View source for Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 July 18

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=== July 18, 2006 ===
<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.
     Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section
     (to properly order entries and avoid edit conflicts).
     Thank you for your cooperation.
  -->


==== [[Template:Anarchism table]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deletion.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 04:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Anarchism table}}
Dead end table created by now banned users [[User:RJII]] and [[User:Hogeye]]. Should be deleted. [[User:f-m-t|FrancisTyers]] [[User_talk:f-m-t|·]] 23:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*''Delete'' per nom. --[[User:AaronS|AaronS]] 23:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Experiment in POV that would never find a practical use. Also assumes a certain rigidity of various philosophies which doesn't exist. [[User:Sarge Baldy|Sarge Baldy]] 23:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. But I'd like to note that contrary to what FrancisTyler said, the table was created by [[User:Infinity0]] as can be seen in the History. He is known for creating POV forks like this. [[User:Hooke|Hooke]] 02:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Thanks for the info Mr. "one-edit" Hooke.  Delete as hijacked by RJII and Hogeye, probably being misguided anyway.  [[User:Blahblahblahblahblahblah|Blahblahblahblahblahblah]] 10:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Misleading and unused.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

==== [[Template:Actors in Tyler Perry Plays & Televison]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''to keep.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 04:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Actors in Tyler Perry Plays & Televison}}
Template riddled with redlinks of non-notable actors. [[User:Andrew c|Andrew c]] 22:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''.  This template was nominated on the same day it was created, so I am not offended by the number of redlinks, especially since the editor who created the template is actively contributing and creating new articles, so presumably the redlink issue will be resolved in a relatively short amount of time.  I admit I've never heard of any of those people, including [[Tyler Perry]], but the article has (uncited) references to a couple of movies created by him being #1 in the box office, so he is presumably notable to some people, so perhaps his theater group is notable as well.  [[User:Neil916|Neil916]] 16:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. This template is great. Wikipedia needs something for most of the actors that play on Tyler Perry, and most of the redlinks are resolved by now. By the way, Tyler Perry is a multi-millionaire who has greated many movies and plays. 
[[User:Candyo32|Candyo32]] 18:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
::(the above comment was added by the author of the template) [[User:Neil916|Neil916]] 20:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' the issues raised by the nominator seem to be resolved.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

====More television series user templates====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete all obsolete templates.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 04:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

These templates two groups have basically the same look, so master templates were created that could handle variables to make it say the same thing those below are saying all in one template. Please note, I am a fan of both of these series and Monty Python below but see the need for reduction.<br/>&mdash;<i>[[User:Lady Aleena|Lady Aleena]]</i> <span style="font-size:7pt;vertical-align:super;">[[User talk:Lady Aleena|talk]]</span>/<span style="font-size:7pt;vertical-align:sub;">[[Special:Contributions/Lady_Aleena|contribs]]</span> 20:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

<b>Addendum:</b> The users of the master templates will not be deprived of categorization nor sub-categorization of their user pages in the appropriate categories or sub-categories. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 19:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
=====Doctor Who=====
{{t1|User Doctor Who Doctor}} replaces...
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 1st Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 2nd Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 3rd Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 4th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 5th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 6th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 7th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 8th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 9th Doctor}}
:{{lt|User Doctor Who 10th Doctor}}
=====Star Trek=====
{{t1|User Star Trek series}} replaces...
:{{lt|User Star Trek TOS}}
:{{lt|User Star Trek TAS}}
:{{lt|User Star Trek TNG}}
:{{lt|User Star Trek DS9}}
:{{lt|User Star Trek VOY}}
:{{lt|User Star Trek ENT}}

