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= November 19 =

== Does the edit notice on pages about given names apply to fictional characters? ==

On given name pages such as [[Avery (given name)]], there's an edit notice saying not to add unlinked or redlinked entries to the lists. Does this apply to the fictional characters list or only the lists of people? [[User:JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333|JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333]] ([[User talk:JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333|correct me if I'm wrong]]) 00:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:Given that the [[:WP:EDITNOTICE]] you're referring to is [[:Template:Editnotices/Page/Avery (given name)]], and it is at the very top of the editing window, I'm assuming the intent was to have it apply to all content on the page. The notice was created and added to the page in 2013 by an administrator named {{u|Alexf}}. It was subsequently updated in 2019 by the Alexf. It looks like the "Fictional characters" section was added after 2019, but prior to that page just contained links to articles about real people. Perhaps Alexf can clarify how the notice applies now. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks so much! [[User:JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333|JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333]] ([[User talk:JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333|correct me if I'm wrong]]) 01:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:::As I mentioned to John earlier in my page, I don't bother much with fictional character names. -- [[User:Alexf|Alexf]]<sup><i>[[User talk:Alexf|(talk)]]</i></sup> 22:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== Change of Place Name ==

How do I alter the spelling in a title page specifically Haggits Pillar to Haggitt Pillar?

Haggit Pillar has been corrected to Haggitt Pillar by the New Zealand Geographic Board on the recommendation from the Antarctic Place Names Committee and published in the NZ Gazette (1). The United States Board on Geographical Names has updated its records accordingly (2).

(1) https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2024-ln5732
(2) https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz-antarctica/public/search/names/2818689 [[User:JSH1970|JSH1970]] ([[User talk:JSH1970|talk]]) 01:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:The act of changing an article name is described as a Move in Wikipedia. I have done it. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 02:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== History of miss vicki chips shrinkage of bag size  ==

History of miss vicki chips shrinkage of bag size [[Special:Contributions/66.183.19.154|66.183.19.154]] ([[User talk:66.183.19.154|talk]]) 02:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:There is an article on [[Miss Vickie's]], but nothing on the bag size. These kinds of questions are better asked at the [[WP:Reference desk|Reference desk]], this page is for questions about using or editing Wikipedia. [[User:Sungodtemple|Sungodtemple]] ([[User talk:Sungodtemple|talk]] &#8226; [[Special:Contributions/Sungodtemple|contribs]]) 03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:If you do ask a question there (or indeed here), do please make an effort to address ''humans''. Thus "What is ...?", "How much is ...?", "Who did ...?", etc. Even better, sound a bit sociable/thoughtful/effortful; thus "Does anyone here know what is ...?", "Which article should I look at in order to find how much is ...?", "Is there yet any consensus among historians on who did ...?" Thank you! -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 05:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== Misuse of "literal" ==

Has anyone worked much on pages dealing with words? I left this comment on a talk page a month ago and haven't had any replies. I would proceed with an edit, but I don't know if the error relates more to the individual page or if it's a common error elsewhere on Wiki so the use of "literal" in glosses would need more specification, wherever that takes place. I.e. should I proceed with the edit on the individual page or is there somewhere else I should take the discussion first?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yeshua#The_note_%22literal_translation%22_is_imprecise

(NB looks like there's a coding error live on the page, so you might not be able to see what I'm talking about in the link just yet) [[User:Cameron.coombe|Cameron.coombe]] ([[User talk:Cameron.coombe|talk]]) 03:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:It's a common error in translation templates that goes back decades. Sometimes it is useful to provide a literal translation; sometimes it's useful to have an idiomatic gloss. For the latter, I'll remove any template that produces the string "literal" or any abbreviated equivalent and just put the gloss in brackets. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]]! I'll proceed confidently. I'm glad I'm not the only one to be irked by this! [[User:Cameron.coombe|Cameron.coombe]] ([[User talk:Cameron.coombe|talk]]) 00:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Nvm lol, someone got there before me. Good! [[User:Cameron.coombe|Cameron.coombe]] ([[User talk:Cameron.coombe|talk]]) 00:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

== How to delete profile page ==

How can I delete my page here? I just signed up but it's confusing to use. I want to delete my page. Please advise [[User:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|Canada Mortgage and Financial Group]] ([[User talk:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|talk]]) 10:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:You do not have a page; your user page ([[User:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group]]) has not been created. Before you go any further on Wikipedia please consult the [[Wikipedia:Username Policy|username policy]] as yours suggests it is a promotional name representing a company. Consider a [[Wikipedia:Changing username|change of username]]. Thanks, [[User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|Pickersgill-Cunliffe]] ([[User talk:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|talk]]) 10:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ok. I had no idea I couldn't use a company name.  Thanks for the information.  If I don't have a page how come I am logged in here and messaging you? I'm new to this lol sorry..it's confusing.  I will change the name. [[User:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|Canada Mortgage and Financial Group]] ([[User talk:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|talk]]) 10:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:::You are logged into an account. Anyone can have an account; it essentially provides you with no extra benefits but means if you were to edit any Wikipedia article you would do so under your username rather than your IP. Accounts begin with the prefix "User:" while articles, or pages, are not prefixed. [[User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|Pickersgill-Cunliffe]] ([[User talk:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|talk]]) 11:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Got you, thank you so much for the explanation. [[User:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|Canada Mortgage and Financial Group]] ([[User talk:Canada Mortgage and Financial Group|talk]]) 11:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== The friend not walk place friend yazini love ==

Sorry friend not friend yazini and love thank ..... [[Special:Contributions/41.114.209.104|41.114.209.104]] ([[User talk:41.114.209.104|talk]]) 11:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, did you have a question about Wikipedia? <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 12:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== Policy on shifting IPs? ==

I have reason to believe that an editor is regularly shifting IPs to avoid accumulating a history of warnings and sanctions for their conduct in talk page discussions and edits to a cluster of articles surrounding a contentious topic. Does this violate any rules? It’s been going on for at least a few years: same positions, same tone, and same geolocation. They are extremely uncivil and disruptive in talk page discussions—but if that’s the extent of it, I’d rather just walk away.

Can you point me to any relevant policies or other useful resources?

Posting as an IP myself just to avoid unnecessary escalation from my edit history. 

