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== Dark mode for logged-in users on desktop coming this week! ==

[[File:Accessibility_for_reading_mockup_with_dark_mode_on.png|thumb]]
Hey, this is a continuation of the topic "[[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 213#Dark mode for logged-out users coming soon!|Dark mode for logged-out users coming soon]]", specifically about desktop (the [[Wikipedia:Vector 2022|Vector 2022]] skin).

In that previous message, we announced that dark mode on desktop would be rolled out in one step, for both logged-in and logged-out users, in the week of July 15 (that is, next week). However, we'd be more comfortable to enable it for logged-in users first. Articles here on English Wikipedia look very good in dark mode, and again, thanks to everyone who is contributing to it!

We are going to '''enable dark mode on desktop just for logged-in users this week'''. If everything goes well (it has been going very well so far!) we will enable it on desktop for logged-out users next week as we previously announced. It's gonna be exciting :D Thanks! [[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|talk]]) 01:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

:{{re|SGrabarczuk (WMF)}} What do you mean by "We are going to"? I thought it was enabled for logged-in users already? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 06:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::It was only Logged in users with the beta option enabled before. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 07:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Oh. Does it mean "Accessibility for Reading" will no longer be a beta feature, or just the dark mode? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 07:38, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, exactly. [[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|talk]]) 11:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{re|SGrabarczuk (WMF)}} Yes, what? That was not a [[polar question]]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 11:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::Oh, sorry, I wanted to give a quick answer and misread :D Dark mode will no longer be a beta feature. <del>Font size control will continue to be a beta feature.</del> [[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|talk]]) 11:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::Correction: The font size control is already available by default. The beta feature will disappear from the list because after this rollout, all options will be available for everyone. [[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|talk]]) 18:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::What happens to people (like me) who don't use Vector? Will dark mode still be available in MonoBook? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nigel Ish|Nigel Ish]] ([[User talk:Nigel Ish#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nigel Ish|contribs]]) 19:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</small>
::::::::Dark mode is supported only in Minerva and Vector 2022. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:30, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::: So the existing dark mode (that does work in MonoBook) will stop working. Wonderful.[[User:Nigel Ish|Nigel Ish]] ([[User talk:Nigel Ish|talk]]) 21:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 
::::::::::If by "existing dark mode that does work in Monobook" you mean the gadget? No, that will continue to function. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:45, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Eww, this one caught me by surprise... The contrast doesn't seem quite right at the moment. I don't think "dark mode" should be black, it should be off black for the best ease on the eyes. Hopefully the WMF will get these things right in due course. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 21:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:It's flicking black/white off-and-on for me. Page loads in dark & then seconds later turns white. The next page loads in white & seconds later flicks to black. Plus the diffs aren't visible in black. Instant migraine for me. Safari 16.6.  [[User:Victoriaearle|Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victoriaearle|tk]]) 21:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::Same.  On my end, it was enabled by default and I had to go into preferences to enable the toggle just to turn it off in the interface.  Now it flickers every time the page loads. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 22:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::I turned off the toggle in preferences, emptied my cached, restarted the machine. Still happening. Now the white pages render with the dark colors before turning completely black after about 5 seconds. I took screen shots. It seems to take 3 to 5 seconds to flick from white to black & then back again. [[User:Victoriaearle|Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victoriaearle|tk]]) 22:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Yeah, one wonders if this is causing seizures. "For 3% of people with epilepsy, exposure to flashing lights at certain intensities or to certain visual patterns can trigger seizures." [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 22:50, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::This is true which is exactly why I'm unable to upload the screenshots. This is very very bad. [[User:Victoriaearle|Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victoriaearle|tk]]) 22:53, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Makes me wonder why nobody else is reporting it or is the least bit concerned.  I've got a brand new computer as well. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 22:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I switched to Vector legacy in preferences as a workaround. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 23:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Hey there! I've added this to our [[mediawikiwiki:Reading/Web/Accessibility_for_reading/Frequently_asked_questions#I_am_experiencing_a_flash_of_styles_on_every_page_-_how_do_I_disable_the_gadget?|FAQ]]. If you are seeing a flick from white to black, you have enabled the gadget AND have attempted to try out the new feature (possibly via preferences when it was in beta or via the new preference that now appears in the preferences page).
:::The number of people using the gadget is quite low compared to the number of viewers so I am not concerned that this is impacting a large amount of people. [[User:Jon (WMF)|Jon (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jon (WMF)|talk]]) 23:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Hi {{u|Jon (WMF)}}, please re-read my message. I disabled the gadget, doublechecked that it's gone, emptied my cache, restarted my machine. It's still happening. I will have to log out to override this. If you would like to see screen shots taken with ''the gadget disabled'' I'm happy to send them on, but you'll have to contact me. [[User:Victoriaearle|Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victoriaearle|tk]]) 23:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::::That's what I initially thought, but the gadgets were all unchecked when it went live.  Now, I get dark mode by default ''unless'' I check the preferences. I'm in Vector legacy to avoid all of it, because I can't fix it. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 23:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Note, the dark-mode-toggle-pagestyles gadget is hidden on user preferences so it is possible you still have that enabled (it doesn't show up in preferences)
:::::A few questions which will help us get to the bottom of this:
:::::* In legacy Vector are you seeing the dark mode gadget toggle in the top right? 
:::::* If you enable Vector 2022, do you see the message "You're using a dark mode gadget". If yes, what happens when you click it and the page reloads?
:::::[[User:Jon (WMF)|Jon (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jon (WMF)|talk]]) 23:17, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{tq|In legacy Vector are you seeing the dark mode gadget toggle in the top right?}}
::::::No.
:::::::{{tq|If you enable Vector 2022, do you see the message "You're using a dark mode gadget".}}
::::::No, unless I'm missing it. How do I fix dark-mode-toggle-pagestyles, if that is the problem? [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 23:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

::::::::Okay, I found it. There are two toggles for dark mode in preferences >> gadgets. One under "appearance" and then ''another one'' all the way under "utility". Both have to be turned off. Mine was still turned on under utility. The flickering only stops when they are both turned off. To find the control for dark/light mode now, one has to go to preferences >> appearance >> color. Color?? Seriously? In the meantime, {{u|Jon (WMF)}}, I sent an email with screenshots, but it's now irrelevant. [[User:Victoriaearle|Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victoriaearle|tk]]) 23:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, that's in "gadgets", and doesn't work for me.  I have both off, and I'm still in dark mode.  If I switch them on, and then turn off dark mode, I get the flickering.  If I switch them off, I'm in permanent dark mode. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 00:12, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Oh, Victoria is right, that worked.  I had to change appearance > color to "light".  Problem solved. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 00:20, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:Hmm really not a fan of this new default setting. Has this even been tested by a broad group of people including casual users (not just people heavily involved in Wikipedia?
:The "dark mode" is ironically way too bright because this is a text-heavy site. So, what you get now is a mass of white text, not a dark page. It almost seems *more* white. The drastic differences between the colors make it difficult to skim. (I don't mind it so much when I'm reading closely, but skimming is important, too.)
:Also - this is a little pet peeve, but important for research. The color of already-clicked links doesn't change in info boxes (sorry I don't know the exact term but in a bio page, it would be the box on the top right with basic info like DOB, city, parents, etc.). This isn't a browser issue because it works in  Vector legacy. [[User:Jim0101|Jim0101]] ([[User talk:Jim0101|talk]]) 04:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jim0101|Jim0101]] "new default setting" The default will remain light mode, the only thing changing is that you get an OPTION to set dark mode...  —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:20, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:::K well it switched to dark mode without me choosing that option. So that's naturally why I assumed it was the default setting when it did in fact default to that for me. [[User:Jim0101|Jim0101]] ([[User talk:Jim0101|talk]]) 12:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Hey @[[User:Jim0101|Jim0101]] - apologies for this! We had switched some users whose devices were requesting dark mode automatically to follow the device preference (this is what the "automatic" toggle in the menu does).  After hearing the reports here, we've not switched this back.  Currently, the only way to see dark mode would be to explicitly opt-in. [[User:OVasileva (WMF)|OVasileva (WMF)]] ([[User talk:OVasileva (WMF)|talk]]) 15:18, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
: I am using a script which highlights different type of pages in different colors (sorry do not remember the name), this gives me as default blue on black, and this is not readable. I generally like the dark background, but here I had to switch back (using the appearance tab in the preferences). I can not switch off the script because I work a lot with category deletion, and categories need to be tagged.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 05:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:Anomie/linkclassifier]]? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 06:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, I think so. [[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 06:31, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, re contrast and readability I concur. I used it for a bit last night and my eyes were hurting by the end with some of the text impossible to read. Per Ymblanter above, I think this needs to go out to a proper group of test readers and full feedback taken on board before we roll it out as a default. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 08:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::::: The linkclassifier script's colors are easy to customize if you know CSS. The default [[User:Anomie/linkclassifier.css]] isn't even required to be used. If someone wants to suggest a full set of colors for dark mode, that could be useful to incorporate in the default. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 11:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:Has anyone raised an issue with new notifications background going from white to dark background upon read? The text is unreadable. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 06:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for your report @[[User:Robertsky|Robertsky]]! I'm wondering if you could give a bit more detail on where you're seeing this?  Are you talking about notifications on the Special:Notifications page? Or within the menu in the top right?  If possible, a screenshot would be really helpful as well so we can identify where the issues is.  Thanks again. [[User:OVasileva (WMF)|OVasileva (WMF)]] ([[User talk:OVasileva (WMF)|talk]]) 11:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I've noticed that If you open "Notices" and then have new messages "from other wikis", that block in your notices shows a baby blue highlight color for 2 to 3 seconds or something, which is not yet dark mode compatible. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:OVasileva (WMF)|OVasileva (WMF)]] as what @[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] described. Apologies for the delay, but here's a screen recording [[File:Screen recording of notifications in dark mode 20240712.webm|thumb|Screen recording of notifications in dark mode 20240712]] [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 15:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
:::The same also happens to the Thanks notifications. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 07:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
:::going to https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3ADiff&veaction=editsource, the codes are rendered with white background and a light coloured text. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 09:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you for the details @[[User:Robertsky|Robertsky]] and @[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]]!  We're now tracking this in [[Phab:T370042|in this ticket]]. [[User:OVasileva (WMF)|OVasileva (WMF)]] ([[User talk:OVasileva (WMF)|talk]]) 08:32, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

=== Does dark mode give you the Willys 77 ===

Thanks for giving Wikipedia a dark mode option! The [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:MobileOptions&returnto=Willys+77 settings page says] ''Experimental version, high likelihood of experiencing issues''--am i being helpful if i say i think i've found one?

<sup>Do we have (or should we have) a central thread where [[#Dark mode for logged-in users on desktop coming this week!|all]] of [[#MW Dark Mode bug when Software notices shown on page|the]] discussions about the launch of dark mode should be in one place?</sup>

i've visited maybe a half dozen pages where dark mode seems to work, but the ''[[Willys 77]]'' page still won't turn to the dark side, even after i:
*reload the page,
*close and reopen the tab,
*open a new tab and type the URL into the address bar,
*create a new link to that page (as in this post) and use that to open the page,
*change [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:MobileOptions&returnto=Willys+77 settings] back and forth a few times,
*or retry the methods listed here, but in a different order.

Additionally, [[Wikipedia:Help desk]] is ''mostly'' dark. i'm not sure if it's the same issue mentioned [[#MW Dark Mode bug when Software notices shown on page|here]], but this part:
<sup>Welcome...<br>(Am I in the right place?)...<br>For other types of questions...<br>Do not provide your email...<br>New editors may prefer the Teahouse...<br>[Ask a question]<br>show/hide Wikipedia help pages</sup>
this part stays white.

Wishing everyone safe, happy, productive editing.

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 22:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

:''[[Willys 77]]'' turned black. --[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 23:13, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::Hello, thank you for reaching out here! I'm glad to see that the article turned black. It always takes a few days for new changes to be propagated across all pages because of caching. When we started running banners inviting logged-out users to switch to dark mode, the cache of just a few percent of the articles wasn't refreshed.
::When it comes to the Help desk, I'm sure English Wikipedians will soon fix it. It is challenging, though. There are so many pages formatted with the assumption that the only mode is light, and there's a lot of special formatting on non-article pages. But reports like yours help technical editors prioritize their work.
::Thanks again, for pointing at these issues, for your patience (so many steps to solve the problem of the persisting light mode), and kind words! [[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|talk]]) 00:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I have fixed all of the dark mode Linter issues at [[Wikipedia:Help desk]] except for the ones caused by {{tl|Collapse top}}, which is fully protected. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:28, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

=== New dark mode is less readable ===

The default foreground color for text is way too bright/white and more than a few page elements on certain pages are as bright as light mode. Overall, it does not seem like an improvement on the old beta dark mode. I'd simply disable it and stick with the old beta dark mode for now, but if I do that, there's a white flash at the start of every page load and page refresh, which defeats the purpose of using a dark mode.

Here's [https://imgur.com/a/UgamzHH several screenshots] to show before vs. after.

Also, is there documentation somewhere describing the changes to the CSS? <code>.client-dark-mode</code> stopped working. Thanks. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 07:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

:Not having used the beta, the new version looks superior. A [[wp:village shrine]] should be erected to mark the occasion of implementation.
:Though, the contrast issue may be a thing. Fiddling around with my monitor-settings, it feels like the default could be reduced quite significantly without other issues. [[User:JackTheSecond|JackTheSecond]] ([[User talk:JackTheSecond|talk]]) 09:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::It's not just about what looks good, it's about reducing eyestrain and improving legibility. The new white text is simply '''far too bright''' at #EAECF0 rather than the previous text color in the beta, which was #DFDEDD. If you refer to [[Material Design]]'s [https://m2.material.io/design/color/dark-theme.html recommendations for dark theme], you'll see they recommend 87% opacity on #FFFFFF for "high emphasis" text (their term for the main text), which equates to #DEDEDE, essentially the same as the beta. The new experimental dark mode seems to overlook decades of user design research. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 21:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:Dark mode turned on for me yesterday evening, and I found it very difficult to read, especially the watchlist page, where I had great difficulty seeing which changed pages I had already looked at. I managed to turn dark mode off, except that each page loads in dark mode, and I have to wait several seconds until it switches to light mode. At least dark mode is not popping up this morning. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 12:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:WRT to documentation, See [[mediawikiwiki:Recommendations_for_night_mode_compatibility_on_Wikimedia_wikis]].  —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

===dark text on dark background===
====templates that automatically change text colors from default settings?====
<sup><span style="color: black ">i tried to make this clear, then i accidentally erased part of it and had to rewrite it. i hope it's (still) clear (again).</span></sup>

In dark mode, some sections of the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]] have dark text that's nearly invisible on the dark background. i can just barely read it when i zoom in, but i ''can'' read it, so it's not ''exactly'' the same color... but it's ''much'' too easy not to see it at all if you don't know to look for it. It's darker than <span style="color: gray ">''gray''</span> or <span style="color: darkgrey ">''dark grey''</span> text, but the blackground is slightly darker (and apparently <span style="color: black ">''black''</span> black text is even darker than that). Some of the red and green text can be hard to read on the dark background, too; they might actually use <span style="color: darkred ">dark red</span> and <span style="color: darkgreen ">dark green</span> instead of <span style="color: red ">red</span> and <span style="color: green ">green</span>. These non-default colors seem to be products of templates; i am not very "fluent" in the use of templates. (For instance, in the examples transcribed below, are "Correct" and "Incorrect" two different templates, one green and one red? Are "Correct", "Accepted", "Acceptable", "Better", and "Clear" all versions of the same green template?)

Examples:
*from [[MOS:;]]
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Correct:}}
| {{xt|Oranges are an...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Incorrect:}}
| {{!xt|Oranges are a...}}
|}
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| {{em|Accepted}}: || {{xt|"Life is short, art is long."}} (two brief clauses in an [[aphorism]]; see ''[[Ars longa, vita brevis]]'')
|-
| {{em|Accepted}}: || {{xt|"I have studied it, you have not."}} (reporting brisk conversation, such as this reply of [[Isaac Newton|Newton]]'s)
|}
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Unwieldy}}:
| {{!xt|Oranges are an...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Better}}:
| {{xt|Oranges are a...}}
|}
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Confusing}}:
| {{!xt|Sales offices are located...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Clear}}:
| {{xt|Sales offices are...}}
|}
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| || {{xt|It was obvious...}}
|-
| {{em|Meaning}}: || {{xt|It was obvious...}}
|}
*from [[MOS:HYPHEN]]
:({{xt|sub-era}}, not {{!xt|subera}})
<div class="block-indent" style="padding-left: 5em; padding-right: 0; overflow: hidden;"><!--The underlying code adapted from {{block indent}} which doesn't work around wikitables.-->
{| style="background:transparent"
|-
| {{em|Incorrect:}} || {{!xt|9-mm gap}}
|-
| {{em|Correct:}} || {{xt|9&nbsp;mm gap}} (markup: <code>9&amp;nbsp;mm gap</code>)
|-
| {{em|Incorrect:}}&nbsp; &nbsp; || {{!xt|9&nbsp;millimetre gap}}
|-
| {{em|Correct:}} || {{xt|9-millimetre gap}}
|-
| {{em|Correct:}} || {{xt|12-hour shift}}
|-
| {{em|Correct:}} || {{xt|12&nbsp;h shift}} (markup: <code>12&amp;nbsp;h shift</code>)
|}
</div>
*from [[MOS:HASH]]
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Incorrect:}}
| {{!xt|Her album reached #1 in...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Correct:}}
| {{xt|Her album reached number one...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Correct:}}
| {{xt|Her album reached {{Abbr|No.|Number}} 1 in...}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Correct:}}
| {{xt|Her albums ''Foo'' and ''Bar'' reached {{abbr|Nos.|Numbers}} 1 and 3.}}
|-
| style="padding-right:1em" | {{em|Correct:}}
| {{xt|Her albums ''Foo'' and ''Bar'' reached numbers one and three...}}
|}
:An exception is issue numbers of comic books, which unlike for other periodicals are conventionally given in general text in the form {{xt|#1}}, unless a volume is also given, in which case write {{xt|volume two, number seven}} or {{xt|{{Abbr|Vol.|Volume}} 2, {{Abbr|No.|Number}} 7}}. Another exception are periodical publications carrying both, issue ''and'' number designations (typically one being a year-relative and the other an absolute value); they should be given in the form {{xt|2 #143}} in citations, or be spelt out as {{xt|{{Abbr|Iss.|Issue}} 2, {{Abbr|No.|Number}} 143}} in text. When using the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations|abbreviations]], write {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Vol.|Volume}}</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Iss.|Issue}}</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|No.|Number}}</nowiki></code>}}, or {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Nos.|Numbers}}</nowiki></code>}}, at first occurrence.
*from [[MOS:CONSECUTIVE]]
{| role="presentation" style="margin:0.2em 0 0.5em 1.6em; background:transparent"
|-
| {{em|Incorrect:}} || {{!xt|Slovak returned to the Red Hot Chili Peppers in 1985 after growing tired of What Is This?.}}
|-
| {{em|Acceptable}}: || {{xt|Slovak returned to the Red Hot Chili Peppers in 1985 after growing tired of What Is This?}}
|-
| {{em|Better}}: || {{xt|Slovak, having grown tired of What Is This?, returned to the Red Hot Chili Peppers in 1985.}}
|-
| {{em|Incorrect:}} || {{!xt|He made several films with Sammy Davis Jr..}}
|-
| {{em|Correct:}} || {{xt|He made several films with Sammy Davis Jr.}}
|}
 ''aside: Would ''He and Sammy Davis Jr. made several films together.'' be <span style="color: LIME ">better</span>?''
*Honorable mention for dark mode (light text on dark background) including ''phrases'' of dark text on light background, as seen in [[MOS:AFFIXDASH]] (''EDIT: i just realized this particular issue must be with the ‹template Cat is being considered for merging› bit, not the Manual of Style itself''):
::The form of category names follows the corresponding main articles, e.g., {{cat|Trans–New Guinea languages}}.
::However, the principle is not extended when compounding other words in category names, e.g., {{cat |Tennis-related lists}} and {{cat |Table tennis-related lists}} both use hyphens.

Honorable mention also for viewing a ''Difference between revisions'', where the revised portion of the article appears in light text on a dark background, but the editor's name/IP address appear with select stats as dark text (well, blue links, mostly) on a light background. For example, [[special:diff/1233912919|the diff for the most recent edit to this page]] shows mostly in dark mode, but shows
:Lowercase sigmabot III
:BOTS, TEMPLATE EDITORS
:2,189,332
:EDITS
on a light background... and i didn't realize until i did that copy-paste that EDITS is there in text ''almost'' as light as the background.

Thanks to the people working on this.

 aside: For my own amusement and future reference, i have been using my talk page ([[User_talk:173.67.42.107|Learn more about this page]]) to test what names of <span style="color: hotpink ">colors</span> <span style="color: darkorange ">work</span> <span style="color: gold ">with</span> <span style="color: chartreuse ">this</span> <span style="color: lightseagreen ">Wikipedia</span> <span style="color: blueviolet ">code</span> <span style="color: lightgrey ">(and</span> <span style="color: darkgray ">which</span> <span style="color: light gray ">do</span> <span style="color: dark grey ">not)</span>. Maybe that could help someone see which colors work best for light mode, dark mode, or both?

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 19:26, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:I have fixed all of the Linter dark mode issues at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]], so it may display better now. However, the green text generated by {{tl|xt}} appears to be #006400, which, when placed on the #202122 "black" background of dark mode, results in a contrast ratio of 2.16:1, a [https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/?fcolor=006400&bcolor=202122 failing score]. The red text generated by {{tl|!xt}} appears to be #8B0000, which, when placed on the same black background, results in a contrast ratio of [https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/?fcolor=006400&bcolor=202122 1.61:1], another failing score. I'm not sure what to do about that. Either someone needs to find a green that works with both, or a style sheet could be created to deliver different greens and reds in light and dark mode, or something else. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks, Jonesey.
::If i'm going to keep reporting these issues, maybe i should learn how to fix them myself, but i don't even know what questions to ask or if i'd understand the answers. For example, what's Linter?
::--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 09:19, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
:::[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]], see [[Wikipedia:Linter]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1720863505912:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 09:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::...Huh. From [[MOS:HASH]] again:
::::they should be given in the form {{xt|2 #143}} in citations, or be spelt out as {{xt|{{Abbr|Iss.|Issue}} 2, {{Abbr|No.|Number}} 143}} in text. When using the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations|abbreviations]], write {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Vol.|Volume}}</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Iss.|Issue}}</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|No.|Number}}</nowiki></code>}}, or {{xt|<code><nowiki>{{abbr|Nos.|Numbers}}</nowiki></code>}}, at first occurrence.
::"2 #143" and "Iss. 2, No. 143" seem to be dark green in both light mode and dark mode, but <nowiki>"{{abbr|Vol.|Volume}}", "{{abbr|Iss.|Issue}}", "{{abbr|No.|Number}}", and "{{abbr|Nos.|Numbers}}"</nowiki> are dark green in dark mode and black in light mode? --[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 09:37, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

===dark text on light background in dark mode===
Seems many cells in episode tables ([[Template:Episode_table]]) have this problem, as seen on these pages:
*[[Whose_Line_Is_It_Anyway%3F_(American_TV_series)_season_13#Episodes]]
*[[Whose_Line_Is_It_Anyway%3F_(American_TV_series)_season_16#Episodes]]
*[[Nashville_season_5#Episodes]]
*[[The_Orville_season_2#Episodes]]
i'm still figuring out how Wikipedia tables work and [[Web colors#Hex triplet]]s go right over my head, but i think [[Template:Episode_table]] lets you override some default colors, which still leaves the problem of picking colors that suit both light mode and dark mode, or altering the template so it switches colors when the user toggles between light mode and dark mode.
--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 09:19, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
:I do not see any errors on those pages in dark mode. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Jonesey95}} I brought up this issue at {{tl|Episode list}} with [[Template_talk:Episode_list#Dark_mode_adjustments|this discussion]]. Have not gotten any response there so maybe you can chime in. The IP is correct that the cell backgrounds are not adjusting properly in dark mode. Taking [[Nashville season 5]] as an example, the "No. overall" column is rendering as I would expect in dark mode, while all the others are not. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 14:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

===Timeline for dark mode rollout===
Re: {{tq2|[...] In that previous message, we announced that dark mode on desktop would be rolled out in one step, for both logged-in and logged-out users, in the week of July 15 (that is, next week). However, we'd be more comfortable to enable it for logged-in users first. [...] {{pb}}
We are going to '''enable dark mode on desktop just for logged-in users this week'''. If everything goes well (it has been going very well so far!) we will enable it on desktop for logged-out users next week as we previously announced.}}
Is "next week" on [[WP:THURSDAY]]? Could you please give dates for these? There are at least three relevant places on mediawiki.org:
* [[mw:Reading/Web/Accessibility for reading#June 2024: Typography and dark mode deployments, new global preferences]]: {{tq|Currently, we are aiming for the following dates for deployment: ...}}
* [[mw:Reading/Web/Accessibility for reading#Night mode 2]]: {{tq|Pilot release 	March–May 2024 // Release for all users 	Not defined}}
* [[mw:Reading/Web/Accessibility for reading/Frequently asked questions#What is the timeline of this project?]] – funnily enough, it's called "timeline", but has zero dates.
—⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 22:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Andrybak|Andrybak]] - good catch! We meant the Week of July 15th as stated in the first sentence - should have probably used the date again later in the message too. [[User:OVasileva (WMF)|OVasileva (WMF)]] ([[User talk:OVasileva (WMF)|talk]]) 15:24, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

== Watchlist bug ==
{{moved from|Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)}}

I started a section recently at [[WP:BLPN]].  Now BLPN is not showing up in results for my watchlist.  I used my “find” button to confirm this.  The only mention of [[WP:BLPN]] on my watchlist results is its talk page on July 13:

{{cquote|diffhist  mb Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard‎ 16:37  −2,321‎   ‎Lowercase sigmabot III talk contribs‎ (Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive 5) (bot) thank}}

[[User:Anythingyouwant|&#32;Anythingyouwant]] ([[User talk:Anythingyouwant|talk]]) 18:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:It’s showing up again now, thanks.[[User:Anythingyouwant|&#32;Anythingyouwant]] ([[User talk:Anythingyouwant|talk]]) 18:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Now the bug is back.  If the bug goes away again and stays away for at least a day, then I will report back here.[[User:Anythingyouwant|&#32;Anythingyouwant]] ([[User talk:Anythingyouwant|talk]]) 18:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::'''This''' page is for discussing changes to the noticeboard. If you are having a technical problem please list on noticeboard itself. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::And please don't misuse {{tlx|cquote}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::::How do you think I misused it [[User:Redrose64]]?[[User:Anythingyouwant|&#32;Anythingyouwant]] ([[User talk:Anythingyouwant|talk]]) 00:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Well, you're not quoting an extract from a piece of text, it's more of a sample output from a computer program, for which [https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/SPSD-html5-20180327/text-level-semantics.html#the-samp-element the {{tag|samp}} tags] are more properly intended. But if you want to draw attention to one particular edit, why not simply post the [[WP:DIFF|diff link]] for the edit concerned? Also, those big blue quotemarks are very much out of place. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility]] and Galleries ==

An editor claimed there is an accessibility issue with mobile version when it comes to galleries [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Example_of_fragmented_image_display_in_mobile_view.png] [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Turkey&diff=1234929888&oldid=1234929443], yet I see no issues when I tested with a mobile device. There's also [[MOS:ACCIM]], which makes the same claim about galleries. I'm just curious how up-to-date this information is? Many [[Wikipedia:Featured articles]] such as [[Climate change]] make use of galleries. 

Do the same issues apply to [[Help:Gallery tag|gallery tag]], as opposed to [[Template:Gallery]] (which resize the images)? [[User:Bogazicili|Bogazicili]] ([[User talk:Bogazicili|talk]]) 19:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

== Stretched navbox ==

[[Template:Video game controversy]] stretches outside of its outline, presumably because of there being no line break in [[Notice of the National Press and Publication Administration on Further Strict Management and Effective Prevention of Minors' Addiction to Online Games]]. Should the article name just be piped to a shortened version, or should someone put the bug in Phabricator? <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size: 90%;">[[User:QuietCicada|QuietCicada]]</span> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size: 70%;"> [[User talk:QuietCicada|chirp]]</span> 20:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

:I've seen a similar issue where tables extend past the content well, and obstruct the tools panel. [[List of current NFL stadiums]].  [[User:JWheeler-WMF|JWheeler-WMF]] ([[User talk:JWheeler-WMF|talk]]) 20:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
::From {{tl|navbox}}:
::<blockquote>{{tl|navbox}} automatically adds the class nowraplinks which can be overridden, for example with |listclass=wraplinks.</blockquote> [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  20:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

==Discussion at [[:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Allow everyone to move pages in draftspace|Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) §&nbsp;Allow everyone to move pages in draftspace]]==
[[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Allow everyone to move pages in draftspace|Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) §&nbsp;Allow everyone to move pages in draftspace]].  [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 16:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->

== Sunsetting of goo.gl ==
{{Moved discussion to|Wikipedia:Link rot/URL change requests/Archives/2024/July#goo.gl|2=[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 08:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)}}

== Intermittent Python errors in background jobs ==

I intermittently get some errors on a background bot job.  The bot fails, more or less gracefully, and picks up again at the next run, so this is not urgent, but if there's a way to avoid these errors it would be good to know. The errors include:
* pywikibot.exceptions.ServerError: 502 Server Error: Server Hangup
* requests.exceptions.ConnectionError: ('Connection aborted.', RemoteDisconnected('Remote end closed connection without response'))
* pywikibot.exceptions.ServerError: 503 Server Error: Service Unavailable
* pymysql.err.OperationalError: (2006, "MySQL server has gone away (ConnectionResetError(104, 'Connection reset by peer'))")
Are there ways to retry in these cases, or do they indicate a server state in which the job is not going to be able to run anyway? [[User:Mike Christie|Mike Christie]] ([[User_talk:Mike Christie|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Mike_Christie|contribs]] -  [[User:Mike Christie/Reference library|library]]) 00:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

:Can be either. It can be an intermittent issue for 'any' request,  or it can be a specific request that is trying to do something that the server isn't expecting or that is taking too long to eexecute.. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::OK, thanks. These are always requests that run most of the time, so it's the intermittent issue.  Failing gracefully seems like the best option. [[User:Mike Christie|Mike Christie]] ([[User_talk:Mike Christie|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Mike_Christie|contribs]] -  [[User:Mike Christie/Reference library|library]]) 10:04, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

== Recommend articles ==

Is there a way to edit/change the “Recommended articles” that appear at the bottom of articles in mobile view? [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 19:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] Yes, it's possible to add specific entries. There are some details at [[mw:Help:Extension:RelatedArticles]] about that. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 19:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry, but that link didn’t help. I need more of a step by step instruction. 
::Also, why is this all hidden away on an extension and not editable directly from the article page? [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 20:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] For example, at [[New York City]] they have <code><nowiki>{{#related:Manhattan}}</nowiki></code> (and others) at the bottom of the article, written in the wikitext just above the categories.
:::I think it's setup like this (since 2015 when it was created) because it's intended to be useful to readers automatically, without any interaction needed (but with overrides available, like this, when required). [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 20:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Ok, I can see how it works at The NYC article… but take a look at [[Roberto Mogrovejo]] (just to pick an article at random)… there are NO “related” tags at all. The three “related articles” seem to just appear by magic. It isn’t very intuitive. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 01:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::It's explained at [[:mw:Help:Extension:RelatedArticles]]. By default they are selected automatically from a search so the editors don't have to do anything. You can override the automatic selection by adding <code><nowiki>{{#related:}}</nowiki></code>. We rarely do that. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::I understand that (now)… my concern is that, while this is (poorly) explained on a page at meta, there is nothing at the ''article'' level to help editors.
::::::Perhaps the easiest solution that I might suggest is to create a bot that would write the automatically chosen “related” tags somewhere in the article’s edit view (listed the way the manually chosen ones at the NYC article are listed). Then, if editors want to choose alternatives, they have something to edit right there on the page. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 12:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::It would be better to actually have an edit link on related article that opened the editor with the three currently algorithmically-defined articles pre-selected and appended to the page. It would be pretty straightforward to create a gadget that does this.
:::::::A bot doesn't sound like a good idea as the recommendations improve as new articles get edited or created.
:::::::I believe the reason they are currently not in the article or editing is encouraged is that they do not show on the desktop site. It would also be nice if these showed up on desktop experience as well to avoid confusion. <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 23:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Related articles are deliberately only shown in mobile and Timeless in most Wikimedia wikis. https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php says:
::::::::<syntaxhighlight lang="php">
'wgRelatedArticlesFooterAllowedSkins' => [
	'default' => [ 'minerva', 'timeless' ], // T144812, T181242
	'dewiki' => [ 'minerva' ], // T278611
	'eswikinews' => [], // T230660
	'frwikinews' => [], // T341105
	'htwiki' => [ 'minerva', 'vector', 'vector-2022', 'timeless' ], // T126826, T298916
	'hewiki' => [ 'minerva', 'vector', 'vector-2022', 'timeless' ], // T191573, T298916
	'wikivoyage' => [ 'minerva', 'vector', 'vector-2022', 'timeless' ], // T298916
	'zhwikinews' => [], // T299856
],
</syntaxhighlight>
::::::::I don't know how it was decided but mobile omits navboxes and categories so there are fewer ways to navigate. It does work in Vector 2022 when it's enabled, e.g. at [[:ht:Wikipedya]] and [[:he:ויקיפדיה]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeh I honestly can't remember why disabled on desktop, but yes it would be trivial to add these to English Wikipedia desktop for any skin if it was requested and it would likely lead to better recommendations on the long term.
:::::::::Probably worth a quick RFC or discussion under [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)]] if someone feels inclined to do that. [[User:Jon (WMF)|Jon (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jon (WMF)|talk]]) 02:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

== Alphabetical comparison of 2 strings ==

Does anyone know of a template or module which would allow me to give it two strings and simply return the one that comes first alphabetically (perhaps with a switch to choose between ascending or descending order)? [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 22:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Joshbaumgartner|Joshbaumgartner]] just checking, you want an {{tl|min}} function but for stings? So for example <code><nowiki>{{minstring|foo|bar|biz}} --> bar</nowiki></code> ? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Xaosflux|Xaosflux]] That would be exactly right.  The ability to have more than 2 strings compared would be great, though I only had 2 in mind for my purpose.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 22:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Maybe you can use {{tl|sort list}}. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::
:::Or make a simple sortable wikitable; see [[Help:Sortable tables]].  Easy to sort more than two strings and easy to do ascending or descending sorts.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 00:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks, the thing is that I just want the first item returned because that value will be used in a template and further processed to format an output.  Maybe I can process the list to strip all the rest of the list away but it would be a lot simpler if there were a way to just get the single value back.  I looked at {{tl|sort list}} but I don't have the Lua chops to modify the module to give me the single value back, or to be called without having to use multiple lines to provide the input.  The functionality of {{tl|min}} is exactly what would be most efficient to employ in the template I am developing, just I need it to work on strings.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 01:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:Lua supports less-than comparison between strings, so it would be straightforward to implement. (The implementation from [[Module:Math]] could be copied with the code enforcing numeric arguments removed, but being comfortable with Lua would be helpful as it uses various implementation techniques for reusability and efficiency.) I believe the result, however, would be dependent on the installed locale on the server and thus I'm not sure if it would be consistent, or would work across all Unicode characters. The same issue also exists for {{tl|sort list}}, though, so I don't know if this is a problem for your specific use case. [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 04:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:: Looks like modern MediaWiki forces the C.UTF-8 locale, so results should be consistent. Even before that, since [[phab:T107128]] Wikimedia wikis have set that locale. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 11:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I'll be honest, I am not even at a beginner level with Lua.  I've perused a few modules and made the slightest of tweaks to one or two of them, but I would rank my Lua fluency only about 3 microns above 0.  I sure that for someone of even intermediate ability this function is probably child's play, but I'm barely at newborn level, so this is why I have appealed to the community to find out if this function is already out there somewhere.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 13:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Can you explain a bit more about the intended use? [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 13:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Sure, I am working on a template that will determine complex category names based on elements provided and within the context of a given topic.  In some topics, the elements are done alphabetically, so it needs to compare multiple elements and determine which comes first in the target category name.  For example, say it knows it is combining 'children' and 'adult humans', it needs to know which to list first.  The correct target is 'adult humans with children', as 'children with adult humans' would be a redirect or redlink.  If I could simply use <nowiki>{{min|children|adult humans}}</nowiki> and get "adult humans" back, it would be super easy for the template to correctly form the target category name based on that.  Of course {{tl|min}} is only for numbers, so it'd need to be a function that worked on strings.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 14:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::I'm a bit confused by the example, since the two don't seem equivalent and an alphabetical sort doesn't seem like a reasonable way to choose one over the other. It feels like the code would need to search through category hierarchies to find the most suitable category? [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 17:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I don't need it to do any category hierarchy searching, as the structure is already known and set.  It doesn't really matter to me, or at least to this template, why the category names are arranged they way they are, that's already a fact of life.  I have something that works now, so thank you again for the input!  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 02:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Joshbaumgartner|Joshbaumgartner]], see if <code>&#123;&#123;[[Template:Switch by pattern|Switch by pattern]]|_input= 'children' and 'adult humans' |adult humans|children|_returnall=x |_returncaptures=x |_outputsep=_with_&#125;&#125;</code> → <nowiki>{{Switch by pattern|_input= 'children' and 'adult humans' |adult humans|children|_returnall=x |_returncaptures=x |_outputsep=_with_}}</nowiki> can help. You can use {{para|_outputsep|<nowiki>{{sp}}with{{sp}}</nowiki>}} as well. This way you may need no further processing for your category name. [[User:Ponor|Ponor]] ([[User talk:Ponor|talk]]) 18:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC) + 19:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks, I will give that one a shot and see how well it works.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 22:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::^-- this is important because of how parsing and nesting may work; especially if you are trying to input something dynamic, and use the output as in input to something else. Writing a lua to purely take some pieces of raw text (so long as they are not very long), sort, and display the first value isn't super hard -- however it may need to be written in different ways depending on if the inputs are just text and the format of the output. For example if the inputs are <code><nowiki>{bravo,[[alpha]],charlie,alphabet}</nowiki></code> does the link need to be delinked, or should the brackets be sorted? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::That makes sense.  For my application, it will be getting raw text in all lowercase.  Initially it should be only two values, but it would be nice if that had growth potential to all for more (as {{tl|min}} does).  I would not think any de-linking or other such formatting would be required on the function side.  [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 15:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:Thank you everyone for the input.  The following code does the trick exactly:
:<syntaxhighlight>local p = {}
:p.main = function ( frame )
:	str1 = frame.args[1]
:	str2 = frame.args[2]
:	if str1 < str2 then
:		return str1
:	else
:    	return str2
:	end
:end
:return p</syntaxhighlight>
:Thanks! I've created a simple [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Str_min template here] to use it. [[User:Joshbaumgartner|Josh]] ([[User talk:Joshbaumgartner|talk]]) 02:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