=====Discussion=====
*'''Delete''' obsolete, per nom.--[[User:Andrew c|Andrew c]] 22:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I think it'll be better to have one template rather than 6. --[[User:Tuspm|<span style="color:blue;">'''Tu'''</span>]][[User:Tuspm/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">'''s'''</span>]][[User talk:Tuspm|<span style="color:blue;">'''pm'''</span>]]<sup>([[Special:Contributions/Tuspm|C]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Tuspm|@]])</sup> 00:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**<b>Comment</b> This is not only for the Star Trek templates, but the Doctor Who templates as well...I created 2 user templates to replace 16. Good bargin isn't it? - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 06:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete Doctor Who user boxes'''. Obsolete, per nom. (I'll switch over too.) --[[User:Billpg|Billpg]] 09:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**'''Abstain Star Trek user boxes'''. I don't use any of these. --[[User:Billpg|Billpg]] 09:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. The new solutions are much nicer. --[[User:Marcus-e|Marcus-e]] 10:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Nice work. --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 13:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep original''' - There was a mass splitting up of such templates months ago due to the fact that it uses meta-templates. --[[User:Jamdav86|Jamdav86]] 15:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*<s>'''Keep''' Though I appreciate Lady Aleena's idea, I think it would be such a shame to delete templates dedicated to different Star Trek series. Every series is unique and has its audience. Therefore, not every trekkie who likes the Voyager or Enterprise series (such as myself) is a fan of, say, the original series from the 60s. As Star Trek has existed as a phenomenon for almost 40 years, I feel it would be a terrible mistake to lump all the trekkies together under one heading. Besides, every template enables any Wikipedian to locate other contributors who share an interest in the same series.</s> [[User:RedZebra|RedZebra]] 16:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment'''. Does your keep vote also apply to the Doctor Who infoboxes? The text of these boxes say "X has been a fan '''since''' the nth Doctor." (My emphasis). Implication that X is a fan of all Doctors from the nth to the 10th and the hypothetical 11th, 12th and 13th doctors. Thoughts? --[[User:Billpg|Billpg]] 16:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
***'''Answer''' <s>My keep vote applies to templates related to Star Trek series.</s> I abstain from voting in the matter concerning the Doctor Who userboxes. [[User:RedZebra|RedZebra]] 18:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
****After extensive testing on my user page I have come to a conclusion that the premise on which I based my "keep" vote had been flawed. I may be able to command any Intrepid class starship, but early 21 century userboxes are obviously a mistery to me. Whatever the final decision might be, my condition to have the ability to clearly identify all the Wikipedians who are fans of a particular Star Trek series is apparently met either way. I should also like take this opportunity to thank [[User:the_ed17|The ed17]] for his kind offer to save the current userboxes from cyber oblivion on his user pages. [[User:RedZebra|RedZebra]] 19:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
* <s>'''Keep''' per RedZebra, but userfy them via [[WP:GUS]]. Put them here if you want--[[User:the_ed17/GUS userboxes]] </s> <font face="Book Antiqua"><b>[[User:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_</font>]][[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="800000">ed1</font>]][[User:GeorgeMoney/potd|<font color="800000">7</font>]]</font></b> 17:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
** <s>Still '''Keep''' but per RedZebra's slashed comment. And thanks for the thanks. :) Oh, and my vote only applies to the Star Trek boxes, the "Doctor Who" boxes need to be merged.</s> <font face="Book Antiqua"><b>[[User:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_</font>]][[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="800000">ed1</font>]][[User:GeorgeMoney/potd|<font color="800000">7</font>]]</font></b> 21:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
*** '''Delete''' I read further down. <font face="Book Antiqua"><b>[[User:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_</font>]][[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="800000">ed1</font>]][[User:GeorgeMoney/potd|<font color="800000">7</font>]]</font></b> 21:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' The redundant ones, the new userboxes replace them quite nicely. —'''[[User:MiraLuka|<font color="Purple">Mi</font>]][[User talk:MiraLuka|<font color="Blue">ra</font>]]''' 20:51, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', since the new ones seem to do everything the old ones did. --[[User:Brian Olsen|Brian Olsen]] 20:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*<b>Further comment</b> I am opposed to the German solution for userboxes.  They should stay where they are in the templates area. However, I am for the merging of like templates into one so that it does not become over cluttered. I would rather type <nowiki>{{User Star Trek series}}</nowiki> than <nowiki>{{User:Someuser/Someuser's userboxes/User Star Trek series}}</nowiki>. The 2nd is intolerable and way too long and even gives a sense of ownership to the user hosting the box. So, that is why I merged the templates into one, so that the opposition to userboxes can see that even a fan can keep things within a reasonable limit. I am already searching for the next group to merge. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 21:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I agree with Brian Olsen and Mira - no need for multiple different templates when one does the same job. --[[User:Gperrow|Gperrow]] 02:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' I see you got the switches working. =3 This isn't so much a ''deletion'' as it is a ''consolidation'', in my eyes. By the way, is it possible for a template redirect to specify a parameter? If so, that might be a good idea, for these ones we're potentially deleting. Maybe. [[User:Luna Santin|Luna Santin]] 08:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Endorse consolidation''' and I would be happy to have a go at diverting the old templates to the new if this is consensus. HTH HAND —[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 12:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
* <s>'''Keep''' ([[Star Trek]] only). Regarding the ''Star Trek'' templates, it would be better off to have the seperate series because therer are some people who like one particular series, but not care for another. I for like ''[[ST:TNG]]'', but do not care whatsoever for ''[[ST:VOY]]'' and I suspect that there is someone in Wikipedia who is the exact opposite of me on the ''Star Trek'' shows who would like to keep the shows seperate.</s> [[User:Miller17CU94|Chris]] 14:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:*'''Comment.''' I strongly recommend you have a closer look at {{[[Template:User Star Trek series|User Star Trek series]]}}, because it's more complicated than I think you know. Users can easily specify, with a simple parameter, that they're a fan of one series or another. ''<nowiki>{{User Star Trek series|TOS}}</nowiki>'' and ''<nowiki>{{User Star Trek series|TNG}}</nowiki>'', for example, will produce the relevant results. Have a look and see for yourself. Likewise, if they don't specify a particular series, the userbox won't, either. There's examples and a more detailed example at the template page, if you like. [[User:Luna Santin|Luna Santin]] 14:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete all''', belong in userspace per [[WP:TGS]], ''not'' in template space.  --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;cursor:w-resize;">'''Cyde↔Weys'''</span>]] 23:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*<s>Strong Keep. There is much debate among Star Trek fans on which show is the best. It helps to show who we really are inside.</s> [[User: Lord Hawk]] 02:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
**Just so you know, the Star Trek series template that should replace the other 6 will categorize users under the proper show. That is the power of that template, it does more than show you are a fan of a specific series, it puts you in a category of the specific series of which you are a fan. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 18:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
***Perhaps it would be a good idea to clearly state in the introduction that this is a technical change which is not going to deprive the Star Trek community of separate categories related to specific series, particularly in view of the fact that this is exactly the point that has been a cause of much misunderstanding (of which I was the first victim). [[User:RedZebra|RedZebra]] 19:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Migrate to userspace''' not needed in template space.  [[User:Eluchil404|Eluchil404]] 16:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' I tried the new ''Star Trek'' User template and it it much cleaner and easier to use. And you can still put your favorite series (ST:TNG) which I like. My initial comments from July 20th have been struck through as a result. [[User:Miller17CU94|Chris]] 12:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' since now we get more bang for the buck! [[User:Plange|plange]] 04:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' I much prefer the new template.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

