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== Dead link of book sources ==

I found a [[Michael Gonzalez-Wallace#cite ref-9|dead link]] that isn't archived and the page of the author that's on the website is devoid of his books, so I thought I can find another website hosting information about the book. I used the ISBN to find an Amazon and Walmart page of the book but I'm not confident about some of the factors pertaining to the replacing the dead link with alternate sources. (I'm not sure what's the dead link suppose to show because there isn't a snapshot on wayback machine, archive.today and google cite).

The reason I'm considering to change the dead link with other sources is because the first paragraph of this [[Wikipedia:Link rot#Mitigating a dead link|section]] said to "consider finding an alternative source" with fulfilled condition of "all attempts to repair the link will be unsuccessful" (Which I think it is because the author page doesn't have his books and there's no found snapshots on some of the most popular archive services.). With my interpretation, the second sentence "Alternative sources about broad topics are usually easily located" implies there can be a broad selection with the only following stated conditions to be "but be extremely careful to avoid citing [[Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks|mirrors and forks of Wikipedia]] itself, which would violate [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]].".

Some of the information I'm trying to find to help what to do are: What are the conditions to choosing and listing an alternate source for a dead link, specifically when entailing a book. If the condition of "all attempts to repair the link will be unsuccessful" is fulfilled, should there be attempts to replace the dead link with alternate sources, not at all or some other actions? I haven't found information on how to properly link to a book source so, what's expected to be of the reliability, legality and other factors when linking to a book source (copyrighted, not public domain) on both of the circumstances of book metadata and book content. [[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] ([[User talk:DedoraTuolloin|talk]]) 09:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] I'll try to answer the specific question rather than the general. The dead link in the article just confirms he wrote and published a book. There's no problem in finding a link to the book: for example [https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Super_Body_Super_Brain/kjQ1K6RR2iIC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Super+Body,+Super+Brain&printsec=frontcover this one at google books] The article already has as its next citation a secondary CBS source. In this case, therefore, I'd be inclined to create a {{tl|cite book}} reference to replace what's currently there, with the Google books link as the |URL= parameter. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 10:22, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::Since you can only answered 1 of the questions. Can you list or link any articles or information that might help me in answering the rest of the questions? [[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] ([[User talk:DedoraTuolloin|talk]]) 13:32, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::If the book is already the best and most reliable source, then showing people what they can do to get the book (giving them a link to where they can buy it, and links to where they can borrow it or view it if that's possible) is good enough. "If you bring me that book I can prove to you that the information is in there" '''IS''' a good enough reference, as long as it's said truthfully and the book really is a reliable source.
:::It's always good to also have other reliable sources, but don't take away the book info. "You'll have to buy the book to know for sure" is a pain, and of course nobody really likes it, but it's still legitimate. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 16:40, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|TooManyFingers}}, no, I am sorry, but we do not routinely link to bookselling sites, whether it is the publisher or a company like Amazon. That's promotional editing and not permitted on Wikipedia. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Are you implying dead links of book sources can be linked to a page that doesn't directly provide access to the book (through selling or file upload)?. There's many projects that catalogs books, magazines and other literacy and it's information without promotional or monetary incentive, is there any negative and positive factors in having choosing from some of those alternative sources for dead links of books? [[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] ([[User talk:DedoraTuolloin|talk]]) 03:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::::There does not ''have'' to be a link. It's sufficient to give the full bibliographical details of the book: these would enable anyone to obtain the book from its publisher (directly or via vendors) if it's in print, or from second-hand vendors if it isn't. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.209.45|94.1.209.45]] ([[User talk:94.1.209.45|talk]]) 19:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::If a speedy decision on finding alternative links isn't much viable then I should consider alternating with filling as much "bibliographical details of the book" and the cite-books template as possible? [[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] ([[User talk:DedoraTuolloin|talk]]) 02:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Yes, the cite-book (or cite journal, etc) template is ideal. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.209.45|94.1.209.45]] ([[User talk:94.1.209.45|talk]]) 01:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:DedoraTuolloin|DedoraTuolloin]] You should find [[WP:Link rot]] useful for the more general issue. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 19:59, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

== Question about using an editor as a source ==

Hello friends,

I'm trying to help make [[Shalë, Lipjan]] nicer. It seems like someone who lives there went to a lot of trouble to share information about the location with us. I want to do right by them so I wanted to ask if anyone could help guide me on how to edit their material in a respectful way? Is there anyway to use their material and cite them? I understand that the answer may be to delete most of it. I was hoping someone might have a nuanced take on how to approach this. 

Thank you very much for your help,

[[User:ViolanteMD|ViolanteMD]] ([[User talk:ViolanteMD|talk]]) 00:46, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

:The article lacks enough references , there are just 3 with 1 empty. One of the ways you can help improve it is to get enough independent citations as I wonder how the article stands till date without those. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 01:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you for your reply! I am having some trouble finding good articles on the subject but will try tomorrow! [[User:ViolanteMD|ViolanteMD]] ([[User talk:ViolanteMD|talk]]) 02:49, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Great @[[User:ViolanteMD|ViolanteMD]] [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 05:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]], in this case [[WP:NPLACE]] applies since Shalë is a village and so it can get away with fewer independent citations (although of course the article would be better with them, as always!). [[User:StartGrammarTime|StartGrammarTime]] ([[User talk:StartGrammarTime|talk]]) 04:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Alright! @[[User:StartGrammarTime|StartGrammarTime]] [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 05:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Fix my userpage please  ==

Hello Teahouse, I would glad if anyone here could help me in fixing my userpage. I find it difficult to arrange the userboxes below, even the infobox is messed up, thanks. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 03:19, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:User pages should not have an Infobox or Categories[[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 05:19, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|David notMD}} User pages shouldn't have article categories but on [[User:Josedimaria237]] I only see user categories which belong there, and {{tl|Infobox Wikipedia user}} is meant for user pages. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:You can check out similar userpage as yours and see how they are arranged. 
:Also, I think someone did something already. The floating flags look nice by the way! [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 06:05, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::I am corrected. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Tesleemah}} Thanks. I wish you luck in the elections. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 15:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks so much, I appreciate [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 16:16, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help determining notability ==

Hello. Lately I've been doing research about an activist investor and hedgefund manager, J. Carlo Cannell, who has had an interesting and successful career. Among his investment strategies is buying shares of mismanaged/dysfunctional companies, and urging board members to make changes in public, written letters (which are often fiery and fun to read). In other words, activist investing. His company has received quite a bit of coverage in financial news circles for its antics.

I've been working on gathering sources to establish the notability of the company, which I put in [[User:Fantasyfootball420/sandbox|my sandbox]]. I would love somebody to take a look and tell me if they think he or his company have received enough coverage to be considered notable.

More specifically:
* I've found one article that provides a direct, detailed profile of the founder/company. The website that published it seems no-name, but the author of the article is a domain expert in finance (CIO of an asset management company, former hedgefund analyst), and author of 4 books (not sure if they are popular?) about value investing and activist investing. 
* I've found many articles that are from reliable, independent sources (New York Times, Associated press) about ''actions'' that his company has taken, particularly their activist battles. While these sources don't give direct profiles/coverage of the company, they talk with detail (more than just brief updates) about the notable actions of the company. Does this constitute "significant coverage"?
** In [[WP:ORGDEPTH]], it says "Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization." It seems like these articles (which you can see in my sandbox in the second section) may provide commentary/description of the company (in particular, its actions).
* I've also found some miscellaneous other stuff which I would love a second pair of eyes on.

Is J. Carlo Cannell or his company, Cannell Capital, notable? [[User:Fantasyfootball420|Fantasyfootball420]] ([[User talk:Fantasyfootball420|talk]]) 07:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:For the penultimate source listed in your sandbox: you can use it to support the statement that he rejoined the company, but it's not independent and so doesn't contribute to notability. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 08:02, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:I just spot-checked one of the "about actions" ones, this one: [https://wtop.com/business-finance/2022/04/news-publisher-lee-faces-renewed-pressure-from-hedge-funds/]. I'd say that this is significant coverage, in the sense that it is clearly more than a passing mention. It also gives me hope that there's quite a bit more coverage out there for you to find, since this is actually an article about Lee Enterprises, in which Cannell Capital is nonetheless a major element. But I wouldn't want to base an entire article on a company on mentions like this one. [[WP:NCORP]] battles at AfD aren't as easy to predict as many others, so I wouldn't want to tell you that you ''couldn't'' do so, but if this is the kind of thing you're finding and nothing better, my advice is to hang onto all of this and wait until you have some more experience with corp articles and lurking/participating at [[WP:AFD]] before giving it a try. Once you stick around long enough to become an extended-confirmed editor (30 days, 500 edits), you can use [[WP:TWL]]'s access to newspapers.com for free, and that will probably help you find a lot more. Given the dates on these articles, you're definitely losing some to the "digital gap" of the early 2000s - stuff that wasn't born digital, but also wasn't seen as "important old stuff to digitize". So there's more out there and I think you can probably do this, just maybe not now.
:I don't like that direct, detailed profile. I don't think it's all that direct and detailed, for one thing, but also, it certainly can't count for notability purposes because it's tied too closely to promotional purposes - there's a link in there about paying to go to a conference at which he's speaking. So in this case whether the author is a domain expert or not isn't relevant. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 17:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== ClueBot III delay? ==

Page: [[User talk:Ss0jse]]

Question: "This page has archives. Sections older than 1 hours may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present." Is "may" the operative word there? [[User:Ss0jse|Ss0jse]] ([[User talk:Ss0jse|talk]]) 15:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

:ClueBot may be broken at one time, and not at he other. from what I unerstand [[User:Luhanopi|Luhanopi]] ([[User talk:Luhanopi|talk]]) 19:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
: One hour archiving is very short.  Usually the time is set to many days.  I'm not sure how often the bot checks any particular page.  [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 21:30, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::When I set my archives up the first time, I think it took a couple of days for the bot to arrive. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 17:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== AWB and Kingbotk ==

I'm about to begin tagging articles for [[WP:WikiProject Anthropology/Oral tradition taskforce]]. I've gotten AWB to work however I'm stuck regarding KingbotK (TL;DR the KingbotK plugin fails to load). Is KingbotK still used for tagging WP banners? I assume so since it's listed at [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Plugins]], however on its main page it says it's kept for historical reference. I've followed the [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Kingbotk plugin/User guide|instructions]] and have downloaded it and moved it into the same file as ''AutoWikiBrowser.exe.config''. When I load AWB and click the 'Plugins' tab I get two options: 'Load...' and 'Manager...' Load takes me to the file and I click on 'Kingbotk AWB Plugin.dll'. Nothing changes, and when I click Manager it tells me it failed to load with no further information or options. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 15:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

: {{Ping|Kowal2701}} You'd do better to ask at [[Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser]], where the AWB experts hang out. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 21:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]] thank you for replying, I did a few days ago but haven’t had a reply [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 21:36, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:Not an AWB expert here, but I'd assume that the main page is correct over the AWB plugins list. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 17:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== [[Template:Redirect reason]] ==

Idea to reason redirects
Currently uses a single box and dosent function at all
(The reason why i made this is so that people can look at WHY that redirect page exists)
Can someone add some way to fill in the reason? [[User:Shjunpei|<sub>sh</sub>'''Junpei''']] [[User talk:Shjunpei|talk]] >:] 18:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{re|Shjunpei}} This probably shouldn't be a template; we already have [[WP:RCAT|redirect categories]] for explaining the purpose of redirects. [[User:Elli|Elli]] ([[User_talk:Elli|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Elli|contribs]]) 18:30, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== I have a CoI ==

So the high school I go to (won't link it here) has an article. I know that I have a conflict of interest with it, but I do want to improve the article someday. What should I do? Thanks, [[User:TrademarkedTWOrantula|<span style="color: darkgreen"><span style="font-family: Georgia">TWOrantula</span></span>]]<sup><small>TM</small></sup> <small>([[User talk:TrademarkedTWOrantula|enter the web]])</small> 18:15, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, TWOrantula, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please see [[WP:PSCOI]]. In short: you are welcome to make [[WP:edit request|edit request]]s on the article's talk page. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:40, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Revert attack against me ==

Complete discussion is here and action is not yet taken against the user. Here: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1164#User:Shivam Thiruppathi]]. I do not understand why the user keeps reverting all my edits for no reason on various other articles apart from the article in conflict. They neither mention any reason in the edit summary nor responds in the talk pages or their user page. Additionally, his edit summary was in the nature of an attack in one of the instance, it doesn't provide any explanation for the revert and the other edits do not have any explanation. Here:[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_Telugu_film_actresses&diff=1240814848&oldid=1240788210]&nbsp;[[User:456legend|<span style="background:#ADD8E6; color:black; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">456legend</span>]][[User talk:456legend|<span style="background:#FF474C;color:black; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 13:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:An admin tagged the user already to participate in the discussion. Kindly exercise patience while the matter is investigated. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 16:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Tesleemah}} [[User:Liz]] did that on 22 August, and has been ignored, while Shivam Thiruppathi continues to revert 456legend's edits without explanation. I don't think the latter is being impatient by asking here how to proceed. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 18:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::oops, I saw that the request was made today maybe I mixed up. Yes, you can follow up [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 23:37, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|456legend}} Please follow the process at [[WP:DR]] - you can open another [[WP:ANI]] request if you wish. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 18:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Citing for [[nitroglycerin]] ==

Hello! I wanted to know if ''[[The Anarchist Cookbook]]'' is a reliable source to cite for this article. It contains some info about this chemical, but I question its reliability. There is a copy of it on the Internet Archive, I believe. [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 02:01, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]], clearly the ''Cookbook'' neither is an academic work nor was written by somebody with an advanced degree in chemistry. So if you want a simple answer, then it's ''no''. But what do you want to cite it for? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 02:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]] The [[Nitroglycerin#Manufacturing]] part, which needs more citations. [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 02:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]], try a chemistry text. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 02:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::I've found some sources [https://onepetro.org/TRANS/article/82/01/240/161414/Manufacture-of-Nitroglycerin-and-Use-of-High] [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/j150452a028]. Some websites aren't open access unless log in through an institution which sucks. I'm a little too tired to edit at this point and my competence is at the bare minimum so I'll give editing a rest for now. [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 03:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::A bombmaking and illegal drug manufacturing manual written by a teenager is not a reliable source. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 04:34, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

:::::[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]], thank you for confessing that your "competence is at the bare minimum". As it's been decades since I last opened a chemistry textbook (either a very elementary one or one from the 1930s (!) that even then I only partially and hazily understood), my own competence would be seriously inadequate. Perhaps ask for help at [[WT:WikiProject Chemicals]]? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:10, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] In this case, it is easy to find reliable manufacturing references [https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4510#section=Methods-of-Manufacturing from the compound's PubChem entry]. If you could add the two cited sources to the article, that would be great. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 10:35, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] Excuse me for being incessantly annoying, but should I cite the website itself, or the books like ''Lewis, R.J., Sr (Ed.). Hawley's Condensed Chemical  Dictionary. 13th ed. New York, NY: John Wiley & Sons, Inc.  1997., p. 797''? [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 01:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] That's not annoying and is a useful point. We should always cite the underlying source of the information, so the book in this case. PubChem is a database that brings links together but can sometimes be wrong. You should, ideally, check that the book does actually support what the Wikipedia article says. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 10:29, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]], I'll just add to this, since you're getting stuck behind paywalls: Internet Archive allows temporary borrowing of books if you make a free account there. IA's search function isn't great, so I tend to just google "Internet Archive "name of book"". They've got at least a few different copies of ''Hawley's Condensed Chemical Dictionary''. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 17:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:Asilvering|Asilvering]] I can't borrow the copies; all of them say "Book available to patrons with print disabilities". [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 23:50, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Bummer. Can't say I've ever been blocked from checking out a book for that reason. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 23:55, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::And there we go. I cited the 15th edition since I couldn't access the 13th one. The text should be the same; only the pages are different. [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 00:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Three students fell ill after drowning while giving relief, allegations of negligence in hospital treatment ==

learn more [[User:Siam7t9|Siam7t9]] ([[User talk:Siam7t9|talk]]) 07:49, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:This page is for questions about the use of Wikipedia. If you have such a question, feel free to ask it. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 08:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Proofread followed by edit - resistance against the edit   ==

This is to bring to your kind notice that the information given on the Wikipedia is not correct, maybe someone did not try to look into it. 1. Name Spelling Correction, Party Status as active not dissolved hence pertaining text like existed till 1977 to be romoved. [[User:OmGanGanpataye|OmGanGanpataye]] ([[User talk:OmGanGanpataye|talk]]) 07:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:You have already asked this, and been answered, at [[WP:Help Desk#EDIT REVERT]]. If you want to continue the discussion please do so either there or at the Talk page for the article. Please don't start another thread in another place. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 10:24, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article Talk Page Issue ==

Hey guys, I've created a new article and moved it from my sandbox to the main space, but the article talk page redirects to a different article's talk page. What have I missed and how may I go about correcting it? Article - [[St George's Anglican Church, Bluff Point]] [[User:OxygenToxicity|OxygenToxicity]] ([[User talk:OxygenToxicity|talk]]) 07:38, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[Talk:St George's Anglican Church, Bluff Point]] is no longer a redirect. You may wish to add templates to it. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 08:33, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks @[[User:Hoary|Hoary]] [[User:OxygenToxicity|OxygenToxicity]] ([[User talk:OxygenToxicity|talk]]) 11:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Content insertion  ==

Hi, I'm going to write an article on [https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/global-icc-development-awards-announced-as-six-inspiring-initiatives-honoured ICC Development Awards] but, all the awards are listed at [[ICC Awards]].
So, should this content be inserted at [[ICC Awards]] or have a different article.?

Moreover, the subject is looking bit promotional. However, I've gathered the required reliable sources. Should I start writing about it? If yes. Then, where it should be featured.? —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 11:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:From the hyperlink you provided: "Launched in 2002, the ICC Development Awards sheds light on the world-leading work being carried out in ICC Associate Member countries to grow the game globally, whether through innovative development programmes or through inspiring efforts on the field of play." I know nothing about cricket, but that sounds like something to insert into the existing ICC Awards article. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Alright. Thanks. 
::I'll add that content at [[ICC Award#ICC Development Programme Awards]]. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 12:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== AfC comment  ==

Hi, The article [[Irish Cricket Awards]] has been created. But, the AfC comment is still there. Should I remove it or not.? —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 14:10, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Perfectodefecto|Perfectodefecto]] Yes, feel free to remove it as it’s not in draft space. [[User:Kurnahusa|Kurnahusa]] ([[User talk:Kurnahusa|talk]]) 14:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Done. Thanks. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 14:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== New cars for the car brand ==

Can help me in my draft article for [[Draft:Supercars of the World]]. Because I want more Bugattis more Lamb's and more brands for the cars let me know with a link if it's on Wikipedia. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:NinjaMiura|NinjaMiura]] ([[User talk:NinjaMiura#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NinjaMiura|contribs]]) </small>
:Your draft is not suitable for Wikipedia as it contains no citations whatever. Please read the instructions in the box at the top of your draft, delete everything in the draft, and start again after finding reliable independent sources and studying [[WP:Your first article]].[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 12:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:Quoting: {{Olive|Everybody knows how excellent Ferrari is. Just look at the prancing horse. It is a great supercar for you. And has great handling.}} No, [[User:NinjaMiura|NinjaMiura]], I know how expensive to maintain (and how fast to depreciate) a Ferrari is, but not how excellent it is. I'm pretty sure it would not be great for me. Before continuing to work on this draft, perhaps spend a little time reading existing articles and thinking about the way they're written. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::I removed all of the images, as those were supersized, and not relevant to getting the draft approved, but this hodgepoge of personal opinions should be Speedy deleted. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:Gotta be honest here; while I respect the enthusiasm, this whole article seems like something for your personal blog, not an encyclopedia. Anything that likely ''could'' be useful in an article such as this would more appropriately be at [[Supercar]] or possibly a not-yet-created [[List of supercars]]. And everything has to be reliably sourced, not just your offered opinions. If you'd like to improve supercar content here, your best path would be to find key, reliably sourced, encyclopedic material on supercars, either generally or individual supercars, and make those articles even better. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 15:43, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Google index ==

Hi, The recently created article [[Irish Cricket Awards]]'s talk page [[Talk:Irish Cricket Awards]] is getting indexed on the search page rather than its actual article page, whenever I try to reach the article by searching [https://www.google.com/search?q=Irish_Cricket_Awards Irish Cricket Awards] on Google. Is there anything to fix it manually.? or it will get fixed automatically? —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 16:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Perfectodefecto|Perfectodefecto]] {{tq|"recently created"}} is the main thing to look at here, for more you can see [[WP:INDEXING]] but I'll break it down quickly. Articles that are older than 90 days are automatically indexed, as are those that are reviewed by [[WP:NPP|new page patrollers]]. Seemingly, article talk pages are automatically indexed regardless. Articles can take a while to be reviewed by NPP, as there is a hefty backlog at approximately 14k articles needing review, so don't be alarmed that it's not indexed yet, it will be in good time. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 17:03, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Got it. Thanks. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 17:06, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Micah Abbey and Shamon Brown Jr. have no sources. ==

Why does Micah Abbey and Shamon Brown Jr. have no sources and need more sources to establish notability? [[User:Julian Louis|Julian Louis]] ([[User talk:Julian Louis|talk]]) 14:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Julian Louis|Julian Louis]]: Welcome to the Teahouse. Could you check your spellings and supply us with links to the pages you're enquiring about, please? I can't find any articles with those exact titles, so it's hard to know how to answer you, except to say that article content should always be based upon proper sources to establish [[WP:N|Notability]]. 
:If it's a newly-created article you're looking at, it might not yet have been scrutinised for notability. You can check if an article is very new by clicking the 'View History' tab, and looking at the dates of all its edits. Many thanks, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 15:20, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{courtesy link|Draft:Micah Abbey}}; {{courtesy link|Draft:Shamon Brown Jr.}} These [[WP:BLP|BLPs]], both about voice actors from the U.S. Midwest, were sent to [[WP:AFC|AFC]] for lack of references when they were reviewed early last month. Now it's your job to {{tl|Find sources}} that discuss their careers in depth; for starters, beware fansites and Amazon-owned platforms. If you can't find any, then they both likely fail [[WP:NACTOR]]. Come back and tell us if you have any further problems. --[[User:Slgrandson|Slgrandson]] <small>([[User talk:Slgrandson|How's my]] [[Special:Contributions/Slgrandson|egg-throwing coleslaw?]])</small> 17:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Replacing redirect with article ==

Hi, I'm working on an article for the bumblebee subgenus ''Alpinobombus'' ([[User:Dicynodont/drafts/Alpinobombus]]). ''[[Alpinobombus]]'' currently exists as a redirect to [[List of bumblebee species#Alpinobombus|List of bumblebee species § ''Alpinobombus'']]. I've read most of the help pages about redirects, how to create/delete a redirect, etc., but I'm still confused about how to handle this redirect and replace it with the actual ''Alpinobombus'' article. Am I supposed to do any moving of pages, e.g. move the userspace draft into the article namespace (which it says isn't possible because the article name is taken) and deal with the section redirect separately? Or do I just blank the redirect on the current ''Alpinobombus'' page and paste the draft content into it? Thanks for any help. [[User:Dicynodont|Dicynodont]] ([[User talk:Dicynodont|talk]]) 17:10, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Dicynodont}}. Please read [[WP:RTOA]], which should give you the information that you need. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:18, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::By chance, we had a similar question earlier today, now at [[WP:Teahouse#Draftifying a redirect]] which gives some more advice. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 17:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Great, thank you. [[User:Dicynodont|Dicynodont]] ([[User talk:Dicynodont|talk]]) 17:36, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] Thank you! Not sure how I missed that. [[User:Dicynodont|Dicynodont]] ([[User talk:Dicynodont|talk]]) 17:34, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== The Wikipedia Article Deletion; An Inquiry into my Part_ ==

I am Qazi Muhammad Asad Khan, a former Minister of Higher Education in Pakistan and i served as a member of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa assembly for two terms. I don’t see my Wikipedia page anymore. In fact there was a link earlier which offered it as follows; [[Qazi Muhammad Asad Khan]]. Can you tell me why this article has been deleted? I’m worried since it was relevant to my political career as well as my public service. [[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]] ([[User talk:Qmapk|talk]]) 07:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]]. The placeholder left behind after the article [[Qazi Muhammad Asad Khan]] was deleted states that it was created by a banned or blocked user, in violation of their ban/block. HTH, -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 08:24, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:Click on the link and one reads "Created by a banned or blocked user (Thekhyberboypk) in violation of ban or block". "Uohabacasu" was blocked (i.e. prevented from editing, because of misbehaviour). Instead of appealing persuasively that the block was unjust or unneeded, the person using the name "Uohabacasu" thought "I'll just call myself 'Thekhyberboypk'; that will fool them!" Bad decision. It's called block evasion, and any draft or article created via block evasion is deleted. This deletion says nothing about your integrity or notability. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 08:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::This means the article will not created again ? [[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]] ([[User talk:Qmapk|talk]]) 08:36, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::It does not mean that it will never be created, but it will need to be quite clear that it is not the blocked user or anyone associated with them.  Please know that [[WP:PROUD|an article about yourself is not nececessarily a good thing]].  There are good reasons to not want one.  My advice is that you go on about your life as if you had never heard of Wikipedia. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:43, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]] Note that we have a Project called [[WP:WikiProject Pakistani politics]] and that page lists some of its active members (there are not many). You could enquire via the Project Talk page or via one of the member's talk pages, whether they think you would meet our [[WP:NPOLITICS|notability criteria for politicians]] and, if so, whether they would like to work with you to draft an article about you. See also [[WP:YFA]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:18, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks Mike i have done with this now. [[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]] ([[User talk:Qmapk|talk]]) 11:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Hi @[[User:Qmapk|Qmapk]]! As a former government member, and an elected member of a state parliament in a federal state, you do meet [[WP:NPOL]] and would be presumed notable. In other words, if someone (other than the blocked user) wrote a new article about you from reliable sources, it would certainly be kept. [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 17:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Is there a max for ordered lists in source? ==

I am trying to add myself onto the list of participants for the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Roots music|Roots Music WikiProject]] and followed the formatting in source for ordered lists. The list as is has 39. points and when I add anything below marks it back down as 1. I'm not sure what's happening. Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated! [[User:Seanbhean-chríonna-caite|Seanbhean-chríonna-caite]] ([[User talk:Seanbhean-chríonna-caite|talk]]) 18:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[Special:Diff/1243663772]] seemed to work perfectly fine. Perhaps [[User:Seanbhean-chríonna-caite|you]] added an extra line, creating an entirely new list instead of adding to the existing one? Please see [[WP:LISTGAP]] for details. Thank you, [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 19:20, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! I'll keep an eye out for that in the future, and thank you for the link to the page too! [[User:Seanbhean-chríonna-caite|Seanbhean-chríonna-caite]] ([[User talk:Seanbhean-chríonna-caite|talk]]) 19:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== User:Ignatius_Keeling  vandalizing user pages ==

[[User:Ignatius_Keeling]] seems to be doing the same thing that [[User:Simeon_Mortensen]] did. 

[[Special:Contributions/Ignatius_Keeling]]

"User Simeon Mortensen was vandalizing user pages and has been blocked."

[[Special:Contributions/98.248.161.240|98.248.161.240]] ([[User talk:98.248.161.240|talk]]) 20:33, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:That user has since been blocked, another [[WP:SOCK|sockpuppet]] in a long line of others. Please see their [[User talk:Ignatius Keeling|talk page]]. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 20:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== Editing correcting a page. ==

Regarding [[:Category:Songs written by Sunny Skylar]]

There is an important omission.

The most important song he wrote was "Don't Wait Too Long", which he wrote in 1965.

The song was recoreded by Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, and others.
Can you tell me how to make the update?   Thank you.

Regards, Scraigm55 [[User:Scraigm55|Craig]] ([[User talk:Scraigm55|talk]]) 05:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:The article need to be present on Wikipedia main space first before adding it as a category of songs by the artiste, but the [[Don't Wait Too Long]] song I can see here is by Madeleine Peyroux in 2004. 

Once it's available in the main space, all you need to do is add the category template, Category:Songs written by Sunny Skylar inside a double bracket [[]] and the list will be updated automatically [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 05:46, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Draftifying a redirect ==

Hello there, I was wondering whether I can draftify an article that is currently a redirect, so that I can improve it and subsequently republish it in the mainspace? Thanks in advance, [[User:Mr Sitcom|'''Mr Sitcom''']] ([[User talk:Mr Sitcom|'''talk''']]) 07:33, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Mr Sitcom}}, what you can do is create a draft with the same name as the redirect (except that it's a draft). If you submit it for review and it gets accepted, it'll be the reviewer's job to sort out the redirect. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 08:00, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Mr Sitcom|Mr Sitcom]] You are quite experienced and have created several articles. If you are confident your new article will survive the [[WP:NPP|new pages patrol]], you can simply overwrite the redirect with your new text. See [[WP:RTOA]]. I would advise you to create the bulk of your new text in your sandbox or offline, so that when you copy/paste it into the redirect it already looks fairly complete. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you both for the advice! I will write up the article in my sandbox instead. Cheers! [[User:Mr Sitcom|'''Mr Sitcom''']] ([[User talk:Mr Sitcom|'''talk''']]) 06:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== how do I handle an offensive comment from a Barnstar Editor? ==

how do I handle an offensive comment from a Barnstar Editor? [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 00:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]], can you clarify what you mean? I don't see any recent barnstars on your Talk page, or any barnstar templates in your recent contributions. Do you mean "how do I handle an offensive comment from an editor who has barnstars"? If so, the short answer is "the same way you handle an offensive comment from anyone else". What's the trouble? -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 00:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::>thank you for your reply. Here is the offensive comment:
::https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Slavic_languages&action=history 
::curprev 2024-09-02T20:54:09‎ StephenMacky1 talk contribs‎  70,620 bytes −227‎  Reverted 1 edit by Walter Tau (talk): Do cite sources instead of inserting ''your ignorant opinions'' here. undothank Tags: Twinkle Undo
::curprev 2024-09-02T20:35:47‎ Walter Tau talk contribs‎  70,847 bytes +227‎  →‎Branches: the previous text has some factually incorred statements. Particularly, South Slavic Croatian usee Latin alphabet, while mutually intelligible Serbian uses Cyrillic. Macedonian is nothing , but a dialect of Bulgarian. Also, the paragraph about mutual intelligibility between Slavic languages was factually wrong infor and no references. I fixes the infor and I will add references later. undo Tags: Reverted Disambiguation links added
::>The trouble is that, based on my experience with wikipedia "some pigs are more equal than other pigs". I think, it is pretty clear , that StephenMacky1 violated Wikipedia's Code of Conduct (whatever it is), and I feel like taking it to the next appropriate stage. BTW, my editing is FACTUALLY CORRECT , and the previous text on wikipedia had NO citations. [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 00:37, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Well, I do think it's rude to revert someone's edit and say they have "ignorant opinions", but if you're willing to accept some advice, I'd suggest taking positive actions rather than retributive ones. That is, I think you can probably solve this problem fairly easily simply by reinstating your edit with the appropriate sources, or going to the talk page to discuss (again, with sources). I should warn you that "Macedonian is nothing but a dialect of Bulgarian" is unlikely to be a winning argument, since our article [[Macedonian language]] appears to disagree. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 00:48, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::::thank you for your advice. I understand, that this is a contentious topic, and my Bulgarian friends disagree with their Macedonian cousins. The truth is, that Macedonian and Bulgarian are more mutually intelligible in the spoken forms, than American and British Englishes (I deliberately typed "Englishes"- do not correct me). I will add supporting references from American linguists later. "ignorant opinion" is an offensive comment, especially if the writer did not provide any support for their argument.
::::Note, that the original text did not have any references. [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 01:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Walter Tau}}, if you haven't read them, you might find the articles [[South Slavic languages]] and  [[Eastern South Slavic]] of interest.
:::::I'm English (and a book collector), and agree about 'Englishes': when books are translated into French, for example, they are often described on the Copyright page as being 'from the English' or 'from the American'. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.209.45|94.1.209.45]] ([[User talk:94.1.209.45|talk]]) 07:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== [[JSTOR]] Access ==

Hi, I might be wrong, but I remember Wikipedia gave me access to some libraries and websites like [[JSTOR]] where wikipedians can access research papers. I don't remember what accesses were given, and can't seem to find the message in my inbox or Talk Page archives. Can someone please help me with this? Do we get access to JSTOR? I need to read a paper. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 22:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] I'm fairly certain that [[WP:TWL|The Wikipedia Library]] is what you're looking for. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 22:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, Thanks a lot. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 22:51, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]], you can create a JSTOR account that will let you read 100 articles per month online. Just go to their [https://www.jstor.org/ homepage] and click on "register." [[User:FactOrOpinion|FactOrOpinion]] ([[User talk:FactOrOpinion|talk]]) 00:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Oh yeah. Thanks a tonne. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 08:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== I'm IP blocked and I need to change my password ==

I've been trying to log in with my other devices, but I forgot my password. I can't change it because I'm IP blocked even though I have my email address linked. Is there a way to change it from a device that's already logged in? [[User:BadEditor92|BadEditor92]] ([[User talk:BadEditor92|talk]]) 17:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

:Blocks have no impact on merely logging in. If you have forgotten your password, and the recovery email does not work, or you didn't have one, you may end up needing to create a replacement account. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 17:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
::I have a recovery email, I just don't know how to use it. [[User:BadEditor92|BadEditor92]] ([[User talk:BadEditor92|talk]]) 19:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm not entirely certain how it works as I've not forgotten my password, but it should be providing instructions. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:26, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== What was wikipedia's first article? ==

What was wikipedia's first article? [[Special:Contributions/2601:483:400:1CD0:1541:589A:8F1E:588F|2601:483:400:1CD0:1541:589A:8F1E:588F]] ([[User talk:2601:483:400:1CD0:1541:589A:8F1E:588F|talk]]) 00:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Please see [[History of Wikipedia]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 01:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::Or better yet, [[WP:Oldest articles]], which mentions [[Nupedia]], [[William Alston]], and [[List of female tennis players]] as candidates. --[[User:Slgrandson|Slgrandson]] <small>([[User talk:Slgrandson|How's my]] [[Special:Contributions/Slgrandson|egg-throwing coleslaw?]])</small> 09:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== A Confusion Regarding Multiple Accounts ==

As someone who frequently handles sockpuppet issues across various Wikimedia projects, I've recently noticed that multiple accounts([[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Бмхүн]]) and VPNs have been used in discussions related to [[Talk:Prayagraj_Airport#Requested_move]]. (I state this with certainty because [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/27382490 meta.wikipedia.org] has already confirmed this through a check.)