== List of pages containing sic with hide ==

How can I generate a list of pages containing {{tlx|sic}} with the optional {{para|hide}} argument? -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 05:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:The "monthly report" in the TemplateData section is sometimes helpful. [https://bambots.brucemyers.com/TemplateParam.php?action=paramlinks&wiki=enwiki&template=Sic&param=hide This list might be what you want]. It's based on the monthly database dump, so it won't be current. The most recent report shows 4,277 articles. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 05:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::You can also try a live search like {{search link|1=hastemplate:sic insource:hide insource:/\{{!}} *hide *=/}} [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 09:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks (and for {{tlx|search link}} I'd not seen before). My goal is to find uses of {{tld|sic}} embedded in URLs ie. {{search link|1=hastemplate:sic insource:hide insource:/\{{!}} *hide *=/ insource:/[-]\{\{sic/ }}, has about 80. To get them all I'd probably need to change the last regex to <code><nowiki>insource:/[^ ]{{sic/</nowiki></code> then use a bot to see if it's in a URL, in which case might as well use the larger number from Jonesey95. Only trying to understand how widespread this intractable problem is. Employing {{tld|sic}} or not in these situations is a bad choice either way, and I don't see a good solution. If you don't add {{tld|sic}} then users and user scripts/AWB etc search and replace misspellings, breaking the URL. If you do add {{tld|sic}}, it breaks bots and tools which can't parse multiple encoding schemes, it violates the IETF RFC on URL encoding standards. In theory bots and tools should account for it, but it's an edge case and difficult to program for, I'd be surprised if any tools or bots are aware of it.   -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 15:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|GreenC}} {{tl|nobots}} may be of use. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 23:52, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::::: I don't think {{tl|nobots}} would make sense here. Even {{tlg|bots|deny{{=}}AWB}} would probably be excessive. [[WP:SPELLBOT]] basically prohibits spell-checking bots, and if a human editor is using AWB or some other tool or script (or even manual "fixing") to break URLs while spell-checking then [[WP:MEATBOT]] would apply if they refuse to be more careful with their edits. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 13:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::::: OTOH, I suspect the editors adding {{tl|sic}} inside URLs aren't trying to stop bots or scripts from ''fixing'' them so much as trying to clear a search for misspellings as they fix the ones that can correctly be fixed. Checking the first few from GreenC's search above finds [[Special:Diff/1218723259|all]] [[Special:Diff/1218723396|were]] [[Special:Diff/1224287742|added]] [[Special:Diff/1220013058|by]] [[User:Federhalter]], so pinging {{them|Federhalter}} in the hope {{they|Federhalter}} will elucidate {{their|Federhalter}} process and {{they|Federhalter}} and [[User:GreenC|GreenC]] can come to a better solution. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 13:14, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::OK thanks for pinging Federhalter, hope they respond. 
::::::Using this template or not has deleterious effects over the long term. How many URLs have been silently broken by spell checkers, we never know. How many URLs have been mangled by bots, or link rot incorrectly detected, because of the template. My intuition is the spell checker problem is more common because there are more editors running spell checks; and we hope bot writers are more expert to deal with the template. The template thus might have the advantage, though neither is a good solution. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 16:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::Indeed, these edits were a (misguided) attempt to exclude misspellings from search results, e.g. {{search link|1=Carribean insource:/carribean/i}}. At the time I was unaware this can cause problems. I learned since then. The reason for including the parameter 'insource' in the first place, instead of simply using {{search link|1=Carribean}}, is that the latter returns (a lot of) results which are only a "redirect from" a misspelled title and do not contain an actual misspelling. I could not yet find an alternative search method for fixing this. [[User:Federhalter|Federhalter]] ([[User talk:Federhalter|talk]]) 07:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

== Fix Infobox: [[Dylan Dog]] ==

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post a request. Could someone please check the page [[Dylan Dog]] and fix the infobox? I'm a bit out of practice with formatting standards. Also, what would have been the correct place to make this request? Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/100.19.66.49|100.19.66.49]] ([[User talk:100.19.66.49|talk]]) 15:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

:Seems it was fixed here [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Dylan_Dog&diff=1235857808&oldid=1235853613] and [[WP:HELPDESK]] would have been a righter place. I remember reading that comic. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 16:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

== [[User_talk:Rosiestep#Helen_Hunt_Jackson]] ==

<s>Help! I've somehow broken a friend's talkpage so that the indentations have turned into parentheses. I don't know how you even do that.... <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 8.9% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]].</sub></span> 11:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
</s>

It was a stray &lt;/div> from a section higher. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 8.9% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]].</sub></span> 13:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

== Issue with archive bot (Lowercase sigmabot III) ==

I think something may be wrong with [[User:Lowercase sigmabot III|Lowercase sigmabot III]]. Looking at [[Special:Contributions/Lowercase_sigmabot_III|its contributions]], it only archived ''4'' talk pages on the 19th, about 80 on the 20th, and only 4 so far today. For comparison, it usually seems to archive many hundreds or thousands (for example on the 18th it archived well over 700). Any insight? <span style="border: 1px solid red; padding: 2px;">[[User:GhostOfNoMeme|GhostOfNoMeme]]</span> 09:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

:Please contact the bot owner, they are the only one who can change/check the bot. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 10:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::Unfortunately, they seem MIA. No edits for 2 years, and no response to past messages on their talk page. I suppose there's nothing that can be done. <span style="border: 1px solid red; padding: 2px;">[[User:GhostOfNoMeme|GhostOfNoMeme]]</span> 10:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::That's pessimistic, [[User:GhostOfNoMeme|GhostOfNoMeme]]. Well, the bot didn't start on the 19th, and I can't tell why, but it hasn't reoccurred, so let's not worry about it for now. On the 20th it ran into an issue partway through its run. I've put in a workaround so that is less likely going forward. And today it's been running fine. (It doesn't start until 12:00 UTC, so that's why you didn't see any activity when you started this thread.) —&#8239;[[User:The Earwig|<span style="opacity:0.8;">The</span>&nbsp;Earwig]]&nbsp;([[User talk:The Earwig|talk]]) 23:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Ah, good to know. Thanks! I'd seen a very recent mention on the creator's talk page of the impending deflagging of another of his bots due to activity. I'm not particularly familiar with how bots are created, maintained, or reviewed, so I assumed the worst. Appreciate the info {{u|The Earwig}}! <span style="border: 1px solid red; padding: 2px;">[[User:GhostOfNoMeme|GhostOfNoMeme]]</span> 13:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
: [https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/sigma Toolsadmin] suggests that {{u|0xDeadbeef}} and {{u|The Earwig}} might be undocumented co-operators. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 15:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks, [[User:Pppery|Pppery]]. I added myself as a co-maintainer on the bot's userpage. —&#8239;[[User:The Earwig|<span style="opacity:0.8;">The</span>&nbsp;Earwig]]&nbsp;([[User talk:The Earwig|talk]]) 23:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:This may be [[phab:T370603]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::Seems unrelated, unless IABot is also having issues due to high maxlag. —&#8239;[[User:The Earwig|<span style="opacity:0.8;">The</span>&nbsp;Earwig]]&nbsp;([[User talk:The Earwig|talk]]) 23:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

== Unstrip post-expand size limit ==

Hello, I'm working on a fairly large page that may be coming up against some technical limits.  One may be the Unstrip post-expand size. But I can't say I understand much about this datum and the help files don't say much.  Do these stats look problematic?  Except for the Unstrip post-expand size value none are more than about 50% of the limit.

Post-expand include size
1,155,959/2,097,152 bytes
Template argument size
9,599/2,097,152 bytes
Highest expansion depth
16/100
Expensive parser function count
37/500
Unstrip recursion depth
1/20
Unstrip post-expand size
4,254,075/5,000,000 bytes

My understanding is that the Post-expand include size is a hard limit, but don't know about Unstrip post-expand size. [[User:Mr swordfish|Mr. Swordfish]] ([[User talk:Mr swordfish|talk]]) 21:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:See [[Help:Template limits#Unstrip post-expand size]] and [[:mw:Manual:Template limits#Unstrip post-expand size]]. You may lose styling from TemplateStyles at the end of the page if the limit is broken. The latter link also says "some other extensions implemented in a similar manner". I don't know which extentions can be affected. I have never encountered this limit in practice. [[:Category:Pages where the unstrip size limit is exceeded]] only lists two articles and 13 other pages. The bottom of [[List of Android smartphones]] currently shows what can happen when navbox styling is lost from [[Template:Android (operating system)]]. Which page are you referring to? [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for your prompt reply. The two links you provided say the same thing, and don't tell me much. I'd already read the first one.
::The page in question is [[List of common misconceptions]]. See the next thread. [[User:Mr swordfish|Mr. Swordfish]] ([[User talk:Mr swordfish|talk]]) 01:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::The large Unstrip post-expand size mainly comes from numerous citations loading [[Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css]]. If it was blank then [[List of common misconceptions]] would use 1,640,908 instead of 4,298,458 of the allowed 5,000,000 bytes. Maybe we should try to reduce the impact of loading it. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Does that count include the comments in that css file? Maybe it would help just minimizing it to a styles.min.css, and loading that instead? --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 21:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::: No, it's the minimized CSS that's counted. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 23:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Surely enough page views have at least one citation on them that it would make sense to merge that into the main [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 21:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::[[MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#description]] has a discussion about why we should prefer TemplateStyles categorically. But specific to numbers, no, we have something like 60 million pages and only 6 million of them carry a CS1 template.
:::::I would object to changing anything here, for both the reasons espoused in the to do page and because we should not change general templates to suit the whims of arbitrary edge case pages. There are approximately 3 main space pages which are hitting an issue with this limit. Reduce their size per [[WP:SIZE]]/[[WP:SPLIT]] as expected of such pages. This is the standard response to such hard limits as are imposed by the software. To be honest, I'm shocked that any pages hit the unstrip limit, it's very hard to do that (almost always, a page will hit [[WP:PEIS]] first). [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::Maybe adding the styles to {{tl|Reflist}} can be a possible solution? [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 03:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Citations are used outside of reflist and on pages without the reflist template all the time. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::Is the relevant metric "pages", or "page views"? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 16:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::::I can't find it now, but some years ago I expressed a concern that if a template was used multiple times then multiple copies of its template styles would be loaded. I was assured that this could not happen, only the first instance would be processed. It now seems that I was misinformed. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::: Only the first instance in the page is served to the browser. The situation here, on the other hand, is counting on the server before the deduplication happens. See my comment in the section below for details. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 23:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

=== PEIS question ===

We have a question at [[Talk:List of common misconceptions#c-Rollinginhisgrave-20240720200800-Split proposal|Talk:List of common misconceptions#Split proposal]] about [[Help:Template limits]].  This is one of [[Special:LongPages|our largest pages]], with 569,144 bytes of wikitext, 869 refs, and 1,220 templates.  I think it would be best to answer it [[Talk:List of common misconceptions#c-Rollinginhisgrave-20240720200800-Split proposal|'''over there''']]. [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 22:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

:The post-expansion inclusion size of that page is currently a bit above 50% of the limit. so that should not be much of an issue.  OTOH, the Unstrip post-expand size is over 80% of the limit, which may or may not be an issue.  See the previous thread. Yeah, we could use some informed technical advice, either here or at the talk page there. [[User:Mr swordfish|Mr. Swordfish]] ([[User talk:Mr swordfish|talk]]) 01:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
: Looks like much of the "Unstrip post-expand size" is it counting every repetition of the TemplateStyles stylesheets, even though these are deduplicated before the article is sent to the browser (somewhat unfortunately that's the direction {{phab|T160563}} wound up going in). Which means, for example, the minified version of [[Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css]] is counted 1113 times even though it's only included in the page output once. If the limit winds up being exceeded, then TemplateStyles {{tag|style|o}} tags at the end of the article (like for the portal bar) might wind up broken. "Manual" deduplication for the cite template styles (i.e. sticking one {{tag|templatestyles|attribs=src="Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css"|s}} before the {{tag|references|s}} and passing an arg to all the cite templates to have them not include that) might work, but in more general cases you'd want to be careful that the on-demand section loading for the mobile apps (if they still do that) doesn't break. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 13:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

== Mediawiki errors ==

{{tracked|T370304}}
Has anyone else been experiencing MediaWiki errors? I tried a few projects and got them across the board. I hope it's over now. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>[[User:Zanahary|Zanahary]]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 00:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

:I was also getting an error. I don't remember the exact error but it did start with MediaWiki: Wikimedia\Rdbms\[error name] I think it was [https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/classWikimedia_1_1Rdbms_1_1DBUnexpectedError.html DBUnexpectedError] [[User:J2UDY7r00CRjH|J2UDY7r00CRjH]] ([[User talk:J2UDY7r00CRjH|talk]]) 00:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:I get this:
<pre>MediaWiki internal error.

Original exception: [34ac1401-8578-4b58-a1be-36b1278fa8bf] 2024-07-19 00:14:57: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBUnexpectedError"

Exception caught inside exception handler.

Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.
</pre>
:It has been happening on and off for about 10 minutes. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:I got that when I was previewing an edit, and another time when (IIRC) I just visited a user page. '''[[User:ClaudineChionh|ClaudineChionh]]''' <small>(''she/her'' · [[User talk:ClaudineChionh|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/ClaudineChionh|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/ClaudineChionh|email]])</small> 00:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:Help, I'm drowning. It keeps happening every edit I make! The edits do seem to go through though, so there's that. [[User:Silver seren|<span style="color: dimgrey;">Silver</span>]][[User talk:Silver seren|<span style="color: blue;">seren</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Silver seren|C]]</sup> 00:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::I cannot make this edit logged in. I got the error several times, changed my theme to Minerva, changed my theme to Vector 2022, and now cannot open any page while logged in. It's fine (I think?) logged out, and the Android app works but can't post to this page, [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:1C50:1360:18FA:42C0:F510:BE6A|2600:1702:1C50:1360:18FA:42C0:F510:BE6A]] ([[User talk:2600:1702:1C50:1360:18FA:42C0:F510:BE6A|talk]]) 00:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I have the exact same problem. [[Special:Contributions/2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09|2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09]] ([[User talk:2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09|talk]]) 00:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::I am getting this too. I was not happening earlier today (Two hours ago). Looks like [[WP:THURSDAY]]. [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 00:52, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*It's not letting me delete any pages or posts responses to talk page comments. Frustrating. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 00:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*:except for this one. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 00:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*::The discussions I initiate are particularly robust and bugs know to leave them alone, out of reverence and disinterest. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>[[User:Zanahary|Zanahary]]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 01:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*::The last page deleted happened at 00:22 UTC which was 50 minutes ago. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*:::Okay, some functionality for admins has returned. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
: I had three almost identical messages like these, with different exception codes:
:* [f1541cf5-6bd5-4dac-bb64-7cff625c7692] 2024-07-19 00:40:42
:* [ec5f67e0-1672-48da-8f70-a53aecdb9ad3] 2024-07-19 00:42:17
:* [18674d8b-749c-40be-9138-0eba30011100] 2024-07-19 00:46:26
: In between edits #1 and 2, I managed to save one edit. In trying to publish this edit, I got <s>1</s> <s>2</s> 3 more of these. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 00:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::Fyi, exception codes are always different. One per page load. Even if the error msg is the same. I think they correspond to error log entries. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 19:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:Same, so dead. Can't navigate, edit, or view hardly any page when logged in without getting that error/warning page. Hope this gets fixed soon. [[Special:Contributions/2606:A800:CD82:9700:1DE4:7632:6615:835C|2606:A800:CD82:9700:1DE4:7632:6615:835C]] ([[User talk:2606:A800:CD82:9700:1DE4:7632:6615:835C|talk]]) 00:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah, I'm the same. I can't do anything when logged in. The iOS app appears to be working fine though. [[Special:Contributions/2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09|2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09]] ([[User talk:2001:BB6:3084:2658:F14B:6D9A:F011:5C09|talk]]) 00:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T370304. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 01:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm the user who mentioned the iOS app above. Everything appears to be working okay now. [[User:Bertaut|Bertaut]] ([[User talk:Bertaut|talk]]) 01:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I was about to ask whether anyone else had seen these errors.  I don't think that I need to ask the question.  It appears to have been resolved.  
:::::The question now is what happened and whether a recurrence can be prevented.  [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 02:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: According to some logs on IRC the database serving [[wikitech:S4|S4]] (Commons) went down. For reasons I don't quite understand that caused pages with no relation to Commons to fail. Probably the devs will write up some docs on what happened soon. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 19:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 
* The [[Wikimedia:Legal:IP Information tool guidelines|IP information tool]] appears to be down, showing only "The IP information could not be retrieved." I wonder if that's related. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 08:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*: Not related. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 19:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*:[[phab:T363118]] –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 19:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*::Aww, I really hoped it was not the previous April/May issues. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 03:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
*Idea: [[2024 CrowdStrike incident]]. I hope not, because that would mean that we depend upon Microsoft. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
*: No, not related. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 19:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
I thought I'd lost two or three hours of work on [[Timeline of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump]], i.e. the entire new article. When I set about to begin it anew this morning, lo! It was all there! Passingly strange and a P.I.T.A. [[User:Kencf0618|kencf0618]] ([[User talk:Kencf0618|talk]]) 16:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

*I'm seeing this problem again. It's not letting me post some talk page messages. Let's see if this gets posted. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
*:Weird, my message gets posted but I still am receiving error messages at the same time as if it didn't post. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
*::I'm experiencing this occasionally still. It could be a caching issue on my end from earlier errors I experienced this morning, though. Frustrating. Thankfully my talk page messages still seem to go through (eventually). <span style="border: 1px solid red; padding: 2px;">[[User:GhostOfNoMeme|GhostOfNoMeme]]</span> 13:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
*I currently can't open any pages while logged in. My account is basically disabled because of this. Are there any updates? [[Special:Contributions/95.164.181.95|95.164.181.95]] ([[User talk:95.164.181.95|talk]]) 01:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

===Folks are on it===
I'll just note that the phab ticket is currently marked "Open, In Progress, Unbreak Now!".  Translating from techno-speak, that basically means, "We know about it, we're working on it, and it's our highest priority issue at the moment".  So we should just get out of their hair and let them work on it.  [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 16:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
: And it's the weekend so while some of WMF's [[site reliability engineering]] team remains on-call to deal with outages probably fixing things is a higher priority than reporting the incident. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

===Error message===

MediaWiki internal error

What does this mean?  [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 01:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
: See [[#Mediawiki errors]]. It means that things beyond your control are down, and there's nothing you can do about. The WMF people responsible for fixing the issue have already been notified. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

::Thanks for the quick reply.  At least I know I didn't trigger it. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 01:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::What's going on? I'm new here and could use some help.[[United States|United StatesẂÈĎ]] 
::§ᛵᛠᙱᙳ@[[User:Maile66|Maile66]]@[[User:Pppery|Pppery]] [[User:Will&#59;Draku|Will&#59;Draku]] ([[User talk:Will&#59;Draku|talk]]) 08:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

=== MediaWiki internal error. ===

I have been getting repeated "MediaWiki internal error.

Original exception: [d0d3b60c-5f72-4e07-ae15-3451f56eefcf] 2024-07-21 21:00:09: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBUnexpectedError"

Exception caught inside exception handler.

Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information."

messages tonight, had them last night too. the bit inside the square brackets changes each time. Happens when I click on a page link on my watchlist. Edge on Win11, also happens on Chrome on Android. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 21:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:I just had this, I would assume this is the same as [[#Mediawiki errors]], although https://www.wikimediastatus.net/ is showing something happened.[[User:Terasail|<span style="color:#088; font-weight:750;">Terasail</span>]][[User talk:Terasail|<sup><span style="color:#000;">'''[✉️]'''</span></sup>]] 21:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:Only affects me while logged in.  It's surreal looking at [[Special:Recentchanges]] and seeing a page full of only ip edits. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 21:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::See the [[#Mediawiki errors]] thread above.  Things were good for the past day or so, then another big spike of errors around 2100 UTC (i.e. about 20 minutes ago). [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 21:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

=== Database error ===

Attempting to post a reply on a talk page, and it fails to post, with the error:

{{tq|[81c7ca0f-eea1-42f7-8924-5a63e7dbb4cf] Caught exception of type Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBUnexpectedError}}

I'm betting I'll probably get the same error while trying to report this error... cheers. [[User:Anastrophe|anastrophe]], [[User talk:Anastrophe|an editor he is.]] 01:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

:And it posted, and the post on the talk page went through on a retry just now. Whee!  cheers. [[User:Anastrophe|anastrophe]], [[User talk:Anastrophe|an editor he is.]] 01:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::There was an outage affecting mostly logged-in page views (but mostly not logged-out page views, or logged-in edits – so you might have been able to save your comment, but not see it afterwards). I'll merge this with the section above that discusses it. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 16:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

== WMF sabotage? ==

I assume that since loads of stuff has stopped working with every skin ''except'' Vector (2022), this is a deliberate way of forcing editors to switch to it even though no one wanted it in the first place. Nice call!  [[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:red">——Serial Number 54129</span>]] 09:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:I see no sign of that. If you tell us your skin and what isn't working then maybe we can help. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Of course {{u|PrimeHunter}}, and apologies to WMF for the hyperbole. but it's blooming odd. I haven't touched my scripts for over a month—I know there's probably too many!—but over the last week (not sure absolutely since when), [[User:Equazcion/OneClickArchiver.js|One-Click Archiver]] ''and'' [[User:DannyS712/DiscussionCloser.js|Discussion Closer]] have disappeared from where they used to be. I noticed the latter's absence earlier when I tried to close a discussion. Tried all the available skins in preferences, the two scripts were missing in all of them except Vector 2022. Coincidence? Hence my outraged squawks of sabotage  :)  I'm using Vector 2010 btw.  [[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:red">——Serial Number 54129</span>]] 11:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Serial Number 54129}} That is, indeed, catastrophically egregious. Have you considered using [[User:Elli/OneClickArchiver.js]] and/or molotov cocktails? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 11:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Both scripts should have been updated for changes that have been communicated multiple times in the Tech News newsletter, scripts without active maintainers aren't the responsibility of the Foundation. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  12:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Serial Number 54129}}, these are symptoms of a recent change in the HTML markup of headings, which you can see more about at [[mw:Heading HTML changes]], and these scripts having inactive maintainers. There are new versions of the scripts you mention at [[User:DaxServer/DiscussionCloser]] and [[User:Elli/OneClickArchiver]]. [[User:Curbon7|Curbon7]] ([[User talk:Curbon7|talk]]) 12:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::It's so complicated![/MOANS] I deal with it now. Thanks for all your help, {{reply|PrimeHunter|Sjoerddebruin|Curbon7}} and I guess you too {{u|Polygnotus}}  :p  [[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:red">——Serial Number 54129</span>]] 12:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Serial Number 54129|Serial Number 54129]] The good news is that all this stuff will break for Vector 2022 in the near future as well. The markup changes that broke those scripts was implemented on older skins first, but will be implemented on Vector 2022 in MediaWiki 1.44. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 14:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:Serial Number 54129|Serial Number 54129]], I've already had to updaye one of my scripts to work in Vector 2022 because of some html change, not sure if that's related.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1721059507718:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
:Absolutely unacceptable opening comment. I just have to say it. F'ing 100k edits lets people get away with this shit I guess. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 18:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah, this is ridiculous. How is "WMF sabotage" appropriate in any circumstance? @[[User:Serial Number 54129|Serial Number 54129]], if you were serious when you said "apologies to WMF for the hyperbole", you should've changed the section heading and struck your initial comments. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 04:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Hey {{u|TheDJ}}, hey {{u|Legoktm}}  here I am, for your delectation :)  '''*waves*'''  [[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:red">——Serial Number 54129</span>]] 21:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Serial Number 54129|Serial Number 54129]] I do not appreciate my good-faith efforts to improve the software you use being described as "sabotage". [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 16:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
The title of this thread is rather hyperbolic, but there is something to be said about how this breakage came to be.  Wikipedia depends on hundreds (if not thousands) of add-on front-end scripts (and other back-end tools) to do essential work.  I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say that if all these tools were to suddenly stop working, it would be very difficult to keep things going.  These tools depend on navigating (and in many cases, modifying) [[Document object model|the structure of a rendered page]].  As such, the structure of the HTML is an essential API, just as much as [[mw:API|any of the other documented APIs]].  The problem is, it's not documented.  And as we've seen here, it's subject to change with little or no notice, breaking stuff willy-nilly.  That needs to change. [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 14:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:All changes like this are clearly communicated wide ahead. That users keep using outdated scripts (or fork a existing script and never process the upstream changes) and we as the community have no way to force them to switch to a maintained version (or gadget) is a huge problem in the longer term. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  14:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{ec}} The issue here isn't little to no notice. The notice was given in Tech news updates and I had seen in the passing some repeated pings and conversations (or attempts to do so) on the various talk pages with the maintainers. Some of these userscripts as noted by some above were abandoned or maintainers not being active.
:If anything, we should look at how the userscript system is being set up (by limitations of the software) to be dependent on bus factor of 1 editor, the maintainer to have the userscript updated. Are INTADMINS empowered to update these userscripts? If so, is having 9 INTADMINs (at the current count) sufficient to update and maintain the userscripts or even redirect these outdated userscripts to the updated ones when asked? [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 14:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Is there a centralised place that lists all the common userscripts and who runs them? I think such a list might be helpful to track this sort of thing. Especially if you add maybe a "Last updated" + "How many editors use it" column. If a script is not updated and it falls behind, it's much easier to follow along or maybe notify editors. [[User:Soni|Soni]] ([[User talk:Soni|talk]])  15:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::For most used, see [[Wikipedia:User scripts/Most imported scripts]]. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::For a general list see [[Wikipedia:User scripts/List]] [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 15:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::It's a pretty common problem with volunteer-written software. People often aren't great at succession planning, particularly when there is no financial incentive. Having the software be open source and thus available is probably good enough for small scripts. Once the tools become more elaborate, possibly with off-wiki build systems using languages other than Javascript, something more definite would be better. But it's a tradeoff: in the spirit of empowering anyone to build their own personal tools that can also be used by others, the community doesn't require any approvals that might be contingent on a long-term sustainable setup for maintenance (after all, the vast majority of scripts like the ones I wrote aren't ever going to need that). Human nature being what it is, it's hard to get backup developers ready unless they actually start taking over some of the development. But working in a team means some slowdown in development to co-ordinate and collaborate, though with the eventual benefit that there will be more redundancy in developers able to make fixes and enhancements. [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 16:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::There is seldom a backlog (see [[User:AnomieBOT/IPERTable]]) of ready-to-go bug fixes on abandoned user script pages. It is not up to intadmins to maintain the programming of everyone's personal scripts, but we will process bugfixes if the script owner has abandoned the project. In general, editors should never assume that another editor will make a future edit and could abandon or change their own personal scripts at anytime. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 18:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:Anyone reading this may be interested in [[phab:T337286|this phab ticket for a "Gadget API for adding buttons to section titles"]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1721059660952:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:07, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Yeap. I was just going to drop a link to the phab ticket you linked, thanks for linking it. The ideal workflow would have been to create this API first, THEN start deploying [[mw:Heading HTML changes]]. And anything that broke could be converted to the new API. But unfortunately that didn't happen. So now I have just been waiting for them to finish the staggered rollout, which will finally complete this Thursday July 18. At that point we can fix any remaining broken scripts. These scripts could have been fixed during the staggered rollout, but patching it to support 2 types of selectors is more complicated than just waiting for the rollout to finish, so the ideal time to fix all these is when the rollout is finished on Thursday. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 21:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Oof. An implemented [[phab:T337286]] would have saved a {{em|lot}} of time spent on (mostly duplicate) work for userscript maintenance in [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 213#Heading markup changes]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 07:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Probably worth posting this on the [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist wishlist]. If more gadget developers are asking for an API, it makes an easier case for prioritizing it. <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 23:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

==  Dark Mode Text ==

In dark mode, at {{tl|Soulfly}}, the actual link for [[Soulfly]] is an extremely dark grey that is difficult to see on a black background.   Also, when editing, anything that is NOT a link is grey text on a white background.  It was not this way before.  Does anyone know how to fix this? --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 21:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:I get the same result. Any unvisited link is a helpful blue on a black background. Any visited link is dark gray (#202122, if I am reading my inspector correctly) on a black background (#101418, I think, which is "--background-color-base"). My inspector says that the contrast ratio is 1.14. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::*''' Reply '''- Thank you very much for your feedback.  I think that the first issue may be exclusive to {{tl|Navbox musical artist}}.  And now we wait, I suppose... --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 23:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Jdlrobson}} made some edits to {{tl|Navbox musical artist}} about a week ago that added {{code|color: #202122}} to several parameter styles. I'm still using the Dark Mode gadget rather than the Foundation version, and I'm not experiencing the issue in Vector 2022. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 10:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::--> [[Template_talk:Navbox#Make_navbox-title_links_show_in_dark_mode]] <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 18:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2024-30 ==

<section begin="technews-2024-W30"/><div class="plainlinks">
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/30|Translations]] are available.

'''Feature News'''
* Stewards can now [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Global_blocks|globally block]] accounts. Before [[phab:T17294|the change]] only IP addresses and IP ranges could be blocked globally. Global account blocks are useful when the blocked user should not be logged out. [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Global_locks|Global locks]] (a similar tool logging the user out of their account) are unaffected by this change. The new global account block feature is related to the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|Temporary Accounts]] project, which is a new type of user account that replaces IP addresses of unregistered editors that are no longer made public.
* Later this week, Wikimedia site users will notice that the Interface of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:FlaggedRevs|FlaggedRevs]] (also known as "Pending Changes") is improved and consistent with the rest of the MediaWiki interface and [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Codex|Wikimedia's design system]]. The FlaggedRevs interface experience on mobile and [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Skin:MinervaNeue|Minerva skin]] was inconsistent before it was fixed and ported to [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Codex|Codex]] by the WMF Growth team and some volunteers. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T191156]
*  Wikimedia site users can now submit account vanishing requests via [[m:Special:GlobalVanishRequest|GlobalVanishRequest]]. This feature is used when a contributor wishes to stop editing forever. It helps you hide your past association and edit to protect your privacy. Once processed, the account will be locked and renamed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T367329]
* Have you tried monitoring and addressing vandalism in Wikipedia using your phone? [https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/07/10/%d9%90addressing-vandalism-with-a-tap-the-journey-of-introducing-the-patrolling-feature-in-the-mobile-app/ A Diff blog post on Patrolling features in the Mobile App] highlights some of the new capabilities of the feature, including swiping through a feed of recent changes and a personal library of user talk messages for use when patrolling from your phone. 
* Wikimedia contributors and GLAM (galleries, libraries, archives, and museums) organisations can now learn and measure the impact Wikimedia Commons is having towards creating quality encyclopedic content using the [https://doc.wikimedia.org/generated-data-platform/aqs/analytics-api/reference/commons.html Commons Impact Metrics] analytics dashboard. The dashboard offers organizations analytics on things like monthly edits in a category, the most viewed files, and which Wikimedia articles are using Commons images. As a result of these new data dumps, GLAM organisation can more reliably measure their return on investment for programs bringing content into the digital Commons. [https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/07/19/commons-impact-metrics-now-available-via-data-dumps-and-api/]

'''Project Updates'''
*  Come share your ideas for improving the wikis on the newly reopened [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist|Community Wishlist]]. The Community Wishlist is Wikimedia’s forum for volunteers to share ideas (called wishes) to improve how the wikis work. The new version of the wishlist is always open, works with both wikitext and Visual Editor, and allows wishes in any language.

'''Learn more'''
* Have you ever wondered how Wikimedia software works across over 300 languages? This is 253 languages more than the Google Chrome interface, and it's no accident. The Language and Product Localization Team at the Wikimedia Foundation supports your work by adapting all the tools and interfaces in the MediaWiki software so that contributors in our movement who translate pages and strings can translate them and have the sites in all languages. Read more about the team and their upcoming work on [https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/07/17/building-towards-a-robust-multilingual-knowledge-ecosystem-for-the-wikimedia-movement/ Diff]. 
* How can Wikimedia build innovative and experimental products while maintaining such heavily used websites? A recent [https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/ blog post] by WMF staff Johan Jönsson highlights the work of the [[m:Future Audiences#Objectives and Key Results|WMF Future Audience initiative]], where the goal is not to build polished products but test out new ideas, such as a [[m:Future_Audiences/Experiments: conversational/generative AI|ChatGPT plugin]] and [[m:Future_Audiences/Experiment:Add a Fact|Add a Fact]], to help take Wikimedia into the future. 

