View source for Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 27

<noinclude><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
{| width = "100%"
|-
! width="50%" align="left"  | <span style="color:gray">&lt;</span> [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 26|April 26]]
! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 28|April 28]] <span style="color:gray">&gt;</span>
|}
</div></noinclude>

=== April 27 ===
<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.
     Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section
     (to properly order entries and avoid edit conflicts).
     Thank you for your cooperation.
  -->

==== Video gaming ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

This a large group nomination which I think will be best handled in several different groups.  However, these sets all share the same background of a large set of categories being moved out of-process in January 2020, from "video gaming" to "video games".

I spotted this when I noted the following moves:
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Category:2000s_in_video_games&diff=935806590&oldid=883696705] [[:Category:2000s in video gaming]] to [[:Category:2000s in video games]]
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Category:2009_in_video_games&diff=prev&oldid=935806629] [[:Category:2009 in video gaming]] to [[:Category:2009 in video games]]

I raised[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Masem&diff=953514311&oldid=953301467] this with mover {{user|Masem}}, and in the subsequent discussion at [[User talk:Masem#in_video_gaming_→_in_video_games]] <small>([https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Masem&oldid=953545605#in_video_gaming_%E2%86%92_in_video_games permalink])</small> it emerged that there had been a discussion at [[WT:WikiProject Video games/Archive 147#"Video_gaming"/"gaming"_vs_"Video_games"]], after which Masem drafted a [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:Masem/gaming_list&oldid=935180215 list of over 300 article, category and template pages], and proceeded to move them all without recourse to [[WP:RM]], [[WP:CFD]], or any other community-wide forum.

Masem has been helpful and open about this, and agrees that at least in respect of the categories, wider discussion should have taken place.  I am still surprised at the apparent assumption of WikiProject ownership of pages which drove all this, but we are were we are, and the way ahead is to have a properly-notified consensus-forming discussion about this.

Apart from the procedural issues, I have two substantive concerns about these out-of-process moves:
# Many of the new titles arsing from the moves are ambiguous. For example [[:Category:2009 in video gaming]] to [[:Category:2009 in video games]] has created a new title which is confusingly similar to its subcategory [[:Category:2009 video games]].  Ambiguously-named categories confuse both readers and editors, leading to frustrated readers and editors who in good faith miscategorise articles.  Categories don't work well  unless they do what it says on the tin, and these tins are now so poorly-named that we have a collision of titles in [[:Category:Video games by decade]], which contains two separate sets "YYY0s&nbsp;video&nbsp;games" and "YYY0s&nbsp;in&nbsp;video&nbsp;games"
# the parent category for the whole topic is [[:Category:Video gaming]], with sub-categories which include  [[:Category:Video games]] and [[:Category:Video game industry]].  These moves have deprived us of over-arching categories by nationality and by chronology for all things related to video gaming, which should include esports, gamers, events, etc.

I believe that the best solution is to rename them all back to "video gaming" (e.g. moving [[:Category:2009 in video games]] back to [[:Category:2009 in video gaming]]).  Masem prefers to use "video&nbsp;game&nbsp;industry", which I oppose as a narrowing of scope — video gaming is now a broad cultural topic, not simply a case of an industry churning out products.

So I have presented the two alternatives as separate options.  Since the previous moves were done outside of established processes, the default result of a no-consensus outcome should be to restore the ''status quo ante'', i.e. to restore the "video gaming" titles. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 21:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