Thanks in advance, [[Special:Contributions/75.73.117.213|75.73.117.213]] ([[User talk:75.73.117.213|talk]]) 18:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:Hi IP editor, that would come under [[Wikipedia:LOUTSOCK|Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry]]. <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 18:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:IPs are often dynamic, especially under IPv6 (your post is signed under an IPv4 address). Regardless, if they appear to be from the same geolocation, you can check the first digits of the IP and, assuming some of them are the same, a rangeblock can be employed if disruption seems to continue. However, if they're coming from clearly different IP addresses (typically as a proxy) and you're certain they're the same person, you can issue a level four immediate vandalism warning <nowiki>({{subst:uwv4im}})</nowiki> and if disruption continues from obviously the same person you can open an SPI to get an administrator's eye on this case. [[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ([[User talk:Departure–|talk]]) 18:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== How to add a company logo?  ==

I am writing an article about a business. I own the copyright of all logos. I'd love to feature the logo on the page but Wikipedia is not letting me load it. Could anyone advise on how to do that? I see many pages that have logos. Thank you! [[User:ClientCircle|ClientCircle]] ([[User talk:ClientCircle|talk]]) 18:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:First, please be sure to comply with [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]] procedures before creating an article about anything you may want an article on. '''Most companies are not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, and writing one about a company you're involved with can be considered promotional and thus should be avoided.''' To upload a file, you should avoid going to Commons; as you own the copyright, your logo will be released into a free Creative Commons license - you should almost always avoid that if you have any stake in the company's success. Instead, it should be uploaded as a non-free file on the page. See [[WP:NFC]] for more information about doing so. Really, it shouldn't be uploaded at all - if your company is notable enough for Wikipedia, it will be created by another volunteer editor. Otherwise, it doesn't need one, just like the 95% of other companies worldwide with no article. [[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ([[User talk:Departure–|talk]]) 18:51, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, @[[User:ClientCircle|ClientCircle]], and welcome to Wikipedia. 
:I will echo what Departure says, but give some more detail. 
:First, I'm guessing that the business is ClientCircle? If so, please note that:
:* User names must not give the impression that they belong to an organisation, as opposed to an individual, and nor may they give the impression that they are editing on behalf of an organisation. You need to change your username (or, more simply, abandon that one and create a new one). "John at ClientCircle" would be acceptable, or your real name, or any pseudonym that is not the name of the business. See [[WP:Username policy]].
:* If you own the copyright on the logo, you almost certainly count as a  [[WP:paid editor|paid editor]], and you '''must''' make a formal declaration of this status, usually on your user page. (See the link for details)
:* Creating a new article is probably the hardest task there is for an inexperienced editor. {{User:ColinFine/PracticeFirst}}
:* Creating a new article when you have a [[WP:conflict of interest|conflict of interest]] is even harder, because it is difficult to keep hold of the fact that {{HD/WINI}} Once you have found suitable [[WP:42|independent, reliable sources]], you will need to forget everything you know about the business, and write a summary of only what those sources say. 
:* An inexperienced editor is strongly advised, and an editor with a COI is required, to use the [[WP:articles for creation|articles for creation]] process, to create a draft, and then submit it for review. The presence or absence of a logo will not affect this process. 
:* If you are the copyright holder of the logo, then you have the power to license it in a way that Wikimedia Commons will accept: but you should think hard about whether you want to do so. What you will be doing is irrevocably giving anybody in the world the legal right to use or alter your logo in any way they choose, as long as they attribute its source. Is that what you want to do? 
:* Logos are usually added to Wikipedia articles using the much more restrictive [[WP:non-free content criteria|non-free content criteria]]: this is a variation of "fair use", so it does not require you to give up any rights to the image. The criteria include one that the image may only be used in a published article, not in a draft; so if you are using the draft mechanism, you shouldn't attempt to upload the image until the draft has been accepted as an article. 
:I echo @[[User:Departure–|Departure–]]'s advice that most companies in the world do not meet Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:NORG|notability]]: unless you are confident that yours does, all time and effort you put into trying to create a Wikipedia article about it will be time and effort wasted. 
:Finally: the fact that you have posted this here will likely make you a target for scammers, who will contact you, falsely claiming that they can create an article for you. Please see [[WP:SCAM]], and don't pay anybody any money for creating Wikipedia content. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 21:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|ClientCircle}} You personally own the copyright to the logo, not the company? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 22:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== I would like to donate by cheque from Canada ? ==

How do I do this. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FEA8:A501:1A00:5110:620C:BF96:4605|2607:FEA8:A501:1A00:5110:620C:BF96:4605]] ([[User talk:2607:FEA8:A501:1A00:5110:620C:BF96:4605|talk]]) 19:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:If you're looking to donate to the Wikimedia Foundation (which run Wikipedia) then information on how to donate via cheque can be found [https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Postal_donation here] [[User:CoconutOctopus|<span style="color: purple">CoconutOctopus</span>]] [[User talk:CoconutOctopus|<span style="color: pink">talk</span>]] 19:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== Delete Wikipedia Page ==

Hi! I have been trying to help John Mark McWatters delete his Wikipedia page that was created about him. I've proposed deletion a number of times, but it did not work. He is no longer in the same field, and wants this information about him taken down. Would love some help with this. Thanks so much! [[User:Xoxotennisgirl|Xoxotennisgirl]] ([[User talk:Xoxotennisgirl|talk]]) 20:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

:Courtesy link [[J. Mark McWatters]] [[User:Knitsey|<span style="color:DarkMagenta">Knitsey</span>]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|<span style="color: maroon">talk</span>]]) 20:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::{{#Ifeq:{{{1}}}|i|:|}}There are four chief processes under which articles in the [[WP:MAINSPACE|mainspace]] are deleted: 
* '''1.''' [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] 
* '''2.''' [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] (prod) 
* '''3.''' [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion of biographies of living people|Proposed deletion of articles on living persons]] (sticky prod); and 
* '''4.''' [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|Articles for deletion]] (AfD). 

To learn about typical reasons articles are deleted, see [[Wikipedia:Why was the page I created deleted?]] To find out why the ''particular'' article you posted was deleted, go to the [[Special:Log/delete|deletion log]] and type into the search field marked "Title" the ''exact'' name of the article, mindful of the original capitalization, spelling and spacing. The deletion log entry will show when the article was deleted, by which [[WP:Administrators|administrator]], and typically contain a deletion summary listing the reason for deletion. If you wish to contest this deletion, please contact the administrator first on their [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk page]] and, depending on the circumstances, politely explain why you think the article should be restored, or why a copy should be provided to you so you can address the reason for deletion before reposting the article. If after that the article remains deleted and you still wish to contest it, you have the option of listing the article at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review]], but articles are normally only restored if the deletion was ''clearly improper''.<!-- Template:Article deleted -->

:<span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 20:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|2601AC47}}, they want the article deleted, they're not contesting deletion. [[User:Knitsey|<span style="color:DarkMagenta">Knitsey</span>]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|<span style="color: maroon">talk</span>]]) 20:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I might add that McWatters is [[WP:N|notable]] as [[WP:NPOL|a public official]] IMO. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 20:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|Xoxotennisgirl}} The subject's wishes are of little relevance, when the subject is clearly a public figure. Are you asking The Washington Post, for example, to remove what they have written about McWatters? What response do you think you would get of you did so? You may find [[WP:FAQAS|our FAQ for article subjects]] useful. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 20:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:Hello! As suggested above, I'm afraid you will not be able to delete the article. The main determiner for if a subject should have an article is the notability policy (in this case, [[WP:NPOL|the one for politicians and judges]]). If it is met, it is very unlikely that the article will be deleted. Most deletion discussions revolve around if the notability policy is being met, and your deletion proposals were declined for this reason [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=J._Mark_McWatters&diff=prev&oldid=1250456240 here].{{pb}}I understand that he wants it deleted because it's not relevant to what he does today, but that alone is not a deletion reason. Wikipedia articles aim to cover as much [[WP:V|verifiable]] information about the subject as reasonable, and this includes past work.{{pb}}If there are [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] on what he currently does, it could be added to the article. But again, that is not a reason to remove the current content. [[User:Nyakase|Nyakase]] ([[User talk:Nyakase|talk]] <span aria-hidden="true">🐈‍⬛‍ she/her</span>) 20:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::Makes sense! Thank you everyone!! [[User:Xoxotennisgirl|Xoxotennisgirl]] ([[User talk:Xoxotennisgirl|talk]]) 20:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

= November 20 =

== Why is a particular article protected? ==

My question refers to the article entitled “Doner kebab.” 

