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= June 29 =

== Brick wall full of random holes ==

In the opening credits of the movie ''[[Suddenly, Last Summer (film)|Suddenly, Last Summer]]'', we see a brick wall full of holes in no particular pattern.  Here's a still: [http://monstergirl.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/capturfiles-copy.jpg?w=490&h=266].  Note that there were many more holes than those in the frame of this pic.  They were obviously cut there intentionally.  What's the purpose of these holes ? [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

:Possibly  [[putlog hole]]s ? [[User:Gandalf61|Gandalf61]] ([[User talk:Gandalf61|talk]]) 07:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

::Could be, but I would have expected a more regular pattern if that's the case. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 04:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

:::Our article shows them at staged heights, as do some pictures on google images. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 20:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

:I came across something similar when I was studying architecture a while back, I can't remember all the details, but I think something about drainage, getting damp out from inside the walls, if that's the case here, there'd be something set back within the holes, possibly a vapour barrier, that is a sheet that only lets damp air out and not in. [[Special:Contributions/213.104.128.16|213.104.128.16]] ([[User talk:213.104.128.16|talk]]) 17:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

== Pictures of certain cars  ==

Is there a website that shows pictures of the cars I want to see how they look like?
The following vehicles are:
Peugeot 604 van, Peugeot 304 van, Peugeot 204 van, and Peugeot 305 panel van. --[[Special:Contributions/70.31.19.229|70.31.19.229]] ([[User talk:70.31.19.229|talk]]) 15:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Donmust90
:Have you tried Google Images [http://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi] ? [[User:StewieCartman|StewieCartman]] ([[User talk:StewieCartman|talk]]) 16:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The website www.parkers.co.uk (website of [[Parker's Car Guides]]) has photos of most cars available and also includes both professional written reviews but also owner reviews too. Some content is behind a paywall but I think that's mostly for older cars beyond a certain age. [[User:Ny156uk|ny156uk]] ([[User talk:Ny156uk|talk]]) 23:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

== How does one ask a rabbi/pastor/priest/minister about a certain biblical verse or set of verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament)? ==

How does one, namely a person who is unaffiliated with any religious denomination or sect, find the appropriate time to ask a rabbi/pastor/priest/minister about a denominational interpretation of a certain biblical verse or set of verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament), out of personal interest rather than merely an academic exercise? By the way, where do those people get their knowledge anyway? Is hermeneutics passed down orally, from teacher to student, or written down on paper? And is it possible to find an interfaith, ecumenical interpretation of the Bible? [[User:Sneazy|Sneazy]] ([[User talk:Sneazy|talk]]) 20:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:You can just call your local rabbi/pastor/priest/minister and tell them you'd like to ask some questions, and how that can be arranged.  You may, however, want to make sure you don't accidentally call a rabid/pastor/priest/monster.  They will invite you over then eat your brains. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 21:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
{{hat|mild off-topic joking}}
:: I sense sarcasm in your second sentence. [[User:Sneazy|Sneazy]] ([[User talk:Sneazy|talk]]) 21:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I am fairly certain that is not technically sarcasm, someone will know the correct term. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 22:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
::::It's called a [[joke]].  --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#000099;">Jayron</span>]]'''''[[User talk:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009900;">32</span>]]''''' 23:07, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::[[Catachresis]], incidentally. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] ([[User talk:Tevildo|talk]]) 23:31, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::Interesting, thanks. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 23:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
{{hab}}
You can try [[AskMoses.com]]. 
You can also try seeing if your question has already been asked. It's quite likely: the OT/Hebrew Bible has been fairly well examined over the last few millennia. In traditional Judaism, the classic commentary is that of medieval commentator [[Rashi]] and you can find his comments for yourself at [http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.htm this site]. Bear in mind a few things: 1) there are many other commentaries 2) Rashi rarely recorded his questions, only his answers. "What's bothering Rashi?" is a good question to ask... and the title of a book that has sold quite well. 3) Rashi's answers are rarely his own: he usually records his preference from the explanations of ancient [[midrash]]ic texts. More information in the article about him I linked above.

Finally, you can post your question/s here, and depend on the goodwill of our volunteers to do the legwork for you (which is not the same as indulging themselves in OR and answering for themselves, because of course, we wouldn't dream of doing that) --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) 22:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