===== Comments on the broad issue =====
: In discussion with BHG, one of the issues I've observed is that the "all-encompassing" cat in is [[:Category:Video gaming]], but in mainspace, [[Video gaming]] directs appropriately to [[Video game]], which was that way since 2003. If we compare the structure of the [[:Category:Video gaming]] to other media forms like [[:Category:Film]], [[:Category:Comics]], or [[:Category:Television]] as to name a few, which as BHG has pointed out do allow for close naming issues due to the common all-encompassing term, there's an obvious inconsistency that we could resolve in a simpler way by recognizing that "Video game(s)" is the more common all-encompassing term. The changes thus would be needed to resolve that would simply be: 
::# Move all sub-pages and sub-cats of [[:Category:Video gaming]] to [[:Category:Video games]] (excluding Video games) as to empty it for possible deletion
::# Add the three parent cats of [[:Category:Video gaming]] (currently [[:Category:Video]], [[:Category:Gaming]] and [[:Category:Computing]] ) as parent cats to [[:Category:Video games]].
:At which point, I would believe all the issues in terms of naming closeness and all-encompassing term are resolved to BHG's concern.
:'''BUT''' that also now exposes the same problem at the [[:Category:Gaming]] category, which also can be resolved by the same manner by considering "Game(s)" as the all-encompassing term (aligning with [[Game]]) and resolving the cats with:
::# Move all sub-pages and sub-cats of [[:Category:Gaming]] to [[:Category:Games]] (excluding itself) as to empty it for possible deletion
::# Add the three parent cats of [[:Category:Gaming]] (currently [[:Category:Entertainment]], [[:Category:Leisure activities]], and [[:Category:Recreation]] ) as parent cats to [[:Category: Games]].
: This is a far simpler move to achieve the same net resolution, if I am understanding the issues. here. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 22:24, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:::No, no, please for the love of god, just no.
:::Sadly,{{yo|Masem}}, that would only make the situation significantly ''worse''.
:::# It would leave us with the problem created by your out-of-process moves, viz. that the category system would then be trying to use  the phrase "video games" for both the broad ''topic'' and the ''set'' of game software.  That's an irresoluble problem, and it doesn't apply to cinema where there is a distinction between the topic "film" and the set "films".
:::# It would replicate that linguistic problem higher up the category tree, by screwing up the "gaming" category.
:::The mess created by the out-of-process moves is similar to the mess that would result from renaming [[:Category:Computing]] to [[:Category:Computers]]. We'd wind up in knots, unable to distinguish the broad topic from the set of machines.
:::The comparison with "in film"/"films" is misplaced, because while that's unpleasantly close, there is at least a one-letter distinction between the topic "film" and the set of "films".  That doesn't apply here.
:::The comparison with comics only illustrates my point about confusion.  See e.g. how [[:Category:2011 in comics]] is a subcat of [[:Category:2010s comics]]: completely perverse, that inverts the cat hierarchy by making the topic an subcat of the subset.
:::This was all a botched attempt to solve a non-problem.  Please let's restore the status quo ante, rather than making it worse. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 22:50, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I will disagree, in that there are recognizable two meanings in the literature to "Video games", one being the items you buy to put into your game console or computer to play, and the other "Video Games" reflecting all factors the industry and associated businesses, impacts, and the like. Yes, we don't have a singular noun like "Film" to distinguish from "Films", but the distinction is there. And "Video Games" as to refer to the whole is much more common than using "Video gaming" as that's more a slang term. "Video gaming" is used more from the player's side and ignores the people paid to make the games in the first place which is why we wanted to move from it in the first place.
::::The comparison is probably better to [[:Category:Sports]] as I check around; the cat incorporates the collective set of individual sport activities, but the agglomeration of the sports industry, as what I'm suggesting here. But that said, drilling down they don't have categories like [[:Category:2019 sports]], they actually drill to month and have cats like [[:Category:January 2019 sports events]]. Which potentially leads to yet another idea that if it is still collusion of Category:YYYY video games and Category:YYYY in video games that we could take the former to rename it to Category:Video games first released in YYYY, which is compare to the categories under [[:Category:Games by year]]. (They don't have Decade cats, but I'm sure that can be figured out). I just disagree that we can't handle the situation of "Video games" serving as the all-encompassing term and as the individual unit here, as even in short titles context can be determined quickly, in the same manner as sports or film. 
::::I'd argue that rather revert to the status quo, we verify the WP:VG's consensus that "Video games" is a better all-encompassing term for the categorization branch, which yes, may create sub-cat issues. We can find a category naming scheme for the subcat to fit the desired (assuming it stays desired) all-encompassing term, it should not be the case of having the all-encompassing term come to meet the MOS/guidance of categorization and assume all other sub-cats are immovable objects. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 23:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::::: Ultimately this is about clearly distinguishing topic categories from set categories. I agree with User:BrownHairedGirl that [[:Category:Video games]] strongly suggests that it is a set category rather than a topic category. Having this as the name of the topic category will likely lead to articles being miscategorized. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:48, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::: And I disagree with that, as this follows from the same idea that "Sports" is the topic category, whereas "Sports by year" and "Sports by country" serve as set categories. (The same principle applies to the term video games and cats like "Video games by year"). Maybe this is not as clear if one is not heads-deep in the video game literature but this distinction is clear for this field. And again, the suggestion above does exactly one thing: eliminates one category - there's no way the bulk of the categories that exist already underneath it will be misused since neither (currently) the categories "video gaming" nor "video games" should be used for the bulk of articles about video games (individual games or the industry or elements thereof. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 05:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::(ec) {{yo|Masem}} that <ins>post of 23:20</ins> seems to me to me a verbose way of evading a very simple point: that you are trying to use the same term to describe both the broad topic and the set, and ''we do not need to do that''.
:::::The assertion that "video&nbsp;gaming" is {{tq|more a slang term|q=y}} is unsupported by any evidence. 
:::::And when you use a phase like {{tq|the agglomeration of the sports industry|q=y}} as a synonym for "everything to do with sports", I fear that we are slipping away from a  common language.  The idea that notable amateur sports such as for example the [[Gaelic Games]] or [[American College Football]] are part of a {{tq|sports industry|q=y}} is absurd; the reality is actually the inverse, namely that professionalised commercial sport is a ''subset'' of the much wider whole.  The same applies to video gaming: the industry which produces game software is a subset of the wider topic.
:::::As to the so-called {{tq|WP:VG consensus|q=y}} ... that was an un-notified discussion between only 6 editors on a WikiProject page, without a clearly-stated hedaline proposition for editors to accept or reject.  Masem's opening contribution to that discussion included the assertion that {{tq|there is no such thing as a 'video gaming industry'|q=y}}, which is demonstrably false: the term gets [https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22video+gaming+industry%22 24 hits on JSTOR], and [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22video+gaming+industry%22 plenty of hits on google], including the likes of Forbes.com[https://www.forbes.com/sites/ilkerkoksal/2019/11/08/video-gaming-industry--its-revenue-shift/], Yahoo finance[https://finance.yahoo.com/news/videogame-sales-hit-12-high-122312447.html], ''The Times''[https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amazon-enters-video-games-world-via-relentless-with-sci-fi-story-crucible-to-launch-in-may-j8hknh92f], ''[[The Standard (Hong Kong)]]''[https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/2/146324/China's-video-gaming-revenue-jumps-to-73b-yuan], and even [[Nasdaq]][https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/activision-will-ride-the-shelter-in-place-trade-to-new-highs-2020-04-24].
:::::So what we actually have is a wholly un-notified discussion on a project page among very small set of editors, which was founded on demonstrably false assertions.  That was at best a very shaky [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS]], and in reality I don't think it was even that.  That local discussion was then used to bypass the established community-wide discussion processes at [[WP:RM]] and [[WP:CFD]], and do a '''[[WP:RECKLESS]] move of [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:Masem/gaming_list&oldid=935180215 over 300 pages]'''.
:::::I don't see any reason to suspect intentional misconduct, and Masem has readily acknowledged that the whole thing was very badly handled.  It was a good-faith screw-up rather than a conspiracy ... but it's unhelpful for Masem to now double-down on that mishandled local discussion as some sort of basis for proclaiming that there is any valid consensus (even a [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS]]) for Masem's assertion that there is any basis for claiming that there is a consensus that "video&nbsp;games" is {{tq|better all-encompassing term for the categorization branch|q=y}}.
:::::The ''status quo ante'' provided a clear terminological distinction between the broad topic and the set of individual games. We should restore that, and not be swayed by the fact that a small group of editors acted wildly out-of-process on the basis of false assertions which they made in good faith but failed to test against evidence. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 06:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::On the Sports thing, I may have overly simplified but you're missing the point. There's definitely an "industry" that involves the monetization of sporting events, certainly, but the category of Sports includes all facets of any type of organized sport, paid, amateur, whatnot in addition to the parts that deal with the industry. While clearly "sport" described an individual type of activity and multiple such together are "sports", its clear that in other contexts like here, "Sports" is the agglomeration of those events, organizations around those events, players, coaches, teams, industries, sciences, etc. and much more around the playing of sports, and no one is questioning its use there. "Video games" is used in the same fashion, just because "video game" is a singular noun to describe the electronic game you buy and collectively as "video games", "Video games" also reflects the cumulative collection of topics of software, hardware, developers, publishers, players, events, sciences, and the like that are around the playing of video games. 
::::::While there may be 24 hits on JSTOR for "video gaming industry" there are 581 for "video game industry". Going to Google Scholar, "video games" gets 749,000 hits, "video gaming" gives 28,400, and I will point out that if you do that search, you'll notice several of those are related to video gaming relative to addiction/medical implications or the actions of playing video games rather than used as a term for a medium like "Film" or "television". I wasn't trying to say that no one used "video gaming industry" or "video gaming" but by far it is the minority expression compared to using "video games" to talk about the whole of this field.
::::::What the situation is that maybe when all these cats were set out when WP started 10-15 years ago that "video gaming" was still considered a hobby (hence its verb/gerund form). But the last decade we have seen the field become its current form, well beyond the hobbyist nature, into an industry that by monetary value is as large if not larger than film. As a secondary effect, "video gaming" as moved to be a term that's associated with the medical and psychological studies involving video games ala Internet addiction disorder (eg it may not be there yet but it's gaining the same connotation as "gambling", not helped by the recent addition to ICD-11 as "gaming disorder"). 
::::::The problem is: it is near impossible to articulate the sourcing and evidence for why we should be calling the topic area "video games" for this. Unless you've had your head in the field for this time and have seen how it has changed (as those at WT:VG and involved with the noted discussion that led to these cat moves) had, its impossible to point to any authority here - no body "defines" these terms, we just have to see how they get used, which means we have to come to rely on google searches as evidence. I hate say "trust me" on this, but its seriously the best that can be done. I can point to looking at coverage of "video games" and "video gaming" in high quality sources like BBC and NYTimes (works that normally aren't covering individual titles) and note the distinction, but which I find, on a very broad approach, using "video games" to described the individual titles as well as the overall "industry/field" and limit "video gaming" to the act of playing a video game and not related to any of the other factors behind making the game. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::{{yo|Masem}} amidst that pile of red herrings, you are ''still'' evading the two key problems:
:::::::# that using the same title for topic as for the set items creates avoidable ambiguity in category titles, and in some cases an actual clash of titles.
:::::::# that your strange fixation with the word industry is pointless: of course there is a game industry, but it's part of a broader topic of video gaming.
:::::::Your comparisons with other topics entirely misses the fact that they don't have the terminological cash which you created here. 
:::::::For example, under sports we have e.g. sportspeople and sports competitions, so the broad topic uses a different term to those used for the individual instances. Your choice of terminology makes so such distinction. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 17:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Let's ignore the industry factor here, I'm trying to point out that there's more that the term "video games" than just the games themselves, among that includes the industry. Let's not get hung up on some of the aspects here. However I take issue of the claim that this is going to create any additional confusion. For one, this eliminates exactly one category and changes nothing else from how it currently is (after my out-of-process moves). But lets consider where the issues were in categorization in the topic area before my moves.  For example, [[:Category:Video games]] is routinely populated by individual titles that novice editors mistakenly add to that, when they should be adding to subcats for video games by year, platform and genre. My moves didn't change that. Then I would ask, "Okay, what about people dropping games into the "YYYY in video games" instead of "YYYY video games" category?" which as you claim could be confusing. This is harder to do (I could have sworn there was a tool that could help track histories for cats but not having luck finding it), so best I can do is run through the YYYY in video games categories to see if any games are currently misplaced, and the only one I could find going back to 2014 is in [[:Category:2017 in video games]], [[Ice Man (arcade game)]] and that was originally in the wrong cat ("2017 in video gaming") before my renaming. While that's certainly not exhaustive, I would think if there is serious confusion here we would have seen more already. It is a completely fair concern to have two cat names that are so similar without additional context to make determining which is which, but I strongly believe that most people (including IPs) editing in the video game area can understand the difference between "2017 in video games" (to be about the field in general) and "2017 video games" (to be about the set of video games released in 2017). 
::::::::And outside of the "YYYY video games" and "YYYY in video games" possible confusion, the state the categories presently I don't see any other potential issues of confusion. If there, they should be identified, because if the issue is only this above , then we can change "YYYY video games" to "Video games released in YYYY" or similar, and resolves that confusion. 
::::::::And what I'm getting a bit concerned here is that while we're trying to figure how to help make the content fit the process, the process should also adapting to the content as well and not being immutable (NOTBURO and all that). I'm not rejecting the categorization issues here, I want to work within what's established, but I very concerned that the key argument that the expert editors here coming in with, that "video games" is the term used to describe the field over "video gaming" (particularly given the more recent negative connotations of the latter term), is being thrown out by editors not as familiar with the topic areas but experts in the process, because it creates problems. It might create problems but they are resolvable in manners that align with solutions used in other categorization naming systems for other type of media areas, so it is not an impossible task. But it requires cooperative work, and not outright rejection of the idea. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 19:38, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::{{yo|Masem}} the problem is that the {{tq|key argument that the expert editors here coming in with|q=y}} creates avoidable ambiguity is unsupported by evidence or policy.
:::::::::Masem agrees that "video gaming" is widely used, although less prominently used than "video games". But by using the less common term to avoid ambiguity is explicitly endorsed by policy, at [[WP:NATURALDIS]].
:::::::::I assume that by {{tq|exert editors|q=y}}, Masem intends to refers to Masem and [[User:X201|X201]], but X201 offered no evidence and Masem explicitly said {{tq|I hate say "trust me" on this, but its seriously the best that can be done|q=y}}.
:::::::::Now Masem is presenting another argument, viz that "video gaming" has {{tq|negative connotations|q=y}}. That's a thoroughly POV stance: rebranding from an established title to avoid {{tq|negative connotations|q=y}} is something done by public relations manipulators, and should have no place in a [[WP:NPOV]] encyclopedia.  --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Again, its really hard to prove these things out as there's no academic authority of the terms to go "here's the definitive source." All I can say is, look at the hits in a scholarly database or at a high-quality RS if you search on "video gaming" rather than "video games" (particularly in the last ten years) and look at the type of articles and works that come out between the terms (which is what we'd do in any situation to figure out what are common and natural terms, so this is not anything special here either). The bulk of scholarly papers that evoke "video gaming" are typically looking at what impact video game playing has on human development with an emphasis on addictive behavior and towards violence/aggression, and not "video gaming" as establishing the framework of the overall topic of video games. It's laid out there in the search results to take in and consider.  And no, this is not a IDONTLIKE it or a rebranding situation. Again, if it was rebranding to avoid the negative connotation it wouldn't be the dominate term in scholarly searches. The area of video games have gone from a hobby pre 2000 to a major entertainment industry and media today. Calling it "video gaming" then made sense, but not today (as proven out by the scholarly sources) due to the huge numbers of people and finances involved. Its just that the evolution of term from "video gaming" to "video games" to describe the whole of the video game video is not documentable, outside of trends eg [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?cat=533&date=all&q=%22video%20gaming%22,%22video%20game%22 Google Trends]) --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 14:03, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
:"Option C" the current, post move, status quo is a valid proposal too. See if the community is OK with where we've ended up without following the due process; the category titles have actually thrown off their immature names that they earned when Wikipedia was younger and arrived at a much better place. I disagree with the current proposed options. <s>Option B is far too rigid and (I have to be honest) looks like it's there to play it's part in Hobson's choice.</s> I think the discussion should have been allowed to progress further and other solutions discussed before the ballot paper was printed. - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 13:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:*@[[User:X201|X201]]: some misunderstandings there:
::#There is no vote, and no "ballot paper". This is a discussion in which alternative proposals can be made at any time by any participant.
::# There is no need for an "Option C", because the status quo always an option at any XFD: just make a !vote to "keep" or "oppose" 
::# Option B is there because Masem proposed it, and I wanted to make it easy for the community to adopt Masem's preference it chose to do.  I put in a lot of extra work to ensure that the alternative proposal was listed at the outset, and your implication that I acted in bad faith is very unpleasant. I hope that you will promptly strike that suggestion.
::# I despair of comments such as {{tq|their immature names that they earned when Wikipedia was younger and arrived at a much better place|q=y}}. That's just a verbose form of [[WP:ILIKEIT]], which pejoratively labels the previous title as "immature", without either reason or evidence to support that label.  It's just name-calling. [[Appeal to ridicule]] and [[proof by assertion]] don't have a place in consensus-building.--[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 17:18, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::{{ping|BrownHairedGirl}}There was absolutely no indented implication of bad faith. I used the Hobson's choice comparison because that is truly how the choices struck me when I read them. Apologies for any offence caused, that was definitely not my intention, and for the purposes of clarity, I do not think you acted in bad faith. - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 18:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