I went to read it after ordering Middle Eastern takeout food today and finding  ''doner'' on the menu but little explanation of what it was. As I read the article, I noticed a minor grammatical error and so I decided to correct it because I was already signed in to Wikipedia.

To my surprise, I was notified that I wasn’t allowed to make edits in the article because it was protected. A ''food'' article? Even if of Turkish derivation?

I’d really appreciate understanding this.<div></div>[[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 09:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:Hello. Looking at the article's protection log, that article has an extensive history of disruptive editing, necessitating it be protected to prevent that disruption. From what I can tell most of that disruption is related to how to identify the nation the dish is associated with, there was much edit warring over it.  It may sound silly, but such disputes happen.  There was even a dispute about whether a single letter should be capitalized- which was so significant it merits an article- [[Wikipedia Star Trek Into Darkness debate]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Augnablik}}, the truth of the matter is that there have been many deeply entrenched ethnonationalist disputes about the histories and origins of countless culinary dishes that can be broadly described as [[Middle Eastern cuisine]]. The hostility and bitterness is related to the conflicts between Israel, Palestine and other Arab countries, extending outward to include Turkey, Greece and Iran. When these arguments get out of control, as they all too often do, then administrators must apply protection to the affected pages. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::Good grief! [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 12:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::We never know where our day will lead, do we? An innocent lunch and thought to do a minor grammar fix morphs into a most unexpected Wikipedia discovery. Wow, the drama!  [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 12:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:331dot|331dot]]
::There was an exchange of such magnitude over capitalization of ''into'' used as a preposition? How could there have been any question in the first place, as it’s standard editing practice to lower-case in such situations?  [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 13:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:::It was a little more complicated as a title of a film.....beyond that I'll defer to the article about the controversy. :) [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 13:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes … I should have picked up on that point. The problem could have been started off in Hollywood, not Wikipedia … but in that case, the Wiki issue probably was whether to correct an incorrectly-worded title! [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 13:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
{{re|Augnablik}} you say there is a minor gramattical error in the article. Go to [[talk:Doner kebab]] and use {{tl|Edit semi-protected}} to request your desired change. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 10:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:Could you be a little more specific about this, @[[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]]<nowiki> — I go to that page and exactly where do I find, or type, {{</nowiki>[[Template:Edit semi-protected|Edit semi-protected]]<nowiki>}}? </nowiki> [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 12:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] Easiest if you copy from here to your clipboard the template: everything from the first { to the final } and then navigate to that talk page and click the "Add topic" tab. Give it a simple title, then in its main section, paste the template. It expects your change to be expressed as "change X to Y". The purpose of the template is to populate a category that other editors monitor for such simple change requests. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:That's odd, though; Augnablik's account has been around for over 2 years and she's made more than <s>10</s> <u>300</u> edits, which should have given her extended confirmed rights. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 14:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::They are extended confirmed as of 18 May 2024. Likely this has to do with the protection notice in the source editor - this appears even when one has the user rights to edit the page. There are no [[WP:CT/A-I]] sanctions in place, though.[[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ([[User talk:Departure–|talk]]) 14:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm replying here to both [[User:Tenryuu|Tenryuu 🐲]] and [[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ... partly because what I'll say is related to the last message each of you sent and partly because something weird is going on technologically so my replies to messages no longer immediately follow the one to which I'm replying.
:::I need to post a short sequel to my "Doner kebab" article dilemma. I went back to the article to try what [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]]  and [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] suggested I do in order to edit. Of course I again saw the protection notice for the article. But this time I saw something that had escaped my notice the first time: that autoconfirmed and extended confirmed editors ''were'' allowed  to edit. Earlier, I'd been so stunned to see the protection notice saying something that at first glance seemed to say I couldn't edit that I hadn't read the notice further. 
:::This meant I could just go ahead and make the edit as usual. A happy ending, but I can't help wondering how many other editors have been fooled by a protection notice when they, like me, came to one for the first time. Why wouldn't this notice appear only to editors who don't yet have at least autoconfirmed status (which is what we get after just 10 edits)? [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 17:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::I'd guess the notices appear for everyone to remind people to stay within policy. Pages are usually protected for a reason, so it won't hurt anyone to tell people why. Although, perhaps instead of a red box the same as a warning it'd be better off as a yellow informative box for users who can edit the page. [[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ([[User talk:Departure–|talk]]) 17:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes, a yellow caution light instead of a red stop light! 😂 [[User:Augnablik|Augnablik]] ([[User talk:Augnablik|talk]]) 17:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::All's well that ends well. Glad you got this sorted in the end. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 18:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Template for a pile of references ==

While editing, I came across the episode section of [[Karen_(1964_TV_series)#Episodes]]. It has a pile of references dumped at the top of the section, I'm guessing they're there because they relate to the episodes and need moving to specific episodes. I've tried looking for a maintenance template that does the job of "This pile of references need moving to the appropriate piece of text" but can't find anything suitable. What would be the appropriate template for this occurrence? - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 09:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:X201|X201]] is {{tl|no footnotes}} what you're looking for? <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>'''[[</nowiki>[[User:CanonNi]]<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> ([[User talk:CanonNi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CanonNi|contribs]])</span> 10:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::Not really. The rest of the article has footnotes and references that are properly done. The problem is this pile of inline references that are at the top of the Episodes section. Some of them are obviously about single episodes and so need to be moved to the correct positions, whereas it's unclear what some of the other references in that pile are actually referencing. I'm sure that there's some kind of cleanup template to cover this, but can't find the correct one. - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 08:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::{{tl|Text-source}}? [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 12:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

==Restore or Draftify a deleted page==
I am seeking assistance to restore a page that was deleted via AfD back in 2016 per the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kingsley's Chicken]]. I have attempted to contact the admin who closed the AfD ({{u|MBisanz}}) directly but received no response. I note the AfD occurred after a [[WP:REFUND]] which I understand to be a once only option. 

