how it looks. Usually I avoid the initial-space courier-font boxes as they look ugly, but the stacked scansions as you have done them look attractive. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 09:26, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

:If you don't like the boxes, then use the "pre" style, particularly since these lines, at least, have no other required markup:

<pre style="border:none;background-color:transparent;margin-left:1em">
| –  u –  – | –  u – – || – u – – | – u – |
| uu u uu – | uu u – – || – u – – | – u – |
</pre>
:[[User:Phil wink|Phil wink]] ([[User talk:Phil wink|talk]]) 13:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

{{reply to|Phil wink}} I've tried it now on one section of [[Metres of Roman comedy]] to see how it looks. It looks fine, except for the big space above and below the scansion. I don't know if that can be got rid of easily? [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 09:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

:To my knowledge the space is unavoidable. It may not be exactly what you want, but I don't think you should see it as a terrible thing. These are, after all ''illustrations'', not part of the continuous text, and a little framing (even just white framing) doesn't hurt (not unlike a blockquote). And on Wikipedia, there is no limit on "ink and paper". I've tried a '''lot''' of crazy combinations of html tricks (and I needed someone else to figure out the "pre" solution). Almost all fail, usually because almost all replace multiple spaces with single spaces, which is death to our attempt to line up characters WYSIWYG. Cheers. [[User:Phil wink|Phil wink]] ([[User talk:Phil wink|talk]]) 13:36, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I have been reading through your linguistics articles. They are clear, informative and understandable, even to a layman such as myself - everything Wikipedia aspires to be. Thank you for your contributions. [[User:Jbhunley|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:14pt;color:#886600">Jbh</span>]][[User_talk:Jbhunley|<span style="color: #00888F"><sup> Talk</sup></span>]] 14:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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== Latin help ==

Hi {{ping|Kanjuzi}}, thanks so much for all your contributions!

I have created a personal user award to recognize contributions related to ancient Roman history, which I have dubbed "The Barnstar of Tacitus".  Could you check my translation: "stella horreorum Taciti"?  Thanks. [[User:InformationvsInjustice|Informata ob Iniquitatum]] ([[User talk:InformationvsInjustice|talk]]) 22:42, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
:Well, it's correct if you mean a "star of Tacitus's barns". How about ''stella horreatica Taciti''? Or even, since the star is a small one, ''stellula horreatica  Taciti'' – though perhaps the latter's a bit fussy; the first is better. Try running it past someone else who knows Latin! [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 04:59, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

== Another Latin question ==

Salve amice, 

Aiutum! I am struggling with the difference between evocare and devocare, evoco and devoco.  I understand evoco to mean to summon, or lure.  An evocatio was a ritual designed to "distract" a city's gods by a besieging army.  But I find in Pliny's Natural Histories XXVIII ch.4, devocare is used for summoning Jupiter.   Are the two interchangeable?  

Evocatus is a veteran heeding the call to return to duty. So what would a devocatus be? 

If you can help, awesome, don't feel obliged to respond if you can't :-) [[User:InformationvsInjustice|Informata ob Iniquitatum]] ([[User talk:InformationvsInjustice|talk]]) 04:51, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
:The Lewis and Short entries, which you will find here: http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#evoco and here: http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#devoco, make the difference fairly plain. ''Evocare'' is to call someone ''out'', supposing they are ''in'' something, e.g. in their home, in a city, and so on. ''Devocare'' is to call someone down (e.g. to call on a god to come down from heaven to help), but it also has a range of other meanings such as invite, lure, etc. The form ''devocatus'' doesn't seem to be used. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 05:15, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