==== [[Template:Legaldisclaimer]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''no consensus.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 04:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Legaldisclaimer}}
POV, often limited geographical scope, redundant with [[Wikipedia:General disclaimer]]. — <small>Jul. 18, '06</small><tt> '''[19:18] <<u class=plainlinks>[{{fullurl:user:freakofnurture}} freak]&#124;[{{fullurl:user talk:freakofnurture|action=edit&section=new}} talk]</u>>'''</tt>

*'''Delete''' redundant and confusing, all the liability disclaimer stuff already exists and can be easily found linked from the footer of every page so there's no need for an extra warning template. <small>[[User:Pegasus1138|Pegasus1138]]</small><sup>[[User talk:Pegasus1138|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Pegasus1138|Contribs]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Pegasus1138|Email]]</sup> ---- 19:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per no disclaimer templates.--[[User:Andrew c|Andrew c]] 22:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' legal disclaimers I will support. See how it is used in [[Irwin_Schiff]]. This could save WP liability on legal matters, a very serious issue in the States. On all other disclaimers I have taken the position of delete, in this case I feel the legal protection of making it clear we do not endorse nor offer legal advice is well worth having a disclaimer. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]<sup>[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]</sup> 19:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep and rename to {{tl|legally frivolous}}'''  The template is intended (and used) specifically for articles containing links to sites advocating legal positions that have been declared [[frivolous lawsuit|frivolous]] by the courts.  Such positions are universally rejected by the relevant body of experts in the strongest manner possible, and so labelling them is verifiable and NPOV.  The caveat has at least as broad geographic scope as the links themselves: it acts as a service to non-US readers as well as US readers.  [[User:Robert A West|Robert A.West]] ([[User talk:Robert A West|Talk]]) 23:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
** Please see the new text.  It makes clear the NPOV and Verifiable nature of the claim, and avoids being a disclaimer, while providing a service to readers.  I modify my vote to propose renaming in accordance with the new text. [[User:Robert A West|Robert A.West]] ([[User talk:Robert A West|Talk]]) 16:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''.  As has been argued many times, the existence of some additional per-article disclaimers outside the general disclaimer (and especially [[Wikipedia:Legal_disclaimer]]) may actually increase our liability on those pages which do ''not'' have the disclaimer. Heck, for all I know, it may increase our liability on pages that ''do'' have the disclaimer, since the template's disclaimer is (naturally) far less detailed than the one at [[Wikipedia:Legal_disclaimer]]. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]]  ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 23:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Weak keep''', but rename to something specifically referencing external links, and rewrite a bit to make it clear that this is not so much a disclaimer to protect Wikipedia, but a caution to protect users who may visit such links. [[User:BD2412/deletion debates|<span style="background:gold;">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412/deletion debates|'''T''']] 00:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I don't have a strong opinion on this. To the extent Wikipedia includes this disclaimer as well as other general disclaimers and is therefore redundant, a little ''emphatic redundancy'' might not hurt -- and arguably would well serve Wikipedia readers as well as protect Wikipedia itself (maybe). I haven't done any research on the effect of such a disclaimer or how the legal disclaimer should be worded (or reworded, if at all). (Should we add that task to our list of things to do?) Yours, [[User:Famspear|Famspear]] 02:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as redundancy. Also, doesn't this rather violate the NPOV, to go and put a big official-looking warning across the page? That sort of thing should be mentioned in the article itself, and only if sourceable, not disruptively emphasized. (e.g. "Within the fooian courts, this position has repeatedly been declared frivolous (citations need to go here)", rather than, "Party ''x'' opposes the mainstream view, but THEY'RE ADVANCING A FRIVOLOUS LEGAL POSITION!!! DON'T LISTEN TO THEM!!!".) --[[User:Tjstrf|tjstrf]] 17:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
**We are talking about links to advice so bad that following it can get you fined or sent to jail.  "Frivolous" does not mean simple, "outside the mainstream."  It is being used in the technical legal sense of positions so thoroughly and repeatedly discredited that courts can and do impose substantial penalties on those who waste the courts' time by arguing them.  The imposition of such penalties, and therefore the frivolous nature of the arguments, is a matter of public record, and multiply cited in the cases where this template has been used.  BD2412's suggestion to rename and rephrase sounds good, but I am not sure of the propriety of attempting it while a vote is in progress. [[User:Robert A West|Robert A.West]] ([[User talk:Robert A West|Talk]]) 02:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
*** '''Comment'''.  Renaming while a vote is in progress may break links, and is generally frowned upon (although I've done it....); rephrasing is fine.  [[WP:Be Bold]].  &mdash; [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]] |  [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 19:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Strong delete'''. We have a [[Wikipedia:legal disclaimer|legal disclaimer]] already. Unless these things are written and advised by actual lawyers, don't use them. [[IANAL]] and most probably neither are you. — [[User:Hex|<span style="color:#000">Hex</span>]] [[User_talk:Hex|<span title="Hex's talk page"><span style="color:#000">(❝</span>'''<span style="color:#900">?!</span>'''<span style="color:#000">❞)</span></span>]] 11:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