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/30|Translate]]&nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].'' You can also get other news from the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin|Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin]].
</div><section end="technews-2024-W30"/>

<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]</bdi> 00:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&oldid=27142915 -->

== Adding parameter to an infobox ==

I would like to add a parameter called `committee_url` to [[Template:Infobox technology standard]] (see [[Template_talk:Infobox_technology_standard#Committee_URL|my comment]] there). I [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_technology_standard/doc&diff=cur&oldid=1236137521 tried unsuccessfully] to add it, but the template update didn't seem to propagate, such that I couldn't properly update the documentation. The edit was undone, I am boosting this request here given it is a quiet template. [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 03:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

:{{resolved|[[Template_talk:Infobox_technology_standard#Committee_URL]]}} [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 04:53, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

== How to transclude a specific section to a parent article ==

I would like to transclude [[Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/People#People|this section]] and only that section of that page to [[Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4|here]]. I tried using templates like [[Template:Excerpt]], but I can't seem to figure it out. I am hoping that someone can provide me with some guidance on how I can do this? [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 21:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

:The following syntax can be used: <code><nowiki>{{#section-h:Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/People|People}}</nowiki></code>. See  [[Help:Labeled section transclusion]] and [[Help:Section#Section transclusion]] for details. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 00:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks, I will try that. [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Andrybak|Andrybak]]: one more question: on [[Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4]] in the sections starting with Biology and health sciences, I have it as code. How do I fix that or can you fix it for me? [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 15:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::::The page is too big, it hit the limit of so called [[Help:Template limits#Post-expand include size|post-expand include size]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 15:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Andrybak|Andrybak]] Is there a different way to fix this? [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 16:03, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] I submitted a [https://github.com/kanasimi/wikibot/pull/55 pull request] to the bot that updates those pages which should greatly reduce the post-expand include size. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 17:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

== Some module timing out ==

I stumbled upon [[Special:Diff/1235643947|this diff]], where for some reason all lua calls fail. Does someone know why? — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 18:04, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Alien333}} {{wfm}}, and please see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 213#The time allocated for running scripts has expired]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{shrug}} Still not working for me (including after purge), but eh, it's a past diff anyways, so not important. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 18:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

== Automated tool that I can use to change headings to be one level down ==

I would like to edit the headings so that they are one level down like in [[Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/People#People|here]]. I know I could probably do it the old-fashioned way, but it would probably take up a lot of time to do so. I'm looking for an easy solution that I can use so that it will bring the headings one level down. For example: if it is a level 2 heading, I would like it into a level 3 heading. What would you recommend I do? Please ping me in your response. [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 23:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]], this will probably work with the regex find replace in the wikitext 2010 or 2017 editors: find <code>==([^=]*?)==</code>, replace <code>===$1===</code>, mark the find as a regex find, and then hit the appropriate go button. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 23:46, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Izno|Izno]]: How can I do this for turning level 1 headings into level 2 headings, level 2 headings into level 3 headings, and level 3 headings into level 4 headings, and so on? [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 00:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Search for: <code>^((={1,5})[^=\n][^\n]*\2)</code>
:::Replace with: <code>=$1=</code>
:::[[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 00:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== Cellullar data drain ==

Apologies if this is not the right place for my query. While using the Wikipedia app on iOS with a 4G connection, I received a notification from my provider stating I had only 5GB left in my data package. Eight minutes later, I received another message saying my data package was completely used up. Upon checking my cellular usage settings, I found that the Wikipedia app had consumed 6.8GB of data in just about 10 minutes. What could be the cause of this? [[Special:Contributions/141.196.107.237|141.196.107.237]] ([[User talk:141.196.107.237|talk]]) 05:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

:Could be that you looked at pages with many large images? [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]]) 06:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::I visited articles including the 2024 US presidential elections, January 6 Capitol attack, Trump assassination attempt, Joe Biden presidential campaign 2024, and the 2024 presidential debate. I’m not sure that these articles would use 6.8GB of data in such a short time. [[Special:Contributions/141.196.138.120|141.196.138.120]] ([[User talk:141.196.138.120|talk]]) 07:04, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:141, do you happen to have a large Reading List of articles saved for offline viewing? Is it possible that it was syncing across devices or refreshing its contents for another reason?{{pb}}I'm afraid most of us editors at English Wikipedia have very little experience with the apps, since they don't support full editing functionality. Someone here may have answers for you, but in case none are forthcoming, you could always ask the iOS app team directly at [[:mw:Talk:Wikimedia Apps]] or at the technical support email address listed at {{sectionlink|:mw:Wikimedia Apps/iOS FAQ|If I have a question or a suggestion, how do I get in touch?}} [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 09:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::No, I don’t have any reading lists saved for offline viewing. Thank you for providing the email address for further assistance. [[Special:Contributions/141.196.138.120|141.196.138.120]] ([[User talk:141.196.138.120|talk]]) 07:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:Hello,
:I'm Amal Ramadan, Senior Movement Communications Specialist supporting the mobile apps team at the foundation. After discussing this issue with our iOS engineer lead, we have created a ticket [[phab:T370790|T370790]] for further investigation. Please subscribe to it for updates. It would also be helpful if you could let us know if you were reading only or using multimedia options in the article as well. [[User:ARamadan-WMF|ARamadan-WMF]] ([[User talk:ARamadan-WMF|talk]]) 08:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== Screen blacking-out on mobile app ==

So I rrecently used my iPhone to access the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]] and the scrreen flickered between normal and black for about 10 seconds before going all black. Restarting the app doesn't fix this either. Unfortunately I have no image of this, but to describe it:

*The screen would flicker between being able to read, then white, then flickering black.
*Then the screen would stop flickering and go all-black. This isn't an issue with my device, as only a few pages within the Wikipedia app in specific do it.
*Every part of the screen was black except the upper search bar and the Wikipedia logo.
*Then I atttempted to restart the app and see if the glitch would go away, but it kept doing it.

I noticed that '''extremely long pages or threads will completely black-out iPhone screens''' (including the Teahouse, which is notoriously long). This can be a serious issue when trying to access something in-the-moment, and the Teahouse still is completely broken on my phone. I have no idea if this is even a Wikipedia-side issue, but yea. Just anted to make ya'll aware of this. I'll try to get an image tomorrow, it's prretty hard to explain. [[User:MemeGod27|Sir MemeGod ._.]] <small>([[User talk:Sir MemeGod|talk]] - [[Special:Contribs/Sir MemeGod|contribs]] - [[User:Sir MemeGod/Creations|created articles]])</small> 04:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

:Also I do apologize if this was the wrong place to report this. (I'd report it to Phabricator but I've never been able to access it due to a separate and unrelated glitch) [[User:MemeGod27|Sir MemeGod ._.]] <small>([[User talk:Sir MemeGod|talk]] - [[Special:Contribs/Sir MemeGod|contribs]] - [[User:Sir MemeGod/Creations|created articles]])</small> 04:18, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{U|MemeGod27}}, issues specific to the iOS app might get a more informed response at [[:mw:Talk:Wikimedia Apps]] or at the technical support email address listed at {{sectionlink|:mw:Wikimedia Apps/iOS FAQ | If I have a question or a suggestion, how do I get in touch?}} [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 10:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:Sir MemeGod|Sir MemeGod]],
:I'm Amal Ramadan, Senior Movement Communications Specialist supporting the mobile apps team at the foundation, can you send the model and iOS version of your device, please? I will forward it to our iOS engineers to work on solving it. 
:Also, you can follow with us through the iOS support email: ios-support@wikimedia.org
:Thanks. [[User:ARamadan-WMF|ARamadan-WMF]] ([[User talk:ARamadan-WMF|talk]]) 08:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== Removing subpage w/o name change? ==
{{tracked|T231692}}
Perhaps this is impossible, but I noticed that [[Talk:AC/DC]] is technically a subpage of the unrelated [[Talk:AC]] disambiguation, merely due to the backslash's double function as a title & subpage sorter (classic Wikipedia shenanigans). Is this removable somehow? Not a huge issue, but certainly not ideal either. '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 06:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
: Not possible right now. There's probably a task on Phabricator for it somewhere. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 06:19, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
::We could hide the parent page link to [[Talk:AC]] with <code>.page-Talk_AC_DC .subpages {display:none;}</code> in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] but I don't support it. Each unwanted link would need its own code and the increased CSS size doesn't seem worth it. It would still be a subpage with other associated features. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Could this be done with templatestyles, by creating something like {{tl|nobreadcrumbs}}? --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 11:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:::: No, because TemplateStyles can only style things inside <code>.mw-parser-output</code> and this isn't there. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 15:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Even if that weren't the case, doing it right in pure css would be difficult at best.  Consider what would need to be done to get [[Talk:AC/DC/Archive 1]]'s breadcrumbs to look right. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 18:21, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Aza24}} It's been a known issue (see [[WP:TITLESLASH]]) for at least as long as I've been on Wikipedia (15+ years). Also, it's not a [[backslash]] but a [[Slash (punctuation)|slash]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
::Gotcha. Well, worth a shot :) '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 18:20, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== UX nit: on-hover of link to same page ==

When a wikilink on a page points to that same page, it displays as bold rather than regular blue. These are not clickable links, as one is already on that page. As of...recently...however, the mouse cursor over these items still turns from the normal pointer into the hand as if it were a regular link. Vector2022, Firefox-115.13.0esr. Examples tested are <nowiki>[[User:DMacks]]</nowiki> on User:DMacks and spot-checking several navboxes (mainspace pages that transclude templates with a link to the mainspace page). [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 22:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== Not using screen width ==

I use Wikipedia on my laptop and PC, which both have roughly the same size screens. Now, I haven't made any setting changes, and everything is fine on my laptop, but on my PC, out of the blue, Wikipedia is no longer using the full page width. For some things! Talk pages are fine, infoboxes are where they should be, same with end of article templates and category lists. It's just the article text itself (and any images in the article) that isn't using the full screen - its right-hand border is roughly in line with the standard infobox position. I've taken a few screenshots to illustrate the problem.

[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=8130601326961398&set=pb.100000348341067.-2207520000&type=3] (regular article with infobox)

[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=8130601316961399&set=pb.100000348341067.-2207520000&type=3] (categories at end of article)

[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=8130601313628066&set=pb.100000348341067.-2207520000&type=3] (talk page)

[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=8130617253626472&set=pb.100000348341067.-2207520000&type=3] (editing)

Any help would be very much appreciated. [[User:Bertaut|Bertaut]] ([[User talk:Bertaut|talk]]) 00:15, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Bertaut|Bertaut]], this is something that I might expect to happen if you turn on the "Improved appearance for mobile, narrow and wide screens (documentation)" in your gadgets in [[Special:Preferences]]. Can you see that is unchecked?
:Second step, if that is unchecked, please go to a page of interest and add <code>?safemode=1</code> in the URL bar and then hit your version of "go" and see if the issue persists. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::That appears to have fixed it; that option was checked. Can't believe it was that simple!! The fact that I didn't have the problem on the laptop made me think it wasn't a Wiki setting. Really appreciate that. Thanks. [[User:Bertaut|Bertaut]] ([[User talk:Bertaut|talk]]) 00:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

== Date editing tools? ==

I am often editing dates in citations manually, there might be tools to help? Specifically things like converting all {{para|date}} to mdy/dmy, and converting certain parameters to iso. Do tools like this exist? -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 17:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:GreenC|GreenC]] the presence of the {{tl|Use mdy dates}} or {{tl|Use dmy dates}} template on a page will cause all citation templates on that page to automatically display dates in the specified format. There's no reason to edit them in the source. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 17:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::::You know, there are reasons to edit the source, for instance there are editors with disabilities for whom the source code is already pretty unreadable. I recommend that editors continue to fix all instances of YYYY-MM-DD formatting until a system-wide solution can be found. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> [[User:Abductive|<span style="color: teal;">'''Abductive'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Abductive|reasoning]])</span> 04:48, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::I use [[User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates.js]] which works like a charm and updates the date in any such template above. It fixes dates both in text and citations. [[User:Josve05a|Jonatan Svensson Glad]] ([[User talk:Josve05a|talk]]) 22:05, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Excellent, thanks! [[Special:Diff/1234312528/1236323855]] -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 02:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Sill needs to be manually checked some times ;) [[Special:Diff/1236327753]] [[User:Josve05a|Jonatan Svensson Glad]] ([[User talk:Josve05a|talk]]) 03:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

== Request for Lua code review: New language module==
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I'm a first-time technical contributor, so I'm not entirely sure if this is the best place for this request, but I believe kickstarting a conversation here is a good start. I've just created my first module in Lua and would welcome feedback and a review from the more experienced technical members of our community.

The module, '''[[Module:Korean transliteration notice]]''', is designed to support articles about Korea. Unfortunately, there is no universal method for romanizing the Korean language, with the two Korean governments having different standards and Western academia preferring another. 

According to the [[MOS:KO]], there are established conventions for which articles should use which method, but there is currently no categorization, automation, enforcement, or awareness among many editors and a template like this would help greatly and be a good first step.

Don't know Korean? Don't worry. This module is designed to work very similarly to [[Module:English variant notice]], which I used as a foundation for the transliteration module. Here are some key links to the documentation and example template outputs:

* [[Module:Korean transliteration notice]]
* [[Template:Korean transliteration notice/documentation]]
* [[Template:Revised Romanization of Korean]]
* [[Template:McCune-Reischauer romanization of Korean]]
* [[Template:Yale romanization of Korean]]

Since this is my first attempt at this stuff on Wikipedia, I'm bound to have missed something. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on:

* Code structure and organization
* Performance considerations
* Any other best practices I might have missed

Once the module has been reviewed here or on the [[Module talk:Korean transliteration notice|module talk page]], I'll seek further community feedback from the [[MOS:KO]] community.

Thank you in advance for your time and expertise!

Best regards,

-- [[User:Nonabelian|Nonabelian]] ([[User talk:Nonabelian|talk]]) 15:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:No globals.  Add <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline="1">require ('strict')</syntaxhighlight> at the top.  Do you really mean to export all of the functions in the module?  If not, then <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline="1">function p.whatever()</syntaxhighlight> should be changed to <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline="1">local function whatever()</syntaxhighlight> (may require repositioning in the module).
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{tq|Performance considerations}} There are some cases where you should worry about performance (templates widely used like millions of pages, or several hundred uses per page, or the modules are huge), but otherwise, [[WP:DWAP|don't worry about it]]. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 18:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Trappist the monk}} Great advice. Done. (I think!) {{ping|Izno}} Phew! Thank you! --[[User:Nonabelian|Nonabelian]] ([[User talk:Nonabelian|talk]]) 19:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

== Automated redundancy check on redirects ==

Hello - I was using {[[template:R adr|avoided double redirect]]} incorrectly and creating redirect categorization redundancy on edits on my account from before July 19, 2024. I would like to request anyone with experience with automation to run a (hopefully already existing) script to prune redirects created by my account - that is, removing redundant categorization from redirects using {avoided double redirect}. Alternatively, any helpful pointers to completing this task on my own would be appreciated (should I try AWB?). [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 22:04, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

== For dark mode: How should a template change the "background-color" property? ==

We have a dark mode now, but I'm confused about how templates should handle background colors. An editor raised a specific issue at [[Template_talk:Bar_chart#Dark_mode_error]], and I asked that individual, but maybe other people will have this same confusion. 

The issue is that many templates use a pale (but not white) background to set boxes aside from the main content. These templates typically leave the "color" property of text alone. The default color is black but becomes white in dark mode. The resulting pale text on a pale background is unreadable. For example, activate dark mode and check out [[Prince Albert, Saskatchewan#Demographics]]. The glowing template there is {{tl|Canada census}}. It uses the background colors <span style="background-color:#f8f9fa;">#f8f9fa</span> and <span style="background-color:lavender;">lavender</span> and does not change the "color" property of the text.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canada_census/styles.css] This seems to be a bug in dark mode, but I see many similar templates listed at this bug-tracking page as if they are template bugs: [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Accessibility_for_reading/Reporting/en.wikipedia.org#%F0%9F%90%9B_Bar_chart_dark_mode_error] 

The recommendations from the WMF seem to suggest defining a light and dark background color on each template?[https://m.mediawiki.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Recommendations_for_night_mode_compatibility_on_Wikimedia_wikis&diffonly=true] If that's the answer, then that's the answer, but seems like a massive amount of work when templates exist for years without being fixed for mobile, screen readers, narrow screens, the new desktop theme, and so on. 

Also, what does this mean for templates that allow a user to set the background? On {{tl|bar chart}} this would make the text unreadable on at least one of the two modes, and so user-determined colors would need to be disabled.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bar_chart/testcases#Individual_bar_color_(future_feature)] I looked up a version of [[Elie Wiesel]] that I know has the background-color set at the page level for its {{tl|quote box}}es.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Elie_Wiesel&oldid=728878401] I see "html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .quotebox:not(.notheme)" disabling both "background" and "color" properties at the site's theme level. This appears to have been done for many widely used templates (infoboxes and nav boxes), but what is expected for other templates? 

I imagine the background colors cannot just be turned off because templates like {{tl|legend}} use them for meaning. But is there no way for the site to automatically figure that black text with a custom background color should not become white? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 05:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

:The fact that stuff wasn't fixed for years isn't a reason to continue doing so. A lot of user selected colors don't pass [[WP:COLOR]]'s AA minimal requirement. [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 07:13, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

:The advice is here: [[mediawikiwiki:Recommendations for night mode compatibility on Wikimedia wikis|Recommendations for night mode compatibility on Wikimedia wikis]].
:* Whenever you set background-color, set a color.
:* You can use CSS variables and design tokens, which will flip their color depending on the mode used.
:* If you need other colours that have to flip/adapt, use the scoped classes for dark mode and automatic dark mode in a TemplateStyles stylesheets.
:Yes this is a massive amount of work. This was always going to be the consequence of people wanting dark mode. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::Personal opinion is that setting color is generally unnecessary in 'structural' templates like infoboxes. Simply getting a template to output a background compatible with the theme is usually enough. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:WMF has a tool that lists contrast issues of the top 100 visited pages at https://night-mode-checker.wmcloud.org/en-mobile/night.html, that should probably be a priority.
:Finding the rest of the issues is a matter of finding contrast issues. Do not try to assign a text color to every background-color, it is a waste of time with no real benefit. Only assign a text color if the contrast is insufficient according to WCAG AA. 
:You want to take the hex color values of #101418 which is dark mode background and #6D8AF2 which is the link color. Hex values close to those have insufficient contrast. I recommend finding the first available contrast friendly color and search for everything that has less contrast (you can use https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/ to find this color). The search can be done with an regex. Additionally "background:transparent" is also an issue, and should probably be removed on sight.
:WCAG AA has an different contrast requirement for graphs than for text, so that applies to template:bar chart. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 13:28, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::Also note that [[Module:Color contrast]], as well as various templates built off of it, exist for enforcing WCAG compliance even with user-specified colors. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 13:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:I think most of your questions are answered above. TheDJ links to the page most of interest to the question. Some specifics:
:There is a design token <code>background-color-neutral-subtle</code> which in light mode is a near-white grey. I have been normalizing templates to that color as the base when I encounter a near-white. In the case of the census template, it is the exact same color in light mode as you have pointed out. (It's probable that I'm the one to blame: I would have added that color to the template when I was removing the use of infobox class from non-infoboxes.)
:For the specific case of templates that allow the user to change the color:
:# Remove allowing the user to change the color. This may or may not be feasible either technically (because it does not fit the semantics of the template) or because you're afraid of screeching from users who have always done it that way and have not had a care in the world about how unable it makes us to provide a dark mode. Either way, if you think you can get away on the second axis, strongly go for the first.
:# Do a hard override in TemplateStyles (e.g. [[Template:Color/styles.css]], because that template matches the first case above) or at a global level (we have some generic CSS in [[MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css]] that hits a bunch of cases).
:{{tq|seems like a massive amount of work when templates exist for years without being fixed for mobile, screen readers, narrow screens, the new desktop theme, and so on.}} Welcome to Wikipedia. Identify priorities and backlogs (for example, [[MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do]]), advertise that you're working on it ( ;) ), fix things that affect you personally when you find them, and ultimately, do what you can. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks all! Izno and TheDJ's post covered everything. Appreciate the explanations. I was hoping there would be a simple solution, but can accept there is not, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii#top|talk]]) 22:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

==Bot activity problem==
{{u|DannyS712 bot}}, a bot which is supposed to look after various daily or weekly maintenance tasks, hasn't made any edits since July 1, including failing to update [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Polluted categories (2)]] in eleven days despite that being a thing that's supposed to happen weekly, but the bot's maintainer says on their own userpage that they're not around much lately, and they haven't made any Wikipedia edits at all since July 3, so there's no way to know when they'll be back in order to look into it if I approach them personally (especially in ''July'', when any editor could very well be on vacation for a couple of weeks). So could somebody take a quick gander into whether there's a problem with the bot, and maybe jumpstart it again if there is? Thanks. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 15:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] is pretty active in other areas of the wikiverse and I suspect they will see this ping. It certainly doesn't hurt to try. [https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/dannys712-bot https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/dannys712-bot] states they are the only maintainer, so there's nothing anyone can do to help (unless they are a Toolforge admin). <span style="font-family:sans-serif">&mdash; <span style="font-weight:bold">[[User:MusikAnimal|<span style="color:black; font-style:italic">MusikAnimal</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MusikAnimal|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]]</sup></span></span> 19:48, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
:It's a straightforward query without any postprocessing, so if DannyS712 doesn't respond or can't easily fix whatever's gone wrong, the report [[quarry:query/84806|can be run at will on Quarry]] and it'd be trivial to migrate the [[WP:DBR]] subpage to {{tl|Database report}}. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 20:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
::I saw the ping, and have been meaning to get to this, but am aware of the issue - hopefully I'll have time this weekend, and sorry for the delays --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 21:07, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure if DannyS712 got to it this weekend and the bot just hasn't run yet, but if he didn't get to it, feel free to copy over [[Special:Permalink/1234613225|my sandbox]] which has {{t|Database report}} set up correctly. (cc @[[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]]) --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 07:18, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

:DannyS712 has written a ton of great code done so much to help enwiki. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 15:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Nobody said otherwise. The problem is with a ''bot'' not functioning properly for purely technical reasons, and absolutely nobody accused Danny of anything improper. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 14:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I guess I just got the weekend wrong, I was out of town for a while - I definitely should have time this week, maybe even tomorrow [[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 02:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::No worries. I was able to use the substitute on-the-fly report provided above to work around the bot issue, so the delay hasn't been a major crisis. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 14:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Bot has been restarted --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 00:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

==More MediaWiki problems?==
I'm having problems deleting pages, I get the following message when I try to delete the old-fashioned way:

:Error
:Our servers are currently under maintenance or experiencing a technical problem.

And when using Twinkle:
:Deleting page: Failed to delete the page: error "error" occurred while contacting the API.

Is this more Thursday problems? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 23:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:Problem has improved a bit but I'll leave this post up. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 23:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::Things are back to normal. I guess it was a glitch with the servers again. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

== TemplateStyles CSS help: <code>tbody tr:first-child {&lt;css attributes>}</code> ==
{{courtesy link|Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources#Can I copy from open license or public domain sources?}}{{br}}
{{courtesy link|Draft:License compatibility}}

If that subject line does not look cryptic to you, I would love to have your advice. I am trying to spin off the table about License compatibility that you can view [[Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources#Can I copy from open license or public domain sources?|here]], into a template so I can use it in multiple articles, and add user-configurable style, and I am running into problems using CSS to reproduce the blue background in the first row. Currently, the template is at [[Draft:License compatibility]]. I am busy on two tracks: adding parameters for user stylability, and moving the original style to [[Draft:License compatibility/styles.css]] as default style. In trying to reproduce the original table style with the blue background and  bolded white font in the top row as seen [[Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources#Can I copy from open license or public domain sources?|here]], I tried the following at [[Draft:License compatibility/styles.css]]:
:<syntaxhighlight lang=css>
.lic-comp tbody tr:first-child {
	background-color:blue;
	color:white;
}
</syntaxhighlight> 
but it doesn't seem to be working properly; instead of rendering the top row with blue background,  it is rendering the *second row* with blue background, and I don't understand why. Thanks for any tips you can offer. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 09:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

:All rows in a wikitext-generated table are in {{tag|tbody|o}}, not {{tag|thead|o}}, even if the first one(s) include only {{tag|th|o}}s. If the table is sortable, jquery.tablesorter puts the first row in {{tag|thead|o}} for JavaScript-enabled users. You should probably add a class to the row itself rather than rely on a pseudo-class. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 09:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:: Thank you very much from this response. The table is non-sortable. When I look at the generated Html, I see this:
{{cot|bg=darkseagreen|Html for table}}
::<syntaxhighlight lang=html><table class="wikitable lic-comp">
<tbody><tr>
<th colspan="2">License Compatibility with Wikipedia<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1">&#91;1&#93;</a></sup>
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td><span class="heading">Licenses compatible with Wikipedia</span>
</td>
<td><span class="heading">Licenses <i>not</i> compatible with Wikipedia</span>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" colspan="2"><span class="lic-comp-label">Creative Commons licenses</span>
</th></tr>
<tr style="vertical-align: top;">
<td>
<ul><li>CC BY, all versions and ports, up to and including 4.0</li>
<li>CC BY-SA 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 4.0</li>
<li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/">CC0</a></li></ul>
</td>
<td>
<ul><li>CC BY-NC</li>
<li>CC BY-NC-ND</li>
<li>CC BY-ND</li>
<li>CC BY-NC-SA</li></ul>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<th colspan="2"><span class="lic-comp-label">Other licenses</span>
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td>
<ul><li>GFDL <b>and</b> CC BY or CC BY-SA</li></ul>
</td>
<td>
<ul><li>any GNU-only license (including GFDL)</li></ul>
</td></tr></tbody></table></syntaxhighlight>
{{cob}}
:: so it seems like the first tr child should be the top row, not the second one. Are you saying that jquery alters the Html after the capture posted here from right-click, view page source? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 09:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::If it's sortable, yes. I know it doesn't pertain to this table since it's not a data table and so is unlikely to be made sortable, but it's good practice to not rely on :first-child or :nth-child to select header rows because jquery.tablesorter modifies them for a subset of users. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 10:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::: Thanks. I'll try a different approach, although I'm not sure how to address a row in a wikitable, unless I convert it to an Html table first, and then I have the row and cell tags available which I can address. Maybe that's where this should go, at this point, unless there is an alternative. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::You can just write <code>{{!}}- class="..."</code>. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 10:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: Oh, really? Cool! I don't know how I missed that. I checked [[Help:Table]] and [[Help:Table/advanced]] and didn't see that. That should provide a solution to this; thanks a lot! {{ec}} [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{replyto|Mathglot}} Many (specifically, <code>class= dir= id= lang= style= title=</code>) attributes that are valid on [//www.w3.org/TR/2021/SPSD-html52-20210128/tabular-data.html#the-tr-element a {{tag|tr|o}} element] are also permitted on <code>|-</code>, which is the direct equivalent in Wikitext. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Just to say: I find the color unnecessary, distracting and hurting accessibility. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  10:12, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: {{u|Sjoerddebruin}}, you may be right, but as I am spinning off content written by another editor into a Template, I feel like the first effort should exactly reproduce their original design, so I can introduce the template into the article where they originally added the wikitext, without any changes to the rendered page. The parameters being added to the template will provide configurability to other users, to alter it as they see fit. Thanks for your comment. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:19, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I doubt a template like this needs much customization options, what would the use cases be? [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  10:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:I don't see any blue background or white text. Have you enabled "Make headers of tables display as long as the table is in view" at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]? That also messes with unsortable tables. I get blue background and white text in the top row with this which adds <code>th</code>to your code:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
.lic-comp tbody tr:first-child th {
	background-color:blue;
	color:white;
}
</syntaxhighlight>
:[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:32, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{small|Oh, I must have misunderstood something then. I thought Mathglot was trying to turn "Licenses compatible with Wikipedia" and "Licenses not compatible with Wikipedia" blue. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 10:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)}}
::: They are blue now, that is the problem. For starters, I am trying to echo the original, which is [[Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources#Can I copy from open license or public domain sources?|here]], using templatestyles instead of inline style. So far, I haven't managed to do it. That would be the baseline, from which user configurability could begin. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::: At this point, I'm going to take a break, but I should add if anyone wants to play with the template, this is a wiki, so by all means, please try stuff out in the template, or the styles.css, if you have an idea how to progress with this. Thanks, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I just made the draft table much simpler (and I believe more accessible), feel free to revert if it's too drastic a change. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 11:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Oh, in that case it's because the default background applies to {{tag|th|o}}, not {{tag|tr|o}}, so it takes precedence over your custom style in TemplateStyles. <code>.lic-comp tr:first-child > th</code> is one way to do it. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 10:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Mathglot}} You didn't answer whether you have enabled "Make headers of tables display as long as the table is in view". If I enable it then I get the result you describe with blue in the second row. Without it, my code works for me, but it would be better to not rely on which table-altering features are used. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: {{re|PrimeHunter}}, Oh, thanks for thinking of that—yes, I do have header view enabled, so is that interfering somehow? I did check the page Html and didn't see anything suspicious, does the header gadget maybe change the th to something else after the page Html snapshot is taken for developer tools? In any case, what if I assign the row an id attribute, maybe I could use that to address the row uniquely regardless whether it was th or something else. Is that even possible in a wikitable, I'm not sure I've ever tried to assign a row an id attribute, and I don't see anything at [[Help:Table]] about it. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 07:45, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Mathglot}} Page Source in Firefox shows the original html but when I right-click the heading and use Inspect Element, the gadget has changed <code><nowiki><tbody></nowiki></code> in the first row to <code><nowiki><thead class="mw-sticky-header-element"></nowiki></code>. tbody is still in the second row so your CSS matches there instead. id's can be applied to rows like <code>|- id="header"</code> which can be targeted with <code>#header th {...}</code>. I often use row id's to link to a row. See [[Help:Tables and locations#Section link or map link to a row anchor]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:38, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::: {{re|PrimeHunter}}, very cool; this is just the information I needed, on both counts. They ought to give out Affinity Cards or something, and questioners get to award points to responders, and after you win 10,000 points or something, they fly you out to the next Wikimania or something. I'll skip the virtual cookies and fruit, but really, big thank you; also to Nardog and others who took the time to respond. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 05:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::You can use "Inspect" rather than "View Page Source" to see the current version of the DOM tree. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 08:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::: Thank you. That will help now, and in the future.  I'm always learning. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 08:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

== Level 4 vital articles ==

On this page, [[Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4]], when I click the edit link on a particular section, any section, it brings me to the section before the one I clicked. I recently transcluded the sections so I'm not sure if this is part of the problem and it is buggy right now since this is new, but I am working on it to try to bring it so it can be stable and free from bugs. [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 22:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:I was able to replicate the problem. I did a null edit and the problem went away. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] The problem isn't with the subpages, it's with the main page of level 4 that I'm trying to figure out. I saw that you replicated the problem, but I am unaware of a null edit that caused the problem to go away. [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 22:17, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I didn't say anything about subpages, and you could not have seen either my replication of the problem or a null edit. In any event, the page is currently in {{cl|Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded}}, which will cause all sorts of problems. The page size needs to be reduced before it will behave predictably. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:31, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] I would recommend undoing your transclusion of those sections, as it causes the page to be huge, take forever to load, and, most importantly, exceed the [[WP:PEIS]] limit so that the entire thing doesn't display properly. It also may have broken {{u|Cewbot}}, as seen at [[Special:Diff/1236359522|this edit]] right after your transclusion. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 13:58, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]]: I have reverted my edits per your suggestions above. [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 09:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

== Background color in edit textarea for dark mode ==

When I edit admin-protected pages like [[Template:Disambig editnotice]], I get nearly-white text on a very light pink background, and it's nearly invisible. Does anyone know where this color is set? Is that part of the skin CSS? 

BTW, I added class=skin-invert to that template, but the results are pretty ugly in dark mode. It (and many other templates) could probably use upgrading to CSS variables with the palette from [https://doc.wikimedia.org/codex/latest/design-tokens/color.html], though it's very difficult for me to edit it safely at the moment. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 03:46, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

:I've thrown Something at the problem now that I've been reminded about at least 5% of why I asked for int admin back. We're going to need to refine colors, these don't necessarily mesh well with syntaxhighlighting, which is still a known problem child. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:07, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::(Alternatively, we can ditch the pink for editing protected things and just use the base colors, but IDK how that will go down with Everyone.) [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:::The pink reminds me that I'm editing a protected page, and that I need to exercise extra caution. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::::This discussion prompted me to post a bug report: {{Section link|MediaWiki talk:Common.css|Pink background-color for protected pages doesn't work without CodeMirror}}. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 12:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::FTR, andrybak's problem turned out to be a conflict with a gadget; see [[mw:User talk:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter.js#Inline styles interfere with enwiki's CSS]]. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 18:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::I know what the purposes of the background is, I am just about convinced however that it isn't valuable to load for every user in the groups of interest. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 16:34, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'm now getting white text on a dark red background in dark mode, which makes things a lot easier to edit in dark mode. Many thanks! I'm still curious where this fix was implemented, in case I run into similar problems elsewhere? -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 19:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::[[MediaWiki:Group-sysop.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Group-templateeditor.css]]. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 19:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Aha, thanks for the pointers! -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 19:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:As for the BTW, this template strongly needs to reconsider whether it should have the (coffee) color it does. It is intended as a system message (edit intro) and should be colored as expected for that series of templates. It looks like it was added based on "[[Template_talk:Disambig_editnotice#Requesting_edits|it would be more noticeable]]", which I think is a miss since most other edit notices are no more noticeable. But particularly to using a Codex color, there are no coffee colors in that palette. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
::I've changed it to "background-color-warning-subtle" from the official palette, which is more or less the same hue. It still ends up as an ugly brown in dark mode, even without "class=skin-invert". Presumably there needs to be an official thinking up of a good subtle warning color for dark mode?
::Whether this should be notionally colorized as a warning or as info I'm agnostic about. Looking through the templates in [[:Category:Editnotice templates]], the aesthetics are really all over the place. Some templates get attention by having a yellow icon, red icon, yellow border (which is nice even in dark mode), red words as internal headers, yellow background, or pink background. Some have no attention-getting colors at all. Should we start a discussion somewhere about making the visual conventions more uniform? If these are all going to need to be converted to use the new official palette, they'd need to be adjusted anyway. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 19:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I wouldn't be surprised by an ugly brown being the flip for yellow. Using the skin-invert class should be used only for non-flipping colors, and this isn't one of those.
:::We don't need to convert to Codex per se, we just need to be sensitive to what colors we have and are providing in multiple color themes now. Having a standardized color scheme (which we in fact already have for the message box series, though as you point out it is often customized) is one way to be successful at that objective by default. Adding the customizations that we do is the issue, and could be solved either by removal of those colors, making some other standard templates/templatestyles, or using upstream variables from Codex or even Common.css. A discussion about the customizations is probably warranted somewhere, but I don't know how many people are interested in that kind of topic - often there is resistance along the lines of "it looks like how I wanted" (which would echo refrains from when the message boxes were standardized nearly 20 years ago). [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 19:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
i [[TL;DR|read about half this thread]] and understood less than that, but one thing i think i understand was what Redrose64 said: ''The pink reminds me that I'm editing a protected page, and that I need to exercise extra caution.'' What if the pink were added as a ''border around'' the browser window or editing area instead of a ''background'' that potentially camouflages the text? Would that be an equally effective reminder? and maybe do similarly for other "alerts"? i don't know how many such color-coded alerts exist; i'm an anonymous IP rather than a registered user or admin, so i guess i don't see some of these things. But maybe instead of having light-mode-black-on-white-(and-sometimes-black-on-pink) change to dark-mode-white-on-black-(and-sometimes-white-on-dark-red-or-yellow-on-ugly-brown), maybe instead light mode and dark mode could just toggle black-on-white to white-on-black with both sharing the [[Scrabble|"double word score"]] pink border (or maybe a border of pink-and-red [[:File:Examples of UK style barricade tape.svg|stripes like these]], or [[Battenburg markings]]) for Alert Type X, and for Alert Type Y light and dark mode can share a [[Scrabble|"triple letter score"]] shade(s)-of-blue border, and so on like that?

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 10:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

:I like the idea of moving the warning color out of the background and into a border or eye-injuring stripes above or below the edit box. That prevents any conflict with syntax highlighting, the authors of which probably aren't expecting a background color that only admins see. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 16:19, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

== Template:Tennis record expansion ==

I wasn't sure if the requested template page was monitored very often... it looks sort of dead. So just bringing it to my betters attention here. 
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_templates#Template:Tennis_record_expansion
The current and prior templates need to be merged into a catchall so we can have a percentage if we want but also have no percentage for many articles. I could simply make two separate templates and rename them so we could use either, if that's preferred at wikipedia. or we add an attribute to the current template that adds the (72.6%) after the win loss. We use the template because so many editors forget to use an ndash instead of a hyphen. If it's better or easier to have two templates just let me know. Thanks. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:25, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

== [[Srikanth Odela]] ==

Hi, I noticed that [[Srikanth Odela]] isn’t appearing in Google search results for his Wikipedia page. can anyone please help me understand why? [[User:BubbleWombleBee12|BubbleWombleBee12]] ([[User talk:BubbleWombleBee12|talk]]) 11:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:BubbleWombleBee12|BubbleWombleBee12]], it probably hasn't been indexed yet, because it hasn't been petrolled by [[WP:NPP|New page Patrol]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722079023624:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 11:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::{{replyto|BubbleWombleBee12|Qwerfjkl}} There is information at [[Wikipedia:Controlling search engine indexing]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 11:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

== NPOV Noticeboard archive - redirected? ==

For some reason when you click on the archive links at [[WP:NPOVN]] you end up being redirected to the [[WP:RSN]] archives. Could someone fix this. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 11:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:Exploring this further... the "search the archives" function at NPOVN seems to be working fine.  The problem seems to be that the "list of archives" for NPOVN appears to have been replaced with the "list of archives" for RSN. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 12:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Header]] had the wrong archive root. Fixed by [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard/Header&diff=prev&oldid=1236966981]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, it goes back seven months to {{diff|Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Header|prev|1190717933|this edit}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you for the fix. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 13:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

== Big shout out ==

[[File:GreatCoxwell Barn SW.jpg|thumb|Great Coxwell Barn]]
Hi all at the Pump, it's easy to feel disconnected despite the fantastic and often thankless efforts you make to keep WP going behind the scenes. I don't do barnstars, but here's a pic of a huge medieval barn instead. Well done, and thank you again for all your tireless and often unacknowledged hard work. [[User:MinorProphet|MinorProphet]] ([[User talk:MinorProphet|talk]])<!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 13:24, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</small>

== Removing the need for round robin moves ==

I am not sure if this is the right forum. Feel free to move it to a proper one, such as [[WP:Village pump (idea lab)]]. 