::There is an entry for [http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#devocatus devocatus].  Sadly, I am unable to understand the definition provided.  [[User:InformationvsInjustice|Informata ob Iniquitatum]] ([[User talk:InformationvsInjustice|talk]]) 05:37, 11 July 2018 (UTC)''
:It is from a medieval book (the Statutes of the [[Premonstratensian]] Order) and it says ''Si lector mensae devocatus benedictionem neglexerit'' = 'if a reader, invited to the table, neglects to say a blessing'. Underneath a footnote queries the word and suggests that perhaps it ought to say ''denotatus'', which would mean 'specified' or 'designated'. Anyway I don't think it's worth worrying about. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 05:58, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

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== March 2019 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello and [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|welcome to Wikipedia]]. Constructive contributions to [[Wikipedia:About|Wikipedia]] are appreciated, but [[Special:Contributions/Kanjuzi|a recent edit]] of yours to the page [[:Graham Hancock]] has an [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]] that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. The summaries are helpful to people browsing an [[Help:Page history|article's history]], so it is important that you use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did. Feel free to use [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|the sandbox]] to make test edits. ''

I don't know whether your edit was perhaps a misclick, but you said that you were restoring references, when the edit in fact removed neutrally phrased and sourced info, replacing it with phrasing that was against a strong and long-standing consensus on the article talk page. If it was an accident, then please be more careful. Regards, ''<!-- Template:uw-wrongsummary --> ''[[User:Bonadea|bonadea]]'' <small>[[Special:Contributions/Bonadea|contributions]] [[User talk:Bonadea|talk]]</small> 13:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

:{{ping|Bonadea}} No, it was not a misclick. The change I made was to restore two references to books which refer to Hancock's ideas as pseudoscience. Somewhere during the last few edits those two references had been removed, although not by me, and I thought it useful to put them back. So my edit summary was quite accurate and your comment is puzzling. Perhaps you were mistaking me for the other editor who made the earlier change? Incidentally, the introduction as it now stands seems to me to be a little over-emphatic on the attacking side. Is it necessary to say twice in six lines (with a repeated reference) that his work is pseudoscientific? Personally I preferred the previous wording that his work is regarded as pseudoscientific. It seems more neutral. And it only needs to be said once. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 16:59, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

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== Pipe ==

Hi, Kanjuzi. I happened to notice a couple of your recent edits, in which you're dealing with pipes (|) in sensitive situations. I suspect that the trick you're looking for is <code><nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki></code>, which correctly and safely displays the pipe character both within tables and within templates, without breaking the functionality of either. And as far as I know, it works in other situations too, but to my knowledge, regular pipes won't break other stuff. Cheers. [[User:Phil wink|Phil wink]] ([[User talk:Phil wink|talk]]) 00:34, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
:Thanks! That's a good trick. I didn't know that. Jolly useful. {{!}} [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 13:09, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

==Recent additions to [[Latin tenses]]==
The discussion has been moved to Latin tenses: Talk. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 12:55, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

{{ping|Kanjuzi}} Should I create a separate Wikipedia article about [[grammatical tense in Latin]] so as to give readers access to the current theory of [[grammatical tense]] in Latin? That way you can make the article on [[Latin tenses]] stay the way it is now and at the same time you would allow Wikipedia visitors access to facts about the Latin language described in the literature. --[[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 22:33, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

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==Catulli carmen LXIII - De Attide==
===Number 1===
#Salve, Kanjuzi!
#Gratias tibi for your contributions!
#I really cant help but say, you did a great job marking the ([[synaloepha]]e)!
===Number 2===
It is a miracle to find another user who also knows Carmen 63 of Catullus. ''Legi'' I read [[Ionic meter|''hoc'' this]] and when ''vidēbam'' I was reading the part for Carmen 36, ''fui valde laeta'' I was really happy, although Carmen 63 was indeed written in ''Versus Galliambicus'' ''et'' and based upon the [[Ionic meter]], ''sed'' but, in ''Versō Galliambicō'' the [[Galliambic Verse]], ''syllaba postrēma'' the last syllable is an [[anceps]]...which means the last syllable can be either short "u" or long "-" and this is the part where I have some objections to the meter. Not all of the last syllables are long "-", they dont count as a long syllable by nature nor a long syllable by postion. 