My confusion is simple and not a complex issue: Are the discussions on [[Talk:Prayagraj_Airport#Requested_move]] still valid under these circumstances? [[User:Rastinition|Rastinition]] ([[User talk:Rastinition|talk]]) 03:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:Multiple !votes are not valid, and vote-stacking is one of the types of deceptive practices that makes socking so disruptive. I added a note to [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Бмхүн]]. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 13:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::I have reviewed the text from the SPI. Thank you for your feedback. [[User:Rastinition|Rastinition]] ([[User talk:Rastinition|talk]]) 10:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Massive issues with BLP ==

The page on [[C. S. Yogananda]] is as far as I can tell completely unsourced and from what the page tells me he’s still alive. How do you nominate a page for deletion? Because based on what I know of Wikipedia policy this page needs to be deleted. [[User:22FatCats|22FatCats]] ([[User talk:22FatCats|talk]]) 09:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[C. S. Yogananda]], just follow the recipe at [[Template:AfD in 3 steps]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 11:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:22FatCats|22FatCats]] There has been some possible vandalism on that page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=C._S._Yogananda&oldid=1220421749 This revision] from 23 April had many more sources. It will take a fair bit of work to sort out what should be done but [[WP:AfD]] is probably not the correct approach. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:48, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::I've restored the article to the state it was in before [[User:BekhruzTursunboev]] took out a large chunk. I'll now work to tidy it up a bit. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:57, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== on rcats, again ==

[[Template:R from title with diacritics|r from title with diacritics]] is normally used for redirects with the ''same title'' (think [[pokemon]] for [[pokémon]]), which is cool and good, but does the presence or absence of the word "the" count as a big enough difference to warrant not including it (like [[The Pokemon Center|the pokemon center]], which i was just about to retarget to [[Pokémon Center|pokémon center]])? '''[[user:cogsan|<span style="color:#177013">cogsan</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:cogsan|<span style="color:#265918">(nag me)</span>]] [[special:contributions/cogsan|<span style="color:#265918">(stalk me)</span>]]</sub>''' 12:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:It would be incorrect regardless, since the link you're about to retarget doesn't have a diacritic in it. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 13:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Welcome to Teahouse! @[[User:Cogsan|Cogsan]] you can use {{tl|Redirect category shell}} to include multiple RCAT templates namely {{tl|r from title with diacritics}} and {{tl|r from alternative name}} in this case. In some cases, like [[The New York Times]] it is warranted, but in case of [[the pokemon center]] I'd remove the from linked examples ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 13:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Reliable source ==

Hello there! Quick question, is [https://www.last.fm last.fm] considered to be a reliable source? Thanks in advance - <span style="font-family: Old English; background-color: silver; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">[[User:FENFEN|<span style="color: darkred">'''feni'''</span>]] [[User talk:FENFEN|<span style="color: darkred">''' (tellmehi) '''</span>]]</span> 09:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:Greetings from an occasional fellow scrobblite. [[Last.fm|LFM]] is primarily a music-tracking service, and also contains user-generated bios. That said, it doesn't meet the [[WP:RS]] requirements. --[[User:Slgrandson|Slgrandson]] <small>([[User talk:Slgrandson|How's my]] [[Special:Contributions/Slgrandson|egg-throwing coleslaw?]])</small> 09:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:FENFEN|FENFEN]] pretty much agreed with @[[User:Slgrandson|Slgrandson]] but if there's a subject-expert who has a recording, for example a Professor/journalist of the relevant topic, you could use it per the exceptions outlined in [[WP:SPS]] (self published sources). Other sourcing is preferable ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 13:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Criação de uma página sobre mim como sendo compositor  ==

{{lang|pt-BR|italic=no|
Estou criando uma página sobre mim Guilherme de Souza Camillo 
[[Guilherme de Souza Camillo]]

Sabendo que as políticas do Wikipedia não permitem autobiografia 

Mas te pergunto o que pode ser feito no meu caso

Inclusive já tive problemas de vandalismo e o IP bloqueado 

Não sou nenhum vândalo}} [[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]] ([[User talk:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|talk]]) 17:55, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, Guilherme. If you know that Wikipedia's policies do not encourage Autobiography, why are you trying to do it, and in a language you apparently don't speak? 
:[[WP:Autobiography|Autobiography]] is very strongly discouraged because it almost never works: most people are not capable of writing a neutral article about themselves. 
:''If'' you meet Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:NMUSIC|notability]], then somebody could write an article about you - but they will not be writing it for you, they will be writing it for Wikipedia. If you do not meet those criteria, then no article about you is possible, whoever wrote it. 
:I very strongly advise you to give up this idea, and spend your time and your energy on something which is more likely to be successful: either editing Wikipedia on subjects unconnected with you (and probably on Portuguese Wikipedia, not English) or work on your career somewhere other than Wikipedia. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

=== {{lang|pt-BR|Alguém se prontifica}}  ===

{{lang|pt-BR|italic=no|
alguém teria a vontade de criar um artigo sobre mim

Meu nome é: Guilherme de Souza Camillo 

Um novato compositor 

De Araraquara/SP

Estou começando agora

Mais o que não entendo
Mesmo se outra pessoa mesmo do Wikipedia a questão de fazer um artigo sobre mim não seria a mesma coisa a realização de uma}} [[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]] ([[User talk:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|talk]]) 19:24, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]] Welcome to the Teahouse. Because this is English Wikipedia, we expect everyone to communicate in English.  According to Google Translate, you asked (in Portuguese) {{tq|"Would anyone be willing to create an article about me? My name is: Guilherme de Souza Camillo. A novice composer...I'm just starting out..."}}
:Please be advised that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia of [[WP:N|NOTABLE THINGS]]. Has the world taken notice of you yet? Has mainstream media written about you in detail and in depth? Have you won major awards or had a chart success? You post here suggests that you have not. 
:So, if the answer is 'no', then the time is not right for there to be a page about your life or your achievements. Please use other social media platforms or websites to promote yourself. Once you become famous and are written about by mainstream media, or have musical success, then someone will surely want to create a page about you. Our criteria of notability for musicians can be found at [[WP:NMUSIC]], and for people in general, at [[WP:NBIO]]. But even if you do become 'notable' and merit a page in this encyclopaedia, it would not be ''your'' page, and you would have no control over it. Everything in it would have to be based upon what published, independent sources have written about you. I regret to suggest that it is simply, [[WP:TOOSOON|TOOSOON]]. Regards, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 19:49, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

::({{ec}}, more or less, with above comment saying mostly the same things) Well, first of all, please note that this is the English-language Wikipedia, most of us do not read or understand Brazilian Portuguese, I had to use Google translate just to determine what your question is. The short answer is that all article subjects have to be demonstrably [[WP:N|notable]] as indicated by them ''already''being the subject of [[WP:SIGCOV|significant coverage]] in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. So, as someone just starting out, that probably isn't you. 
::(machine translation)
::Bem, antes de tudo, observe que esta é a Wikipédia em inglês, a maioria de nós não lê ou entende português brasileiro, tive que usar o Google tradutor apenas para determinar qual é sua pergunta. A resposta curta é que todos os assuntos de artigos devem ser demonstravelmente notáveis como indicado por eles ''já''sendo o assunto de cobertura significativa em fontes confiáveis. Então, como alguém que está começando, provavelmente não é você. [[User:Just Step Sideways|Just Step Sideways]] [[User talk:Just Step Sideways|<sup>from this world ..... today</sup>]] 19:49, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

=== Problemas na minha página  ===

Fui bloqueado por ip eu já mandei para o e-mail unblock-ptwiki@wikimedia.org e nada

continuo bloqueado

Guilherme de Souza Camillo

Pra mim este wikipedia é perda de tempo [[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]] ([[User talk:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|talk]]) 12:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]]
:Olá, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, [[Wikipedia:Welcoming_committee/Welcome_to_Wikipedia|bem-vindo(a) à Wikipédia]]! Apesar de esforços para melhorar a Wikipédia serem sempre bem recebidos, infelizmente suas contribuições não foram escritas em um nível de inglês bom o suficiente para ser útil. Você parece ser mais familiarizado com o Português; sabia que existe uma [[:pt:|Wikipédia em português]]? Talvez você prefira contribuir lá em vez de aqui. De qualquer forma, bem-vindo(a) ao projeto e obrigado(a) por seus esforços! Se precisar de ajuda, por favor, sinta-se livre para me comunicar em minha página de discussão. <!--Template:welcome-foreign--> ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 13:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024|Guilherme de Souza Camillo.2024]] Na Wikipédia em inglês, não podemos ajudá-lo mais, desculpe. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 13:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::This user appears to be blocked indef on pt.wiki, which is perhaps what they're trying in some way to resolve here? -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 14:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Editing  ==

I heard I can get help editing here. My article won't get accepted. [[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]] ([[User talk:Kudzuboss123|talk]]) 14:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]] Currently [[Draft:Nightshift at Barry's|the article]] has no sources. This is a major issue, without any sources it will never be accepted. Additionally, upon searching for some sources for you I couldn't find any. Due to that, I'd advise that you put that article on the backburner for now until it has some sources, instead doing some [[WP:TASKS|tasks]] to build up your experience on Wikipedia. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 14:25, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:Hi @[[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]], welcome to the Teahouse. Please stop resubmitting the draft; without reliable sources, it will not be accepted, and if you persist it may eventually be rejected, which is the end of the line. Also, you seem to have a conflict of interest here - please read [[WP:COI]]. [[Special:Contributions/57.140.16.35|57.140.16.35]] ([[User talk:57.140.16.35|talk]]) 14:27, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]]. After looking over [[Draft: Nightshift at Barry's]] I thought it might be helpful for you to study [[Help:Referencing for beginners]] and [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources]]. Encyclopedia articles are not posted in order promote anything, articles inform people about what reliable references, not connected to the article subject, have to say about the article subject. Also “Officially written by Kudzuboss 123 himself” is not appropriate. If you look at other Wikipedia articles you will see that the writer never gets a byline. Articles are written anonymously, and others are free to come along later and make any edits that improve the article. Best wishes on your future Wikipedia projects. [[User:Karenthewriter|Karenthewriter]] ([[User talk:Karenthewriter|talk]]) 16:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks so if I remove it will it get approved? [[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]] ([[User talk:Kudzuboss123|talk]]) 22:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:When Kudzuboss123 himself has written the article, that proves that the article is worthless. Everyone knows he is going to lie to make himself look good.
:To be a good article, we have to prove that it DOESN'T come from Kudzuboss123. We need to be able to show that all the words in the article come from people who don't know him and are not his friends or employees. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 17:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::Ok thanks, I understand. Do you think that would fix it and get it approved? [[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]] ([[User talk:Kudzuboss123|talk]]) 22:01, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I doubt it. I think you should give up on it, unless you can write it forward instead of backward. Read [[WP:BACKWARD]] (really, read it), you went about it all wrong. You should start over from scratch, finding reliable sources that are independent of you ''first'' before you write even a single word. See [[WP:Golden Rule]] (and memorize the three criteria) for the sources required. Every sentence you write must be verifiable in a reliable source. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 00:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::If no one has published about the game then there is no possible path to success. If you agree, put DB-author inside double curly brackets {{  }} at the top of the draft. This will be a request for an Administrator to delete the draft. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:22, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks! [[User:Kudzuboss123|Kudzuboss123]] ([[User talk:Kudzuboss123|talk]]) 14:09, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help me fix the coordinate ==

On [[Remo Stars Stadium|this article]], I am finding it difficult to perfectly fix the coordinate I got from Google maps using the minutes and seconds method. I would like an editor to fix the situation and then explain to me how the minutes and seconds method is used (which I don't understand) when the coordinates exceeds 60 seconds.
<span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 14:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: The coordinates I got from Google maps is 6.8650426°N, 3.7036977°E, Thanks.
<span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 14:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Josedimaria237|Josedimaria237]] It looks as though you have found the [[decimal degrees]] values. These need to be converted into degrees, minutes and seconds to work with the template {{tl|coord}}. The article explains how to convert one to the other. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::.... or as the template page explains, you can make it format correctly using decimal degrees. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I made the change [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Remo_Stars_Stadium&diff=1243803003&oldid=1243796528 with this edit]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:42, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article ==

I am not great with my English. Also, this is my first time trying to create an article and I don't know how or where to start. [[User:DiarrhoeaDemon|DiarrhoeaDemon]] ([[User talk:DiarrhoeaDemon|talk]]) 16:46, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:OP is blocked. Anyone who shares OP's question should read [[WP:FIRST]]. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 16:51, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::Blocked for need to change name or abandon this account and start another. Has created [[Draft:Lusei]], Declined. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 18:01, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Proposing changes to an article ==

What is the best way to go about this?
Rather than editing the page directly, is there any way to propose changes before an edit is made? 
Preferably to have them vetted by some higher-ranking user
[[User:Pruning0252|Pruning0252]] ([[User talk:Pruning0252|talk]]) 17:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Pruning0252|Pruning0252]], you can use [[Template:Edit request]]. But if you use this on a page that you ''can'' edit, you'll probably just be declined and told to make the edit yourself. If you think your edit is particularly contentious and might need some prior discussion, the first place to try is the article's Talk page. If you're just nervous about doing something wrong in general and not for some specific reason - be [[WP:BOLD]]! You can always come back here and ask a Teahouse host to have a look at your edit, if you're really unsure. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 18:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article heading assessment  ==

Hey I really need a kind of quick acknowledgment to suggest me a perfect heading attributing the genuine name I can real determine framed in the article conventing the meaning to refine the historical approach towards the topic of '''Rathi Jats''' Clan but the plot twist it also contain the objective to cover the subtopic of [[Khap|Khap system]] “{{Font|bgcolor=Neon|color=Green|text=<b>a prejudice body exist in HelpJat dynamic in the conservative society “</b>}} So which can be the most appropriate tittle suit in this complex case please help me to sort this out [[User:भारतसरकार-विभाग|भारतसरकार-विभाग]] ([[User talk:भारतसरकार-विभाग|talk]]) 15:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:In my personal remarking I found conjunction such as [[Rathi Khap of Jats (lineage)]] and [[Rathi-lineage of Jat community]]  but i don't get any accumulated outcomes so far [[User:भारतसरकार-विभाग|भारतसरकार-विभाग]] ([[User talk:भारतसरकार-विभाग|talk]]) 15:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, Bharatasrakar-Vibhag, and welcome to the Teahouse. I can only vaguely understand what you are asking, and I'm not sure which article you are talking about. But whichever article it is, the best place to discuss its name is on its talk page, and try and get consensus. If the editors involved in the discussion are unable to reach consensus, then [[WP:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] gives ways to proceed. 
:You may also want to put a note at  [[WT:WikiProject India]] inviting people to join the discussion you start on the talk page. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:53, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Draft Declined ==
I completed significant edits to [[Draft:Microsoft Azure Quantum]] with feedback from the live chat and reviewers.
Is there anything else that should be fixed before submitting the draft for review?
Thank you!  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:CBathka|CBathka]] ([[User talk:CBathka#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CBathka|contribs]]) 20:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The best way to get feedback is to resubmit it. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 20:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Dummy edits to user talk page ==

I just noticed that an editor has been making [[WP:Dummy edits]] (but without any edit summaries) to a user talk page where he previously posted a warning message. He's been doing this on an irregular basis for eight months (sometimes over a month goes by without him doing it, sometimes he does a half dozen in a single day), but he's accumulated well over 50 such edits to this user talk page. I can't recall seeing anything like this in my more than 15 years editing Wikipedia. Anyone have any idea what he's doing? [[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 13:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:If it's a new user, could be inflating their edit count, to game some sort of extended confirmed or other status?
:Annoying the page owner by notification-bombing them?
:Some sort of bot or similar automated tool malfunctioning?
:I'm out. -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 14:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] Welcome to the Teahouse. Would you care to link to either a diff or the talk page in question. One other potential explanation is that I occasionally give my permission for another editor to leave me test warning messages or make other edits to my talk page as part of my attempt to help them learn or test out what they're doing. Maybe they're doing the same? You might like to look at how the recipient reacts to these minor edits as that could be key. Or you could ask one  of them directly what's going on. Without knowing who or what page you've been looking at, we can't comment further, or take any action. Regards, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 15:59, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::I prefer not to say anything that might identify specific editors when making an inquiry; I've done that before and it tends to blow up in my face, often with admins threatening to block me under the premise that asking about an editor's behavior is the same as accusing them. The recipient is largely inactive, having made less than 20 edits since this started, none with any apparent relevance to his talk page activity. If I'm feeling brave I might ask the posting editor about it. Thanks for the replies. [[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 18:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] sometimes these are signs of a [[WP:Sleeper account]] or [[WP:Gaming the system]]. Worth keeping an eye on it longer term. Such edits would remain visible if they do disruptive edits. At the same time, if it's not doing anything harmful or disrupting anything outside their own user pages, leave them alone? ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::::It sounds like they're making edits to ''someone else's'' user talk page, though? Which sounds annoying at the least, harassing at the worst. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 01:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, it's to someone else's user talk page. Sorry, I didn't realize until now that I hadn't made that perfectly clear in my initial post. [[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 22:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Request for review  of my Draft ==

I created a draft called [[Draft:Siege of Madrid (1197)]] and i would like to see some comments to improve  the page or even turn it to an article! [[User:Yaqub al-Mansur|Yaqub al-Mansur]] ([[User talk:Yaqub al-Mansur|talk]]) 14:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:You have submitted it for review, which may take place days, weeks, or sadly, months from now. The backlog is not a queue. You can continue to work on the draft while awaiting a response. If Declined, the reviewer will state reasons. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 15:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::Hello [[User:Yaqub al-Mansur|Yaqub al-Mansur]]. I am not a reviewer, but I looked at your draft article and thought it was a good start, but it is only six sentences long. While you're waiting for the draft to be reviewed you are able to do additional work, and you may want to go over your references once again and see if you can add some more details to your draft about the Siege of Madrid. Best wishes on getting your draft article approved. [[User:Karenthewriter|Karenthewriter]] ([[User talk:Karenthewriter|talk]]) 02:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|Yaqub al-Mansur}}, I find it interesting that this siege is not mentioned at [[Madrid]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] The siege indeed happened <ref>{{Cite book |last=Buresi |first=Pascal |url=https://books.google.co.ma/books?id=yKMslB96C48C&pg=PA318&dq=madrid+1197+siege&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi785vnzKKIAxXKhf0HHXU2HpcQ6AF6BAgHEAM#v=onepage&q=madrid%201197%20siege&f=false|date=2004 |publisher=Publibook |title=La frontière entre chrétienté et Islam dans la pénisule Ibérique |language=fr}}</ref> [[User:Yaqub al-Mansur|Yaqub al-Mansur]] ([[User talk:Yaqub al-Mansur|talk]]) 21:16, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Yaqub al-Mansur}}, I am not questioning that the siege happened. I was just curious about why it isn't mentioned in the history section of [[Madrid]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 21:33, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the compliment! And i will always make sure to find more details about the siege. [[User:Yaqub al-Mansur|Yaqub al-Mansur]] ([[User talk:Yaqub al-Mansur|talk]]) 21:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
{{talk-reflist}}
FYI – [[User:Yaqub al-Mansur|Yaqub al-Mansur]] is a suspected sock puppet, and has been blocked. [[User:Karenthewriter|Karenthewriter]] ([[User talk:Karenthewriter|talk]]) 04:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Remove citations ==

How can I remove citations from my page? [[User:Bethg1996|Bethg1996]] ([[User talk:Bethg1996|talk]]) 16:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Bethg1996|Bethg1996]] What page would that be? Citations are important around here, but context matters? [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 16:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Presumably [[Draft:Adam Bierman]], where the OP made their only other edit. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Then [[WP:TUTORIAL]] may be of help. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 06:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Fix article I cant ==

Please I am trying to fix an article but instead it look even more worse someone help and fix [[Umaru Musa Yar'Adua]] article infobox problem[[User:OneLastTruth|OneLastTruth]] ([[User talk:OneLastTruth|talk]]) 07:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:OneLastTruth|OneLastTruth]]: done. There was only a single closing square bracket in one of the wikilinks. -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 08:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Why can I not view the revision history of some articles? ==

The article [[Michael Middleton]], for example in the revision history, if you go to protection log, and click on revisions history, it shows the date (10 March 2024), crosed out, and I cannot click on '''Prev''' (which means previous) but in other articles like [[Caillou]] I can. Why is this? Why is it crossed out like that? [[Special:Contributions/142.114.181.79|142.114.181.79]] ([[User talk:142.114.181.79|talk]]) 04:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:They're deleted revisions. [[WP:ADMIN|Administrators]] have the ability to [[WP:REVDEL|delete revisions]] from the page history. They usually contain vandalism and so on. The deletion log for the page often has a record of the deletion. -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 04:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Just going to add that revisions tend to only be revdeleted due to serious policy violations such a [[:WP:COPYVIO]] and [[:WP:BLPREMOVE]]. There's still a record of such edits kept for Wikipedia licensing purposes, but leaving them publicly viewable is potentially more of a problem than it's worth and could bring the project into disrepute. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::In this case, a vandal had added a false death date to Michael Middleton, the father of Catherine, the Princess of Wales. Middleton is still alive. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 08:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Editing help and advice ==

Hello Wikipedians. I gather this is where I can get help and advice on text and logistics. My first Wikipedia contribution was to update the page for David Cappo AO at [[David Cappo]]. The previous version had no information about his activities since 2012 so I provided them. However the entry has been flagged as having text written in a "promotional tone" and an Wikipedia editor also told me it was "problematic" that I had referenced an organistion's website. I think I know what the offending words are, and have developed a second draft, but clearly I can't just make the changes myself, and certainly can't delete the flag, without input from others. So I'm hoping someone can tell me what would make the entry acceptable to Wikipedia standards and how I would then be able to get the flag removed. And by whom. The new information is pretty straight forward and I would have thought non controversial, so I'm assuming its just the odd word or sentence. Thanks in advance. Nick2103 [[User:Nick2103|Nick2103]] ([[User talk:Nick2103|talk]]) 08:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

: {{Ping|Nick2103}} I can see no obvious issues with the article, so I have removed the {{Tl|Promo}} tag. Another editor left a generic message on your talk page which talks about things that ''may'' be wrong with your edit, but has not replied to your follow-up there. They may not have seen it, so I have just "[[WP:PING|pinged]]" them (as I pinged you here) to draw their attention. It would be useful if you could confirm whether or not you have any connection to David Cappo, so we know whether our COI policy applies, and can advise you accordingly. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 08:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks Andy. I'm new to all of this. I know of David's past work as I live in Adelaide and a friend of his told me what he is doing now. He wondered how that could be added to his Wikipedia page so I said I would give it a go. Is that a conflict? The only new information is that he co-founded a new organisation in 2016, now lives jointly in Kampala and Adelaide, and no longer has an affiliation with one university but does with another. [[User:Nick2103|Nick2103]] ([[User talk:Nick2103|talk]]) 09:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::It might be a conflict, but perhaps more relevantly that information isn't from a [[WP:Reliable source]]. Speaking of sources, what is the reason you removed the source from the sentence "Cappo was born in [[Adelaide]] and educated at St Joseph's Primary School at Kingswood and at [[Rostrevor College]]"? It's not clear from the edit summary. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 09:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I will wait to see what is decided re conflict. Andy did not seem to have a problem with the source but maybe others will. As I said, this is my first time. The source you mention is at the end of the next sentence. It seemed more relevant to that early work that to his actual schooling. Thanks for the feedback. [[User:Nick2103|Nick2103]] ([[User talk:Nick2103|talk]]) 09:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Reg: Maharaja Ranjit Singh's information ==

Dear Moderator,
The page containing information on Maharaja Ranjit Singh need some serious edits as the present one is devoid of its merits as per the history. I need to contact the editor of this page.
Warm Regards
Sandeep Singh Sukherchakia [[User:Kanwar sandeep|Kanwar sandeep]] ([[User talk:Kanwar sandeep|talk]]) 10:42, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[User:Kanwar sandeep|Kanwar sandeep]], I'm not quite sure which article you're asking about. If the article is titled ''XYZ'', then write your message at the foot of Talk:''XYZ''; so if it's [[Ranjit Singh]], then write it at the foot of [[Talk:Ranjit Singh]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 11:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Kanwar sandeep|Kanwar sandeep]] I see that you have now posted your concerns at the Talk Page of the article. However, you have not provided [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] for the details which you say are wrong. All Wikipedia articles are based on [[WP:CITE|citing]] information already published elsewhere, so readers can [[WP:V|verify]] what is said. Please provide your sources on the Talk Page or you are likely to be ignored there. Note that Wikipedia does not have content Moderators. All content is based on [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]]. That particular article has had contributions from many editors and currently has over 200 people who [[WP:WATCHLIST|watch it]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::The reliable sources for Sikh history particularly on my family is umdut-ut-Twarikh which is know as durbar book by Lala Sohan Lal suri which are based on Roznamcha. According to Umdat-ut-Twarikh at page No.56 the date of birth of Maharaja Khadak Singh should be 24th Feb, 1800 (as per english calander). Secondly, in the info under "Issue" section the names should be in the following sequence Maharaja Khadak Singh, Kanwar Rattan Singh, Kanwar Fateh Singh, Maharaja Sher Singh, Maharaja Duleep Singh in precise, but 2 names are missing. These two names along with the other names reflects in the family section below. My contention is that I am the direct living descendant of 8th generation of Maharaja Ranjit Singh I myself is an source of information and can provide you with the correct information.
::In the "Early years" section It says '' Ranjit singh was born in a sandhawalia Jat Sikh family in Gujranwala'' Which is completely wrong and baseless because Maharaja was born in Badrukha in Sangrur district of Punjab and he was a SURYAVANSHI RAJPOOTRA of Kashyap Gotra which can be proved from the symbol of SUN decorated on his SAMADH which can be verified from many pictures in the internet and also can be witnessed by visiting that place. Maharaja Ranjit singh married one Laxmi Sandhawalia in his lifetime which means his wife Laxmi Sandhawalia was born in a Sandhawalia Jat Sikh family and not vice-a-versa.
::Thanks & Regards,
::"corrections sought for WIKIPEDIA page on Maharaja Ranjit Singh [[User:Kanwar sandeep|Kanwar sandeep]] ([[User talk:Kanwar sandeep|talk]]) 10:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Challenging  ==

Talks about Gene's interested [[User:Jweighed1|Jweighed1]] ([[User talk:Jweighed1|talk]]) 11:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Jweighed1|Jweighed1]] Almost all your contributions so far have been [[WP:REVERT|reverted]] and I have just [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWhat_Wikipedia_is_not&diff=1243977544&oldid=1243969462 reverted one] you made to a policy page. If you continue to disrupt the encyclopaedia in this way you are likely to be blocked. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article ==

Can someone please tell me how to start the introduction in an article? [[User:YourWorstNightmareDemon|YourWorstNightmareDemon]] ([[User talk:YourWorstNightmareDemon|talk]]) 14:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[MOS:LEAD]] goes into great detail about how to write the lead section of an article. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 14:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hi! The article lead (the first few paragraphs before the sections) are usually a summary of the article's key points. It is not the easiest part to write, and the trick is to actually write it last once you have the rest of the article already done – you just have to summarize it! Ideally, the first sentence should tell what the subject is, followed by what makes it notable if it isn't immediately obvious. The rest of the lead can summarize the article, for instance chronologically (if it is a biography or a historical event) or by aspects of the topic. [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 14:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Dead link ==

When editing an article with a reference that has a dead link, is it best to remove it? [[User:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|LeónGonsalvesofGoa]] ([[User talk:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|talk]]) 16:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|LeónGonsalvesofGoa]] No, please don't. There is good advice on options at [[WP:LINKROT]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 16:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{reply-to|Michael D. Turnbull}}While I realize that you have provided the (general) canonical answer, IMO, it's really not going to be much help.  The first part the reader comes across is "preventing link rot".  In the given use case, this is completely irrelevant.  So if somebody figures that much out, they then move on to usurpations.  This goes on to an explanation of usurped domains, which in the situation that is explained, is a comparatively infrequent occurrence.  Additionally, it's really extraneous to the issue of repairing a dead link. By this time, we'll have likely lost all but the most persistent of those editors who went to "LINKROT".
::IMO, better to just state that some automated process may come along and fix it or perhaps some other editor will fix it. Good directions for recovering a link using archive are just plain complicated, and while many times these links can be fixed without too much difficulty, the ''general solution'' is beyond the scope of what (to the best of my knowledge) we explain anywhere in "LINKROT". [[User:Fabrickator|Fabrickator]] ([[User talk:Fabrickator|talk]]) 17:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Fabrickator|Fabrickator]] All that is true. I give that sort of quick answer because my just saying "No, please don't" to the question asked would be terse to the point of incivility. That is, however, what the "Nutshell" part of the Linkrot how-to guide advises. If the OP had asked a more specific question (e.g. by giving the article name), then I would have tried to give a more customised answer. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 08:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Fabrickator|Fabrickator]] @[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] For context, please take a look at Reference 11 ([[2024 Bangladesh anti-Hindu violence]]).  [[User:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|LeónGonsalvesofGoa]] ([[User talk:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|talk]]) 14:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:LeónGonsalvesofGoa|LeónGonsalvesofGoa]] That one's easy. It's at the [[Internet Archive]] at [https://web.archive.org/web/20240806033658/http://kalbela.com/ajkerpatrika/lastpage/109268 this URL]. You can readily add that into the article: see {{tl|cite web}} for the parameters to use, including <code>|archive-url=</code> Note that I don't speak [[Bengali language|Bengali]]  so I can't confirm that the citation supports what our article says. I don't know why the bot couldn't fix this, since it is supposed to look at that archive. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[WP:DEADREF]] may be of help. [[User:LizardJr8|LizardJr8]] ([[User talk:LizardJr8|talk]]) 22:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== Can I use screenshots I took to improve an article? ==

I have been doing some work on the article for the game [[Redout (video game)|Redout]], and I want to add an image for the gameplay section showing off the UI and look of the game. I can't find any images that I can legally use, so is it ok for me to use a screenshot I took that shows off those elements, or does that fall under original research or self published resources? I own a copy of the game, so there shouldn't be any legal issues. [[User:ApteryxRainWing|ApteryxRainWing]] ([[User talk:ApteryxRainWing|talk]]) 12:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:I recommend you read the entirety of [[Wikipedia:Software screenshots]]. Redout is still copyrighted software (even if you own a license to play it), so you must be prudent with it. This doesn't fall under [[WP:OR|original research]] or self published resources, but make sure the gameplay section itself isn't original research. <span style="background:#88f8f8; border-radius:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px; padding:2px 5px">[[User:Win8x|win8x]] ([[User talk:Win8x|talking]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Win8x|spying]])</span> 12:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:ApteryxRainWing|ApteryxRainWing]] While you are working on the article, you might like to fix the duplicated references #4 and #8, using [[WP:NAMED|named refs]] and remove the tag someone placed at the top. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Question about citing sources ==

So I haven't done much yet because I have a small question about whether or not the rule of common knowledge applies to Wikipedia, and if so to the extent it goes to. I've tried adding things that I didn't know what to source with because it seemed like community knowledge, but it seems that those have been removed so I guess I don't quite understand it. Thank you in advance [[User:TheGoofyGobo|TheGoofyGobo]] ([[User talk:TheGoofyGobo|talk]]) 15:18, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, [[User:TheGoofyGobo|TheGoofyGobo]], welcome to the Teahouse! Generally speaking, "common knowledge" isn't a thing on Wikipedia. One of Wikipedia's fundamental principles is [[WP:V|verifiability]], which means that every statement in a Wikipedia article must be able to be verified by a reference to a reliable source. That doesn't necessarily mean that every statement needs an explicit citation attached to it, and whether to put one in or not can be subject to editorial judgment, but the rule of thumb is: if someone were to challenge it or remove it, you would need to be able to add that citation to address their concerns; if that's not something you'd be able to do on challenge, then you probably shouldn't put it in the article to begin with. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 15:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:TheGoofyGobo|TheGoofyGobo]] One of Wikipedia's policies is that readers must be able to [[WP:V|verify]] what articles say. Since our readership is very wide, we can't assume much "community knowledge". There is an essay about [[WP:SKYISBLUE]] (much weaker than a policy) that suggests some things are so obvious they don't need to be cited but that's risky and if you are [[WP:REVERT|reverted]], the policy is always to provide a citation. [[WP:BLP|Biographies of living people]] require particular care in their citations. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Biography article models ==

Hi and apologies in advance if this has already been asked, but I couldn't find it in the search (possibly I'm using the wrong terminology).

I am a very occasional contributor. I was trying to create a first article and wondered if there were any discussions or agreement on model biography articles that I could follow (particularly short ones). 

Which ones do more experienced Wikipedians think are best practice? I've looked at a lot, long and short and they all seem to have different styles and headings of where they put author's works, articles, podcasts, videos etc. I have seen some discussion and general rules, which are useful, but are there any articles that are considered models by most? 

For example, I was not sure where to put book review references- it seemed natural to use as a reference for an author's book, but they were all edited out, where should they go?