* So as to throw some interesting fuel on the fire I have gone back into the history of these cats out of curiousity to see what's up because there's some interesting points here that I think reflect that all this here is actually now establishing consensus that was never set before.
** Until 2017, the top level for video games was actually [[:Category:Video games]] since 2007 (original "Computer and video games" in 2004, along with "YYYY computer and video games" cats) but that was shifted in 2007). That was added just a notch over 3 years ago by {{ping|Marcocapelle}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Category:Video_games&diff=777485471&oldid=777482642]. As I'm not seeing any talk page discussions among the edits that add [[:Category:Video gaming]] as a top level (eg placing Cat:Video games and several other cats at that "new" top level nor in the WPVG archive [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Archive_129], that appears to be their unilateral change -- THAT said, I believe I know why they made that change, definitely not in bad faith and logically following what comes from the next major point I found:
** As originally named , the "YYYY in video gaming" categories were created by now banned user [[User:SNAAAAKE!!]] around 15 May 2012 (at least up through 2012, the rest that got made were keeping that format). Snake (not going to spell it out) was banned as they were an over-zealous editor around VG characters. I do not see if they asked in the VG project for this (closest archive would be here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Archive_93]) so arguably using "in video gaming" from the start was selected by one editor without consensus. I can only speculate what the VG project would have selected then if we decided we needed per-year articles in describing the field beyond the already established "YYYY video games" ones. Because Snake created this "YYYY in video gaming" cats, and, until Jan of this year the VG project never really discussed them to determine consensus.
* I will presume that Marcoapelle in category cleanup in 2017 assumed that if we had "YYYY in ZZZZ" categories, then the top level topic was "ZZZZ" and thus promoted that to that topic, without any other discussion to go on, which as I said is a reasonable logical step based solely on the categorization naming approach. But because we're dealing with a system established by a banned user that the VG project is *still* dealing with in terms of cleaning up problematic character articles they created, I would consider their original system tainted, and that we should be considering some fresh approach.  Which to that end: if this is going to require a longer discussion beyond the CFD process, I do not oppose a revert to the status quo until the VG project figures that out, but with the understanding that we may want to go back to this topic structure. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 14:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
:* Hopefully you do not mind that I no longer remember this edit, or remember why I made the edit, and I am not going to speculate about it. Presumably it does not matter, I'm perfectly fine if there is consensus in this discussion to either revert or to keep it. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
::* That's why I'm fully assuming good faith in your edit and don't think your actions are the reasons we're at this point, as I looked around your contributions at the time (amid a huge number of other category maintenance things not just in video games), and your actions all seemed consistent with the nature of seeing "YYYY in video gaming" and presuming "video gaming" was the "topic category" per WP:CAT, as you also sorted a few other categories and some pages up into "video gaming" alongside "video games". Stuff that we're not catching until now and seeing that something was amiss before your changes. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 20:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Video gaming by time ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Option A''' [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 20:20, 6 May 2020 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->