*A syllable is long by nature when you can see that there is a "-" across the vowel, e.g. :nāvis. "nā" is a long syllable (tempus longus) by nature and "vis" is short (tempus breve)
*A syllable is long by position when (please allow me to show you examples, it may seem really confusing): 
#a vowell before 2 consonants or a double consonant e.g. : maximus "ma" is long by position 
#vowell before a consonant ending the former word and a consonant e.g. : caelum caeruleum "lum" is long by position
#even if a former word ends with vowell that is short by nature and the next word begins with 2 consonants e.g. : occulta spolia "ta" is long by position

this is what you wrote:
<pre style="border-width:0px; background:none;">
Super alta vectus Attis celeri rate maria
Phrygi(um) ut nemus citato cupide pede tetigit
adiitqu(e) opaca silvis redimita loca deae,
stimulatus ibi furenti rabie, vagus animis
devolsit il(i) acuto sibi pondera silice.
The meter is:

u u – u – u – – | u u – u u u u –
u u – u – u – – | u u – u u u u –
u u – u – u – – | u u – u u u u –
u u – u u u u – – | u u – u u u u –
– – u – u – – | u u – u u u u –</pre>
(I must say again..you did a good job marking the synaloephae..not everyone knows how..)
In your meter the last [[syllable]] of every [[sentence]] are all written with "-", indicating that they all are long syllables, I'm sorry to say, but, not all the last syllablae are ''tempi longi''. for example lets just say "tetigit", "git" is not long by nature nor is it long by position, and therefore it should not be marked with "-". *There are a few more that should not be marked with "-"

===Number 3===
 '''vagus animis'''[[File:Carmen 36.jpg|thumb|This is the version of the poem I was taught to read]]
From the poem I've been taught to read, it says, "....vagus animī" instead of "...vagus animis", and to my interpretation, it means "wandering mind of his" and that should be "animī" instead of "animis" as it should be in ''genetivus singulāris'', [[genetive case|genetive]] singular, and not ''datīvus plūrālis nec ablātīvus plūrālis'', not [[dative case|dative]] plural nor [[ablative case|ablative]] plural. 

===Number 4===
Ah..you must be a little shocked to find that I have a fouth thing to point out, but don't worry :), its just a little suggestion.
I know it's really annoying writing all the "-" thingies on top of letters when writing in Latin. I find it really annoying, escpecially when typing, and sometimes I dont remember whether or not there is one. BUT....it is best to write it, particularly when writing carmina, quia it gives at least it gives me a better sense when figuring out the ''tempus longus'' vs ''tempus breve'' it actually really does.

AND...it can change a word..for example, you should be familiar with the 4 categories of verbs..? well...yes...
*the 2nd category of verbs end with "-ēre" 
*the 3rd category of verbs end with "-ere"
..so if I forgot the "-" thingie....I could mess up with the whole conjugations...and that would be a disaster...(at least for me)
OH YEAH...it changes the pronounciaton too.. did you realize..? 
* e.g. : "vidēre" (2nd category) is pronounced: /veee-day-rrr-eh/
* e.g. : "scrībere" (3rd category) is pronounced : /ss-krr-eeeee-beh-rrr-eh/
can you see ..wait hear..? *hear im sure.. the difference ...? "eh-rrr-eh" vs "ay-rrr-eh"

Gratias tibi for hearing my thoughts :) [[User:Wah lao eh...|Wah lao eh...]] ([[User talk:Wah lao eh...|talk]]) 23:22, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

:{{ping|Wah lao eh...}} Thank you very much for your comments. This is a very interesting point, and it seems that scholars differ as to whether a final syllable consisting of short vowel + consonant should be counted as long or short: see [[Brevis in longo]]. My understanding is that even a short vowel at the end of a verse was considered by ancient prosodists to count as long, because of the pause that followed it. This is why it is impossible to end a line with a dactyl, since, with the pause at the end of the line, – u u would automatically be counted as – u –. However, lots of scholars would agree with you, so there is no harm in writing "x" for the last syllable if there is any doubt. And it seems that even if it counted as long, a final short vowel was felt to be shorter than a short vowel + consonant and avoided by some poets as insufficiently heavy to end a line. So in a way you are right.