Thanks in advance for your help.  [[User:ITellComputerYes|ITellComputerYes]] ([[User talk:ITellComputerYes|talk]]) 14:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:ITellComputerYes|ITellComputerYes]] Welcome to the Teahouse. We have a manual of style with general guidance for biographies: see [[MOS:BLP]]. If your subject is alive, then it is important to also read the policy at [[WP:BLP]], in particular the bit about inline citations. In general, you should use [[WP:GA|articles rated good]] or [[WP:FA|featured]] as models but these are unlikely to be short ones. Note that your main task is to show how the person is [[WP:NBIO|wikinotable]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::Many thanks @[[User:Mike Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]], that's really helpful. Makes me think I should have chosen a different / better  new article (everything else on my list already had a page, but maybe that means I just need a better list). Also, that I should have asked more questions. Thanks again.  [[User:ITellComputerYes|ITellComputerYes]] ([[User talk:ITellComputerYes|talk]]) 15:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Mike Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]]And with regards to reliable sources and notability, I suppose I was mistaking book reviews for notability and citing them, when references needs to independent discussion of the person's life and work to pass the notability test.  [[User:ITellComputerYes|ITellComputerYes]] ([[User talk:ITellComputerYes|talk]]) 15:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:ITellComputerYes|ITellComputerYes]] The specific notability guidance is at [[WP:AUTHOR]]. Sometimes, for a well-received book, that can meet [[WP:NBOOK]] while the author themselves doesn't have quite enough coverage. Book reviews (other than ones printed on the back of the book itself) may be detailed and match all the criteria [[WP:42|in the golden rules for notability sources]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 17:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Mentor ==

Hey all so I think I’m losing my mentor. Would I be able to request for one through here. Not sure if this is the place for this. Thank you. [[User:T24boo|T24boo]] 17:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:T24boo|T24boo]] I'm a mentor and I believe I can "claim" you, which I'll do in a moment. {{Done}} Meanwhile, feel free to ask any questions on my Talk Page (or here where others will chip in). [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 17:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== a question possibly already answered ==

hi again, if I were to make an article about let's say, pizza. Does the history of the origins of that food need to be added? [=T [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero \&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 17:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:Yes, you can add a bit of the origin to give insight about the particular topic of dicuss. However, make sure there are notable references to back your claim up[[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 17:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::ok, does it depend on how the claim is worded? or not, because I feel like if I word it differently then I;m gonna have to modify it [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero \&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 18:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Probably best to base what you write on what the sources say (without [[wp:close paraphrasing|close paraphrasing]]). [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 18:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::ok, thanks [=) [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero \&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 18:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I agree with @[[User:Chaotic Enby|Chaotic Enby]] [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 18:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Nothing is truly necessary to add (if your article has enough sources to meet the [[Wikipedia:General notability guideline]], even a short article is okay), but it's always a positive if you can write more about it! [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 17:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:I believe [[Help:Your first article]] will have the answer. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Jude marrero}}, well written articles about culinary dishes and beverages usually summarize what reliable sources say about their origins. But there are often disputes about food and drink origins, so you need to present all sides of the story proportionally. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Would it be apropiate to make a article about this? ==

I am talking about this video;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4-csEm16Og I want to make a article for it. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]]: Is this specific video discussed in multiple news articles published by reputable newspapers, or covered by some other publication that meets [[WP:RS]]? If not, then no, it's not appropriate to make an article for it. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::I will get an article I remember about suicide prevention. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, individual videos are rarely notable, but if it has been discussed multiple times in, say, news media, you could write something based on this coverage. (Self-published sources like blogs or other YouTube videos don't count for notability coverage) [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::How many times should it have been mentioned? [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Usually, [[WP:THREE|three is good]], provided each is in-depth enough to write some of the article based on it. [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 18:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::.Thank you. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Flags of Finnish municipalities ==

A lot of pages for significant Finnish municipalities show flags that are just edited versions of the coat of arms. This is despite the fact that these don't tend to be official. Could someone look into this? [[User:KurkkuStadist|KurkkuStadist]] ([[User talk:KurkkuStadist|talk]]) 18:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|KurkkuStadist}}, since you say you are from Helsinki, then I think that ''you'' are the best person to look into this. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Sandy hook weapons seem to not have category ==

I think the sandy hook page should have it's own weapon category with links to the weapons articles. Like on the columbine high school shooting article it has this category. Thank you! [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Note to resonder, this user is most likely talking about the [[Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting]] in 2012, and the [[Columbine High School massacre]] in 1999. [[User:Sir MemeGod|'''Sir MemeGod :D''']] <small>([[User talk:Sir MemeGod|talk]] - [[Special:Contribs/Sir MemeGod|contribs]] - [[User:Sir MemeGod/Creations|created articles]])</small> 17:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::Correct. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:I will also want to include to the edit the 2 links: [[Bushmaster XM-15]]  and [[Saiga-12]] [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::From all the sources I could gather it seems it would be appropiate. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Why am I ceasing my donations to Wikipedia effective today? ==

{{collapse top|title=tl;dr: How dare you ask me to cite my edits?}}
I have been a monetary and article/comments/changes contributor for many years.  Never has Wikipedia found any of my proposed entries to be false or inaccurate.  You have arbitrarily decided that I lack credibility.  Your holy grail is the ability of a contributor to provide citations/references.  This I believe is naive and erroneous.  Rather consider the history/credibility of the proposed editor.  Just because someone has a reference or footnote doesn't make the proposed change true or accurate.  I could cite Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf to support a basis for the hatred of the Jewish people.  Would that make the change proposed accurate?  Obviously not.  You need to distinguish critical/negative posts from generic/harmless posts.  When I tell you I have seen a movie ten times and propose a change based on that you should not get high and mighty on me.  The process of making changes is ridiculously not user friendly and I will have none of it, hence no more money for you.  Don't get me wrong, I will endeavor to use Wikipedia as a reference, yet I could make a career of pointing out items you have omitted. See my post on the television performance in 1962 by Lon Chaney Jr. for instance. [[User:PatBrennan|PatBrennan]] ([[User talk:PatBrennan|talk]]) 18:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{u|PatBrennan}} This is a place for new users to ask questions about using Wikipedia, not a place to air grievances with Wikipedia. 
:Note that donations go to the Wikimedia Foundation, to operate the computers Wikipedia is on and other Foundation activities.  Us editors do not see the money, and donating or withholding donations has no impact on content or editing practices. Of course, you may use whatever criteria you wish to determine what donations you make- but also know that the Foundation's finances are stable at the moment, so you aren't really hurting them too much. 
:[[WP:V|Verifiability]] is one of the more important principles of Wikipedia.  That is why references are required.  We can't reference any individual's personal experience or knowledge- because we have no way of verifying that any particular user is who they say they are- and because what they say can change over time.  Truth is in the eye of the beholder these days(when Capitol rioters who sought to execute the Vice President of the United States are dismissed as "tourists") so we focus on what can be verified; see [[WP:TRUTH]].  This does not mean that inaccurate information cannot be corrected.  Is there a particular situation that we can help you with? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 18:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

{{collapse bottom}}

== Employ AI-driven animation software to ensure smooth and professional character movements. ==

Employ AI-driven animation software to ensure smooth and professional character movements. [[Special:Contributions/45.124.15.205|45.124.15.205]] ([[User talk:45.124.15.205|talk]]) 04:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:Feel free to do it yourself. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 05:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:Animation software already does this. No AI is necessary for such trivia. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 12:51, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:This is not relevant to Wikipedia in any way. [[User:CharlieEdited|CharlieEdited]] ([[User talk:CharlieEdited|talk]]) 00:07, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::This might be some piece of automated software to post advertising anywhere it can find text editors on the web.  [[User:22FatCats|22FatCats]] ([[User talk:22FatCats|talk]]) 09:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Wikipedia is not the place for self-promotion or advertising. The purpose of Wikipedia is to create a place to learn about things, entirely community-driven. [[User:MacaroniPizzaHotDog|MacaroniPizzaHotDog]] ([[User talk:MacaroniPizzaHotDog|talk]]) 03:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:Sir, I want you to explain what in god's name you are trying to ask? Wikipedia is one the biggest online encyclopedia's, not an advertisement. Artificial Intelligence, is worse than human artists. Please shut your mouth, your username looks like an IP address, and you sound like a bot. ''It's simply facts.''  [[User:Nojboj|Nojboj]] ([[User talk:Nojboj|talk]]) 23:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== How to add an image to a userbox in the UBX creator? ==

I'm currently hoping to make some new userboxes and I want to include images in the ones I hope to create. Some userboxes will contain only one image while others contain two on both sides. However, I'm struggling to figure out how to add images to the given code in the creator. Any advice on how to do so would be greatly appreciated! [[User:Surayeproject3|Surayeproject3]] ([[User talk:Surayeproject3|talk]]) 20:31, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Surayeproject3}} What do you mean by "the UBX creator"? If you refer to something specific you saw somewhere then please link it. Or do you just want to create userboxes? With a template like {{tl|userbox}} you can choose to add image code in the <code>id</code> parameter. For example, [[User:UserBox/User Earthling]] says <code><nowiki>id       = [[Image:The Earth seen from Apollo 17.jpg|43px]]</nowiki></code>. {{tl|Userbox-2}} has two parameters <code>id1</code> and <code>id2</code> which can both be used for images. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:46, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::I just want to create userboxes, and I meant the Userbox creator provided. How can I see the specific code for a userbox so I know how to base my own template for userboxes I wanna create, especially for two images? The process is kind of confusing me as it is my first time making userboxes. [[User:Surayeproject3|Surayeproject3]] ([[User talk:Surayeproject3|talk]]) 00:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Surayeproject3|Surayeproject3]] You don't need to use [[User:UBX]]. You can have a userbox anywhere in your userspace (which is what you should do) such as [[User:Surayeproject3/Userbox BlahBlah]]. You can see the code for {{[[Template:userbox|userbox]]}} (that's the userbox creator) at it's documentation. Paste the code in [[Template:Userbox/doc#Usage]] on your userbox page, and edit the values you want, and you can look at examples here [[Template:Userbox/doc#Examples]]. Once you're done, preview the page and if it looks good, publish it! <span style="background:#88f8f8; border-radius:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px; padding:2px 5px">[[User:Win8x|win8x]] ([[User talk:Win8x|talking]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Win8x|spying]])</span> 02:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Surayeproject3}} I don't know what you mean by "the Userbox creator provided". I asked for a link. {{tl|Userbox-2}} has documentation of its parameters. You can click the edit tab at [[User:UserBox/User Earth]] to see an example use with two images. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 02:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] This is the link I'm referring too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userbox_Maker [[User:Surayeproject3|Surayeproject3]] ([[User talk:Surayeproject3|talk]]) 23:18, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Surayeproject3}} [[Wikipedia:Userbox Maker]] uses {{tl|Userbox}} which does not have an option for images in both sides. Use {{tl|Userbox-2}} for that. I don't think it has a "Userbox Maker" but you can just copy and adapt code from the documentation or an existing use like [[User:UserBox/User Earth]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Surayeproject3}} Please make sure you carefully read through [[:WP:UBX#Caution about image use]] before adding any images to an userbox. Not all images you see used on Wikipedia are licensed the same way, those licensed as [[:WP:NFC|non-free content]] can't be used in userboxes. If you try to do so, they will almost certainly be removed (perhaps rather quickly) by either a [[:WP:BOT]] or a Wikipedian that reviews how files are being used. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 03:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I should be good to use images that are on Wikimedia Commons, no? The images uploaded there have to be in public domain either way, but let me know if there are other rules surrounding this [[User:Surayeproject3|Surayeproject3]] ([[User talk:Surayeproject3|talk]]) 23:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Surayeproject3}} Commons images must have a free license ''or'' be public domain. It's not the same but both are allowed in user boxes. If it's not public domain then the image must link to the file page but it does so by default. You are only allowed to disable the link with <code>|link=</code> in the image code if the image is public domain. Some images were uploaded to Commons with an invalid license and aren't actually allowed there but if you didn't upload it yourself then just assume that the license is valid. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== Changing date format ==

I recently changed the date format on a stub article [[Escape from Germany (2024 film)]], an '''American''' film about German events, over to the American mdy format. It was [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Escape%20from%20Germany%20(2024%20film)&diff=prev&oldid=1243951628 undone] by [[User:Szagory|Szagory]] who claimed since they created the page, they get to choose which format is used per [[MOS:DATERET]]. This seems to me like [[WP:OWNBEHAVIOR]]. Was I wrong here?&nbsp;<span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 11:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Limmidy|Limmidy]] I'd say a mix of yes and no. Although the film is an American film, it is set in Germany and thus has ties to both, so really it is a bit of a toss-up and you should probably follow the initial date formatting as per DATERET. Although I can definitely see where you're coming from due to how they worded the revert, I wouldn't see citing DATERET as a case of [[WP:OWN|ownership behaviour]] as they are using sound reasoning. 
:What I would advise is that you follow [[WP:BRD|BOLD, Revert, Discuss]] in the future, it's a really good method for settling these sorts of issues. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 12:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::Howzit [[user:Limmidy|Limmidy]],
::Just to clarify my position: I personally have no objection to mixing date formats (MDY vs. DMY) and English spelling variants (American English vs. [[English in the Commonwealth of Nations|Commonwealth English]]), provided that they are not side by side.
::But at the same time there is [[MOS:DATEVAR|first major contributor rule]] - and it was me who created that article, I use Commonwealth English spelling and I prefer dates to be in DD-MM-YYYY format. I realise that this film is American - but at the same time '''it is about events in [[Nazi Germany]]''', not USA. For somebody to complain now that non-American spelling and non-US date format is used - pardon my honesty, but that sounds a bit rich: the film was released in the States since April (for almost 5 months), and nobody has bothered to create an article for it. But now that I've created it, for somebody suddenly to decide to change the spelling and date format - such changes can't be regarded as "major contribution", don't you agree? 😕
::Once again: please feel free to use American date format and spelling - but at the same time please respect '''my prerogative as article's creator and first main contributor''' to use spelling and date format '''consistent with my original text'''. Hopefully no bad feelings, mate? 😉
::Cheers,
::[[User:Szagory|Szagory]] ([[User talk:Szagory|talk]]) 12:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::No bad feelings at all - this isn't even a complaint, just looking for clarification on guidelines. I originally made the change because the article ''only'' described the film as an "American historical drama film" from an American director released in the US [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Escape_from_Germany_(2024_film)&oldid=1243882589 at that time of the change], and the infobox was using the mdy format, so I switched it over similarly to how another American film relating to Germany [[Fury (2014 film)|''Fury'' (2014 film)]] had it. Nothing more! <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 14:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::: {{Ping|Szagory}} That's not a "rule", and even if it were, it does not give you a veto. It says (my emboldening) {{Tq|1="If an article has evolved using predominantly one date format, this format should be used throughout the article, '''unless there are reasons for changing it''' based on the topic's strong ties to a particular English-speaking country, or consensus on the article's talk page."}} <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 14:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Hi [[user:Pigsonthewing|Andy]],
::::I see your drift and agree with it, to large extent - and of course I acquiesce completely to your point that ideally '''consensus should be reached regarding changes to date format or English spelling variant''' to be used throughout any given article.
::::At the same time there is no such rule that articles on all US-related topics should stick to American date format and/or American English, is there? And [[MOS:DATERET]] clearly says:
:::::''<code>The date format chosen in the first major contribution in the early stages of an article should continue to be used... Where an article has shown no clear sign of which format is used, '''the first person to insert a date is equivalent to "the first major contributor"'''.</code>''
::::And there was a clearly date in DD-MM-YYYY format in article's [[WP:Lead]], wasn't there? 😉
::::============================
::::Hi [[user:Limmidy|Limmidy]],
::::Yes, I'm not aware of a way to customise [[Template:Film date|Film date]] template to display dates for [[WP:Infobox]] in a specific format (you know, like "is_UK" parameter for [[Template:Infobox weapon|Infobox weapon]]). Hence dates in [[Template:Infobox film|Infobox film]] might indeed look inconsistent with date format in the article, unfortunately.
::::But so far as my "[[:wikt:barney|barney]]" with you (if it were to be regarded as adversarial 😋) goes: like I said, I wouldn't insist on all future changes to [[Escape from Germany (2024 film)]] being made strictly with non-US date format and British English spelling (IMO, date formats and English spelling variants could be mixed '''<u>within reason</u>''' in the same article) - so if you want to, '''we could remove [[Template:Use dmy dates|Use dmy dates]] from the article altogether'''. But please just don't expect me suddenly to change the spelling (and to lesser degree, date format) in an article which was created by me. 😎
::::P.S. Could somebody go ahead and add a theatrical release poster image for [[Escape from Germany (2024 film)]] to the article, please? Because I'm never sure where people get such images without violating Wikipedia's copyright restrictions... 🙄
::::[[User:Szagory|Szagory]] ([[User talk:Szagory|talk]]) 15:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::You are quite correct that a rule which I neither claimed or implied exists does not exist. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Hi [[user:Limmidy|Limmidy]],
::::::I've started watching the film and quickly lost all interest in it - it's one thing for a film to be made on shoestring budget, but it's something else to see an inexpensively made production with stilted acting, riddled with historical inaccuracies, and with dialogue that can only be described as "Bible bashing" (what really got me was a line spoken by a Mormon missionary and addressed to American consul-general: "''[[Heber J. Grant]] has a better source of intelligence than US military''", meaning obviously God)... 😕
::::::The article is all yours, mate - and you can change the dates in it to US format, if you want. But if possible, I'd appreciate it if my original British English spelling in the text were left unchanged.
::::::Good night,
::::::[[User:Szagory|Szagory]] ([[User talk:Szagory|talk]]) 23:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{reply|Szagory}} {{reply|Limmidy}} As an American myself, I'll say that while British spelling appears to my eyes as archaic and sometimes pretentious, I must say that the US/American way of representing dates is downright stupid! I'm all in favor of adopting the dd-mm-yyyy and yyyy-mm-dd formats in all articles. All Americans understand both, anyway! An American film, even about an American topic, is not harmed by using internationally-accepted date formats. Let's lose the US format. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 23:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Szagory|Szagory]] @[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] Both of these comments are hilarious!! Personally I have no interest in the article or the film, but I like this answer about the harmlessness of using internationally-accepted date formats. I should've considered that. Thank you all! <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 00:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Szagory|Szagory]], above you said {{tq|I personally have no objection to mixing date formats (MDY vs. DMY) and English spelling variants (American English vs. Commonwealth English)}} and again {{tq|IMO, date formats and English spelling variants could be mixed within reason in the same article}}. Please be aware that this idea is inconsistent with the Manual of Style, which at [[MOS:CONSISTENT]] says {{tq|The conventions of a particular variety of English should be followed consistently within a given article}}, and at [[MOS:DATEUNIFY]] says {{tq|Dates in article body text should all use the same format}}. [[User:CodeTalker|CodeTalker]] ([[User talk:CodeTalker|talk]]) 00:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages using WikiProject [insert project] with unknown parameters ==

In [[Special:WantedPages]], a lot of the most wanted pages are empty categories for pages that use a WikiProject with unknown parameters. In fact, the most wanted page, with nearly <b>120,000</b> pages (most appear to be talk pages) linking to it, is the empty category "Category:Pages using WikiProject Lepidoptera with unknown parameters". Why is that? [[User:BombCraft8|BombCraft8]] <sup>([[User talk:BombCraft8|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/BombCraft8|contributions]])</sup> 00:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|BombCraft8}}. The banner template is causing that. You'd get the most informed answer by posting to this talk page: [[Module talk:WikiProject banner]]. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 05:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|BombCraft8}} Some users make articles about most described species. [[Lepidoptera]] says "About 180,000 species of the Lepidoptera have been described". Around 120,000 talk pages use {{tl|WikiProject Lepidoptera}} which uses [[Module:WikiProject banner]] which uses [[Module:Check for unknown parameters]]. I haven't examined the details but I guess the latter always checks for existence of a category for unknown parameters so the talk page can be added to the category if an unknown parameter is found in the call of {{tl|WikiProject Lepidoptera}}. Such an existence check can have the same effect as a link and make it look like the category is extremely wanted. I don't know how many of the 120,000 talk pages would actually be added to [[:Category:Pages using WikiProject Lepidoptera with unknown parameters]] if is was created but it's probably very few, unless an allowed parameter is incorrectly registered as unknown. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The category is empty, the pages just link to it. [[User:BombCraft8|BombCraft8]] <sup>([[User talk:BombCraft8|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/BombCraft8|contributions]])</sup> 13:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|BombCraft8}} They don't actually link to it. They only make an ifexist check to se whether the category exists. This is registered as a link in some MediaWiki features even if there is no link. For example, the  pages are listed at [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Category:Pages using WikiProject Lepidoptera with unknown parameters]]. [[Help:What links here#Overview]] says: The parser function [[:mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist:]] causes a listing in "What links here" among the normal links, even though no link is produced. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'd suggest removing the ifexist check, since it causes all these categories to clog up WantedPages [[User:BombCraft8|BombCraft8]] <sup>([[User talk:BombCraft8|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/BombCraft8|contributions]])</sup> 01:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Ok [[User:BombCraft8|BombCraft8]] <sup>([[User talk:BombCraft8|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/BombCraft8|contributions]])</sup> 13:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== German Infobox trouble. ==

I am asking a question for a German translation article of George Finey. Is there any sort of Infobox that can work with comic artists or just a regular person. I used Infobox by itself but it seemed insufficient. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. [[User:Nojboj|Nojboj]] ([[User talk:Nojboj|talk]]) 23:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:Asking this question on German Wikipedia would have provided you with the best answer! [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 01:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

: {{re|Nojboj}} Ask at [[:de:Wikipedia:Fragen_von_Neulingen]] [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 01:25, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Pay walled sources ==

What is WP's policy regarding the use of pay-walled reference's as reliable sources. If the source cannot be viewed by the reader without payment what purpose does it serve. It is basically not available since most readers will not pay.  [[User: Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven</em>''']]<small>[[User talk:Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk</em>''']]</small> (UTC) 12:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Buster7|Buster7]] The easiest way to explain this is to look in the general direction of [[WP:TWL|The Wikipedia Library]]. [[WP:PAYWALL|Paywalled sources]] are fully acceptable on the assumption that if the person providing the source can access it and can state what's on there when prompted, it's fine. You can also ask someone at the [[WP:REX|Resource Exchange]] to look at it for you. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 12:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the quick response.  [[User: Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven</em>''']]<small>[[User talk:Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk</em>''']]</small> (UTC) 12:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|Buster7}}, for many topics, the best sources will be books written by academics and published by university presses. I do not think we should exclude those sources because the text is not available for free online. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Cullen}}, yes. True enough. But it does present a problem when the source cannot be read to verify that what is claimed is actually in the article. I can't check to read for myself and, in so doing, verify that the claim has not been misunderstood or mis-represented.  [[User: Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven</em>''']]<small>[[User talk:Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk</em>''']]</small> (UTC) 01:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::If you're concerned that a source added by someone else is being misrepresented and are unable to verify it yourself, you can discuss it on the article's talk. Perhaps someone who can access the source can provide the verification you seek. You can also ask about it at [[:WP:RX]] or [[:WP:RSN]] since one the regulars at those noticeboards might be able to verify the source. If you're unable to read a source yourself that you want to add in support of some article content, then you probably shouldn't use it until you're able to verify its [[:WP:RSCONTEXT]]. Wikipedia policy only requires that source be reliable, published and accessible. See [[:WP:PUBLISH]] and [[:WP:PUBLISHED]] for some more information on this. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== How can I add a new page about a music artist if I'm a brand new editor/member? ==

Hello!  I am a 51 year old musician living in New York, and I have had an extensive career performing/touring/recording with many artists.  Could someone begin a page about me that I could then edit?  Thank you !   Linktree.com/Benoir [[User:Benoir Metzger|Benoir Metzger]] ([[User talk:Benoir Metzger|talk]]) 03:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Benoir Metzger}}. Please be aware that [[WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY|autobiographical editing]] is strongly discouraged, and that you should follow the guidelines for editing with a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]]. We have a [[WP:MUSICBIO|notability guideline for musical performers]] that you should read. My brief internet search failed to find evidence that you are a notable musical performer as Wikipedia defines that term. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 04:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Checking for recent discussion activity across multiple wikiprojects? ==

There are a ton of wikiprojects under the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Music|WikiProject Music]] umbrella, and I'm wondering if there's an easy way for me to tell which sub-projects have had recent discussions without having to click on each one individually. Ideally I'd love if there was a way to sort the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory/Culture/Music|directory]] by recent activity, but if not, would my best bet be to add all the talk pages to my watchlist and just check that on occasion? Does anyone else have experience with looking for recent/active discussions across several wikiprojects? Thanks in advance! [[User:Violetstork|Violetstork]] ([[User talk:Violetstork|talk]]) 03:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
: [[User:Violetstork|Violetstork]], try clicking [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&search=Wikipedia%20talk%3A%20intitle%3AWikiProject_Music%20YOUR%20SEARCH%20KEYWORDS&fulltext=1 this search link]. In the search box, replace the words in all-caps with your own search keywords, and hit the blue search button and check out the results. Come back and lmk if it is working for you, and if not, what problems you are seeing. Thanks, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 06:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Seeking advice regarding a musical artist's notability ==

{{atop|1=Please don't ask the same question in more than one venue. Discuss at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians#Seeking thoughts regarding a draft]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 10:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)}}

Hi everyone. I've posted this as a question over on the Talk page of [[WP:MUSICIAN]], but wanted to ask it here as well. I stumbled upon some news for an Israeli-Palestinian pop group called as1one, of which, [[Draft:As1one|a draft already exists]]. I've since edited the draft based on the new news/existing press in the draft. They have some decent press (Billboard, Variety, People, some newspaper coverage) but have yet to release anything. Conventional wisdom tells me that they're notable/approaching notability based on the publications reporting on them (based on traditional [[WP:V]] and note 1 of [[WP:BAND]]), but I'm curious what outside opinions would say about this situation, considering they haven't produced any songs/videos. A documentary about the group is due to be released on Paramount+, but obviously has not been released yet. I'm curious, does the existence of good quality articles dictate their notability despite not having released any content? [[User:30Four|30Four]] ([[User talk:30Four|talk]]) 23:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

{{abot}}

== Help! ==

Are you allowed to use ChatGPT for Wikipedia? Please let me know if i should use ChatGPT for editing or not! [[User:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|DANiHeARTz. .MEE]] ([[User talk:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|talk]]) 15:17, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, DANiHeARTz. .MEE, and welcome to the Teahouse. 
:The answer is that is is discouraged. Please see [[WP:LLM]] for the reasons. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 15:33, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|DANiHeARTz. .MEE]] Welcome to the Teahouse. In essence 'NO' (but see below). 
:You should carefully read these two essays [[Wikipedia:Large language models]] and [[Wikipedia:Large language models and copyright]] (including the 'See Also' links at the bottom of each page) to understand the serious pitfalls and traps in using any AI tool to create content to place ni Wikipedia. Basically, don't let it regurgitate nonsense which you then paste into Wikipedia believing it to be neutral and true, and as if you had written it when you hadn't.
:As you know, AI tools have sucked up tons and tons of proper, high-quality, human-written content (including Wikipedia articles) and is now regurgitating it to others as if it were written and analysed by a human when it has not. It's a rapidly developing field, and I don't believe we've yet got any formal policies on its use or application here on Wikipedia. But please avoid it. I fear for a bland and error-filled future if AI content is repeatedly used and reused to generate content that other AI tools then use and reuse [[Chinese whispers|to generate more 'new' content]].
:That said, if used indirectly, and with caution, it can have its uses - and I've been using it extremely carefully myself recently whilst drafting an article on a very obscure European glacier. Basically, I used ChatGPT to ''"write an article on XX glacier in the style of a Wikipedia article and supply a list of relevant sources"''. I then pasted that response into an offline word processor and am working my way through the references it found to assess their accuracy, content and usefulness to me. I'm simply looking at the response ChatGPT gave me as a quick layout and content prompt. But I'm still writing the content myself ''based upon me actually reading and checking those references!!!'' You must do that to should you ever be tempted - and do the actual writing yourself.
:    
:We have a saying here in the UK that ''You can't polish a turd''. So, if you think that without any critical or analytical skills we should let editors use AI tools as a lazy way to avoid doing any proper editing work ourselves, I'd have to ask you why you'd bother coming here to contribute in the first place? Once you've let AI generated content into this encyclopaedia, why not simply encourage everyone else to use AI tools directly and simply blow up Wikipedia with all its human input, oversight and analysis? So please tread extremely carefully, and avoid it if you don't have confidence in your own ability to judge accuracy of [[WP:RS|Reliable Sources]] for yourself.  Regards, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 15:49, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:Adding to what Nick Moyes said, I would not recommend using ChatGPT in WP-discussions either (not that you did). See for example  [[Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard/Archive_206#Madame_Tussauds_COI]] [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 18:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Ok thanks for this amazing info. [[User:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|DANiHeARTz. .MEE]] ([[User talk:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|talk]]) 06:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::Ive clicked on both links and read them on my mind, also watched some of the video that's "06 Lighting Talk" in WP:LLM. [[User:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|DANiHeARTz. .MEE]] ([[User talk:DANiHeARTz. .MEE|talk]]) 06:42, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Here is an article that suggests some ways AI could be used to actually improve Wikipedia. [https://tech.facebook.com/artificial-intelligence/2022/7/how-ai-could-help-make-wikipedia-entries-more-accurate/] [[User:Thellosnellow|Thellosnellow]] ([[User talk:Thellosnellow|talk]]) 02:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:You technically can, but I wouldn't suggest using it. Wikipedia is better when actual writers, with talent, contribute. Maybe work on essays, and you can try an article. @[[User:Thellosnellow|Thellosnellow]] does mention AI's contributing, but leave the '''''writing''''' to humans. ChatGPT can't tell us how many r's are in the word strawberry, I don't think we should allow it to write. Citations would be horrible to find. Same with links. Overall, even if AI was advanced enough, it shouldn't be writing in a place where facts matter a lot, and you must be able to prove them. [[User:Nojboj|Nojboj]] ([[User talk:Nojboj|talk]]) 23:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::With ongoing rapid advancements, I think there is a role for AI in writing articles. [[User:Thellosnellow|Thellosnellow]] ([[User talk:Thellosnellow|talk]]) 02:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Well agree to disagree. [[User:Nojboj|Nojboj]] ([[User talk:Nojboj|talk]]) 10:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Whatever happened to {Color|Gradient} ==

I dont know what happened to the option to use the gradient option on a Color template. Seriously what happened? '''[[User:Shjunpei|<span style="color:#d60270"><small>sh</small></span><span style="color:#9b4f96">Jun</span><span style="color:#0038a8">pei</span>]]''' ''[[User talk:Shjunpei|<small>talk</small>]]'' 17:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
: [[User talk:Shjunpei|Shjunpei]], can you be more specific? What template? Do you have an example where it is not working as you expect? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 06:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Mainly all the color templates ive tried. '''[[User:Shjunpei|<span style="color:#d60270"><small>sh</small></span><span style="color:#9b4f96">Jun</span><span style="color:#0038a8">pei</span>]]''' ''[[User talk:Shjunpei|<small>talk</small>]]'' 09:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::How do you think somebody who want to answer your question should know which templates you have tried? Even two examples only would be better than this answer. [[Special:Contributions/2A02:3032:307:F168:CD3E:8CD1:DA3E:C693|2A02:3032:307:F168:CD3E:8CD1:DA3E:C693]] ([[User talk:2A02:3032:307:F168:CD3E:8CD1:DA3E:C693|talk]]) 10:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Shjunpei}} {{tl|color}} does not have a {{code|gradient}} parameter and never has. See {{section link|Template:Color|TemplateData}}. [[User:Bazza_7|Bazza&nbsp;<span style="color:grey">7</span>]] ([[User_talk:Bazza_7|talk]]) 10:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::What.... but i thought it did. '''[[User:Shjunpei|<span style="color:#d60270"><small>sh</small></span><span style="color:#9b4f96">Jun</span><span style="color:#0038a8">pei</span>]]''' ''[[User talk:Shjunpei|<small>talk</small>]]'' 11:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== donation ==

i have used QR CODE to UPI pay 312/- through mobile but that is not recorded on the payment page. and that page prompting to pay. find a solution to direct the payment acknowledgement in that manner. many will be feeling that. [[Special:Contributions/103.241.225.164|103.241.225.164]] ([[User talk:103.241.225.164|talk]]) 16:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
: We can't help with donation questions here.  send your inquiry to donate@wikimedia.org [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 16:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Is this article now ready  ==

An article I created but still in the draftspace [[Draft:Ndagi Abdullahi]] was previously deleted by [[WP:PROD]], see deletion log. I don't know if the one I recreated is now ready to be moved to the mainspace. Is it now verifiable with my added references. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 07:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Josedimaria}}, I noticed very quickly that the content about his early life and education was copied directly from your first reference. That is a violation of [[WP:COPYRIGHT]] and you cannot use a long quotation not clearly indicated as a quotation as a complete section. Your prose must be your original writing, not a cut and paste job from your references. Use of direct quotations should be a small percentage of your prose, and the reader must be able to distinguish quotations from originally written content, which should constitute most of the prose. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 08:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Apart from that, is there any other improvement you think should be done?
::Secondly, can you help me re-write that section. Thanks {{ping|Cullen328}} <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 10:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|Josedimaria}}, I am sorry but I am not familiar enough with the reliability of  Nigerian sources to assist you any further. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== How do I redirect a page fully? ==

I need help redirecting the page [[Draft:El Er Cyrillic]] to [[Draft:El Er(Cyrillic)]] and i already put the stuff for the redirecting but still doesnt redirect to the page [[Draft:El Er(Cyrillic)]] please help i need help making a wikipedia redirect [[Special:Contributions/2001:8F8:1D1C:A09E:74AF:CC6F:BABB:6867|2001:8F8:1D1C:A09E:74AF:CC6F:BABB:6867]] ([[User talk:2001:8F8:1D1C:A09E:74AF:CC6F:BABB:6867|talk]]) 16:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{done}}. You placed the redirect but did not remove the AfC template at the top, which is why the redirect didn't work. If you are User:MateuszKapicki10, please do not edit while [[Help:Logging in#Logging out|logged out]]. [[User:Jeraxmoira|Jeraxmoira🐉]] ([[User talk:Jeraxmoira|talk]]) 21:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Adding NXX info to an NPA ==

I am trying to edit the wikipedia page for whale code and add the NXX info under the section where the NPA is listed. I thought I added it correctly as I received no error, but it doesnt show when i test the edit.
Im sure its a syntax thing, back I cant seem to get it right. Can someone provide me a suggestion or an example of the Syntax I need to use as Id like to add this information for other remote communities.

here is the link:
[[Whale Cove, Nunavut]]
Much appreciated,

regards, Vacantcode [[User:Vacantcode|Vacantcode]] ([[User talk:Vacantcode|talk]]) 19:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi, [[User:Vacantcode|Vacantcode]], and welcome to the Teahouse. I can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Whale_Cove%2C_Nunavut&diff=1244033348&oldid=1244032952 that you tried to add] a parameter for 'NXX' to the article, which uses [[:Template:Infobox settlement]]. Being in the UK, I don't know actually know what NXX actually refers to (telephone dialling code for the area, perhaps?), but it's clear that this is not a parameter which that template supports. 
:I wonder if you'd have any success if you used the approved parameter 'area_code' and 'area_code_type'? A full list of the displayable parameters can be seen in the documentation for Template:Infobox settlement. If you try to add any new ones of your own, it simply won't show them in the article. But, if you believe this is an important parameter to have in articles that use that template, then I would suggest starting a discussion on the template's talk page to explain your rationale, and see what other editors feel about it. Does that help at all? [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 20:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::sort of helps and you are correct about your assumption of the NXX, similar to in the UK which is identified here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom  In North America, the numbering plan is CC-NPA-NXX-xxxx, so where the NPA is used,ie: 867, I was hoping to add the NXX identifier below it. Sadly, I cant seem to get the syntax right.
::Now for the other part of your answer, is it needed, well that's a debatable question as this info can be found elsewhere on the web, but in smaller communities in Canadas far north, it may be a little more helpful.
::My hope was to learn how to add the info below the NPA field but it seems my understanding of how to do so is incorrect. So if any Wikipedians can advise, that would be wonderful. [[User:Vacantcode|Vacantcode]] ([[User talk:Vacantcode|talk]]) 16:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Hello, Vacantcode, and welcome to the Teahouse. A template, such as [[Template:Infobox settlement]], only understands those parameters which have been defined for it. It is possible to edit the template itself to add a new parameter, but you can't successfully just add an extra parameter in the article where the template is used. See [[WP:Template|Template]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 22:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

== Question ==

hello and good afternoon, how are the little icons for articles made? [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero &#91;&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 21:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hey. Could you clarify? If you are talking about good articles, the file is [[:c:File:Symbol support vote.svg]] and for featured articles, it is [[:c:File:Cscr-featured.svg]]. Some templates let us put them in the corners of articles. <span style="background:#88f8f8; border-radius:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px; padding:2px 5px">[[User:Win8x|win8x]] ([[User talk:Win8x|talking]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Win8x|spying]])</span> 21:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::ok, thanks a bunch! [=D [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero &#91;&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 21:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Jude marrero}} Articles that have those symbols have gone through strict reviewing processes. The one with the green check mark is called a [[WP:GA|Good article]] and the one with the star is called a [[WP:FA|featured article]]. Editors work hard to bring their articles up to these standards, so they're marked in honor of that and to let the reader know that the article has been properly reviewed. The icons on the articles can only be added if an article passes one of the respective review processes. <span style="border-radius:3em;padding:5px;background:#483D8B;">‍'''[[User:Relativity|<span style="color:white">Rela</span>]]'''[[User talk:Relativity|<span style="color:white">tivity ⚡️</span>]]</span> 02:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== We should have a talk page on Wikipedia. ==

This talk page would be called "Wikipedian Dissocia" and it will be accessible for anyone and it would be about people who are plural explaining their plurality. [[User:Sisixive|Sisixive]] ([[User talk:Sisixive|talk]]) 13:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Sisixive|Sisixive]] I don't think that would be sensible, as it would, IMO, fall into the category of things that [[WP:NOT|Wikipedia is not to be used for]]. In that connection, you have created and linked from your userpage a number of drafts for [[WP:MADEUP|languages you made up]], which is also inappropriate use of Wikipedia as a web host. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:To add to Mike Turnbull's reply: that's not really what talk pages are for? Talk pages are for collaborating and discussing improvements to an article (or other page, depending on the talk page type). Anything that might affect your editing or communication with others can just go on your userpage if it's short or as a user subpage if longer. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 13:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Sisixive|Sisixive]] [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Sisixive Judging by your total contribution history] and your Talk Page, you seem to have added virtually nothing to Wikipedia other than inappropriate drafts about stuff you have made up. Continuing in that vein is likely to lead to a [[WP:NOTHERE]] block. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I tried to make conlangs for everyone but no one takes the time to learn them. And about not contributing, I want to but I don't know where to start. [[User:Sisixive|Sisixive]] ([[User talk:Sisixive|talk]]) 15:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:Sisixive|Sisixive]], may I suggest another website which is more appropriate for your conlang works, for example reddit.com/r/conlang or linguifex.com. Wikipedia is ''only'' for topics which are mainstream and notable, which your conlang are not. Sorry.
::::You should back up your current drafts before they get deleted, as they are not appropriate for Wikipedia. 
::::For improvements to Wikipedia, check out the suggested pages on [[SPECIAL:HOMEPAGE]]. <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">Qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 15:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I have nominated all of your conlang drafts for deletion per [[WP:MADEUP]]. Please do read that page as it covers why these are not permitted.--[[User:Jasper Deng|Jasper Deng]] [[User talk:Jasper Deng|(talk)]] 05:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Romanian LGBTQ magazine ==

I reverted an IP user on [[Gay 45]] for replacing content with the magazine's about page, and they're now saying on the article's Talk page that the article has serious issues. Could someone with more knowledge about working with the subjects of articles fix this? Thank you for all your hard work! <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size: 90%;">[[User:QuietCicada|QuietCicada]]</span> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size: 70%;"> [[User talk:QuietCicada|chirp]]</span> 20:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong with the revert. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Gay_45&oldid=1243748259 This] version by an IP user has serious issues as it doesn't even come off as encyclopedic and appears like [[WP:PROMO]]. You were right to call out the potential [[WP:COPYVIO]] on the talk page. Just talk with the IP user and see what changes they're looking for. It doesn't matter if they are who they claim to be, they can't just do as they please here. <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 21:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

::{{ping|Limmidy}} True, but our article is probably pretty bad. See the talkpage. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 21:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] It seems like it was created a few days ago. From my initial read of the article in its current form, I was able to generally understand what it was about and why it's considered notable, so I think that's a good start. <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 22:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I believe this article was created by a sockpuppet; see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Armoiregrimoire]]. [[User:Helpful Raccoon|Helpful Raccoon]] ([[User talk:Helpful Raccoon|talk]]) 19:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Helpful Raccoon|Helpful Raccoon]] Oh wow I was not expecting this development. Well, @[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] and I can't seem to verify anything clearly over on the [[Talk:Gay 45#Sources|talk page]], so this whole topic is a blur to me. <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS','Chalkboard','ChalkboardSE-Regular',sans-serif;padding:0 2px;">[[User:Limmidy|<b>Limmidy</b>]] <small>([[User talk:Limmidy|talk]]</small>)</span> 03:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Interesting! I watchlisted the page. This rabbit hole is super deep. In addition to this I am also curious if the person is who they say they are, but sadly we will probably never know. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 06:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Changing title ==

Hello, i would like to know how to chnage my sandbox title for the first time ever.