When page A needs to be renamed to B, but B redirects to A, what commonly happens is that B gets moved to C without leaving a redirect (so that page B is free), meaning A can then be renamed to B, and C can be renamed to B, also without leaving a redirect. This is called a [[WP:ROUNDROBIN|round robin]] move. Alternatively, the redirect B can simply be deleted. Since this is commonly done, is it feasibility and technically possible to do the two moves at the same time (eg, A to B and B to A at the same time), removing the need for a third one? [[User:JuniperChill|JuniperChill]] ([[User talk:JuniperChill|talk]]) 19:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[phab:T303120]] is a declined feature request "Swapping pages". [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:04, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

==dark mode on Wikipedia==

i'm repeating myself, but: [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_214#Dark_mode_for_logged-in_users_on_desktop_coming_this_week!|Do we have (or should we have) a central thread where all of the discussions about the launch of dark mode should be in one place?]]

Maybe something like [[Wikipedia:Centralized discussion]]?

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 07:46, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

See also
*[[#Background color in edit textarea for dark mode]]
*[[#Dark Mode Text]]
*[[#Screen blacking-out on mobile app]]
*[[#For dark mode: How should a template change the "background-color" property?]]

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 09:13, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

===dark text on a light background in dark mode===
''Parts'' of these pages have dark text on a light background in dark mode:
*color-coded tables on ''[[list of minor planets: 7001–8000]]''
**color-coded tables on ''[[list of minor planets]]''
***That page also [[:File:List_of_minor_planets_(preview,_cut-out).png|has]] [[:File:Minor_planet_count.svg|some]] [[:File:Euler-Diagram_bodies_in_the_Solar_System.jpg|charts]] that are mostly white. Of course image files don't change color (well, [[GIF]] files might, but i don't think they're the solution here), but it's something else to consider.
*In [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_42]],
:this part
 Village pump (Policy - Technical - Proposals (persistent) - Idea lab - WMF - Miscellaneous)
:and this part
 '''Village pump (technical) archive'''<br>This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (technical). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.<br>< Older discussions · Archives: A, B, C, ... 212, 213, 214
:appear as dark text (including blue links that turn purple after clicking them) on a light background. The list of archives includes 42 as hard-to-see [[#light text on a light background in dark mode]].
*The [[GIF]] article has an infobox that says (more or less)
 Filename extension: .gif<br>Internet media type: image/gif<br>Type code: GIFf<br>Uniform Type Identifier (UTI): com.compuserve.gif<br>Magic number: GIF87a/GIF89a
:but ".gif", "image/gif", and "GIFf" appear as dark text on a light background. "GIF87a" and "GIF89a" seem to switch with light mode/dark mode, maybe by using <code><nowiki><code>THIS</code></nowiki></code> instead of {{code|<nowiki>{{code|THAT}}</nowiki>}}?

Thanks and good luck, you Wikipedia [[It's All About the Pentiums|hackers, code crackers, slackers, wasting time with all the]] talk page blackeners.

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 07:46, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:"Parts of these pages have dark text on a light background" yes this is expected. There is 25 years of legacy and fixing all these templates to have both a light AND a dark mode will take multiple years and require new decisions to be made. The highest priority however right now is to ensure we do not have dark on dark or light on light, as that effects readability. The 'is it pretty' issues will be dealt with in good time. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::Agreed: This is not a top priority. However, as someone unfamiliar with coding, i don't always know if a problem ''here'' is related to a problem ''there'', so sometimes i ask others i think might know (or might know how to find out). Also, even if the issues are unrelated, a small issue might still deserve to be on the to do list (even if way, way down on the to do list), so i hope mentioning it is useful. --[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 19:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]], well, in this case it's a combination of the SyntaxHighlight extension not supporting dark mode, which we can't do much about, and {{t|code}} using the syntaxhighlight tag, when it could use the code tag if no langauge is specified.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722110217932:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</span>

===light text on a light background in dark mode===
As mentioned above:
*In [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_42]], the 42 is hard-to-see light text on a light background.

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 07:46, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

===dark mode on laptop===
<small>i've done a bit of Wikipedia browsing and editing on my smartphone, mostly in dark mode since i learned it was an option (Wednesday July 10?).</small>

<small>On my laptop, wikipedia.org addresses redirect by default to en.wikipedia.org and light mode, but i have sometimes edited the web address to en.m.wikipedia.org to get the mobile dark mode on my laptop.</small>

Today (Saturday July 27) on my laptop, en.wikipedia.org (i think it was en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox if that matters) gave me a pop-up alert saying something along the lines of "dark mode is available in the Appearance link of the menu on the right side of the screen" but i can't find ''Appearance'' listed in any of the five menus i've found:
*The upper right of the screen has three dots resembling an [[ellipsis]]... that gives me this drop down menu:
::Pages for logged out editors (learn more)
::Contributions
::Talk
*below that is the drop down menu for ''languages'' (obviously ''Appearance'' doesn't belong there)
*below that is a ''Tools'' drop down menu (i can list its options if that would help, but ''Appearance'' isn't one of them, even when i scroll down as far as it goes, so...)
*The upper left has what looks like a [[triple bar]] or [[三]] that reveals a drop down Main menu (again, i can list the options, but Appearance isn't there, even scrolling to the bottom)
*below that is the drop down table of Contents, resembling a vertical ellipsis next to a triple bar, somewhat like [[ellipsis#More|⋮]][[Ξ]] (again, ''Appearance'' doesn't belong there, although as a pictograph it looks like it could be a settings menu)

''Appearance'' is also not visibly part of the footer "menu":
:Privacy policy
:About Wikipedia
:Disclaimers
:Contact Wikipedia
:Code of Conduct
:Developers
:Statistics
:Cookie statement
:Mobile view

i also checked Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] with similar results (no ''Appearance'' nor [[table of Contents|⋮三]]).

i exited the pop-up in search of the ''Appearance'' link and have not been able to get the pop-up again (which is normally a good thing, but right now means i can't double check anything about it, like, "did it say ''Appearance'' or ''appearance'''s'''''?")

If anyone knows what's going on here, please don't leave me in the dark. i mean, let me in on the dark. You know what i mean. ;-)

--[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 19:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:Are you looking for the little set of eyeglasses next to the "Create account" link? – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 21:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

== Adding documentation subpage to module doc pages ==

Currently, {{tl|Documentation subpage}} is added to module doc pages with [[MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-header]]. The problem with this approach is that the system message does not add [[:Category:Module documentation pages]]. If we want to add it, we have to either transclude {{tl|Documentation subpage}} ourselves, which makes it appear twice, or add the category directly, which makes it much harder to update in case the category is moved in the future.{{pb}}I have gone with the second approach for now by editing [[Template:Documentation/preload-module-doc]] to add the category, but I don't think that it's a good idea. What we should do instead is blank [[MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-header]] and transclude {{tl|Documentation subpage}} manually to all the module doc pages, as was suggested in {{slink|MediaWiki talk:Scribunto-doc-page-header|Category:Module documentation pages}}. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 16:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

:Note: I originally intended to ask the devs to make the system message add the category but this has been proposed in the past in [[phab:T289404]] and was declined. This is why I think adding the template manually is the best approach. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 16:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
: {{ec}} This is yet another proposal to make a huge number of edits to accomplish something of very questionable value. Not worth it IMO. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 16:04, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::The code for {{tl|Documentation subpage}} has a test that looks like it tries to assign a category: <code><nowiki>... [[Category:{{#switch:{{SUBJECTSPACE}} |Template=Template |Module=Module |User=User |#default=Wikipedia}} documentation pages]] ...</nowiki></code>. My naive question is: why isn't that code working? Does an if statement need to be redesigned? Can something else be tweaked inside that template? I'm not clear on how the page-header page "adds" the doc subpage to the template without actually transcluding it; maybe the category could be "added" in the same way that the doc subpage template is "added". – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 16:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]]: The template works fine. The problem is that {{tq|q=y|system messages do not add categories}} (see [[phab:T289404]]). If the template is included directly to a page, like in [[Module:Citation/CS1/doc]], the categorisation works as intended. That's what I want to do, but if [[MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-header]] isn't blanked first, people will see the message appear twice, assume it's a mistake and remove the template. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 16:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::: I'm more inclined to just delete [[:Category:Module documentation pages]]. Unlike its twin [[:Category:Template documentation pages]] which isn't very useful as a category but requires no effort to populate, this requires a lot of effort and the value over [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=contentmodel%3Awikitext&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns828=1 CirrusSearch] isn't large enough to justify it. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 16:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::And I fixed a lot of them with a [[Special:PermanentLink/1236610752|single edit]]. It really won't take as much effort as you think. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 16:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: {{ping|Nickps}} Could you please stop making these edits until there's consensus that they should be done? You're creating a dangerous [[WP:Fait accompli|''fait accompli'']]. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I will stop. But you're not explaining what's so dangerous about them. They can be reverted as easily as I am doing them. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 17:07, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::10 minutes of edits done manually can be reverted in less than half that by someone with AWB. I'm not creating a fait accompli and I'd like you to take that back. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 17:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::: You've been doing this for over an hour, not 10 minutes. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:13, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Fair, I lost track of time, I guess. Still, really easy to revert. [[User:Nickps|Nickps]] ([[User talk:Nickps|talk]]) 17:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::: {{ec}} What's dangerous is explained in the essay I linked - it inappropriately biases the situation toward the automatic documentation being removed later because the edits required to do it are already in place. The cost of this is that every time a module is created {{Tl|documentation subpage}} has to be manually added to the subpage forevermore, and I'm not seeing what the point of [[:Category:Module documentation pages]] even is when the search I linked above can produce the same output in the unlikely event anyone cares. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::: I've just nominated [[:Category:Module documentation pages]] for deletion. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{tq|What we should do instead is blank [[MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-header]] and transclude {{tl|Documentation subpage}} manually to all the module doc pages}} – this sounds as a good workaround for [[phab:T289404]] to me. It will a) make [[:Category:Module documentation pages]] useful on watchlists and b) make /doc pages consistent, because right now [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%2Fdoc+hastemplate%3A%22Documentation+subpage%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22hastemplate%22%3A%5B%22Documentation+subpage%22%5D%2C%22intitle%22%3A%22%2Fdoc%22%7D%7D&ns828=1 some /doc subpages] of modules end up with two banners.
:As I mentioned [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 25#Category:Module documentation pages|at the category deletion discussion]], using the [[Template:Documentation/preload-module-doc|preload template]] won't require a lot of effort to populate [[:Category:Module documentation pages]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 22:47, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

== Table covers appearance settings ==

On [[List of Anaheim Ducks seasons]], when you view the page logged out and scroll down far enough, the year by year table partially covers up the appearance settings (in Google Chrome, Windows 11, for what it's worth). I'm guessing this probably isn't intended; is there a means of nudging the settings over so they are fully visible for users? [[User:Home Lander|Home Lander]] ([[User talk:Home Lander|talk]]) 17:06, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:This is a known issue that WMF developers have been poking at ever since they rolled out Vector 2022 as the default skin. The main task is {{phab|T361737}}. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 19:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::Per [[mw:Recommendations for mobile friendly articles on Wikimedia wikis]] you can mark large tables up so that they scroll (I did that for this article). This issue has been around for over a decade now for mobile users. Vector 2022 just brought the issue to a larger audience.
::The referenced issue (if solved) will likely be resolved by marking up tables like this automatically but I don't think there is a silver bullet for fixing every table (this solution is incompatible with sticky headers for example). <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 02:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

== Dark Mode doing strange things to Page History on pages where Pending Changes is active ==
{{tracked|T369391}}
See https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation/Redirects&action=history

This page has [[WP:Pending changes]] activated. The edit history listing now looks odd when Dark mode is activated. On edits that have been accepted, that line has a white background instead of black/dark and the text is light-colored, making it more hard to read. Instead, this should be a dark grey background, lighter than the standard background, so as to fit with the dark scheme, and make the text readable.

-- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.247.96|65.92.247.96]] ([[User talk:65.92.247.96|talk]]) 07:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

==Discussion at [[:Template talk:Hidden archive top#Heading text colour unreadable in dark mode|Template talk:Hidden archive top §&nbsp;Heading text colour unreadable in dark mode]]==
[[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Template talk:Hidden archive top#Heading text colour unreadable in dark mode|Template talk:Hidden archive top §&nbsp;Heading text colour unreadable in dark mode]].  [[User talk:Rummskartoffel|<span style="font-weight:normal;background:linear-gradient(90deg,#e40303,#ff8c00,#ffed00,#008026,#004dff,#750787);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text;">Rummskartoffel</span>]] 10:53, 28 July 2024 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->

== Sections not collapsing on mobile ==

At [[Great Britain at the Olympics]] the sections are not collapsible as expected on the mobile interface. In my sandbox I tried removing sections until it worked again, then reinstating that section and removing everything else, only to find that it worked again. I also tried fixing the markup errors (specifically, invalid HTML attributes) but that didn't fix it either. So I can only assume the cause is the "Medals by sport" section just being excessively large. Is this a known limitation of the collapsing mechanism? Should that section be split up so the collapsing works? [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:There's too many images on the page so the page cannot be mobile formatted (see [[mw:Recommendations_for_mobile_friendly_articles_on_Wikimedia_wikis]] ) <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 18:14, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

== Query on template/category identification ==

So every once and a while I come across a composer with 3–4 works on Wikipedia, but no navigational template, so I go ahead and make one. Is there any way to generate a list of composers who are missing one still? Not sure if this is a bot-request matter, AWB request or something else entirely. (see [[:Category:Compositions by composer|parent cat]])

So essentially, I'd be looking for categories like <nowiki>[[Category:Compositions by Example Person]]</nowiki> which have more than 2 pages, but there is no corresponding {{tl|Example Person}} that exists. '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 21:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:[[WP:RAQ]] would solve it I think. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::Awesome, thank you! '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 22:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

== [[List of cities proper by population density]] ==

The list starts at #2, instead of #1. Can someone make the necessary fix? [[User:Home Lander|Home Lander]] ([[User talk:Home Lander|talk]]) 23:41, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:It looks right to me, with no edits since the 22nd? —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 00:02, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{done}} It wasn't. Just fixed it. [[User:Shawnqual|<span style="color:#FF91AF">'''''•Shawnqual•'''''&nbsp;📚</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shawnqual|💭]] 00:21, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks, would have never gotten that by myself. [[User:Home Lander|Home Lander]] ([[User talk:Home Lander|talk]]) 17:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::::<small>Now do a list for “proper cities”.</small> 😉 [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 17:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{Done}}, if you meant the [[List of metropolitan areas by population density]]. [[User:Shawnqual|<span style="color:#FF91AF">'''''•Shawnqual•'''''&nbsp;📚</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shawnqual|💭]] 01:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

== Image thumbs displaying in negative ==

The three linked "related articles" at the bottom of each article page are showing their thumbnails in photographic negative for me. A temporary glitch, a problem on my end (mobile android chrome), I don't know -- standard images in-article look fine. I wanted to let someone know in case there is an issue to fix. See, e.g., bottom of [[Thomas Cromwell]] or [[Wyatt's rebellion]]. [[User:Al Begamut|Al Begamut]] ([[User talk:Al Begamut|talk]]) 17:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:In dark mode or light? I can't reproduce the issue in either. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:This sounds like the behaviour of the dark mode gadget (rather than the WMF extension), which has always done this. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 18:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::ah yes, that sounds like a possibility. thanks for helping me figure that out! [[User:Al Begamut|Al Begamut]] ([[User talk:Al Begamut|talk]]) 03:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

== Issue with transclusion of project subpages ==

On [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]], the subpages /leftpanel, /rightpanel, and /Members are supposed to be transcluded, but since recently they are shown as links. As far as I can tell, there were not any recent changes made to this project page or its subpages that could have triggered this. The issue with /leftpanel was [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Athletics#Leftpanel not shown it the Wikiproject page|reported]] on the project talk page on 28 July. Anyone know what caused it or how it could be fixed? –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 08:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Editør|Editør]], the page is in [[:Category:Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722243276863:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 08:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Thank you, I'm assuming this identifies the cause. I'm not sure how to fix this though. –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 09:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::[[User:Editør|Editør]], I assume you'd need to simplify or remove some of these template calls: <br/><code>Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template)<br/>100.00% 1838 242      1 -total<br/> 37.90%  696 694      1 Wikipedia:WikiProject_Athletics/rightpanel<br/> 28.63%  526 307      1 Wikipedia:WikiProject_Athletics/leftpanel<br/> 23.79%  437 326      1 Template:Scrolling_window<br/> 21.97%  403 905      1 User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult<br/> 19.57%  359 777      1 Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Athletics_articles_by_quality_statistics<br/> 19.35%  355 777      1 User:WP_1.0_bot/Tables/Project/Athletics<br/> 16.46%  302 510     15 User:AlexNewArtBot/MaintDisplay<br/> 14.55%  267 473    196 Template:Pagelinks<br/> 14.43%  265 233      1 User:WP_1.0_bot/WikiWork</code><span id="Qwerfjkl:1722245562448:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 09:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::::Thank you for the additional info. I don't think I understand enough about the issue to be able to fix this myself. –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 09:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::The expansion limit is broken by <code><nowiki>{{scrolling window|link=User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult|height=700px|title=New articles}}</nowiki></code> in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics/leftpanel]]. The transcluded content is passed multiple times and the size is added each time. If the code is replaced with a link to [[User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult]] then [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]] will go from breaking the 2 MB limit to only using 7% of it. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 09:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::When I changed it to <code><nowiki>{{User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult}}</nowiki></code> and purged the project page's cache, the transcluded content of /leftpanel was displayed again, so part of the issue seems to be caused by <code>{{tl|scrolling window}}</code> making the project page exceed some limit as you indicated. I'm not sure why this happened now, maybe because there the transcluded contents were much longer than usual due to the Summer Olympics? I have reverted my edit, because the project page became too long without the scrolling window. However, the change and purge didn't fix the transclusion issue for /rightpanel and /Members. –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 10:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::My suggested fix was a link to [[User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult]], meaning <code><nowiki>[[User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult]]</nowiki></code> without transclusion. If you want it transcluded and scrolling then you can place this directly somewhere in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]]: <syntaxhighlight lang=html>
<div style="font-size: 90%;   height: 700px; border: 1px solid gray; overflow: auto; padding: 0.5em 1em; " title="New articles">
{{User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult}}
</div>
</syntaxhighlight>
:::::::[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::The suggested solution with a div and CSS didn't work, I'm not sure why not. It even removed additional transcluded content from the project page, so I have reverted my edits for this. –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 11:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::You added it to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics/leftpanel]] where it get's a transclusion copy in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]] and breaks the limit. That's why I suggested to place it directly in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]], meaning by editing that page after removing the transclusion from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics/leftpanel]]. It will work but you may have to fiddle with the page to place it nicely. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah I see, I missed that you meant direct in the project page. I'm afraid don't have time for the fiddling right now. –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 12:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::I have implemented my original suggestion to just link [[User:AlexNewArtBot/AthleticsSearchResult]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Athletics/leftpanel&diff=prev&oldid=1237365427] [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics]] now displays correctly and only uses 7% of the transclusion limit. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::Thank you! –&nbsp;Editør ([[User talk:Editør|talk]]) 13:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

==Adding Redirect Cat Causes Double Redirect==
Where do I report an error in trying to add a redirect category to an existing redirect using the Tag button? 
 
I tried to add the {{tl|R with possibilities}} tag to a redirect, and it created a second empty redirect shell.  The original redirect had been [[Special:Permalink/1210632744]].  When I tried to add the additional category, using the Tag button, it applied this diff:
[[Special:Diff/1237443069]]. As can be seen, it moved the existing redirects into a new shell, leaving an empty shell. 

I have corrected it, but this is a bug.

If I should report this somewhere else, where?
[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 21:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[WP:Twinkle]] says to report bugs "on the [[WT:TWINKLE|talk page]], or [https://github.com/wikimedia-gadgets/twinkle/issues directly at our GitHub]". —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 21:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:I suspect that TW doesn't recognise the template redir {{tlx|r cs}}. The page [[Benjamin Howard (filmmaker)]] has been deleted, but admins may view the problem diff [//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Benjamin+Howard+%28filmmaker%29&timestamp=20240729203600&diff=prev here]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2024-31 ==

<section begin="technews-2024-W31"/><div class="plainlinks">
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/31|Translations]] are available.

'''Feature news'''
* Editors using the Visual Editor in languages that use non-Latin characters for numbers, such as Hindi, Manipuri and Eastern Arabic, may notice some changes in the formatting of reference numbers. This is a side effect of preparing a new sub-referencing feature, and will also allow fixing some general numbering issues in Visual Editor. If you notice any related problems on your wiki, please share details at the [[m:Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing|project talkpage]].

'''Bugs status'''
* Some logged-in editors were briefly unable to edit or load pages last week. [[phab:T370304|These errors]] were mainly due to the addition of new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:Linter|linter]] rules which led to caching problems. Fixes have been applied and investigations are continuing.
* Editors can use the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/IP Info|IP Information tool]] to get information about IP addresses. This tool is available as a Beta Feature in your preferences. The tool was not available for a few days last week, but is now working again. Thank you to Shizhao for filing the bug report. You can read about that, and [[m:Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks#2024-07-25|28 other community-submitted tasks]] that were resolved last week.

'''Project updates'''
* There are new features and improvements to Phabricator from the Release Engineering and Collaboration Services teams, and some volunteers, including: the search systems, the new task creation system, the login systems, the translation setup which has resulted in support for more languages (thanks to Pppery), and fixes for many edge-case errors. You can [[phab:phame/post/view/316/iterative_improvements/|read details about these and other improvements in this summary]].
* There is an [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project/Updates|update on the Charts project]]. The team has decided which visualization library to use, which chart types to start focusing on, and where to store chart definitions.
* One new wiki has been created: a {{int:project-localized-name-group-wikivoyage}} in [[d:Q9056|Czech]] ([[voy:cs:|<code>voy:cs:</code>]]) [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T370905] 

'''Learn more'''
* There is a [[diffblog:2024/07/26/the-journey-to-open-our-first-data-center-in-south-america/|new Wikimedia Foundation data center]] in São Paulo, Brazil which helps to reduce load times.
* There is new [[diffblog:2024/07/22/the-perplexing-process-of-uploading-images-to-wikipedia/|user research]] on problems with the process of uploading images.
* Commons Impact Metrics are [[diffblog:2024/07/19/commons-impact-metrics-now-available-via-data-dumps-and-api/|now available]] via data dumps and API.
* The latest quarterly [[mw:Technical Community Newsletter/2024/July|Technical Community Newsletter]] is now available.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/31|Translate]]&nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
</div><section end="technews-2024-W31"/>

<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]</bdi> 23:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&oldid=27164109 -->

== Page not appearing in search ==

Hi there, I was directed here [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Teahouse&diff=prev&oldid=1237511055#Searching_for_an_article_I_created_on_Google after asking this question at the Teahouse.] [[Roger Uren]] is a page I created for a former diplomat that was investigated by Australian intelligence services for alleged espionage. I told a friend to look it up, they searched for it in google as "Roger Uren Wikipedia". His page didn't pop up, but all mentions of him on other Wikipedia pages did. The Roger Uren page was created in early April (over 90 days ago). Is there any reason why it wouldn't appear? Another user told me that the Wikipedia page appears in a basic search of his name, but disappears when you add "Wikipedia" to the search. [[User:30Four|30Four]] ([[User talk:30Four|talk]]) 05:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

:Probably a side effect of our logic that blocks the article from indexing when it is newly created. When this index'ing restriction is lifted, Google isn't as likely to pick up the article until someone looks for it, edits it, or links to it from outside of wikipedia. It seems to show up now however. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:If you were literally searching Google for <code>"Roger Uren Wikipedia"</code> it would be less likely to appear, as those 3 words aren't together. This page is the number one result when I search for [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Roger+Uren%22+site%3Awikipedia.org <code>"Roger Uren" site:wikipedia.org</code>], so Google certainly knows about it. The page was also recently patrolled an hour or so ago (see [[Special:Redirect/logid/163473907]]), so that may help. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 09:53, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

== Table of contents ==

The table of contents behavior has changed, some time in the last few hours.  I'm using Firefox on a Windows PC.  Until now the table of contents has displayed on the left sidebar, which is what I want.  Now I still see that when displaying Firefox full screen, but when it's not full screen, which is my usual way of working, I don't see the TOC.  I can still get there by clicking the TOC icon in the upper left, or by expanding Firefox to full screen, but I strongly prefer the previous behavior.  What has changed, and can it be set back to the way it was?  (Note that I've not switched the TOC to "hide", it's still in "move to sidebar" mode.) <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 10:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

:It depends on the width of your screen. Maybe you don't have the exact window width ? Or possibly you zoomed in the browser one nudge with the zoom function that a browser has ? —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:53, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

::Okay, I think I see what happened.  I didn't realize this, but the width that I usually use for the browser window is slightly larger than the minimum for displaying the table of contents in the left sidebar.  Then today, without noticing it, I was using a slightly narrower window for the browser, causing the TOC to mysteriously disappear.  When I widen the window by a small amount, the "problem" is fixed.  Thanks for your help.  <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 12:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

== Dark mode images with transparent color ==

The [[UK Space Agency]] article has a logo at the top which is supposed to have the red, blue and white colors of the union jack, however the image doesn't actually use white, it uses transparent so it blends in with the off-white panel. However in dark mode the transparent area appears black so the logo appears red, blue and black which is wrong. The solution would be for images not to use transparent colors when they should be white although this would upset people who want the image to blend in with the off-white background panel. [[User:Termynaytor|Termynaytor]] ([[User talk:Termynaytor|talk]]) 04:45, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:If it should be white, someone needs to fix the logo. Misrepresenting logos is a miss on our part. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:59, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::Agreed. If a logo is truly intended to be transparent background, we should use that, of course. But that is the rarity. I'm not one for "catering" to companies/organizations' preference, but in the display of their logos (whether it's a white background or otherwise) we should follow their press/media kits for displaying it - at least in the color department. The vast majority of organizations will have their logo as part of a press/media kit with guidance on how it is to be shaped, the colors to use (often with exact hex values) - and we should use logo images that comply with those even if they are public domain, in my opinion. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ([[User:Berchanhimez|User]]/[[User talk:Berchanhimez|say hi!]]) 05:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::See also discussion started at [[Template talk:Infobox company#Logos_in_dark_mode]]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 06:55, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Izno|Berchanhimez}} The [https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/uk-space-agency official website] has the logo as a transparent PNG image, but the page background is explicitly <code>#fff</code>. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Quote from [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-space-agency-communications-resources/branding-guidelines#logo Branding guidelines]: {{Tq|2.1 Master logo // The master logo is red, white and blue, and should primarily be used on a white background.}}  Also, a zip file with logos can be downloaded from [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-space-agency-communications-resources UK Space Agency communications resources]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 13:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Termynaytor}} SVG files are comparatively easy to edit, especially when they were not created with InkScape. Use a plain text editor such as WordPad. This SVG image had just three elements - the {{tag|svg}} element itself, plus one {{tag|path|s}} element each for the red and blue portions. There is nothing to specify either background or transparency - SVG images are implicitly transparent, except for those areas where an object has been drawn that is 100% opaque.
:I've added a fourth element, being <syntaxhighlight lang=xml inline><rect x="0" y="0" width="500" height="140" fill="white" stroke="none" /></syntaxhighlight> which draws a white background before the coloured bits.
:Are there any other SVG images that you need fixing? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:22, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. There are other images in the thread linked by WOSlinker above such as the Porsche and Apple logos but people might prefer to keep the transparency in those cases. [[User:Termynaytor|Termynaytor]] ([[User talk:Termynaytor|talk]]) 08:42, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::A commons gadget that allows us to add a white background to images via a single button click would be really useful here... <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:52, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|Jdlrobson}} If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting a utility that, given the name of an existing image, will edit that image and save the amended image. My edit to [[:File:UK Space Agency logo.svg]] wasn't difficult, but I don't think that it's something that could easily be automated in a way that fits all situations. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::That also may run afoul of [[c:COM:OVERWRITE]], depending on specifics of the file, and the temptation of editors to use it widely on images of things that are not intrinsically "white background". [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 22:29, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

=== How to add a background color to an image in an infobox? ===

{{Moved from|WP:Help Desk|~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 04:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)}}
For example if a logo is all-white png it wouldn't be visible so a black background color is added to make it visible. [[User:Neocorelight|Neocorelight]] ([[User talk:Neocorelight|Talk]]) 03:24, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:You cannot rely on this because there is light and dark mode. Better to explicitly edit the image to have a background color. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 10:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::Wouldn't the color stay as is regardless of mode? Also please just answer the initial question. @[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]. [[User:Neocorelight|Neocorelight]] ([[User talk:Neocorelight|Talk]]) 23:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::I guess no one know how. [[User:Neocorelight|Neocorelight]] ([[User talk:Neocorelight|Talk]]) 23:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::{{U|Neocorelight}}, download the image and edit the background colour. Reupload the edited version to Wikimedia Commons, being sure to credit the original license holder, link to the version you remixed, and provide the same license as the original version.{{pb}}If you don't have image editing software on your device, you can probably use the free online tool [https://photopea.com Photopea.] [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 10:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:This has been fixed in [[Template:Infobox television]] with [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_television%2Fstyles.css&diff=1230561210&oldid=1220487305 this edit] that set the background to white (based on [[Template talk:Infobox television#Template needs to be updated to support night_mode|this discussion]]). [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 13:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

== Mark all revisions as patrolled ==

On Wikispecies (where I am an admin), if I view the history of a page with multiple unpatrolled edits, I see an option to "Mark all revisions as patrolled". I do not see this here on en.Wikipedia, nor on Wikidata.

How can I enable this on the latter projects (where I am not an admin; if that is relevant)?

I searched for that string, and found only one discussion, from 2009, which refers to an "Enchanted [SIC: enhanced?] recent changes" option under preferences -> Recent changes, but I see no such option on any of the listed projects. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

:You are incorporating [[:meta:MediaWiki:Gadget-patrolRevisions.js]] via a gadget loader in to your global user script file [[:meta:User:Pigsonthewing/global.js]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
::It requires the <code>patrol</code> right. At the English Wikipedia that means administrator or [[Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers|new page reviewer]]. You're the latter so I don't know why the link is missing. I tried loading the script in [[:meta:User:PrimeHunter/global.js]]. My admin account shows "Mark all revisions as patrolled" after clicking one of the "hist" links at [[Special:NewPagesFeed]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

== Start a discussion notice on Talk pages ==

{{tracked|T371125}}
Usually the start discussion notice is displayed on talk pages with no comments; But, now its in all talk pages. Even in [[Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)]], Don't know how long it has been but I just noticed it. Is it a glitch or something??? <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 11:48, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Vestrian24Bio|Vestrian24Bio]] I don't see that notice on [[Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)]], and I don't see it on other random talk pages I checked (e.g. [[Talk:The Fighting Temeraire]]). I see it on e.g. [[Talk:Anna Nagar railway station]], but that page has no comments (just a very big talk header), so that is expected.
:Can you share a screenshot of how these talk pages look for you? (You can upload screenshots more easily on Phabricator: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/file/upload/].) [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 13:58, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] I've took screenshots of [[Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)]] and [[Talk:Deadpool & Wolverine]] but, I'm unable to upload them now due to network constraints. I'll try to do it later; but for now the screenshots can be viewed here: [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MfcAOePEephzy3KwqQvoGUdsvCbhKmnv&usp=drive_fs] [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MfGSfUmxMEyd_CsuqEW7qEKsXxZoQnsC&usp=drive_fs]
::'''FYI''': The notice appears on bottom of the page. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 14:24, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Vestrian24Bio|Vestrian24Bio]] Oh, I see! You have enabled the new Parsoid wikitext parser at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-developertools]] (as evidenced by the "Rendered with Parsoid" badge visible in your screenshots – thank you for sending them!). I can reproduce the problem when I do that. I don't know why it happens, but I filed a bug about it: [[phab:T371125|T371125]]. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 16:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Okay, Thanks. {{smiley}} <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 17:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there an option to remove/hide this large notice (even on talk pages with no comments)? &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span>&nbsp; 11:41, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

:There isn't, but you could hide it using personal CSS. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 11:55, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Matma Rex}} that's great! Would you know how? &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span>&nbsp; 18:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] Edit your personal CSS page: [[Special:MyPage/common.css]] and add the following there:
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
.ext-discussiontools-emptystate {
  display: none !important;
}
</syntaxhighlight>
:::There is a (terribly outdated) help page about this feature at [[Help:User style]]. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 09:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

== black list ==

could someone create rd's from [[Ɖ𝼅]] and [[D𝼅]] to [[Voiced retroflex lateral affricate]], parallel to the other articles on affricates?

thanks, [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Kwamikagami|Kwamikagami]], you can create them, because you have the template editor perm.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722418732359:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 09:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Oh yeah. Thanks! [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 10:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

== Small font? ==
Can anyone decipher why the font on the entire article is small at [[2024 Venezuelan presidential election]]?  Or is it just my eyes?  [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]])  02:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
: Weird, but it seems that when the page first loads, the font size looks normal, but then it resets itself smaller. [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]])  02:42, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::Have you tried resetting the zoom of your browser to original  ? —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 07:12, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks, but I don't have a small font on other articles. [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]])  13:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|SandyGeorgia}} With some browsers, the zoom setting is remembered in a non-intuitive way. For example, if you zoom out on one page, click through to another page, the zoom level is inherited; if on that you reset to normal zoom then return to the first page, it may be normal, or it may still be zoomed out. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ... now if I can figure out how to reset iPad <sigh> ... [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]])  15:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

== suppressing a Help talk: warning/notice ==

Recently and editor asked a question at [[WP:HD]].  I replied that the correct place to have asked that question was [[Help talk:Citation Style 1]].  In response, the editor said that they didn't because there is a notice that reads:
:'''Attention'''
:Talk pages in this namespace are generally not watched by many users. Please consider visiting the Help desk for a more prompt response or reviewing the Help contents for quick tips.
That message is displayed when the editor is seeing the edit view.  Is there any way to suppress that warning/notice for a single Help talk: page?

—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:55, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]], presumably that would require some edit to [[Template:Editnotices/Namespace/Help talk]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722520952854:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 14:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Which would/could impact many/most/all talk pages that display that notice.  I want to suppress the notice {{em|only}} at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1]].
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm assuming you want to suppress it for others here, not just for yourself? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:16, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes.  I don't want editors to be scared away from the talk page where they can get cs1|2 help.  All of the cs1|2 template and module talk pages redirect to [[Help talk: Citation Style 1]].  Editors should not arrive there and then think that they must go to some other page for help.  If we wanted editors to ask questions at [[WP:HD]], we'd have redirected the cs1|2 template and module talk pages there.
::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Assuming the user story is "I should post my question somewhere besides here because of that notice" - perhaps that could be overcome by adding more to [[Template:Editnotices/Page/Help talk:Citation Style 1]] (the notice for only that page) stating that unlike most HT: pages, questions are most welcome here. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:18, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Can editnotices have conditionals in them? [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 14:31, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::: Yes, they can. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 14:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::You assume correctly.  I'm not convinced that conflicting messages are ever a good thing.  Is it possible to create a template that does nothing but drag in a templatestyles css page that contains something like:
:::::<syntaxhighlight lang="css">.visibility {
  display: none !important;
}</syntaxhighlight>
:::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::: It looks like that should almost work, and work from the page-specific edit notice, but <syntaxhighlight inline lang="css">.visibility</syntaxhighlight> looks like it wouldn't be correct (also the <syntaxhighlight inline lang="css">!important</syntaxhighlight> should be unnecessary). As things are you'd want to target <syntaxhighlight inline lang="css">#Visibility</syntaxhighlight>, although personally I'd probably do <syntaxhighlight inline lang="css">.editnotice-namespace #Visibility</syntaxhighlight> just in case. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 14:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::And that works.  Thank you.  See {{tlx|suppress visibility notice}}.
:::::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] You could wrap the editnotice (or the "help" line in {{tl|Visibility}}) in <syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext inline>{{#ifeq:{{ROOTPAGENAME}}|Citation Style 1||...}}</syntaxhighlight> as long as there's only one (or a small handful) of pages that need to be excluded. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 14:33, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Yeah, that would probably work.  But, but, I hate special cases ...
::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

== Display of Text Image is Distorted ==

Hello, I found a problem on Commons. The problem is with images in SVG format, where there is distortion in the display of the text of the image, a change in the location of the text display, and a difference in the size of the text display.