* '''Renamed'''.  I previously rephrased and left it in for about a week.  Seeing no further comments, I decided to '''be bold''' and rename, since that seems to meet the objections of those who wish to delete while meeting the objectives of those who wish to keep.  I have no objection to deleting the template redirect that resulted.  [[User:Robert A West|Robert A.West]] ([[User talk:Robert A West|Talk]]) 15:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

==== [[Template:Italian general election, 2006-Senate-CdL]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deletion, after subst.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 05:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Italian general election, 2006-Senate-CdL}}
Single-use template containing multiple "fair-use" images. '''Subst and delete'''. [[User:Angr]] 15:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Wouldn't it be better to remove the images, rather than deleting the template? --[[User:Soman|Soman]] 15:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
:If it were being used in multiple pages, like templates are supposed to be, yes. But since it's only being use in one page anyway, there's no reason not to subst it the one time it's used, putting the images into article space, and then delete the template. [[User:Angr]] 14:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as a one-use thing, it should not be a template. [[User:Hbdragon88|Hbdragon88]] 17:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. -- 11:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*Obviously '''subst''' before deleting. [[User:Ardric47|Ardric47]] 23:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Subst and delete''' as it is a one-off. As subst version can easily be copied if it is needed for the next election. --[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

==== [[Template:Bha]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deletion, given extra discusison on the Village Pump.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 05:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Bha}}
Please see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/(biographies)#Out-of-date material]] and [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 July 2#Template:Age]] there is no place for dynamic content like this on wikipedia.  It has a tendency to become false when the person dies or when wikipedia is printed (or put on CD).  [[Template:Age]] was kept because it had other uses outside of the the article space but this has no other use. It is currently not being used. (It was being used by one article that I removed). [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 15:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' [[Template:Age]]'s TfD established that it should not be used in infoboxes. This is effectively the same thing, so I'm voting to delete per consensus there. --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 16:24, 18 July 2006 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])

*'''Keep'''. Regardless of where it is used, it is a convenient extension of the age template, that we decided to keep. It is used with partial substitution, so backlinks are no indication for usage. For a printed version we could create a different result, like we do e.g. for external links and for {{tiw|ed}}.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 23:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
::how do you envision a different result? (especially as you claim it is subst'ed, that would be very hard). [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 23:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
:::With CSS, like class="noprint" in {{tiw|ed}}.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 00:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I added that, it works fine. A CD can either have the same content as the printed version, or we can add another class.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 07:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
::::It is unprofessional.  An encyclopedia is meant to last for a long time, not become outdated every year.  What if the person dies and it is not updated! You can't expect an article always to be updated. see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/(biographies)#Out-of-date material]].  [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 00:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::[[Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_paper_encyclopedia|Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia]]. Even so, I updated the template so that the age is not printed, see above. When a person dies the article should be updated anyway.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 07:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
::::::"''This means that there is no practical limit to the number of topics we can cover other than verifiability and the other points presented on this page.''" - it does not mean that we write thing in an unprofessional way. [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 17:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

:::::::That section needs updating, like was done on the Meta version. Let us not be restricted by old limitations that no longer apply, that would be unprofessional.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 23:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

:I have posted a message at [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village%20pump%20%28policy%29&oldid=66161473#Age_in_biographical_articles Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Age_in_biographical_articles] in order to generate a wider consensus.  If there is no response I would recommend we make this a centralized discussion.  [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 17:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - This template has no legitimate use on Wikipedia. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 17:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Note to closer''' it seems to me that there is a consensus to delete this template at [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village%20pump%20%28policy%29&oldid=66161473#Age_in_biographical_articles Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Age_in_biographical_articles]].  [[User:Jon513|Jon513]] 11:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' Shouldn't the debate be here, not on VPP?--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' May occasionally be useful.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

==== [[Template:Latest preview release/X.Org Server]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deletion.''' [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanG]][[User:RyanGerbil10/Esperanza|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:RyanGerbil10|rbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(The people rejoice!)]]</small> 05:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:{{lt|Latest preview release/X.Org Server}}
This template is useless, as seen on [[X.Org Server]]. [[User:Chealer|Chealer]] 09:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''.  Per nom.  [[User:Neil916|Neil916]] 01:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. — [[User:Hex|<span style="color:#000">Hex</span>]] [[User_talk:Hex|<span title="Hex's talk page"><span style="color:#000">(❝</span>'''<span style="color:#900">?!</span>'''<span style="color:#000">❞)</span></span>]] 11:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Pointless.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>

====Monty Python user templates====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''Userfy per [[WP:GUS]]'''.  I do believe a compromise has been reached.  Please remove these from template space by 2006-08-08.  At that time I will come through and delete whatever redirects or templates are left, as I've found that the German userbox solution doesn't work too well without deadlines.  But one week should be more than long enough to userfy this stuff, fix all of the redirects, and have everything continue to work as it does now.  --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;cursor:w-resize;">'''Cyde↔Weys'''</span>]] 21:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

<b>Note to admin</b> please let us explore the compromise. Thank you. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 04:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