A concern raised in the AfD was that it did not meet [[WP:CORPDEPTH]] and at the time, it was hard to locate published versions of existing RS. Since 2016, there has been renewed interest in this chain, including a YouTube documentary highlighting its links to a number of Australian Hip Hop artists as well as featuring in a movie. Additionally, news archives like Trove now make it easier to locate historical media coverage and I believe the article now meet notability criteria and I would like to access the previous version and work on it as a draft to update it. Who do I talk to to have it restored to the draft space please? [[User:Dfadden|Dfadden]] ([[User talk:Dfadden|talk]]) 09:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:MBisanz is no longer active on Wikipedia, and is no longer an admin.  Per [[WP:DRVPURPOSE]] Deletion review should not be used: #9, just post your request at [[Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion]]. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 09:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

::[[User:Dfadden|Dfadden]], you're probably better staring from scratch. The  last version created said only ''Kingsley's Chicken is a Canberra based fast food chain offering chicken based burgers, wraps, torps, chips & gray, BBQ chickens and salads'' and the version prior to that had much the same plus a description of a "A controversial advertising campaign in 2000". Neither gave any evidence of notability nor real facts such as financials, number of employees etc. [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 07:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Edit, revert, ghost—How to proceed? ==
I'm in a somewhat frustrating situation.  On 3 November, {{User|Szelma W}} reverted ([[Special:Diff/1255250737]]) an edit of mine ([[Special:Diff/1255197206]]).  On 5 November, I created [[Talk:List of Mersenne primes and perfect numbers#Recent reversion - is anything salvageable?]] to discuss the matter, as the revert's edit summary "It was better" didn't really give me a lot to go on.

And there, the discussion has stalled, as {{ping|Szelma W|p=}} hasn't been on WP since 4 November.  It appears they tend to contribute in small bursts about once a week (although I haven't noticed an obvious day-of-the-week pattern) and it's been two weeks with no edit activity.  It's not like they're specifically ignoring ''me'', they just haven't been around in a while.  So there's no bad faith, but it's still frustrating for me as the memory of the various number theory pages I was working on at the time fades.

Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to proceed?  My only real complaint is the lack of specificity in the original revert (I try to be a lot more encouraging when reverting a good-faith edit), but that wouldn't be a problem ''if'' there were subsequent discussion. [[Special:Contributions/97.102.205.224|97.102.205.224]] ([[User talk:97.102.205.224|talk]]) 15:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:My recommendation would be to ask for additional opinions at one or more of the Project pages listed at the top of the Talk page. Please phrase the request as neutrally as possible (e.g. "Additional options at X would be greatly appreciated."). That way you can form a [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]], and if Szelma is unable or unwilling to chime in, you will at least have the opinions of multiple other editors to work with. Hope this is helpful! [[User:Doniago|DonIago]] ([[User talk:Doniago|talk]]) 16:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:97, I don't think that was an appropriate edit summary for a revert of such magnitude. I see there have been edits at the article since then, which I'm unqualified to assess. There has also been no pointer to the discussion dropped at any of [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numbers]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics]], [[Talk:Mersenne prime]], nor [[Talk:Perfect number]].{{pb}}As general advice, it might be an idea to try to make more, smaller edits if you're able: this will make it easier for reviewing editors to figure out what all you're tryna do. In this case maybe one edit to format the tables, one edit to alter the template transclusions, one to copyedit the prose, and one to reogranise the paragraph structure.{{pb}} This piecemeal approach can also be used as a gradual method for manual reversion of a revert: changes can be incrementally reinstated, taking care to heed any advice for suggested alterations or guidance compliance left by the reverting editor (here none). As above, this will allow reviewing editors to assess each bit of the full contribution on individual merits, and avoids edit warring. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 12:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Searching through redirects ==

The page [[Sigma Phi Beta]] contains
<nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Sigma Sigma Omicron]]
{{R with possibilities}}
</nowiki>

Can someone please explain to me why a search for insource:/Sigma Sigma Omicron/ does not find it? 

(My ultimate goal here is to find all Redirects with Possibilities that are Greek Letter Organizations, yes, I know there will be false positives. Still seems better than walking my way through all 24 of he links like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Redirects_with_possibilities?from=Delta [[User:Naraht|Naraht]] ([[User talk:Naraht|talk]]) 16:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:I think this is an instance of [[phab:T204089]]. That has a comment:
:<blockquote>As [[phab:p/stjn/|@stjn]] [[phab:T204089#10310244|noticed]] the behaviour is even inconsistent. An <code>insource</code> search should find a redirect if this contains the search string, but it does not.  
:An example: There is a redirect [https://de.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Scil&redirect=no Scil] in dewiki. None of these searches does find it:
:* search for <code>: insource:scil</code> – https://de.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Suche&search=%3A+insource%3Ascil
:* search for <code>: insource:"Liste lateinischer Abkürzungen#scil"</code> – https://de.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Suche&search=%3A+insource%3A%22Liste+lateinischer+Abk%C3%BCrzungen%23scil%22
:</blockquote> [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
::{{U|ColinFine}} Anytime a question gets a link to an existing phab entry, it means I may have been doing it as well as I can. I'll follow the renewed activity on phab.[[User:Naraht|Naraht]] ([[User talk:Naraht|talk]]) 14:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

= November 21 =

== Need some help with pywikibot ==

I'm trying to set up a pywikibot script that fixes problematic date formats; specifically, it will turn 2024-11 into Nov 2024, and so on. I got some python code working in IDLE, and managed to transfer it to pywikibot. When I try to get it to run on test.wikipedia, however, it says {{code|Page [[Test]] saved}} but doesn't actually seem to be saving it. 

{{collapse top|title=Here's my code:}}

<syntaxhighlight lang=python>
import pywikibot
import re


def replace(s):
    str(s)
    datelist = re.findall("\\d\\d\\d\\d-\\d\\d", s)
    print(datelist)
    date = datelist[0]
    month = date[5:]
    year = date[:4]
    monthn = 'Something is wrong.'
    if month == '01':
        monthn = 'Jan '

    if month == '02':
        monthn = 'Feb '

    if month == '03':
        monthn = 'Mar '

    if month == '04':
        monthn = 'Apr '

    if month == '05':
        monthn = 'May '

    if month == '06':
        monthn = 'Jun '

    if month == '07':
        monthn = 'Jul '

    if month == '08':
        monthn = 'Aug '

    if month == '09':
        monthn = 'Sep '

    if month == '10':
        monthn = 'Oct '

    if month == '11':
        monthn = 'Nov '

    if month == '12':
        monthn = 'Dec '


    dateresult = monthn + year
    str(dateresult)
    print(dateresult)
    st = s.find(date)
    print(st)
    en = st + 7
    startstuff = s[:st]
    endstuff = s[en:]
    finalresult = startstuff + dateresult + endstuff
    print(finalresult)

mylang = 'test'
family = 'wikipedia'
site = pywikibot.Site()
page = pywikibot.Page(site, "Test")
text = page.text
replace(text)
page.save("Test date fix")
</syntaxhighlight>
{{collapse bottom}}

You should be able to view and run the code [https://hub-paws.wmcloud.org/user/Cremastra/lab/tree/pywikibot%20date%20replacement.ipynb here]. 