This is a sample '''[[commons:File:Anterior_Thyroid_-_Arabic.svg|image]]''', please click and view. So if you click on it, it will appear to you like [https:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Anterior_Thyroid_-_Arabic.svg this].

I thought the problem was due to the program I use to edit photos. For about a full day, I was experimenting with solving the problem, trying different size dimensions and so on, but it was not solved. Then in the end I discovered that the cause of the problem was the Commons website and not me.

I was also able to find out the reason for the problem on the Commons website. It occurs because the text is in a large size, and if you reduce it, the text size will be displayed at approximately the correct size.

Therefore, I ask that the technicians responsible please fix this defect, because it is a major problem. I have stopped editing images until the problem is fixed. Unfortunately, many people must have stopped designing images in this format and uploading them to Wikipedia articles because of this problem.

'''Note''': I do not want to raise the discussion within the Commons project, because it is a very important problem related to the display of images in Wikipedia articles, and Because there is no interest from technicians within the Commons project. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 21:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

:How do you know technicians from the Commons project wouldn't be interested in this issue if you haven't raised it there? [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 22:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]]You can take a look [[commons:Commons:Village_pump/Technical/Bug_reports|here]] There are problems raised a year ago that have not been answered. Also, the problem I raised is urgent and important. I have stopped all my projects until the bug is fixed. In addition, the problem is linked between the two projects. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 19:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Not saying you shouldn't have raised it here, just that you might also try raising it there to increase coverage. Arabic's SVG rendering possibly not working is a serious, global bug to be sure. Have you happened to find any graphics that ''don't'' have the issue? [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 02:58, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:I think the problem is that your used the [[Arial]] font in your image, which is not a free font, and thus is not installed on the Wikimedia servers. Try changing the text in the image to use one of the fonts listed here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/SVG_fonts – I suggest [[Liberation Sans]], which was designed as an alternative to Arial – and see if that makes it display right. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 22:28, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]]: Nope. I have tried (LiberationSans-Bold), and the problem is the same. There has only been a slight difference in text measurements, but text distortion, positioning, and size are still there. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 02:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Hmm, you're right. I uploaded a new version of the file ([[:File:Anterior Thyroid - Arabic.svg]]) just to be sure, and it still looks very wrong. I want to try some other things, but I'm not sure how the result is supposed to look like – the SVG file on my computer also has slightly weird-looking text, and I'm not sure if it's a problem with the file or with my applications: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F56717722. Can you export it to PNG on your computer and upload that version to Commons too, so that we may compare? [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 03:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

@[[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]]: I think I discovered the cause of the problem, it is caused by a difference in dots per inch. Because I downloaded an image in SVG format for the year 2010 and wanted to modify it, but I saw this message inside the program:

<span style="color:red">was created in an older version of Inkscape (90 DPI) and we need to make it compatible with newer versions (96 DPI). Tell us about this file. This file contains digital artwork for screen display (Choose if unsure.) This file is intended for physical output, such as paper or 30 prints. Create a backup file in same directory. More details: We've updated Inkscape to follow the CSS standard of 36 OPI for better browser compatibility we used to use 50 DPI. Digital artwork for screen. display will be converted to 96 DPI without scaling and should be unaffected. Artwork drawn at 90 DPI for a specific physical size will be too small if converted to 96 DPI without any scaling. There are two scaling methods. Scaling the whole document: The least error-prone method, this preserves the appearance of the artwork, including filters and the position of masks etc. The scale of the artwork relative to the document size may not be accurate. Scaling individual elements in the artwork: This method is less reliable and can result in a changed appearance but is better for physical output that relles on accurate sizes and positions (for example for 3D printing. More information about this change are available in the Inliscape</span>'''

I have installed Inkscape version 0.48 (2010). Then I tried editing the image and uploading it to Commons, and I did not see any distortion or any problems with the text.
__________________
There is another problem, which is when you open the image in [[commons:File:Anterior_Thyroid_-_Arabic.svg|this]] way, right-click on it and then download it directly, without clicking on the download icon, the image is not downloaded in SVG format, but rather in PNG format, and this is a big problem that should not happen. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 04:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:::@[[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]]: This is the original [[commons:File:Anterior_thyroid.jpg|image]]. We do not have distortion problems with PNG images because their texts are more like printed matter or more like hardsub, meaning that the text is not editable, nor are the image objects. As for SVG files, they are more like an image project that can be edited and translated, including the text. I work with SVG images so that they can be easily modified and translated into other languages. I hope in the future that Wikipedia's policy will change so that it does not allow uploading any PNG images of any images with text on them.
:::In fact, I suggest that Wikipedia provide the feature of translating SVG image texts without the need to upload them repeatedly for each language. This will facilitate the work and reduce the size of the Commons server data. I mean, if the Commons project provides us with the advantage of recognizing image texts and translating them so that they are displayed directly without the need to repeatedly upload the image in each language, then the matter will become easier and faster and will save space on the Commons project server. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 05:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::::SVG image rendering is done using librsvg, if you have problems with how the image renders it is probably a problem in the librsvg library. We don't do direct work on developing the software that renders the SVG (it is a dependency). If you find the issue, perhaps you can report it with the librsvg project. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::::" I suggest that Wikipedia provide the feature of translating SVG image texts without the need to upload them repeatedly for each language" You are welcome to write such functionality for MediaWiki. Most of this kind of functionality is written by volunteers. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:58, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::In fact there is a tool for this already: [[commons:Commons:SVG Translate tool]]. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color: #080;">"?!"</span>]] 10:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::The user stated they wish to do this without having to reupload for each translation. While svg translate allows combining translations into a single upload, each edit to them or each new translation still requires a reupload. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::[[File:Speech bubbles.svg|thumb|This image is in English]][[File:Speech bubbles.svg|thumb|lang=de|This is in German, but it's the ''same'' image]] {{user|Jarry1250}} (a former VPT regular, but still around from time to time) has already shown us how this may be done, see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 96#SVG translation]]. If you go to the [[c:File:Speech bubbles.svg|file description page]], you should see a "Render this image in" dropdown - pick something from that. It makes use of [https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#SwitchElement the <code>switch</code> element] in SVG. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 10:51, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
:"right-click on it and then download it directly" then you are downloading the thumbnail, and this is expected. If you want the original file, you always need to use the link below it "original file" and choose Save file as. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 08:48, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for all this information. 
::@[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]]: yes, I know this. I meant that the image must be downloaded in SVG format even if it is clicked directly without clicking on the download icon - otherwise some people may not pay attention to the download icon and a problem and suspicion will occur.
::@[[User:The wub|The wub]]The wub: This is something legendary, I didn't know about it. But I have a problem, which is when I access a Commons project in English, its interface will switch to Arabic. Unfortunately, the Commons project cannot be accessed according to the desired language، and unfortunately, the (Content Translation/V2) is not available in this project, and for this reason I cannot translate many explanatory articles in the Commons project. '''I hope that the [[Commons:SVG Translate tool]] icon is present on the information page of every SVG image uploaded to Commons, so that everyone knows that this feature exists, whether writing on images or translating them.'''
::I have informed the members of the [[Librsvg]] project, and am waiting for their response to find out if the problem is due to the library. We still need to find out the cause of the malfunction, to determine the cause of the problem, any information about this would be helpful. I hope that we will cooperate in fixing the defect, because the problem is related to a major error related to Wikipedia, especially the display of images. I have currently stopped all my projects related to image design, because if I now upload images with small texts in them so that they will be displayed in a large size, it is expected that after fixing the defect, the text size will decrease.[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 08:05, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Mohmad Abdul sahib}} Regarding {{tq|the Commons project cannot be accessed according to the desired language}} - have you checked that the setting at [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-i18n]] is correct? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 09:53, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I have opened a report [https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/librsvg/-/issues/1105 here]. I cannot handle the issue and follow up the problem programmatically, because I am not a programmer. By opening the issue in the [[Librsvg]] project forum, it becomes clear that following up on the problem and diagnosing its cause is the responsibility of Wikipedia members. I did everything I could do, and the rest requires your intervention. [[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 17:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Can anybody provide us with report information [https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/librsvg/-/issues/1105#note_2184016 here]?[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|<span style="font-size:0.875em;color: #339900;text-shadow:silver 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">'''Mohmad Abdul sahib'''</span>]] <span style="font-size:0.875em;color: Purple;text-shadow:silver 0.1em 0.2em 0.2em;">'''[[User:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk☎]]'''</span> [[User talk:Mohmad Abdul sahib|talk]] 02:46, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Mohmad Abdul sahib}} {{user|AKlapper (WMF)}} has already told you why it's not a matter for Gnome. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 06:13, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

==JavaScript IllWill.js help needed==
There is a problem with the behaviour of [[User:Cobaltcigs]]'s [[User:Cobaltcigs/IllWill.js|IllWill.js]]: If I fill in the edit summary as I go along editing an article, and then invoke that script, it overwrites my edit summary with its own. I'm no expert in JavaScript, but it occurs to me that changing in line 162 the operator <code>=</code> to <code>+=</code> would fix that. Then again, it might need more elaborate coding.

I [[Special:diff/1235258054|left a message]] on the user's talk page, but he hasn't edited for some months. I also left a message at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject JavaScript#Help: IllWill.js]] a few days ago, without response so far, so I would appreciate it if someone here could fix this or confirm that my suggestion will work. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 14:09, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]], probably the easiest thing to do is simply fork the script.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722696393264:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 14:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)</span>

== SVG dark-mode support ==

It should be possible to specify the [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/color-scheme colour-scheme] to be used when rasterising SVG files. This would influence the default styling applied to SVG elements and activate any CSS media queries that target {{URL|https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-color-scheme|<code>prefers-color-scheme</code>}}. For example, a background normally rendered as pale blue for white backgrounds might select a darker shade in night-mode to avoid the garish contrast:

<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
:root {
	color-scheme: light dark;
	fill: #00c;
}
@media (prefers-color-scheme: dark){
	:root { fill: #003; }
}
</syntaxhighlight>

The MediaWiki thumbnail generator already provides a means of specifying language when rendering multilingual SVGs by prefixing the thumbnail's filename with <code>lang<var>id</var>-</code> (where <code><var>id</var></code> is the [[BCP 47]] tag of the desired language). The same approach could be used to request a rendering of an SVG using a particular [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/color-scheme colour-scheme]; for example, by supporting an optional <code>dark-</code> prefix in thumbnail URLs. Expressed in [[Backus–Naur form|BNF]], the format of thumbnail URLs would be:

<syntaxhighlight lang="bnf" line>
<thumbnail-url> ::= <base> "/" <name> "/" [<theme>] [<lang>] <size> "-" <name> ".png"
<base>          ::= "https:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/"
<theme>         ::= "dark-" | "light-"
<lang>          ::= "lang" <locale> "-"
<size>          ::= <width> "px-"

; Variables (values shown here by way of example)
<name>          ::= "Lang_Status_01-EX.svg"
<locale>        ::= "de"
<width>         ::= "480"
</syntaxhighlight>

I'm aware of a CSS class named <syntaxhighlight lang="css" inline>.skin-invert-image</syntaxhighlight> that inverts image colours for dark-mode users, but it's an inelegant and hacky solution that really only works for images with simple colour palettes (like [[c:File:Lang Status 00-All.svg|this]]). A more robust and seamless approach would be to extend the [[WP:EIS|image syntax]] to include a new parameter named <code><var>theme</var></code> that recognises one of three values: <samp>dark</samp>, <samp>light</samp>, and <samp>auto</samp> (the default). <samp>Auto</samp> would select either the dark or light rendering of an SVG based on the reader's display preferences, while <samp>dark</samp> or <samp>light</samp> specify motifs unconditionally (potentially facilitating the use of <code class="nowrap">[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/picture &lt;picture&gt;]</code> tags, should MediaWiki support them in the future).<br/> —&nbsp;[[User:Alhadis|Alhadis]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Alhadis#top|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

:That is pretty well written, but SVG´s are outputted as PNG´s to the client. So, either the "wgSVGNativeRenderingSizeLimit" or "wgSVGNativeRendering" server settings would be have to be on for this to work, as per [[phab:T208578]]. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 01:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:That's a lot of extra complexity in the software, and equally important, requires editing and reuploading a lot of images. For that reason it is not very likely to happen soon. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 17:21, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

== Black icons and the [[Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)|dark mode gadget]] on Vector2010  ==

Certain templates use SVG images that are not visible with the [[Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)|dark mode gadget]].
* [[Template:Paid]] uses [[:File:Dollar_sign_in_circle_cleaned_(PD_version).svg]]
* [[Template:No spam]] uses [[:File:At sign.svg]]

How to fix this? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 20:59, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

:No spam is already using the appropriate classes. The gadget should be modified.
:After a recent edit, the same is true of Paid. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

== newline ==

If you use {{tlxs|Welcome-newuser|2=heading=no}} it insert an extra newline at the top. Can that be fixed? Thanks, [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:There's nothing in the template itself that would do that, so you need to look deeper. The next level in is [[Module:Template wrapper]] which is passed [[Template:Welcome]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:13, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:No, this can not be fixed. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:45, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
::I'm not sure what Izno means. The newline is inserted by {{tl|Welcome}} which could be changed to not insert a newline in the future. It wouldn't affect past substitutions, and I don't know whether the template is used in circumstances where it would be bad to omit the newline. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:::AFAICS removing the newline would make it so that welcome normally substs like <code>== Welcome ==Ipsum</code> rather than the intended <code>== Welcome ==<ins>\n</ins>Ipsum</code>. Perhaps you can make it work. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:11, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
::::The rules for whitespace stripping and rendering are complicated and the template actually leaves two newlines which is why it renders as extra whitespace. I have removed the first newline in the sandbox version with a method [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AWelcome%2Fsandbox&diff=1238455844&oldid=1238451683] which leaves behind a nowiki on substitution. Not elegant but are there real problems? [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::That's pretty gross to be plopping on new editor talk pages. They don't need an introduction to nowiki in that way.... [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 23:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

== Template:Welcome-Foreign/persian ==

Just thrown <nowiki>{{welcome-foreign/Persian}}</nowiki> on [[user:Zohreh.b1993|a user]], and it hasn’t prompted a <nowiki>== Welcome ==</nowiki> title to spawn. I’m pretty sure most use of welcome-foreign prompts a title? Unless I’m thinking of another template that Welcoming Committee often use? [[User:Matticusmadness|MM]] [[User talk:Matticusmadness|<span style="color: brown">(Give me info.)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Matticusmadness|<sup style="color: Orange">(Victories)</sup>]] 08:44, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:Well that template does not include any header. So if you are able to write Persian, you could add in the header to the template. The header should have == translation of welcome == , though one I checked out had === instead of ==. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 10:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

== Germany categories ==

[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 21#German Confederation]] has had the effect of leaving behind ''56'' non-empty redlinked categories for [[Special:WantedCategories]] cleanup, because "YYYY in Germany" categories were moved to "YYYY in the German Confederation", but then various subcategories were left behind in the redlinks because the category was template-transcluded onto them instead of being directly declared — and while it is technically possible for me to fix them by manually going around switching <nowiki>{{EstCatCountry|Germany}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{EstcatCountry|the German Confederation}}</nowiki>, doing that would have the side-effect of simultaneously ''breaking'' other categories on the same contents (e.g. "[Decade] establishments in Germany", "Establishments in Germany by year"), by turning them from bluelinks into redlinks because ''they'' still need the Estcatcountry template to be saying "Germany" rather than "the German Confederation".

So, essentially, there's no way for me to fix the existing redlinked categories without causing new redlinked categories in the process, and thus I need technical help getting them cleaned up. Thanks. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 13:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
: Note that not even all the "YYYY in Germany" categories were renamed, only the ones for years prior to 1871. [[:Category:1871 in Germany]] and later still exist. As for [[Template:EstcatCountry]], its documentation suggests that passing Germany and having redirects from "[Decade] establishments in Germany" to "[Decade] establishments in the German Confederation" where appropriate should work. Or maybe vice versa, passing "the German Confederation" and having appropriate category redirects in the other direction. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 14:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::That's fine, but with ''56'' of them, is there any way that a ''bot'' can be made to wham through recreating those redirects instead of it having to be ''my'' job? [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 16:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I once put in a request at [[WP:AWBREQ]] for something similar, see [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks/Archive 15#Victoria (Australia) → Victoria (state)]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:05, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:The template should really be reworked to get the country name from the category title. Having a template for automation, but then requiring users to manually enter the information seems incomplete. [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 18:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

== Inflation template broken ==

I noticed on [[Hey Jude#Auctioned lyrics and memorabilia]] that the inflation conversion from pounds to US$ is showing "US$FXConvert/Wordify error: cannot parse value 'Unknown country code for year 2023: GBR '". Many of the GBR test cases on [[:Template:FXConvert/testcases]] are similarly broken, so it's probably affecting a lot of articles. I can't tell where exactly this data is coming from or if there were recent changes causing this. [[User:hinnk|hinnk]] ([[User talk:hinnk|talk]]) 19:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
: At a quick glance, it looks like data for {{tl|Inflation}} in [[Template:Inflation/UK-GDP/dataset]], [[Template:Inflation/year]], and [[Template:Inflation/fn]] was updated for 2023, but [[Template:To USD/data/2023]] was not updated. {{tl|FXConvert}} seems to assume that will have been updated too. BTW, I see similar errors for CAN, IND, and BGD. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 21:20, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Snowman304}} {{ping|Izno}} Would the changes mentioned in [[Template talk:Inflation#Template-protected edit request on 15 July 2024]] have caused this? [[User:hinnk|hinnk]] ([[User talk:hinnk|talk]]) 22:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:::What Anomie is saying there is that FXConvert was already broken. The changes there just made it clear that it is. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 23:09, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Oh my mistake, I had read it as the template working (or at least, not showing any errors) until the new data exposed a case it couldn't handle. Is there a more appropriate place to raise this issue then? I notice [[:Template:FXConvert]] doesn't have a talk page. [[User:hinnk|hinnk]] ([[User talk:hinnk|talk]]) 23:58, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::There are many errors at {{tl|FXConvert/doc}} and that template's testcases page. It looks like the error is generated by {{tl|To USD/data/2023}}, which is much smaller than {{tl|To USD/data/2021}}. It appears that if a country code is missing from the "/2023" template, it generates an error message. It is unclear to me how numbers are chosen for the /2023 template. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 04:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Most of the pages currently [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Error&namespace=0 transcluding errors] have this problem. I noticed it started about a month ago with Canada (CAN) on a few pages. I tried to trace it but it became too much of a time sink to debug. Now it's really gotten bigger since GBR joined in. Where, oh, where is the editor who designed and implemented all this obscure complexity? – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 04:05, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, [[User:Anomie|Anomie]]. Now it's coming back to me. I recall looking at this and making a fix [[Template talk:Inflation#Update requested for US 2023 data|earlier this year]]. {{U|Snowman304}} made [[special:diff/1237322365|this edit at 05:52, 29 July 2024]]. Damn, that [[Template:Inflation/UK-GDP/dataset]] is buried so deep in the system that it's a wonder anyone ever finds it. No wonder it only ever gets updated about once every three or four years. I just [[special:diff/1238528490|updated the instructions comment]]:
::::::<code><nowiki><!--</nowiki> *** When changing this also update the reference in [[Template:Inflation/fn]] and the latest year in [[Template:Inflation/year]]! *** --></code>
::::::[[:Category:Pages using an unknown country code in Template:To USD]] lists mainspace pages which are showing {{tl|error}} messages.
::::::I see that [[Template:To USD/data/2023]] is the template that's populating that category. That defaults to showing the error for any country that's not listed, and not very many countries are listed. I guess we look to the parent template [[Template:To USD]] for documentation. – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 11:08, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::The most recent edit at [[Template talk:To USD]] was made in February. [[Template talk:To USD#Documentation for how to add new data?|Documentation for how to add new data?]] Hah. [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 11:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I spent an hour in my user sandbox on 22 May 2024‎ attempting to fix Canada. So I think the issue with data failing to be updated in a timely manner dates back to [[special:diff/1223094124|this 21:13, 9 May 2024 update]] to [[Template:Inflation/CA/dataset]]. – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 14:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I got as far as tracing the problem down to [[Template:To USD/General]], where I updated the documentation to show two examples – one working and one broken. Now they both work. – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 15:05, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, every year data has to be added. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 11:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I have updated 2022 and 2023. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 13:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks, [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]]. [[Carbon price]] and [[List of owners of Italian football clubs]] are still showing errors for code "EUR". – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 14:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::The WB data does not provide EUR. Somebody had added it without mentioning the source. I have restored that, but I will have to update the ECB data so that the conversion goes through ToEUR. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 15:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I had used an old script. The EUR data is provided by the WB in each country. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 16:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I think I don't have a script for the current European data, but only for the historical ECU data. Also, it seems the European data does not include the country name and code but only the currency name and/or code. The sites are not as easy to use as the WB. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 18:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::To convert from USD to EUR, To EUR will fall back to using To USD beyond its last year of data. [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 18:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::To convert from INR to EUR, To EUR will fall back to using INRConvert beyond its last year of data [[User:Trigenibinion|Trigenibinion]] ([[User talk:Trigenibinion|talk]]) 18:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

==Cleanup from decades past==
There's this recurring issue at [[Special:WantedCategories]] where a redlinked {{cl|Clean-up categories from YYYY}} gets generated because somebody has erroneously backdated a maintenance template to 15 or 20 years ago — following which a bot ''automatically'' recreates the resulting redlinked maintenance-queue category for that specific template, but then leaves the general "clean-up" container as a redlink that ends up becoming the category cleanup crew's job to fix. 

For example, {{cl|Articles with unsourced statements from July 2004}} has been recreated ''four times'' within the past ''two weeks'', just from people accidentally typing 2004 instead of 2024 in a {{tl|citation needed}} template somewhere in an article, which is obviously just a disruptive pain in the badonkadonk to have to keep dealing with over and over.

I've asked here before, and was told that it ''was'' possible, but obviously it didn't happen: is there any way that maintenance templates like {{tl|citation needed}} can be made to do an ifexist check on categories, and file nonexisters in an error-catcher category (e.g. "citation needed with dating problems" or something along those lines) ''instead'' of causing the recreation of a redlinked category that's already been cleaned up and deleted in the past? [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 13:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:Also, given that it's clearly possible for bots to detect and automatically create redlinked maintenance categories as needed, then can any of the following things that inevitably hit WantedCategories on a regular basis get farmed out to bots instead of becoming ''my'' job to fix?
:*"Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations from [Current Month and Year]", which consistently lands there at some point in the middle of every month without fail, and should really just be automatically created by a bot right off the top of the month if it's routinely expected to exist? 
:*Any non-empty redlinks of the "Articles containing [Insert Language Here] text", "Pages with [Insert Language Here] IPA" and "CS1 [Insert Language Here]-language sources (lang code)" varieties?
:*Any non-empty redlinks for "Wikipedia sockpuppets of [User]" and "Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of [User]"? [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 15:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::I'll comment on some of these.
::*Dated maintenance categories (such as {{cl|Articles with unsourced statements from July 2024}}) are created by {{user|AnomieBOT}} if either of two conditions apply: (i) it's now the last day of the preceding month; (ii) there's a page in the category and the date is valid - even if the year is a typo. I would expect that if you want different behaviour from AnomieBOT, your first contact should be {{user|Anomie}}, who (unlike some botops I could name) is not only active but also replies to talk page messages.
::*Cats like {{cl|Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations from July 2024}} have always been manual creations. One prolific creator (particularly of the early ones, in 2011-2016) was {{user|Bencherlite}}, who is [[WP:MIA]]. Other people have also created them, see [[Special:PermaLink/1237204494|this list]], but note that the person named is the one who made the last edit to the page, often this was the page creation but not always. I think that for this one, it's something to bring up at [[Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests]].
::*The sockpuppet ones should really be the responsibility of the [[WP:SPI]] admin or clerk who "tagged" the user pages.
::HTH. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Obviously sockpuppet ones ''should'' be the responsibility of the admin or clerk who tagged the page, but mistakes can and do happen — so there really needs to be a way to catch such mistakes before they become my problem to fix.
:::When it comes to the backdated maintenance templates, it's really a thing that the ''template'' needs to handle rather than the bot. The bot is just going to come along and create any non-empty redlink it finds, and can't easily modify a redlinked category to be different than what's there — it's the ''template'' that needs to be prevented from being ''able'' to generate a backdated redlink like that ''at all'', so that there's nothing ''for'' the bot to have to recreate. So it's really that the ''template'' needs to have "if asked to regenerate outdated category that does not exist, then replace with problem-catcher category instead of redlinked date" code inside the template, because a bot can't make that happen if the template isn't already handling it. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 21:14, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:: Some more details on how AnomieBOT works:
::* When the target category doesn't exist, the templates populate both [[:Category:Articles with unsourced statements from July 2004]] and [[:Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template]]. AnomieBOT looks through articles in the latter category to find the former, as there are simply too many possibilities for it to check for the former directly. <small>Well, I suppose these days a DB query on Toolforge could be done, but suffix searches aren't very efficient.</small>
::* AnomieBOT does look for missing "Clean-up categories from Month Year" categories to create them. I could have it also do "Clean-up categories from Year" if that's wanted. Would that be a special case, or should we have a [[:Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories sorted by year]] to match [[:Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories sorted by month]]?
::* AnomieBOT won't create dated categories for ''any'' date, only dates since 2004. I forget why I picked that year specifically, beyond deciding that anything earlier was definitely not some ancient article being undeleted or some ancient edit removing a maintenance tag being reverted. I could bump it to 2010 easily enough if people typing "200X" instead of "202X" is a common thing.
::* Having AnomieBOT create [[:Category:Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations from July 2024]]-type cats wouldn't be quite as simple as most. Normally we'd just need to add the the base category to [[:Category:Wikipedia categories sorted by month]], but since in this case the base category is [[:Category:Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations by month]] rather than [[:Category:Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations]] I'd also need to configure an override for the bot. Also I'd need to do something if we don't want them to be created with {{tlx|Monthly maintenance category|cat{{=}}Category:Wikipedia Today's featured article nominations by month}}.
::* The non-date examples would need to be considered case by case. "Wikipedia sockpuppets of" and Wikipedia suspected sockpuppets of" seem like reasonable prefixes to search for. Not sure about "Articles containing", "Pages with", or "CS1".
:: HTH. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 00:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Regarding bumping from 2004 to 2010 – can the bot look up the earliest existing month/year category and not create categories which are earlier than that? —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Bad news: {{cl|Articles needing additional references from October 2006}} is an active backlog. Good news: there are fewer than 1,000 articles in all of {{cl|Clean-up categories from 2006}}, not including those in {{cl|Articles containing potentially dated statements from 2006‎}}, which is apparently not a backlog category. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 16:32, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::OK, so the cutoff year could be the earliest existing category's year or {{tl|CURRENTYEAR}} − 10, whichever is the latest (the maximum out of the two). —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 18:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: I wonder how often people validly undelete, or unredirect, or otherwise revert to a revision that has a maintenance tag older than that. Or how often people change a tag from one category to another, suddenly populating the "another" category with a bunch of old dates. Also I'd rather have a consistent cutoff rather than having to try to look up an earliest date for every different category. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 23:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:Can I butt in here for a moment to ask if we're seriously considering making the lives of people who actually work the backlogged cleanup categories (I'm sure they exist) significantly harder, so that the people who keep [[Special:WantedCategories]] tidy are less inconvenienced?  I've also had empty maint categories I've G6'd years ago pop back up, and that's a ''good thing'', because it means someone's reverted an unsourced article that was made into a redirect years ago, or copy-pasted in an old version of a deleted article, or reverted a page to a really old version, and those all need to be dealt with.  If we make the maintenance tags not categorize such edits, then they're going to be noticed by a ''lot'' fewer people.  If it's just a matter of the bot not recreating redlinked grandfather cats, then have it make those.  Or, y'know, deal with the underlying problem - most of the time the correct thing to do was a simple rollback or G4 speedy, in my experience - and then G6 the maintenance cat again.  Even if you omit the last, it's not going to last an hour anyway; we've got admins who race each other for easy speedies like that. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 03:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::It is in no way whatsoever a "good thing" for the same backdated maintenance category to come back as a red link four times in the space of just two weeks, and not even one of those times resulted from anything that could have been simply "reverted back to the way it was" or "deleted" — every time required a full "edit article to find mistyped template date". Every single ''minute'' that anybody has to spend on redlinked category cleanup is one more minute than anybody ''should'' have to be spending on redlinked category cleanup — the ''ideal'' state of that report is "always empty because no redlinked categories are ever on any pages at all", and anything even slightly short of that is a problem. 
::Part of the rule against redlinked categories, in fact, is that templates are strictly forbidden from generating redlinked categories at all, and have to be modified if and when they are generating redlinked categories.
::So it's not my job to just patiently redelete the same maintenance categories over and over again without asking for something to be done to prevent them from even recurring in the first place — my job is to take any and all steps necessary to get that report to a state of "always empty and never listing even one redlinked category because no redlinked categories ever exist to be listed". [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 16:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I don't see any other way to read this other than as confirmation that you'd rather articles (which real people read) - remain broken, so that A) the bot-recreated maintenance categories, which only editors (and a tiny minority of those) use, don't need to be redeleted - and there's plenty of admins willing to do that, and B) maintenance reports of ''those'' maintenance categories, which are looked at by an even tinier number minority of editors, and which I'm not convinced are used by anybody at all, remain tidy.  '''Oppose action''', and may I suggest your priorities are ''seriously'' in need of adjustment. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 17:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::I'll thank you to kindly not put words in my mouth. Not only did I ''not'' say that "articles should remain broken", I didn't say a single thing that could even possibly be ''interpreted'' that way. But literally by definition, any redlinked ''category'' that ends up on an article is ''also'' a ''broken thing'' — an article with a redlinked category on it is ''breaking the article'', a template that generates and transcludes redlinked categories is ''breaking the article'', and on and so forth. What I asked for is ways to ''fix broken stuff'', not ways to "break" anything, because an error-checker category is ''not'' breaking ''anything'', while the redlinked categories I'm trying to ''fix'' are the ''only'' thing that's "breaking" anything whatsoever in this equation. ''Nothing'' I asked for here "breaks" ''anything'', while ''not'' doing anything about what I asked for here ''is'' breaking things, because templates adding redlinked categories to articles is breaking things while templates checking and applying error-checker categories if there's a potential problem to be checked for is not breaking anything. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 20:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

== Dark mode issues ==

In dark mode, at {{tl|Stabbing Westward}}, the actual link for [[Stabbing Westward]] is an extremely dark grey that is difficult to see on a black background.   Also, when editing, anything that is NOT a link is grey text on a white background.  It was not this way before.  Does anyone know how to fix this? 

[[File:Wikipedia snip1.png|thumb|Grey text on white background when editing]]
[[File:Wikipedia snip2.png|thumb|Black text on black background when viewing]]
--[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 22:10, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:This is [[Template_talk:Navbox#Make_navbox-title_links_show_in_dark_mode|a known issue]] for visited links in navbox titles. There is a proposed fix. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::''' Reply '''- Good to know.  Can't wait to hear more about it. --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 22:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
:: I don't edit templates, generally, but even when I edit regular pages after hours (when the site changes colours), I now have that white edit window with light-coloured text, rendering everything essentially unreadable.  I've been eschewing editing when the site is dark (or, like right now, typing in a plain-text program and copying/pasting), thinking surely this is a widespread problem and will be fixed quickly, but maybe it's only tied to what you're discussing, here?  You linked to a discussion about templates and navboxes; will that proposed fix also affect all white-background editing issues, too?  —  '''[[user:Fourthords|<span style="color:#c00">Fourthords</span>]] &#124; [[user talk:Fourthords|=Λ=]] &#124;''' 02:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
:: FWIW Jonesey95, I no longer have light text on a white edit-window, but it's now changed to dark-grey text on a black edit-window.  Different, but equally unreadible.  This was as of yesterday evening; I'll check again ronight and update if anything else's changed.  —  '''[[user:Fourthords|<span style="color:#c00">Fourthords</span>]] &#124; [[user talk:Fourthords|=Λ=]] &#124;''' 16:45, 4 August 2024 (UTC)  P.S. Confirming this state of affairs remains upon this evenings palette switch.  —  '''[[user:Fourthords|<span style="color:#c00">Fourthords</span>]] &#124; [[user talk:Fourthords|=Λ=]] &#124;''' 01:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:''' Reply '''- The issue is fixed when I am logged in to my home computer.  However, when I am in dark mode on a public computer, the title of a music navbox is very dark grey. --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 12:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
{{clear}}

==Unicode direction weirdness==
With [[Baghdad Conservatory]] in my Firefox edit the start of the line is left of the edit box. Previously this resulted in someone adding an extra "T" to yield "TThe". But now the "The" looks like "he" in the edit box. Somewhere in the Arabic text there is a left to right unicode direction indicator as I can tell by trying to add spaces to it. How can we find and remove such characters? And is that character messing up the edit box? [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 22:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
: It looks fine in my Firefox (128.0.3), with Monobook, Vector, or Vector2022, in the [[mw:Editor|"2010 editor"]], with and without <code>&safemode=true</code> added to the URL. I don't see any LRM or similar characters in that article. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 13:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:: After seeing the discussion linked below, which mentions that it happens when the line starting with LTR text wraps within some RTL text, I was able to reproduce. I can reproduce in a plain textarea locally, so it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Wikipedia specifically. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 17:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:
:This is one of the reasons that the cs1|2 templates support {{para|script-title}}.  Try this:
<div style="overflow:scroll;">
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{cite news |script-title=ar:الراحل حنّا بطرس جزء من تاريخ الموسيقى في العهد الملكي |url=http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |accessdate=31 July 2011 |newspaper=Addustour |date=28 September 2010 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20120328094702/http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |archivedate=28 March 2012}}</syntaxhighlight>
:::{{cite news |script-title=ar:الراحل حنّا بطرس جزء من تاريخ الموسيقى في العهد الملكي |url=http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |accessdate=31 July 2011 |newspaper=Addustour |date=28 September 2010 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20120328094702/http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |archivedate=28 March 2012}}
:{{para|script-title}} causes cs1|2 to wrap the title in {{tag|bdi}} (bidirectional isolate) tags:
::{{code|lang=html|{{cite news |script-title=ar:الراحل حنّا بطرس جزء من تاريخ الموسيقى في العهد الملكي |url=http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |accessdate=31 July 2011 |newspaper=Addustour |date=28 September 2010 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20120328094702/http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/604/ArticleID/31615/reftab/123/Default.aspx |archivedate=28 March 2012}}}}
</div>
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:Previous discussion (July 2023) at {{sectionlink|Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 206|RTL scripts sometimes left-shifting lines displayed in editing environment (browser dependent)}}. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 16:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:Browsers automatically display text in some scripts as right to left. This can cause different issues and confusion when editing. If you cannot read those scripts anyway then you may prefer to display them left-to-right with code like this in {{yourcss}}:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
textarea {
  direction: ltr;
  unicode-bidi: bidi-override;
}
</syntaxhighlight>
:It doesn't affect what you save so you're not going to damage the pages but may be less likely to do something wrong. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 15:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

== Dark mode for pure-HTML table templates ==
[[Template:Hsl-swatches]] and [[Template:Hsv-swatches]] use the pure HTML table format and needs to be adapted so that they display correctly in dark mode. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 04:03, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

:Fixed by Jonesey. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

== WikiProject templates category redirect mess ==

Something is suddenly causing various templates associated with WikiProjects to populate category redirects. Part of the problem is rooted in the template and category names not matching.

Populated redirects include: [[:Category:WikiProject Belgrade]], [[:Category:WikiProject Doctor Who templates]], [[:Category:WikiProject Magazines templates]] and [[:Category:WikiProject Portals templates]].