{{t1|User Monty Python}} replaces...
:{{lt|User bright side}} *
:{{lt|User Camelot}} *
:{{lt|User Elderberries}} - different colors with redlink image tag.
:{{lt|User Holy Grail}} *
:{{lt|User Inquisition}} - different colors, no image.
:{{lt|User messiah}} *
:{{lt|User monty python}} - different colors, same image.
:{{lt|User monty python alt}} *
:{{lt|User Nudge Nudge}} *
All of these templates are basically the same, so a [[Template:User Monty Python|master template]] was created that could handle variables to make it say the same thing those above are saying all in one template.<br/>&mdash;<i>[[User:Lady Aleena|Lady Aleena]]</i> <span style="font-size:7pt;vertical-align:super;">[[User talk:Lady Aleena|talk]]</span>/<span style="font-size:7pt;vertical-align:sub;">[[Special:Contributions/Lady_Aleena|contribs]]</span> 06:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
:PS. The messages are not fixed on the master template, so the user can create a whole new message if desired. So the possibilities with the master template are only limited by the user's imagination. I just intergrated the nine current ones and added a few of my own. Currently there are about 11 or 12 examples with the template. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 18:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
:PPS. Will the variables work with the redirects? - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 18:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
:PPPS. There are now 31 different messages with various Monty Python links already made and ready for copy-n-paste to a user page. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 01:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:PPPPS. I added asterisks to the ones with the same layout as the master template, and noted the basic differences of the others. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 18:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

=====Delete or redirect Monty Python user templates=====
*'''Redirect all 9''' to new master template which covers them all or userfy the 9. <small>[[User:Pegasus1138|Pegasus1138]]</small><sup>[[User talk:Pegasus1138|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Pegasus1138|Contribs]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Pegasus1138|Email]]</sup> ---- 06:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Redirect''' as above.  Have a single master template with 9 options that create the various individual templates. [[User:Dark Shikari|Dark Shikari]] 13:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' They are redundant. —'''[[User:MiraLuka|<font color="Purple">Mi</font>]][[User talk:MiraLuka|<font color="Blue">ra</font>]]''' 20:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Endorse consolidation''' and I would be happy to have a go at diverting the old templates to the new if this is consensus. HTH HAND —[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 12:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Why take nine bottles into the shower when you can take one? Anyway, this discussion is far too silly, start the next <s>sketch</s>TfD! — [[User:Hex|<span style="color:#000">Hex</span>]] [[User_talk:Hex|<span title="Hex's talk page"><span style="color:#000">(❝</span>'''<span style="color:#900">?!</span>'''<span style="color:#000">❞)</span></span>]] 11:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I use this template and not sure why the opposition unless I'm missing something? Sounds like we can have it and even be more creative by adding our own quotes. -[[User:Plange|plange]] 14:09, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' or permit move to userspace, particularly the one about the Messiah as it is speedyable under T1 [[User:BigDT|BigDT]] 18:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Reason for the change is that I tried the new User template and I like it. I was able to create one with the '''[[Spam (Monty Python)|Spam sketch]]''' and it work great. My initial vote of keep has been struck through. [[User:Miller17CU94|Chris]] 12:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

=====Userfy Monty Python user templates=====
*'''Userfy''' per [[WP:GUS]]. &mdash;[[User:Andux|Andux]]<sup>[[User_talk:Andux|?]]</sup> 06:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Userfy''', we have a volunteer to take 'em, I see... [[User:BD2412/deletion debates|<span style="background:gold;">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412/deletion debates|'''T''']] 00:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Userfy''' - I'd be happy to host them. --<font color="#002222">'''GW_Simulations'''</font><sub>''[[User:GW Simulations||User Page]]'' | ''[[User talk:GW_Simulations|Talk]] ''|'' [[Special:Contributions/GW_Simulations|Contribs]]'' | ''[[User:GW Simulations/Chess|Chess]]'' | ''[[Special:Emailuser/GW_Simulations|E-mail]]''</sub> 21:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Userfy''' Harmless amusement but should be kept in user space.--[[User:Runcorn|Runcorn]] 21:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