:'''Propose renaming''', either:
:; '''Option A''': restore "video gaming"
:# [[:Category:Years of the 20th century in video games]] to [[:Category:Years of the 20th century in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:Years of the 21st century in video games]] to [[:Category:Years of the 21st century in video gaming]]
{{Collapse top|73 more "in video games" to "in video gaming"}}
:# [[:Category:1940s in video games]] to [[:Category:1940s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1950s in video games]] to [[:Category:1950s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1960s in video games]] to [[:Category:1960s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1970s in video games]] to [[:Category:1970s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1980s in video games]] to [[:Category:1980s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1990s in video games]] to [[:Category:1990s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2000s in video games]] to [[:Category:2000s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2010s in video games]] to [[:Category:2010s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2020s in video games]] to [[:Category:2020s in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1947 in video games]] to [[:Category:1947 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1948 in video games]] to [[:Category:1948 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1950 in video games]] to [[:Category:1950 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1951 in video games]] to [[:Category:1951 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1952 in video games]] to [[:Category:1952 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1953 in video games]] to [[:Category:1953 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1955 in video games]] to [[:Category:1955 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1958 in video games]] to [[:Category:1958 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1960 in video games]] to [[:Category:1960 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1962 in video games]] to [[:Category:1962 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1968 in video games]] to [[:Category:1968 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1969 in video games]] to [[:Category:1969 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1970 in video games]] to [[:Category:1970 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1971 in video games]] to [[:Category:1971 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1972 in video games]] to [[:Category:1972 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1973 in video games]] to [[:Category:1973 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1974 in video games]] to [[:Category:1974 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1975 in video games]] to [[:Category:1975 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1976 in video games]] to [[:Category:1976 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1977 in video games]] to [[:Category:1977 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1978 in video games]] to [[:Category:1978 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1979 in video games]] to [[:Category:1979 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1980 in video games]] to [[:Category:1980 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1981 in video games]] to [[:Category:1981 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1982 in video games]] to [[:Category:1982 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1983 in video games]] to [[:Category:1983 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1984 in video games]] to [[:Category:1984 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1985 in video games]] to [[:Category:1985 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1986 in video games]] to [[:Category:1986 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1987 in video games]] to [[:Category:1987 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1988 in video games]] to [[:Category:1988 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1989 in video games]] to [[:Category:1989 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1990 in video games]] to [[:Category:1990 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1991 in video games]] to [[:Category:1991 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1992 in video games]] to [[:Category:1992 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1993 in video games]] to [[:Category:1993 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1994 in video games]] to [[:Category:1994 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1995 in video games]] to [[:Category:1995 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1996 in video games]] to [[:Category:1996 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1997 in video games]] to [[:Category:1997 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1998 in video games]] to [[:Category:1998 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:1999 in video games]] to [[:Category:1999 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2000 in video games]] to [[:Category:2000 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2001 in video games]] to [[:Category:2001 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2002 in video games]] to [[:Category:2002 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2003 in video games]] to [[:Category:2003 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2004 in video games]] to [[:Category:2004 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2005 in video games]] to [[:Category:2005 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2006 in video games]] to [[:Category:2006 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2007 in video games]] to [[:Category:2007 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2008 in video games]] to [[:Category:2008 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2009 in video games]] to [[:Category:2009 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2010 in video games]] to [[:Category:2010 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2011 in video games]] to [[:Category:2011 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2012 in video games]] to [[:Category:2012 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2013 in video games]] to [[:Category:2013 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2014 in video games]] to [[:Category:2014 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2015 in video games]] to [[:Category:2015 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2016 in video games]] to [[:Category:2016 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2017 in video games]] to [[:Category:2017 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2018 in video games]] to [[:Category:2018 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2019 in video games]] to [[:Category:2019 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2020 in video games]] to [[:Category:2020 in video gaming]]
:# [[:Category:2021 in video games]] to [[:Category:2021 in video gaming]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:; '''Option B''': Use  "video game industry"
:# [[:Category:Years of the 20th century in video games]] to [[:Category:Years of the 20th century in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:Years of the 21st century in video games]] to [[:Category:Years of the 21st century in the video game industry]]
{{Collapse top|73 more "in video games" to "in the video game industry"}}
:# [[:Category:1940s in video games]] to [[:Category:1940s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1950s in video games]] to [[:Category:1950s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1960s in video games]] to [[:Category:1960s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1970s in video games]] to [[:Category:1970s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1980s in video games]] to [[:Category:1980s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1990s in video games]] to [[:Category:1990s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2000s in video games]] to [[:Category:2000s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2010s in video games]] to [[:Category:2010s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2020s in video games]] to [[:Category:2020s in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1947 in video games]] to [[:Category:1947 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1948 in video games]] to [[:Category:1948 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1950 in video games]] to [[:Category:1950 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1951 in video games]] to [[:Category:1951 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1952 in video games]] to [[:Category:1952 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1953 in video games]] to [[:Category:1953 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1955 in video games]] to [[:Category:1955 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1958 in video games]] to [[:Category:1958 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1960 in video games]] to [[:Category:1960 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1962 in video games]] to [[:Category:1962 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1968 in video games]] to [[:Category:1968 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1969 in video games]] to [[:Category:1969 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1970 in video games]] to [[:Category:1970 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1971 in video games]] to [[:Category:1971 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1972 in video games]] to [[:Category:1972 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1973 in video games]] to [[:Category:1973 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1974 in video games]] to [[:Category:1974 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1975 in video games]] to [[:Category:1975 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1976 in video games]] to [[:Category:1976 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1977 in video games]] to [[:Category:1977 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1978 in video games]] to [[:Category:1978 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1979 in video games]] to [[:Category:1979 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1980 in video games]] to [[:Category:1980 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1981 in video games]] to [[:Category:1981 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1982 in video games]] to [[:Category:1982 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1983 in video games]] to [[:Category:1983 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1984 in video games]] to [[:Category:1984 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1985 in video games]] to [[:Category:1985 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1986 in video games]] to [[:Category:1986 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1987 in video games]] to [[:Category:1987 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1988 in video games]] to [[:Category:1988 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1989 in video games]] to [[:Category:1989 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1990 in video games]] to [[:Category:1990 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1991 in video games]] to [[:Category:1991 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1992 in video games]] to [[:Category:1992 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1993 in video games]] to [[:Category:1993 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1994 in video games]] to [[:Category:1994 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1995 in video games]] to [[:Category:1995 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1996 in video games]] to [[:Category:1996 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1997 in video games]] to [[:Category:1997 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1998 in video games]] to [[:Category:1998 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:1999 in video games]] to [[:Category:1999 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2000 in video games]] to [[:Category:2000 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2001 in video games]] to [[:Category:2001 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2002 in video games]] to [[:Category:2002 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2003 in video games]] to [[:Category:2003 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2004 in video games]] to [[:Category:2004 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2005 in video games]] to [[:Category:2005 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2006 in video games]] to [[:Category:2006 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2007 in video games]] to [[:Category:2007 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2008 in video games]] to [[:Category:2008 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2009 in video games]] to [[:Category:2009 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2010 in video games]] to [[:Category:2010 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2011 in video games]] to [[:Category:2011 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2012 in video games]] to [[:Category:2012 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2013 in video games]] to [[:Category:2013 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2014 in video games]] to [[:Category:2014 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2015 in video games]] to [[:Category:2015 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2016 in video games]] to [[:Category:2016 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2017 in video games]] to [[:Category:2017 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2018 in video games]] to [[:Category:2018 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2019 in video games]] to [[:Category:2019 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2020 in video games]] to [[:Category:2020 in the video game industry]]
:# [[:Category:2021 in video games]] to [[:Category:2021 in the video game industry]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:'''Nominator's rationale''': rename to "gaming" per Option&nbsp;A to revert the out-of-process moves, and restore the pre-existing format "gaming" to clarify the scope as being inclusive of everything related to video gaming: the games, the industry, esports, players, social issues, cultural topics, etc. Note that Masem's preference of "games&nbsp;industry" (Option&nbsp;B) would exclude all those topics. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 21:53, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Option A''' - this seems to cover say [[:Category:1990 in video games]] better than Option B (or the present name). [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 00:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Weak preference for B''', per [[User:Masem]] option A is a term that is mainly used for usage of video games, while option B focuses too much on the producer side, but I think with option B it is slightly clearer that it is all-encompassing. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:*@[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], a rename to "video game industry" would be a significant narrowing of scope, because video gaming is not just about the industry.  It would mean that for example:
::#[[:Category:2020 in esports]] would no longer fit in what was [[:Category:2020 in video gaming]].  Sports are a social topic, not an industrial topic.
::#[[Jacksonville Landing shooting]] would no longer fit in  what was  [[:Category:2018 in video gaming]]. A shooting is a social topic, not an industrial topic.
::#[[2017 Wichita swatting]] would no longer fit in  what was  [[:Category:2017 in video gaming]]. Criminal harassment is a socio-legal topic, not an industrial topic.
::#the huge topic of [[Gamergate controversy]]  would no longer fit in  what was  [[:Category:2016 in video gaming]]. Misogynistic harassment is a socio-legal topic, not an industrial topic.
::#[[Crash Override Network]]  would no longer fit in  what was  [[:Category:2015 in video gaming]].  A support group is is a social topic, not an industrial topic.
::Why do that? How would it help our readers to exclude those topics from the video gaming chronology categories? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 06:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
::* Just to clarify, my intention is certainly not to remove any content. The question for me is which category name would be recognized better as a catch-all name. As noted, I am sensitive to the likelihood that "video gaming" is mainly associated with the actual playing of video games. But I do recognize that both names are not ideal, so therefore a weak vote. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::* @[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], if you don't want to exclude any content, then why support a  title which clearly would exclude those topics? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small>
::::* Same question, same answer. Or let's put it differently, neither A nor B is clearly all-encompassing so I am open to a new option C, e.g. as suggested below, or something else (and meanwhile I am weakly preferring B over A). [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::*@[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], so you fear that Option A ''may'' not be wholly inclusive, so you choose Option B which ''definitely'' excludes a whole rage of topics. Very odd. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::* We appear to disagree on which is the most exclusive. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Option A''' as more broad topic. [[Special:Contributions/94.179.168.56|94.179.168.56]] ([[User talk:94.179.168.56|talk]]) 15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''For consideration''': name the topic category "Video games" and the set category "Individual video games". Yes I know it's not ideal either, even worse it is in contrast to what I wrote before in response to User:Masem, but we do have this structure elsewhere. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
**@[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]]: any examples of that other usage? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*** It is done in [[:Category:Games by year]] (for tabletop games) presumably due to how often such games can get re-printed. eg: [[:Category:Board games introduced in 2019]]. This would not hurt for video games given the extensive nature of porting and rereleases as well. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:33, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*** There is {{cl|Horses}}, topic category, and {{cl|Individual horses}}, set subcat. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 23:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Option A''', it communicates that it's a broad catch-all topic the best of the options.  [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 17:00, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Video gaming by country ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Option A'''<!-- Template:Cfd top --> [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 20:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:'''Propose renaming''', either:
:; '''Option A''': restore "video gaming"
:# [[:Category:Video games by country]] to [[:Category:Video gaming by country]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Argentina]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Argentina]]
{{Collapse top|70 more "Video games in" to "Video gaming in"}}
:# [[:Category:Video games in Armenia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Armenia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Australia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Australia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Austria]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Austria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Bangladesh]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Bangladesh]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Belarus]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Belarus]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Belgium]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Belgium]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Brazil]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Brazil]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Bulgaria]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Bulgaria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Cameroon]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Cameroon]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Canada]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Canada]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Chile]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Chile]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in China]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in China]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Colombia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Colombia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Croatia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Croatia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Cyprus]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Cyprus]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Denmark]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Denmark]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Estonia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Estonia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Finland]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Finland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in France]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in France]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Germany]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Germany]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ghana]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Ghana]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Greece]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Greece]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Hungary]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Hungary]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Iceland]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Iceland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in India]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in India]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Indonesia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Indonesia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Iran]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Iran]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ireland]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Ireland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Israel]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Israel]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Italy]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Italy]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Japan]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Japan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Jordan]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Jordan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Kenya]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Kenya]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Lebanon]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Lebanon]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Lithuania]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Lithuania]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Malaysia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Malaysia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Mexico]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Mexico]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in New Zealand]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in New Zealand]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Nigeria]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Nigeria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Norway]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Norway]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Pakistan]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Pakistan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Peru]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Peru]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Poland]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Poland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Portugal]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Portugal]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Romania]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Romania]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Russia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Russia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Saudi Arabia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Saudi Arabia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Serbia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Serbia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Singapore]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Singapore]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Slovakia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Slovakia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in South Africa]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in South Africa]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in South Korea]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in South Korea]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Spain]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Spain]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Sweden]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Sweden]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Switzerland]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Switzerland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Taiwan]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Taiwan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Thailand]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Thailand]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Tunisia]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Tunisia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Turkey]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Turkey]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ukraine]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Ukraine]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Uruguay]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Uruguay]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Venezuela]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Venezuela]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Vietnam]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Vietnam]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Zimbabwe]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in Zimbabwe]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Czech Republic]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the Czech Republic]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Netherlands]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the Netherlands]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Philippines]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the Philippines]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United Arab Emirates]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the United Arab Emirates]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United Kingdom]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the United Kingdom]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United States]] to [[:Category:Video gaming in the United States]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:; '''Option B''': restore "video game industry"
:# [[:Category:Video games by country]] to [[:Category:Video game industry by country]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Argentina]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Argentina]]
{{Collapse top|70 more "Video games in" to "Video game industry in"}}
:# [[:Category:Video games in Armenia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Armenia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Australia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Australia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Austria]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Austria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Bangladesh]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Bangladesh]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Belarus]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Belarus]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Belgium]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Belgium]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Brazil]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Brazil]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Bulgaria]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Bulgaria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Cameroon]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Cameroon]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Canada]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Canada]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Chile]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Chile]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in China]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in China]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Colombia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Colombia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Croatia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Croatia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Cyprus]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Cyprus]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Denmark]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Denmark]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Estonia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Estonia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Finland]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Finland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in France]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in France]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Germany]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Germany]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ghana]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Ghana]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Greece]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Greece]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Hungary]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Hungary]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Iceland]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Iceland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in India]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in India]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Indonesia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Indonesia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Iran]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Iran]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ireland]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Ireland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Israel]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Israel]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Italy]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Italy]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Japan]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Japan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Jordan]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Jordan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Kenya]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Kenya]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Lebanon]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Lebanon]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Lithuania]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Lithuania]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Malaysia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Malaysia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Mexico]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Mexico]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in New Zealand]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in New Zealand]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Nigeria]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Nigeria]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Norway]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Norway]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Pakistan]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Pakistan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Peru]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Peru]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Poland]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Poland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Portugal]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Portugal]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Romania]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Romania]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Russia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Russia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Saudi Arabia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Saudi Arabia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Serbia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Serbia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Singapore]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Singapore]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Slovakia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Slovakia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in South Africa]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in South Africa]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in South Korea]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in South Korea]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Spain]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Spain]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Sweden]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Sweden]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Switzerland]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Switzerland]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Taiwan]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Taiwan]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Thailand]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Thailand]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Tunisia]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Tunisia]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Turkey]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Turkey]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Ukraine]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Ukraine]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Uruguay]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Uruguay]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Venezuela]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Venezuela]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Vietnam]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Vietnam]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in Zimbabwe]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in Zimbabwe]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Czech Republic]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the Czech Republic]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Netherlands]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the Netherlands]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the Philippines]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the Philippines]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United Arab Emirates]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the United Arab Emirates]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United Kingdom]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the United Kingdom]]
:# [[:Category:Video games in the United States]] to [[:Category:Video game industry in the United States]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:'''Nominator's rationale''': rename to "gaming" per Option&nbsp;A to revert the out-of-process moves, and restore the pre-existing format "gaming" to clarify the scope as being inclusive of everything related to video gaming: the games, the industry, esports, players, social issues, cultural topics, etc. Note that Masem's preference of "games&nbsp;industry" (Option&nbsp;B) would exclude all those topics. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 21:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Option A''' - an uninvolved editor expects [[:Category:Video games in the United Kingdom]] to be a set category of articles on video games, whereas it contains people, industries etc. I would interpret 'video gaming' as a suitable term for the whole topic, not merely the act of playing video games. (This must be the longest nom ever at cfd.) [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 23:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Option A''' is more broad. Category outlined in '''Option B''' could be useful too but it should be a subcategory. Gaming culture would fit in A but not B. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 11:33, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Option A''' as more broad topic. [[Special:Contributions/94.179.168.56|94.179.168.56]] ([[User talk:94.179.168.56|talk]]) 15:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:"Part of a series on" sidebar templates ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Rename'''<!-- Template:Cfd top --> [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 18:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:"Part of a series on" sidebar templates]] to [[:Category:Sidebar templates by topic]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' While some topic/subject sidebars says "Part of a series on" in the title, not all do. Ultimately, the choice of styling for the header perhaps shouldn't be reflected in the category name. After all, the category seems to be just that: a category for sidebars, subcategorised by topic/subject. As such, arguably comparable to equivalent template categories in [[:Category:Wikipedia templates by topic]]. Furthrmore, as such, [[:Category:Sidebar templates]] could then be a container category potentially just including [[Template:Sidebar]], [[Template:Sidebar with collapsible lists]], and [[Template:Helpbox]] (which are all by the way nominated for merges at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 April 20]]). [[User:PPEMES|PPEMES]] ([[User talk:PPEMES|talk]]) 11:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="background:Black;padding:1px 5px">[[User:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">b</b>]][[User talk:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">uidh</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|<b style="color: White">e</b>]]</span> 21:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:'''Support renaming''' per the logic laid out by the nominator. [[User:UnitedStatesian|UnitedStatesian]] ([[User talk:UnitedStatesian|talk]]) 22:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Local elections in Japan ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Merge'''<!-- Template:Cfd top --> [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Kyoto‎]] to [[:Category:Kyoto]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Kiso District, Nagano‎]] to [[:Category:Kiso, Nagano (town)]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Minamimaki, Nagano‎]] to [[:Category:Minamimaki, Nagano]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Miyota, Nagano‎]] to [[:Category:Miyota, Nagano‎]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Fujimi, Saitama‎‎]] to [[:Category:Fujimi, Saitama‎]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Saitama (city)‎‎]] to [[:Category:Saitama (city)‎]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Warabi, Saitama‎‎]] to [[:Category:Warabi, Saitama]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Inagi, Tokyo‎‎]] to [[:Category:Inagi, Tokyo‎]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elections in Komae, Tokyo‎‎]] to [[:Category:Komae, Tokyo]]
: '''Nominator's rationale: merge''' per [[WP:SMALLCAT]], only one or two articles in the above categories. Most of them are about mayoral elections which are already in [[:Category:Mayoral elections in Japan]] (so a second merge target is not necessary) but two articles [[2007 Warabi city assembly election]] and [[2007 Komae city assembly election]] should be added manually to [[:Category:Local elections in Japan]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 09:23, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="background:Black;padding:1px 5px">[[User:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">b</b>]][[User talk:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">uidh</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|<b style="color: White">e</b>]]</span> 21:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:*'''Merge for Now''' Clicked through these and they're too small to aid navigation. No objection to recreating though if they ever get up to 5 or so articles. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''Move to [[:Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic]]''' per proposal from {{noping|Peterkingiron}} <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> --[[User:Puddleglum2.0|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:navy;">Puddleglum</span>]][[User talk:Puddleglum2.0|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:silver;"><sup>2.0</sup></span>]]<sub>([[Special:contributions/Puddleglum2.0|How's my driving]]?)</sub> 16:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic]] to [[:Category:2020 deaths from coronavirus disease 2019]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' More precise - people die from the disease, not the pandemic. Ditto for subcategories. Create a "2019..." category, and a parent "Category:Deaths from coronavirus disease 2019" if needed. 