:Interpretation of the Bible is called [[exegesis]] or [[Biblical hermeneutics|hermeneutics]].  There are bibles which have extensive [[Marginalia]] where a particular theologian has provided exegetic commentary regarding certain passages.  You may find that helpful.  Be aware, however, that Christian and Jewish traditions are very diverse, and exegesis will vary between the esoteric and mystical ([[Kabbalah]] for example) to the straight forward (many Protestant traditions hold to "read it and come up with your own meaning", and discourage excessive commentary.  See [[Sola scriptura]], a common Protestant tradition as part of the [[Five Solae]], which holds that the scripture is sufficient in itself to provide its own full meaning, and does not require any special knowledge or training.  See also [[Clarity of scripture]]).  --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#000099;">Jayron</span>]]'''''[[User talk:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009900;">32</span>]]''''' 23:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
" an interfaith, ecumenical interpretation of the Bible" is likely to be one disagreed on by all parties. Cynical, probably. True, definitely. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) 23:11, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:: What do you mean? I have purchased a very ecumenical bible version. It's the New Oxford Annotated Bible of the New Revised Standard Version (3rd Edition). Surely, the editors come from multiple faith backgrounds and somehow work together in annotating. What do you mean by "cynical"? What do you mean by "true"? Can you explain by writing in complete sentences? [[User:Sneazy|Sneazy]] ([[User talk:Sneazy|talk]]) 00:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
::: The fact that a particular version of the Bible was put together by people with many different faith backgrounds does not mean that they speak for the entirety of those faiths.  Or any faiths.  Or any people other than themselves.  There is no one "right" version of the Bible.  There will always be lack of agreement about the meaning of any biblical passage you could possibly choose.  --  [[User:JackofOz|<span style="font-family:Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-family:Papyrus;"><sup>[Talk]</sup></span>]] 00:51, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
::::But I didn't talk about "right" version of the Bible. I understand that there are many interpretations, and I do keep that in mind. :P [[User:Sneazy|Sneazy]] ([[User talk:Sneazy|talk]]) 01:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Also, good scholars can distinguish between facts and interpretations. As an example, [[Isaiah]] uses the Hebrew ''[[almah]]'' ("young women") to describe the mother of the messiah. The new testament cites the original prophecy in the Greek translation ''"parthenos"'' (virgin). A scholarly approach would list and discuss that fact. It would even, possibly, discuss the question if the author fo [[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]] knew about this difference or not, and if his choice was intentional. All this can be done without coming to a conclusion about the truth of the religious belief in a virgin birth. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 08:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::{{small|The Christmas carol "Silent Night" weds all these ideas in the line about the "round young virgin". ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 16:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)}} 
:::::<small>On a side note, a "virgin" may be interpreted as a "young girl" or "maiden". I suspect the technical distinction between "virgin" and "maiden" and "young girl" is a modern invention. [[User:Sneazy|Sneazy]] ([[User talk:Sneazy|talk]]) 17:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::You've got that sideways.  Virgin has always meant virgin.  The claim is (I haven't investigated its truth) that the Aramaic word translated as ''virgin'' in the Latin bible could have meant virgin or just young girl.  And it's ''round ((yon virgin mother) and (child))'', of course, for those not familiar. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 18:26, 30 June 2013 (UTC)</small>
:::::::<small>Not that I want to be obnoxious, but if you look a few comments up, you can see that its not [[Aramaic]] (the language of Jesus), but [[Biblical Hebrew]] (although they may share this particular word), and its not the Latin bible (I assume you mean the [[Vulgate]]), but the "original" [[Koine]] Greek of the [[New Testament]] that introduced the "virgin" meaning. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 18:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)</small>
::::::::But that makes no sense, since there would be no stories in Hebrew about Mary.  I mentioned the Vulgate because the ''Greek'' New Testament obviously doesn't use the Latin word ''virgo'', which is what Sneazy referred to.  The argument itself seems tortured and has an obvious POV.  "We don't literally want Mary to be a virgin, so we will point out that the ''Hebrew'' word from the Torah meaning virgin could also just mean maiden"? I am an atheist, but not an anti-Christian.  I have heard the "means young girl" argument before.  But the person I was arguing with was an author who believed Jesus' existence itself was a hoax.  His "scholarship" was tendentious and narrowly self-limited. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 18:55, 30 June 2013 (UTC)</small>
:::::::::Well, according to Matthew, [[Isaiah 7:14]] (Hebrew) is a prophecy of Jesus-the-messiah, and he uses the Greek "parthenos" instead of the Hebrew "almah" to describe the mother of said messiah (which is not named in Isaiah, but, by context, presumably Mary in Matthew's view). That may be because the author of Matthew was a "modern" Jew, and as such his primary language was Koine Greek, and possibly did not even speak Hebrew. Anyways, that is where the "virgin birth" concept comes into the Bible. The original language of the New Testament is Greek, and the early Latin versions just translated the Greek text, both of Matthew, but also of the Old Testament Septuagint. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 21:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Actually, most of the [[Vulgate]] OT was translated by Jerome from the Hebrew, not from the Septuagint. The [[Vetus Latina]] was translated from the Septuagint, and predates Jerome by a few decades, but it hasn't had nearly the level of influence of the Vulgate, and in any case the damage done to the source text's meaning by the LXX's ''parthenos'' had been done long before any Latin translation came along. [[User:Evanh2008|Evanh2008]]&nbsp;<sup>([[User talk:Evanh2008|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Evanh2008|contribs]])</sup> 23:16, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Culturally speaking, the terms "virgin", "maiden" and "young girl" would all have meant the same thing, wouldn't they? A girl not married (and not a harlot) would naturally be assumed to be a virgin, right? ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 21:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Very likely not. Marriage is a fuzzy concept in pre-modern societies, and the obsession with virginity, purity, and (no) sex is a fairly late invention, in particular for commoners. Take a look at renaissance Italy - everybody who was somebody was illegitimate (and half where descended from clergy, or even the pope). --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 21:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC) 
::::::::::::Definitely. (It's not often I disagree with Stefan.) The word "maid", for example, means "young girl", "unmarried girl". Virgin" if you give the benefit of the doubt. And you do give he benefit of the doubt. As with "jeune fille" in French. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 22:38, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::::"Maiden" is etymologically equivalent to "virgin".[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=maiden&searchmode=none] ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 23:48, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Quoting from Bugs' reference: "Maid Marian, one of Robin Hood's companions, first recorded 1520s, perhaps from French, where Robin et Marian have been stock names for ''country lovers'' since 13c" (emphasis mine). I don't really know the cultural context of Isaiah's time (given that there are three of them, and writing about even earlier times), but the bible is fairly generous about people "knowing" each other, and to provoke shock, it needs things like rape coupled with incest (cf. [[Lot_(biblical_person)#Lot_and_his_daughters|Lot]] - and he is supposed to be the righteous one, offering his daughters to the mob and all).  --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 09:47, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
:I would think there are many websites discussing the matter. But calling a local rabbi would be an excellent idea. It's kinda like ''their job'' to know stuff about the O.T. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 23:32, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
::Do not forget the [[Turing test]]. --[[User:Pp.paul.4|Pp.paul.4]] ([[User talk:Pp.paul.4|talk]]) 00:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)