Thanks for any assistance you can offer,
[[User talk:Cremastra|''Cremastra'']] ‹ [[User:Cremastra|u]] — [[Special:Contribs/Cremastra|c]] › 00:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:That seems rather specialized for a general help desk. See [[:mw:Manual:Pywikibot#Get help]] for other options. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::OK, thanks, I'll see if anyone is on IRC. [[User talk:Cremastra|''Cremastra'']] ‹ [[User:Cremastra|u]] — [[Special:Contribs/Cremastra|c]] › 01:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::[[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)]] or [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing]] may be helpful if there isn't and you still need something. [[User:Tolozen|Tolozen]] ([[User talk:Tolozen|talk]]) 07:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:You need to update <code>page.text</code>. As it is, you're printing the new revision to the terminal, but you're not actually sending it to the server. [[User:Jlwoodwa|jlwoodwa]] ([[User talk:Jlwoodwa|talk]]) 03:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jlwoodwa|Jlwoodwa]] d'oh. :) [[User talk:Cremastra|''Cremastra'']] ‹ [[User:Cremastra|u]] — [[Special:Contribs/Cremastra|c]] › 22:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Wikipedia Commons Copyright explanation help ==

Hello everyone, 
I am looking to upload images that are not mine and need help with copyright. Terms of conditions from the owner say: "Copyright © 2008-2024 Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Croatia. All rights reserved. Content from this site may be transmitted without special permission provided the source is acknowledged." Now im interested if I am free to upload and if I am, under which license?

Thanks to whoever helps. [[User:Persian Meowth|Persian Meowth]] ([[User talk:Persian Meowth|talk]]) 07:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:The best place to ask this is the [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Help_desk Commons Help Desk]. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 08:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::The short and sweet answer, {{u|Persian Meowth}}, is that no image that is labeled {{tpq|Copyright © (any recent date)}} or {{tpq|All rights reserved}} will be accepted on Wikimedia Commons, because they simply do not host copyright protected content. As for uploading the image to the English Wikipedia instead, the image would need to fully comply with the very stringent standards described at [[WP:NFCI|Non free content -images]]. For legal compliance reasons, these standards are taken very seriously. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Thats very unfortunate for me lol. But to complicate things a bit I received this from the autor: author (Government ministry of the Armed Forces) stated "Content from this site may be transmitted without special permission provided the source is acknowledged". Furthermore, he stated that "said statement should be the basis of free use for whatever purpose, commercial or otherwise as it implies that the content is uploaded for everyone to use as long as it meets the criteria of naming the source".
:::Now honestly, I have no idea why they didn't upload an image under Creative Commons in the first place if they are waiving all rights (except for naming the autor) in this clause, but i didn't bother to ask that question unfortunately [[User:Persian Meowth|Persian Meowth]] ([[User talk:Persian Meowth|talk]]) 09:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Persian Meowth}}, when a photo is labeled {{tpq|Copyright © 2008-2024 Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Croatia. '''All rights reserved'''}}, that is powerful legal language that absolutely prevents the image from being uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. Any casual language that follows is of no significance. The people who run that website can remove that formal legal copyright language and substitute an acceptable Creative Commons license instead. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== "Inscriptions and Herostones" articles ==

I've noticed a pattern of articles with titles ending in "Inscriptions and Herostones" or "Inscriptions & Herostones". I've copyedited and fixed bare URLs on a couple, but now that I've discovered just how many there are I'm not sure how to proceed. They all follow a similar format and I believe were created by the same user. They need copyediting, often rely on one source, and many have the same GitHub link in them which may be due to some kind of [[WP:COI]]. How should I proceed? The articles should at least all follow the same naming convention, not having "and" and "&" interspersed at random, and they usually have the region they're in in parentheses halfway through the article title. I didn't know where to ask because there's not one single talk page for such a group. Here's an example: [[Gulakamale (Bengaluru) Inscriptions and Herostones]]. Thanks. [[User:Tolozen|Tolozen]] ([[User talk:Tolozen|talk]]) 07:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:[[User:Tolozen|Tolozen]], if you are concerned about COI you could ask the main editor and go to [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard]] if you don't get a satisfactory answer. If you want to encourage other editors to improve the articles, you could start a discussion on a single page, possibly [[Talk:Kannada inscriptions]], and post links at [[Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics]] and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Archaeology]]. Other editors may or may not be interested in the work. Most of the articles are at "Inscriptions and Herostones", I think this should be "inscriptions and hero stones" in sentence case, per [[Hero stone]]. [[User:TSventon|TSventon]] ([[User talk:TSventon|talk]]) 09:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Source hosted on a fanpage ==

I've been editing the article on [[Selected Ambient Works Volume II]] in preparation for a GA assessment. I wanted to add information about the recording history, and found a [https://lannerchronicle.wordpress.com/2023/08/18/aphex-twin-movement-zine-1994/ fairly useful interview about the album]. While the source is hosted on a dedicated fanpage to the artist, the source itself is an independent magazine, with a scan uploaded to this site. I couldn't find any other links to the desired source apart from this archive. Would this be okay to cite? Or is this totally unacceptable? [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 11:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:If the magazine is a [[WP:RS|reliable source]], you should just cite the magazine and not worry about where you found it. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:For GA, the source is probably adequate. It will depend on whether the reviewer will accept {{cite interview |work=Movement zine|date=1994| issue=1|interviewer=((freelance attitude boy Jeremy))|subject=Richard James|subject-link=Richard D. James (musician)|pages=11–12|via=Lanner Chronicle blog|title=Selected Ambient Words Vol. 1| url=https://lannerchronicle.wordpress.com/2023/08/18/aphex-twin-movement-zine-1994/}}{{pb}}Oh my gosh the typesetting!{{pb}}It's clearly not what would pass muster for a highest quality reliable source (reputation for fact-checking etc) and shouldn't be used to support contentious or extraordinary claims, but we have little reason to believe the contents are fraudulent. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 11:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:In an era of deep fakes, hoax sites and Photoshop, I believe that no supposed scan of an alleged article should ever be used for sourcing. If it's not verifiable, don't use it; if it's been verified, then reference the actual original publication, not somebody's purported scan of a publication. --[[User:Orangemike|<span style="color:#F80">Orange Mike</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:Orangemike|<span style="color:#FA0">Talk</span>]] 13:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::I know it's absolutely not ideal and I intend to do a better search on sites like archive.org once I get onto a network that doesn't block access; was also just interested to know in the case of there being no other free source available [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 13:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Sources don't need to be free, [[WP:OFFLINE|or even have a url]]. {{Noping|Orangemike}}'s perspective is certainly valid. I would not personally suspect as a deepfake or a Photoshop anything with as many spelling, punctuation, and typographic errors as freelance attitude boy Jeremy's interview. And I can't tell if the top right of the second page is cut off from the scanning, or by the unfathomable design decision to format the text into a trapezoid, '''then''' justify the paragraphs by some method that included whitespace between punctuation (which also created lines consisting entirely of punctuation).{{pb}}If this is a deepfake, it's certainly consistent with the vibe of the launch issue of a free mid-90s zine with no lasting presence on the internet, overenthusiastically formatted by a teenager using a word processing program for the first time.{{pb}}Although, now that I type that up, it's also entirely possible that the whole interview was fabricated for cred. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 14:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Tsui Ming-sum ==