:See [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 March 27#Category:Deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic|previous discussion]], which was put on hold pending [[Talk:List of deaths due to coronavirus disease 2019#Requested move 20 March 2020|this RM]], which resulted in the equivalent page move. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 10:32, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''' - per nom. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 11:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' -- but to [[:Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic]] per consensus emerging on yesterday's page.  We may need an annual split in due course, though I suspect that there were no notable 2019 deaths, but it is too soon for that.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 15:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
**There is no such consensus on that page. If you want to use COVID-19 pandemic in category names, then you should initiate a successful RM on the main article first. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust]] <sup>[[User talk:Armbrust|<span style="color: #E3A857;">The</span> <span style="color: #008000;">Homunculus</span>]]</sup> 21:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
*: {{Re|Peterkingiron}} would you kindly provide a link to yesterday's discussion, for those who were not here yesterday?
*'''Weak oppose'''. A lot of the deaths are from complications brought about from the disease rather than the virus itself. The one person I know personally who has died, for example, had a stroke while in an induced coma after becoming infected. See also {{cl|Deaths from the 1889–1890 flu pandemic‎}}. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 04:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Mild support''' but to [[:Category:2020 deaths due to coronavirus disease 2019|Category:2020 deaths '''due to''' coronavirus disease 2019]], because this is what the [[Talk:List of deaths due to coronavirus disease 2019#Requested move 20 March 2020|article discussion]] cited as rationale concluded. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose.''' It's a change from clear wording to a very convoluted wording. Not opposed to an alternative proposal such as Peterkingiron's. [[User:The Drover&#39;s Wife|The Drover&#39;s Wife]] ([[User talk:The Drover&#39;s Wife|talk]]) 23:03, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' the nom's proposal. '''Support alt''' proposal by Peterkingiron.--[[User:Darwinek|Darwinek]] ([[User talk:Darwinek|talk]]) 00:13, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="background:Black;padding:1px 5px">[[User:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">b</b>]][[User talk:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">uidh</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|<b style="color: White">e</b>]]</span> 21:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
*'''Oppose'''.  This would turn a clear title into a convoluted one.  None of the alternatives proposed so far adds any clarity, and Peterkingiron's proposal appears based on an assumption about the outcome of some other discussion which is not identified.
:Note that [[Talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic#Requested_move_26_April_2020]] is still open.  I make no predictions about the outcome of that RM, and any decision about category names should await that outcome. I suggest that this discussion be closed, and a new group CFD be opened if and when a new title is chosen for the head article. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 07:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Alt rename''' to {{cat|2019–20 coronavirus pandemic deaths}} per main article [[2019–20 coronavirus pandemic deaths]]. [[Special:Contributions/94.179.168.56|94.179.168.56]] ([[User talk:94.179.168.56|talk]]) 15:24, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' There seems to be some confusion between the year of death and the year of COVID-19. Are we going to have 2021 deaths from coronavirus disease 2019 and 2022 deaths from coronavirus disease 2019? I see no problem with the original name. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 19:13, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic]] per consensus at the main article and cat renames underway. [[User:Elizium23|Elizium23]] ([[User talk:Elizium23|talk]]) 02:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
*Why not {{cat|Deaths from COVID-19}} (dicease, not pandemic)? [[Special:Contributions/92.113.82.13|92.113.82.13]] ([[User talk:92.113.82.13|talk]]) 17:40, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic]]. [[User:Starzoner|Starzoner]] ([[User talk:Starzoner|talk]]) 21:35, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Japanese school categories ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''procedural close'''. The nominated categories were not tagged, and no targets for merging were given. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 04:06, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' multiple Japanese overseas school categories by country into categories by continent
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Hi! I'd like to merge categories which each have fewer than five articles (including daughter in categories) from multiple country-based categories to continent-based ones.