Is anyone able to identify what change has caused these to suddenly populate and fix it? Thanks in advance. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 10:40, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
: Based on timestamps things were added to the category, the first three look like they're due to [[Special:Diff/1238812083]]. The last seems to have been done manually: [[Special:Diff/1238918898]], [[Special:Diff/1163203429/1238919315]], [[Special:Diff/1238919052]], and [[Special:Diff/1238918849]]. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 12:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

== Gadget to view section sizes ==

Is there a way to view a page's section sizes without having to add {{template link|Section sizes}}? '''''[[User:A diehard editor|A diehard editor]]''''' ([[User talk:A diehard editor|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/A diehard editor|edits]]) 13:10, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

:Not aware of a way to see it all at once, but you can use [[Wikipedia:Prosesize]] on the edit preview screen when looking at a particular section. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:34, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

== Cite button in Visual Editor is broken ==

I'm getting 404 errors from the API in the console, don't have time to investigate further. [[User:RAN1|RAN1]] ([[User talk:RAN1|talk]]) 03:22, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

:It works for me (trying to cite "https://www.example.com"). What inputs cause the problem for you? [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 08:59, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
::Works for me now too. The API endpoint was responding with 404s when I was trying to cite apnews.com, it looked like it went down. [[User:RAN1|RAN1]] ([[User talk:RAN1|talk]]) 14:43, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2024-32 ==

<section begin="technews-2024-W32"/><div class="plainlinks">
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/32|Translations]] are available.

'''Feature news'''
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] Two new parser functions will be available this week: <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Magic_words#dir|#dir]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Magic_words#bcp47|#bcp47]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>. These will reduce the need for <code>Template:Dir</code> and <code>Template:BCP47</code> on Commons and allow us to [[phab:T343131|drop 100 million rows]] from the "what links here" database. Editors at any wiki that use these templates, can help by replacing the templates with these new functions. The templates at Commons will be updated during the Hackathon at Wikimania. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T359761][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T366623]
* Communities can request the activation of the visual editor on entire namespaces where discussions sometimes happen (for instance ''Wikipedia:'' or ''Wikisource:'' namespaces) if they understand the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:VisualEditor/FAQ#WPNS|known limitations]]. For discussions, users can already use [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:DiscussionTools|DiscussionTools]] in these namespaces.
* The tracking category "Pages using Timeline" has been renamed to "Pages using the EasyTimeline extension" [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3ATimeline-tracking-category&namespace=8 in TranslateWiki]. Wikis that have created the category locally should rename their local creation to match.

'''Project updates'''
* Editors who help to organize WikiProjects and similar on-wiki collaborations, are invited to share ideas and examples of successful collaborations with the Campaigns and Programs teams. You can fill out [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Campaigns/WikiProjects|a brief survey]] or share your thoughts [[m:Talk:Campaigns/WikiProjects|on the talkpage]]. The teams are particularly looking for details about successful collaborations on non-English wikis.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The new parser is being rolled out on {{int:project-localized-name-group-wikivoyage}} wikis over the next few months. The {{int:project-localized-name-enwikivoyage}} and {{int:project-localized-name-hewikivoyage}} were [[phab:T365367|switched]] to Parsoid last week. For more information, see [[mw:Parsoid/Parser_Unification|Parsoid/Parser Unification]].

'''Learn more'''
* There will be more than 200 sessions at Wikimania this week. Here is a summary of some of the [[diffblog:2024/08/05/interested-in-product-and-tech-here-are-some-wikimania-sessions-you-dont-want-to-miss/|key sessions related to the product and technology area]].
* The latest [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/07-02|Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin]] is available.
* The latest quarterly [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Language and Product Localization/Newsletter/2024/July|Language and Internationalization newsletter]] is available. It includes: New design previews for Translatable pages; Updates about MinT for Wiki Readers; the release of Translation dumps; and more.
* The latest quarterly [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Growth/Newsletters/31|Growth newsletter]] is available.
* The latest monthly [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/MediaWiki Product Insights/Reports/July 2024|MediaWiki Product Insights newsletter]] is available.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/32|Translate]]&nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
</div><section end="technews-2024-W32"/>

<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]</bdi> 20:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&oldid=27233905 -->
:[[c:Template:Dir]] and [[c:Template:BCP47]]. I don't think I've ever used them. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:16, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::They're templates used by templates. Almost every file description page uses them indirectly when marking up the languages of file descriptions, for example. Probably many other translateable templates do as well. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 09:01, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
::Only templates that deal with multiple languages are likely to use these. Often as part of other templates. These are typical cases of templates that are used the most without people ever realizing they exist ;) —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:28, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

== User Scripts and Template Substitution ==

I have a minor issue that I need some assistance with. I used to have two scripts that would help with some non-admin closures and archives. I believe the scripts were Discussion closer and manual-archiver. I have been inactive for some time, but, when I checked today -- neither of them seem to be working. In the past I would find two links on the right hand side of a discussion "Archive" and "Close". I would use them to do some amount of non-admin closures to clear the backlog at [[WT:ITN]]. Did something change with these scripts? Am I doing something wrong?

Also, unrelated, at [[User:Ktin]] I see that the template substitution seems to be failing on most of the templates. Is that because there is a limit on the number of templates on an user page? This is obviously a minor issue. But was generally curious. Thanks. [[User:Ktin|Ktin]] ([[User talk:Ktin|talk]]) 00:36, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Ktin]] is in [[:Category:Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded]]. This causes attempted transclusions to just become template links when the limit is broken. It varies greatly how costly templates are. The main cause in your case is the 31 {{tl|Get short description}}. For example, <code><nowiki>{{Get short description |2023 Indian Premier League final}}</nowiki></code> uses 9% of the 2 MB limit. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 13:05, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::Without those 31 {{tl|Get short description}}, the whole page would only use 3% of the limit instead of breaking it. You import [[User talk:DannyS712/DiscussionCloser]] in [[User:Ktin/common.js]]. See [[User talk:DannyS712/DiscussionCloser#Patched version]] (I haven't tried it). You also load [[User:Evad37/OneClickArchiver]]. [[Wikipedia:One click archiving]] says it's no longer recommended and suggests other scripts. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 13:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks a lot, PrimeHunter. The template evaluation workload makes sense. Appreciate you helping me get to the bottom of that. Will try updating that and the scripts over the weekend. Have a nice one! [[User:Ktin|Ktin]] ([[User talk:Ktin|talk]]) 15:23, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, it transcludes and recursively transcludes the target page. You might want to use something like {{t|Annotated link}} for better performance, though I'm not sure if that will help with the PEI limit.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1723032632804:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC)</span>

== Editing problem ==

Hi. For about four days I have been unable to edit articles. When I click on either the edit tab at the top of a page or the section edit tags to the right of section headings, an edit box appears to open, but a blue progress bar appears at the top which stops about three-quarters of the way across the page. As a result, I have an edit box where I can work, but no way to save my changes. Exceptions that do work are: 1. on pages like this one, the tab at the top that opens a new section; 2. clicking on "reply" on a talk page; and 3. clicking on "undo" in an article history. Those open functional edit boxes (hence I can write this). But regular editing is effectively blocked. Does anyone have an idea what the problem might be? (Incidentally, for the last year I have successfully been using the 2017 wikitext editor. I don't know if that is the problem, but I can't find any way to access it to switch it off.) [[User:Doric Loon|Doric Loon]] ([[User talk:Doric Loon|talk]]) 00:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

:The blue progress bar you describe is probably the loading animation for the Visual Editor. In [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing|your Preferences]] you can uncheck the checkbox named "Enable the visual editor". Then Save the changes with the Save button near the bottom of the page.

:Exception 2 is probably the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project/Feature_summary Discussion Tools] feature.

:I am not sure what could cause this problem, and I never use the Visual Editor. Programmers often, but not always, put error messages in the Javascript console when something goes wrong. Depending on which browser you have you could try pressing F12 to open the Developer tools, and then clicking on "Console" and then loading a webpage with the Visual Editor enabled (which will fail) to see if it generates any error messages. If there are any error messages this may be useful to whoever tries to diagnose the problem. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:What browser/operating system are you using? What versions? What happens when you click [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Izno/Sandbox?veaction=edit&safemode=1 this edit link]? [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 15:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::OK, I seem to have solved it by unclicking "Use the wikitext mode inside the visual editor, instead of a different wikitext editor This is sometimes called the '2017 wikitext editor'" in Preferences. Perhaps this plug-in is no longer working. Shame, I did find it helpful, how it marked coding in different colours. Anyway, problem solved, thanks. [[User:Doric Loon|Doric Loon]] ([[User talk:Doric Loon|talk]]) 15:56, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The 2010 wikitext editor also can use highlighting, see the marker icon in the middle of the editing bar. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 15:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

== CT scan viewer gadget, part 2 ==

{{u|Doc James}} talked to me at a conference and asked me to look into installing [[MediaWiki:Gadget-ImageStackPopup.js]] as a default gadget. It looks like this one is pretty much ready. The last discussion on it was at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 213#New Gadget for viewing CT images]], and it looks like all recent suggestions by folks such as {{u|TheDJ}} and {{u|DMacks}} were implemented and this can move forward. At some point {{u|Xaosflux}} also set this up as a gadget in the "test" category.

It sounds like the next step is to set this up to be a default gadget, and we should work out the details for that. In one discussion, {{u|MusikAnimal}} also suggested that this gadget only be loaded for pages that need it, and that this could be done using categories.

With these parameters in mind, is this how we should set up the [[MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition]]? Is everyone OK with moving forward?

<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">== template-gadgets ==
* ImageStackPopup [ ResourceLoader | default | categories = Pages using gadget ImageStackPopup ] | ImageStackPopup.js | ImageStackPopup.css</syntaxhighlight>

Thanks. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 13:44, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

:I'm ok with it. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 13:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:Seems like it has been fairly stable? I've created the trigger category using the same naming convention as the others ([[:Category:Pages using gadget ImageStackPopup]]) - which will need to get populated to pages where this will need to run. That is likely best done via some template. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::Prior discussion was that perhaps these should be un-opt-out-able (i.e. hidden gadgets), primarily to not pollute the gadget list. I'm not sure that is needed though, and could always be revisited after this goes live. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::So barring any objections, the next steps are: update the pages to somehow include the category; move the gadget from test to template-gadgets with updated parameters. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:07, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Using a consistent template-gadget category naming convention isn't strictly ''necessary'' but I think it has benefits (in this case, just change the included trigger category, or add an additional cat, in [[Template:ImageStackPopup]]). — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:13, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Sure. I've changed the tracking category to [[:Category:Pages using gadget ImageStackPopup]] in {{t|ImageStackPopup}}, and I've updated the proposed gadget-definition code above. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 20:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
*{{done}} {{ping|Novem Linguae}} I've promoted this from test to template-gadget; please validate and ping me if any issues. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:29, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

== RFPPI's automatic section title ==

I am unsure which talk page is the intended place to ask for this since most redirect to [[WT:RFPP]] (which, if it was the intended place, is protected), but is there any way to change the form (the Request protection button), so that it does [[Special:Diff/1239355033|this]] automatically? &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80A6:D301:A87F:DCFA:9F20:147|2804:F1...20:147]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80A6:D301:A87F:DCFA:9F20:147|talk]]) 20:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:The above is saying that the "Request protection" button at [[Wikipedia:Requests for page protection]] should insert a colon in front of the title if that title is for a Category (so the result is a link to the category rather than something which puts the page in the category). That is above my pay grade but might involve <code>?withJS=MediaWiki:Request-page-protection-form.js</code> at [[MediaWiki:Request-page-protection-form.js]]. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 00:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, reading the code it seems that the formatted text comes from the <code>template</code> values in [[Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Forms-configuration.json]].
::Is there any side effect to just adding the colon in the section titles there? It seems like that's what the pagelinks template already does (and many others).
::I won't request an edit there because I already started this, and because I'm not sure if it's that easy. Thanks for this info. &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80A6:D301:A87F:DCFA:9F20:147|2804:F1...20:147]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80A6:D301:A87F:DCFA:9F20:147|talk]]) 03:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Just to be clear, that is my question (and if yes, my suggestion) now. Does simply doing this change at the aforementioned JSON work for fixing this?:
:::{{stringdiff|1==== [[$title]] ===|2==== [[:$title]] ===}}
:::&ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80A6:D301:3936:BB22:D392:7B79|2804:F1...92:7B79]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80A6:D301:3936:BB22:D392:7B79|talk]]) 16:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

== Template:Efn ==
{{anchor|Cite versus Parsoid for Template:Efn}}
{{tracked|T371839}}
[[Template:Efn]] used with basic parameters would usually be displayed as <sup>[a][b]</sup> etc. But, in the recent days it's being displayed as <sup>[lower-alpha 1][lower-alpha 2]</sup> etc. Why is it? <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 01:20, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:Where? -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 05:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::Any page I see using it. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 05:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{wfm}} Specific examples please. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 06:47, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::[[Windows 10 version history]], [[Windows 11 version history]]
::::'''Screenshots''': [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OCGQEP0q7x8XjKL3vlnvlDY5x5_Tq4oH&usp=drive_fs], [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ODNMjHhVZ2LQ0Ci0jFq7PO2U55b9lnFj&usp=drive_fs] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 06:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::"Rendered with Parsoid", as above ([[#Start a discussion notice on Talk pages]]) to your earlier question. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 07:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Why is the Parsoid causing these problems and it isn't discussed anywhere on en-WP?? <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 07:42, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:Vestrian24Bio|Vestrian24Bio]], because most people don't use Parsoid, so some templates break with it.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1722846825682:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 08:33, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
:::::Neither [[Windows 10 version history]] nor [[Windows 11 version history]] uses {{tlx|efn}}, please supply examples where {{tlx|efn}} is actually used and is a definite factor in the perceived problem. Also, your screenshots are unusable, as I can't find whatever it is I'm supposed to be looking for. Please follow the directions at [[WP:WPSHOT]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::: The section [[Windows 10 version history#Channels]] transcludes {{tl|Windows 10 versions}} which uses efn. I can see the <sup>[lower-alpha 1][lower-alpha 2]</sup> as described in the screenshot and the list then is a,b, etc. Could the transclusion interfere with the correct behaviour of efn? &nbsp;—&nbsp;<span style="white-space: nowrap;font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]]  &#124;[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]]&nbsp;</span> 14:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I can see the problem on any page listed [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Efn&hidelinks=1&hidetrans=0 here]. So, I took screenshots of 3 random pages:
::::::::* [[Aristotle]] {{en dash}} Lead paragraph with <sup>[upper-alpha 1]</sup>; [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OFBvKJuEPuNvaGXDaZCI2b78TVGQHNUe&usp=drive_fs Screenshot]
::::::::* [[ASCII]] {{en dash}} [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OFEzU9CsHVx_20b13RdB3-IqWn4GsLeA&usp=drive_fs Screenshot]
::::::::* [[Apple Inc.]] {{en dash}} [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OGVyvzMyFiJCdxRc1oeZ-7B9oXbKaMZh&usp=drive_fs Screenshot]
::::::::<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 15:44, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::I see no problem with any of these articles, logged-in or logged-out. If no problem is apparent when logged-out, but you have a problem when logged-in, that tells me that there's something unusual about your custom settings. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::"Rendered with Parsoid" as said [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#c-Michael Bednarek-20240805073900-Vestrian24Bio-20240805065600|above]]. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 17:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::I don't see how that happens. According to [[mw:Parsoid]], it's something to do with converting Wikitext to HTML. So, as all of our pages are written using Wikitext, and all of our readers are served HTML, the conversion process should be the same for everybody, and Parsoid must be that process. So why do I get something different from Vestrian24Bio? Has one of us turned off Parsoid, and if so, how and why? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:21, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::It's not the default wikitext parser.  If you opt into it at the bottom of [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]], you should see the [lower-alpha 1] misparse, too; I do, at least. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 20:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:There is ongoing work in this area. I will file a bug. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Looks like [[Special:PermaLink/1234747826#L-89--L-111|the CSS]] for [[phab:T156351]] (that Parsoid requires rather than using [[MediaWiki:Cite link label group-lower-alpha]]) needs updating after [[gerrit:q/Ieff73769f8ebbc3724f6a9b498487c4e7d09aa2e|Ieff73769]], probably from <syntaxhighlight lang="css" inline>.mw-ref > a[data-mw-group=lower-alpha]::after</syntaxhighlight> to <syntaxhighlight lang="css" inline>.mw-ref > a[style~="mw-Ref"][data-mw-group=lower-alpha]::after</syntaxhighlight> (and the same for the other groups). [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 00:50, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, that would fix it, just a specificity issue it looks like. And the change looks deliberate, but 1) I'm not sure the impact was considered, and 2) I'm not sure that <code>[style~="mw-Ref"]</code> particularly is a nice selector for sundry reasons. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=prev&oldid=1239516284 made] Anomie's change as a for-now solution while we wait for whatever is being hacked on by WMDE. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:54, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

== Getting Cite errors and CS1/CS2 errors for an article via the API ==

I want to get information about [[Help:Cite_errors|Cite errors]] and [[Help:CS1_errors|CS1/2 errors]] via the API. The input should be the title of a Wikipedia article and the output should be either a list of cite errors or a list of CS1/2 errors (or a combination).

The articles are in [[:Category:Pages with citation errors]] and [[:Category:CS1 errors]]. There doesn't appear to be a separate category for CS2 errors.

===CS1/CS2===
If I add <nowiki>{{citation |first=bar |title=foo}}</nowiki> to my userpage I see:

<span style="color:red;">foo {{tl|citation}}: |first= missing |last= ([[Help:CS1_errors#parameter_ignored|help]])</span>

On [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=parse&format=json&page=Cloudburst&prop=parsewarnings%7Cparsewarningshtml&formatversion=2 this article] I can see that the API reports that there is a CS1 error, but not what the actual problem is. I have added the CSS found [[Help:CS1_errors#Error_and_maintenance_messages|here]] so I can see the specific CS1 error when viewing the article in my browser. But how can I get this information via the API? It looks to me like [[:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration]] generates the error messages; does the fact that the error is generated by this Lua script mean I can't get this information via the API? Or do I have to get the rendered page to get the actual HTML and search that for error messages?

Is it possible to detect (via the API) if an edit causes a CS1/CS2 error before actually making the edit?
:There are roundabout ways, but otherwise, the answer to {{tq|does the fact that the error is generated by this Lua script mean I can't get this information via the API}} is yes. Each error emits a category but you will only know which categories go with which citations by using something like the [[mw:API:Expandtemplates]] on the source wikitext. If you don't care about knowing which templates have which issues, you can use the [[mw:API:Categories|categories API]]. Another solution is to get the HTML and then search for the relevant classes with e.g. [[mw:API:REST API]] though I think there are other APIs one could use (even ignoring screen scraping).
: {{tq|Is it possible to detect (via the API) if an edit causes a CS1/CS2 error before actually making the edit? }} Only with something like the above. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:27, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

===Cite error===
On [[Brainwashing]] I see a cite error on ref 87: <span style="color:red;">Cite error: The named reference they-never-said-it was invoked but never defined (see the [[Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_references_no_text|help page]]).</span> Which API call should I make to get this information? I assumed it was [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/api.php?action=query&format=json&list=linterrors&formatversion=2&lntlimit=500&lnttitle=Bibliometrics this] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=query&format=json&list=linterrors&formatversion=2&lntlimit=500&lnttitle=Bibliometrics Sandbox)].

Is this also handled by a Lua script somewhere? What is the URL? It looks like its using [[:MediaWiki:Cite error references no text]] but I can't seem to find a Lua module referencing that. Is it in a MediaWiki extension written in PHP?

Do I have to get the rendered page to get the actual HTML and search that for error messages?

How would I detect (via the API) if an edit causes a cite error before actually making the edit?

It looks like I am at least able to find errors before they happen with [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=parse&format=json&text=%3Cref%20name%3D%22nix%22%3Eaaa%3C%2Fref%3E%3Cref%20name%3D%22naix%22%20%2F%3E&prop=categories%7Cparsewarnings&contentmodel=wikitext&formatversion=2 action=parse], but those are warnings from the parser, not the Lua script(s). Is that correct?

:These errors originate from [[mw:Extension:Cite]]. You can explore the documentation there, but I do not think there is anything to indicate errors in an API. Besides whatever categories are emitted, as discussed above, but that would not tell you which references caused an error I believe. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

===Bot===
Which bot, if any, is running on [[:Category:Pages with broken reference names]] to find the most recent revision that contains that refname so it can be restored? Shouldn't be too hard to write, right? Can the [[User:InternetArchiveBot|InternetArchiveBot]] do that?

[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 23:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

:{{noping|AnomieBOT}}. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:19, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Izno}} Thanks a lot! This is a con of the Lua stuff, but there are a lot of pros. Lots of food for thought. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 05:55, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

== In Javascript, insert template in correct place (after hatnotes) ==

According to [[MOS:ORDER]], [[User:Polygnotus/DuplicateReferences|DuplicateReferences]] has to insert maintenance templates at the correct place in the article (''6. Maintenance, cleanup, and dispute tags''). Is there a trick to ensure that the template {{tl|Duplicated citations}} is inserted at the correct location? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:14, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The obvious method is to make a long list of all the templates, and all redirect to those templates (and filter out those that are not used in mainspace), that should appear above the maintenance templates. But that quickly turns into a giant list and a lot of work. Isn't there a smarter way to do this? Is there some kind of Javascript library I can import? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 16:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

:Figured it out (somewhat) by <s>stealing</s> getting inspiration from Twinkle's code. [https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wisdom_of_the_ancients.png] which uses morebits [https://github.com/wikimedia-gadgets/twinkle/wiki/morebits#Morebits.wikitext.page+insertAfterTemplates]

:{{collapse top|regexes}}
const shortDescriptionRegex = /\{\{\s*short description\s*\|[^}]+\}\}/i;
const displayTitleRegex = /\{\{\s*(DISPLAYTITLE|Lowercase title|Italic title)\s*(\|[^}]+)?\}\}/i;
const hatnoteRegex = /\{\{\s*(hatnote|main|correct title|dablink|distinguish|for|further|selfref|year dab|similar names|highway detail hatnote|broader|about|other uses?|redirect|see)\s*(\|[^}]+)?\}\}/i;
const articleStatusRegex = /\{\{\s*(Featured list|Featured article|Good article)\s*\}\}/i;
const deletionProtectionRegex = /\{\{\s*(db|delete|prod|proposed deletion|ArticleForDeletion|AfDM|pp|protected)\s*(\|[^}]+)?\}\}/i;
{{collapse bottom}}

:[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 05:59, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

== Excessive "link added" notices ==

When a link to an article someone has created is added to a navbox, and someone subsequently edits any page in such navbox, regardless of the content of that edit, the user who created said article which was added to the navbox gets a notice that a "link was added" to that article, when that is not the case. I'm guessing the reason as to why mediawiki doesn't "register" that a link was added to a navbox in each transclusion of it has to do with the page not being purged until the next edit is made to it, but is there a way this can be fixed for link added notices? I'm aware one could just turn these off, but it does nevertheless seem like a bug. [[User:Flemmish Nietzsche|Flemmish Nietzsche]] ([[User talk:Flemmish Nietzsche|talk]]) 08:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Not currently. From the perspective of Mediawiki, there is no difference between a link included in a page vs included via a templat, or rather what u describe a specific subset of templates. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:15, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::I'm having a similar problem; I got two notifications earlier today,
::# A link was made from '''‪2027 Cricket World Cup qualification'''‬ to ‪'''2027 Cricket World Cup Qualifier Play-off‬'''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2027_Cricket_World_Cup_qualification&oldid=prev&diff=1239443556]
::# A link was made from '''‪2027 Cricket World Cup Qualifier'''‬ to '''‪2027 Cricket World Cup Qualifier Play-off'''‬. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2027_Cricket_World_Cup_Qualifier&oldid=prev&diff=1239442046]
::I got these notifications because I created [[2027 Cricket World Cup Qualifier Play-off‬]], but I don't have any of these pages on my watchlist or subscriptions.
::I'm also confused because whenever a new notification arrives its also sent as a mail notification (only to those who preferred it). But, no mail notification is received when "A link was made" notification arrives... <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 10:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::These are settings per notification type, in your preferences, in the notifications section. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[Warburg Institute]] italic title ==

Can someone take a look at the [[Warburg Institute]] article? The title is being italicized (when it should not be); it uses {{tl|infobox journal}} later in the article, which auto-italicizes, but it's set to "no" as the template says so presumably this should not be happening. '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 01:35, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

:{{re|Aza24}} I removed the underscore in the "italic title" infobox parameter and it looks like that was the issue. [[User:DanCherek|DanCherek]] ([[User talk:DanCherek|talk]]) 01:44, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::Oh, strange—Thanks! '''<span style="font-family:Lucida;">[[User:Aza24|<span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span>]][[User talk:Aza24|<span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span>]]</span>''' 01:45, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

== Using Twinkle to tag articles ==

I apologise if this has been asked already. 

I have noticed a problem with accessing all of the tag options when using Twinkle.
I switch between mobile to desktop when I need to use Twinkle, in most instances the full drop down menu is fine, I can scroll up or down to find the correct message I need. When trying to add a welcome message for new users the scroll doesn't work though. I can only access the initial few welcome messages but that's it.
I also have the same problem with tagging articles in the mainspace. I've found an article published to the mainspace and it doesn't have any references. I wanted to tag it as such but I am unable to scroll down the menu to the correct option. 

Most of the Twinkle options are fine, such as CSD, I can scroll down to view all the options. It seems to be a problem with Welcome messages and article tagging. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks in advance, [[User:Knitsey|Knitsey]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|talk]]) 15:42, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

:What OS/browser are you using? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 20:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
::Hi Nardog, Google chrome. Is that what you mean? [[User:Knitsey|Knitsey]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|talk]]) 20:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Google Chrome is your browser. "OS" is short for [[Operating System]] which is [[Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers|most likely]] [[Microsoft Windows]] (other options are [[Linux]] and [[Mac OS]]). [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Polygnotus, I completely missed the OS bit! Android, version 14 if that makes a difference. The scroll down options always used to work. I've been on a Wikipedia break for about 8 months, come back and those two sections no longer scroll. [[User:Knitsey|Knitsey]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|talk]]) 02:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::So you're on a mobile device or tablet? And nothing happens even if you swipe down? Is the desktop mode on? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 02:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I use my mobile. Switch to desktop to use Twinkle. It is just those two menus that I can't scroll down... Welcome messages for new users and the tag menu on articles.
::::::The Twinkle menu for vandalism warnings is fine, I can scroll down on that. The same for CSD, I can scroll down on that too. 
::::::With Welcome messages, I can always go back to using templates for now. I'm just curious as to why those two drop downs and whether it cwn be fixed. [[User:Knitsey|Knitsey]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|talk]]) 03:01, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::By the desktop mode I mean the "Desktop site" in the Chrome menu. Is it checked? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 03:32, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not sure what you mean? I go to the bottom of the Wikipedia page and click desktop view. [[User:Knitsey|Knitsey]] ([[User talk:Knitsey|talk]]) 03:43, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/List]] ==

Some of the entries are referring to historic/stale accounts. It's hard to gauge. I was thinking add a column, "Page last edited". Is this information available somehow, '''given the name of a page, return the date of last edit?''' It's not a perfect solution but some information is better than none, recent activity will be more visible. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 04:19, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:I believe it is [[mw:API:Revisions]]: [https://www.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/api.php?action=query&prop=revisions&titles=Wikipedia:Long-term%20abuse/List&rvlimit=1&rvprop=timestamp example]. In my limited experience, it can foul up if strange things occur. I forget exactly what but it was something like the user had been renamed, or maybe a revision deletion? [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 05:59, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{replyto|GreenC}} {{tq|given the name of a page, return the date of last edit}} - yes, see [[Help:Magic words#Page revision data]]. Let's assume that the LTA habitually targets pages in {{cl|Civil parishes in Oxfordshire}}. We might have this partial list:
::*[[List of civil parishes in Oxfordshire]] {{REVISIONUSER:List of civil parishes in Oxfordshire}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:List of civil parishes in Oxfordshire}}
::*[[Abingdon-on-Thames]] {{REVISIONUSER:Abingdon-on-Thames}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Abingdon-on-Thames}}
::*[[Adderbury]] {{REVISIONUSER:Adderbury}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Adderbury}}
::*[[Adwell]] {{REVISIONUSER:Adwell}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Adwell}}
::*[[Alvescot]] {{REVISIONUSER:Alvescot}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Alvescot}}
::*[[Ambrosden]] {{REVISIONUSER:Ambrosden}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Ambrosden}}
::*[[Appleford-on-Thames]] {{REVISIONUSER:Appleford-on-Thames}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Appleford-on-Thames}}
::*[[Appleton-with-Eaton]] {{REVISIONUSER:Appleton-with-Eaton}} {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP:Appleton-with-Eaton}}
::--[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 09:51, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::[[User:Redrose64]]: Thanks! [[Special:Diff/1239727454/1239797852]] .. surprisingly most are recent 2024-2024. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 16:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

== Enabling mw-no-invert in navbox headers ==

I cannot seem to use the <code>titleclass</code> parameter in {{tl|Navbox}} to ensure that the headers of [[Template:Shades of color]] navboxes are preserved in dark mode. A {{t|colored link}} instance in the header will also need to have noinvert enabled using the new parameter <code>noinvert=yes</code>. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 04:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

== Tool limits on mobile version ==
{{moved from|Wikipedia talk:Village pump}}
What's the technical or by design reason for the limitations of the editing tools on the mobile version? Many of the tools that you can add through code particularly don't seem to show up in any form in the mobile format. Is there any features pipeline to introducing this functionality? [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 10:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

:Countervandalism, Twinkle and a few other tools work recently on mobile. I would recommend making a wish entry at [[:Meta:Community Wishlist/Wishes]]. In short I agree that mobile lags behind desktop which is concerning considering the future of editors is mobile. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 12:18, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:In large degree this is due to having to make very conscious decisions about where to provide such options, as space per page is limited. As very few people think about this, there is also very little progress on it. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:02, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

== Search error with <𐀍> ==

FYI, if I search for Linear B <𐀍> on a page, I get a hit for all ASCII spaces. [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 00:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:How are you searching? If you search a viewed page with a browser menu or a shortcut like {{keypress|Ctrl|f}} then you are using a browser feature and not a MediaWiki feature. The browser will determine what happens. I get the same result in Firefox. If you search a source edit box with the magnifying glass icon to the far right after clicking "Advanced" in the default toolbar then it's a MediaWiki feature. It works for me, e.g. when editing [[Linear B]]. There are also other tools which can make searches. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. Something screwy with Firefox then. [[User:Kwamikagami|— kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 01:35, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Can confirm, it's a bug in Firefox. And checkbox "Match Diacritics" doesn't help (it usually does). —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 12:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

== Delay in global lock on account ==

[[Special:Contributions/𝕲𝕵𝕺𝕭𝕬𝕵_𝕺𝕽𝕯𝕰𝕶_𝕺𝕱_𝕾𝕬𝕿𝕬𝕹|𝕲𝕵𝕺𝕭𝕬𝕵 𝕺𝕽𝕯𝕰𝕶 𝕺𝕱 𝕾𝕬𝕿𝕬𝕹]]'s account is global locked, even though their name is in title blacklist for only on English Wikipedia.<ref><code>.*[^\0-\x{FFFF}].* <casesensitive> in  # Very few characters outside the [[Basic Multilingual Plane]] are useful in titles</code> on [[MediaWiki:Titleblacklist|local]]</ref> Also, why was their account even given the permission to be created, so that they can make three edits and then get globally locked? Thanks, [[User:ExclusiveEditor|<span style="background:Orange;color:White;padding:2px;">Exclusive</span><span style="background:black; color:White; padding:2px;">Editor</span>]] [[User talk:ExclusiveEditor|<sub>Notify Me!</sub>]] 16:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
{{reflist}}

:{{small|What is a "gjobaj ordek" anyway? [[User:Tamfang|—Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 06:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)}}
::{{replyto|Tamfang}} Typo for "global order", I think. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:08, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:This global account was created on another project, TBL doesn't stop autocreation. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 18:58, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2024-33 ==

<section begin="technews-2024-W33"/><div class="plainlinks">
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/33|Translations]] are available.

'''Feature news'''
* [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:AbuseFilter|AbuseFilter]] editors and maintainers can now [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:AbuseFilter/Actions#Show a CAPTCHA|make a CAPTCHA show if a filter matches an edit]]. This allows communities to quickly respond to spamming by automated bots. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T20110]
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Stewards|Stewards]] can now specify if global blocks should prevent account creation. Before [[phab:T17273|this change]] by the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product]] Team, all global blocks would prevent account creation. This will allow stewards to reduce the unintended side-effects of global blocks on IP addresses.

'''Project updates'''
* [[wikitech:Help talk:Toolforge/Toolforge standards committee#August_2024_committee_nominations|Nominations are open on Wikitech]] for new members to refresh the [[wikitech:Help:Toolforge/Toolforge standards committee|Toolforge standards committee]]. The committee oversees the Toolforge [[wikitech:Help:Toolforge/Right to fork policy|Right to fork policy]] and [[wikitech:Help:Toolforge/Abandoned tool policy|Abandoned tool policy]] among other duties. Nominations will remain open until at least 2024-08-26.
* One new wiki has been created: a {{int:project-localized-name-group-wikipedia}} in [[d:Q2880037|West Coast Bajau]] ([[w:bdr:|<code>w:bdr:</code>]]) [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T371757]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/33|Translate]]&nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
</div><section end="technews-2024-W33"/>

<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]</bdi> 23:19, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&oldid=27253654 -->

== get amount of revisions via API ==
{{tracked|T147676}}
Is there no way to get the amount of revisions of a specific page from the API (except to use the continue parameter, which could take a while)? [[List of WWE personnel‏‎]] has 58k revisions according to [[Special:MostRevisions]] and a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=query&format=json&prop=&list=allrevisions&titles=List%20of%20WWE%20personnel&formatversion=2&arvlimit=max non-bot can request 500] via the continue method so that is 116 API calls to know how many revisions there are... Or I can use the rendered [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_WWE_personnel&action=history&offset=&limit=5000 history page with limit=5000] instead of the API which would still take 12 calls (each of them taking ages). This information must be stored somewhere, right, cuz [[Special:MostRevisions]] and [[Special:FewestRevisions]] exist. The REST api gives me [https://api.wikimedia.org/wiki/Core_REST_API/Reference/Revisions/Get_page_history 20 max] so that would require 2900 calls. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 22:59, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:It's not available in an official API. In the meantime, you may use the [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/api#/Page%20API/get_PageApiArticleInfo XTools API]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 23:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::We don't deserve {{u|Nardog}}s; thank you! [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 23:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

== Strange behaviour for en embedded infobox ==

I just copy-edited the article on [[Philip Noel-Baker]], which had a separate infobox (actually the {{tl|MedalTableTop}}) with Olympic medals, which I embedded into the main infobox.