I came across the [[Tsui Ming-sum]] article while participating in the [[WP:NOV24]] unreferenced articles drive. @[[User:JTtheOG|JTtheOG]] flagged it as a possible [[WP:COPYVIO]], but I think that it is more the case that it's an undeclared [[WP:COI]] and/or unintentional sockpuppetry, with editors acting on the subject's behalf, and using the subject's resume/CV as source material. Which of course, the subject uses on his institution web page, hence the [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&oldid=1258751572&action=compare&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sfu.edu.hk%2Fen%2Fschools-and-offices%2Fschools-and-departments%2Ffelizberta-lo-padilla-tong-school-of-social-sciences%2Facademic-staff%2Fprof-tsui-ming-sum%2Findex.html c. 80% similarity]

I note that the creating editor [[User:Tsui lincoln]] has only [[Special:Contributions/Tsui_lincoln|contributed]] to this article. Also, other substantial contributors:

* [[User:Jliang7781]] [[Special:Contributions/Jliang7781|contribs]]
* [[User:Liang Jianqiang]] [[Special:Contributions/Liang_Jianqiang|contribs]]
* [[Special:Contributions/14.202.58.61|14.202.58.61 contribs]]

''may'' be sockpuppets for a single person - the edit summaries, to me, suggest that they are, and admit that they are editing on behalf of the subject.

In any case, I am not quite sure what best to do - I've drawn out some of the subject's more notable publications from the text body into a Selected Publications section, with some citations, which should get it off the [[WP:NOV24]] backlog - that is my principal motivation! - but I am not especially interested in completely revamping the article, at least in the short term. None of the other alternatives (removing the copied content, submitting it for deletion) seemed especially attractive - because my sense is that the subject is probably sufficiently notable under [[WP:ACADEMIC]] - and I didn't want, in the first instance, to fling around COI / sockpuppetry accusations on the article's Talk page, as I think they were certainly not malicious in intent, and the edits happened six years ago. I would be grateful for some advice as to the best course of action. Thanks in advance! [[User:SunloungerFrog|SunloungerFrog]] ([[User talk:SunloungerFrog|talk]]) 13:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:[[User:SunloungerFrog|SunloungerFrog]] the 80+% copy of an '''all rights reserved''' source is way over the threshold, and there's nothing worth keeping without that, so I've deleted on G12. I'll post coi warnings too [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 14:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jimfbleak|Jimfbleak]] thanks for your help! [[User:SunloungerFrog|SunloungerFrog]] ([[User talk:SunloungerFrog|talk]]) 14:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:::[[User:SunloungerFrog|SunloungerFrog]] I've posted COI welcome messages and tagged the accounts with AFG-sock warnings [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 14:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::And if it is a series of sockpuppets you're dealing with on the articles, than you should know where to [[Wikipedia:SSP|report it]]. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 15:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::{{u|2601AC47}} there are half a dozen SPA accounts editing this article between 2007 and 2021. Most of the account names are obviously similar, and I agree with [[User:SunloungerFrog|SunloungerFrog]] that there is no real attempt to evade scrutiny, but none of the accounts seem to have had COI or multiple accounts warnings until today. [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 15:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Named reference in infobox, unsure how to access ==

I'm trying to access citations in [[Template:Infobox_darmstadtium]] and finding that they aren't ever defined elsewhere. For example:

 <nowiki>|electrons per shell comment=''(predicted)''<ref name=Haire/></nowiki>

There's no other references to '''Haire''' in that article except further calls of the citation. How can I find the code it's referring to?

The wikidata items for both [[d:Q1266|Darmstadtium]] and the [[d:Q8085511|infobox page]] don't have the reference either.
[[User:Corsaka|Corsaka]] ([[User talk:Corsaka|talk]]) 17:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:This seems to stem from [[Special:diff/prev/517147780|this edit]] in 2012, when the reference named "electron-configuration" was renamed "Haire", with no explanation. The template thereafter started reporting that Haire" was multiply defined - though I don't see another definition of it.
:My guess is that at that point it was in a transcluded template, but I'm not sure which; and the definition was later removed from darmstadtium, and later still removed from whichever included template had it. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:OK, the definition of ref name "Haire" was removed in [[Special:Diff/prev/882647753|this edit in 2019]], and the template stopped reporting a duplicate reference when you look at it. 
:That version still has citations of "Haire", so it must still be defined somewhere in scope; but I don't know where. Presumably it's now been removed from wherever it still was. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Luckily, I've found it! The infobox has a small [[List_of_data_references_for_chemical_elements|references]] button that contains several lists worth of references for all this data. I've found the exact reference on [[Electron_configurations_of_the_elements_(data_page)|the electron configuration data page]].
::I still don't fully understand why <code><nowiki><ref name=Haire/></nowiki></code> links directly to it, though, so if anyone has further insight, that'd be appreciated.
::[[User:Corsaka|Corsaka]] ([[User talk:Corsaka|talk]]) 18:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::If both the defining citation and the calling citation end up on the same page (eg by being in separate templates that are both transcluded) then I think they will match up. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Is it possible to see which pages the current page is transcluding? WhatLinksHere does the opposite, only showing pages that transclude the current page. There's a light inconsistency between the two citations that I've only just seen, and now I'm curious as to where exactly this is coming from. [[User:Corsaka|Corsaka]] ([[User talk:Corsaka|talk]]) 19:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Corsaka}} See "Pages transcluded onto the current version of this page" at the bottom of the edit window. For a preview it lists what the preview is transcluding. The Haire ref is from [[Template:Element-symbol-to-oxidation-state-data]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
: Hi guys, you may try 'advanced' searching for {{code|1=insource:"Haire"}} in the 'Templates' space. I would be happy to do it for you, but it's quite annoying task to perform on my mobile's screen. --[[User:CiaPan|CiaPan]] ([[User talk:CiaPan|talk]]) 18:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== Friends Church (Yorba Linda) ==

Could someone please take a look at my comment at [[Talk:Friends Church (Yorba Linda)]]? I would prefer to not edit that page myself because I know some people who go there and want to avoid the appearance of a COI. That and I pretty much don't edit articles any longer for reasons I won't go into here. Thanks! --[[User:Guy Macon Alternate Account|Guy Macon Alternate Account]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon Alternate Account|talk]]) 17:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:Sure! The job has been completed, and all of the updates have been made. [[User:Midtv22342|Midtv22342]] ([[User talk:Midtv22342|talk]]) 19:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== User Page CSS Help ==

I am an avid user of the Simple English Wikipeida and have helped out with the editing on Simple English and this Wikipedia. I am working on copying my User Page onto this Wikipedia, and one of my CSS styles on the [[User:Midtv22342|page]] are giving me errors about how the CSS has to be sanitized. Is this intended behavior? If it is, how do I "Sanitize" the CSS? Thanks in advance.     [[User:Midtv22342/EmojiRain.css|Link to the CSS]] 