Thanks. [[User:Kraft News|Kraft News]] ([[User talk:Kraft News|talk]]) 18:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

: {{Ping|Kraft News}} It's not clear what you mean. Your Sandbox will always be at [[User:Kraft News/sandbox]]. You can create another, at [[User:Kraft News/sandbox 2]], or any similar title, if you wish. If you want to change what your sandbox says, just edit it. If you mean something else, please explain. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 20:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:You can move it to [[User:Kraft News/Box of sand]] or whatever if you wish. But doing so won't remove the STOP sign from it. [[Special:Contributions/126.53.182.199|126.53.182.199]] ([[User talk:126.53.182.199|talk]]) 04:23, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Okay, thanks for your time! [[User:Kraft News|Kraft News]] ([[User talk:Kraft News|talk]]) 09:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help moving page ==

Hi, I think the page [[Huerta Norte]] should be moved back to [[Horta Nord]], I exposed the reasons in the talk page (the official name in Valencian instead of the Spanish translation, like all the other Valencian regions' pages) I tagged the person that changed it without receiving a response, but I think the moving was probably a mistake. In any case I cannot move it as the original page now already exists as a redirect, can someone give me a hand (or contribute to the talk page)? Thank you, [[User:Bsckr|Bsckr]] ([[User talk:Bsckr|talk]]) 07:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Bsckr|Bsckr]] {{done}}. For such requests in the future, you can make it at [[WP:RM/TR]] where pagemovers and administrators will move the article accordingly if reasonably requested for. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 11:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Citing Sources in Introduction ==

I've noticed that a lot of good-quality articles do not cite sources at all in the introduction. Is it not necessary to do so if the information is supported by the body of the article? [[User:Spookyaki|Spookyaki]] ([[User talk:Spookyaki|talk]]) 02:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{re|Spookyaki}} Correct.  Information in the lede should be a summary of the already cited information in the article body.  See [[WP:LEDE]] [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 03:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Spookyaki}}, direct quotations in the lead must be referenceed, along with any claim that has been challenged or is likely to be challenged. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::See [[WP:LEADCITE]] for details. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== How to edit language label link in Template:Lang-___ ==

I want to edit the language label link on [[Template:Lang-pdc]] to direct to [[Pennsylvania Dutch language]] instead of [[Pennsylvania German language]], which is currently a redirect to the former. But I couldn't figure out how to do so. Can someone help?

Also, should the language label itself be changed to "Pennsylvania Dutch"? [[User:Alisperic|Alisperic]] ([[User talk:Alisperic|talk]]) 04:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
: You cannot change it, it comes directly from the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IANA language-subtag-registry file].  And no, it should not be changed. It is a variant of German. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 06:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Alright, thanks. [[User:Alisperic|Alisperic]] ([[User talk:Alisperic|talk]]) 10:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Alisperic}} It would be possible to change in [[Module:Lang/data/iana languages]] but it would affect other things, e.g. adding articles to [[:Category:Articles containing Pennsylvania Dutch-language text]] instead of [[:Category:Articles containing Pennsylvania German-language text]]. The official language name for pdc is Pennsylvania German and I don't think it's worth changing just to avoid a redirect. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I see. Thanks for the info. [[User:Alisperic|Alisperic]] ([[User talk:Alisperic|talk]]) 22:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::"Dutch" is really an unfortunate name, because it has nothing to do with Netherlands, but rather a mispronounciation of German word for its language – [[Deutsch language|Deutsch]]. and now is ambiguous with the same English word for the language of Netherlands [[Dutch language]]. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 11:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== New way of Citation ==

Hi, few days ago an ad appeared after log in says that a new way of citation has arrived, i forgot the name of that but it described that now you can cite multiple pages of a book from single citation. Can anybody locate me to that.–– [[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 08:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:KEmel49|KEmel49]]: Do you mean [[meta:WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing]]? (That info page is hosted on the global Wikimedia site and the test is taking place on a beta site, so it's not the easiest thing to find when the announcement has disappeared!)<span id="ClaudineChionh:1725615577818:WikipediaFTTCLNTeahouse" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;'''[[User:ClaudineChionh|ClaudineChionh]]''' <small>(''she/her'' · [[User talk:ClaudineChionh|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/ClaudineChionh|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/ClaudineChionh|email]])</small> 09:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Meanwhile, a simple way to cite the book once in the references, combined with [[WP:NAMED|named references]] to allow various individual pages to be cited is to use the {{tl|rp}} template. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]], Yeah that's an useful information too.{{thank}} ––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 11:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:ClaudineChionh|ClaudineChionh]], {{thank}} I was searching for that as it has previously appeared as banner after logging in. and i was looking for that now.–– [[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 11:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== What license do I need for a BLP infobox image ==

What license of image do I need for a BLP infobox image? I believe it is CC0, but I want to confirm. I am looking at adding an image of this woman named [[Franziska Michor]], but when I restrict my searches of images to those in the public domain or free to use more generally it does not have any. There are lots of images of her though from [http://michorlab.dfci.harvard.edu/project/franziska-michor/ her own sites like this], can I use those in the same manner as I would upload a non-free book cover, film movie poster, or corporate logo? [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 13:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:The image simply needs to be compatible with Wikipedia's license, so CC0 works, as does CC BY-SA 4.0. For living persons, such an image can still be produced (by having someone take a photo of the subject and having the photographer release the photo), so any non-free content would fail the [[WP:NFCC#1|first non-free content criteria]] ({{tq|Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent...''could be created''}}, italics mine).
:Someone once found a free image for a subject by taking a screenshot of a YouTube video under a compatible license that the subject appeared in. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 13:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Oh so screenshots of YouTube videos, IF the YouTube video is CC0, is acceptable? What would I upload that as then? I am not familiar with uploading images of people/BLPs. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 13:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] Here are a couple of examples [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nicole_lecky_2018_1.jpg][https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matthew_Jordan_2023.jpg]. Such videos are rare, but they exist. That golf-video was a bit of a gold-mine. Any Commons-acceptable license is fine. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 13:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] The website you linked has a copyright sign at the bottom of the page, so that certainly can't be used. Sometimes it is worth emailing an article subject to ask them to place a suitable image (e.g. a [[selfie]]) on their website with an explicit CC BY license. Or, of course, they could upload one to Commons but that would be more of a hassle for them. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::That is an interesting idea. Seems like a lot of work though. I was just hoping to be able to learn the process to quickly upload something within the rules here. Maybe I will send an email though if that is the only way for things like this and I find some time. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 13:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, freely distributable knowledge is a lot of work ;) —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 06:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Reliability of Youtube ==

Is it possible to site specific YouTube videos as references if you are writing an article on a youtuber? [[User:Kalbome22|Kalbome22]] ([[User talk:Kalbome22|talk]]) 04:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:You can use YouTube if they are independent of the concerned individual and they are videos from reputable sources like news outlets, especially in cases where there are limited citations available. However, you can only add the youtuber's video as external links as citing their videos directly is not allowed. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 06:01, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::Editors are allowed to cite Youtube videos directly, see [[WP:VIDEOREF]] for more info :) [[user:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#70A67A">-- NotC</span><span style="color:#396340">hariza</span><span style="color:#0D2311">rd</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#0D2311">🗨</span>]]</sup> 06:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Kalbome22|Kalbome22]] See [[WP:BLPSPS]] and [[WP:BLPSELFPUB]]. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 08:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::Citing YouTube has come up repeatedly very recently at [[Steve Wallis]], where I'd been removing questionable information about the subject's departed wife (who cannot be found in reliable sources and who was never an integral part of the subject's regular work; only casually mentioned and rarely by name). '''[[User:StonyBrook|<span style="color: #617aa3">Stony</span><span style="color: darkblue;">Brook</span>]]''' <sub>[[User talk:StonyBrook|''babble'']]</sub> 07:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Kalbome22}} You are allowed to cite videos made by that YouTuber as primary sources under [[WP:BLPSELFPUB|BLPSELFPUB]]. Please make sure your usage of the videos follows that policy. [[User:QuicoleJR|QuicoleJR]] ([[User talk:QuicoleJR|talk]]) 14:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Barnstar ==

Hi,

I wish to award someone a [[Wikipedia:Barnstars|Barnstar]] for helping me out recently. Can I do it by myself.? or an admin decides it.? —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 00:54, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Perfectodefecto|Perfectodefecto]], Yes. You can award barnstars to other users. 🛧[[User:Midori No Sora|<span style="color:#32CCB9;text-shadow:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em #69CC77;">'''Midori No Sora♪'''</span>]]🛪 (<small>[[User talk:Midori No Sora|<span style="color:#0066cc;text-shadow:0.2em 0.1em 0.2em #ffcc00;"> '''☁＝☁＝✈'''</span>]]</small>) 02:02, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:barnstars are awards given by the community to signify something great. [[User:Stuuf7|Stuuf7]] ([[User talk:Stuuf7|talk]]) 02:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Perfectodefecto}} Nearly all barnstars are given by individual editors without discussion and it doesn't have to be for something great. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:You can add barnstar to a user's page by clicking on the 'love' icon on their page (works on desktop site) if you edit with  mobile, click on barnstar and add the template you want. 
:You will get a message like this 
:"Let's get started!
:Select the type of WikiLove you wish to send
:Add details to your WikiLove
:Send your WikiLove!" 
:I hope this helps! [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 08:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Perfectodefecto}} Depending on how helpful you think the edits are, you can award them with a Barnstar of your choice or a smaller award like a cookie or a kitten. There are no rules on who can award these. [[User:QuicoleJR|QuicoleJR]] ([[User talk:QuicoleJR|talk]]) 13:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::Got it. Thanks. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 14:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Should we stop using Wayback Machine and Internet Archive? ==

In light of recent developments in the U.S. court case ''[[Hachette v. Internet Archive]]'', should [[Wikipedians]] stop using [[Internet Archive]]? What about [[Wayback Machine]]? If so, should that stopping be limited to Wikipedians in the U.S. (like me)? [[User:Ss0jse|Ss0jse]] ([[User talk:Ss0jse|talk]]) 21:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:What about U.S. government web pages, or other public domain content? [[User:Ss0jse|Ss0jse]] ([[User talk:Ss0jse|talk]]) 21:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::I mean, what about using Wayback Machine archives of U.S. government web pages or of other public domain content? [[User:Ss0jse|Ss0jse]] ([[User talk:Ss0jse|talk]]) 21:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:A question on changing policies would be more suitable for policy over at the Village Pump, but I see no reason for this to have any effect on us here whatsoever. The case here was ''very specifically'' about controlled digital lending. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 22:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Okay. [[User:Ss0jse|Ss0jse]] ([[User talk:Ss0jse|talk]]) 14:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Simple tips ==

I am fairly new to the whole editing system for wikipedia and was wondering if i could get some tips and knowledge about editing a page [[User:Watersprinkler|Watersprinkler]] ([[User talk:Watersprinkler|talk]]) 08:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

: {{Ping|Watersprinkler}} Please see the links that were left on [[User talk:Watersprinkler|your talk page]], yesterday. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 08:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::New editors are strongly advised to put in time working to improve existing articles before essaying to create a new article (as you have started). Submitting a draft without reliable source references ([[WP:42]]) properly formated ([[Help:Referencing for beginners]]) would just waste a Reviewer's time. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::: {{Ping|David notMD}} I'm at a loss to understand why you're telling me this. Also, the OP explicitly asked about "editing a page". <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Andy: David possibly picked the wrong "Reply" and intended to reply to @[[User:Watersprinkler|Watersprinkler]]. Watersprinkler has indeed created a draft [[Draft:Black Souls]], after they posted here, but before David's reply. 
::::Watersprinkler, I echo what David says. You have started writing your draft by writing text, rather than by finding sources: that is doing it [[WP:BACKWARDS|BACKWARDS]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 17:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== AFD Question ==

how do i add a AFD such as [[2023 Halla Airlines Embraer Brasilia crash]] into the category [[:Category:AfD debates (Places and transportation)]]) after using twinkle to automate the AFD for me?&nbsp;[[User:Lolzer3000|Lolzer3000]] ([[User talk:Lolzer3000|talk]]) 18:50, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

:[[User:Lolzer3000|You]] tagged [[2023 Halla Airlines Embraer Brasilia crash]] for [[WP:PROD|proposed deletion]] or PROD, a totally different deletion process. At this point, my suggestion is to follow the instructions on the PROD banner on the article: {{tq|If this template is removed, '''[[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion#Nominating|do not replace it]]'''. The article may be deleted if this message remains in place for seven days, i.e., after 18:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)}} (formatting original). If someone else removes the template, then go to AfD. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 19:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

== Tag: "use of deprecated (unreliable) source" ==

Hi. Just curious: what conditions trigger the automatic tagging of edits with the above?<br />
Saw it on an edit that added [[Talk:Automated teller machine#"Hole in the wall"|a Talk section]]. The edit links to [https://dailymail.co.uk The Daily Mail], but not as a ref. [[User:.galenIgh|<span style="color:#008;font-style:italic">galenIgh</span>]] 12:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|.galenIgh}} It's done by an [[WP:edit filter|edit filter]]. For further background, see [[WP:RSP]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:The edit was tagged by [[Special:AbuseFilter/1132]] which currently includes:
{{ctop}}
:<code><nowiki>    dep3recated := "\b(sputniknews\.(africa|cn|com|in|lat|ru|uz)|armeniasputnik\.am|almanach\.be|sputnik\.(by|kz)|jacobite\.ca|ntdtv\.(ca|com(\.tw)?)|globaltimes\.cn|mintpressnews\.(cn|com|es|ru)|(thecradle|vibrantdot)\.co|epochtimes\.(co\.(il|kr)|com|cz|de|fr|it|ru|se)|(dailystar|mailpictures\.newsprints|mailplus|royalcentral|thescottishsun|thisismoney)\.co\.uk|thesun\.(co\.uk|ie|mobi)|(cracroftspeerage|dailymail|englishmonarchs|newsoftheworld|mailonsunday)\.co(\.uk|m)|(actualidad-rt|b(aike)?\.baidu|campaignlifecoalition|cgtn|checkyourfact|cinemos|crunchbase|dailycaller|dreamteamfc|epoch-archive|epochtimes-romania|frontpagemag|frontpagemagazine|glitchwave|huanqiu|lifenews|lifesitenews|mailonline\.pressreader|martinoticias|newsblaze|newsbreak|newsmax|newsmaxtv|nndb|nspirement|ntd|oann|occupydemocrats|okeefemediagroup|page3|projectveritas|rateyourmusic|republicworld|rt|secretchina|sonemic|sputnikglobe|sputnikmediabank|takimag|the-sun|theepochtimes|thegatewaypundit|thegrayzone|thepeerage|unz|urbandictionary|vdare|visiontimesjp|voiceofrussia|washingtonpress|wnd|worldnetdaily|worldstatesmen|zerohedge)\.com|visiontimes\.(com(\.au)?|fr)|baike\.baidu\.hk|(hispantv|presstv)\.(com|ir)|last\.fm\/|anna-news\.info|redfish\.media|(almayadeen|lifesite|royalark|telesur(english|tv)|trithucvn)\.net|(almanachdegotha|alternet|chivalricorders|jihadwatch|journal-neo|unz|voltairenet|worldstatesmen)\.org|epoch\.org\.il|(rt|sputnikportal)\.rs|(radiosputnik\.ria|russiatoday)\.ru|ruptly\.tv|sciencedirect\.com\/topics\/)";
</nowiki></code>
{{cbot}}
:[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:----
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]] @[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]]
:Thanks. Will go read up there. Seems over-eager, as it flagged a non-ref. [[User:.galenIgh|<span style="color:#008;font-style:italic">galenIgh</span>]] 18:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::It should probably only act on the Main, and maybe Draft: namespaes. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 19:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Those namespaces already have [[Special:AbuseFilter/869]] which also warns the user. [[Special:AbuseFilter/1132]] is a version which only tags the edit. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 19:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Why is it like this? ==

When I type a page title into the URL without a Wikipedia account, or click a [[redlink]], and that page doesn't exist, there's a link to search for it. But now that I made an account, there's nothing there except messages telling you how to create a draft, or how to edit in general. That doesn't help me (or most new users); it's too difficult to create a page, and sometimes we just searched for the wrong title. Can the admins please do something about this? [[User:My username can be whatever I want!|My username can be whatever I want!]] ([[User talk:My username can be whatever I want!|talk]]) 13:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, [[User:My username can be whatever I want!|My username can be whatever I want!]] That's not something that admins can change; it's a function of the Mediawiki software that Wikipedia runs on. However, the second bullet from the top contains the link to the search you're looking for; specifically, the line that says {{tq|You can also [[Special:Search/Redlink|search]] for an existing article to which you can redirect this title.}} The link in the word "search" is what you need. HTH, [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 13:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::[[File:Wikipedia redlink page.png|thumb]]
::@[[User:Writ Keeper|Writ Keeper]]
::#Okay, what's the group of people who can change it? Developers? It's different on [[:simple:redlink|Simple English Wikipedia]], so I know it can be changed.
::#The word "search" doesn't appear on the page at all. See the screenshot on the right.
::[[User:My username can be whatever I want!|My username can be whatever I want!]] ([[User talk:My username can be whatever I want!|talk]]) 14:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|My username can be whatever I want!}} The screenshot is from [[Wikipedia:New user landing page]] which is seen on the English Wikipedia by users who have accounts but are not [[WP:AUTOC|autoconfirmed]] which requires four days and ten edits. Last time we had this discussion it was not technically possible to add a search link but the software has changed and it may be possible now. I will look into it and may be able to do it myself today. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|My username can be whatever I want!}} I have added "You can also search for an existing article", where "search" is a link to a search on the page name.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:New_user_landing_page&diff=prev&oldid=1244344439] The necessary software change was [[phab:T204234]] which means that <code><nowiki>{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki></code> can now be used in the message. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] That's good. I compared the other page to this one. The other one says "Search for "Redlink" in existing articles." with the link on the words "search for redlink". This one now says "You can also search for an existing article." with the link on the word "search". I think this might be harder to understand, because someone wouldn't know that by clicking on the word "search", they would be led to search results for "redlink". Maybe that should be clarified. [[User:My username can be whatever I want!|My username can be whatever I want!]] ([[User talk:My username can be whatever I want!|talk]]) 16:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|My username can be whatever I want!}} I based it on the message seen on a [[redlink]] by logged in users who are [[WP:AUTOC|autoconfirmed]]: "You can also search for an existing article to which you can [[Help:Redirect|redirect]] this title." You have to be autoconfirmed to create a redirect so I omitted that part. You can post further suggestions to [[Wikipedia talk:New user landing page]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 16:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] I don't know about autoconfirmed, but I think that most of the time when someone goes to an page that doesn't exist, they don't want to redirect the title, they just want to search for the relevant page. Did you see what shows up on that page if you're logged out? [[User:My username can be whatever I want!|My username can be whatever I want!]] ([[User talk:My username can be whatever I want!|talk]]) 16:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|My username can be whatever I want!}} I saw that. I think it's rare to search for an article by manually modifying the url, and most registered users know that a red link means no page. I guess few of them will click it to search for the page name unless they already know it can be done and then they only need the search link. But this is getting beyond the Teahouse scope. [[Wikipedia talk:New user landing page]] is the place to discuss the message. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== system errors ==
I'M new to Ubuntu 22.04 I loaded it and worked great for a month then I got pages of errors when booting up, cant tell if it's memory. I have 32 gig of memory and 1 terabyte ssd drive any help would be welcome!! [[User:Northern mn rob|Northern mn rob]] ([[User talk:Northern mn rob|talk]]) 18:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:You're going to have to consult an Ubuntu or Linux forum, I'm afraid, since this is for questions on how to use or edit the English-language Wikipedia. Best of luck, [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 19:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Northern mn rob}} You can also try [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing]] if you want to use Wikipedia but we are a general encyclopedia. Maybe you saw one of our articles and thought it was a website about that subject. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Citations ==

How do I put a citation in an infobox? [[User:CallieCrewmanAuthor|CallieCrewmanAuthor]] ([[User talk:CallieCrewmanAuthor|talk]]) 22:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:CallieCrewmanAuthor|CallieCrewmanAuthor]] I dunno about anyone else, but I tend to make the citation in the visual editor, swap to source editing, find the citation I just made and then copy and paste it into the infobox either by finding where I want to place it in the source editor or by again swapping to visual editing and placing it into the infobox that way. It's a bit convoluted, but it works. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 22:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Haha. I do exactly the same. Does the job, but would like to know a better way (if any) from experience wikipedians. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 22:50, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|Waonderer}} That sounds like a decent way to handle it. If you want a similar experience to the Visual Editor's method of filling out a citation form, the source editor has something similar in the toolbar under "Cite > Templates", but it only supports the 4 most widely used citation templates. There is an optional gadget called [[Wikipedia:ProveIt|ProveIt]] that can support more citation templates in the source editor, but still not all of them. {{reply to|CallieCrewmanAuthor}} the reason that the solution is wonky/complicated is that the Visual Editor can't edit references or templates done within a template, and infoboxes are all made with templates. Almost all infoboxes are somehow calling [[Template:Infobox]]. If you look at the reference count in the Visual Editor and the actual article you'll notice that the articles usually have a few more references than what the editor shows; that's because the Visual Editor isn't rendering any of the references inside infoboxes or other templates. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 01:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|CallieCrewmanAuthor}} Please don't. Citations belong in the body of the article which the infobox should very briefly summarise. There should be nothing in the infobox (save an image) which is not in the body of the article. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:47, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are some specialist infoboxes which do have citations. For example, the featured article [[hydrogen]] has ten of them and many articles on chemicals and drugs at least one. [[Aspirin]] has nine. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC
:::Yes, there are a small number of infoboxes which are exceptions to my point; including some where the citation is auto-generated. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::When in doubt, I refer to articles marked as [[Wikipedia:Good articles|Good articles]] or [[Wikipedia:Featured articles|Featured articles]] for standards. How come there are good articles such as [[Narendra Modi]] and even featured article like [[Aston Martin Rapide]] have citations in their infobox? [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 16:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::: Because GA and FA processes have historically failed to address such matters, or to do so correctly. And perhaps the articles have been edited after such a status was achieved. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Makes sense. Thanks for answering. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 21:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Duplicating content between articles ==

Hello, I have recently been editing article [[Paul Boyton]], and expanded the section "Rivalry with Matthew Webb" by copying two paragraphs directly from the [[Matthew Webb]] article. I understand that this is allowed, and have read [[WP:COPYWITHIN]] (I actually wrote the original text in the Matthew Webb article), and I did it because it would be a waste of time to rewrite my own writing for a separate article.

But is this really best practice? I feel it is a bad idea to duplicate information across the wiki, but the subject is not notable enough for it's own article. [[User:It is a wonderful world|It is a wonderful world]] ([[User talk:It is a wonderful world|talk]]) 10:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:What "subject is not notable enough for it's ''[sic]'' own article"? [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 11:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::The subject of the duplicated content, titled "Rivalry with Matthew Webb". [[User:It is a wonderful world|It is a wonderful world]] ([[User talk:It is a wonderful world|talk]]) 11:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::You did the correct thing if you followed the copywithin guidance. There is no easy way to check whether given information is duplicated in multiple articles and in any case it often happens deliberately, e.g. where there is a {{tl|main}} article that's mentioned elsewhere. Some articles even deliberately transclude parts of other articles so that the two are kept in step. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you very much for clarifying [[User:It is a wonderful world|It is a wonderful world]] ([[User talk:It is a wonderful world|talk]]) 15:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::: There is a somewhat easy way, if one is familiar with [[Help:Searching|article search]]. Example: this search finds both articles:
:::: <code><span class=plainlinks>[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=%3A+insource%3A%22and+Boyton+got+off+to+a+very+fast+start%22&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1 "and Boyton got off to a very fast start"]</span></code>
::: The idea is to choose a fairly short, but unique phrase that would be highly unlikely to occur by chance, were it not for direct copying, and double-quote it in the search. But note that this was my third try, as two previous searches failed; I suspect you must have changed a few words around during the copy? Adding {{ping|Michael D. Turnbull|It is a wonderful world}}. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 21:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes I did change a few words. This is useful to know. Thanks. [[User:It is a wonderful world|It is a wonderful world]] ([[User talk:It is a wonderful world|talk]]) 22:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Sandbox cut and paste or move ==

If I wanted to edit a page by copying it to a sandbox should I finish my contribution by copy and pasting or by moving the sandbox to the page? [[User:Treetop-64bit|Treetop-64bit]] ([[User talk:Treetop-64bit|talk]]) 16:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Treetop-64bit|Treetop-64bit]] welcome to the Teahouse. Neither is really the right approach, and trying to move your sandbox to an existing page would not really work or be at all acceptable.
:What you would be better advised to do is to make piecemeal edits to the existing article, one paragraph at a time. Yes, you can work on those in your sandbox, then paste in the final text. But leave some time between each edit, and leave an [[WP:EDITSUMMARY]] explaining each one. That way, if another editor feels one of your edits is not really appropriate, you won't end up having all of your edits reverted - just the one causing an issue.
:Now, if you genuinely believe an article is in such a dire state that it really needs to be blown up and started all over again, it would be a very sensible idea to first raise your concerns on the article's talk page, explaining what you propose to do, and why. Give it a few days for others to respond. Then, working in your sandbox, you should return and link to it in the thread about reworking the article and give time for others to view your alternative wording and offer their opinions. A week maybe.  
:I strongly suspect that if you were simply to replace an article wholesale, you'd end up finding one or more editors object and simply revert all your work. The more contentious the topic, the more likely that revert is to happen. So, working slowly, one section at a time would make the most sense.
:Perhaps you could tell us what article you are concerned about? Regards, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 21:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::I'm not really concerned about any article I just felt a bit uncertain about using the sandbox for making changes, Thank you for your help! [[User:Treetop-64bit|Treetop-64bit]] ([[User talk:Treetop-64bit|talk]]) 23:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

== Rename page that is just a redirect ==

[[Statutory city (Minnesota)]] is listed on the disambiguation page of [[Statutory city]] but redirects to [[General-law municipality]], but other states in the U.S. have statutory cities and towns, including [[Government of Colorado#Local government|Colorado]]. Statutory city (Minnesota) should be renamed "Statutory city (United States)". I don't know how to do this or suggest this, other than [[Talk: General-law municipality]]. [[User:Seananony|Seananony]] ([[User talk:Seananony|talk]]) 02:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hey [[User:Seananony|Seananony]]. I'd recommend creating [[Statutory city (United States)]] as a redirect to [[General-law municipality]]. You may also want to change the target of [[Statutory city (Minnesota)]] so that it goes to the section about Minnesota, though I haven't looked into the content at all and maybe that'd be less helpful. At the dab page, I'd swap in your new redirect for the Minnesota one. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 02:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== citation  ==

hello there, im trying to get used to editing on wikipedia and i ve been editing with the automated recommended articles by wikipedia. however it is now recommending me to raise the difficulty and start working on citing better the articles. i was wondering if anyone has an effecient way of doing so, as it takes me more than an hour to find good citation for an article, read it and paraphrase it on wiki. thank you <3 [[User:Psixtras|Psixtras]] ([[User talk:Psixtras|talk]]) 14:01, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, Psixtras, and welcome to the Teahouse. If there were a quick and easy way to find and summarise sources, then we wouldn't have so many poor articles, I'm afraid. That is, precisely, the bulk of the work in creating an article. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello {{u|Psixtras}}, at the risk of missing the point, I mostly look up sources for subjects where I would be glad to better understand them regardless of anything I write here. Then writing content on Wikipedia almost feels like a justification for spending three hours reading about long-dead pirates.{{pb}}One thing I will say may help with efficiency: expect previous editors to have made mistakes. If the article says X and the reliable source says Y, go ahead and make the change with an explanation in the edit summary. It can be a huge time-sink sometimes to try and find a source backing up claims that turn out to be bogus. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 04:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Confusing article ==

Hi, I have inserted the info. at [[ICC Awards#ICC Development Awards]] as per the suggestion. But, I found that maximum section of the article, starting from [[ICC Awards#Men's awards]] require serious changes as it looks very confusing, for example ''Decade Awards''. 
I fixed a few of them, but, couldn't fix all as I have no idea about how to arrange these things properly. If anyone knows how to fix these, do it. Thanks. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 16:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi {{U|Perfectodefecto}}, when you want help improving an article, the best place to request that is on the talk pages of the WikiProjects listed on the article's talkpage. In this case that would be [[WP:WikiProject Awards]], [[WP:WikiProject Cricket]], and [[WP:WikiProject Women's sport]]. Please post your help request on the talkpages of those projects. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:12, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Got it. Thanks.
::By the way, I have made some necessary changes. Now, it is ok. —[[User:Perfectodefecto|<span style="color: black">𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨</span>]]([[User talk:Perfectodefecto|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔]]) 04:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Need help with template ==
Hi! I am trying to add 3 parameters ("close", "destroyed" and "demolished") to [[Template:Infobox urban feature]], but I'm not sure how to do that, and probably need some help before I break the entire template. Thanks! :) [[User:Sir MemeGod|'''Sir MemeGod :D''']] <small>([[User talk:Sir MemeGod|talk]] - [[Special:Contribs/Sir MemeGod|contribs]] - [[User:Sir MemeGod/Creations|created articles]])</small> 12:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
* Also, to clarify, I ''did'' add the parameters on there, but they just aren't popping up on the infobox itself (see [[Austin J. Tobin Plaza]]). [[User:Sir MemeGod|'''Sir MemeGod :D''']] <small>([[User talk:Sir MemeGod|talk]] - [[Special:Contribs/Sir MemeGod|contribs]] - [[User:Sir MemeGod/Creations|created articles]])</small> 13:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::Hi [[User:Sir MemeGod|Sir MemeGod]]. You have only edited the documentation at [[Template:Infobox urban feature/doc]] and not the actual template. Maybe you used the edit link next to "Template documentation" on [[Template:Infobox urban feature]] but it goes to the documentation page. Use the edit tab at top to edit the template itself. If you don't know how then you could post a suggestion to the talk page and ping Alaney2k who made the template in 2010 but is still active. Three new parameters for the end may be a bit much. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 13:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|Sir MemeGod}} That worked;[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_urban_feature&diff=1244173818&oldid=1108674066] the parameters are now in the actual template. I've just made [[Template:Infobox urban feature/sandbox]] and [[Template:Infobox urban feature/testcases]]. You can use the sandbox (on any template) to test new features before putting them into live articles. You can then make comparisons on the testcases page. It's not always necessary, but it helped me a lot when I was figuring things out. Check out this edit to the sandbox:[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_urban_feature%2Fsandbox&diff=1244446702&oldid=1244445986] New parameters should be added down there. [[Module:Check for unknown parameters]] is pretty commonly used in templates. It creates a maintenance category for pages using templates with bogus parameters, often typos like "loctaion" and so on. Good luck! [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 04:57, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help identifying unreliable sources ==

Regarding [[Draft:Kimberly Weinberger]], it was declined for not being supported by [[reliable sources]]. After double checking, I am having issues deciding which sources are not reliable, and if the draft was only declined for that reason. I have contacted the reviewer on this matter but have not heard back, and I'd like further opinions. [[User:Filmforme|Filmforme]] ([[User talk:Filmforme|talk]]) 19:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Filmforme}}. To me, the problem is not so much the reliability of the sources, although I have my doubts about a few of them. The problem that I see is that most of the sources do not devote [[WP:SIGCOV|significant coverage]] to Weinberger. They amount to [[Wikipedia:Trivial mentions|trivial mentions]] of Weinberger, and those passing mentions of Weinberger contribute nothing to establishing her notability. So, which of your references are clearly reliable, fully independent of Weinberger, and devote truly significant coverage to her as a person instead of productions that she has been a part of? [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 20:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] thanks for the response. [https://www.villagelife.com/entertainment/murder-mystery-on-stage-with-and-then-there-were-none/article_877686fe-a444-57ef-a1f9-d7f51eaa5669.html 1] I am aware I will need more significant and independent sources that go in depth, but of the references cited, I am curious which you have doubts about the reliability. I got the same alert for [[Draft:Raye Richards]] too. [[User:Filmforme|Filmforme]] ([[User talk:Filmforme|talk]]) 18:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I have doubts about the reliability of Horror Society, Loud and Clear, Morbidly Beautiful, Trinity Theater Company and the Daily Aztec. In my view, it is best to stick with impeccably reliable sources for establishing notability. What do you think are the best reliable independent sources that devote significant coverage to Weinberger? [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 21:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::As for the referencing of Raye Richards, that is really bad. Quality is ''vastly'' more important than quantity. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 21:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] [https://www.villagelife.com/entertainment/murder-mystery-on-stage-with-and-then-there-were-none/article_877686fe-a444-57ef-a1f9-d7f51eaa5669.html This is the best source] I've found for Weinberger so far. The Trinity Theater Company was one I was questioning too. I found Horror Society at [[WP:WikiProject Horror/Sources]]. And double checking I see that Morbidly, Loud and Clear and [[Daily Aztec]] are outlets that assign coverage through an editor or an editorial board.
:::::As for Richards, I've had success with quantity at [[WP:AFC]] before, though not very often. I'll usually include the best citations in the lead, but in this case, a previous reviewer had declined it. So I'm left confused about it while looking for more. [[User:Filmforme|Filmforme]] ([[User talk:Filmforme|talk]]) 22:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{u|Filmforme}}, one of our most important policies is [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]], which says {{tpq|Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources}}, and that is why I am being firm. Let's take a look at what you say is your best source, the article in ''Village Life'', a hyper-local publication serving the unincorporated community of [[El Dorado Hills, California]], which I happen to know quite well. This is not even a review of the high school play in question, since it was published before the play was first performed at that school. Basically, it is a tiny local publication promoting the local high school theater production. In no way is it an independent source because it quotes Weinberger three times. It is basically an interview combined with an  upcoming event listing, complete with performance dates, ticket prices and a phone number to call. It actually includes the names of 19 local people who helped build the sets. Many editors believe that "attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not necessarily an indication of notability". 