=====Keep Monty Python user templates=====
* <s> '''Keep''' There are many Python fans who like the show only and may not care for the movies.</s> [[User:Miller17CU94|Chris]] 14:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' They are all different enough to have their own pages. <strong style="text-decoration: blink">[[User:Hamish2k|''Hamish'']]</strong> <small>([[User talk:Hamish2k|Talk]])</small> 11:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' I wish everyone would just leave the userboxes alone. -[[User:Neural|Neural]] 22:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''[[User:William Grimes|Brakeman Billy]] 7/18/06 3:45 PM EST
*They may all be similar, but why can't a person have multiple versions of it?  I say do not delete. -[[User:PhattyFatt|PhattyFatt]] 16:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''[[User:Dudtz|Dudtz]] 6/18/06 3:09 PM EST
*'''Keep'''. [[User:Ian13|<span style="color:#067"><u>Ian</u>¹³</span>]][[User talk:Ian13|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">/t</span>]] 15:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' or '''Userfy''' via [[WP:GUS]]. <font face="Book Antiqua"><b>[[User:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_</font>]][[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="800000">ed1</font>]][[User:GeorgeMoney/potd|<font color="800000">7</font>]]</font></b> 19:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*: I'll take them on a user subpage of mine (per [[WP:GUS]]). Say here: [[User:the_ed17/GUS userboxes]]. Even if I'm not on, anyone can just put whatever userbox they want GUS'ed there. You have my permission.  :) <font face="Book Antiqua"><b>[[User:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_</font>]][[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="800000">ed1</font>]][[User:GeorgeMoney/potd|<font color="800000">7</font>]]</font></b> 17:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Widely used, leave the userboxes alone. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jorcoga|Jorcoga]] ([[User talk:Jorcoga#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jorcoga|contribs]]) 03:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)</small>
*'''Keep''' The spanish inquisition one is radically differant from all the others (well perhaps not, but it still looks better than some of the others). Don't delete it, please! --[[User:David Comley|David C]] 20:23, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Not all of the Monty Python templates use the same design.  Also, why wasn't the inline coding used for the TfD notification?  [[User:Douglasr007|Douglasr007]] 23:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*: Douglasr007, most were of the same layout that it seemed to be the favorite, so I used it. And what is the difference between the way I did it and inline? I don't see what the problem is with it either way. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 07:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:I was asking because the inline coding is usually used for userboxes as opposed to the normal AfD notification coding.  That's all.  [[User:Douglasr007|Douglasr007]] 07:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' these should remain distinct in order to prevent the use of meta-templates.  --[[User:24.20.50.7|24.20.50.7]] 05:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*: IP addy, why not have meta-templates? It is taking templates to whole new levels and keeping userboxes from getting out of control. I think that one reason people who want them eliminated dislike them so much is the over abundence of user templates for the same topic. Here is a solution that does not involved moving them out of template space, where they belong. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 07:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' -- so saith the Knights who say Ni [[User:Jim62sch|<font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim</font><font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62</font><font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149;</font>]] 00:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' - don't see what the fuss is about.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 01:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' - Is band width that precious?  Are we all silly English Kin Ig Hits? You fart in our general direction. Please do not dimiss a massive response against deletion as knee jerk.  Redundant duplication may be bad, similar but variant duplication creates variety and enriches the culture.   Delete police, please state reasons in the deletion template, not reference click reference click sort through an index, for objections please see protocol on display filed in a locked lavatory with a sign on the door saying beawre of the leopard.  Whoops, sorry, wrong comic.[[User:Winstonwolfe|Winstonwolfe]] 03:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' - All referenced sketches have their own fame. These templates do fall into the "userbox" fad, so keep'em [[User:Hudd|hudd]] 04:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' all, I really hope these don't personally offend anyone, and I don't see how they could.  [[User:Silensor|Silensor]] 08:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Already in use by alot of people. Leave them alone. '''[[Special:Emailuser/Robomaeyhem|<span style="color:blue;">°˜§?</span>]]'''&nbsp;[[User:Robomaeyhem|<font color="black">Robom</font>]][[User:Robomaeyhem/Esperanza|<font color="green"><b>æ</b></font>]][[User:Robomaeyhem|<font color="black">yhem:</font>]] [[User Talk:Robomaeyhem|<font color="blue">'''T'''</font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Robomaeyhem|<font color="blue">?§˜°</font>]] 01:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', '''userfy''' or '''splunge'''. <small>&mdash; [[User:Riana_dzasta|riana_dzasta]] • [[User_talk:Riana_dzasta|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Riana_dzasta|c]] • [[User:Riana_dzasta/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e</span>]] • 12:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)</small>
**'''Comment''' I started out with {{[[Template:User monty python alt|User monty python alt]]}} and subst'd it. While I don't see how 9 templates are going to affect bandwidth, I do think it's more creative to just add your own quote, etc. <small>&mdash; [[User:Riana_dzasta|riana_dzasta]] • [[User_talk:Riana_dzasta|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Riana_dzasta|c]] • [[User:Riana_dzasta/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e</span>]] • 13:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)</small>
::* '''Comment''' So you have the option of "being creative", whilst other people have the option of using the existing fixed templates.  Best of both worlds.  It's not like there's a significant overhead.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 21:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
:::*... touché. Heh. <small>&mdash; [[User:Riana_dzasta|riana_dzasta]] &bull; [[User_talk:Riana_dzasta|t]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Riana_dzasta|c]] &bull; [[User:Riana_dzasta/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e</span>]] &bull; 06:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)</small>
*'''Very strong keep''' for all Python templates. [[User:Cjmarsicano|Cjmarsicano]] 04:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', it shouldn't really be an issue. -- [[User:Natalya|Nataly]][[User:Natalya/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">a</span>]] 11:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' It's just a bit of fun, let us have our trinkets ;) I might agree to reducing the Nine and gradually introducing the new template to replace them -- [[User:S.Skinner|S.Skinner]] 12:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep and Relax''' there is no good reason to delete or change any of them. This kind of BS is a waste of time on all fronts. Don't like them? Don't use them. [[User:Aborrows|Aborrows]] 14:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
* '''Keep and Relax''' I don'tthinks that there are good reason to delete the teplate about that kind of humour--[[User:Jonathaneo|Jonathaneo]] 12:15, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep, damn it''' As everyone else who has voted on this discussion has pointed out: ''What the HELL?'' ([[User:Ibaranoff24|Ibaranoff24]] 04:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC))
*'''Keep, Keep and more Keep''' Other programs have their own - and these are defined enough to use as your favourite. Userfy possibly,  but if people don't like them there is no obligation to use them! [[User:Batchelor|Batchelor]] 16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep!'''
*'''Keep'''. --[[User:ThylekShran|From Andoria with Love]] 06:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