A rectangle now appears below the medals. What have I done wrong? [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 15:48, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:The answer is in the [[Template:MedalTableTop|template documentation]]: "Do not use {{tlx|MedalTableTop}} or {{tlx|MedalTop}} inside an infobox." – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:06, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::It's possible to embed a medal table in an infobox without using those templates but there were other problems. A separate medal table looks OK to me. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:26, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::If there's bad code in MedalTableTop, shouldn't that be fixed? [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 01:21, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::There isn't bad code in MedalTableTop as far as I know, you just used it wrong. It was never intended for infoboxes but for stand-alone tables. It adds a table start <code><nowiki>{|</nowiki></code> but an infobox is already a table. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|HandsomeFella}} OK, I worked it out. In {{diff|Philip Noel-Baker|prev|1239791705|this edit}}, you were trying to stuff the whole medal table into the ''caption'' of an embedded infobox, viz. the {{para|name}} parameter of the {{tlx|infobox sportsperson}}, and [https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/SPSD-html52-20210128/tabular-data.html#the-caption-element a {{tag|caption}} element] may not contain tables as descendants. Instead, you should have used the {{para|medaltemplates}} parameter, and omitted the {{tlx|MedalTableTop}}, as in <syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext>| awards           = [[Nobel Peace Prize]]
| module           = {{infobox sportsperson
| embed            = y
| name             = Philip Baker
| medaltemplates   =
{{Medal|Sport|[[Athletics (sport)|Athletics]]}}
{{Medal|Country|{{GBN}}}}
{{Medal|Competition|[[Athletics at the Summer Olympics|Olympic Games]]}}
{{Medal|Silver|[[1920 Summer Olympics|1920 Antwerp]]|[[Athletics at the 1920 Summer Olympics – Men's 1500 metres|1500 m]]}}
}}
}}

'''Philip John Noel-Baker, Baron Noel-Baker''', {{post-nominals|country=GBR|PC}} (1 November 1889 – 8 October 1982),</syntaxhighlight> This does still create a double-border situation, but the spurious empty box is gone. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::It needs <code>embed = yes</code>. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 17:41, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thanks. That fixed the problem that I mentioned below. Now my problem is that the sportsperson box ignores the name= parameter. Like so many other people, peers included, he competed under another name, so it's needed. [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 17:46, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::The main <code>name</code> parameter is for display above the infobox but that doesn't work for an embedded infobox so it's omitted there. The other name parameters can be used but the field label displays as Native name, Birth name, Full name, or Nickname. The label cannot be changed and none of them apply here. I see no good option and would just omit it. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 18:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks. But if the Native name, Birth name, Full name, and Nickname parameters are available in embedded mode, surely the Name parameter could be made available too, couldn't it? [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 19:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::It could be suggested at [[Template talk:Infobox sportsperson]]. Native name, Birth name, Full name, and Nickname are treated the same in embedded and non-embedded: As fields inside the infobox. Name is outside the box in non-embedded so it's not possible to treat it the same in embedded. It would be possible to place it inside the box instead of skipping it, or to introduce another parameter. What should the field label be? I think "Name" alone is a little confusing when the whole infobox is already named. Is there any common term like "Athlete name", "Competing as", or something? What if they competed under two names, e.g. new surname after marrying? And if the name is a variation of an already shown name then is it really necessary to show it? Your example article is called [[Philip Noel-Baker]], the infobox says "Born Philip John Baker", and you want to add "Philip Baker" to his sports career in the infobox. That seems a little redundant to me. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 02:52, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::<s>Thank you. I have tested it now (in preview), and it seems that the "sportsbox"
:::::1) does not "fill out" the main infobox – in this case infobox officeholder – to its full width, and
:::::2) aligns to the right within the main infobox.
:::::Is there any way to fix that? I found no align parameter in either infobox. In the sportsperson box, the width parameter goes to the image. The double-border situation feels like a minor problem. [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 17:43, 12 August 2024 (UTC)</s>

== Why is Wikipedia going backwards? ==
First, you removed the article title when you hover a link, now when you click a link while previewing or close a tab/window when editing there's no more warning message. Can they please be restored? [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 20:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
: Works for me. Perhaps you inadvertently altered your Preferences? Or forgot to log in, so you have only default preferences? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
: {{ping|Mathglot}} Both work for you? Can you please tell me how to enable both things that I listed? [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 20:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:: For the first, try: Appearance > Reading preferences > Enable page previews. Or, are you talking about the page url appearing in the status bar of your browser (often at the bottom border)? That would be a browser preference, I believe. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:32, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Mathglot}} The URL appears, but if an article links to "[[Page]]" then I want to see the text "Page" when I'm hovering over the link. [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 20:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Mathglot}} It worked. But how can I get the warning before I close the tab to come back? If you don't know, I hope omeone else can do it. [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 20:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:: The text when hovering rarely appears. [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 20:56, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::: {{ec}} I don't quite understand the other question, about closing a tab. It sounds like it might be a browser question, but I don't know for sure what you are seeing. Can you explain step-by-step what you are doing, using a concrete example? E.g.: 1. open the [[NameOfArticle]] article in (name of my browser) on (type of my device). 2. (do this) 3. (then do that) 4. ... . RESULTS: Expected: (what you expected to happen)  Result: (what happened instead).  Thanks, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 21:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::For some years now, Windows has had a feature where the taskbar shows icons for currently-running applications, and if you hover over one of them it shows you what is currently displayed by that application, in miniature - scaled at a ratio of approx. 6:1. 
::::The latest release of Firefox (129.0) has [https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/129.0/releasenotes/#note-790325 added] a similar feature: if you have two or more tabs open, and hover over a tab that doesn't have the current focus, it shows you what is currently in that tab - but scaled at approx. 4:1. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:45, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:If "Enable page previews" is enabled at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering]] or "Navigation popups" is enabled at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]] then you are supposed to get a preview of the page content when you hover over a link to an article. If they are both disabled then you are supposed to see the page name. Or more accurately, the html for the link has a title attribute which is the page name, and most browsers will display the title attribute when you hover over a link. Are both preview preferences disabled? If you still don't see the page name then what is your browser? [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Mathglot}} When I'm editing something, I would make a change. Before I save it, especially when I'm previewing, when I close the tab, there used to be a warning on Chrome (I'm using Chrome on Windows 10) "Leave page? Changes may not be saved" or something. That disappeared. [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 04:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::What is your setting at {{myprefs|Editing|{{int:tog-useeditwarning}}}}? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 06:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|PrimeHunter}} Enable page previews is enabled. Navigation popups is disabled. Is that's what's causing the text to not appear when hovering above a link? [[User:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|Nearly but not perfect]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m almost|talk]]) 04:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::It's a possible cause. You can just try to disable it if you want the page name but not a preview of the page content. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:57, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

== Various anomalies involving contrib history of IP-like usernames ending in -xxx ==
{{tracked|T370413}}
On a CIDR-range contribs search for [[Special:Contributions/193.133.134.0/24]], I happened to find contribs for two "IP addresses", namely:
* {{user|193.133.134.178}} – about 18 edits in 2002
* {{user|193.133.134.xxx}} – couple hundred edits, 2001–2002; but if you click that contribs link, no edits are listed
The anomalies/question:
# why is CIDR search even picking up the second one, if that's just a normal, registered username, which to my understanding, it should be? 
# Otoh, maybe it isn't, because the link [[User:193.133.134.xxx]] doesn't do what I expect, namely going to a user page or to a create-page preview, but it does neither, instead going to the Contributions page. Huh??
# Clicking the contribs link [[Special:Contributions/193.133.134.xxx]] shows an empty page, but the [[Special:Contributions/193.133.134.0/24|CIDR/24 link]] shows a couple hundred edits; wtf? Following any of the links shows they really did make early edits to those pages, such as:
#* rev. [[Special:Diff/427352463|427352463]] at [[Motorcycle]] on 15:06, 8 October 2001 (-43,537b, ok, but that anomaly I'm aware of)
#* rev. [[Special:Diff/280709|280709]] at [[Steel]] on 09:07, 1 November 2001
#* rev. [[Special:Diff/277553|277553]] at [[River]] on 11:21, 9 November 2001
# It's not just that one IP-xxx: the early history of [[Alfred Hitchcock]] shows a bunch of them: {{user|152.163.195.xxx}},  {{user|152.163.197.xxx}},  {{user|62.253.64.xxx}},  {{user|205.188.197.xxx}}, {{user|193.133.134.xxx}}, {{user|205.188.198.xxx}}, {{user|64.12.101.xxx}}, {{user|64.12.104.xxx}}.  Clicking any of the contrib links for those goes to an empty Contribs page, despite their all having at least one edit at [[Alfred Hitchcock]].
# Bonus question: that rev id for Motorcycle above has a lot more digits than I would expect for an early edit. What's up with that?
# <u> If you go to the contribs link for 193.133.134.xxx and click Search ([https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=193.133.134.xxx&namespace=all&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=50 link]) the result shows a red warning complaining about invalid username. But if you replace 'xxx' with 'yyy' and Search, it is valid.</u> <small><small>udpated to add #6; by [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 22:09, 12 August 2024 (UTC)</small></small>
What's going on here? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
: Some very old versions of the software stored IP addresses with the last octet replaced by .xxx, and the current software still recognizes them as IP addresses. I don't know why they aren't showing up in contributions, though. The reason the Motorcycle revision has so many digits is because it was manually imported in 2011.  [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 20:42, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Thanks. Either someone fixed #2 super-quick, or something else is going on, because now the red link in #2 goes to a create-page preview, as I expect, but it didn't before. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::I would guess the temporary accounts work has potentially caused a problem here. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::: That makes a lot of sense. Do you know someone from that project we could ping to solicit a comment? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 21:21, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::: Temporary accounts aren't enabled here yet, so they shouldn't be doing anything relevant. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 21:54, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::The accounts aren't, but that doesn't mean there haven't been refactorings to support them that are live. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:02, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::: Redacted addition point #6 might support that, as IP-xxx seems to be supported in some places (CIDR contribs) but not others (point 6). [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 22:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:I created [[phab:T370413|T370413]] about the inability to display contribs from addresses stored with xxx; I can't get them from the /24 range though. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 07:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:: {{re|Graham87}} Thanks. The CIDR/24 link will show, if you go to Preferences > Gadgets > Advanced, and check "Allow /16, /24 and /27 – /32 CIDR ranges on Special:Contributions forms". [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 07:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Mathglot}} Oh yeah that gadget; I used to use it but no longer do so because Wikipedia supports range contributions natively now. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 07:39, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::: So, you do see the contributions for the range, now? If not, maybe this is a case where the native support doesn't match the gadget in one circumstance? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 07:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::I did not see it before, but enabling the gadget allows it to be seen. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 08:06, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Indeed. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 12:06, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::How does that gadget work? Perhaps it is just doing a prefix search? If so, it would find 193.133.134.xxx and that would be a problem in the gadget. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 08:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

== Harv warning issues... ==

[[Reba McEntire]] has 13 "Harv warnings" in its references. (I have <nowiki>Wikipedia:User_scripts/Requests/Archive_4#HarvErrors.js</nowiki> installed.) All the warnings are coming from the multi-reference sources - Ref #205, #210, #211, #214, #216, #222, and #224. The sfn/Harvard cite system can be tricky to get the coding right...<br>
I have run into this issue before on another article and I still cannot figure out how to fix it. Could some of you technical/referencing/wikicoding wizards take a look at the article and respond <u>here</u> with what is wrong and how to fix it. I would very much appreciate learning 1) exactly what is going wrong and 2)learning (and then remembering) how to fix the issue so 3) please let me fix the problem at the Reba article myself. Thanks, [[User:Shearonink|Shearonink]] ([[User talk:Shearonink|talk]]) 16:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

:It appears to have been the asterisk (*) inside <nowiki><ref>...</ref></nowiki>. I removed the asterisks and added a line break between the two cites in one place, which cleared the problem. See the Medley citation. I didn't fix the other cases. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 17:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::That is not the correct fix.  The warning message is telling you that the citation is notlinked from an {{tlx|sfn}} or {{tld|harv}}-family template.  If you want to suppress the messages, in the cs1|2 template set {{para|ref|none}}:
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{cite web |last=... |first=... |title=... |date=... |url=... |ref=none}}</syntaxhighlight>
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 18:36, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::But why then is <nowiki>"ref=none"</nowiki> necessary for the second citation below, but not for the first?
::: *Reba in Concert {{small|(1992)}}Sources for 1992 tour:
:::<nowiki>*{{cite magazine|date=February 22, 1992|title=Reba in Concert|magazine=Billboard|volume=104|issue=8|page=31|location=Nashville, Tennessee|publisher=BPI Communications|issn=0006-2510|access-date=October 23, 2020|url=https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/90s/1992/Billboard-1992-02-22.pdf|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200808083051/https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/90s/1992/Billboard-1992-02-22.pdf|archive-date=August 8, 2020}}
:::*{{cite news |last1=Pareles |first1=Jon | title=Taking the Country Out of the Country Singer |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/26/news/review-music-taking-the-country-out-of-the-country-singer.html |newspaper=[[The New York Times]] |location=[[New York City]], [[New York (state)|New York]] |date=October 26, 1992 |access-date=October 23, 2020|archive-url=https://archive.today/20201023023153/https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/26/news/review-music-taking-the-country-out-of-the-country-singer.html |archive-date=October 23, 2020|ref=none}}</nowiki>
:::[[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 18:59, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Each cs1|2 template creates a <code>CITEREF</code> anchor id as a link target for {{tlx|sfn}} etc templates.  The anchor id is listed in the warning message, for example, the anchor id for your second example is: <code>CITEREFPareles1992</code>.  The <code>CITEREF</code> anchor id is created from author names (only the first four) and the year portion of the date.  The ''Billboard'' template does not have any authors so a <code>CITEREF</code> anchor id is not created.  The warning script is smart enough to recognize that nothing can link to a cs1|2 template that does not have a <code>CITEREF</code> anchor id.  Because there is no <code>CITEREF</code> anchor id, it is not necessary to suppress it with {{para|ref|none}}.
::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 19:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
OK. So there '''are''' fixes that will take care of the "Harv warning" issues. I'll puzzle my way through and fix stuff. But can someone again explain, as if to a non-coder - lol which I certainly *am* - 1) exactly '''why''' the bundled cites are not working as intended and 2)why this issue isn't discussed and explained ''as if to a non-coder'' in the [[Help:References and page numbers#Shortened footnotes]] & in [[Help:Shortened footnotes#Bundling citations]] & in [[Wikipedia:Citing sources#Bundling citations]]. If I've noticed - and I am certainly not one of the most prolific editors around here - at least 2 instances where the bundled citations are throwing Harv warnings then there have to be many, many more. Thanks, [[User:Shearonink|Shearonink]] ([[User talk:Shearonink|talk]]) 01:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:I mean, I've used "ref=none" quite a bit but I guess I don't understand, in these cases '''''<u>why</u>''''' it is necessary... [[User:Shearonink|Shearonink]] ([[User talk:Shearonink|talk]]) 01:47, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::Answers:
::# What do you mean by: {{tq|the bundled cites are not working as intended}}?  What about those cites is not working?  Are you claiming that they don't work because the user script is marking them with warning messages? ([[Special:Permalink/1239947140#References|this version (permalink)]] of the article)
::# Likely because these messages are only available to those editors who have included a user script in their common.js that emits such messages.  In your [[User:Shearonink/common.js|common.js]] you have installed [[User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors.js]].  That script has a [[User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors|documentation page]] (current version not authored by me so perhaps more understandable than what I might write).
::When the warning message appears, it is generally {{em|not}} necessary to do anything except to look for typos in the surnames and dates.  If <syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{sfn|Green|2024}}</syntaxhighlight> is supposed to link to <syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{cite book |last=Greene |date=2024 |title=...}}</syntaxhighlight> and these are the only pair for Green(e) 2024 you will get three messages:
:::For the sfn: {{color|#d33|sfn error: no target: CITEREFGreen2024 ([[:Category:Harv_and_Sfn_template_errors|help]])}} {{color|DarkOrange|Harv error: link from CITEREFGreen2024 doesn't point to any citation.}}
:::For the full citation: {{color|#ac6600|Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFGreene2024.}}
::All because of a simple misspelling.  When there really isn't Greene 2024 (with an 'e') short-form citation linking to a long-form citation, the script doesn't know that so it prompts editors to check.  This same applies to the date; Green 2023 will cause the script to emit the same basic messages.  If a short-form is not needed, editors can set {{para|ref|none}} to suppress the warning message.  It is not {{tq|necessary}}, but is a courtesy to editors coming after you so they don't waste their time trying to find a matching short-form citation.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:37, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

== XTools Edit Count down? ==

Since yesterday, when I bring up my Edit Count from XTools, nothing has updated in two days.  Specifically, the Actrion, Patrol figure.  On the Basic information, it says "Latest edit 	2024-08-03 03:11" which is in error.  It also lists "Latest logged action" as 2024-08-03 03:06.  Something on the stats end not working? [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 18:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:High [https://replag.toolforge.org/ replag] means that all sorts of stuff that should update will not update until the replication lag goes back to zero. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 20:42, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, there has been a high replag on both English Wikipedia and the Commons for two days now. It seems to have something to do with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T367856 this]. It's lasting longer than it was expected to take. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 00:21, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Yup. I noticed this one too, today. [[User:Ktin|Ktin]] ([[User talk:Ktin|talk]]) 00:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the input. It's been so many years since I've seen this happen, that I forgot the possibility of it. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 01:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Actually, it seems to happen fairly frequently, I'd guess monthly or every other month. It usually happens on Thursdays or Fridays. It becomes very evident if your editing relies on bot reports. They seem the most directly affected by these system lags. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::So the replication lag has reached three and a half days. Is this situation normal or has something gone wrong and needs to be attended to? Can an end date be predicted or is it indeterminate? [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 22:25, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::<s>I poked around and was unable to find a phabricator bug report, but my searching on phabricator does not work well.</s> <ins>It looks {{phab|T367856}} accounts for this outage, but there has been no communication from WMF explaining why it is taking longer than the expected 26 hours and when it might be over.</ins> Maybe there is chatter on an e-mail list.  Does anyone know if the WMF has uptime targets for their servers, including replag? With this one outage, currently at 92 hours, they will be below 99% uptime for the year. We had a [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_212#Replag|3+ hour outage in May 2024]], a [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_213#Is_AFDStats_down?|4+ hour outage in June 2024]], a [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_208#Replag_or_Thursday_issues%3F|4+ hour outage in September 2023]], and probably more. That's a good four and a half days of known downtime in the last twelve months for this valuable service. Not ideal. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 06:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::There is no guarantees for replag. It is a best effort. We are seeing a lot of this over the last 2 years because Wikimedia are doing major rearchitecting of various database tables to enable them to keep scaling, and unlike the production environment the tools environment does not have the same level of support that would allow to execute these changes without impact. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::: According to a post at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T367856 nothing is broken. A process is running that may take 6 days – or maybe longer, or maybe not so long. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 00:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::They're obviously working on [[Valve Time]] - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 07:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Hooray, we are over 168 hours (one full week)! (175 hours at this writing.) That's more than a full week of database reports being out of date. It's going to be fun to mop up over a week's worth of mess when this outage finally gets sorted. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::It's not a record. I seem to recall that about four or five years back replag hit two or perhaps three weeks. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::: Yay! Quarry queries working, up-to-date again! [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 14:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

=== AfD Statistics not updating either ===
AfD Statistics [https://afdstats.toolforge.org/afdstats.py?name=Maile66&max=&startdate=&altname= https://afdstats.toolforge.org/afdstats] has not updated since at least yesterday. I am assuming this is th same issue as replag [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 13:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

:Working again, as of this AM. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 11:33, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

=== Wikiproject Assessment tables not updating either ===
Reported at [[Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index]]. Same root cause? [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 23:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

===PetScan===
I'm assuming that [[WP:PETSCAN]] is affected by the same problem as well, because articles that I fixed a few days ago are still showing in the search results. - [[User:X201|X201]] ([[User talk:X201|talk]]) 08:05, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

== Add A Fact experimental tool from Future Audiences ==

The Future Audiences team at the foundation is launching [[meta:Future Audiences/Experiment:Add a Fact|Add A Fact]], an experimental tool for adding information to English Wikipedia from outside the website. You can download the extension from the Chrome store here: '''[https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/wikipedia-add-a-fact/kecnjhdipdihkibljeicopdcoinghmhj Add A Fact]'''. For now, an (auto)confirmed English Wikipedia account is required to submit facts with this extension. 

The idea was developed and workshopped with Wikipedians at WCNA 2023, demoed and tested with Wikipedia community members as part of our team’s regular monthly community calls.

Here is a short demo video on the extension:

[[File:Add A Fact Demo.ogg|600px]]

A quick how-to —

# While reading any secondary source on the web (a news item, a scholarly article, etc.), you can open Add A Fact and highlight a short claim that you may want to add to Wikipedia.
# An LLM will check if the selected claim is related to any existing Wikipedia articles, and will present information about whether the fact is fully, partially, or not present in these articles. You may also search for an article of your choosing.
# Once you select a Wikipedia article to add your fact to, Add A Fact will give you the option of sending a pre-filled template message to the talk page of the article, which includes the selected text, any additional comments you’d like to add, and a structured citation. This message will be signed under your Wikipedia username.
# If the URL of the source you are on appears on WP:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources, you will receive a warning message about your source’s reliability (but will still be able to add a suggested fact from this source). If the URL of the source you are on appears on the spam blocklist, you will not be able to add a suggested fact from this source.
#To limit any potential misuse/spam, Add A Fact users will be limited to sending a maximum of 10 facts per day during this early experimental period.

We've answered some common questions on our [[meta:Future_Audiences/Experiment:Add_a_Fact/FAQ|FAQ]].

Add A Fact seeks to prove or disprove a hypothesis about how we might continue to sustain and grow Wikimedia projects in a changing online knowledge landscape. In this case, we’re seeking to understand how people can make editorial contributions off-platform (that is, without going directly to Wikipedia.org), and if generative AI can support or hinder this process.

If you use the tool, please give us your thoughts anonymously via the feedback form on the extension, in this VP thread or [[User:DErenrich-WMF/Add_A_Fact_Experiment#Solicited_feedback|on my subpage]]. [[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] ([[User talk:DErenrich-WMF|talk]]) 16:09, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:No Firefox support? Why not? Which APIs are you missing? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 20:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Polygnotus}} FF doesn't support [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1573659 service workers in manifest v3] but I actually think there's a way I can work around this (looking into this today). FF support is on our radar. [[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] ([[User talk:DErenrich-WMF|talk]]) 21:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you. The tool looks interesting but I strongly dislike Chrome. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 21:20, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::If its a chrome extension then, It would work in Microsoft Edge as well. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 00:19, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::I dislike Edge even more strongly, for very similar reasons. {{smiley}} [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 00:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::: If it's a a chrome extension, it will work on [[Vivaldi (browser)|Vivaldi]], which is better than all previously mentioned browsers, imho. Another possibility is [[Opera (browser)|Opera]], which can also use the extension, but Vivaldi is better. (We can take this offline to my UTP, or yours, if you wish to go into more detail about browsers.) [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 00:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:It is unfortunate that the video demo shows someone suggesting a press release for a source on a medical topic, which would surely not pass [[WP:MEDRS]]. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 21:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::That's a good point. We tried to have the tool warn you about unacceptable sources but encoding all the nuances of the rules is hard. But doing this better is something we should look more into. [[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] ([[User talk:DErenrich-WMF|talk]]) 23:05, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Having the demo advertise a kind of edit that should never be done is hardly a "nuance". Wikipedia got a good reputation for how it handled the COVID crisis precisely because editors stuck to standards that your demo tells people to avoid. [[User:XOR&#39;easter|XOR&#39;easter]] ([[User talk:XOR&#39;easter|talk]]) 21:11, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:The message left on the talk page, will that include some template or tracking category, so that editors can easily find a list of facts to be added, and act upon them? Otherwise, especially if the facts are posted on lesser-watched talkpages, it'll be like shouting into the void. --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 06:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
::It doesn't currently use a tracking template but that's planned for the next minor release. For now you can find the relevant edits by using [https://hashtags.wmcloud.org/?query=addafact&project=en.wikipedia.org&startdate=&enddate=&search_type=or&user= hashtags] [[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] ([[User talk:DErenrich-WMF|talk]]) 17:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:Will we be able to find out how many facts posted to talk pages have been reviewed and used in articles, as opposed to rejected, and how many have not been considered at all (eg because of being on a less-watched page)? In what other ways will this tool be evaluated? For example, how might we detect an increase in, as the close of [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1160#User:Drbogdan, persistent low-quality editing, and WP:NOTSOCIALNETWORK issues]] put it, {{tq|mass-adding content based on low-quality popular science churnalism to our science articles, expecting that other editors will review it and determine whether to improve or remove it}}, leading to an indefinite community block? [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 01:56, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::Once the experiment is complete (probably in a few months) we will put together a report with our findings. See for example [[:File:EXTERNAL_Citation_Needed_Report_June_2024.pdf|the report for the last project we did]]. The metrics we're looking at are the kind of things you'd expect: number of users, number of edits, number of reverts, etc. But probably more importantly we're also collecting qualitative evidence (e.g. discussions like this one, feedback forms or by manually looking at the edits being made). [[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] ([[User talk:DErenrich-WMF|talk]]) 04:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:DErenrich-WMF|DErenrich-WMF]] Reverts aren't a meaningful metric for this tool. The tool will post on the talk page and talk page posts are rarely reverted. The only revert metric that would be useful would be the number of resulting additions to the article that are reverted, but that would be very difficult to collect.
:::Instead, a viable metric would be the proportions of talk page facts that were implemented, rejected, or not acted on. If tool postings used a format similar to {{tl|Edit semi-protected}}, this might be feasible. It would also be immediately helpful to reviewing editors.
:::It is a bit surprising that the experiment hasn't been designed to allow meaningful reporting and evaluation. Is there some need to to start the experiment regardless, or can you build suitable metrics into it before release? [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 14:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:Let's please find a way to make this tool avoid good and featured articles. The last thing we need is to be experimenting with new users and our content that has actually gone through some sort of content peer review. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 21:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:: And, more generally, there should be a way to say "we don't want add a fact here" on a specific page. This is similar to {{tl|no newcomer task}} which already exists for Growth Team edits. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 21:24, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I concur with these suggestions. [[User:XOR&#39;easter|XOR&#39;easter]] ([[User talk:XOR&#39;easter|talk]]) 21:42, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

=== Flip the script in your next project ===

Yes, that's interesting; I have it installed (on [[Vivaldi (browser)|Vivaldi]]) and will be trying it out. 

But I have a proposal for you, that imho, would be far more useful that I would like to bring to your attention. Basically, it means flipping the script on Find-A-Fact and doing it in the other direction. That is, finding an assertion on Wikipedia (possibly with the aid of the Category populated by {{tl|cn}} tags), highlighting it, opening your next extension, which goes to AI and tries to find a reliable source to verify it. (It would possibly use WikiProjects listed on the Talk page to better target its search, and would be aware of perennial sources, as well as the WP blacklist, WP mirror sites, and other helpful exclude- or include-criteria.) It would read the source(s) (up to <code>max-sources</code> maybe?) and then pop up or fill a box with the citations, optionally augmented with better wording (<code>Reword (y/n)</code>?) for the assertion that currently exists in the article. At that point, there could be two paths (<code>Talk or Article</code>?): if user wants to go the Talk page route (default) then you do something similar to what Find-a-Fact does, and compose something for the talk page. If they want to go the Article page route, then you open the article in Preview mode, add the citation(s), optionally replace the existing assertion if AI was able to compose a better one and user selected that option, and show a Diff of the new version you are proposing, along with a canned edit summary.  (Note that this flow, i.e., OpenPage-AddChanges-Preview-Diff-and-Wait, is similar to what some user scripts do currently, such as [[User:Nardog|Nardog]]'s [[User:Nardog/RefRenamer|RefRenamer]] script.) Then, user either accepts the change, optionally modifies the edit summary, and hits Publish, or they Cancel, or they go back to the extension box, altering options and checkboxes and hit Apply to try again with a different set of options.  How does that sound? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 00:35, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

:No one should even ''contemplate'' working on this until [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Citation cleanup/Repairing algorithmically generated citations|the tools for automatically generating citations are actually fixed]]. The damage that just ''one editor'' was able to do affected [[User:XOR'easter/sandbox/ReferenceExpander|thousands of pages]] and was so thankless and dispiriting to repair that [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Citation cleanup/ReferenceExpander batch 2|the volunteers gave up]]. [[User:XOR&#39;easter|XOR&#39;easter]] ([[User talk:XOR&#39;easter|talk]]) 00:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

== What's with the look of [[Special:PendingChanges]]? ==

I'm begging whoever is in charge of this to revert to the previous look. '''''[[User:LilianaUwU|<span style="font-family:default;color:#246BCE;">Liliana</span><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#FF1493;">UwU</span>]]''''' <sup>([[User talk:LilianaUwU|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/LilianaUwU|contributions]])</sup> 00:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

:Do you mean the the changes described in {{phab|T191156}}, which were deployed around the end of June/early July? --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 07:13, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, specifically [[phab:T191156#10038781|this]]. '''''[[User:LilianaUwU|<span style="font-family:default;color:#246BCE;">Liliana</span><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#FF1493;">UwU</span>]]''''' <sup>([[User talk:LilianaUwU|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/LilianaUwU|contributions]])</sup> 16:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

== My Wikiscan stats stopped updating in 2023 ==

Hi, I have noticed that my contributions stats on English Wikipedia haven't updated on Wikiscan since November 2023. [https://en.wikiscan.org/user/Odjob16] However, they still update for my contributions on other projects, like French Wikipedia. [https://fr.wikiscan.org/user/Odjob16] Is there anything I can do to fix this? Thanks! – '''[[User:Odjob16|<span style="color:#545454;">Odjob16</span>]]''' [[User talk:Odjob16|<span style="font-size:0.6rem;color:#fff;background-color:#545454;padding:0.2rem 0.5rem">Talk</span>]] 17:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

:That is a project that is completely a third party. We cannot help you. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 18:17, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

== Interface change ==

Is this possible to hide "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" description at the very top of each article? Also is this possible to hide description "This page was last edited on 10 August 2024, at 23:16." at the very bottom of the each page? <code>#f-list #lastmod {display: none;}</code> doesn't works. [[User:Eurohunter|Eurohunter]] ([[User talk:Eurohunter|talk]]) 18:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:Put this in your common.css: <syntaxhighlight lang="css">
#siteSub {
  display: none;
}

#footer-info-lastmod {
  display: none;
}
</syntaxhighlight>
:It works for me, anyway. The first one is the "From Wikipedia..." and the second one is the footer.  – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 18:44, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:: {{re|Jonesey95}} Looks like footer-info-lastmod also doesn't works. [[User:Eurohunter|Eurohunter]] ([[User talk:Eurohunter|talk]]) 21:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The first selector (<code>#siteSub</code>) is correct. The second selector should be <code>#lastmod</code> --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Not in Vector 2022. If you ask interface questions then please always reveal if you use another skin. Try this if it's MonoBook:
::::<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
#lastmod {display:none !important;}
</syntaxhighlight>
::::[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

==Message About Unfamiliar Device==
About 24 hours ago, I accessed Wikipedia on my cell phone from a car for hire, but was logged out. I went through the process of entering my password for my mobile account, and was logged back on.  I then received an email saying that I had accessed Wikipedia from a device that I had not used recently.  That wasn't accurate; it was the same cell phone as I have been using for about six months.  My question is whether that message really means that I logged on to Wikipedia from an IP address in an unfamiliar IP address range, because I was using a satellite connection.  Or was my device unfamiliar because I hadn't logged on in a few months because I had stayed logged on?
 
I do not have a security issue.  I am just wondering whether it really means that I accessed Wikipedia from an unfamiliar IP address range, or whether it means that my device is unfamiliar because I haven't logged on from it for months because I have been continuously logged on.  [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 17:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

:These notices are based on the IP address but the message is less technical written for accessibility reasons. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  18:24, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::Okay.  A retired IT engineer can figure out that it really means the IP address range.  [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 23:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

== TOC not displayed for non-logged in users ==

I know this must be an ''extremely'' dumb question, but please bear with me.

I have just finished drafting a long article (7,000 words readable prose) in my User space.  I asked a friend for comments and was told there is no Table of Contents (TOC).  This seems to be the case: unless you are logged in (which my friend wasn't), an article displays with no TOC.  This seems to hold for any article, in mainspace or otherwise.

Can this really be true?  It makes long articles very difficult to read for readers who are not logged in (i.e. most of them).  I have tried forcing a Table of Contents with __FORCETOC__ but it makes no difference.

It seems kind of difficult to believe that the average, casual reader of Wikipedia articles doesn't see a Table of Contents (unless he/she knows to force the display).

Am I missing something obvious, or is there a way of fixing this problem? [[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] 23:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] I'm guessing the page is [[User:Ttocserp/Slave-owning slaves]]? The TOC works on that page. The person viewing it may have a narrow screen, and in the default vector-2022 skin the TOC will collapse in to the icon to the left of the page title. Have them check there. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 23:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::If they are on mobile, the contents may be between the lead paragraph and the first section. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 23:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you, I believe you are right that it has to do with the default vector-2022 skiin.  That said, it doesn't fix the basic problem i.e. the Average Joe doesn't get to see a TOC.  My friend has a big, wide laptop. [[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] 23:37, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The TOC does appear in Vector 2022. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 23:42, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Then I am totally bewildered.  Is there any kind of technical fix? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] ([[User talk:Ttocserp#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ttocserp|contribs]]) 00:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)</small>
:::::For what? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 00:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::The non-display of the TOC in what must be quite common circumstances.[[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] 00:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::: Can you provide a screenshot of the page with no TOC appearing? [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 00:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Does this help? The TOC is viewed by clicking the symbol made up of three dots and three lines, to the left of the page name.
::::::::[[File:Vector_2022_TOC_closed_Aug2024.jpg|thumb|To show the Table of Contents in the Vector 2022 closed state (not logged in)]]
::::::::[[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 00:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Ok, I now see that the problem is not what I thought it was.  A TOC ''does'' display down the left-hand side, but only a rudimentary one (only level 2 headings).  So I guess to fix that I have some learning to do.[[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] 00:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Some of the headings, for example the one for ''Add A Fact experimental tool from Future Audiences'' on this page, should have > symbols beside them. Clicking the symbol opens the further levels. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 00:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::The lower-level headings are there too, just collapsed. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 00:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::The TOC is collapsed on that page because there are more than the number of headings that allow for an automatically expanded TOC (I think 19). See {{phab|T333801}}, {{phab|T317818}}, {{phab|T333017}}, and probably more tasks.  – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 01:08, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thank you. I have reduced the number of headings, and it works. [[User:Ttocserp|Ttocserp]] 00:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== Can a Lua script on wikipedia contain Javascript and run it? ==

Can a Lua script on wikipedia contain Javascript and run it? If so, how? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:32, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
: No. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:35, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
: But we could potentially extract the JavaScript into a [[WP:Template gadget|template gadget]] if there's a really good reason you need to run custom JavaScript. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pppery}} Thank you. My idea is:
::We have {{tl|verify spelling}} which allows you to mark a potential typo you are unsure about (if it is a typo and if so, how to fix it).
::In javascript its not too hard to turn <syntaxhighlight lang="mediawiki">{{verify spelling|tyop|suggestion=typo}}</syntaxhighlight>
::which currently renders as:
::{{verify spelling|tyop|suggestion=typo}}
::into, for example: tyop [<span style="background-color:#F0F0F0;">replace with: typo <span style="color:green;>✓</span> <span style="color:red;>x</span></span>]
::Clicking the cross would remove the template and clicking the checkmark would implement the change and remove the template and then  reload the page. 
::But the downside of a javascript is having to convince everyone to put it in their common.js. If I write the javascript, do you think it could be turned into a gadget? How does that procedure (if any) work? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pppery}} Script is here: [[User:Polygnotus/verify.js]] (I am abusing the {{para|reason}} because there is no suggestion parameter yet). I've tested it on my userpage with <syntaxhighlight lang="mediawiki">{{verify spelling|reason=typo=>typo}}</syntaxhighlight> [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::: This seems silly - when would one ever use that template if one knew the typo fix, rather than fixing the typo themselves. If the template adder wasn't sure enough to fix the typo then driveby JavaScript users won't be either. Yes, this is close to an argument to delete {{tl|verify spelling}}. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:37, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Pppery}} Au contraire mon frère: 
::::#Take the most frequently used words
::::#generate possible misspellings. The result looks like this:
::::#:description,deescription
::::#:description,desscription
::::#:description,desccription
::::#check if those misspellings occur in the latest dump and delete all lines that occur 0 or more than 50 times.
::::#check them against the Action API to see if they still exist and which articles they are on.
::::#:category|catgeory|David F. Walker
::::#:category|cateogry|Natasha Bedingfield
::::#:category|cateogry|Giovanni Falcone
::::#I then use a seriously unhealthy amount of regex to see if they should be fixed or not (e.g. they are not in a comment, certain templates, certain parameters and the article does not use stuff like {{tl|nobots}} or [sic] et cetera.
::::I end up with an insane amount of possible typos. 
::::I can fix em myself with my AWB module or turn them into wikilinks and solve em with my [[User:Polygnotus/typo.js|javascript]] (see [[User:Polygnotus/typos]]) or I can use my homebrew AWB-like thing based on Selenium and ducttape. But there are simply too many for me myself and I to fix.
::::In some cases I have no clue if something is a typo and if so, how to fix it. Figuring that out can take a decent amount of time. No problem for one or two, but if you have tens of thousands it becomes a bit much, you know? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 04:55, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::: And we have things like [[WP:Correct typos in one click]] which do that much better than the implied maintenance tag bot you are suggesting. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:56, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Pppery}} Possible typo detected. Arming missile launchers. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 04:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::: LOL. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:59, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Pppery}} Aaah you [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AVillage_pump_%28technical%29&diff=1240394227&oldid=1240394172 fixed] it. Anyway, while Correct typos in one click is super cool, I can still find tens of thousands of typos. So the problem hasn't been solved yet by its existence. 
::::::::This is a different approach; Correct typos in one click hinges on luring people to an external website to do a pretty boring task. You could improve that model by offering them barnstars at certain levels of achievement and gamifying it and the like. But attracting people to an external website without an advertising budget is always gonna be hard. And typofixing is not sexy. There will be some hardcore users who return, but who is gonna make a calender event to return monthly when the new dump has been parsed?
::::::::External tools will always have a huge discoverability and user retention problem. People adopt bots when their owners disappear so that would also increase the bus factor. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 05:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== Conditional expressions bolding? ==

<code><nowiki>{{#ifeq:</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>{{#if:</nowiki></code> bolding text after {{dif|1240466343|having added a param to a template}}. What am I doing wrong? [[User:Qwerty284651|Qwerty284651]] ([[User talk:Qwerty284651|talk]]) 14:10, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:The leading semicolon?  See [[MOS:DEFLIST]].
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:26, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{U|Qwerty284651}}: Look at the workaround right after if:slam in the code. That's probably what you want. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{dif|1240470424|Got it}}. Thanks. [[User:Qwerty284651|Qwerty284651]] ([[User talk:Qwerty284651|talk]]) 14:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::The general problem and some workarounds are described at "If the first character of a template expansion is one of four wiki markup characters" at [[Help:Template#Problems and workarounds]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 16:26, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== Adding transparency to make templates more dark-mode friendly ==

As someone who has witnessed the transition to Fandom Desktop which had a dark mode included, I want to suggest something that might actually be good for templates, and that is adding transparency to backgrounds (not to the font, just to backgrounds using rgba or hex codes) This could be done automatically but it might be better to do so in wikitext and may be a good addition to the manual of style. This would allow the text to be colored white (or whatever) and we would not have to [[MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css#L-51|auto-color stuff with backgrounds black]]. I wonder what level of transparency would be good for this. I was thinking 0.1 but there isn't a good way to check. Maybe this could be done as a bot task for inline styles and by interface admins for CSS sheets. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 19:34, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

:Maybe that is useful for the night mode gadget (I would not know), but for the vector-2022/minerva night mode using 'background:transparent' where the light mode color is white is frowned upon per [[Mw:Recommendations for night mode compatibility on Wikimedia wikis#Avoid using background: none or background: transparent]]. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 21:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::No I do not think <code>background: transparent;</code> should be used. I think there should be partial transparency. Something like this:
::<span style="background-color:rgba(255, 0, 0, 0.25);color:inherit;">Red</span>
::<span style="background-color:rgba(255, 255, 0, 0.25);color:inherit;">Yellow</span>
::<span style="background-color:rgba(0, 255, 0, 0.25);color:inherit;">Green</span>
::Try viewing [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}|safemode=1&useskin=vector-2022}} like this] and you should see that the colors should appear fine on both light and dark without any adjustments. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 22:45, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Wait that is so weird. Why is the text color being changed to this black color when background tags are used? I am just testing with safe mode and it is happening. Thoughts? [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 22:48, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Awesome Aasim}} The text color is changed to black because a CSS rule was put into MediaWiki that automatically sets the text color to #202122 in dark mode if no text color is specified locally. If you don't want this to happen, you can simply add {{code|color:inherit;}} like this: <span style="background:green; color:inherit">Green</span>. [[User:I Am Andumé|Andumé ]] ([[User talk:I Am Andumé|talk]]) 01:06, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::For more information see [[phab:T358797]]. [[User:I Am Andumé|Andumé ]] ([[User talk:I Am Andumé|talk]]) 01:16, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I am still confused why was that task implemented? They probably should have just consulted with communities first as to how they would like templates and whatnot to be implemented. Using a light/dark mode switch would be ideal but having partial transparency would be easier to implement for template designers. Especially for the number of templates that use a combination of inline styles and TemplateStyles. I think there should probably be a task for adding transparency to inline elements. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 16:09, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Awesome Aasim}} I believe this fix was implemented because smaller wiki would likely not have enough technical contributors to fix the affected templates locally in a reasonable amount of time. Once all of the templates affected by the global rule are fixed, it can be disabled using [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-styles-exclude]]. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikimediaMessages#Disabling_styles for more infomation. Hope this helps! [[User:I Am Andumé|Andumé ]] ([[User talk:I Am Andumé|talk]]) 22:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Adding 'display:transparent' is a later stage thing and too soon to do now. Since you are mentioning templates and templatestyles, pages in the template namespace that are not redirects or subpages are 3047 and number of "styles.css" pages in the template namespace are 570. Disabling night mode styles from Wikimedia Messages needs to be done with other changes that make the whole stylesheet unnecessary. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 02:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::That CSS does not work. There is the <code>opacity</code> property but that is not what we should use. We should be adding transparency to just the ''background colors'', like I showed above, not to the entire elements. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 18:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== Smileys ==
[[File:Smiley_with_darkmode_gadget_in_Firefox_on_Pop_OS.png]]

These smileys look fine in light mode, but they look weird and vaguely racist in dark mode. Does someone know how to fix that?