[[User:Midtv22342|Midtv22342]] ([[User talk:Midtv22342|talk]]) 19:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Midtv22342}} It's intended and can only be done by an interface administrator. You can place this on the talk page:
<pre>{{Edit interface-protected}}
Please change the content model to sanitized CSS. ~~~~</pre>
:[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Or you can wait for a iadmin who happens to be watching the help desk to change the content model for you ... [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 22:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

= November 22 =

== I give you every year all that I can afford.  Please stop with the incessant begathon ==

I give $50 a year to Wikipedia.  That is all that I can afford, most years.  However, ever time, in the past few months, that I try to use Wikipedia (even on a near daily basis), I am confronted with your begathon for more money.  Please stop.  I have given you all that I can.  Please, no more of this daily of “Give us more money”. [[Special:Contributions/67.83.212.36|67.83.212.36]] ([[User talk:67.83.212.36|talk]]) 00:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:A legitimate concern that others have had over the years. However, if you are tired of seeing the fundraising banners, you can [[Wikipedia:CREATEANACCOUNT|create an account]] and uncheck {{myprefs|Banners|uncheck={{int:centralnotice-campaign-type-fundraising}}}}. You may still donate annually as you please, granted that this is still a "begathon" by the WMF; if you have concerns about that, see [[meta:Fundraising|here]]. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 00:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::There is no way to connect your IP address when reading Wikipedia with any financial donation you may have made to the Wikimedia Foundation. If there was, it would be a privacy violation. As 2601AC47 points out, registering an account gives you the ability to shut off the fundraising banners. Plus, it is free, quick and easy, and gives you higher levels of privacy and anonymity. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 01:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== Dr. Judy Mikovits page ==
{{courtesy link|Judy Mikovits}}

You have total lies about Dr. Mikovits who had the cure for aides before it killed so many. They put her in prison and stole all her research to stop her from letting the cure be known. Everything you have on her is from the "Powers that Be" that are controlling this world. You should learn the truth before putting false information on Wikipedia. I recommend you learn the truth and correct her page. She is one of the good guys but you fell for the lies and propaganda against her and posted it. [[Special:Contributions/2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C|2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C]] ([[User talk:2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C|talk]]) 02:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I have donated to you when i can as an elderly person on a very small fixed income. But seeing that you didn't research Dr. Judy Mikovits before postimg lies, i don't know if i want to donate again unless i know you have done the research on people you have posted false information on. [[Special:Contributions/2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C|2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C]] ([[User talk:2603:8080:A00:715E:FD91:5B64:40B6:AD7C|talk]]) 02:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:First, per the [[WP:BLP|biographies of living persons]], [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] and [[WP:V|verifiability policies]], there's little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. To pull from them: The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. The aim is to inform, not influence.
:Secondly, as noted in a section above, you're not obligated in any way to donate, but still... <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 02:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::Moreover, she's subject to contentious topic restrictions by ArbCom for good reasons. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 02:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::What Wikipedia editors do is accurately summarize what published [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] say about a topic, Mikovitz in this case, not what random indignant people on the internet say. [[Judy Mikovits]] has 56 references to reliable sources, and that article summarizes them. If you think that your threat to withhold financial donations will influence our content decisions, then I have a few words for you: ''no it won't and we don't care''. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 05:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

: One of [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|Five Pillars of Wikipedia]] is ''"Wikipedia is free content that '''anyone can''' use, '''edit''', and distribute"''. This means '''you can edit''', too. If you have any '''[[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|Reliable source]]''' about the subject, '''[[Wikipedia:Be bold|Be bold]]''' and add relevant info to the article. We are happy to present all the solid, '''[[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiable]]''' information. <br>(BTW, your donation goes to [[Wikimedia Foundation]] who runs Wikipedia, not to us, authors and editors, so whether you do or do not donate does not affect our activity here.) --[[User:CiaPan|CiaPan]] ([[User talk:CiaPan|talk]]) 07:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:. . . although actually you can't edit it, not yet, anyway, as it's semi-protected. What you can do in the meantime is, on [[Talk:Judy Mikovits]], use [[Template:Edit semi-protected]] to specify changes that would improve the article, of course citing reliable, disinterested sources for these improvements. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 12:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
: You can read arguments similar to yours, and refutations of them, at [[Talk:Judy Mikovits]]. Also, please see [[WP:FRINGE]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:Could I advise you to read [[WP:TRUTH]]? In short, we are not the truth, we do not claim to be the truth, and it is not our goal to be the truth. <span style="font-family: times new roman;">[[User:Industrial Insect|Industrial Insect]] [[User talk:Industrial Insect|(talk)]]</span> 16:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== Template question ==

{{tl|Historical Dictionary of Switzerland}} currently has in its documentaten that the <code>|date=</code> should always be written as YYYY-MM-DD and it's also displayed that way. Would it be possible to make it display ''21 November 2024'' instead of ''2024-11-21''? [[User:1AmNobody24|<span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;background-color: #4D4DFF;color: white">Nobody</span>]] ([[User talk:1AmNobody24|<span style="color: #4D4DFF">talk</span>]]) 07:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|1AmNobody24}} The documentation seems obsolete. In ancient times we usually wikilinked dates and had a feature to autoformat such date links but it has been possible to write anything in <code>date</code> since the link brackets were removed in 2009.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Historical_Dictionary_of_Switzerland&diff=prev&oldid=334730245] It will just display whatever is written. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::Sounds like it will be easier to just go change it with AWB. [[User:1AmNobody24|<span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;background-color: #4D4DFF;color: white">Nobody</span>]] ([[User talk:1AmNobody24|<span style="color: #4D4DFF">talk</span>]]) 12:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== how to better myself ==

and better Wikipedia. I'm a quadriplegic learning to read faster on the internet through Wikipedia and type with the keyboard on screen using the most and other devices. I joined Wikipedia to learn more and to better myself. in the why did I join Wikipedia page. I wish it would have a to better myself. or an optional type in why I join. I joined because I wanted to teach and learn at the same time remember for that I need a repository that's teaching and learning [[User:TheChrisyllabus|TheChrisyllabus]] ([[User talk:TheChrisyllabus|talk]]) 09:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{reply to|TheChrisyllabus}} - I've posted a welcome notice on your user talk page. Please click on the link marked "Learn more about editing", which takes you to a page with lots of helpful links. Any questions, please ask at my talk page. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 11:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|TheChrisyllabus}} Welcome! I know of Wikipedia editors who are blind and use screen-reading software, but not of anyone else reading or editing in your circumstances, though there must be. One of the former is [[User:Graham87]], and he might know if there is a forum or user-group for people using various kinds of assistive technology to read or edit Wikipedia. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::Not really, but you can ask accessibility-related questions at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Accessibility]]. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 16:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|Pigsonthewing}}, I think people have missed TheChrisyllabus's point, at least as I understand it. When someone creates a new WP account, do they encounter a survey that asks "Why are you joining WP?" (I created my account long enough ago that I don't recall what I encountered.) I think TheChrisyllabus is saying that they wish there had been either a survey option saying "to better myself" or a survey fill-in option where they could have filled in "to better myself." If such a survey exists, I have no idea how the options are determined and whom to pass the suggestion along to. If such a survey doesn't exist, then clearly I've misunderstood. [[User:FactOrOpinion|FactOrOpinion]] ([[User talk:FactOrOpinion|talk]]) 17:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== Submitting an article ==