:Concerning ''animis'', I looked it up and it seems that the 14th-century manuscripts of Catullus actually have ''amnis'', so some editors emend this to ''animis'' and others to ''animi''. Both are possible, I expect.

:By the way, yes, as a Latin teacher I hear the difference between -ere and -ēre very well, though you are right that not everyone does! [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 02:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

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== Review request ==

Greetings,

It seems you have worked on article [[Saadi Shirazi]]. 

Currently I am working on the article,  [[Anarkali#Inscription]] on whose tomb a Mughal prince inscribed a couplet.          

As I received a ref from other user from recent discussion @ Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities, the said couplet is likely to be of [[Saadi Shirazi]] but the reference seems  from a journalist, so being RS I included info in the article but still I would prefer to being reviewed/confirmed that the couplet really existed in [[Saadi Shirazi]] and that it is not likely to be misquotation by the journalist who attributed the couplet to [[Saadi Shirazi]].

Thanks and warm regards

[[User:Bookku|Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 04:30, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Bookku}} It is indeed from Saadi: [https://ganjoor.net/saadi/divan/ghazals/sh13/ ghazal 31 line 1]. In the article [[Anarkali]], it is misquoted with the half-lines the wrong way round. It should be (the following is the Iranian pronunciation, which is not as appropriate as the Indian pronunciation in the article):
::{{lang|fa|rtl=yes|وه که گر من بازبینم روی یار خویش را}}
::{{lang|fa|rtl=yes|تا قیامت شکر گویم کردگار خویش را}}
::{{lang|fa-Latn|vah ke gar man bāz bīnam rūy-e yār-e xīš-rā}}
::{{lang|fa-Latn|tā qiyāmat šokr gūyam kerdgār-e xīš-rā}}
::"Ah, if I could see the face of my lover again,
::until the Day of Judgement I would say praises of my Creator"

:I have corrected the version in that article, leaving the transliteration unchanged. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 06:36, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Re|Kanjuzi}} Many many thanks for your valuable information and support. 

This raises some more curiosity in my mind as follows, (Sorry it seems to have gone bit long below)   

* It seems [[Saadi Shirazi]] seems to have visited India too but there is a difference of almost 3 & 1/2 century in between [[Saadi Shirazi]] & [[Jahangir]]; Secondly since times of Akbar Mughals used to have well maintained Kitab Khana, So it would be curious to know whether the verse  reached directly from some writing [[Saadi Shirazi]] left in India or it came back in form of a book after [[Saadi Shirazi]] returned back. I mean to say is whether [[Saadi Shirazi]] had left any line of his own followers in India during his visit. 
* As far as article [[Tomb of Anarkali]] is concerned is it possible to confirm whether what is actually written on cenotaph matches as is with version of [[Saadi Shirazi]] ref provided by you or  cenotaph is following some little different rendering? 
: Two cenotaph inscription images [[:File:Anarkali tomb cenotaph1, November 2008.jpg|1]] [[:File:Anarkali tomb cenotaph2, November 2008.jpg|2]] are available on Wikimedia commons I don't know how far those are readable.
 
* One more imp point for article [[Tomb of Anarkali]], while now for sure we know that it was kind of plagiarizing on part of Jahangir but since he has put his own name as Majanun Salim Akbar on cenotaph We will need to mention his name too with note that it is actually from  [[Saadi Shirazi]]

* Last but not least are there any references to story of [[Layla and Majnun]] in [[Saadi Shirazi]]'s literature ? So was whether Jahangir took connecting those lines with word Majnuj from [[Saadi Shirazi]]'s literature ? or it was his own invention?