::::::On to the ''Horror Society'' source. In my view, if a local Wikiproject says a source is reliable, that is just the opinion of a small group of people. A communitywide assessment at [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard]] is the only way to state with confidence that a source is reliable. But there is no need to pursue that, because in addition to being reliable, a source must devote significant coverage to the topic, and all that source says about Weinberger is {{tpq|Other cast members include Savannah Porter, Alex Chernow, Kimberly Weinberger and Sutheshna Mani}}. That is a trivial passing mention and pretty much the opposite of significant coverage, even more so since it is discussing a future production. Worthless for establishing notability. 

::::::The Trinity Theater Company source is clearly not independent since she was an actress with that theater company, and theater companies routinely promote their productions and actors. Fully independent sources are required to establish notability.

::::::The ''Daily Aztec'' source is a student run college newspaper, and many editors believe that such a source cannot be used to establish the notability of students or faculty, since such papers exist in large part to promote student and campus activities. But there is no need to delve too deeply, since this review of a campus film festival devotes just four sentences to the film she was in, and the words "Kimberly Weinberger" appear nowhere in those four sentences. Egregiously, that reference is used to support the claim in the "Accolades" section that she won an award, although the source mentions neither the award nor Weinberger. Frankly, that is bizarre.

::::::The coverage in ''Loud and Clear'' consists of a single sentence, {{tpq|Kimberly Weinberger is very impressive as Rosie and managed to successfully deliver even the weakest lines of the film, making us root for her character from the very beginning to the very end of the movie}}. That is nice but is not significant coverage. 

::::::The coverage of Weinberger in ''Morbidly Beautiful'' consists of a single sentence, {{tpq|Our protagonist, Rosie (Kimberly Weinberger), binds this film together, giving a very strong performance}}. That is nice but is not significant coverage. It is a passing mention.

::::::In conclusion, the references that you have provided to date fail to establish that Weinberger is a [[WP:NACTOR|notable actor]] as Wikipedia defines that term. As I said earlier, quality is vastly more important than quantity. Four or five outstanding sources are dramatically better than 14 mediocre sources. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:09, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] Thanks for the insight and bringing my attention to the noticeboard, I will look at that further. I was under the impression that quotes are allowed as long a journalist or reporter is writing significantly more than what is quoted in their own words.
:::::::As for the rest, I think you misunderstood. I am aware none of those articles are significant coverage, I just wanted to know about the reliability of them. Weinberger's name is at the bottom of the Daily Aztec, but their alias is "Kimmy Weinberger" on that article. Typos and different name spellings has not made it easy to track down further sourcing, but I do what I can. Thank you for your help, I appreciate it. –[[User:Filmforme|Filmforme]] ([[User talk:Filmforme|talk]]) 05:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::They aren't sources, so it doesn't even make sense to ask if they're reliable. Think of it this way: would those be considered reliable sources if the article was about me? Of course not, they're not writing about me, right? But they're not writing about Kimberly Weinberger either. That's the problem – she needs to be the main topic, not a mention or a participant. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 05:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== scans of software boxes ==

i am deep into documenting vintage software. i would like to add scans of the box cover. is that allowed? [[User:Smilesdavis2024|Smilesdavis2024]] ([[User talk:Smilesdavis2024|talk]]) 08:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Smilesdavis2024|Smilesdavis2024]] Welcome to Teahouse! Covers are usually copyrighted, so cannot be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons and instead should be uploaded to English Wikipedia with limited use. This likely would be allowed under [[WP:NFCC]] fair use similar to [[Wikipedia:Upload/Non-free album cover]]. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 09:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Right hand sidebar cannot be closed without JavaScript? ==

I use a 14 year old phone that cannot run JavaScript. I prefer to use old Vector but as I have to manually append the use skin param to every url to do so, sometimes I skip it. In new Vector, the right hand sidebar cannot be closed. It has no contents. It takes up over a third of the phone screen. Any way to fix this? Registering is not an option. [[Special:Contributions/216.80.78.194|216.80.78.194]] ([[User talk:216.80.78.194|talk]]) 06:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Please explain why registering an account is not an option. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 06:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::To my POV, reading articles and discussions is a win for the volunteers, who deserve all the love. Registration is a win for the WMF, who deserve nothing in exchange for their greed, deceit and mishandling of assets. They have not earned my username. [[Special:Contributions/216.80.78.194|216.80.78.194]] ([[User talk:216.80.78.194|talk]]) 06:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Registering doesn't benefit WMF. But it benefits other volunteers, who know that you are the same person you were yesterday. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 05:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, 14 year old phones are not really supported. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 06:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::Alright. Thanks anyhow. Will just deal with the single columns of text and squished tables. Wish the devs had stuck to their standards of a Mediawiki that works without JavaScript. (Don't ask me to find the diff from here, I can't even run autocorrect anymore and these two replies took about 15 minutes.) [[Special:Contributions/216.80.78.194|216.80.78.194]] ([[User talk:216.80.78.194|talk]]) 07:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, registering an account is a win for you, your privacy and your user experience. The WMF does not care a whit about whether or not you register. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:For those who may come across this later, I solved the issue by blocking the entire right hand column with an ad blocker rule. While I hate to deprive you all of another opportunity to treat an IP as subhuman, the issue of registration was not a properly formatted RFC, let alone an RFC/U. And no, I am nobody's sock. I've been reading your talk pages mostly quietly since 2006. Ta. [[Special:Contributions/216.80.78.194|216.80.78.194]] ([[User talk:216.80.78.194|talk]]) 13:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== help to make the article named oviul maruf ==

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Oviul_maruf?redirect=no [[User:Hamasnigar|Hamasnigar]] ([[User talk:Hamasnigar|talk]]) 13:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Your draft here [[Draft:Oviul Maruf]] and here [[Oviul maruf]] has been rejected there is zero indication that the person meets the Wikipedia criteria of a [[WP:GNG|notable person]].  [[User:Theroadislong|Theroadislong]] ([[User talk:Theroadislong|talk]]) 14:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== At the end of the Sam Nujoma article, a source cites a film as "epic film". ==

I am talking about this article; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Nujoma. Am I unaware of what exactly a "epic" film is? [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:I meant to say at the "book and film" section. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 17:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::ok, thanks [=D [[User:Jude marrero|Jude Marrero \&#61;D]] ([[User talk:Jude marrero|talk]]) 17:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Are you going to change it? [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::see [[Epic film]] for contextual meaning [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 18:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:It probably refers to the genre of [[Epic film]]. [[User:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span>]] ([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby|contribs]]) 18:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::oh, just seemed a bit strange to me to call a film "epic". But oh well. [[User:Adam P. Larry|Adam P. Larry]] ([[User talk:Adam P. Larry|talk]]) 18:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I can imagine! 
:::But, it's a genre of movie focused on heroic character. See the previous links shared. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 18:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::That word probably now gets used more often for its slang meaning than for any of the other meanings, so I can't blame you – but the other meanings are still good in an encyclopedia. And '''most''' of the old official meanings are a lot like the slang meaning anyway! (The original was the name for the type of ancient Greek poems that includes the Odyssey, and pretty much all the other meanings are just borrowing the fact that those poems have larger-than-life characters in a long highly dramatic story.) [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 14:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== An apology  ==

Graham87 was wrongfully block me by mistake. I didn't disrupt and abuse editing on Wikipedia. I am innocent of any wrongdoings. I'm behaving appropriately. I didn't cause any trouble. Please believe me. I want to apologize. [[Special:Contributions/108.21.67.83|108.21.67.83]] ([[User talk:108.21.67.83|talk]]) 03:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:This IP address is not blocked. What is the username of your  blocked account? [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 04:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::I would like to explain about my good results. [[Special:Contributions/108.21.67.83|108.21.67.83]] ([[User talk:108.21.67.83|talk]]) 04:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Again, what is the username of your blocked account? Please answer. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 04:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I think this might be regards [[User_talk:108.21.67.83]], rather than a blocked ''account'' - based on similar language. -- [[User:DandelionAndBurdock|D'n'B]]-''[[User_talk:DandelionAndBurdock|t]]'' -- 04:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I need you to report the user Graham87 has committed vandalize the articles and disrupting. He will not longer editing anymore because he violated the terms on Wikipedia. Ban the Graham87. Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/108.21.67.83|108.21.67.83]] ([[User talk:108.21.67.83|talk]]) 05:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::A Chris80 which I no longer use since I was block indefinitely because I never vandalized nor disrupt editing in 2018 for the past 6 years. I'm sorry. Because I already have my old account is A Chris80 for which I don't remember the password for login in. I came to apologize for my past wrongdoings. That is never happened again. I respect that.  [[Special:Contributions/108.21.67.83|108.21.67.83]] ([[User talk:108.21.67.83|talk]]) 05:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::If you are, in fact, the user behind A Chris80, then this is definitely a good block. A block is a block of ''you'', not just the account that you are using. Every edit you've made since the block in April 2018, using any account or IP address, on any computer, anywhere in the world, is textbook block evasion. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 05:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Courtesy ping to {{ping|Graham87}} I can't help but notice is says on this IP's user talk that they are blocked, but they are still making edits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -- [[User:DandelionAndBurdock|D'n'B]]-''[[User_talk:DandelionAndBurdock|t]]'' -- 05:46, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Fixed. Wow, seems like I posted the notice but forgot to do the actual block ... and thanks to that we've worked out that it was real block evasion all along, as I suspected. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 07:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::[[ticket:2024090710005359]] [[User:Cabayi|Cabayi]] ([[User talk:Cabayi|talk]]) 16:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Merged sources ==

Hello! I'm trying to figure out how to merge references using the visual editor. I tried to use multiref and multiref2, but am not sure how to generate a text-based citation, of a website, to put into the different inputs. I can see what other people have done and type everything manually, but I hope there's a better way! Thanks for your time [[User:Placeholderer|Placeholderer]] ([[User talk:Placeholderer|talk]]) 16:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Placeholderer}}. Every editor has their own workflow and if you read [[WP:REFBEGIN|Referencing for beginners]], you can learn about various methods of creating and improving references. I have been editing for 15 years and the visual editor didn't even exist back then, so I use the source editor on the desktop site operating on my smart phone. That gives me the precise level of control that I prefer. I use [[Wikipedia:Citation templates]] to ensure consistent formatting and I use the [[WP:REFNAME|named reference]] functionality to deal with duplicates. I have all the most common templates in my userspace, formatted just the way I like. It it not so much typing them manually as a series of cuts and pastes. I have created many thousands of references that way and I am sure of their accuracy instead of relying on a software tool. For me, that's the best way but you need to find your own best way. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Placeholderer}}, the Visual Editor will treat any citation that begins with "<code>{{</code>" as if it contains a single citation template. The Visual Editor also will not use the "Insert:&lt;template>" dialog for templates called within templates. The third option at [[Wikipedia:CITEBUNDLE]], "Use a bullet list", would allow you to use the "Insert:&lt;template>" dialog in the visual editor for each of the bundled citations, because it does not begin with "<code>{{</code>" or wrap the citation templates within another template. The Visual Editor has been around for a while, but it still has a lot of small limitations like this, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 04:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:What I tend to do is make multiple VE references all in a line, then open SE and cut out the extraneous ref tags. You can generate new "bibliography entries" in SE, which will create the citation template without the ref tags, or you can generate new refs all in a line and then delete the extra ref tags that way too, I guess. But I prefer the citation generator that VE has, and I really, really prefer being able to one-click highlight a footnote to be able to move it around, so I tend to work in VE and then just swap back to SE to tinker with references in ways VE doesn't allow for. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 16:40, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Draft:Divyansh Dwivedi ==

* {{courtesy link|Draft:Divyansh Dwivedi}}

The draft got declined. Need help in editing [[User:Adwivedi78|Adwivedi78]] ([[User talk:Adwivedi78|talk]]) 10:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:I am trying to draft a page for  Divyansh Dwivedi, a child actor who has appreared in multiple TV shows and web series in India. He has also appreared in various news channels for his talent.
:I am looking for a volunteer who can help me in getting his page approved and published on wikipedia. [[User:Adwivedi78|Adwivedi78]] ([[User talk:Adwivedi78|talk]]) 10:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Adwivedi78|Adwivedi78]] Teahouse hosts and others who help here like to advise on general issues but rarely get involved in co-writing articles. At a brief glance, your text {{tq|His impactful character in web series Mirzapur season 1 was highly appreciated. He also played a very important role in another web series}} immediately poses the questions "Who said his character was impactful?", "Who appreciated it" and who decided the role was "important"? If these are quotes, then you need to source them and if they are your own opinion, you need to remove them. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::ponit taken. Thanks [[User:Adwivedi78|Adwivedi78]] ([[User talk:Adwivedi78|talk]]) 11:40, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I am not looking for assistance in Co-writing, instead I want to understand where I am going wrong in writing this article and how this can get approved. I'm new in this space, hence seeking help. [[User:Adwivedi78|Adwivedi78]] ([[User talk:Adwivedi78|talk]]) 11:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Do you have an association with this actor? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 12:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::It is very difficult to succeed in writing an artlce here without first familiarizing yourself with Wikipedia's policies. Please take note of the helpful advice and links on your talk page, and also [[WP:Your first article]].[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 13:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Refs must be incorporated into text. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 18:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Wikipedia page for a journal ==

Hi
I recently created a wikipedia page for a research journal that my supervisor asked me to do. He is one of the editors in the journal. We contacted the journal office and the editor in chief to get their permission. After I created the page, I received message that it was falgged for speedy deletion due to unambiguous copyright infringement. I cannot modify the language too much as it is about the journal and I have to copy it from the journal webpage. Also I received message that I have an undisclosed financial stake in promoting a topic. This is not true. How to fix this. The page has been deleted.

thanks [[User:Kshitijsri82|Kshitijsri82]] ([[User talk:Kshitijsri82|talk]]) 12:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:For a rather detailed explanation of why we can't just import text from anywhere else, including that journal webpage, see [[WP:COPYOTHERS]] (the entire page may be of interest, but this is the specific section). The person who wrote that text (probably) owns the copyright, and we unfortunately cannot use it without permission.
:While you may not get paid, you do appear to have what we call a conflict of interest. Please read [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest]].
:You can see the [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Blood_Transfusion_(journal) reason given for the deletion here]: {{tq|Unambiguous [[WP:CV|copyright infringement]] of https://www.bloodtransfusion.it/bt/libraryFiles/downloadPublic/4 -- [[WP:CLOP]] close paraphrasing}}
:Thank you, [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

::The journal staff gave me permission to make a wikipedia page for the journal. The page is about the journal and thus will have information from the journal website itself.
::I have published in the journal and have reviewed for it a couple of times but I am not part of the journal staff (the editors and reviewers are not paid for the review work). [[User:Kshitijsri82|Kshitijsri82]] ([[User talk:Kshitijsri82|talk]]) 13:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::There is a procedure to get permission to use copyrighted works, see [[WP:PERMISSION]]. But it may be best to start fresh, without any possible copyright infringement. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks [[User:Kshitijsri82|Kshitijsri82]] ([[User talk:Kshitijsri82|talk]]) 13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::It may be wise to check [[WP:NJOURNAL]] to see if it would be considered [[WP:NOTABLE]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|Kshitijsri82}} Wikipedia editors (including you) do not need permission from the journal publisher or its editorial staff write about it; and they have no say in what we write about it. You may find [[WP:BOSS]] useful. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 14:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{reply|Kshitijsri82}} The journal staff giving ''you'' permission to use material doesn't mean diddly squat, because ''you'' aren't the publisher of any article on Wikipedia. The Wikimedia Foundation is the publisher of Wikipedia articles. Therefore, the Wikimedia Foundation, not you, requires permission to publish the material. And that permission cannot be granted by the say-so of some random Wikipedia account, but by verifiable communication from the copyright holder releasing the material. ''And'', the material ''must'' be released under an acceptable free license; the journal cannot reserve "all rights" as is typical. See [[WP:CONSENT]] for details.
:This is why it's better to start from scratch and don't use anyone else's words. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 23:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, Kshitijsri82, and welcome to the Teahouse. 
:Apart from the issues of copyright others have mentioned, you should understand that {{HD/WINI}} This means that hardly any material published by the journal is of any relevance at all to an article about the journal, so the legality of copying text from its website rarely need arise. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== My article on Wikipedia page was deleted  ==

My article was deleted and I was not happy with it, it took me more 7 hours to write it down [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 22:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]], a sample:
::The prestigious '''Titans of Tech Awards''' was established to [https://itpulse.com.ng/2023/07/24/zoho-parallex-bank-vertiv-others-win-big-at-titans-of-tech-africa-awards/ celebrate and acknowledge] the accomplishments of tech visionaries in [[Nigeria]], Africa and the Global Tech Space. / It is the authoritative yardstick to measure performance in the [https://thesun.ng/zoho-technologies-african-data-centres-others-shine-at-titans-of-tech-awards/ ICT sector] in the African continent.
:Let's start with the second word. What are the grounds for saying that it's "prestigious"? What's the purpose of saying that it's "prestigious"? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::i don’t have any bad in mind or a hope of doing promotions for the brand, Wikipedia would have given me a chance to edit or do some corrections to me . It hurt me that article that I used 7 hours to write was deleted [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 23:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::Please if you will help me and do some change and upload it back I will appreciate that, all the information you need is online [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 23:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Hello, Officaillychibuzor. Please read [[WP:NOTPROMO]] and [[WP:BOSS]] carefully. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

=== Please can someone help me and publish article here ? ===

Why I’m asking if someone will help me to publish article here is that the one i published it was deleted [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 23:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]], please don't start a second topic. You can keep responding in the one you started above this one. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 23:23, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::Okey I have heard you [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 23:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:No, and for three reasons. First, [[Draft:Titans of Tech Awards]] is terrible. Secondly, I have no reason to believe that you would improve it if allowed to do so. (You seem to expect that others will do this.) Thirdly (and a new discovery): [[Draft:Titans of Tech Awards]] was first created by "[[User:Samsonfriday526|Samsonfriday526]]", who's blocked as an illicit alternative ID for "[[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Johnken21/Archive|Johnken21]]", who's blocked. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Okey, it fine can you guide me on how to create successful Wikipedia articles without been deleted [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 01:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::[[Draft:Titans of Tech Awards]] has been Rejected and Speedy Deleted. If you try again, very likely your account will be indefinitely blocked and the topic 'salted', meaning that it would require an Administrator's approval for anyone to try again. If you intend to contribute to Wikipedia, start with working to improve existing articles. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 02:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Officaillychibuzor}}, since I am an administrator, I can read your deleted draft. There is not a single sentence in it that is not overtly promotional, and promotion, advertising, marketing and public relations behaviors are not permitted on Wikipedia. You complain that you spent seven hours writing unacceptable content that got deleted. Your time would have been better spent if you read our core  content policy, the [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] for seven minutes, and you could have saved six hours and 53 minutes. The general life principle is do not waste your time trying to play a very complicated and serious game without studying the rules first. Defeat is pretty much guaranteed. This is the #7 website on Planet Earth, and you need to know what you are doing to be successful here. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I never have an a ideas to promote the brand I I’m just writing what I know about the brand, but it fine please can you help me and edit in Wikipedia standard so that I will not repeat the work again from the bringing and if possible can I retrieve the original article and edit it again [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 07:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] [[WP:BACKWARD]] might be of help to you. Your first (not only) hurdle with with creating a WP-article is finding the sources that meets the demands of [[WP:N]]. If those don't exist on a subject, you can't make a WP-article on that subject. For example, this [https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/08/maggie-peters-gets-into-titans-of-tech-hall-of-fame/] ''mentions'' ToT, but it doesn't tell us much about it. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 10:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I don’t know if I can share my WhatsApp number here for you to explain more to me because I don’t get it all, during the article you can see that the article I publish about the brand has all the Wikipedia requirements to be published but it was not, if there is a mistake they should be a people that will make the correction and published it, please in case you need my WhatsApp number you can tell me because I don’t mind given it out [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 10:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Hello again, Officaillychibuzor. Nobody here is interested in your WhatsApp number. It is unlikely that anyobdy here will communicate with you in any  way other than on this page and other similar (project or talk) pages of Wikipedia. 
::::::::{{HD/WINI}}
::::::::If you want to create an article on that prize, you '''begin''' by finding places where people wholly unconnected with the prize have chosen to publish substantial material about it in reliable places. If you can't find any such sources, then you stop wasting your own and other people's time, and choose a different subject. If you can find several such sources, then you forget everything you personally know about the subject, and write a neutral summary of what those sources say. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}{{u|Officaillychibuzor}}, do ''not'' post any personal contact information here. Wikipedia does not work that way. Just read and study [[WP:YFA|Your first article]] and the [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] and do the work yourself. We are here to give advice, not to write the article for you. When you write {{tpq|all the Wikipedia requirements to be published}}, you are wrong. Wikipedia does not publish overtly promotional content. That is simply not going to happen. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:08, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

=== I want to create a new article but my dashboard has change  ===

I want to create new article but when I enter a place to create new draft to submit the dashboard have change what is the problem [[User:Officaillychibuzor|Officaillychibuzor]] ([[User talk:Officaillychibuzor|talk]]) 08:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:Your attempts at creating an article have been deleted as blatant promotion. You have also flooded help pages with questions- please ask one question in one place at a time, to avoid duplicating effort. You should learn more about Wikipedia before attempting the very difficult task of creating a new article, please use the [[WP:ADVENTURE|new user tutorial]] and spend time editing existing articles in areas that interest you first, to learn how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content.
:If you are associated with these awards, that must be disclosed, see [[WP:COI]] and [[WP:PAID]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:00, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Email error ? ==

Your edit has triggered an automated filter and has been disallowed. It looks like you're trying to add an email address to this page. Doing that, especially with a personal email address, is usually a bad idea as it can attract large amounts of spam. Though there are a few legitimate reasons to include an email address, in most cases Wikipedia will remove email addresses that are added to articles or discussion pages.
If you want to communicate with a particular user via email, Wikipedia has a built-in email function you can use. If you would like to request general assistance, the fastest way is usually to post a question at the Help Desk. Wikipedia also provides a guide to asking for help — including via email — if you feel that is necessary.
If you are attempting to add a link to a Mastodon account, and this filter is preventing you from doing so, please do not file a false positive report. Instead, please follow the instructions at Template:Mastodon user to add a link to the account. If you are experiencing trouble using the template, please visit the Teahouse for assistance in doing so. If you believe you received this message in error, you may report it here.

I have got this error and i dont think i have mentioned any email as so.. Whats the fix to this error ? [[User:HarmonyHubber|HarmonyHubber]] ([[User talk:HarmonyHubber|talk]]) 15:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:Erasing all the @ signs you can find may help. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you helped me alot [[User:HarmonyHubber|HarmonyHubber]] ([[User talk:HarmonyHubber|talk]]) 15:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|HarmonyHubber}} The filter only applies to users with less than 100 edits. I have linked [[BHK Bhalla@Halla.Kom]] in your sandbox.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:HarmonyHubber/sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=1244588357] If you get problems later then you may have to remove the link again or ask an experienced user to make the link. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== About autocomplete ==

Hi.I wanted to ask a question about Wikipedia autocomplete. Usually when we write stuff on Wikipedia search bar, after writing a word an autocomplete appears. There are certain articles that are less popular and not significant that will appear on the autocomplete. Is there a way to alter the autocomplete in such a way that these article suggestions will not appear when we write a word on the search bar[[User:Knightknight12345|Knightknight12345]] ([[User talk:Knightknight12345|talk]]) 14:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:One of the really good features of Wikipedia is it shows topics that are in any way related to each other. That includes rivals and people who famously don't like each other or are opponents on some issue. People want to read about someone's rivals, and they want to read about the other side of the issue. And if "the other side of the issue" is actually well known to be a trash argument that doesn't make any sense, we want Wikipedia to come out and say that it is.
:Which articles are you talking about? [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 14:57, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:... and if you mean something appears that's really really irrelevant to your topic, just let it keep showing up. People need to be able to search for that other thing! (It would be insane to make a certain article non-findable.) Nobody owns article titles or search bar results. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:No. We don't use an algorithmic search based on popularity anywhere as far as I am aware. If a particular article really ''shouldn't'' be coming up, because it actually has the wrong title in the first place, you could suggest it for renaming at [[WP:RM]]. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 16:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Autocomplete suggestions are controlled by the software, not the editors. There is no way to disallow an existing page. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== No page creation restrictions! ==

where can I ask that the page creation rectrictions be removed? [[Special:Contributions/2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69|2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69]] ([[User talk:2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69|talk]]) 23:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:There are different types of page creation restrictions. What do you have in mind? [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:For an anonymous IP address, page creation restrictions cannot be changed. If you want to create a page, you can create a draft and submit it for review. See [[WP:AFC]] for instructions. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 00:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::No, but where can i make a proposal for the removal of anonymous IP address page creation restrictions [[Special:Contributions/2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69|2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69]] ([[User talk:2603:8001:6940:2100:8A58:E42:3ACF:9A69|talk]]) 00:21, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Well, there's [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)]], but don't even try, you would be wasting the community's time. There are good reasons why, which have evolved over the decades Wikipedia has been running. If you want to create an article, follow the instructions at [[WP:AFC]]. Otherwise, create an account and get enough activity to get autoconfirmed, and you can create pages, but as a new contributor it's still a good idea to use [[WP:AFC]] and submit drafts for review.
:::What possible reason would an anonymous IP address have to create a page directly rather than via the process already available? ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 00:36, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== I want to know how weather works ==

OK please tell me how it works [[Special:Contributions/132.147.192.240|132.147.192.240]] ([[User talk:132.147.192.240|talk]]) 01:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
: Check out the article [[Weather]].  If you still have questions ask at [[WP:Reference Desk]].  The Teahouse is for asking questions on how to use Wikipedia.  [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 01:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Is Jorge Rivera-Herrans notable enough? ==

I see there has been a few AFC declined for the subjected person. Was wondering if they are not notable enough? Or if the references provided in the article drafts were not sufficient. 

Wanted to check prior to submitting an article for creation. 

Additionally Epic: the musical currently only redirects to article Odysseus, is this due to the content being not notable enough as well? [[User:PigStuffy|PigStuffy]] ([[User talk:PigStuffy|talk]]) 00:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:I tried to see these drafts but I can't find too many of them at the moment, maybe you could add the link here. But, the reason for a draft decline is usually stated by the reviewer. 
:I also tried to surf the Internet now for notable references on the subject, they are hardly available. I can't judge as my location may influence the number of citations I'm seeing about them. However, I will suggest that before creating any article about them. Make sure they are available independent references to them. 
:And to your last question, there are usually redirects when they are no enough information for a topic of dicuss to stand alone and they are deeply connected with the parent topic. Rather than completely discarding them, they are attached instead and redirected. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 01:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::The draft in question is [[Draft:Jorge Rivera-Herrans]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 02:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you! 
:::It was as I suspected, lacking enough independent references. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 05:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:A person does not become notable by their good work. They become notable by ''reliable independent publishers writing about their good work''.
:There's a famous old cynical comment about bank loans, that they will only give you a loan if you can prove you don't need one. Wikipedia is like that. People want recognition from others, and they think Wikipedia will bring it to them, but the first thing they have to prove to get a Wikipedia article is that they've already received tons of recognition. Wikipedia intentionally blocks any article that's part of a marketing strategy, and that's a good thing. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 04:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for your response! I now understand that the original article that was submitted did not include enough independent sources. I was surprised he didn't have an article already because of his following, 1 million followers on socials and 2 million monthly listens on Spotify. 
::I Googled Jorge Rivera-Herrans under the news tab and found a number of independent published works such as https://thetacomaledger.com/2024/05/13/musical-review-epic-by-jorge-rivera-herrans/
::I believe this source follows the guidelines, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you [[User:PigStuffy|PigStuffy]] ([[User talk:PigStuffy|talk]]) 09:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Social media is meaningless on Wikipedia. If someone has 900 million followers but no coverage in published media, they don't count.
:::The link you gave is only a student newspaper, not a reliable source. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 19:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I have been criticized a little bit for saying this, but it's close enough to the truth: You have to prove that the person is already "IRL famous" before they can have an article on Wikipedia. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 19:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I appreciate the clarification! In the original denied draft, could you please advice me which sources are reliable? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jorge_Rivera-Herrans
::::And to clarify university and college news sites are not reliable? 
::::How about this?
::::https://puertoricoreport.com/jorge-rivera-herrans/ [[User:PigStuffy|PigStuffy]] ([[User talk:PigStuffy|talk]]) 01:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)


== What to do when a reputable source that is citied is factually incorrect ==

Hello all, 

I have been adding more information and editing a specific page that has been neglected for a long time, knowing that a reputable source that is cited is factually incorrect on this rare occasion.  The historical document cited is just not correct.  I would love to change it but I know that if I do, the edits will just be reversed, citing the source and I might be banned.  What do I do to actually make the information on the page factually correct?  Is there a way to escalate the edits to senior editors, so that they don't get rejected? [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 08:01, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:You mean the source is notable but not saying the right thing? If so, you might not really have a case as how sure you are it's not correct (Wikipedia does not obey the law of personal opinions!). Also, you might Cite a correct one in addition to it. 
:You might also share the link to the article here so we all can review together. [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 08:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello and welcome.  If a source is accurately summarized, but in error about what it says, you will need to either take that up with the source itself to get them to issue a correction, or offer more current sources with more accurate information. It would help to know what article you are talking about, but it's not enough for you to just say it's wrong, which is essentially just your opinion- you need to show that it is wrong. I mean, [[Donald Trump]] and his die hard supporters say it is wrong to claim Joe Biden won the [[2020 United States presidential election]], but that is not what sources say. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:29, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::The document is an official document referring to the heritage of a historical building.  It is not a matter of opinion.  In effect the document says the building is of a certain size and has certain features.  You only need a pair of eyes and to visit the building to know the information, which is from an official document is wrong.  No idea how or why but it is wrong. [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 08:40, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Oh dear. What's the building? -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 08:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:[Edit conflicts] There are no "senior editors" as such, but a sound argument is sound whoever makes it.
:We have a standard approach called the [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle]].
:The thing to do is to find a subsequent source which indisputably shows the first source is incorrect, and Boldly rewrite the passage citing the newer source. If the misconception is widely believed, you might say something along the lines of : "While X was formerly thought, for instance as according to Source A, [cite A] it is now known that Y is the case. [cite Source B]". (I realise the situation might be even more complicated than this.)
:It would also be advisable first to open a new section on the article's Talk page, and explain what you are about to do, and why.
:Be prepared anyway to be Reverted, and then to Discuss with the reverter. If your better source is sound, your proposal should be accepted. Hope this helps. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.6.83.137|94.6.83.137]] ([[User talk:94.6.83.137|talk]]) 08:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::The document is an official document referring to the heritage of a historical building. It is not a matter of opinion. In effect the document says the building is of a certain size and has certain features. You only need a pair of eyes and to visit the building to know the information, which is from an official document is wrong. No idea how or why but it is wrong [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 08:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Then, as I said, you need to take that up with whomever produced the document so they can correct it, or you need to provide other sources that offer more current or more accurate information, so the discrepancy can be noted in the article(that sources disagree). [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

*[[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]], the only article that meets your description is [[Cairo Flats]]. What '''''exactly''''' is your beef about the article? Stop beating around the bush and let us know. And what change would you like to make to the article? [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 10:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*:As shown above, they dispute the given figures for the size of the structure, saying that their observations do not match what documents state. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*:stated number of apartments is 28, as per citation.  Actual number is 36. [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 11:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*::We have an interesting essay on the topic of erroneous sources, [[WP:WSAW]], which may give some guidance. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:16, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:[https://cairoflats.com.au/History This site] was in the article's Further reading section. It seems like the building's official website and it talks about these factual conflicts. The essay [[WP:MINE]] might interest you: often the thing you're looking for is already linked. [[User:HansVonStuttgart|HansVonStuttgart]] ([[User talk:HansVonStuttgart|talk]]) 11:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

::[[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]], the [https://cairoflats.com.au/History official website] that HansVonStuttgart mentions above says "'''There are 36 apartments in total including 26 studios and 10 with separate bedroom. The site, previously under single ownership, was sold and subdivided in 1999.'''" The [https://vhd.heritagecouncil.vic.gov.au/places/2093 citation you are referring to] was published '''25 June 1999'''. Always check the date of sources when you think they are inaccurate or out of date. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 00:36, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|Anjkerjeox}}, can you imagine how much precious volunteer time would have been saved if you had just given us the name of the article in question at the very beginning of this conversation? We are encyclopedia editors here, not detectives. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 04:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

*Looks like Anjkerjeox may be a troll. Not only has he '''not''' updated the article in question with the citation and information we provided him nearly two days ago (and that I reminded him of here [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cairo_Flats&diff=prev&oldid=1244466215]), he just left this message on my talkpage [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Softlavender&diff=prev&oldid=1244584805] after I reverted an extremely deceptive edit he made unjustifiably removing a citation-needed template with the edit-summary "grammar", on an article he created [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Uxbridge_House&diff=prev&oldid=1244466057]. -- [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 00:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
*:Citations go at the end of a sentence, not in the middle.  I put it there by mistake and then removed it.  I did not realise that there was a 48 hour limit on when to apply edits by.  Stop trying to make a storm in a tea cup into a big thing and find another page to edit. [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 01:38, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
*::{{u|Anjkerjeox}}, you have ''no right'' to tell another editor what to work on or what not to work on. Stop that misconduct immediately or you will be blocked. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 01:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
*:::waiting for your strongly worded reply reminding another editor to not call me a troll for fixing my own mistake, on a page I created in ...3.....2........... [[User:Anjkerjeox|Anjkerjeox]] ([[User talk:Anjkerjeox|talk]]) 02:13, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
*::::Stop lying. The citation-needed template was added by {{U|331dot}}, not you [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Uxbridge_House&diff=1244316384&oldid=1244314254], and you immediately removed it with a deceptive edit summary. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:21, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
*::{{u|Anjkerjeox}}, that's bogus and you know it. {{U|331dot}} added the citation-needed template, not you [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Uxbridge_House&diff=1244316384&oldid=1244314254]. You then left a deliberately deceptive edit summary and completely removed (rather than moved) the citation-needed template from a completely uncited sentence [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Uxbridge_House&diff=prev&oldid=1244466057]. It doesn't pay to lie on Wikipedia, because proof of what actually happened is always in the edit history, <p>Also, when are you going to update the [[Cairo Flats]] article with the information and citation that you requested here and that editors painstakingly provided you with, above, over a day ago? Once an editor displays problematical behavior like ignoring the information they requested and acting as if they never received it [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACairo_Flats&diff=1244465688&oldid=1244460926], other editors naturally follow their edits to detect any further problems. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Websites for road lengths ==