The continent categories in question:
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Asia]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Europe]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in North America]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Oceania]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in South America]]

The following continent-based categories ''have enough schools to remain viable'':
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Australia]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in China]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Germany]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in the United Kingdom]]
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in the United States]]

The following continent-based categories ''have potential to remain viable'':
* [[:Category:Japanese international schools in Brazil]] (there are other Japanese international schools in Brazil that were once in operation but have since closed)

The other relevant country-based categories should be merged into the continent-based categories. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 19:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

* '''Procedural comment''', the categories to be merged are neither properly listed nor tagged, this way the proposal cannot be processed. See other examples on this page for listing, see instructions at [[WP:CFD]] for tagging. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 03:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''.  The nomination is malformed: it does not list any merge targets, so it is not possible to evaluate it.  And per [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], the categories are not tagged. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 07:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Ayatollahs and grand ayatollahs====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 14%23Ayatollahs and grand ayatollahs]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Opponents of compulsory hijab ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete'''<!-- Template:Cfd top --> [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 11:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Opponents of compulsory hijab}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Categorizing people by their personal opinions is subject to [[WP:OPINIONCAT]]. [[User:Pahlevun|Pahlevun]] ([[User talk:Pahlevun|talk]]) 17:59, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per nom, possibly listify. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 04:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per nom. This is a [[WP:OPINIONCAT]]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 07:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Textbook [[WP:OPINIONCAT]]. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 17:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' the compulsory hijab is a highly sensitive political and cultural issue, and is relevant to the topic of [[Women in Islam]]. This is not simply a opinion, but an important issue, and for some members of this category, especially [[Homa Darabi]], it is central to their notability. [[WP:OPINIONCAT]] therefore does not apply. [[User:Inter&#38;anthro|Inter&#38;anthro]] ([[User talk:Inter&#38;anthro|talk]]) 02:37, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
:* Take [[Huda Sha'arawi]] for example. A feminist for sure (she is categorized as a feminist) and the hijab is just one of multiple topics she had an opinion about. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 04:39, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Thai descent ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge and delete'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 04:11, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:American models of Thai descent]] to [[:Category:American models]] and {{cl|American people of Thai descent}}
:* '''Propose merging''' {{cl|American actors of Thai descent}} to [[:Category:American actors]] and {{cl|American people of Thai descent}}
:* '''Propose merging''' {{cl|American military personnel of Thai descent}} to [[:Category:American military personnel]] and {{cl|American people of Thai descent}}
:* '''Propose merging''' {{cl|American writers of Thai descent}} to [[:Category:American writers]] and {{cl|American people of Thai descent}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Dual upmerge. Small category (4 articles) of a non-notable triple intersection of nationality, ethnicity, and occupation. [[User:Namiba]] 17:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Merge per nom''' as unnecessary intersections of descent and occupation. {{Re|Namiba}} I took the liberty to present your nomination in a slightly more readable format, per the example given at [[WP:CFD#HOWTO]] for bundled nominations. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 16:20, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' intersection and "descent" [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 21:57, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Mayors of places in New Jersey ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 07:21, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Boonton, New Jersey}}<br />
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Bergenfield, New Jersey}}<br />
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Bogota, New Jersey}}<br />
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Cliffside Park, New Jersey}}<br>
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Paramus, New Jersey}}<br />
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mayors of Fair Lawn, New Jersey}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' categories has ridiculously small number of articles and that's not likely to change. [[User:Rusf10|Rusf10]] ([[User talk:Rusf10|talk]]) 16:06, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' to [[:Category:Mayors of places in New Jersey]], there is no reason to remove the articles from this tree. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' and suggest adding the mayoral categories for Lakewood Township, Matawan, Verona, and Ridgefield as well.--[[User:Namiba]] 20:00, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per Marcoapelle.[[User:WilliamJE|...William]], is the complaint department really on [[User talk:WilliamJE|the roof?]] 20:23, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Gentlemen Ushers of the Black Rod ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 07:24, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Gentlemen Ushers of the Black Rod]] to [[:Category:Ushers of the Black Rod]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' procedural nomination, two different suggestions for renaming were offered at [[WP:CFDS]], namely [[:Category:Ushers of the Black Rod]] or [[:Category:Black Rod]], in either case to make the category name gender-neutral. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 13:33, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
<div style="margin-left:0"><!-- NOTE: width renders incorrectly if added to main STYLE section -->
{| <!-- Template:Collapse top --> class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed " style="background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"
|-
! style="background: #{{main other|F0F2F5|CCFFCC}}; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center; " | <div style="display:inline;font-size:115%">copy of CFDS discussion</div>   