Thanks and warm regards

[[User:Bookku|Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 07:24, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

:: {{ping|Bookku}} (1) That Saadi himself visited India is doubtful. In particular, his description of the visit to the temple at Somnath is described by the scholar Katouzian as "almost certainly fictitious".
:: (2) However, his poetry was very well known both in India and Persia throughout all the centuries from his lifetime up to the present day, and it is not possible that anyone who knew anything about Persian literature would not know that this line (the opening line of his 13th ghazal) was written by Saadi. Just as for anyone who has read any English literature, it is obvious that "Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote" or "I wandered lonely as a cloud" or "O wild west wind, thou breath of autumn's being" are written by Chaucer, Wordsworth, and Shelley respectively, without any need to name the author. So it is unlikely that Salim is claiming that the line is his or that anyone would understand him to be claiming that.
:: (3) Examining the photos carefully, I see that (although it is very faint) the first word of the line is in fact "āh" rather than "vah ki", so I have changed the transcription back again. Either variant is metrically possible.
:: (4) It is not clear from the photos which order the half-lines come in. Is photo 2 the one on the left and photo 1 the one on the right or the other way round? But in any case, it seems from the meaning that the half-line "Ah, if only I could see the face of my beloved again" ought to come first. If they are the other way round the couplet doesn't really make any sense.  
:: (5) References to the story of Leyli and Majnun are found not only in Saadi but also in virtually every classical Persian poet, so if Salim referred to himself as "Majnun" everyone would know what he meant. The story is very well known.
:: (6) The description of the tombstone as "one of the finest pieces of carving in the world" seems to me an absurd exaggeration. From the photographs it looks a fine piece of carving but nothing particularly special: there are hundreds of others like it. 
::Hope this helps. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 11:06, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Re|Kanjuzi}} Many thanks again for your detailed and helpful reply and edit help. On your last 6th point I do completely agree wonder whether such  exaggerations are South Asian signature feature, I hope I have not started exaggerating myself being student of South Asian studies. There are so many of instance that any courtesy appreciation along with exaggerations involved by guests specially foreign one is taken by heart by most South Asians. Usually I leave such things for Copy editors to take care. 

Thanks and warm regards

[[User:Bookku|Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 11:34, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

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== Iambic shortening ==

{{ping|Kwamikagami}} I am composing an article about iambic shortening. Most of it is about Latin, but I would like to add something about English iambic shortening too, e.g. ''allérgic'' vs. ''állĕrgy'', or ''márrow'' vs. ''márrŏwbone''. But despite searching everywhere I can't find any articles about this to refer to. Can you suggest anything? You are the sort of person who might know. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 12:55, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

:Closest I can think of is [[disyllabic laxing]]. [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC) 
::Yes, that's very interesting. (I've added an article by Scott Myers [https://www.jstor.org/stable/4047504] which is relevant to that.) But it isn't iambic shortening. I've found one by Dabouis which partly fits the bill but am still searching. It discusses reduction of vowels, but not the shortening of whole syllables such as ''Kensington'' – – – vs. ''Kennington'' u u –. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 19:08, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
:BTW, do you know the Chichewa names for the planets, even if just assimilated English ones? [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:48, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
::Chichewa has no names for any stars or planets, apart from the Pleiades, the Milky Way, and the Morning Star, which they call {{lang|ny|nthandá}}. I once asked the writer Professor Steve Chimombo about this, and he went and asked in the university for me but came up with no names apart from these. The Malawians have lots of names for different edible termites and caterpillars, but it seems that they have never been interested in the stars, which is surprising. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 19:08, 14 April 2022 (UTC) I forgot to ping {{ping|Kwamikagami}}. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 19:10, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
:::Not too surprising, really. If they don't play an important role in the culture, say in a calendar or for seafaring, how would you ever keep track? How would you know if a particular light was Jupiter or Saturn? Certainly over multiple generations. Even if there were names, it's likely that you'd get different identifications from different people. But I thought it worth asking, so thanks. [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