Hello. I was wondering if somebody could help me find a website for road lengths. On the [[A508 road]], I used the "measure distance" tool, however last week, it was taken to [[AfD]] (see [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A508 road]]), as it appeared to be original research in some editors' eyes. However, the only reason I used it was because the <u>only</u> other place I could find this kind of information was on SABRE Roads - an unreliable website made by road enthusiasts. Therefore, I was wondering if you lot could help. Is Google Maps OK for something like this if it is the last resort? Or is it OK all the time? Can you find any other free websites that presents this kind of information? Many thanks in advance! Regards, [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:56, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

:I suspect perhaps the real message is "stop wanting to put precise lengths". Finding a source is not the point. The point is finding a '''trustworthy, easily-verifiable, stable''' source. Google gives slightly different answers each time and is not necessarily stable.
:Is there a publicly accessible government document on this? [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 22:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
::There is probably no such source, because such information is unimportant. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 07:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]], actually, such information '''is''' important, as it shows how important the road is: there is a big difference between the A1 at approximately {{convert|410|mi|km}} and the A38 at {{convert|292|mi|km}}, compared with the A79 at {{convert|7.7|mi|km}}, or the A3215 at {{convert|0.2|mi|km}}. Furthermore, the road length needs to be found somewhere in the article (especially in the infobox), so actually it is really important to have in road articles! [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 08:05, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
::::It doesn't "need to be found". If the single road length cannot be found from a reliable source then it should be deleted/not-given. Yes that probably affects the quality of the article but no information is always better than unsourced information or original research. Verifiability trumps the truth every time. Also, there is a big difference between an overall road length, which is a single number, and what we get in some articles which is excessive detail of the distances between multiple waypoints. The former is of encyclopaedic interest if it can be properly sourced (the subject of this discussion) but the latter is really not relevant. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 07:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::So are you basically saying that every road length on every article infobox and/or junction table that is not sourced has to then be removed due to [[WP:V]]? If that is what you are saying, then although I do agree that policies and all that come first, I also think that then the quality of the articles deteriorates. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 08:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Why do you think that removing unverified information causes article quality to deteriorate? Removing such information is a GoodThing{{tm}} [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 08:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Yes it is a good thing, but it just removes important information from the article. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Importance is subjective and cannot trump Wikipedia's standards. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 21:28, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::No, not that I can find (apart from on roads like the [[A1 road (Great Britain)|A1]]), which is the problem; other than oh major roads, your options are (1) add a unreliable source like SABRE roads, made from road enthusiasts, which is more than likely to be reverted, or (2) add Google Maps 'measure distance' tool, which gets challenged as original research or copyvio when the article goes to AfD. So either way, you cannot win (unless someone else finds another source). [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 07:57, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The answer is really simple. If you cannot source it, don't add it. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 07:43, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]], and I just remembered, the third option is to program the route of the road into Google Maps, from A to B, via C, D, E, etc., like the example at [[R102 road (Ireland)]]. Does that count as original research/being unreliable etc.? However, my only problems with this way are: (1) you have to eyeball the route from start to finish, which on a 6-mile-long suburban road in outer London is not that bad, but on the A1, that might be a slight problem, as it is {{convert|410|mi|km}} long, but also as you can only add seven stop off points in total, and (2) if the road is shut for whatever reason, then it may say that the road length is substantially longer than it actually is. What are your thoughts on this?... [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 08:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes it is original research. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 08:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]], but just out of interest, how is that classified as original research? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::See [[WP:SYNTH]]. You may consider [[WP:CALC]] means that you can add up distances, but if those distances are not clearly stated on the source then interpretation of individual section lengths calculation of the total road length is not a simple operation - it is synthesis. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 21:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::And also, could we just do the 'measure distance' tool thing, but only to one or two decimal place(s)? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::It is original research. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 21:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] OK, then. In that case, how are we then supposed to prove the road lengths? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 07:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Find a source. For motorways and A roads in the strategic roads network, it is feasible that National Highways might have documents - as they're the road owner. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 08:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] Good point! I will have a look now! [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 08:09, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-length-statistics-information/road-lengths-in-great-britain-statistics-methodology-note Road lengths in Great Britain statistics: Methodology and quality note] outlines the collection of such data, including the Major Roads Database (MRDB) and the Ordnance Survey (OS) MasterMap Highways Network dataset. As ever, the datasets may not be directly available to the general public or without payment. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 09:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I looked on the Department of Transport website on GOV.UK, and I have found the following citations (it is not what we are looking for, but it is still useful). I will check the National Highways website now. <ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/road-lengths-in-great-britain-2023/road-lengths-in-great-britain-2023|title=Road lengths in Great Britain: 2023|website=GOV.UK: Department for Transport|date=2024-03-21|access-date=2024-08-29}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65fb04369316f5001d64c451/road-length-in-great-britain-2023.zip|title=Road lengths in Great Britain: 2023 data tables|website=GOV.UK: Department for Transport|access-date=2024-08-29}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/road-length-statistics-rdl|title=Road length statistics|website=GOV.UK: DfT website|access-date=2024-08-29}}</ref> [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 09:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]], I have just checked the National Highways website, and I cannot find anything to do with road lengths. Even if there is something on that website, it would be like finding a needle in a haystack. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:And what is the in-house view on this? @[[User:Maproom|Maproom]], @[[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]], @[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] etc.? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 07:44, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Roads4117}}, I rarely if ever work on articles about roads. In day to day life off-Wikipedia, I often need to calculate driving distances for my small family business. I use Google Maps and find it quite accurate. But you have to gain consensus for whatever you end up using. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]], thanks for that advice! [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 08:08, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::I suggest that common sense, possibly [[WP:IAR]], says that a road article needs a figure for its length, to distinguish a 10-mile road from a 200-mile one. Google maps seems reliable enough to offer that single figure, perhaps with "about" to give a little bit of wriggle-room. I note that Good Article [[A82 road]] cites Google Maps for its length. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 08:50, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:PamD|PamD]], I totally agree with you on that. Even if we include a footnote, just to say that 'this figure is not 100% accurate', or that 'this is an estimate', then I think that should be fine. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] and @[[User:PamD|PamD]], I was just thinking, how do we know that Google Maps doesn't round up (or down) its mileage figures? Like how do we know that the [[A5 road (Great Britain)|A5]] is 243 miles long, not 242.5 miles long or 243.4 miles long, as potentially a 0.5mile difference or a 0.9mile difference is quite a big difference! [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:::And also, when a road is closed, then when the Wikipedia editor clicks on the link to verify this information, and then see that this link actually says that the road is xx miles longer, their automatic thought would be to change the Wikipedia article, to have false information, even if the edit was good faith, instead of eyeball a road going from London to northern Wales (which would take forever!) [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:NebY|NebY]], @[[User:PamD|PamD]], @[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]], BTW there was a similar disccussion in September/October 2022 about whether Google Maps is a reliable source or not at [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 388#Google Maps]]. Also see [[WP:GOOGLEMAPS]], which, in a nutshell, states the following: {{tq|Google Maps and Google Street View may be useful for some purposes, including finding and verifying geographic coordinates and other basic information like street names. However, especially for objects like boundaries (of neighborhoods, allotments, etc.), where other reliable sources are available they should be preferred over Google Maps and Google Street View. It can also be difficult or impossible to determine the veracity of past citations, since Google Maps data is not publicly archived, and may be removed or replaced as soon as it is not current. Inferring information solely from Street View pictures may be considered [[Wikipedia:No original research|original research]]}}. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 10:11, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-09-16/News and notes#A fork in the Roads WikiProject]] for one consequence of such discussions. (I provide this for your information, Roads4117, not to open a fresh discussion on the difficulties some editors have found with [[WP:RS]] w/regards to roads and maps; that has already been covered at length in high-profile discussions, statements and actions, and the Teahouse would not be the place anyway.) [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 10:37, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:NebY|NebY]], sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to stay. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'll try again. You mentioned some earlier discussions. They had consequences. [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-09-16/News and notes#A fork in the Roads WikiProject]] describes one. I mention it because you might like to read that and learn about it. I don't mention it in order to open a fresh discussion. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 19:17, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:How long is a piece of road network? [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 11:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::Longer than a piece of string (mostly) [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 12:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]], the average road length in the UK on average varies between 10 miles long and 50 miles long. However, the is the occasional anomaly, with some roads (especially in urban cities) being 5 miles or less, and some going towards the other extremity, with them being hundreds of miles long. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:And @[[User:NebY|NebY]], @[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]], @[[User:NebY|NebY]], @[[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]], @[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]], @[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]], @[[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]], I forgot to mention this earlier, but an example of this unreliability of sources can be found at the [[A1 road (Great Britain)]] article. Like I said at [[Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/A508 road]] on Tuesday 20th August, {{tq|on Wikipedia, it says that the length of the road is 410 miles (660 km), on the SABRE roads website here<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A1|title=A1|website=SABRE Roads|access-date=2024-08-20}}</ref>, it says that the length of the road is 396 miles (637 km), but on this other website I found, it says that the road length is 490 miles (790 km) long.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.freedomgpt.com/wiki/a1-road|title=A1 road|website=Freedom GPT|access-date=2024-08-20}}</ref> And just for the record, the length of the road as the crow flies is approximately 331 miles (533 km).}} This just shows that it is just not the Axxx or Axxxx roads that have this problem on Wikipedia, it is one of the most famous and notable roads in the entire country. There is quite a big difference between 331 miles and 490 miles (159 miles - the equivalent of London to Hull, or Milan to Venice), so getting the correct figure is really important. If there is a small difference of 100 metres or something, then that is standard, but a 159-mile difference is something else!! I know that the sources that I gave were unreliable, but it further emphasises @[[User:PamD|PamD]]'s point further upthread about how we should just have Google Maps as the main source of this kind of thing, but just as an approximate figure, or alternatively have it as a footnote saying that it is not 100% accurate. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 20:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::Would you trust any website with "gpt" in its name and no indication of who has written it? I think we can ignore your 490 miles. I happened to have had a look for this one myself earlier in this discussion: I think we can believe it to be 410 miles, because [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britains-biggest-road-just-got-bigger the government says so]. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 20:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::OK then, we will go with that reference then for the article. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 07:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
:But I am just thinking about it, technically the whole point of junction tables is to verify road lengths. Am I dorrect in saying that @[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] and @[[User:PamD|PamD]]? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:And what is our conclusion to this discussion? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::* '''Use Google Maps''', <u>but</u> only if we can use an 'about' or 'approximately' in the answer, so that we have some wiggle room, which is like what @[[User:PamD|PamD]] said, or alternatively, yet similar to this idea, we could use a footnote to say that this source is not 100% accurate, but it is the best that we have! Any thoughts? [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 19:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::The Teahouse isn't really the place for any sort of consensus-producing discussion, so there's no "our conclusion". There may be some advice from one or two experienced editors. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 22:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:::And UK-roads-interested editors might like to have a look at [[A6 road (England)]], which I looked at to see whether it mentioned that the A6 disappears for some parts of its length, as between Levens Bridge and the Kendal bypass when it "overlaps" (our article's term) with the A590 and A591. Are those 4 miles included in its length? (It's also about a mile longer southbound than northbound, as a numbered road on maps, as there's a section which is only southbound, while northbound joins the A590 further south!) But quite apart from that it seems a pretty dreadful article, with almost no content apart from a blow-by-blow route description. Nothing about its history, (Romans? Turnpike roads? Upgrades prior to M6? Currrent developments?). Perhaps it isn't really notable? (No, I'm sure it is, but the article really needs some attention!) [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 08:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Wow, that's horrible. A great example of why lots of UK road articles need a massive prune. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 08:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] and @[[User:PamD|PamD]], yes I agree that this article does need a lick of paint. However, I also think that this road is way too notable to be redirecting. When you compare this to other Ax or Axx road articles, you can clearly see that this article needs a massive clean-up. It still needs a junction table, a lot more information in the History section (and basically everywhere else apart from the Route section), and more citations in the route section. But I do agree that it does need some attention! [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 09:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Also, @[[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] and @[[User:PamD|PamD]], can I move (copy and paste) this conversation to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography]], as, like you said, the Teahouse is not really the right place for this kind of conversation. [[User:Roads4117|Roads4117]] ([[User talk:Roads4117|talk]]) 07:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Just post a link to it so people can read if they want to. Once it gets archived change the link to point to the archived version. [[User:10mmsocket|10mmsocket]] ([[User talk:10mmsocket|talk]]) 07:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

== Reliable sources  ==

How can I determine if a source is reliable and considered widely useful of the English Wikipedia? When I say sources in this instance, I mean websites. What qualifies a website to be considered reliable, independent and investigative? [[User:War Term|Wår]] ([[User talk:War Term|talk]]) 08:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello and welcome.  Please read [[WP:RS|about reliable sources here]] but in short, a source is reliable if it has a reputation of fact checking and editorial control- they don't publish stuff without checking for accuracy and without someone other than the writer looking at it(i.e. an editor).  This disqualifies things like most blogs and podcasts(though not all). [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Ok. Thank you @[[User:331dot|331dot]]. I do appreciate. [[User:War Term|Wår]] ([[User talk:War Term|talk]]) 08:32, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article entry rejected  ==

Dear Wikipedia community,

I submitted Wikipedia entry for my NGO and it was rejected a couple of times. Each time the article is rejected, someone sends an email to me offering their services for writing wikipedia articles. Does the mean the same person is voluenteering with Wikipedia, otherwise how he/she gets to know our submission is rejected? [[Special:Contributions/91.75.24.106|91.75.24.106]] ([[User talk:91.75.24.106|talk]]) 16:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Please read [[WP:SCAM]] and be very, very cautious. Wikipedia is an open, transparent platform and malicious people are perfectly able to see what is happening on Wikipedia. There is no reason for a good faith volunteer to contact you this way. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 16:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:An email offering services for writing wikipedia articles could be unintentionally amusing; consider pasting it here. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 21:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, IP user, and welcome to the Teahouse. I realise that this is not directly what you are asking about, but have you read [[WP:BOSS]]? If you haven't, I recommend you do so. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:IP editor, please consider forwarding the emails you have received to paid-en-wp{{@}}wikipedia.org so that they can be investigated. This is a common type of scam, as Cullen above notes; the Wikipedia community has uncovered various such cases earlier (e.g. [[Orangemoody]]). ''[[User:JavaHurricane| <span style = "color:green">Java</span>]][[User talk:JavaHurricane|<span style = "color:red">Hurricane</span>]]'' 10:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Vincent Van Patten ==

{{courtesy link|Vincent Van Patten}}

There is no mention on Patten's page about his role on the 70s television series "Hawaii Five-0". [[User:Te86O62%orro|Te86O62%orro]] ([[User talk:Te86O62%orro|talk]]) 00:13, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Then find a reliable source (not IMDB) and add it in. The series isn't mentioned in [[Vincent Van Patten]] and he isn't mentioned in either of the Hawaii Five-O articles, so it's possible that you may be mistaken. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 00:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:As Anachronist says, IMDb isn't a reliable source for Wikipedia articles; that aside, it does not list Vincent Van Patten as appearing in the show, but does say that Joyce Van Patten, his aunt, did – a possible source of confusion. The relevant entry reads "Joyce Van Patten: Lila Daniels / Rhoda Lovejoy (2 episodes, 1970–1972)." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.6.83.137|94.6.83.137]] ([[User talk:94.6.83.137|talk]]) 12:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Missing Q-prompt ==

What happened to the Q-promt on the portal of wikipedia.en?

Since several days, it has vanished from my portal, and to open a specific subject or topic, I now have to enter other language versions of wikipedia, if the subject exists there at all, and then change from there to the english version. Needless to say, this is only an awkward workaround.

Hope someone here can help!

Thanks, 

Oceanos Procellarum [[User:Oceanos Procellarum|Oceanos Procellarum]] ([[User talk:Oceanos Procellarum|talk]]) 14:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

:I see the same as you. I'm normally on mobile, and mobile still works fine, but I switched and there's no search box / Q-prompt / typing area thing.
:You could even try the stupid workaround of going to en.m.wikipedia.org for searches, until there's a proper solution. IDK if that even works on a normal browser though. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the prompt reply!
::At least I Know now I am not the only one with this fundamental bug.
::So, should we report this, but where? [[User:Oceanos Procellarum|Oceanos Procellarum]] ([[User talk:Oceanos Procellarum|talk]]) 15:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Going into Preferences -> Appearance, and switching skins to an older version, is a much better temporary workaround for normal browsers. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hey @[[User:Oceanos Procellarum|Oceanos Procellarum]], are you using dark mode by any chance? Lately the search box has been changed so that it doesn't start working until you click the magnifying glass icon, and on my dark mode the magnifying glass is black on a black background. But if I blindly click near the beginning of my username, the invisible magnifying glass still works and the search box gets focus. So on my machine it's a glitch in how dark mode is set up. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 17:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::Wow, that's it - although in my case it's actually the reverse from dark mode, which I usually do not use. 
::When I point the curser to the left of my user name, there appears a barely visible square with slightly off-white color on white background. 
::And if I then click on this ghostly square, the missing "Search Wikipedia" box reappears!
::So, with this secret knowledge, I am now in business again. 
::But what about all the other people, who don't know about this secret fix.
::Clearly this calls for a bug fix!
::Thanks once more to TooManyFingers, who figured this out,
::and cheers to everybody! [[User:Oceanos Procellarum|Oceanos Procellarum]] ([[User talk:Oceanos Procellarum|talk]]) 18:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

See [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#No search box for default skin]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Creating an article about someone we have little information about ==

I want to complete the list of [[List of rulers of the Yoruba state of Oyo|Alaafins of the Oyo]] Empire, that is my goal.

Problem is, between two very important kings there was an unimportant one who had little to no change in policy and is overlooked by most sources and that is why my article draft was rejected.

I do still want to have an article that can at least give information of what we do know and make it so you can click through via the [[Ajagbo|succession]] - [[Obalokun|predecessor]] links. [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 08:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{courtesy link|Draft:Oluodo}}
:Hi @[[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]]: that is a laudable goal. Alas, there is an inherent difficulty in writing an article about a subject that isn't covered in reliable sources. Wikipedia essentially summarises what reliable published sources have previously said about a subject. Moreover, for a subject to be considered [[WP:notable|notable]], coverage needs to exist in ''multiple'' such sources. If sufficient sources don't exist, they cannot be summarised, and hence no article can be published on Wikipedia. I'm not saying categorically that there couldn't be an article on Oluodo, only that the single source your draft cites isn't enough to base one on. HTH, -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 08:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::I found another book that talks about him in slightly more detail. Would that suffice? [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 09:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]]: impossible to say without knowing what book it is and what is says about the subject. But as a general comment, in order to establish notability we normally require three solid sources. (I say 'normally', because it's not a hard rule, and exceptions could be made both ways, depending on the case.) -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 09:41, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::In looking at articles about the other [[List of rulers of the Yoruba state of Oyo|Alaafins of the Oyo]] Empire, many cite a book by Samuel Johnson, and have no refs other than Law and Johnson. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 09:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::That partially is also my goal for the other articles on the Alaafins, to find more credible sources and expand the articles as they are often just one sentence oblivion. [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 10:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I have now found a third reputable source talking about him. I will include as a reference in my draft and reapply for publishing [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 10:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Hi, {{u|Jupiter Omishola}}! I hope you succeed in finding enough sources for a separate article about Oluodu, as I agree with your remarks about using the succession and predecessor links. However, if you cannot, I suggest that alternatively you could add a Section about him to the article about his predecessor ''or'' successor, and create Ouodu as a redirect to it. Good luck. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.6.83.137|94.6.83.137]] ([[User talk:94.6.83.137|talk]]) 12:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::I hope I can convince the staff he was notable enough, if not I will probably do your suggestion. Thanks for the kind words [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 12:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I've accepted this. Well done @[[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] for finding more sources. Poor man didn't get a proper funeral, but at least he now has a Wikipedia article! -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 13:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::thanks @[[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] you were very helpful [[User:Jupiter Omishola|Jupiter Omishola]] ([[User talk:Jupiter Omishola|talk]]) 13:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::A point needs clarifying. There is no "staff" on Wikipedia. There is no editorial board, no central authority on content. There are only volunteer editors like you and me. Put another way, ''you'' are part of the "staff". ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 14:01, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== IP Block question? ==

My IP was blocked when I attempted to create an account.  I submitted an appeal explaining what I believe had happened and attesting to my updated knowledge of newer Wikipedia rules.  It gave me a link where I could check on the appeal, but that link does not work.  I just get an error.  Can anyone tell me how I can check on the status of my appeal or how, if ever, someone from Wikipedia will get in touch with me about it? [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 14:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Just to clarify, since I was not able to create an account, I don't understand how I am supposed to find out that my appeal has been seen. I cannot log in. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 14:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Your IP is not blocked otherwise you wouldn't be able to post here. What was the name of the account that you tried to create? Perhaps it did not conform to our [[Wikipedia:Username policy]]. Did you try using a different name? [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 15:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The name of the account was VoltaireHollande.  Actually, that was my second attempt, which I realize after reading the rules I should not have attempted.  I frankly no longer remember the original.  I believe what happened is that I had not turned off my VPN.  Since I thought that was the problem and it still would not allow me to log in with [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 15:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Since that happened, I then tried to create a new account (later reading this was against the rules).  And no, I am not logged in. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 15:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::In fact, I ended up on Teahouse because it is possible to post here without logging in. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 15:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::We don't have any user named VoltaireHollande ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/VoltaireHollande]). I also don't see any blocks on your IP at all. So as far as I can tell you're clear to create a new account named VoltaireHollande from the IP you're currently at, and nothing should stop you. It's possible that you'll get blocked on this new account, for ban evasion, but then you can explain this to the blocking admin, who will actually have the information required to help you out. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 16:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::So how do I get in touch with the blocking administration. I don't want to attempt creating a new account since I read that this was against the rules. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 16:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::To be clear, I already put in the appeal acknowledging that I had read the rules, and that included not attempting to create another account. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 16:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::It's okay to create another account now. I presume what happened to the other one is that you were blocked because you were on a VPN at the time. If that's the only reason, simply creating a new account is fine. If your earlier account was blocked because of some other misconduct you haven't mentioned, it's possible that an administrator will block you for ban evasion, at which point you can explain what happened like you've done here. But since we can't look up your old banned account from your IP address, there isn't anything else we can do to find the other account you were blocked on. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 16:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I believe you need an account to be able to edit but it is generally possible to post to Talk without logging in. The block came about when I was trying to create an account to edit. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 16:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::If anyone knows how I can get in touch with the blocking administration without having a Wikipedia editing account, I'd much appreciate it. [[Special:Contributions/130.44.145.55|130.44.145.55]] ([[User talk:130.44.145.55|talk]]) 16:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::In case the comment above is not clear, you can create an account at your current IP (130.44.145.55). In the off chance it is blocked for [[WP:Ban evasion|ban evasion]], you can talk to the blocking administrator ''then'' and get the account unblocked. You don't need to talk to the 'blocking administration' now. [[User:Sungodtemple|Sungodtemple]] ([[User talk:Sungodtemple|talk]] &#8226; [[Special:Contributions/Sungodtemple|contribs]]) 16:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Are Wikipedia templates Turing complete? ==

It seems to me like someone skilled with templates could write a text adventure game with them.

[[User:Dvallin|Dvallin]] ([[User talk:Dvallin|talk]]) 00:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Not by themselves no, templates do not write data. You can use templates to run [[WP:Lua|Lua]] but I don't think that's what you're asking. Somebody ''has'' created [[WP:TWA|The Wikipedia Adventure]] though. -- [[User:DandelionAndBurdock|D'n'B]]-''[[User_talk:DandelionAndBurdock|t]]'' -- 06:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Templates could write data with a twist. If a template had to write data it could generate a link where the url contain that data and on a click the pagename could contain that data. So every click is a clock pulse. [[Special:Contributions/2A02:3032:304:A5C6:2013:F147:E32C:1E64|2A02:3032:304:A5C6:2013:F147:E32C:1E64]] ([[User talk:2A02:3032:304:A5C6:2013:F147:E32C:1E64|talk]]) 18:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== I don't know why my article is getting rejected. I have a righteous cause. ==

I have written a draft article for submission for Nick Oliveri the author, as I am a fan of literature and this specific novelist is often conflated online and in archives with the musician from queens of the stone age who is much older, different, and this all does Nick Oliveri the novelist a disservice. I keep getting rejected for vague reasons that all seem to be different, even though I have been journalistic, objective, and informative in my approach as I have almost 40 sources from credible institutions and outlets. I need help please [[User:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|Theartistsenpsychlopedia]] ([[User talk:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|talk]]) 02:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Courtesy link|Draft:Nick_Oliveri_(author)}}
: Resubmitting the draft without making any changes, as you did, is not going to help your case.  [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 03:23, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello {{u|Theartistsenpsychlopedia}}. It was rejected for the same reason both times: "This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article." I looked at the article, and it does not seem objective to me. Phrases like "granted Nick Oliveri the opportunity to tell stories of great visions for positive impact" and "Restless in his pursuit to share his work" don't look like something you'd see in an encyclopedia, they look promotional. The only purpose of Wikipedia is to neutrally document information about things that are notable. Righteous causes and promotional content aren't accepted. A lot of the sources you're using are store pages, public relations, or minor outlets. We're more interested in what Reuters or The New York Times, for example, has to say about someone. If this is to be an article, you'll want to find reliable independent sources that cover his career in detail and then write about it in an impartial tone. [[User:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#324717">The</span><span style="color:#45631f">big</span><span style="color:#547826">ugly</span><span style="color:#68942f">alien</span>]] ([[User talk:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:sienna">talk</span>]]) 03:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::ok this is helpful. Can you please delineate every time where there is any grandiosity in prose here? The reason why I ask is because this young novelist keeps being overshadowed and essentially plaigiarised by wikipedia because the older Nick Oliveri has a wikipedia, and according to many google searches these books written by Nick Oliveri the Ukrainian American are being attributed to someone ese becaus eof the very platform you're upholding [[User:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|Theartistsenpsychlopedia]] ([[User talk:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|talk]]) 03:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Every time? Thebiguglyalien has other things to do. And plagiarism doesn't mean what you seem to think. [[Special:Contributions/126.33.84.133|126.33.84.133]] ([[User talk:126.33.84.133|talk]]) 04:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Understood, but there still remains a serious problem that one of my favorite authors *practically* gets attributed to someone that he is not. That is what bothers me, regardless of semantics. I'm just trying to be productive and serve this platform for its purpose, as I see it being misaligned right now based on searches etc.  [[User:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|Theartistsenpsychlopedia]] ([[User talk:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|talk]]) 05:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::: {{Ping|Theartistsenpsychlopedia}} Is Wikipedia misattributing his works? If so, please tell us where. If not, this is not the place to resolve the matter; nor is it the purpose of Wikipedia to do so. Take it up with whoever is doing the misattribution. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

*[[User:Theartistsenpsychlopedia|Theartistsenpsychlopedia]], no one cares about your "righteous cause". See [[WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS]]. Nor does the Nick Oliveri you are writing about appear to pass Wikipedia thresholds of [[WP:N|notability]]. If the person wants to differentiate themselves from other persons of the same name, have them create a personal website. Wikipedia is not a webhost for personal information. If you yourself are Nick Oliveri, you should not be writing a Wikipedia article on yourself. Lastly, no one cares about the trivial life details of an obscure writer who has self-published a handful of novels. Best cease this Wikipedia endeavor and stop wasting your time. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 05:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*:he’s one of my favorite authors who is a betseller and whose sales ( I met him at a signing on the west coast) are encumbered by having a different Nick Oliveri’s persona being wrongly attributed to his books… I will not apologize for trying to do the right thing and have his (by the way, secretive personal gripes) isssues of detection WRONGFULLY overshadowed and essentially assigned to someone who is not him. 
*:sorry but I’m not sorry for standing up for what I thought was a core cause of Wikipedia’s…. [[Special:Contributions/100.0.220.84|100.0.220.84]] ([[User talk:100.0.220.84|talk]]) 05:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*::Is a #1 bestselling author not notable? Just because you don’t know this figure does not mean that I don’t know your favorite/ preferred public figures. [[Special:Contributions/100.0.220.84|100.0.220.84]] ([[User talk:100.0.220.84|talk]]) 06:01, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Please remember to log in each time you edit, your draft requires [[WP:TNT]] and a complete re-write in a neutral, dry encyclopaedic tone. [[User:Theroadislong|Theroadislong]] ([[User talk:Theroadislong|talk]]) 06:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Theartistsenpsychlopedia}}, please log in to edit. Your draft is overtly promotional from beginning to end, and promotional editing is not permitted on Wikipedia. The [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] is a core content policy, and compliance with that policy is mandatory. You must remove ''all'' of the promotional content from your draft if you are to have any hope of having this draft accepted. It was a bad idea for you to write {{tpq|essentially plaigiarised by wikipedia}} because that can be interpreted as an accusation that Wikipedia editors are violating the law somehow, which is, to be frank, ludicrous. Wikipedia editors place a high priority on accuracy and logic when advancing an argument. So, get to work cleaning up that mess that you incorrectly think is {{tpq|journalistic, objective, and informative}}, or an administrator may come along and clean it up by deleting it entirely. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 06:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:You can add the ''distinguish'' template to the [[Nick Oliveri]] article to inform readers that the article is not about Nick Oliveri the author. [[User:Constant314|<b style="color: #4400bb;">''Constant314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 18:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

I deleted a lot of subjective crap, but the draft is still a non-encyclopedic mess. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 06:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Aside from other matters, you have to work on the prose. Within a single, short paragraph:
*''at the turn of the 2010s decade'': Why both "the 2010s" and "decade"? (And why not just say "in spring 2021"?)
*''fell to dark depths'': What does this actually mean?
*''as soon as [...] promptly'': Why both?
*''belittling himself as [...] a self-proclaimed "weirdo"'': What does "self-proclaimed" add to this?
-- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 09:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Ping|Hoary}} We don't say things like "in spring 2021" because this is a global project, and one half of this planet has spring around March time, the other around September. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:: An excellent point, [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]. Certainly it should be observed in general; but we're told that this fellow "promptly moved across the country to San Luis Obispo, California in the Spring of 2021". The hemisphere identifies which spring is meant; also, "the Spring of 2021" is the clearest time reference that I notice in the draft for this series of events. But of course the draft has problems more serious than the awkwardness of its wording. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 21:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Ok folks, I think I have gotten the point here and will work on something dry and neutral. My emotion in this one came from clear overstatements based on Nick’s story he told me during our interaction at one of our book signings, and I’d never accuse Wikipedia of anything specifically, because all I meant by “plagiarism” was that Google will attribute nick’s books to a different Nick Oliveri , which, I’m sure you’d agree, would be frustrating and enraging, even if he pointed that anger wrongly at Wikipedia, there is still little he can do. I appreciate all the help here where it was constructive and objective, and I’ll ignore the insults, as I think so long my wiki draft is torn apart, and not the author himself nor his story, is good and productive for me. I appreciate this and will completely continue to make it dry and functional and to your high standards. [[Special:Contributions/100.0.220.84|100.0.220.84]] ([[User talk:100.0.220.84|talk]]) 08:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Of note: A tweet by the author from yesterday, which simply reads ""Fuck Wikipedia": [https://x.com/faultyharb/status/1831924715126165956] (archived [https://archive.ph/aeH92]). --[[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 08:12, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

== Adding a subpage to an existing article ==

{{ping|Johnjbarton}} I have been around awhile, but I have never added a subpage to an existing article.  It seems like this would be a good way to extend an article without bloating the article.  I would like to have advice.  Is it a good idea? Is it a bad idea.  Can it piggyback on the references already in the parent page or does it need its own, full, citations?  Does it inherit notability from the parent page.  For example, if there is a page X that has content about Y, can I create a subpage X/Y where I move information about Y and perhaps add information.  Is this non-controversial.  Do I need to meet all the new page creation guidelines? [[User:Constant314|<b style="color: #4400bb;">''Constant314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 18:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Constant314}}. Subpages are not permitted for articles, and that function is disabled in the software. Please see [[Wikipedia:Subpages]] for more information. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Please see [[Wikipedia:Splitting]] for the procedure used to deal with the type of situation you describe. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you very much. [[User:Constant314|<b style="color: #4400bb;">''Constant314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 18:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

* Answered [[User:Constant314|<b style="color: #4400bb;">''Constant314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 18:21, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

==  Coronation Street ==

{{atop|1=OP blocked - "not here to build an encyclopedia". <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 18:34, 8 September 2024 (UTC)}}

My Name is christopher cogan i love to take part of platt family i don't know my actor name if you pick my name i love born 1970's or 1980's or 1990's  my actor is not christopher cogan that's my character name [[User:Benjamin j. Davis|Benjamin j. Davis]] ([[User talk:Benjamin j. Davis|talk]]) 11:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Benjamin j. Davis|Benjamin j. Davis]], this is a help forum for editing Wikipedia. Do you have a question about editing Wikipedia? <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">Qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 12:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::''[[Coronation Street]]'', i do have a question about editing wikipedia my name christopher cogan  i am charater  my name is christopher platt on corrie 
::can you helping my actor name and date of birth real life [[User:Benjamin j. Davis|Benjamin j. Davis]] ([[User talk:Benjamin j. Davis|talk]]) 12:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Pictogram voting comment.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Note:'''<!-- Template:ESp -->User seems to be WP:NOTHERE judging by their talk page. We're sorry, but Teahouse will likely not be able to satisfy your request. Have you tried asking it on the relevant Fandom page instead? [[User:AlphaBetaGamma|ABG]] <small> ([[User talk:AlphaBetaGamma|Talk/Report any mistakes here]]) </small> 12:34, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::: ''[[Coronation Street]]'', i do have a question about editing wikipedia  i am charater my name is christopher platt on corrie
:: can you helping my actor name and date of birth real life [[User:Benjamin j. Davis|Benjamin j. Davis]] ([[User talk:Benjamin j. Davis|talk]]) 12:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::As ABG said above, no, we cannot. [[Special:Contributions/126.33.64.135|126.33.64.135]] ([[User talk:126.33.64.135|talk]]) 13:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

{{abot}}

== "Karwal" Article without any single source  ==

{{Courtesy link|Karwal}}

{{atop|1=OP blocked as a sock. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 18:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)}}

The article I want to highlight with the moderator have lack of dedicated consensus material or any significant acquisition  to make it occurrence  in main space, so I  think this article should be intervened by some expertise . [[User:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|DISCOVERY OF HISTORY]] ([[User talk:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|talk]]) 03:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|DISCOVERY OF HISTORY]], your move to draft was reverted because the article is too old to send back to draft space. Please have a look at the messages on your talk page. If you think this article should be deleted entirely -- that is, you think there are basically ''no'' sources about the topic in existence anywhere -- then you can nominate it for deletion at [[WP:AFD]]. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 03:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|DISCOVERY OF HISTORY]], I've [[WP:PROD|proposed the mentioned article be deleted]]. [[User:AlphaBetaGamma|ABG]] <small> ([[User talk:AlphaBetaGamma|Talk/Report any mistakes here]]) </small> 07:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::So thats what i an looking to sort this out thanks for assisting me out I appreciate it@[[User:AlphaBetaGamma|AlphaBetaGamma]] [[User:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|DISCOVERY OF HISTORY]] ([[User talk:DISCOVERY OF HISTORY|talk]]) 10:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The article is not "without any single source"; it quite clearly cites "The [[2011 Census of India]] for Rajasthan". <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:34, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

{{abot}}

== A question of not so much importance ==

I have long searched for a picture I saw once about how excrement longer than a certain length must be lowered by hand into the toilet. It was on one of the advisory pages of wikipedia, possibly a humor page. I can't find it :( [[Special:Contributions/75.142.254.3|75.142.254.3]] ([[User talk:75.142.254.3|talk]]) 15:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

:IP editor: the file is [[:File:Harvard_Square_turds.jpg|this one]]. Finding it via the advanced options in [[Special:Search]] is an interesting exercise. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::I commend your competence and bravery. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 23:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you, I could not find it. [[Special:Contributions/75.142.254.3|75.142.254.3]] ([[User talk:75.142.254.3|talk]]) 08:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== I have a general critique about Wikipedia use of language for defining 'racism'.  ==

I have been personally experiencing this problem, via cancel culture. So, understanding the problem I have a critique on the use of language and lack of facts on theories that are used to define racism. I feel I'm introducing a new, or if not new, ignored point. 
The Misuse of Academic Language: How Complex Theories on Racism Become Tools for Discrimination.