I have done a lot of research on a person who is not the subject of a Wikipedia page, although two of his sons are. I'd like to submit the article without going through the editing training. Please advise if this is possible. Many thanks. [[User:Geoff Blow|Geoff Blow]] ([[User talk:Geoff Blow|talk]]) 14:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:As long as it's not a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]] with the person in question.
:[[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] To create an article, follow these steps:
#Read '''[[Wikipedia:Your first article|Your first article]]''' carefully.
#If you don't have an account, consider [[WP:Signup|creating one]] (it's not essential, but it makes some things easier, especially communicating with other editors) and logging in.
#Learn the basics of editing with the [[Wikipedia:Tutorial]]
#[[WP:N|Make sure the subject is notable enough to warrant a stand-alone article]]
#Gather [[WP:IRS|reliable sources]] to [[WP:CITE|cite]] in the article
#Make sure no article on the subject exists under a different title by typing the subject into the search box and clicking 'Search'
#Use the [[WP:Article Wizard|Article Wizard]] to create a draft. 
#Create the article, including all your references, making sure you adhere to the [[WP:MOS|Manual of Style]] and our [[WP:LAYOUT|article layout guidelines]]. Base the article on what the references say, rather than on what you know.
#Once you believe that your draft meets Wikipedia's requirements, submit it for review by picking the "Submit your draft for review" button in the draft.
#Be aware that many drafts are not accepted the first time, or even the second time they are submitted for review, for failing to adhere to our [[WP:POLICY|policies and guidelines]]. New articles by new users are particularly likely not to be accepted, due to new users' unfamiliarity with our rules. Consider gaining experience by [[Wikipedia:Cleanup|editing existing articles]] before attempting to create new ones.<!-- Template:HD --> <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 14:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:Also, take it from me, the training's mostly through trial and error. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 15:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Geoff Blow}} You're kind of asking "I want to build a house but I don't want to take classes in construction." Is there a particular reason you don't want to learn about Wikipedia first? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 15:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::See also [[WP:ABOUTME]]. This is *very* good advice. While it may seem like fun at first to have a Wikipedia article about yourself, over a period of time many people have found that it isn't, for the reasons laid out in this essay.--'''''[[User:ianmacm|<span style="background:#88b;color:#cff;font-variant:small-caps">♦Ian<span style="background:#99c">Ma<span style="background:#aad">c</span></span>M♦</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ianmacm|(talk to me)]]</sup>''''' 15:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I think I already pointed that out implicitly. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 15:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for this but I don't want to write about myself. The subject of the article died in 1985 but was a very high profile figure locally. I want to show his achievements but understand that the article should be neutral. [[User:Geoff Blow|Geoff Blow]] ([[User talk:Geoff Blow|talk]]) 17:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for this, but I have already written a lot about the subject of my article, who founded my choir 100 years ago and died in 1985. I appreciate that the article should be neutral, which I can do easily. I can list sources, compile lists for Discography, Awards, Competition achievements, Personal life etc.
::what I can't do at the moment is create the hyperlinks to sources or relevant people, such as his two famous children and the most famous competitions in which he competed with the choir. I'd be very happy to submit the article and allow a more experienced editor create these. [[User:Geoff Blow|Geoff Blow]] ([[User talk:Geoff Blow|talk]]) 17:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::May I recommend reaching out to members of [[WP:PROJDIR/MUS|one of these WikiProjects]] who can help you in making that process smooth? <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 17:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::::That's really helpful. Thank you. I'll do that. Best wishes, Geoff [[User:Geoff Blow|Geoff Blow]] ([[User talk:Geoff Blow|talk]]) 20:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== Understanding the correct usage of sources/citing ==

Hello. I'm rather new to contributing to Wikipedia and have a few questions regarding sources.
I recently contributed to the article ([[Distributed_version_control]]), and as such I used a direct manual as a source. But my sources weren't direct or word for word. (E.g "This is what someone said"[1] -> https://example.com/said.pdf)
but instead, it was a rephrase/overview of the source itself. 
An example was "It allows developers to work in independent branches and apply changes that can later be committed, audited and merged (or rejected)" where I sourced (https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.1/process/submitting-patches.html).
Is this up to Wikipedias standard or is direct phrasing required/preferred?
Please let me know, if this isn't up to what is expected I'll undo my changes.

Thank you! [[User:Oak Atsume|Oak Atsume]] ([[User talk:Oak Atsume|talk]]) 15:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:This is where [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] should be noted (and example.com isn't exactly a good one). If they are questionable, self-published or [[WP:DEPS|deprecated]], than they shouldn't be used. Also of note, maybe, is whether this is [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|non-free content]]. Be sure that this is fair use. <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> ([[User talk:2601AC47|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/2601AC47|contribs]]) <span style="font-size:80%"><span style="color:grey;">Isn't a IP anon</span></span> 15:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::Understood. example.com was just an example. For my case, I use direct sources such as the official kernel's documentation and sources from the git documentation itself.
::My main concern is what is considered proper sourcing. In my case, I rephrased things such as "repository and work on such from a local environment where changes are tracked and committed to the local repository." While this isn't directly stated in the source itself (https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Revision-Selection), the idea and statement still stand. Is this considered appropriate? or is direct sourcing preferred? [[User:Oak Atsume|Oak Atsume]] ([[User talk:Oak Atsume|talk]]) 16:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Hello, @[[User:Oak Atsume|Oak Atsume]]. "Direct sources such as the official kernel's documentation and sources from the git documentation itself" are of very limited value for a Wikipedia article. They may be used once an article has already been substantially written from [[WP:independent sources|independent sources]], to add uncontroversial factual information, but the bulk of the article must be written based on independent sources, i.e. what people wholly unconnected with the subject of the article have chosen to write and get published  in [[WP:reliable sources|reliable sources]]. And in particular, non-independent sources do not contribute to establishing that the subject meets Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:notability|notability]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:Be careful, as well, to only say in an article what the source says. We prohibit any effort at "interpretation" which approaches [[:WP:OR|original research and synthesis]]. --[[User:Orangemike|<span style="color:#F80">Orange Mike</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:Orangemike|<span style="color:#FA0">Talk</span>]] 16:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== I need help logging in ==

i need help log in [[Special:Contributions/2601:587:8201:9380:C8B4:9D7B:969:A9AA|2601:587:8201:9380:C8B4:9D7B:969:A9AA]] ([[User talk:2601:587:8201:9380:C8B4:9D7B:969:A9AA|talk]]) 18:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:Please read [[Help:Logging in]] and if you then have a more specific question, feel free to return to the Help Desk. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)