== Hello ==

Greetings @[[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]]
[[:tum:Jani_likulu|This wiki]] misses you as you were one of the active users who were correcting mistakes,fixing general errors.
Your presence there mattered and matters.
Thanks. [[User:Tumbuka Arch|Tumbuka Arch]] ([[User talk:Tumbuka Arch|talk]]) 02:13, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|Tumbuka Arch}} How very kind! Thank you. I am not really an expert in Tumbuka, but I will do what I can. Keep up the good work! [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 14:47, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]]Thank you.
::Actually the wiki needs you whenever you have time to create a few templates info boxes (maybe 2,or 3) to be used in countries.Of course when you have time.
::Thanks. [[User:Tumbuka Arch|Tumbuka Arch]] ([[User talk:Tumbuka Arch|talk]]) 14:54, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

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== Latin tenses ==

Please check the new Latin tenses article at [[User:Daniel Couto Vale/sandbox|my sandbox]]. All contents of your current article that you do not find there have been moved to subordinate articles. Please give me a go for me to publish the new version or make comments on what you think the page should be improved. [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 11:09, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

:Daniel, there does not need to be a new article on Latin tenses. There is already a perfectly good article on the subject, and the changes you are making, with your own idiosyncratic terminology, are not an improvement. Why don't you write an article on something else instead? [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 01:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

== [[Draft:Metron (poetry)|Metron (poetry)]] moved to draftspace ==

An article you recently created, [[Draft:Metron (poetry)|Metron (poetry)]], is not suitable as written to remain published. While it appears to be notable, it needs more citations from [[WP:RS|reliable]], [[WP:IS|independent sources]].  There are large sections which are wholly uncited.  <small>([[WP:42|?]])</small> Information that can't be referenced should be removed ([[WP:V|verifiability]] is of [[WP:5|central importance]] on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to [[Wikipedia:Draftspace|draftspace]] (with a prefix of "<code>Draft:</code>" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. I did this rather than removing the uncited material in the article, which I felt would be more disruptive. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask on my talk page.  When you have the required sourcing (and every assertion needs a source), and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  Or feel free to ping me to take another look.[[User:onel5969|'''<span style="color:#536895;">Onel</span><span style="color:#ffb300;">5969</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Onel5969|<i style="color:blue">TT me</i>]]</sup> 12:07, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

:Your moving of my article to draft space surprises me, since it seems that everything is very well documented. The whole thing has been compiled using the books and articles mentioned in the references, all of which are in respectable academic publications. Having now written more than 50 articles for Wikipedia (several of them awarded grade B by reviewers) your strictures on this one are puzzling! If you could kindly point out one or two places in particular where a more precise citation is needed I would be very grateful. I will then go over those places again and others like them and see what I can do. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 10:39, 5 May 2023 (UTC) I forgot to ping {{ping|Onel5969}}

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[Metron (poetry)]] has been accepted ==
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:Thank you for reviewing my article [[Metron (poetry)]] so rapidly. But I am puzzled why you have decided to give it only "Start" classification. I have examined the criteria carefully. The sources are all highly reliable. The grammar, spelling, writing style, jargon use etc. are all as far as I can see perfectly good. It is now 30000 bytes, which is a good length for such a minor topic. The article seems clearly organised and I can't think of a better way of arranging it. As for the content it covers everything that is written on the subject in all the major textbooks, such as West's ''Greek Metre'', Maas's ''Greek Metre'' and Elwell-Sutton's ''The Persian Metres''; what more could it say without departing into side-topics and irrelevancy? Would you perhaps like more examples of lines of poetry in the metres mentioned? Something on generative metrics? But I deliberately excluded that since it is highly speculative and not particularly relevant to the topic. The quality and length of this article in no way compare to the example given in the criteria of a typical Start-class article ([[Dirty Laundry (Bitter:Sweet song)]]). Please advise, or perhaps consider changing the classification to a C. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 07:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