Academic theory, particularly from left-leaning scholars, has developed complex and 'nuanced' definitions of structural or systemic racism, often presenting these theories as indisputable fact. This approach has, in some cases, led to what can be seen as a narcissistic phenomenon, where contradictions about reality and truth in human behavior justify discrimination against white men. As per these definitions, white people, seen as the top of a power hierarchy, cannot themselves be discriminated against. This mirrors a narcissistic method of control, wherein 'academic language' is used to push philosophical theories as fact, misleading people into interpreting structuralism and related concepts of 'implicit bias' as conclusive proof of racism. Basic social behaviors, like homophily—our tendency to trust those similar to us—are misconstrued as racism. Using unequal outcomes as proof of discrimination is problematic. When the intricate definitions of 'structural' or 'systemic' racism are distilled into everyday understanding, they often translate into the oversimplified belief that 'all white people are racist and don’t realize it.' This, as Noam Chomsky has pointed out, shows how postmodernist language, when reduced to plain terms, reveals the philosophical theory as fantasy. In this way, left-leaning academics have created language that can be used narcissistically to abuse or vilify individuals based on skin color or sex. [[User:AstroSQ|AstroSQ]] ([[User talk:AstroSQ|talk]]) 01:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

:hi @[[User:AstroSQ|AstroSQ]] and welcome to the Teahouse! are you intending to have this theory posted onto the [[Racism]] article, or is this intended a critique on Wikipedia or certain academic papers that Wikipedia uses as sources? &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 01:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::I did make an attempt to post it on the Racism article. I thought I submitted it. But I was directed to use Teahouse. So here I am. [[User:AstroSQ|AstroSQ]] ([[User talk:AstroSQ|talk]]) 02:05, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::You posted the above content on the Talk page of the Racism article and it was reverted (removed). Talk pages are the proper place to debate/discuss/reach consensu when editors disagree. It is not aplace for your thoughts on the topic. A note to this effect was left on your Talk page. If you believe that the content belongs in the article, then references are required. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 02:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::::What kind of references are required?  [[User:AstroSQ|AstroSQ]] ([[User talk:AstroSQ|talk]]) 02:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::[[WP:RS]] is the very basis for how Wikipedia works. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 11:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

*AstroSQ, you are free to post your personal musings on a blog, forum, social media, or published article/book, but '''[[WP:NOTAFORUM|Wikipedia is not a forum]]''' and thus it is not the place to post such personal theses -- not on a talkpage, or Teahouse, or userpage. You might try some place like Reddit. If you are [[WP:HERE|here to build an encyclopedia]] by adding cited facts to articles, then welcome. If you are here to soapbox your own views, then you will not last long. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 03:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
*:So, citing for a past published public policy as accounting for the history of laws governing race would be very relevant to the article, as far as I can tell. If I were to collect stories of hundreds of people who have experienced racism relative to a philosophical theory that claims to seek to reduce racism but in fact increased racism, would that be relevant to Wikipedia as the history of racism? [[User:AstroSQ|AstroSQ]] ([[User talk:AstroSQ|talk]]) 04:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
*::No, that would be [[WP:OR|Original Research]] and possibly also [[WP:SYNTH|Synthesis]], neither of which belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the venue you are seeking. Find a venue which supports and allows the posting of original research. It's fairly clear that you are not here to add facts to an encyclopedia, but rather to put across your own viewpoint, which is not what Wikipedia is for. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 05:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::::As for "What kind of references are required?", the article has more than 250 references. Look at existing content and references. Are there reliable source references that support your idea that "...a philosophical theory that claims to seek to reduce racism but in fact increased racism."? [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== Religious institutions ==

Can we add a list of all churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, etc. to an article about a city? [[Special:Contributions/73.170.137.168|73.170.137.168]] ([[User talk:73.170.137.168|talk]]) 20:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
: No, that's not appropriate for an encyclopedia article.  Might be a better fit for the city's entry at Wikivoyage, but you might want to ask first.https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Main_Page [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 20:32, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::OK. [[Special:Contributions/2601:644:9083:5730:B42B:A5F0:DBF7:4CD|2601:644:9083:5730:B42B:A5F0:DBF7:4CD]] ([[User talk:2601:644:9083:5730:B42B:A5F0:DBF7:4CD|talk]]) 21:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::It depends. Wikipedia is not a guide for religious institution, however if a specific institution is notable in Wikipedia terms, e.g [[Cathedral of St. John the Divine]] is rightfully so linked in [[Morningside Heights]] (a neighborhood within [[New York City]] that's appropriate. A list is another possibility like in [[Synagogues of Kraków]] ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 21:38, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:Why would you want a list like that? What would it be good for?
:Somehow I think I sense "We want more recognition for our church, and we think we can get it on Wikipedia, but how can we keep it from being deleted? We need a clever strategy against deletion... I know! Let's add all the other churches in town too!" [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 23:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Because it's a relevant feature about a city? You could ask: Why would you want a list of highways in a state? Why would you want a list of schools in a town? Why would you want a list of villages in a tehsil? [[Special:Contributions/2601:644:9083:5730:1D92:8684:37CF:EE71|2601:644:9083:5730:1D92:8684:37CF:EE71]] ([[User talk:2601:644:9083:5730:1D92:8684:37CF:EE71|talk]]) 05:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, Wikipedia isn't concerned about that, as it is [[Wikipedia:NOTDIRECTORY|not intended to be a directory]]. WikiVoyage is a potential alternative, as {{np|RudolfRed}} pointed out. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 13:56, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:: {{Ping|TooManyFingers}} Please [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]]; doubly so here at The Teahouse. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 08:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
: You could check that they all have entries in [[Wikidata]] (and expand any that already exist), and take photos of each and add them to Wikimedia Commons. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 08:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help with checking any COI and Notablity issues ==

Hi, I'd be grateful if an editor can lookover article [[Nick Jordan (artist)]] and check for any specific COI issue or problems with sources that don't meet notability guidelines. I have answered question on the article's talk page, giving several examples of secondary sources, and no speicific COI issue has been identified. However, the templates are still present on the page after many months, and I'm hoping these can be removed if article meets guidelines. any help or improvements much appreciated. [[User:Jorbert30|Jorbert30]] ([[User talk:Jorbert30|talk]]) 16:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:The COI should stay. Your account and two single-purpose IP addresses 84.92.55.233 and 130.88.238.61 have made the great majority of edits to this article (and also to the related [[Jacob Cartwright and Nick Jordan]] article.) You have declared COI for this one. IP 84.92.55.233 and 194.74.185.34 each deleted the COI tag (reverted). Have you also been editing as these three IP addresses? If that is from forgetting to log in, Stop. If deliberate, and continues, then sockpuppetry and grounds for being indefinitely blocked. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 17:01, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

{{od}}

{{Tl|COI}} should never have been placed there; the template's documentation is unambiguous (highlighting in original):

{{Blockquote|Like the other neutrality-related tags, <mark>if you place this tag, you should promptly start a discussion on the article's talk page to explain what is non-neutral about the article</mark>. If you do not start a discussion, any editor will be justified in removing the tag without warning. Be careful not to violate the policy against [[WP:OUTING]] users who have not publicly self-disclosed their identities on the English Wikipedia.}}

-- <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 18:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== I gonna admit ==

Wikipedia donations are <u>NOT NEEDED</u>, you may say why? Well Wikipedia earns 154,7 millions dollars as of 2022. All that money goes to the ones that maintain Wikipedia, however the ones who converted Wikipedia in what it is today are THE USERS. The users, admins, and stewards who have created many articles don’t receive nothing. The donations only end up in the ones who maintain Wikipedia engine, but not it’s articles, which let’s gonna admit is not too hard to maintain. Wikipedia has just text, and the images aren’t even of Wikipedia but they are of commons. With this I’m not disrespecting this wonderful encyclopedia nor it’s users who have created this wonderful articles. Just that I feel that the users should gain something, because they are spending their time editing and fixing Wikipedia and they are not receiving nothing. That means that They are WORKING FOR FREE. The Wikimedia ones also are working but by less time that the users, and the Wikimedia ones are getting all the money, and the users nothing. I already said this but I gonna say it again, IM NOT DISRESPECTING THE USERS NOR THE PERSONS WHO WORK TO MAIN THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. But rather I’m saying this because all reasons gave above, truly disappointing. [[User:Protoeus|Protoeus]] ([[User talk:Protoeus|talk]]) 05:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

:Donations go to the Wikimedia Foundation which hosts, amoungst many other things both Wikipedia and Wikicommons. I'm not super knowlegeable about web severs and whathaveyou but I'm glad someone is keeping an eye on them. You're under no obligation to donate to that if you don't want to. What do the editors get out of it? They get Wikipedia. -- [[User:DandelionAndBurdock|D'n'B]]-''[[User_talk:DandelionAndBurdock|t]]'' -- 06:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Protoeus}}, the Teahouse is a place to ask questions about editing Wikipedia. It is not the place for a rant against the [[Wikimedia Foundation]], which has no day to day involvement with developing content on Wikipedia. If you do not like the WMF, then don't donate any money to them. As for me, I donate time to improving Wikipedia as opposed to donating money to the WMF. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 06:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The purpose of donation is to keep the Wikimedia projects alive. But it's not necessary to donate as the WMF has sufficient funds to run for one and half decades. [[User:Ahri Boy|Ahri Boy]] ([[User talk:Ahri Boy|talk]]) 12:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|Cullen328}} Yeah, I feel that it’s better collaborate to edit to Wikipedia, instead of donating for them. I knew the teahouse wasn’t for this, but I needed that some important people here know that. [[User:Protoeus|Protoeus]] ([[User talk:Protoeus|talk]]) 14:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{u|Protoeus}}, for a better understanding of the depth and breadth of the Wikimedia Foundation's activities and responsibilities, you might find these articles helpful:
:::'''On the English Wikipedia: [[Wikimedia Foundation]]'''
:::'''On Meta-Wiki: [[meta:Wikimedia Foundation]]'''
: If you'd like a better understanding of the motivations, viewpoints, and advice of ''volunteers'' who create, monitor, and maintain the actual content; you could spend many evenings reading [[Wikipedia:Essay directory|over 2,000 essays]] that they have written on a wide range of Wikipedia-related topics.
:::— [[User:Scottyoak2|Scottyoak2]] ([[User talk:Scottyoak2|talk]]) 07:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:And yet, where do they get that money from? Donors. [[User:Drdr150|Drdr150]] ([[User talk:Drdr150|talk]]) 21:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== My daughter is the last of famous bloodline ==

Hello, my daughter is the last bloodline of General Gordon Meade. I want to add her to his page. She is 12 and I want her to be proud of her family and learn all the history [[User:Amcraig82|Amcraig82]] ([[User talk:Amcraig82|talk]]) 01:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Amcraig82|Amcraig82]], whether you have in mind General [[George Meade]], the poet [[Gordon Meade]], or somebody else, your daughter is most welcome to read the article, to learn from it, and to be proud of her family. But she has no place in the article (unless [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] with no connection to her have described her and her relationship with the subject of the article). -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 01:33, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Yup, I'm from the bloodline of [[Charlemagne]], King of the Franks, and I don't add my name to his article. See [[WP:NOT]]. [[User:tgeorgescu|tgeorgescu]] ([[User talk:tgeorgescu|talk]])  01:34, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Not to mention that Matthew Fox and Mark Rockefeller, both related to George Meade through his daughter Sarah Wise Meade, would likely be surprised to find out that neither they or their children actually exist. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 02:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:Since you want these things, you should just tell her yourself. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 13:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:Sir, your daughter has not personally done anything notable (at least yet). It is fine for her to read his article, but it is not fine to include her in it due to nepotism. [[User:Drdr150|Drdr150]] ([[User talk:Drdr150|talk]]) 21:20, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== I would like to apply for one month of editing time for the geji entry ==
{{atop
| result = Closing this in an attempt to centralize further discussion at [[WP:ANI#User:清风与明月 Continued Tendentious editing.]] [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 21:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
}}
{{courtesy link|Gējì}}, [[Talk:Gējì]]

I'm really sorry.This entry is not perfect now. I have been slowly improving it, but due to controversy, I cannot edit it now. The sexual issues of this group of female performers are being held up. Some people must define them as sex workers and must think that all of them are prostitution.For the specific situation and explanation, please read all I said in the discussion forum, if it is convenient.<nowiki>[[Talk:Gējì|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:G%C4%93j%C3%AC]]</nowiki>  I hope someone can have a discussion and define the identity of this group of female performers, rather than them continuing to be exported as they are now.I know this is presumptuous, but if anyone could help, I'd really appreciate it, thanks.Sorry to bother. Now some people even think that all the contents of this entry, even the name of this entry, should not exist, and that the entry must be given a wrong definition.

I want to apply for a month to complete this entry, and then come back to it if there is any problem. In the current situation, this entry may be locked for life. So I really hope someone can take a look at this question, thank you very much.

[[User:清风与明月|清风与明月]] ([[User talk:清风与明月|talk]]) 07:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
: <small>added courtesy link since the intended link used [[WP:nowiki|nowiki]] &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 07:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)</small>
:It's a little difficult to parse this request, but if I'm interpreting your question correctly, there is no mechanism for "applying" for exclusive editing time for a live article. Your edits have no special priority over any other editor's edits. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 11:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
This issue is at [[WP:ANI#User:清风与明月 Continued Tendentious editing.]] and is outside the scope of the Teahouse. My suggestion is when multiple people ask you to refrain from editing, you comply with such requests regardless of correct you [may think you] are. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 11:28, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:Based on this post, I have [[WP:ANI#User:清风与明月 Continued Tendentious editing|proposed an indefinite block]]. This simply isn't working. —<span style="font-family: serif">'''''[[User:Wasell|<span style="color: #0a0">Wasell</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Wasell|(<span style="color: #e66">T</span>)]]</sup>'''''</span> 17:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::The answer is '''No'''. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== What qualifications does one need to approve Articles for Creation? ==

Title. What do I have to do to approve and decline articles on [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation]] and [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects]]? [[User:Drdr150|Drdr150]] ([[User talk:Drdr150|talk]]) 21:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Drdr150|Drdr150]], I'll put this as gently as I can: if you cannot figure this out yourself, you are not yet qualified. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 21:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::thank you. sorry, I am relatively new to the site as a whole. [[User:Drdr150|Drdr150]] ([[User talk:Drdr150|talk]]) 21:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Don't worry about it. Everyone starts somewhere. Glad to have you around! -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 21:56, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:You can see qualifications for reviewing Articles for Creation at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Participants]] and for New Page Reviewer at [[Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers]]. [[User:Tsarivan613|Tsarivan613]] ([[User talk:Tsarivan613|talk]]) 22:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== Section header singular vs. plural ==

If an article has only one person listed in a section called "notable person", shouldn't the header still read "notable people"?  I think I am right, but I can't find a relevant part in the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]].  I am looking at [[Arkabutla, Mississippi]]. [[User:Tsarivan613|Tsarivan613]] ([[User talk:Tsarivan613|talk]]) 22:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Tsarivan613}} I don't know of any specific guideline for "Notable people" lists; but [[MOS:NOTES]] says about reference sections "the heading should be plural even if it lists only a single item", and it seems logical to extend that to other sorts of lists. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 22:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:Are there plans to add more people? If the list only contains one entry, then maybe there is no need for a list. If sources mention the person in connection with the town, perhaps the person could be mentioned in prose somewhere, and possibly in the lead if the person contributes to the notability of the town. [[User:Perception312|Perception312]] ([[User talk:Perception312|talk]]) 22:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::Point taken.  From my standpoint, more notable people could have existed even if Wikipedia hasn't recorded them, and in any case, the number could soon change.  Better to have it as plural. [[User:Tsarivan613|Tsarivan613]] ([[User talk:Tsarivan613|talk]]) 23:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

== East Bay Regional Park District ==

I see some job descriptions listed at [[East Bay Regional Park District#Staff members]]. Should they be removed? [[Special:Contributions/2607:F140:6000:816A:ED02:ED81:4C2:7E3E|2607:F140:6000:816A:ED02:ED81:4C2:7E3E]] ([[User talk:2607:F140:6000:816A:ED02:ED81:4C2:7E3E|talk]]) 23:42, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

:Absolutely. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 00:08, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== My draft has been rejected because it "requires a fundamental rewrite in order to become encyclopedic" ==

I have written an article about a scholarship there is little information about outside its primary sources: [[Draft:Georgia Rotary Student Program (GRSP)]] 

It has been rejected and it says it meets the criteria for speedy deletion because it sounds promotional. I am unsure how I can rewrite it to make it sound more neutral or "encyclopedic". I used the Rotary Youth Exchange wikipedia website as a guide. Can anyone provide me with examples of how i can rewrite a sentence to sound more neutral? or what should I change to get it approved? [[User:Wikiproject2024|Wikiproject2024]] ([[User talk:Wikiproject2024|talk]]) 04:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

:Please abandon this idea as what you are trying to do is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia. Please start by reading [[Wikipedia:Golden rule]]. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 07:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::[[Rotary Youth Exchange]] has multiple significant flaws, for which it has 'tags' at the top. This makes it a not-good model for your effort. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I am aware, but it exists and is allowed on wikipedia and it is a pretty similar kind of program, which is why I used it. [[User:Wikiproject2024|Wikiproject2024]] ([[User talk:Wikiproject2024|talk]]) 16:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::::That article is "allowed" on Wikipedia in the sense that somebody created it twenty years ago, when we were eager to get Wikipedia populated, and didn't worry so much about standards. In an ideal world, every one of the thousands and thousands and thousands of seriously substandard articles we have would have been looked at by now, and either improved or deleted; but this being a volunteer project where people work on what they choose, this tends not to happen. But we have higher standards for new articles. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, Wikiproject2024, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that if you have a subject where "there is little inhformation about outside its primary sources", then almost by definition it is impossible for the subject to meet Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:notability|notability]], and no article is possible. Therefore every single moment you spend on trying to get an article on this subject is time and effort wasted. Sorry. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::I understand. Thank you so much for your help! [[User:Wikiproject2024|Wikiproject2024]] ([[User talk:Wikiproject2024|talk]]) 00:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Redirection pages to a page that merely mentions the title ==

This is a general query. I found a redirection page [[Palki Sharma]] that redirects to [[Firstpost]]. The Firstpost page does not even have a section about Palki Sharma. It merely mentions her as Managing Editor once. Is this standard? I don't think so.

There are far too many names of people (Even on [[Firstpost]]) who don't have an independent pages. I think it is not advisable to create a redirection for them, unless they at least have significant mention on the related page or a section dedicated to them.

There are mentions of Executive editor and Deputy executive editor as well who don't have a redirection. Managing editor, also is not a significant role for a redirection. Although, she has wide media presence, we can create an individual page for her. Just curious about the redirection to a page that merely mentions her name. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 11:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:I'm just going to provide a general answer to your general query: When it comes to redirects, a mention is better than nothing and redirects are cheap. I would just like to mention that you should always check both 'what links here' and the page logs (I suspect your question may have been a bit different if you'd seen them). -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 12:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::Agreed with the "redirects are cheap" point. I was just thinking if that's allowed then many such wikilinks can be created by people that just fool people. You click on reach an article that barely talks about the title you wished to read more about.
::By "What links here", do you mean on the redirection page (here [[Palki Sharma]])? Even [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Palki_Sharma that] doesn't seem much. [[User:Waonderer|Waonderer]] ([[User talk:Waonderer|talk]]) 14:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::If you wish to read more about Palki Sharma, I suggest doing a Google search. If you believe this redirect should be deleted, you should nominate it at [[WP:RFD]], following the instructions there. If you wish to create a Wikipedia article on Palki Sharma, start the article in draft space via [[WP:AFC]], and then nominate it when you are satisfied with it. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 14:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Palki_Sharma]] shows for example a previous AfD discussion. I'd also note there is at least [[Draft:Palki Sharma 1|one extant draft]], and [[Draft:Palki Sharma|one refundable draft]] (of course you already know this). I don't know where a deletion proposal for the redirect would land. I'd estimate about even odds. Personally I don't take great offence from these types of harmless redirects for borderline people. They may encourage more content, or provide some information to the end user, both of which may plausibly exist. -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 23:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Previous deletion discussion: [[WP:Articles for deletion/Palki Sharma]]. -- [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== How to add an item to a semi-locked page? ==

I would like to add to the Pornography page the following information but don’t know how?
Sexart is an attempt to replace the outdated terminology of ‘porn’ and ‘pornography’ with a description that emphasises the artistic elements of the erotic arts. [[User:ButIsIt|ButIsIt]] ([[User talk:ButIsIt|talk]]) 23:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:You suggest the addition in a new thread at the foot of [[Talk:Pornography]], of course providing a [[:WP:RS|reliable source]] for what you say. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|ButIsIt}} Please review comments I left on your page regarding the decline of [[Draft:Sexart]]. Unless you can provide sourcing that demonstrates the addition would be sufficiently [[WP:N|notable]], it isn't suitable for inclusion. ~[[User:Liance|Liance]]<sup>[[User talk:Liance|talk]]</sup> 00:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{u|ButIsIt}}, your first attempt at a user page (since deleted) had a one-sentence description of "sexart", followed by "<nowiki>Www.SexartWorld.com</nowiki>". This address redirects to  <nowiki>https://sexartworld.wordpress.com/about/</nowiki>, which has what it titles a "Business Pitch". This reads in part "How long before billions of people are surfing to <nowiki>www.SexartWorld.com</nowiki> as opposed to another outdated porn site?" There's something mildly amusing about the copywriter's suggestion that what's advertised is just "another outdated porn site"; but that matter aside, are you here in the hope that billions of people will surf there? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 02:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Close discussions ==

Do I need to log in to close discussions? [[Special:Contributions/2001:4456:C7F:EF00:9061:DDFC:B88A:4496|2001:4456:C7F:EF00:9061:DDFC:B88A:4496]] ([[User talk:2001:4456:C7F:EF00:9061:DDFC:B88A:4496|talk]]) 09:07, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello. Can you give more information?  Which discussion do you want to close? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::I'd also like to add that you may want to check out [[WP:Closing discussions|Closing discussions]], a page about how and when to close discussions. happy editing! &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 09:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Confusing redirects ==

I noticed "municipal home rule" redirects to [[Home rule in the United States]] but "home rule municipality", "home rule town", and "home rule city" redirect to [[Devolution]]. This is confusing but I'm not sure what to do about it. Disambiguation?
Also, "[[Charter city]]" is synonymous with "home rule city", as far as I know, and I've proposed merging Charter city into Home rule in the U.S.
Thoughts? [[User:Seananony|Seananony]] ([[User talk:Seananony|talk]]) 04:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Welcome to teahouse! I do not see how Disambiguation would help here. I would edit change the targets of the 3 redirects [[Home rule municipality]] [[home rule town]] [[home rule city]] to [[Home rule in the United States]]. The redirects were created in 2006, while [[Home rule in the United States]] was created in 2010. Regarding your merge, I see you started a discussion at [[Talk:Home_rule_in_the_United_States#Merger_proposal:_Charter_cities]] which is the right way to go. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 10:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== George Russell composer ==

[[George Russell (composer)]]  As George Russell's biographer, I want t0 edit his Wikipedia entry. Can anyone tell me how to do this? I am not techie, so please keep it simple. [[User:Dr. D. A. Heining|Dr. D. A. Heining]] ([[User talk:Dr. D. A. Heining|talk]]) 10:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Dr. D. A. Heining}} Hello and welcome.  I edited your link to the article, the whole url is not needed.  Please first declare your conflict of interest on your user page([[User:Dr. D. A. Heining]]).  If you write out a statement, that will suffice.  Please see [[WP:COI]] for information on best practices, and also see [[WP:ER|edit requests]] for how you can propose changes to the article.  You should do that on its talk page([[Talk:George Russell (composer)]]). [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 10:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:I've added information to your user talk page, which provides some more explanation. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 10:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry, being new to this I am not sure what my conflict of interest might be. The article contains errors, is incomplete and it seems strange that it includes no reference to the only official biography on Russell. [[User:Dr. D. A. Heining|Dr. D. A. Heining]] ([[User talk:Dr. D. A. Heining|talk]]) 11:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::You wrote that you are his biographer.  I take that to mean that he designated you as such before he passed. That is clearly a conflict of interest.  This does not mean that you cannot contribute, only that you do so as I described. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:07, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Does that mean that I cannot amend the entry? That seems strange. If you look at Grove, for example, many of the musicians' entries are by their biographers. Likewise, the entry for Biography in Britannica was written by the doyen of biographers Paul Murray Kendall, author of the Art of Biography. [[User:Dr. D. A. Heining|Dr. D. A. Heining]] ([[User talk:Dr. D. A. Heining|talk]]) 11:17, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Wikipedia is different from other websites.  Articles are typically written by independent editors unaffiliated with the subject. (example, White House staff shouldn't be editing the [[Joe Biden]] article directly) As I said, your conflict of interest '''does not mean that you cannot contribute'''. it only means you will need to propose your changes in the form of an [[WP:ER|edit request]] on the talk page(unless they are the most minor like fixing spelling). If you find doing so too challenging, please post on the article talk page anyway, proposing a single change you want to see, and I can mark it as an edit request for you. (it's better to propose a change at a time than a wholesale rewrite or many changes simultaneously) [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Help with page moves at Hard Rock Cafe  ==

Hello! Matthew here with Seminole Hard Rock Support Services at Hard Rock International. 
 
Over on the [[Talk:Hard_Rock_Cafe#Proposed_content_restructure|Hard Rock Cafe talk page]], I've proposed splitting the [[Hard Rock Cafe]] page to [[Hard Rock International]] and [[Hard Rock hotels and casinos]], in order to separate out text about the restaurant brand from the parent company and Hard Rock's properties. I've saved [[Draft:Hard Rock International]] and [[Draft:Hard Rock hotels and casinos]] to show what the pages would look like. Another editor has supported the split but suggested I seek help with the page and section moves. I've asked for assistance at a few pages and an editor recommended I come here. 
 
Are any editors here at the Teahouse able to help? Thanks! [[User:MattHardRockInt|MattHardRockInt]] ([[User talk:MattHardRockInt|talk]]) 13:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Subject: Help with Writing an Article for Wikipedia ==

Message: Hello, I am Vinod Kumar Chaudhary, and I have achieved 20 Guinness World Records, including surpassing Sachin Tendulkar's 19 records. I have also been involved in social work and run an institute that helps students gain skills in computer training and typing. I want to create a Wikipedia article about my achievements, but I need help ensuring that the article meets Wikipedia's guidelines for neutrality, verifiability, and reliable sources.

Could someone please guide me on how to properly structure my article and ensure it complies with Wikipedia's core content policies? I would also appreciate advice on how to cite reliable sources for my accomplishments.&nbsp;[[User:WorldTypistMaster|WorldTypistMaster]] ([[User talk:WorldTypistMaster|talk]]) 13:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello. My advice to you is to abandon this effort. Writing about yourself, while not absolutely forbidden, is highly discouraged, please read the [[WP:AUTO|autobiography policy]]. Wikipedia is not interested in what someone says about themselves, or merely documenting their achievements. Wikipedia articles are typically written by independent editors wholly unconnected with the subject, and summarize what independent [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the subject, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of [[WP:N|notability]], like [[WP:BIO|a notable person]]. You would need to set aside everything you know about yourself, all materials you put out(like interviews), and all mere documentation of your activities, and only summarize what other choose on their own to say about you. Most people have great difficulty doing that. The best indicator of notability is when an independent editor takes note of a topic in reliable sources and chooses to write about it.
:Also be aware [[WP:PROUD|an article about yourself is not necessarily a good thing]]. There are good reasons to not want one. If you just want to tell the world about what you see as your achievements, you should use social media or a personal website. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 13:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Templates ==

Are articles or entries based on pre-established templates or can they be contributed using p-lain English prose? [[User:TrevorGlynLocke|TrevorGlynLocke]] ([[User talk:TrevorGlynLocke|talk]]) 13:08, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:You can edit it with plain English as long as it is constructive to the article. [[User:TypoEater|TypoEater]] ([[User talk:TypoEater|talk]]) 13:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Source insufficiency related [[en:Draft:Thind]]  ==

Hi I eventually found a topic which I think need an minimal  to  brought this topic in limelight due to lack of source certainty   and impartiality to relay on a single source is not an solution so I would like some genuine intervention from other wikipedian for better assessment showcasing Thind clan origin [[Special:Contributions/38.25.26.28|38.25.26.28]] ([[User talk:38.25.26.28|talk]]) 16:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, IP user. I'm having difficulty understanding exactly what you are asking, but I think you're saying that you think there should be an article about the Thind clan, but you can't find much in the way of sources?
:If you can't find any (or very few) sources which are reliable, independent, and contain significant coverage (see [[WP:42|42]]) then almost by definition, the subject does not meet Wikipeda's criteria for [[WP:notability|notability]], and no article is possible. If you think the subject does meet those criteria, it is up to you to find the sources: it is unlikely that anybody else is going to be willing to do this fundamental part of the work on the article. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Source self-published by awarder of prize ==

Hello all, yesterday I appended additional info and a citation to the (previously unsourced) listing of the award Premio Cinema Ludus in the "Selected filmography section" of [[Emmanuelle Riva]]. I see that this generated a tag "citing a blog or free web host" on my edit in the revision history for the article. It's true that the source is self-published on Blogger by the entity that awarded the prize. I think that's acceptable in this instance, because they're not really making a claim about the person (Riva) but rather a claim about themselves, namely the inarguable assertion that they have awarded this prize to Riva.  But I'd like to hear others' takes on this.  Thanks in advance for your input.
[[User:Monkeysoap|Monkeysoap]] ([[User talk:Monkeysoap|talk]]) 15:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, Monkeysoap. I agree that a [[WP:SPS|SPS]] is adequate for supporting that claim; but if you can't find any independent sources about that award, I wonder whether it is really encyclopaedic? Not all available information about a subject necessarily belongs in an article about it. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:18, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::If the award doesn’t have its own article showing notability it shouldn’t be mentioned. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== I drafted a page in wikipedia sandbox and published ==

I drafted a page in wikipedia sandbox and published, how long will  it take to approve i [[User:Gorinu|Gorinu]] ([[User talk:Gorinu|talk]]) 16:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:Your draft at [[User:Gorinu/sandbox]] has not been submitted to Articles for Creation (AfC) for review. ("Publish" means save.) [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::Now at [[Draft:Abdulla Al Nuaimi]], submitted and Declined. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 19:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Where is a good place to arbitrate a disagreement? ==

Another editor and I disagree about the usefulness of some material I added to an article. Is there a place I could get input from a third party if we can't reach an agreement ourselves? [[User:Moonreach|Moonreach]] ([[User talk:Moonreach|talk]]) 18:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Yes, see [[WP:DR|dispute resolution channels]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 18:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::Perfect, thank you. [[User:Moonreach|Moonreach]] ([[User talk:Moonreach|talk]]) 18:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|Moonreach}}, if this has to do with your recent edit to [[Saturn in fiction]], then your first step should be to explain your edit at [[Talk:Saturn in fiction]], and ping the editor who reverted you. The [[WP:BRD|Bold, revert, discuss]] process is highly recommended.  That particular article has achieved [[WP:GA|Good article]] status, and interested editors want to maintain its status. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::::It is, thank you. I left a message on the other editor's talk page, but if the conversation continues I'll try to move it to the talk page. [[User:Moonreach|Moonreach]] ([[User talk:Moonreach|talk]]) 19:25, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Moonreach}}, I suggest that you take it to the talk page now. That is the best practice and encourages participation by other editors. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 23:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Drafts and Redirects ==

Hi, I hope someone can help me. I am new to Wiki and have made a few errors as I've been learning. I submitted my first draft of an article but it was rejected because I didn't do my citations correct. I thought I fixed them and resubmitted but then haven't heard anything in months. I tried to edit the original article but then I just decided to start over. I entered {db-userreq}  (but with double { }) at the beginning of the article to delete it (I found this in a wiki article on how to delete a draft).

I wrote a new article in my sandbox, made some improvements from the first article and redid all my citations,  and then tried to move it to the mainspace and I'm not sure what happened. Even though I thought the original page was deleted, it said I already had an article with that name so I tried changing the name of my article. Then somehow I ended up with a bunch of redirects and now I think I have two articles with similar names. 

The link below is the article I want to submit. I'm lost though...