=====Comments on Monty Python user templates=====
{{tld|babel|Camelot||Monty Python{{!}}Monty Python and the Holy Grail{{!}} is from Camelot, and eats ham and jam and spamalot}}
*'''Comment''': the proposed replacement will work within {{[[Template:Babel|Babel]]}}—which is where many users have placed these templates—provided that the pipe symbols are replaced with {{[[Template:!|!]]}}; see the example here which was produced with <code><nowiki>{{Babel|Camelot||Monty Python{{!}}Monty Python and the Holy Grail{{!}} is from Camelot, and eats ham and jam and spamalot}}</nowiki></code>. HTH HAND —[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 12:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC) 
*<b>Comment</b> Why do you want to keep 9 user templates when 1 will do the same thing...and MORE! I have already seen someone using new variables and customizing the wording of the master template, and there is more that can be done with it. Why keep 9 static user templates? - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 06:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
*Hmmm... seems to be some knee-jerk opposition here.  We do try, whenever possible, to avoid creating redundant and redundant material.  "Duplicates existing template" is a valid reason for deletion, and if done properly the effects will pass unnoticed.  This isn't some sneaky end-around on userbox deletion, it's just a straight-forward tidy of sloppy codesmanship.  I'd say "delete" unless the advantages of redirection are made clear to me.  I also note that while I never close TfD, in an AfD I'd ignore with extreme prejudice the non-arguments presented here.<br/>[[User talk:Aaron Brenneman|<font color="black">brenneman</font>]]<span class="plainlinks"> [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Aaron+Brenneman<font color="black" title="Admin actions"><sup>'''{L}'''</sup></font>]</span> 10:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)  
*<b>Further comment</b> I am vehemently and violently opposed to the German solution for userboxes.  They should stay where they are in the templates area. However, I am for the merging of like templates into one so that it does not become over cluttered. I would rather type <nowiki>{{User Monty Pyton|text here|more text here}}</nowiki> than <nowiki>{{User:Someuser/Someuser's userboxes/User Monty Python}}</nowiki>. The 2nd is intolerable and way too long and even gives a sense of ownership to the user hosting the box. Also, it looks hideous. So, that is why I merged the templates into one, so that the opposition to userboxes can see that even a fan can keep things within a reasonable limit. I am already searching for the next group to merge. (I even said this at the top in the other templates I nominated, but it bears repeating here at the bottom of the page.)- [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 06:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''[[WP:ENC|And now for something completely different]]''' --[[User:Aoratos|Aoratos]] 11:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I love this new template! I just created one of my own using LA's template proposal: {{tl|User Monty Python|Eric the Half a Bee| loves Eric the Half a Bee}}
*'''Comment''' - for those voting to keep, do you know you get to still have Python templates only now if you agree to the above proposal, you have more?? See the custom one I created just above. I couldn't do this before without creating one from scratch in my user space. Seems like people are not really getting what's being proposed or else I'm missing something myself. [[User:Plange|plange]] 04:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:*'''Response''' Yes.  Do ''you'' realise that by voting to keep there's no obligation not to keep the new template?  There is absolutely NO reason why the originals cannot co-exist with it, and by letting them disruption, or the onus on someone to change existing usage, is eradicated.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 18:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Consolodating the userboxes would be a good idea--it would allow all monty python fans to be tagged as Wikipedians who are MP fans. [[User:199.201.168.100|199.201.168.100]] 18:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
*<b>Even more comments</b> by [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 21:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
**Elderberries IS broken and unused.
**Nudge Nudge only has 2 people using it.
**<b>Further reasons for deletion</b>
***Neatness - When I combine files on my computer, I delete the singular ones to make it easier to remember the combined file.
***GUSed (userfied) templates are incompatable with the Babelbox.
***Other shows are getting cut back, see the above Doctor Who and Star Trek user templates. Doctor Who not only had the 10 above deleted, but 1 other later on since it was adding to the master template, bringing Doctor Who to a staggering 11 user templates deleted.
**I am currently working on the next three groups of user templates to be merged with the singles deleted.
**The fewer user templates there are, the less those against them (and who want the entire lot deleted) can gripe. I am trying to avert a user template disaster with mergers.
**The compromise section was not meant to be for discussion.
**I did not mean for this to become a pitched battle, I swear I didn't know how determined some Pythonites can be. This was totally unexpected. I expected this from the Whovians and the Trekkies, but the Doctor Who WikiProject went so far as to include the merged template as an "official" Doctor Who user template before the others were even deleted. Winstonwolfe pointed out that this discussion has taken up more space than would have been saved, and that was NOT my intention.
**We an use some sandbox, but there it is not a sandbox one. I think, the using of template for representation of what the user like and what they don't like is a part of the wiki. The Pyython is an absolutly wonderful things and piece of humor, it can contribute to show to other people that we can laught of the most tiny thing. Template are not Babel, so, it i not an argument because we speak of two different things, one for tongue, the other for passion, and interesting point of view.--[[User:Jonathaneo|Jonathaneo]] 09:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC) --[[User:Jonathaneo|Jonathaneo]] 09:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

=====Compromise on Monty Python user templates=====
Out of the nine user templates, six have the same color scheme and image which are marked with asterisks in the list above. Would those who wish to keep be willing to part with those six if the three with a different color scheme or image are kept, though User elderberries has a redlinked image and is virtually unused. If you are willing to accept this compromise, please just sign below and strike your comment under keep.

As an aside, I expected a harsher reaction from the Whovians and Trekkies above, I didn't realize that Pythonites were so dedicated. - [[User:Lady Aleena|LA]] @ 20:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

:*'''Comment''' I'm sorry, but I simply don't see why it is so damned important that ''any'' of them go.  OK, so there's a new flexible template that allows new users to use any quote they choose.  Fine and dandy.  But why is it so important for some people to remove all (or as in this instance only some) of the existing ones which are already in wide use?  I really, really, don't understand the obsession.  There's an old adage: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  Clearly for the people currently using the existing templates, ''it ain<nowiki>'</nowiki>t broke'', so why create all the extra work of forcing them to change?  Would someone please explain to me in simple, logical terms why it is so over-archingly important that the old ones be removed?