== "axbār kardan" or "exbār kardan"? ==

Hello. You [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Persian_metres&oldid=prev&diff=1168047914 reverted this edit]. Sincerely, this is not justified. Please look up "exbār kardan" ({{lang|fa|اِخبار کردن}}) in a Persian dictionary (or [https://fa.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1 here]). There are some differences between today and classical Persian; so, there, in that classical verse, you can find the Persian compound verb "exbār kardan". So, simply, the word is not "axbār" (pl. of "xabar"). – [[User:Hamid Hassani|Hamid Hassani]] ([[User talk:Hamid Hassani|talk]]) 19:38, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

:Quite right, I stand corrected. exbār or ixbār it is (right at the end of Steingass's entry). [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 18:01, 1 August 2023 (UTC) – And I have been pronouncing it wrong ever since I saw the poem on the wall of bar of the Irantour Hotel in Isfahan 49 years ago! [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 18:04, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::So, ''durūd bar šumā!'' ({{langx|fa|درود بر شما!}}) – [[User:Hamid Hassani|Hamid Hassani]] ([[User talk:Hamid Hassani|talk]]) 19:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

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== [[Clausula (rhetoric)]] ==

I just wanted to let you know that I found your article on Latin clauses very helpful and instructive. In case you hadn't noticed: I translated the article (with minor changes) for the German Wikipedia, [[:de:Klausel (Rhetorik)]]. [[User:Bildungskind|Bildungskind]] ([[User talk:Bildungskind|talk]]) 13:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

::Well, thank you very much; that's marvellous! Looking over your translation I noticed one or two small errors (there are some in my version also!), which I have corrected. But the corrections may not have appeared yet, since it says: "Dies ist eine ungesichtete Version. Alle 3 Änderungen müssen gesichtet werden, bevor sie Benutzern standardmäßig angezeigt werden." [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 15:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your corrections! The German Wikipedia uses [[:mw:Extension:FlaggedRevs]]. This means that every change made by IPs or users with too few edits must be reviewed by other users. I like the idea, but sometimes it's very buggy. [[User:Bildungskind|Bildungskind]] ([[User talk:Bildungskind|talk]]) 17:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

== Sciascia ==

Hello, i saw ypu changed a link from film to novel for "The day of the owl" in the Leonard Sciascia article and then reverted it. The change seems to me to be correct (even if the book's page is somewhat bad), did you have a particular reason to undo your own edit? (if somebody else had done it i'd have re-reversed it but since it was you i'd thought i'd ask). Best, [[User:Jean Raimbault|jraimbau]] ([[User talk:Jean Raimbault|talk]]) 06:08, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:I was looking for information about the novel, and so changed the link. But later I realised that the paragraph is talking about the films and their dates, so I changed it back. The other three links are also for the page on the film, so it makes sense for this one to direct to the film page as well. [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 08:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you! It seems weird to have references to the movies rather than the original books in the lede but given that the reversal makes perfect sense. Cheers, [[User:Jean Raimbault|jraimbau]] ([[User talk:Jean Raimbault|talk]]) 17:24, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

== Pages on future periphrasis ==

[[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]], I took three photos of the section on future periphrasis because the information is spread in three pages (Vol. 2.1. Pages 160-162). How do I send them to you in K-S per email? [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 07:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:If you received an email notifying you of a change to the article by me, you will see at the bottom a way of contacting me by email. Does that work? [[User:Kanjuzi|Kanjuzi]] ([[User talk:Kanjuzi#top|talk]]) 08:31, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks! I will check! [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 21:04, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::I receive no e-mail when you change the page. Do you have an e-mail alias? [[User:Daniel Couto Vale|Daniel Couto Vale]] ([[User talk:Daniel Couto Vale|talk]]) 21:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

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