[[DeAnn L. Prosia (Artist)]]. [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 04:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:I [[Special:Diff/1244954732|turned]] the duplicate at {{-r|Draft:DeAnn L. Prosia}} into a [[WP:redirect|redirect]] to the existing article at {{la|DeAnn L. Prosia (Artist)}}, which is waiting for a [[WP:NPP|new page patroller]] to review it. If you leave the other redirects alone, a bot will come along and fix them as needed. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 05:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::I have two other questions. When I go to my sandbox and click on the user page it redirects to the article - is that correct? I didn't think my sandbox was supposed to redirect to an article.
::Also, I can't seem to remember how I submitted my last article. This article doesn't show as a draft - do I need to move it somewhere first to submit it for review? Thanks again for your help. [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 15:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Any page move you do will create a automatically create a redirect at the old title; this is to avoid breaking any wikilinks to the old title. For example, the "(Artist)" page now has a redirect, so any wikilinks to "(Artist)" still lead to the intended article.
:::In the case of your sandbox, breaking wikilinks is not really a concern. You can go to the redirect itself at {{-r|User:CrissCollab/sandbox}} and replace it with something else ({{tl|User sandbox}}, for example).
:::As for the article, you bypassed the submission process entirely. That's fine when the article creator has no [[WP:conflict of interest|conflict of interest]] with the article subject. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 17:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Oh, hmmm, not sure how I did that. Do I need to submit it somewhere or everything is fine? [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 18:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::If I just google "DeAnn L. Prosia wikipedia", the talk page comes up - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DeAnn_L._Prosia
:::::But if I go to wiki and then type "DeAnn L. Prosia" into the searchbar the regular page comes up...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeAnn_L._Prosia
:::::I guess I'm just not sure if the page is live or if I still need to do something else. Thanks so much for all of your help and support. I'm a learn as I go kinda person and I've realized wiki doesn't really operate like that. [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 18:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{tq|do I need to move it somewhere first}} in short: I would refrain from any more page moves unless someone else suggests it. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 17:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Okay thanks! I got confused and thought I needed to move it to the mainspace in order to submit it for review. That's how I ended up with all the redirects. [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 18:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:For that matter, I moved the article back to [[DeAnn L. Prosia]] because [the English-language] Wikipedia [[WP:CONCISE|prefers the shorter title]] whenever posible. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 05:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 15:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

=== Comment moved to restore threading ===

Actually, if I type the page name into wiki it says the page does not exist and to make a draft and submit it, but then the page also shows below: https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=DeAnn+L+Prosia&title=Special%3ASearch&ns0=1 <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CrissCollab|contribs]]) 18:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)</small>
:Please excuse the moving of the above; I try to avoid this per the [[WP:TPO|rules on editing other people's comments]]. However, the comment was interfering with the threading—affecting readability. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 21:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:Sometimes [[WP:BYPASS|clearing your browser's cache]] or [[WP:PURGE|page's server cache]] solves the problem. Usually problems do not persist beyond a day. As for appearing on search engine results, that will occur after ninety days or after a new page patroller marks the article as reviewed (details at [[WP:NOINDEX]]). [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 23:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Me at the zoo to FA ==

Hello, Wikipedia editors. My current goal is to get [[Me at the zoo|this article]] to featured article status before April 2025. However, a couple of editors have brought two major issues: the article's confusing structure and its overuse of quotes. I've went ahead and (kind of) took care of the first issue, though I could use a bit more advice on how to cut down quotes. Any other constructive feedback is appreciated. Thanks, [[User:TrademarkedTWOrantula|<span style="color: darkgreen"><span style="font-family: Georgia">TWOrantula</span></span>]]<sup><small>TM</small></sup> <small>([[User talk:TrademarkedTWOrantula|enter the web]])</small> 02:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:STATUS: [[Me at the zoo]] is GA and from the history, you proposed it for FA two days ago, got comments, and decided to withdraw the nomination for now. You did take it through two cycles of peer review before nominated for FA, so definitely on the right track.  [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Thumbnail image that appears when searching an article ==

How does one get the thumbnail image to appear when typing in a search? [[User:CrissCollab|CrissCollab]] ([[User talk:CrissCollab|talk]]) 00:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|CrissCollab}} See [[:mw:Extension:PageImages#Image choice]]. If you are thinking of [[DeAnn L. Prosia]] then note the image has to be in the lead section, meaning before the first section heading. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{reply to|CrissCollab}} Regarding the Prosia article, you might also consider using [[Template:Infobox artist]]. It's pretty common in articles on artists. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 04:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Request help with edit/approval for Women Scientist bio Judith J. Warren ==
I created a bio article for Judith J. Warren, Nursing Infomatics pioneer [[Draft:Judith J. Warren (Nursing Informatics Specialist)]], but I am struggling to get help with editing and approval. I have gone to the women in science project, but those talk pages haven’t had anything on them since 2018 and I am wondering if I am looking in the wrong places to post, but I have been pretty thorough in looking and I just keep coming up short. This is my second article and I would like to publish more especially for women scientists. I want to know my mistakes with the article and of course I do want it approved, but I am trying to learn from my mistakes. 

Another question I have - can I publish articles without needing it to be approved? I have 31 edits via my account? If so, is there a different type of creation process? Meaning am I using the wrong type of sandbox? [[User:Logger67|Logger67]] ([[User talk:Logger67|talk]]) 21:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi {{u|Logger67}}, have you checked the [[WP:N|notability]] guidelines for [[WP:SCHOLAR|academics]] and the other related guidelines–[[WP:NPOV|NPOV]], [[WP:PROOF|verifiability]], etc? There is a backlog of around 1600 drafts, please have patience and enjoy the place. A reviewer will soon review the draft and decide further. Meanwhile you can improve your submission and ask for the help from [[WP:WOMEN]]. --[[User:Ratekreel|Ratekreel]] ([[User talk:Ratekreel|talk]]) 21:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:New accounts cannot directly create articles; even if you can, it's inadvisable until you get some experience in having drafts accepted. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 21:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::Hello, {{u|Logger66}}. I suggest that you read [[Wikipedia:Citation overkill]] because it looks to me like your draft suffers from that problem, which can make [[WP:AFC|Articles for creation]] reviewers suspicious. I see one assertion in your draft followed by nine references. Why? That implies that the assertion is highly controversial. Is it? You made a simple statement of fact {{tpq|In 2003, Warren was elected as a Fellow in the American College of Medical Informatics}} which is followed by three references. One reference should be sufficient unless there is some kind of doubt about the truth of this statement. Please keep in mind that the quality of the references is ''vastly'' more important than their quantity. Six excellent references are far better than 30 mediocre references. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 23:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::For help with writing biographies of women, take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red]]. {{u|Jesswade88}} is a physicist and an editor acclaimed for creating thousands of biographies of women scientists. Maybe she will have a comment. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 00:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:There's quite a bit of editorializing. Example, "She holds the distinction of being [...]", meaning "She was [...]". And yes, full agreement with [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] (above) on the matter of multiple references. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 01:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:I was struck by 

::Her research on the SNOMED CT Nursing Problem List Subset, co-authored with Susan A. Matney, Jonathan L. Evans, Tae Youn Kim, Amy Coenen, and Vivian A. Auld, has significantly advanced nursing informatics.

:It's rare to come across a claim that research ''X'' has significantly advanced field ''Y''; but of course it can happen, and this claim comes with four references. I looked at them.

:One source (nim.nih.gov) is a description of "Nursing Problem List Subset of SNOMED CT". Near the end of this description, we read:

::We welcome any questions, comments or suggestions that would improve the quality, accuracy, and usability of the subset. Please send feedback to Dr. Judy Warren and Dr. Susan Matey.

:[from which I have removed email addresses]. So it seems to have been cowritten by Warren and even if not is tied to her. Two more references are to papers cowritten by Warren. The fourth reference is to a page about Warren from the institution of which she is Professor Emerita.

:So although the claim that "Her research [...] has significantly advanced nursing informatics" comes with four references, not one of them is to a disinterested source for the claim. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 03:05, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::Refs 31-41 are to journal articles for which she is one of many authors, so those do not verify the text those follow. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:36, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::More than eleven, [[User:David notMD|David notMD]]. The article [[Judith J. Warren]] currently has 49 references (though it's obvious that several are repeated). At a quick count, 25 of these references are described as having Warren as a coauthor. (The count may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure that there are over 20.) Where these are used as references, they're feebly adequate at best. Where they're being used for other purposes (e.g. to provide examples of generalizations), they should instead be presented as notes (probably using [[Template:Efn]] or one of its minor variants, such as [[Template:Efn-lr]].) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Layout differences in Wikipedia language editions ==

I noticed that there are huge differences how the content is presented in e.g. the English, French, and German Wikipedia. How come? Dos the admin team leave a lot of freedom to their respective teams editing certain language editions? [[User:Evelox|Evelox]] ([[User talk:Evelox|talk]]) 07:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Evelox|Evelox]] This was answered on the live chat by @[[User:Jmcgnh|Jmcgnh]], but you may have missed their response. Here it is for reference:
:Each language Wikipedia is an independent project and relatively few editors work on more than one project. Editing decisions are made by volunteer editors; admins have nothing at all to do with determining who edits what. <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">Qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 08:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you. I just saw the answer. Understood. Just looking at the translation tool now. [[User:Evelox|Evelox]] ([[User talk:Evelox|talk]]) 09:31, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== how to thumbnail image to appear when typing in a search? ==

First question in my mind, how to thumbnail image to appear when typing in a search? [[User:Fewword|Fewword]] ([[User talk:Fewword|talk]]) 04:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|Fewword}}, are you asking which image becomes the thumbnail? That would be the first freely licensed image in the lead. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 05:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank You [[User:Fewword|Fewword]] ([[User talk:Fewword|talk]]) 05:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Fewword}} There are more detailed rules at [[:mw:Extension:PageImages#Image choice]] but it usually just gives the first freely licensed image in the lead (excluding small icons). [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== US Census Records ==

Are US census records considered  reliable, published sources? [[User:DonL tx|DonL tx]] ([[User talk:DonL tx|talk]]) 19:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:[[WP:RSCONTEXT|Depends on the context]]. In my experience, I see US census records used as primary sources and thus subject to the [[WP:PRIMARYUSE|caveats and considerations on their use]]. [[User:Rotideypoc41352|Rotideypoc41352]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Rotideypoc41352|contribs]]) 22:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Hello, {{u|DonL tx}}. The reliability of national census results is never 100%, and there is always a small margin of error. The 2020 census was especially challenging because it took place in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic which led to increased distrust of government. Here is a link to a [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/who-was-undercounted-overcounted-in-2020-census.html US Census description of its statistical accuracy]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 23:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I would like to use specific individual lines in the US Censes for 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940 and 1950 to provide documentation of a specific location in a specific year. [[User:DonL tx|DonL tx]] ([[User talk:DonL tx|talk]]) 00:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:DonL tx|DonL tx]] There is a specific template {{tl|US Census population}} that is widely used (see "what links here" on the template page) if that's the use you had in mind. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Triple: What to ask on the Help Desk, am I a newcomer by now, and what do do for a citation. ==

I was going to post this on the Help Desk, but I thought this would be a safe option, but then I had thoughts on if I was considered not a newcomer yet, and my original question was on how to add citations. Pardon me if that sentence seems like a run-on. [[User:3.14159265459AAAs|3.14]] ([[User talk:3.14159265459AAAs|talk]]) 21:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
: [[User:3.14159265459AAAs|3.14]], try [[Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/1]] ''et seq.'' -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::I may be biased, but Teahouse Hosts are usually (not always) nicer than Help responders. Just don't ask the same question at both. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|David notMD}} I read an archived discussion where people floated the idea of closing [[Help:Desk]], to have one place to ask questions. Several editors said they did not like that people were required to be courteous at [[WP:TEA]]. The explanation they offered was that people were brusque or downright hostile on other talk pages, so it gave them an inconsistent user experience. {{pb}}{{reply to|3.14159265459AAAs}} I don't think anyone should ever get turned away from this page for being too experienced. It's a benefit to the project to have a starting place to ask questions. Are you doing citations in the visual editor or the source editor? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 04:38, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I believe that Teahouse Host self-select to be patient, even when over and over again, a new editor asks how to create an article about themself, their business, etc. Howeve, showing up with an attitude can elicit a reply that is not hindered be an excess of tact. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I use the visual editor, because I do not understand coding. [[User:3.14159265459AAAs|3.14]] ([[User talk:3.14159265459AAAs|talk]]) 15:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{reply to|3.14159265459AAAs}} Yeah, you're not alone there. Check out [[Help:Introduction to referencing with VisualEditor/2]]. It's linked from the page {{u|Hoary}} suggested. It's pretty straightforward to add automatic citations or use one of the 4 common templates ({{tl|cite web}}, {{tl|cite book}}, {{tl|cite journal}}, and {{tl|cite news}}). If you make automatic citations be sure to check them because the software can make errors.{{pb}}To use other templates (like {{tl|cite AV media}} or {{tl|cite patent}}): go to <code>"Cite &rarr; Manual &rarr; Basic</code> and either type <code>{{</code> or select <code>+v &rarr; Template</code>. That'll bring up a search box to type in the name of the template you need, and you can just fill it out like a form. Some people also hand write their citations instead of using templates ([[WP:CITEVAR]]). Feel free to ask any follow up questions, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 15:47, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== want to donate, but not want to give PAN details ==

hi

as per subject I want to donate, but I do not want to give PAN details. Pls exclude PAN details, thanks [[Special:Contributions/180.94.35.43|180.94.35.43]] ([[User talk:180.94.35.43|talk]]) 08:16, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:I'm not sure what "PAN" means; but there are many ways to donate, including mailing a paper check. Click "other ways to give" at the bottom of the donation page https://donate.wikimedia.org/ [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::"Note that we currently cannot accept checks from France, India, Italy, or Spain" [[Special:Contributions/180.94.35.43|180.94.35.43]] ([[User talk:180.94.35.43|talk]]) 08:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::You didn't say where you were from.  Perhaps you can communicate with the Foundation to explore ways you might be able to donate, email donate@wikimedia.org to contact them. Also know that the Foundation's finances are stable; it's not vital that you donate. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::okay [[Special:Contributions/180.94.35.43|180.94.35.43]] ([[User talk:180.94.35.43|talk]]) 08:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::PAN means "permanent account number", used by the Ministry of Finance in India. Apparently it's analogous to the US social security number. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 16:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== wikiconsultancyinc.com ==

This firm has contacted me and for a fee offered to write a page. Has anyone else used them? [[User:Maggie Humm|Maggie Humm]] ([[User talk:Maggie Humm|talk]]) 19:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Maggie Humm|Maggie Humm]] Not to disparage them at all before anyone answers this, but I wouldn't touch anyone coming to you saying they can write a page for a fee with a 10 foot pole. Or any pole, for that matter. Please see [[WP:SCAM]]. 
:People can't guarantee that the page will even pass the notability criteria or the [[WP:AFC|articles for creation process]], so trying to extract a fee for writing a page just sounds... Fishy, in the simplest terms. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 19:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::The person who writes an article for pay is required to state that they are paid, and there is no guarentee that an article would not be soon deleted if it does not meet Wikipedia standards. Volunteers in New Pages Patrol try to look at all new articles, and have the option of converting to draft state or even Speedy deletion. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 19:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:An editor employed by Wiki Consultancy to create or merely work on an article ''XYZ'' is required to state conspicuously that they've been paid by Wiki Consultancy (or some minor spelling variation thereof) to do this. But when I search for "wikiconsultancy", "wiki consultancy" or "wikiconsultancyinc", all I find is [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/BrookeCook/Archive#09_January_2024_2]]. There are various imaginable explanations for this: (i) the declaration was made, but on a page that was subsequently deleted; (ii) the declaration was made (on a page that still exists) but subsequently deleted; (iii) the declaration wasn't made (a breach of Wikipedia's terms of service); (iv) "Wiki Consultancy" (or however you care to spell it) hasn't actually done any work here. [[User:Maggie Humm|Maggie Humm]], consider asking them where you can see ''evidence'' of their good work. (I expect that you'll get either no response or an entirely vapid response.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:Any time you get a cold contact to write a Wikipedia article for you, it's a scam. If you want to move forward with it, first demand to know the identity of the account that will write the article and where the account discloses its paid editing status. If they won't answer, or give some excuse not to answer, or deflect the question, the run away.
:This might get added to [[Wikipedia:List of paid editing companies]]. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 17:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Kevin Hays jazz pianist ==

The “Sangha Quartet” was co-lead by Seamus Blake and Kevin Hays, and should be listed under the section which features Kevin Hays as a co-leader. In fact, the liner notes for the CD lists Seamus and Kevin as co-producers as well.
Thank you for your consideration of this proposed amendment.
Dan Blake [[User:Danblake41|Danblake41]] ([[User talk:Danblake41|talk]]) 19:23, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Danblake41}}. The article [[Kevin Hays]] is not protected. Feel free to edit it. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:If you are not comfortable making the change yourself, the place you should propose it is at [[Talk:Kevin Hays]]. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 19:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Question about notability and a new subject ==

Hello,

I'm considering creating a new article (having made a number of new articles on living individuals and other subjects in the past) on a living individual named Carroll Stevens. I know this person, but have no family, financial, or organizational relationship with him. Before doing so, I wanted feedback on whether this individual, prima facie, merits inclusion in Wikipedia per significance and notability.

==> If this is the wrong place to post this type of question, I would greatly welcome feedback on where the right place to post a question like this! :)

Here's a summary of this person's bona fides:
* Associate Dean for Development at Yale Law School, and leadership or governance positions at five other colleges and universities.
* Senior Fellow and strategic advisor to the Stupski Foundation, created by the emeritus COO and Vice Chairman of the Charles Schwab company, where he provided quality-assurance of the Foundation’s interventions in 23 urban school districts.
* Co-founder of Achievement First, one of the premier charter school networks in the country. 
* Senior Vice President at Mott MacDonald, where he guided their education reform work in North America
* Senior executive at Cambridge Education, a leading provider of education services in the United States with projects in nearly 600 districts that improve learning outcomes by highlighting programs that build capacity for teachers and education leaders. Cambridge Education was conceived and born at Cambridge University.
* President of the Loan Repayment Assistance Programs (LRAP) Foundation, a leading organization devoted to promoting accessibility and success in higher education.
* Trustee at the Lillian Goldman Charitable Trust. 
Source: https://www.cmc.edu/news/carroll-stevens-named-cmc-vice-president-of-advancement

I have a few more sources mentioning Stevens, but no dedicated articles in major media. He seems like a person with significant recognition in terms of his credentials and roles. Is that enough?

* On the last page of this Yale PDF: https://ylr.law.yale.edu/pdfs/v51-2/NiB51-2.pdf
* Interim role announcement on University of Oxford's website: https://www.rpc.ox.ac.uk/honorary-fellow-to-serve-as-interim-president-of-rhodes-college/
* Quote from Stevens on subject matter from Taipei Times: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2004/05/04/2003154058
* Video of Stevens presenting from University of Kentucky: https://heyburncollections.org/items/show/429
* University of Kentucky list of "visiting committee" members: https://law.uky.edu/alumni-giving/uk-j-david-rosenberg-college-law-visiting-committee

Does this kind of media suggest notability? If so, I can work more on a full article, but I don't want to invest time in creating an article from this, if the material itself is obviously unacceptable. Thanks for any input! [[User:Stevemidgley|Stevemidgley]] ([[User talk:Stevemidgley|talk]]) 20:31, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Stevemidgley|Stevemidgley]], for someone like this you're looking at [[WP:NPROF]]. Most of the links you've given aren't useful here (no one really cares, for notability purposes, if someone has made such-and-such a presentation somewhere), but an associate dean at Yale sounds like someone pretty likely to be notable. Unfortunately in this case it looks like he may have that job because he's good at fundraising, which isn't the same thing as being a notable professor. Have a look at the guidelines at [[WP:NPROF]] and see what you think. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 20:38, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== Question about page for speedy deletion ==

Hi, recently i submit article for review, its tagged now for speedy deletion. Please let me know why, Let me know in detail please how i can improve things in it to be able to get published
Thank you [[User:Danishseo421|Danishseo421]] ([[User talk:Danishseo421|talk]]) 21:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:It was deleted as blatant promotion. If you were attempting to write about yourself, that is inadvisable, see the [[WP:AUTO|autobiography policy]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 21:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== GA/L ==

Hello mates, I have seen Featured Lists on [[WP:SWIFT]] and [[WP:EILISH]]. However, I have never seen a "Good List" so my question is, can a list (like discography or videography) ever become GA? Can it be nominated for GA? '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' ([[User talk:dxneo|talk]]) 16:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Dxneo|Dxneo]] There is, in fact, no such thing as a Good List. I'm absolutely certain there's something out there showing the side by side progression of lists and articles but I can't for the life of me find it. I don't believe they can be nominated for GA status.  [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 16:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you [[User:CommissarDoggo|CommissarDoggo]]. Thought it was possible, what a pain. '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' ([[User talk:dxneo|talk]]) 16:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Dxneo|Dxneo]], the criteria for FL are more equivalent to GA than they are to FA, so if you find FA overwhelming that doesn't mean you won't be able to put together a list that meets the FL criteria. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 20:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you {{U|Asilvering}}, thought I had no chance. I will notify you on how it goes on your talk. Again, thank you so much. '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' ([[User talk:dxneo|talk]]) 22:05, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I think for now, I'll go for [[WP:PR|PR]] first. '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' ([[User talk:dxneo|talk]]) 00:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::Found it: [[WP:MHA#SCALE]] [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 16:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

== What can I do if my Draft Review keep declining ==

Hello,

I have this Article I've been working on for a couple of weeks now [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=Draft%3ADavide%20Lombardi&title=Special%3ASearch&wprov=acrw1_0] I'm trying really hard to see it approved. I tried as much as I could to show that the source provided nobility of the living person.

Please I'm Optimistic and I really want to see the Article approved, I need help! [[User:Denovoj|Denovoj]] ([[User talk:Denovoj|talk]]) 22:39, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello {{U|Denovoj}}, to avoid rejection, you ''must'' address the issues raised by the reviewer(s). Since this is a biography of a living person, you should probably see [[WP:NBIO]]. Tip: The opening statement must be about why the subject is notable/famous, name dropping people they have worked with doesn't help. {{Background colour|lavender|Please do reach out (on my talk) for further assistance}}. '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' ([[User talk:dxneo|talk]]) 00:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{U|Denovoj}}, your first sentence says that he is "award winning" followed by heavy duty name dropping. Consider [[Bob Dylan]], who has won awards including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, an Academy Award, a Pulitzer Prize and the Nobel Prize for Literature. And many, many more. But Dylan's biography does not call him "award winning" because that is promotional language which does not belong on Wikipedia. The lengthy list of people Lombardi has worked for implies that he is notable because he has notable clients, which is incorrect. In this case, your draft later says he has won just one non-notable award, given by a non-notable trade publication called ''Pro Sound News''. And I had to use Google Translate to read your reference to learn which award it was because you do not tell us in your draft. Why should an encyclopedia even mention this non-notable award?

::Phrases like {{tpq|driven by a passion for music and sound engineering}} and {{tpq|Throughout his career, Lombardi has contributed to numerous projects that integrate diverse musical genres and traditions}} and {{tpq|His expertise has been utilized in significant events}} and {{tpq|garnered significant recognition}} are not acceptable in an encyclopedia. These phrases are promotional and convey no genuine information to the reader of an encyclopedia. The [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] is a mandatory core content policy. 

::There are several other problems with your draft but these are the big ones that I noticed. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 02:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I agree with all of this, as well as the word “notable”/“notably” being used a lot, which is odd and just looks like it’s trying to prove notability. [[user:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#70A67A">-- NotC</span><span style="color:#396340">hariza</span><span style="color:#0D2311">rd</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#0D2311">🗨</span>]]</sup> 02:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:Hello, I am an AfC reviewer. Something that stands out within a second is that there are three citations after the subjects name, the first word of the article. What is being confirmed by the citation there? His name? That he exists? It looks like [[Wikipedia:REFBOMBING|reference bombing]] which can make a reviewer suspicious of all citations and if they’re actually relevant at all to what statements they claim to be supporting.
:As said before, a list of people he’s worked with in the lead is not appropriate. He needs to be notable by his own merit.
:Note that when a reviewer says “not supported by good sources” they do not mean add more sources, they mean more independent (not connected with him) and reliable sources are needed to show notability. While everything needs to be sourced, pick the most quality source for each statement and just use that - multiple sources for a statement (unless it’s controversial) does not help at all.
:Im on my phone, so can’t do full review of all the sources right now, but these issues stand out to me at first glance. [[user:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#70A67A">-- NotC</span><span style="color:#396340">hariza</span><span style="color:#0D2311">rd</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#0D2311">🗨</span>]]</sup> 02:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::After having a look at a few random sources in the career section, they do not seem to actually mention Lombardi (purely based on searching the page for his name) which confirms the earlier suspicions. [[user:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#70A67A">-- NotC</span><span style="color:#396340">hariza</span><span style="color:#0D2311">rd</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Notcharizard|<span style="color:#0D2311">🗨</span>]]</sup> 02:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== Expanding a stub ==

I'd like to make an article on this musicologist. [[:d:Q55943190]] Can I use Afc or is the process different? [[User:Allthemilescombined1|Allthemilescombined1]] ([[User talk:Allthemilescombined1|talk]]) 22:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:You can wither submit a draft through AfC or just create the article [[Michael Brim Beckerman|directly]], provided you are confident the subject meets our notability guidelines. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 23:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:You can use [[WP:AFC]] to create an article. Make sure to read [[WP:Your First Article]] and be mindful of [[WP:NBLP]]. [[User:Quxyz|<span style="color: goldenrod">✶Qux</span>]][[User talk:Quxyz|<span style="color: goldenrod">yz</span>]][[special:contributions/Quxyz|<span style="color: goldenrod">✶</span>]] 23:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:A stub is an article already created that needs to be improved. What you are trying to do is create a new article. Kindly follow the guideline stated above by @[[User:Quxyz|Quxyz]]. Best of luck! [[User:Tesleemah|Tesleemah]] ([[User talk:Tesleemah|talk]]) 03:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== Autoconfirmed users and a question about notices ==

G'day!

While editing recently, I came across a notice indicating that only autoconfirmed users are permitted to edit a particular page. Upon further investigation, I discovered that an autoconfirmed user is defined as someone with 4 days and 10 edits to their account, while an extended confirmed user has 30 days and 500 edits. My question is: Should I keep an eye on my own user status, or can I assume that if I am able to edit a page, it means my user status meets the necessary criteria? [[User:KiltedKangaroo|KiltedKangaroo]] ([[User talk:KiltedKangaroo|talk]]) 08:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hello.  The system will only permit you to edit articles/pages that you have the ability to edit.  You don't need to specifically monitor your status to avoid editing articles/pages that you shouldn't, as that can't happen.  Certainly you can follow your edit count/account age for your own personal information. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 08:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Hi {{u|KiltedKangaroo}}. I believe the Wikipedia software is able to detect when your user status meets the requirements for editing protected articles; so, being able to edit the article in question means your account has been upgraded to a new status. Whether you want to monitor your progress is completely up to you. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 08:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== "Head of state" and "head of government" as short description ==

What should I propose of [[WP:SDNOTDEF]] for the "head of state" and "head of government" for titles of European monarchs, unlike presidents, prime ministers, or monarchs have titles in short description. For example, [[WP:SDNOTDEF]] does not apply to some titles, like [[President of the United States]], [[Prime Minister of Canada]] and [[Emperor of Japan]]? [[User:Ferretville|Ferretville]] ([[User talk:Ferretville|talk]]) 22:31, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

:hen I say "the point of a short description is to serve as a navigational aid", do you feel you know what that means? <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 23:27, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::"Navigational aid" does not exist at [[Wikipedia:Short description]]. [[User:Ferretville|Ferretville]] ([[User talk:Ferretville|talk]]) 23:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Do you know what "navigational aid" means? <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 23:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
::::It's part of the scope, "head of government" meaning a navigational aid for titles of any prime minister. {{ping|GhostInTheMachine}} Any questions? [[User:Ferretville|Ferretville]] ([[User talk:Ferretville|talk]]) 23:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I wish I didn't have to be insistent about this, but given your responses so far it seems almost certain to me that your English comprehension is very poor, to the extent where I think you should really refrain from making sensitive edits to an English-language encyclopedia. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 00:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Have I made sufficiently clear that "navigational aid" means "a tool to aid readers trying to navigate the site"? If a reader comes across the article title "Monarchy of Monaco" in a search or after visiting the article on mobile, the scope of that article is not going to be unclear to them. It is not likely that they will confuse what that article is about with any other article. As such, they do not need anything more to help them navigate to the article they want. So, a short description is not required. Does that make sense?<span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 01:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::OP blocked as sock of [[user:SwissArmyGuy]] [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 08:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I really have to start trusting my instincts that say "this person knows what they're doing" more. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 08:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== Crazy  ==

There's something somehow crazy about Wikipedia on article's citation and notability. A notable article I created with references but had been earlier deleted is even being denied dratification talk less of undeletion, [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 September 1|see]], while another article that I moved to the draftspace for further improvement as the article creator failed to cite any source was [[Demas Akpore|returned to mainspace]]. What do you advice me to do to the latter article as I can't find enough references (for now) to improve this article. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 07:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Josedimaria237|Josedimaria237]] I'll comment just on [[Demas Akpore]], which was the one you draftified and was restored to mainspace by an admin. That article was first created in 2010, when Wikipedia didn't have the strict requirements for inline citations in [[WP:BLP|biographies of living people]] it has today. (Actually he is dead but the same principles apply.) It is not correct to say it has no sources, however: they are listed in a separate section of the article. The article has many faults but the individual would probably pass our [[WP:NPOL|political notability]] requirements. So, what is needed is someone motivated to improve the article, not to draftify it as a route to deletion (which it would be by a bot if no-one edited it after six months in draft). [[WP:NOTBACKDOOR|We have a policy]] that says {{tq|older articles—as a rule of thumb those older than 90 days—should not be draftified without prior consensus at AfD}}. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 10:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Josedimaria237|Josedimaria237]] With most articles that don't get accepted, having ''too few'' references is not the problem, but rather having the ''wrong kind'' of references. When a person writing a new article hears there is some problem with references, they tend to assume that giving larger and larger numbers of low-quality references will fix it, and that's never true. The key is learning which kind of references are the good ones, for the kind of topic you have. (For example, good references for an article about some kind of machine are quite different from good references for an article about a person.) When your references are all good ones, you don't need a large number of them. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|TooManyFingers}} Looking at this [[Draft:Ndagi Abdullahi|article]], do you think the references are good? <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 08:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::No. There is nothing to show that he really works at a university (it doesn't even say which university!), and there are no independent sources describing his work. We need to see recognition of his work from people who don't know him, and who are not involved in the same causes as he is. Right now we see only his friends and supporters, and we don't care what his friends and supporters say about him - of course they will say only good things! For example, we want large reports about his life and work (not interviews with him, but to see that outside reporters are saying a lot about him) from people who are not part of the Nupe community, or at least we can see they are not his friends and do not know him or work with him, and that they are trustworthy published sources.
:::If my friends write great things about me, you should not believe everything they say. If reporters from major newspapers in far away cities write great things about me, then you will start to believe it. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 13:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I think you have done what they call "writing the article backwards". You seem to be saying things about him because you know him, and that will never work. If you want to write an article about a person, it would be better for you to write about someone who is not from your country. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 13:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::It is not a bad thing to see what he has written himself, but those are not references. If you hear that I wrote fifty or a hundred books, you will not become more interested in me, because you don't know yet if my books are good. (I could be brilliant, but I could be only a hard worker who didn't write anything useful.)
:::But if you see articles in three major newspapers or magazines from different cities with my name in the title, THEN you might be interested, because you know I can't be friends with all those reporters and editors. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 14:56, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::After reading a bit more carefully, I'm sorry to say it's even worse. He has strong ethnic opinions and he wants to rewrite the history books.
:::Maybe you didn't understand, but people from other ethnic groups will be allowed to rewrite your article and you cannot try to stop them.
:::And Wikipedia rejects ideas for changing the history books. Wikipedia will only say what is already in the history books. If a person wants to change the history books, they have to finish doing that first. THEN Wikipedia can tell the world. Changing the history books is a very hard task, and people who succeed are normally only written about after they die. There can be exceptions of course, but it's unusual. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:56, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Josedimaria237|Josedimaria237]]: to sum up my response, it seems like you know this man, or you support him, maybe you even work for the same organization, AND he seems like he's probably involved in ethnic controversy, AND the references are very poor. This could turn into a disastrously bad article, even the kind of article that makes him look like a bad man, and I honestly recommend that you stop trying. Let a person from a neutral place far away write this article instead. I recommend that if you want to write articles, do not write about any person from Nigeria, but choose a completely different kind of topic. I hope this helps. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 19:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Okay thanks.
::::Actually, I am doing this because of a campaign on Nigerian educators. Personally, I hardly create biographies and I do not try hard to do so. {{ping|TooManyFingers}} This particular article has been deleted earlier but it is named as an article that needs to be created at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Nigeria|WP Nigeria]] and may pass GNG. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 20:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Honestly, the man is somewhat notable but like you said, there are no external sources confirming his notability because I can hardly find any online (a major problem with articles related to underdeveloped countries) and I DON'T KNOW OR SUPPORT HIM, I am only doing so because of the WikiProject nomination. <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 20:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::If you really don't support him, and if you can find real references (showing for sure where he works, and showing that third parties have published stories that are all about him), then it could work. But right now the article unfortunately looks just like something his friends might write, and that can't work. I hope you understand, and I'm sorry that I immediately thought of you being his friend. Most of the time, people involved in ethnic or political controversy get written about by their supporters. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 20:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Was I the one you were referring to in multiple comments at different time? {{Ping|TooManyFingers}} <span style="color:#9400D3;">[[User:Josedimaria237|Jõsé]]<sup>[[User talk:Josedimaria237| ''hola'']]</sup></span> 20:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes it was. How did you find the information you wrote? Surely his enemies do not keep careful lists of his books ...
:::::And how do you know he is a professor without knowing which university? A professor without a university, is not a professor. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 20:36, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::@ [[Special:Contributions/80.83.29.194|80.83.29.194]] ([[User talk:80.83.29.194|talk]]) 11:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== Feedback on My Submitted Draft ==

Hello, I just submitted my 3rd draft for a biography: [[Draft:Moses Kpughur Tule|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Moses_Kpughur_Tule]]. The first two had been rejected because according to the reviewer, I had not provided enough sources to support some claims and use of the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. I've spent some time working on it and I believe I have made the necessary changes. Can you let me know what you think? what am I doing wrong and how do I fix it? [[User:Bluntsupremaci|Bluntsupremaci]] ([[User talk:Bluntsupremaci|talk]]) 12:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

:Welcome to the Teahouse, {{u|Bluntsupremaci}}. I'm afraid to say that the draft still needs a lot of work to be acceptable. Large parts are unsourced. Which source did you get the information "He began his education at N.K.S.T. Primary School in Makurdi, graduating in 1975" from, for instance? [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 12:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::I am related to the subject, he is my father, so alot of the information is from a place of knowing. Although i'm not sure the kind of sources i could cite to support these type claims (about his personal life, educational background etc). How can i improve this? [[User:Bluntsupremaci|Bluntsupremaci]] ([[User talk:Bluntsupremaci|talk]]) 12:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Hi @[[User:Bluntsupremaci|Bluntsupremaci]]: Wikipedia articles essentially summarise what reliable published sources have previously said. Which is a way of saying that if the information comes from your personal relationship with the subject and cannot be corroborated by a published source, then it cannot be included and must be removed.
:::Also, as you clearly have a conflict of interest (COI) regarding this subject, you must disclose it. I will post a message on your talk page with instructions. HTH, -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 12:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

== Deletion of old username ==

Hello,

I would like to delete my old username which is redirecting to my current my username. Can you help me with this request?

The link to the page is {{redacted}}


Thank you and regards [[User:Benzekre|Benzekre]] ([[User talk:Benzekre|talk]]) 12:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

:{{u|Benzekre}}, a Wikipedia account can't be deleted. But you can easily delete the redirect from the old username. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 12:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Maproom|Maproom]] Noted with thanks. I have one further enquiry. I wish to delete the third revision of my user log which shows my old username. Can this be deleted? 
::Link is [[Special:Log/Benzekre]] [[User:Benzekre|Benzekre]] ([[User talk:Benzekre|talk]]) 12:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I believe that would be possible, but only an admin could do it. And I don't see it mattering enough to bother about. I see now that you don't actually have an "old username". That user never existed. What you did, with your Benzekre account, was to create a ''user page'' for an imaginary user. Then {{u|Cabayi}} put a redirect on it. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 12:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Pinging {{u|Cabayi}}, who may understand this mess better than I do. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 12:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Not exactly. At first I created my Wikipedia account using my real name and surname. Later, I decided to change it to Benzekre due to privacy concerns. Cabayi then created my new username but my old username is still available. Since you state that it cannot be deleted, I now wish to have it deleted from my current user log. In this respect, can you please refer me to an admin? [[User:Benzekre|Benzekre]] ([[User talk:Benzekre|talk]]) 12:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::The problem with trying to clear up in the pursuit of privacy, as opposed to preventing its loss in the first place, is that the job is very messy and hardly ever thorough enough. For this reason we normally suggest in various places that a [[WP:CLEANSTART]] is the best method to use. I've deleted a few things for you. -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 12:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thanks a million! I'm still rather new to Wikipedia and have much to learn where Wikipedia operations are concerned. [[User:Benzekre|Benzekre]] ([[User talk:Benzekre|talk]]) 13:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)