|-
| style="border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: White;" |
* [[:Category:Gentlemen Ushers of the Black Rod]] to [[:Category:Black Rod]] – C2D with [[Black Rod]]; also moves category to gender-neutral title now that the current holder's title is ''Lady'' Usher. &mdash;&nbsp;<span style="font-family:'Trajan Pro','Perpetua Titling MT',Perpetua,serif">'''[[User:Ravenpuff|<span style="color:#22254a">RAVEN</span><span style="color:#996e00">PVFF</span>]]'''</span>&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b> ''[[User talk:Ravenpuff|talk]]''&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b> 00:56, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
** '''Oppose''' because the category contains holders of that office which calls for the name to be plural, however, I do agree that it needs to be gender-neutral. I'd rather support renaming it to "Category:Ushers of the Black Rod". — [[User:1857a|1857a]] ([[User talk:1857a|talk]]) 00:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
** I would also support [[:Category:Ushers of the Black Rod]]. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 11:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
*** Well that's an interesting idea, but I don't think that would be speediable. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust]] <sup>[[User talk:Armbrust|<span style="color: #E3A857;">The</span> <span style="color: #008000;">Homunculus</span>]]</sup> 13:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
{{cob}}
: {{ping|Ravenpuff|1857a|Oculi|Armbrust}} pinging contributors to CFDS discussion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 13:34, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Rename'''  to [[:Category:Ushers of the Black Rod]] per nom. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 14:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* I support renaming to "Ushers of the Black Rod" now that the office-holder is female. This formulation aptly covers all cases. [[User:Clerkly|Clerkly]] ([[User talk:Clerkly|talk]]) 16:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Rename'''  to [[:Category:Ushers of the Black Rod]] per nom. — [[User:1857a|1857a]] ([[User talk:1857a|talk]]) 19:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Secular basilicas ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 04:01, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Secular basilicas]] to [[:Category:Basilicas]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''upmerge''' per [[WP:SMALLCAT]], and besides "secular" is not a very defining characteristic of these articles, and besides the parent category is not very densely populated either. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 13:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:*'''Merge''' [[Aula Palatina]] explains that it has a church in it and for the Roman subcategory, the word was used differently. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:31, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
::It also says that it was originally a secular building that was later re-purposed as a church. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 07:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' As the Basilica category says, "The term has three distinct meanings in the English language.". Each meaning should have its own category. Plus it fails the small test (<=3). Plus it has potential for growth (Constantinople & the eastern Empire). [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 12:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Laurel Lodged's reasoning. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 16:47, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Civic basilicas]].  A basilica was a hall (normally attached to a forum) where certain public business was done.  Some later became churches, which is the common sense of basilica.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Ships of Washington (state) ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 18:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Ships of Washington (state)]] to [[:Category:Ships built in Washington (state)]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' <s>'''merge''', presumably the two categories have the same purpose. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 09:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)</s> ''is no longer applicable''
* '''Oppose''' – [[:Category:Ships of Washington (state)]] should refer to ships ''based'' in Washington; [[:Category:Ships built in Washington (state)]] refers to ships ''built'' in Washington.
:*Counterproposal of '''Rename and sort through''' [[:Category:Ships of Washington (state)]] to [[:Category:Ships based in Washington (state)]], re-categorising member pages/subcategories to [[:Category:Ships built in Washington (state)]] where appropriate. [[User:WT79 The Engineer|WT79 The Engineer]] ([[User talk:WT79 The Engineer|talk]]) 14:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Related Category Tree''' We also have [[:Category:Steamboats of the Pacific Northwest]] with subcategories for Alaska, Oregon and BC. We should use whatever solution we develop here as an approach for those as well.  [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 17:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Concern''' I think based in a state is defining for the old steamships (most of which were also built there) and spent their whole career in one area. My concern is that this category could become a [[WP:PERFCAT]] for Navy ships based in Bremerton or other ships that had many home ports during their careers. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 17:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
:* I share this concern. Changing vote to '''weak delete'''. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="background:Black;padding:1px 5px">[[User:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">b</b>]][[User talk:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">uidh</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|<b style="color: White">e</b>]]</span> 10:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:*'''Lean Toward Delete''' I guess if I keep commenting I should vote. While this is conceptually a reasonable parent category to [[:Category:Steamboats of Washington (state)]], that category is already well parented and this category would likely accumulate ships that were stationed in Washington State (among other posts) and not defined by it. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 11:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Ambrosiana ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 07:26, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Ambrosiana}}<br />
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Ambrosiana collections}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''', too little content in these categories. Note that the main article, the manuscripts category and the paintings category have been interlinked in the header of the latter two category pages, so there is no loss of information while deleting the nominated categories. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="background:Black;padding:1px 5px">[[User:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">b</b>]][[User talk:Buidhe|<b style="color: White">uidh</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|<b style="color: White">e</b>]]</span> 10:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
* '''Merge''' the sub-cat to [[:Category:Collections of museums in Italy]]. '''Note:''' The sub-cat was not tagged until today. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 10:51, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
:* Yes, that is the better solution. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:38, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People connected with Tavistock ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''purge and merge'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 18:10, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People connected with Tavistock]] to [[:Category:People from Tavistock]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People connected with Plymouth]] to [[:Category:People from Plymouth‎]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Misguided attempt to separate people who live there from all the others who are "from" there. From is ambiguous. This causes problems, but I think we have to live with them.   [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 10:13, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Purge and merge''', for example [[Andrew Russell, 15th Duke of Bedford]] isn't even from Tavistock, so that article should be purged as a matter of [[WP:OCASSOC]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:03, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Purge and merge''' per Marcocapelle. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 07:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Purge and merge''' -- The Duke of Bedford before inheriting that title would have the courtesy title Marquis of Tavistock.  The family have (or had) an estate in the area, but they are not "from" there.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Sex horror films====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 6%23Category:Sex horror films]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Catholic cathedrals by city ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' except for Brasilia. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 22:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals by city]]
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals by city]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Beirut]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Beirut]] and [[:Category:Catholic churches in Beirut]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Buenos Aires]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Buenos Aires]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Cairo]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Cairo]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Istanbul]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Istanbul]] and [[:Category:Catholic churches in Istanbul]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Jerusalem]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Jerusalem]] and [[:Category:Catholic churches in Jerusalem]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in London]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in London]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Los Angeles]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Los Angeles]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Montreal]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Montreal]] ''(and add [[Saint Sauveur Cathedral]] to [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Quebec]])''
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Paris]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Paris]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in São Paulo]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in São Paulo]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Sydney]] to [[:Category:Cathedrals in Sydney]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in Beijing]] to [[:Category:Roman Catholic churches in Beijing]] and [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in China]] and [[:Category:Cathedrals in Beijing]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in Brasília]] to [[:Category:Roman Catholic churches in Brasília]] and [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in Brazil]] and [[:Category:Cathedrals in Brasília]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in London]] to [[:Category:Roman Catholic churches in London]] and [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in England]] and [[:Category:Cathedrals in London]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in Shanghai]] to [[:Category:Roman Catholic churches in Shanghai]] and [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in China]] and [[:Category:Cathedrals in Shanghai]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: merge/delete''' per [[WP:SMALLCAT]], the default is at most 1 Roman Catholic cathedral per city (although of course there are exceptions) and Eastern Catholic cathedrals are generally rare, so the number of Catholic cathedrals in one city will never be sizable. Note that the proposal for the "Catholic" categories is not a full upmerge to all parent categories, because the articles are often already in another subcategory of the potential merge targets (in particular in a Roman Catholic or in an Eastern Catholic subcategory). [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:13, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' For the sake of the very few cities (Jerusalem?) in the world that would merit such a category, there would be a plethora of low-count categories. Best to remove the temptation altogether. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 09:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - although it has drawn my attention to the [[Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Saint Vladimir the Great of Paris]]. This suggests 2 extra categories (in the style of Pastorwayne) for [[Borys Gudziak]]: '{{cl|Eparchs of the Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Saint Vladimir the Great of Paris}}', and '{{cl|Archeparchs of the Ukrainian Catholic Archeparchy of Philadelphia}}'. Archeparchy is a fine word, greatly underused. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 10:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' No conceptual objection to any of these but the low article count with little to no room for growth means these just hinder navigation. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''.  <s>The merges listed above  would remove the contents from the relevant "Category:Catholic cathedrals in FooCountry".  For example, the merge targets [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Beirut]] should include [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Lebanon]] ... and the merge targets for [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Paris]] should include [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in France]].</s>
:<s>I haven't checked the rest of the parent categories, but that oversight gives me no confidence that the effects have been properly considered.</s>
:I am also unpersuaded by the [[WP:SMALLCAT]] arguments.  The first three categories listed have, respectively 4, 2 and 4 articles ... which is a v difft pattern to the one article mentioned in the nomination. That's less than the usual rule of thumb as a minimum of five, but I apply a lower threshold where the upmerge requires multiple ,merge targets.  In this case, there will be at least three merge targets in every case, which creates category clutter on the articles and thereby makes navigation a lot harder. Per [[WP:CAT]], navigation is the main role of categories, so we should reject  proposals such as this which impedes navigation.--[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 08:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:* I tried to explain in the nomination (apparently not clearly enough) that the merge target [[:Category:Catholic cathedrals in Lebanon]] is redundant because the articles are already in [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in Lebanon]] or in [[:Category:Eastern Catholic cathedrals in Lebanon]]. Similar for other "Catholic" categories. For a substantial number of articles this nomination hence does not entail an increase in category links per article. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
::*{{ping|BrownHairedGirl}} I just checked and every member of "Catholic cathedrals in (city)" is already in the relevant "Roman Catholic cathedrals in (country)", "Eastern Catholic cathedrals in (country)", or a subcategory thereof. [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 16:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
:::*@[[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] & [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]]: thanks for the clarification.  I have struck that part of my oppose rationale, but I stoill oppose on the other grounds. -[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 16:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''' as nom, and many thanks for the clean-up work. By definition, a city would rarely have an extended number of Catholic cathedrals, and even though there may be a Latin and several Eastern Catholic cathedrals, there number would never be large. Place Clichy 16:20, 29 April 2020 