:It's not about dedication.  It's about simple management logic.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 21:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
::I think the motivating factor is that if we don't switch, we'll be forced to use the German solution eventually...-[[User:Plange|plange]] 21:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Why not use the new one? The new template works better, someone went to all the trouble of creating it, and customizable userboxes are just plain cool imo. Also, you misunderstand the idiom "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". That is an argument about priorities, not against improvement. It's stating that you have better things to fix than the things that aren't broken. In other words, go fix something broken. If someone is going to go around fixing non-broken objects anyway though, and they work better than before, then opposing the change simply because the old version "wasn't broken" isn't practical, it's silly and anti-progressive. --[[User:Tjstrf|tjstrf]] 22:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

:I do ''not'' misunderstand "if it ain't broke...".  I'm afraid it's you who appears to lack comprehension.  The principle is very simple - by all means design a better tap washer, and persuade the world to use it in all their new taps.  That doesn't mean you have to go around the world dismantling every existing tap and replacing a washer which still works perfectly well.  Hence - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and not "if it's new, don't use it".  In this context, by all means let people use the new template if they desire.  The new template may be "better" in some eyes.  I'm not saying it's not.  I'm just saying that that is no argument for forcing people who are perfectly happy with what they already have to change just because ''you'' think it's cooler.  It's just creating unecessary work.

:I despair.  I joined WP about 6 weeks ago, thinking yeah - this is a good use of my time.  6 weeks on and I'm coming around to the view of people who point their finger and laugh.  It's nothing but one huge vanity project.  It's full of people touting their own agenda (qv the current edit wars over whether Freddie Mercury, as a Parsee, was or wasn't Persian, and was or wasn't therefore Iranian), and petty bureaucrats who appear to drive change not because it achieves anything useful, but because they want to implement ''something''.  I'm not naming names.  I'm not pointing fingers.  It's a wider observation than just this one issue.

:I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there is absolutely no practical reason why the old and new templates cannot co-exist.  The difference is a few hundred bytes of storage (and, I might add, a minute ''increase'' in processing overhead each time an instance of the more complex new template is rendered).  The only reasons to remove the old and force a migration are bureaucratic.  There is no support cost or overhead.  There is no continued use cost or overhead.  The only cost (man hours to change existing usage instances) is in implementing a forced migration.  It flies contrary to all sensible engineering or data management.  From now on, I'm just going to sit back and watch.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 23:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

:One final note - I just looked at [[WP:GUS]], and guess what the guidelines actually explicitly say '''"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"'''.  It's there in black and white.  If it's not controversial don't tinker with stuff unless there's a reason to.  Now, unless I'm missing something, Monty Python may be a lot of things but it's not controversial and subject to edit wars.  [[User:Cain Mosni|Cain Mosni]] 23:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::If you don't like the bureacracy, then there's a simple solution: Just edit, don't involve yourself in all the meta stuff. Most of us just tolerate it as a necessary part of collaboration, while some of us actually enjoy it in our own twisted way. And 6+ redundant userboxes is indeed a form of "broken", and the replacement box is a compelling argument to counter those who vote to delete these as a type of userbox spam. If you really don't like the new box, or are so concerned about the load time, then just subst: yours. Simple enough. --[[User:Tjstrf|tjstrf]] 23:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
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Maybe I missed something, but according to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Userboxes]]:

"'''Splitting templates with multiple options into separate templates'''
*Templates with multiple options should be split into separate templates where possible.

'''Merge duplicates of same template'''
*Duplicates need to be merged, choose the most suitable, turning the one for removal into a redirect, and following the guide below from step 2."

That alone should pretty much wipe out the new multiple-use MP userbox.

On the other hand, if we don't follow this... I've looked at the new template, and it looks like, one could fairly simply use the same template for just about any topic/theme.

So on one hand, it goes against current guidelines.  And on the other hand, it could be used to replace many existing userboxes (adding a programmable reference for box colour would further do this.)

- [[User:Jc37|Jc37]] 09:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

:::(A note on a post from 4 days ago) As an IT manager I fail to see any "management issue" here -- of course, this assumes that the database is properly set up, if it is not, fix that issue before addressing non-issues.  As a user, I've yet to see any rational reason for the removal of user boxes -- I've seen a lot of piffle, and piss-poor excuses, but nothing that has the ring of validity.
:::Additionally, the "German solution" (more like an Endlösung) is a solution only Germans could come up with.  (BTW my ancestory is German, so make no assumptions that this statement violates NPA). [[User:Jim62sch|<font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim</font><font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62</font><font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149;</font>]] 15:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

'''Comment''' 
1. This discussion must have used more time effort and band width than would be saved.  :-) 
2. I think the new template is very good, but I think deleting the old ones will just bug good wikipedia citizens.  How about an evolutionary approach - introduce the new template, and see if people adopt it in preference to the others?  
3. Thanks for pointing out the Whovians, I will go add their user box to my page :-) 
4. I agree with the comments above, and can get frustrated with irresponsible bot weilding Spiny Normans who hide from accountability and constructive criticism behind miserable excuses about no precedents and accusations of wikilawyering.  However that is not the case here.  The way Lady Aleena has handled this matter with thorough consultation rather than unilateral action and attempts to find a compromise rather than dictating a solution is exemplary and, while respectfully disagreeing with her original proposal, I thank her for the decent manner in which she has pursued it.  She deserves a shubbery.[[User:Winstonwolfe|Winstonwolfe]] 07:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>