*'''Oppose''' many of these categories have 3 to 4 entries if not more. The nominator's rational is also faulty, there are sometimes there is more than just one cathedral in a city as multiple diocese and eparchies have [[Co-cathedral]]s which count as well. I would Merge Roman Catholic cathedrals to Catholic cathedrals though. [[User:Inter&#38;anthro|Inter&#38;anthro]] ([[User talk:Inter&#38;anthro|talk]]) 02:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
:* They contain 2 to 4 articles, the phrase "if not more" is not applicable. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 04:45, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Merge.'''  Is there any city with more than half a dozen cathedrals?  [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 22:15, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support <s>with the exception of Beijing and Shanghai</s>''', which are [[Direct-administered municipalities of China|effectively provinces]] of China, and fit into an established pattern under [[:Category:Roman Catholic cathedrals in China]]. The cathedral tree is far too complex at present. Because there are so few cathedrals in any city, categorizing by denomination &times; city is unnecessary. [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 03:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
::* {{ping|Wikiacc}} coincidentally the Catholic cathedrals by Chinese province have also been nominated, [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_April_26#Roman_Catholic_cathedrals_in_China_by_province|see here]]. So under these circumstances I guess Beijing and Shanghai need not be exempted. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:40, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
:::* Thanks for the pointer. I've struck the exceptions for Beijing and Shanghai. [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 13:54, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
** '''Exception <s>also</s> for Brasília''' for the same reason. [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 03:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Cathedrals in Hampshire ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 07:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Cathedrals in Hampshire}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''' per [[WP:SMALLCAT]], only three articles and generally there are too few cathedrals by county to start a tree for it. There is currently only one other such category, [[:Category:Cathedrals in Essex]], which is on yesterday's CfD page. The proposal is "delete" rather than "merge" because the articles are already in the appropriate Anglican and Roman Catholic subcategories of the potential merge targets. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:05, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 09:21, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 03:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - no scope for expansion.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:54, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Failed museum proposals in the United States ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 18:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose Upmerging''' [[:Category:Failed museum proposals in the United States]] to [[:Category:Proposed museums in the United States]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:SUBJECTIVECAT]]
:The [[:Category:Proposed museums]] tree contains a range of proposals: vague wishes, groups actively trying to raise money, those actively under construction, and groups that have given up. This category groups the last group. The challenge here is that it often subjective when it fails: rarely a formal announcement is made about giving up but it is far more common that groups just quietly become inactive. We do have [[:Category:Failed assassination attempts]] but the inclusion criteria are much clearer there.  - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 01:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''', there is too little distinction to keep the two categories apart. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:40, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''.  The members of the "failed" category really have failed.  The San Franciso one spent $14 million rehabbing a building, only to get booted.  These had boards, people involved, and were completely shut down.  These are really different, resolved cases;  it is encyclopedic/important to allow examination of these cases.  These might be regarded as really bad efforts (so avoid making the same mistakes) or maybe as successful failures that tried to go big, and failed big, and are constructively resolved rather than in purgatory (so emulate how they proceeded).  The nominator's own observations support Keeping this: they point out that it is challenging to classify the status of some.  These are the clear ones, and it is helpful to know which they are. --[[User:Doncram|Doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram|talk]]) 01:10, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 05:18, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
* Commenting on the oppose vote: the San Francisco case is really exceptional, it did not even fail as a proposal (so it does not really belong in the category) but failed in the execution of the proposal. So I am not convinced by the argument. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Coal gas-fired power stations in the United States ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''already deleted''' in the discussion [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_May_1#Category:Former_coal_gas-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States|here]]. For reference, both discussions were originally submitted on the same day and were eventually merged into one. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 18:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Coal gas-fired power stations in the United States}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Too few entries to be worth being a category [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 11:29, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
*<s>'''Combine'''</s> With the nomination above, whether I agree with the outcome or not. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 22:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
*<s>'''Keep'''. True, it is [[WP:SMALLCAT]], but for a clarity it would be better to keep. As an '''alternative''', merge to {{lc|Coal-fired power stations in the United States}}. [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 14:51, 19 April 2020 (UTC)</s>
:*'''Double upmerge''' per above as proposed by {{u|RevelationDirect}} at the [[:Category:Coal gas-fired power stations by country]] discussion. [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 12:43, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Arial Black, Gadget, sans-serif;">[[User:Dibbydib|dibbydib]] ([[User talk:Dibbydib|T]] ･ [[Special:Contributions/Dibbydib| C]])</span> 02:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
* '''Merge''', which is what nominator undoubtedly will have meant too, but actually only one merge target is required: [[:Category:Coal gas-fired power stations in the United States]] because the Fossil Fuel category is that parent's parent category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:12, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:* It appears that the beforementioned merge target is subject of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_April_18#Category:Former_coal_gas-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States|another CfD discussion]]. So if [[:Category:Coal gas-fired power stations in the United States]] is merged in that other discussion then [[:Category:Coal gas-fired power stations in the United States]], which this discussion is about, should be merged to the same target(s) as in that other discussion. I hope it is still clear what I mean. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::: No problem 
*'''Keep''' and expand.  A number more places within [[:Category:Energy infrastructure on the National Register of Historic Places]], for example, should be added to the category. Deletion is not the way forward to knowledge. --[[User:Doncram|Doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram|talk]]) 00:20, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
:: If you can name 3 articles that are coal gas-fired power stations, I'll gladly change my vote. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:43, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Double Upmerge''' to [[:Category:Coal gas-fired power stations]] and [[:Category:Coal-fired power stations in the United States]] because the low article count 1, with maybe 1 more coming from the subcategory. (My preference would be to tie this CFD with that for the subcategory [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_April_18#Category:Former_coal_gas-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States|located here]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 01:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== The entire "Empire Award winners" tree ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. The information is already in list form. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 04:08, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Actor Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best British Actor Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Male Newcomer Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Supporting Actor Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Actress Empire Award winners‎]]
{{collapse top|15 more subcategories}}
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best British Actress Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Female Newcomer Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Supporting Actress Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Comedy Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best British Director Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Director Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best British Film Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Film Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Empire Hero Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Horror Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Empire Icon Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Empire Inspiration Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Newcomer Empire Award winners]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy Empire Award winners‎]]
::* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Best Thriller Empire Award winners‎]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:NONDEFINING]] ([[WP:OCAWARD]])
:''[[Empire (film magazine)|Empire]]'' is a British film magazine founded in in 1989 that used to to have a readers' choice awards called the the [[Empire Awards]]. Despite being a British award, the winners skew toward Americans but has specific British sub-awards. The [[Tom Hanks]] and [[Uma Thurman]] articles both mention the BAFTA and Academy Awards right in the intro. In contrast, these awards tend to be mentioned in passing if at all in both the actor and film articles so it doesn't seem defining. The winners are already listified [[:Category:Empire Awards|here in individual list articles]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:<small>'''*RFC''' There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to [[WP:OCAWARD]]. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome [[Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#RfC on exceptions to WP:OCAWARD|here]]. -RD </small>
* '''Support''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:13, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''. Award categories for winners is something that is part of en.wikipedia. If an award is not notable, then it doesn't have an article. If you feel that these are not notable, then send them to AfD. Once an award is notable, yearly award pages and list of award winners pages can be made (if enough information is available). These pass that as well. As can be seen at [[WP:NOTDUPE]], a category and a list are not mutually exclusive, and both serve different needs. One can use category trees for category intersections and use it for their own research needs, while lists provide a more clear overview of the subject (when created properly). Other than [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]] I don't see any reason to specifically target these set of categories. --[[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 08:58, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:: The issue here is not the [[WP:NOTABILITY]] of the award list articles but whether the categories you created are [[WP:DEFINING]] to, say, [[Morgan Freeman]] or [[The Hunger Games: Catching Fire]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 11:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::* Besides, not every article must have its own eponymous category. If that would be the case, every article would soon contain dozens or hundreds of category links. In fact even in the current situation there are a large number of biography articles in which the number of listed categories is quite extreme, to the extent that the category clutter is hardly useful for an average reader. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:::*{{yo|Gonnym|p=}}'s appeal to [[WP:NOTDUPE]] inverts the actual guideline.
::::NOTDUPE says that the existence of a list is not a valid reason to delete a category, or vice versa.
::::However NOTDUPE is also very clear that the existence of a list is not a valid reason to create a category, or vice versa. See para&nbsp;3 of the lead of NOTDUPE:
:::::{{talkquote| there may be circumstances where consensus determines that one or more methods of presenting information is inappropriate for Wikipedia. For instance, the guideline on overcategorization sets out a number of situations in which consensus has consistently determined that categories should not be used. A regularly occurring outcome at WP:CFD for some deleted categories is to listify, because there are cases where lists are appropriate while categories may not be}}.
::::It's a pity to see that old chestnut hauled out yet again {{smiley|sad}} ... especially when this inversion of the guideline cited is accompanied by an attempt to dismiss the actual policy-based rationale as ILIKEIT. {{smiley|sad}}  I assume that Gonnym's error was make in good faith, and therefore hope that as a courtesy to other editors Gonnym will demonstrate their good faith by striking the errors in their !vote. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:54, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete all''' per [[WP:NONDEF]] and [[WP:OCAWARD]]. -[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 08:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete all''' -- Yet more NN OCAWARD category clutter.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:56, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Symposium Book Award winners ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: black;">bibliomaniac</span>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: red;">1</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<span style="color: blue;">5</span>]]''''' 07:20, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Symposium Book Award winners]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:NONDEFINING]] ([[WP:OCAWARD]])
:The ''[[Symposium: Canadian Journal of Continental Philosophy]]'' is a Canadian journal published twice a year that covers [[continental philosophy]]. They issue this award to a book in that specialty and this category contains the authors of those works. 4 of the 5 articles don't mention the award at all while 1 mentions it in the lede so it doesn't typically seem defining. All of these biography articles are already well categorized under the [[:Category:Philosophers]] tree and I listified the contents [[Symposium: Canadian Journal of Continental Philosophy#Symposium Book Award|right here]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:<small>'''*RFC''' There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to [[WP:OCAWARD]]. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome [[Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#RfC on exceptions to WP:OCAWARD|here]]. -RD </small>
* '''Support''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:14, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' List exists for this OCAWARD.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:58, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>