😀😀😀🤠 

I am using Vector legacy and [[Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)]] and FF and Pop OS. 

Thanks, [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:I doubt the gadget has any easy way to recognise emoji and exclude them from being inverted. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  12:04, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::Hm, good point. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:06, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm pretty sure that the appearance (including the colouring) is browser-specific. What I mean is, if I view this page in Firefox and also in Edge, those emojis look different in colour and also in other ways, such as the shape of the teeth. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:55, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:This is exactly the reason why the foundation didn't end up using tha method of the Gadget to provide dark mode, and it is listed in [[Wikipedia:Dark_mode_(gadget)#Limitations]]. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 20:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|TheDJ}} Does the official dark mode only work on Vector2022? Can I use it on Vector2010? I was pretty confused by that. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 20:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Official dark mode is supported on Vector 2022 and on Minerva. It is not supported/provided elsewhere today, but like all the software deployed, the skins are open source. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 20:44, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you. I hope official dark mode support comes to Vector2010 soon but that appears to be unlikely (if I understand Phabricator correctly, haven't done much digging). [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 21:12, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== interface message 'Vector-toc-beginning' ==

At en.wiki I can write:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">local title_obj = mw.title.new ("MediaWiki:Vector-toc-beginning");
local content = title_obj:getContent();</syntaxhighlight>
and it returns the content of [[MediaWiki:Vector-toc-beginning]]: '(top)'

If I write the same thing at fr.wiki, it does not work.  The page appears to be there: [[:fr:MediaWiki:Vector-toc-beginning]].  My code should set <code>content</code> to 'Début'.  I'm guessing that the content of the fr.wiki page comes from translatewiki.  I can also write:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline="1">content = mw.getCurrentFrame():callParserFunction('int', {'Vector-toc-beginning'})</syntaxhighlight> 
That, at least, returns a value: 'Beginning'.  Yay, but not what I want.  Changing my interface language at fr.wiki from English to French gets me the result that I want: 'Début'.

Is there any way to get the French interface message without it gets translated to the reader's interface language?  There is a move afoot to internationalize [[Module:Section sizes]].  The content of MediaWiki:Vector-toc-beginning (at en.wiki) is used to name the unnamed lede section in the module's output table.  That lede section name should always render in the same language as the local wiki regardless of the user's interface language setting.

—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:45, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
: Try <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline>mw.message.new( 'vector-toc-beginning' ):inLanguage( mw.language.getContentLanguage() ):plain()</syntaxhighlight>. The <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline>title_obj:getContent()</syntaxhighlight> method only works when the message has been locally customized; if it's using the MediaWiki default, it doesn't work because the page doesn't exist. P.S. Doing just <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline>mw.message.new( 'vector-toc-beginning' ):plain()</syntaxhighlight> is much like the <code>int</code> method, using the user's interface language. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 17:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::I believe that does it, thank you.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:46, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

==editing in the dark==
The site recently began darkening its countenance at night.  I don't have a personal preference one way or another, but it benefits those around me, so I don't want to use hacky methods to undo it.  The editing window's colouration has fluctuated several times (see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 214#Dark mode issues]]), but has settled recently.  Unfortunately, mine is still showing dark-grey text against a black editing-window-background; I'm typing this in a separate program and will copy/paste it when done, hoping it'll save properly.  I assume this isn't widespread, else there'd be a rapid fix, but I'd really like to find a solution soon.  Anybody know what and why I'm experiencing?  Much obliged,  —  '''[[user:Fourthords|<span style="color:#c00">Fourthords</span>]] &#124; [[user talk:Fourthords|=Λ=]] &#124;''' 01:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Fourthords|Fourthords]] If you are seeing normal text in dark-grey but wiki-syntax like double-square-brackets in colors (e.g. [[phab:F53684202|like this screenshot]]), then this is a bug related to the extension which powers that syntax-highlight feature, [[phab:T365311]]. That bug is being worked on and should be fixed soon (next week or two I'd guess, from the latest comments there), but for now you can toggle off the syntaxhighlight with the 7th button in the toolbar (a marker-pen shape). I hope that helps. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 18:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::Note that the above behaviour only happens in the "automatic" color mode, light and dark are unaffected. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  18:56, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm seeing!  I thought the colour-coding behaviour had been the default for... I don't know, a decade or more?  Is this not affecting an outsized amount of the editing community?  Regardless, at least that'll let me edit within the browser again (and it's not like I have those color-indicating features in the word processor I've been using during the nighttime hours, anyway!).  I'll test it in the next couple of days.  Thanks for the heads-up!  —  '''[[user:Fourthords|<span style="color:#c00">Fourthords</span>]] &#124; [[user talk:Fourthords|=Λ=]] &#124;''' 19:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

== Preloading text ==

It is possible to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus?action=edit&section=new&preload=Template:welcome preload a template], but how can I preload specific text? Preloading a template is useful, but sometimes you don't know the text you want to preload in advance.

[[:mw:Manual:Creating pages with preloaded text]]

I want something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus?action=edit&section=new&preload=This%20is%20just%20some%20text

[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:28, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
:You can use preloadparams[]= while preloading a suitable page. [[User:PrimeHunter/$1]] (not protected) only contains <code>$1</code>. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus?action=edit&section=new&preload=User:PrimeHunter/$1&preloadparams%5b%5d={{urlencode:This is just some text}}. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 02:48, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|PrimeHunter}} Thank you, that is way better than my workaround! [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:53, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

== Remove redirects and redlinks from my watchlist ==

Is there an easy way to remove redirects and redlinks from my (long) watchlist? [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 06:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:Do you mean when viewing [[Special:Watchlist]]? Here's a CSS rule that hides both: <syntaxhighlight lang=css>/* hide edits to redirects and redlinked pages from watchlist */
li.mw-changeslist-line:has(a.mw-redirect),
li.mw-changeslist-line:has(a.mw-changeslist-title.new) {
  display: none;
}</syntaxhighlight> It goes in {{yourcss}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 07:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:You can also use [[Special:EditWatchlist]] to check all the titles you no longer want, and remove them entirely. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 08:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::If you install [[User:BrandonXLF/GreenRedirects]] then redirects will be green at [[Special:EditWatchlist]] and elsewhere. Redlinks are already red there. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:52, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

* I want to remove them entirely.  My list is so long that I don't want to go through them looking for ones in italiacs.  [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 15:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::If you are willing to copy-paste [[Special:EditWatchlist/raw]] to a public wiki page like [[User:Bubba73/Watchlist]] then I can look at trimming it with some regex, ifexist and [[Module:Redirect#IsRedirect]], probably 500 or 250 pages at a time due to a MediaWiki limit. Then you can copy it back. I may not have time today. If there are pages you watch with a time limit then I don't know whether the limit will be remembered. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 15:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] My [[User:Ahecht/Scripts/watchlistcleaner]] script does exactly that. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 16:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

:: Thanks, that sounds like what I'm looking for..  {{resolved}} [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 18:04, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::: Thanks, I did that and it removed 34 pages for me.  [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 03:55, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

== DISPLAYTITLE refuses to lowercase surname on Iris Menas ==

DISPLAYTITLE complains about a disallowed modification when trying to lowercase the "M" on [[Iris Menas]]. Could someone knowledgeable please investigate? <span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(-3deg);bottom:-.1em;">[[user:Paradoctor|Paradoctor]]</span> ([[user talk:Paradoctor|talk]]) 21:41, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Paradoctor|Paradoctor]] It's because the title would need to be [[Iris menas]], and there was an RFM away from that title last year. [[User:Theknightwho|Theknightwho]] ([[User talk:Theknightwho|talk]]) 21:47, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
::Ugh, should've noticed the RFC. And I just found out that I misread [[WP:DISPLAYTITLE]]. <span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(-3deg);bottom:-.1em;">[[user:Paradoctor|Paradoctor]]</span> ([[user talk:Paradoctor|talk]]) 22:00, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

== "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary (or the default undo summary)" preference did not work for me just now ==
{{tracked|T372643}}
I have had the "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary (or the default undo summary)" option selected in my Preferences for years. Until just now, it has always prompted me when the edit summary (a) was blank, (b) consisted of only a section header because I was editing a section, or (c) consisted of the default undo summary. Just now, I [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jonesey95&diff=prev&oldid=1240633529 responded to a talk page section] and clicked Publish, forgetting to add custom text to the summary. I was not prompted to add an edit summary. Can anyone reproduce this problem?

I am using Vector 2022 and the old wikitext editor (I don't know what it's called anymore, but in my Editing Preferences, the "editing toolbar", "Visual Editor, and "wikitext mode" checkboxes are empty). – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 13:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*Replicated, bug [[phab:T372643]] opened. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*Seems to only be in namespace 2. Samples in other namespaces welcome. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:58, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Jonesey95}} do you recall the last time this worked as you expected, in "User talk:" space? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:11, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*::No, I don't remember, as the tool has conditioned me to put in a comment [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/editsummary/en.wikipedia.org/Jonesey95 nearly every time] (18 misses in 30,000 edits in 2024; thanks, clever tool!). I probably get prompted by the tool once every few weeks when I click Publish accidentally, so I wouldn't remember what namespace I was in. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Jonesey95}} there is a very old special case on that preference, it does not apply to your own user or usertalk page. The documentation has been updated. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*::Fascinating; the description of the Preferences option does not indicate this strange exception. I was surprised to encounter it after 300,000+ edits, including many to my own User Talk page. Thanks for the info. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
*::How odd. I tested just now and did get prompted {{tq|Reminder: You have not provided an edit summary.... }} on my user page and my talk page - which is fine. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 03:22, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
*:::Which editor are you using? I think the exception check is only for the wikitext editor. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 23:48, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
*::::I'm using the wikitext editor, but now I've tried editing my user page with visual and source editor, with various combinations of preferences ("Enable the editing toolbar
*::::This is sometimes called the '2010 wikitext editor'." on and off; "Use the wikitext mode inside the visual editor, instead of a different wikitext editor. This is sometimes called the '2017 wikitext editor'." on and off). {{tq|Reminder: You have not provided an edit summary....}} came up every time. Switching skins didn't defeat it either; would've been odd if it had, but I never knew this behaviour was odd either. I'm still fine with it, but if it's an anomaly you want to pursue then I'm happy to give feedback. Firefox on Windows 10, if it matters. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 10:55, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

== Can't save edit due to blacklisted link, but edit doesn't contain blacklisted link ==

I'm unable to save an edit due to the error "Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist or Wikimedia's global blacklist."

"The following link has triggered a protection filter: about.com"

I haven't added any external links. I can't share the text that's triggering the apparently erroneous alert, since that text is triggering the blacklist filter. If there is in fact a link to about.com, I can only think it would be due to a typo or some kind of technical issue with a template transclusion, but I have exhausted my own ability to troubleshoot the issue.

How can I get assistance in troubleshooting this? Thanks! —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 17:26, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Danhash}} It's about [[User:Danhash/Film project]] and not a live article so you can wrap the whole page in {{tag|nowiki}} before saving. Then we can see your code and track down the cause. I suspect you are transcluding blacklisted links from [[3D film]] and [[Hearing loss]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 17:45, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

::{{ping|PrimeHunter}} I have been working with the {{tl|get short description}} template to pull Short Descriptions of pages in my project into a table for easy reference. I removed the transclusion of the Short Descriptions of those two articles, and the page saved. I don't know why either of those Short Descriptions would trigger the blacklist for "about.com" though, as the transcluded text is "Film that gives an illusion of three-dimensional depth" and "Partial or total inability to hear" respectively. Is there a technical issue with those descriptions or with the template itself?

::Also, when in Edit Source mode, I'm getting the message "'''Warning''': [[Help:Template_limits#Post-expand_include_size|Post-expand include size is too large]]. Some templates will not be included." How do I resolve this?

::Thanks! —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small>

::In Edit Source mode I'm also getting multiple messages about {{tl|Cite Web}}, {{tl|Cite Journal}}, and {{tl|Citation}} templates, which are not present in the page I'm editing. I'm assuming that the {{tl|get short description}} template is transcluding them somehow, though they aren't showing up when viewing the page. —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 18:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The cs1|2 messaging is likely because of [[Module:Get_short_description#L-13|this]].  The code fetches the article wikitext and then calls <code>frame:preprocess()</code> on it which renders the wikitext into html (same as happens when you click the publish button).  Converting to html causes all cs1|2 templates in whatever article is being preprocessed to be rendered.  If there is anything in the cs1|2 templates that creates an error or maintenance message, those messages will show up in the preview message box.
:::
:::Once converted to html, [[Module:get short description]] looks for the {{tag|div}} tags that wrap the short description.  Not at all obvious that such a complicated mechanism is required.  [[User:Qwerfjkl|Pinging the author]] who can perhaps explain.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 18:37, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::This peculiar mechanism may also explain the inability to publish.  The preprocessed page that holds the blacklisted item triggers the filter.
::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 18:40, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Trappist the monk}} That seems awfully complex as well as resource-intensive for what seems like could be a simple database call. Is there an easier way to query for Short Descriptions (such as querying Wikidata)? —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 18:50, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I expect that there is.  Wikidata is possible, but I think that I've seen editors overriding the wikidata short description so, if they are doing that, wikidata won't be very reliable (if it ever was).  Let us see what the module author has to say.
::::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 19:07, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Maybe the confusingly named [[Module:GetShortDescription]] (not the same as [[Module:Get short description]]) would work better for this purpose. You might also look at {{tl|Annotated link}}. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 19:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::<small>Apparently not reliable for [[:Category:Short description is different from Wikidata|3,959,819]] articles. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 20:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)</small>
::::::::{{tlx|get short description}} is very expensive on the 2 MB limit for [[Help:Template limits#Post-expand include size]]. For example, {{tlx|get short description|Sign language}} uses 485K (23%) of the limit even though the whole wikitext of [[Sign language]] is only 124K. It doesn't help to invoke the used module directly with <code><nowiki>{{#invoke:Get short description|main|Sign language}}</nowiki></code>. But {{tlx|annotated link|Sign language}} only uses 0.2K. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:42, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have hacked a lightweight version of [[Module:Get short description]] in [[Module:Get short description/sandbox|its sandbox]].  This version recognizes all to the {{tlx|Short description}} redirects in addition to its canonical name.
::::::
::::::To test it, copy the ~/sandbox to your clipboard, and then edit [[Module:Get short description]].  Replace its contents with the contents of your clipboard.  Put <code>User:Danhash/Film project</code> in the '''Preview page with this template''' textbox and then click the attached '''Show preview''' button.  And yeah, {{em|do not click Publish changes}}.
::::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 22:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::This would be a fine addition to [[Module:Template redirect regex]], if you choose to use it. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span>&nbsp; 10:16, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
{{u|Danhash}}, I made a quick test on your subpage and undid it back to your version. Please see revision [[Special:Permalink/1240520247|1240520247]] of 20:35, 15 August 2024, and see if that does what you want. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

::{{u|Mathglot}}, your test worked! And I reverted back to your version. Thank you!

::{{u|Jonesey95}}/{{u|PrimeHunter}}/{{u|Trappist the monk}}, how does one invoke a Module; is it through a template? I also noticed that [[Module:GetShortDescription]] returns the Wikipedia Short Description by default, but if one doesn't exist, it returns the Wikidata Short Description. You can, however, specify to use *only* the Wikipedia description and return a blank string if it's empty, which would be the needed functionality for my purposes since the Wikidata description isn't always suitable for Wikipedia (see [[WP:Short description#Why not simply re-use Wikidata's item descriptions?]]). Does the edited version by {{u|Mathglot}} use the correct module parameter for this? —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 19:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::: {{u|Danhash}} my solution uses the short description value directly from the template in the article, and does not go through the module, so it knows nothing about the Wikidata value at all. If there is no {{tl|shortdesc}} template in the article, it will display blanks. For how to invoke a module, see [[Help:Module]]. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 22:42, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

== Notelist template ==

I'm not sure what happened, but the {{[[Template:Notelist|Notelist]]}} template has been displaying additional bullets and after a dummy edit instead displays error messages. I noticed it at this page: [[Top Cooku Dupe Cooku season 1]]. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 03:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:Can you please make a screenshot? Which error messages? {{tq|Cite error: A list-defined reference with the name "ep11t" has been invoked, but is not defined in the <references> tag (see the help page).}} <= that one? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 03:14, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, that's the one. But, the ref is defined in the {{[[Template:Reflist|Reflist]]}} <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 03:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The error message links to [[Help:Cite errors/Cite error empty references define]], which explains the problem: {{tq|1=Note: It [[Wikipedia:NFN#5. List-defined references|is possible to get this error message]] when [[Wikipedia:NFN|nesting footnotes]] in [[Wikipedia:LDR|list-defined references]], unfortunately the only fix in this situation is to not use list-defined references for entries that are nested.}} —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 06:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Another thing is when using the new "Parsoid"; the error message doesn't appear but instead a couple of more letters are displayed. Error message appears afeter a dummy edit. Screenshot: [https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Qb4bW22rZqCoCz6y2R7HrZ-pAKu2s7Nf&usp=drive_fs] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 07:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::That missing-error-message is tracked at [[phab:T372709]] (I noticed and filed it over the weekend). Thanks for noting it here. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 00:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:Offtopic but you seem to have installed {{tq|User:Qwertyytrewqqwerty/DisamAssist.js}} twice in [[User:Vestrian24Bio/common.js|your common.js]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 03:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::I've removed the duplicate one, Thanks! <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 03:39, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:You can't use list defined notes that contain references, it's a limitation of the MediaWiki software and is mentioned in the template documentation (see [[Template:Efn]]). If you define the notes outside of the notelist the error messages will go away. -- <small>LCU</small> '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small>]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]» °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°''</small> 15:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2024-34 ==

<section begin="technews-2024-W34"/><div class="plainlinks">
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/34|Translations]] are available.

'''Feature news'''
* Editors who want to re-use references but with different details such as page numbers, will be able to do so by the end of 2024, using a new [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing#Sub-referencing in a nutshell|sub-referencing]] feature. You can read more [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing|about the project]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing#Test|how to test the prototype]].
* Editors using tracking categories to identify which pages use specific extensions may notice that six of the categories have been renamed to make them more easily understood and consistent. These categories are automatically added to pages that use specialized MediaWiki extensions. The affected names are for: [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Aintersection-category&namespace=8 DynamicPageList], [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Akartographer-tracking-category&namespace=8 Kartographer], [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Aphonos-tracking-category&namespace=8 Phonos], [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Arss-tracking-category&namespace=8 RSS], [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Ascore-use-category&namespace=8 Score], [https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translations?message=MediaWiki%3Awikihiero-usage-tracking-category&namespace=8 WikiHiero]. Wikis that have created the category locally should rename their local creation to match. Thanks to Pppery for these improvements. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T347324]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] Technical volunteers who edit modules and want to get a list of the categories used on a page, can now do so using the <code><bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr">categories</bdi></code> property of <code><bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr">[[mediawikiwiki:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#Title objects|mw.title objects]]</bdi></code>. This enables wikis to configure workflows such as category-specific edit notices. Thanks to SD001 for these improvements. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T50175][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T85372]

'''Bugs status'''
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] Your help is needed to check if any pages need to be moved or deleted. A maintenance script was run to clean up unreachable pages (due to Unicode issues or introduction of new namespaces/namespace aliases). The script tried to find appropriate names for the pages (e.g. by following the Unicode changes or by moving pages whose titles on Wikipedia start with <code>Talk:WP:</code> so that their titles start with <code>Wikipedia talk:</code>), but it may have failed for some pages, and moved them to <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr">[[Special:PrefixIndex/T195546/]]</bdi> instead. Your community should check if any pages are listed there, and move them to the correct titles, or delete them if they are no longer needed. A full log (including pages for which appropriate names could be found) is available in [[phab:P67388]].
* Editors who volunteer as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Growth/Mentorship|mentors]] to newcomers on their wiki are once again able to access lists of potential mentees who they can connect with to offer help and guidance. This functionality was restored thanks to [[phab:T372164|a bug fix]]. Thank you to Mbch331 for filing the bug report. You can read about that, and 18 other community-submitted tasks that were [[m:Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Project updates'''
* The application deadline for the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Product and Technology Advisory Council/Proposal|Product & Technology Advisory Council]] (PTAC) has been extended to September 16. Members will help by providing advice to Foundation Product and Technology leadership on short and long term plans, on complex strategic problems, and help to get feedback from more contributors and technical communities. Selected members should expect to spend roughly 5 hours per month for the Council, during the one year pilot. Please consider applying, and spread the word to volunteers you think would make a positive contribution to the committee.

'''Learn more'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Coolest Tool Award#2024 Winners|2024 Coolest Tool Awards]] were awarded at Wikimania, in seven categories. For example, one award went to the ISA Tool, used for adding structured data to files on Commons, which was recently improved during the [[m:Event:Wiki Mentor Africa ISA Hackathon 2024|Wiki Mentor Africa Hackathon]]. You can see video demonstrations of each tool at the awards page. Congratulations to this year's recipients, and thank you to all tool creators and maintainers.
* The latest [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/08-01|Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin]] is available, and includes some highlights from Wikimania, an upcoming Language community meeting, and other news from the movement.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/34|Translate]]&nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
</div><section end="technews-2024-W34"/>

<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]</bdi> 00:50, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&oldid=27307284 -->
: I cleaned up the broken pages on enwiki already.  There were a few instances of a proxy-blocking admin posting multiple redundant notices on different normalizations of the same IP address, and two Unicode character redirects that got corrupted by some earlier maintenance script and not handled properly. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 00:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Adding new language versions to Watchlist ==

I often find that articles I start eventually get translated, particularly into Portuguese as I write mainly on Portuguese subjects. However, I only find out about these translations by accident. Would it be possible for Watchlist to be programmed to alert us when new-language versions of articles we are watching are published? Thanks [[User:Roundtheworld|Roundtheworld]] ([[User talk:Roundtheworld|talk]]) 09:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:If nothing like that is on the [[WP:USLIST|list]] then you may wanna look at [[WP:SCRIPTREQ]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 10:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Roundtheworld}} If you enable "Show Wikidata edits in your watchlist" at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist]] then it will show if a new language is added to the Wikidata item for the page. Other edits to the item will also show. If you only want language additions then somebody could probably make code to hide other Wikidata edits. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:04, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Great! Thanks.[[User:Roundtheworld|Roundtheworld]] ([[User talk:Roundtheworld|talk]]) 12:40, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

==Deleted contributions invisible==
{{tracked|T372444}}
I'm having a weird admin problem and that is that Deleted Contributions don't show up when I know that an editor has them. For example, I deleted [[Draft:Peter Bianca]] as a hoax article by [[User:Borris Lana]] but nothing shows up on [[Special:DeletedContributions/Borris Lana]] (sorry only visible to admins). I thought it was just a weird glitch, I just moved on. But I was investigating an edit by [[User:Abdullah Hill Mahin]] and in the blocking rationale on [[Special:Contributions/Abdullah_Hill_Mahin]] it states {{tq|Spam / advertising-only account; see also deleted contribs}}. But when I look at [[Special:DeletedContributions/Abdullah Hill Mahin]], the page is blank, no deleted contributions appear. Luckily, looking at these pages is a small part of what I do as an admin but I do check Deleted Contributions while I'm editing and if there is a problem, I'd like it to get fixed. 

Any admins facing similar problems or have an idea what might be going on? Thanks. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:This is [[phab:T372444]] as mentioned at [[WP:AN#DeletedContributions broken]].  Workaround in the meantime: Go to [[Special:DeletedContributions]] and put the user's name in the form; you'll get something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special%3ADeletedContributions&target=Borris+Lana this]. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 02:36, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:PrimeHunter/Deleted contribs.js]] adds a working "Deleted contribs" link under "Tools" in userspace. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:26, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::These work:
::*https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:DeletedContributions&target=Borris%20Lana
::*https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:DeletedContributions&target=Borris+Lana
::but replacing that plus sign with an underscore breaks it, as does replacing the <code>&target=</code> with a slash. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you for the advice, folks. I didn't return to this noticeboard until now to see it because the problem looked like it was fixed but it returned today. A sockpuppet account that had reportedly made 100 edits has 0 contributions and 0 deleted contributions (it's [[User:Santana Montana (Muse)]]), so I'll try some of your work-arounds. I just want to see if this sock farms keep recreating the same draft or main space article over and over again. Thanks again. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 20:27, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::I've deployed the fix a few days early (skipping the normal process of waiting for Thursday), so this should now be fixed. [[User:WBrown (WMF)|WBrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WBrown (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

:::::{{u|PrimeHunter}}, your script is a useful addition even when the bug's squashed [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 12:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:WBrown (WMF)|WBrown (WMF)]] looks to be fixed to me. Thanks. [[User:Nthep|Nthep]] ([[User talk:Nthep|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Math Rendering of <code>\R^n</code> ==

I am sorry if this issue has been already raised, or if it's only a local problem.

I am noticing that a specific mathematical expression (<code>\R^n</code> or <code>\mathbb{R}^n</code> ) does not render properly on Wikipedia pages when using the laptop version with Google Chrome or Safari (See for example, the page [[Isoperimetric inequality]]). My Wikipedia skin is Vector 2022 and the Math Setting "SVG (MathML can be enabled via browser plugin)" is enabled. Interestingly, this problem does not happen on the mobile version.

Weirdly, <math>\mathbb{A}^n</math>, <math>\mathbb{B}^n</math>, <math>\mathbb{C}^n</math>, <math>\mathbb{R}</math>, and <math>\mathbb{R}^n\subset\mathbb{R}^n</math> are properly displayed, but <math>\mathbb{R}^n</math> (<code>\mathbb{R}^n</code>) fails to render as expected. [[User:Clerel|Clerel]] ([[User talk:Clerel|talk]]) 13:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:It also failed for me. The image for <code>\mathbb{R}^n</code> was missing for some reason. I tried [[Help:Displaying a formula#Force-rerendering of formulas]] on this page and it worked after reloading with {{keypress|Ctrl|F5}}. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 13:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Getting a Zotero translator into Citoid ==

Two months ago, an updated [[:mw:Citoid/Creating Zotero translators|Zotero translator]] for the Bangkok Post (by Matthewmayer) was [https://github.com/zotero/translators/blob/master/Bangkok%20Post.js merged] to the Zotero repository. What else needs to be done to have it working in Citoid? The [[:mw:Citoid/Creating Zotero translators#Submit the translator|instructions]] at MW say to create a Phabricator ticket, but also to check some tests first which I can't make sense of. --[[User:Paul_012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul_012|talk]]) 08:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

:Then I'd say there are two tasks to make, one to help with the documentation and one to update our local installation. ;) [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 16:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Page continually crashes on mobile ==

When I view [[large milkweed bug]] on my iphone without logging in (just default skin for anon users) using Safari browser, the page repeatedly crashes with the message "A problem repeatedly occured on [the url]." The page partially loads and then crashes. The page loads just fine on my laptop.

I have a hunch that it might be related to the multiple videos embedded on the page. 1) Is there anything to fix this on the page? and/or 2) Is there anything I can do when this happens on my phone? I suppose I could try logging in, but I almost never edit with my phone and only use it to look things up, so would prefer to use anonymously to avoid distractions and overhead related to logging in (e.g., notifications and other stuff). [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 17:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

:What version of iOS is your iPhone? [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 19:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::iOS 17.5.1. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 19:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Eyeballing Phabricator, it looks like videos don't work on versions of Safari much older than that but there are no issues otherwise with Safari + video. This may possibly be [[phab:T242895]] instead, but you're having the issue logged out, and CentralNotice doesn't show up as often for logged out users I think. So maybe a new bug? [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 19:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
I just loaded the page logged out in Safari on an iPhone 12 mini with iOS 17.6.1 and am having the same issue. Switching to Chrome generates a similar error, "Can't open this page." [[User:Home Lander|Home Lander]] ([[User talk:Home Lander|talk]]) 22:52, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

*Could someone having the issue try to open the page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_milkweed_bug?safemode=1 using this safemode link] to see if it is different? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 23:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
*:Still crashes on my iPhone. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 23:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
*::When you say "just default skin for anon users" do you mean Minerva (mobile site) or Vector 2022 (desktop site?) <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 13:08, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
*:::Beats me. Whatever is the default skin for anon users on an iPhone. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 13:27, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
*::::Is the URL en.<u>m.</u>wikipedia.org or en.wikipedia.org? That's the question, I presume. [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80D2:B01:8F9:F3B:51A7:C558|2804:F1...A7:C558]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80D2:B01:8F9:F3B:51A7:C558|talk]]) &ndash; 15:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
*:::::I would assume it is the mobile website. I did nothing to force the iPhone browser away from the mobile site. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 16:22, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
*::::::In parallel to this, please open a bug with Apple [https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/ here]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 18:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== List of articles for clean-up by wikiproject ==

Hi! I'm wondering if it is possible to create a clean-up list of articles by Wikiprojects that are assessed as a stub, but don't have a stub template in the bottom of the article? In such cases either wikiproject assessment is outdated, or a proper stub template is missing. My main interest in this matter is [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Estonia|WP:Estonia]]. (And are there any other tools that can help to find higher than stub quality articles that are still assessed as a stub? My guess is Wikipedia has 5-10% more quality than the statistics show) [[User:Pelmeen10|Pelmeen10]] ([[User talk:Pelmeen10|talk]]) 13:01, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[quarry:query/85598]].  (Spoiler: there are, as usual, lots.)  [[WP:Request a query/Archive 4#Stub-class articles not tagged with a stub template]] has the more general case, now somewhat out-of-date and not sorted by the talk page cat name, but that wouldn't be difficult to add.{{pb}}[[WP:Request a query/Archive 4#Stubs by Article Size|#Stubs by Article Size]] higher up that same archive has one method for your second question, though I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 13:33, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::PetScan works great for producing that. Here's one I generated of the [https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=26802515 500 largest stubs for WP Louisville]. And with a minor change I made a [https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=29126225 report for Estonia]. [[User:StefenTower|<span style="color: green;">'''Stefen <span style="white-space: nowrap;">Tower<sub>s among the rest!</sub></span>'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:StefenTower|Gab]] • [[Special:Contributions/StefenTower|Gruntwerk]]</sup> 19:30, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Section link scripts ==

They ([[User:SoledadKabocha/copySectionLink.js]] and [[User:Bility/copySectionLink.js]]) don't seem to be working even though they're enabled in my common.js page. What is wrong? <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 10:32, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

:Many scripts related to section headers broke due to [[Special:Permalink/1231907133#User script that puts a ¶ symbol next to headings|changes in HTML layout]]. You can try using forks of such scripts with fixes for that, like [[User:Andrybak/Scripts/copy-section-link]]. The scripts you've linked and their forks are listed at [[Wikipedia:User scripts/List#Sections]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 10:47, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:Pinging @[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]]... <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 16:46, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
::I am no longer actively maintaining my user scripts (which were never fully intended for public consumption anyway, especially forks of other user's scripts). To the best of my memory, I stopped using any version of copySectionLink a long time ago. If there is some reason you need to use my version rather than Bility's or other alternative mentioned above, I can try to find some time to look into it over the weekend. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 17:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] I went ahead and marked your scripts as (unmaintained) at [[Wikipedia:User scripts/List]], feel free to revert if that changes. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 19:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Ahecht, the latest script works. Thank you. If the older scripts don't work, they are best deleted to avoid misleading orhers. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 00:38, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Redirecting them to a newer version of the script that actually works is also an option. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 00:40, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

== No favicon on Google ==

I know this is probably out of our remit, but does anyone have any idea why Google currently shows a placeholder instead of the "W" as the favicon for en.wikpiedia.org ([https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aen.wikipedia.org example])? It seems to be occurring only for some subdomains (en, fr, la, nn, no). Is there anything WMF can do about it? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 05:27, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
:This is related to the issues that are described in [[:phab:T348203]], has been happening for a while. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  09:16, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
::How do you know it's related? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 10:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
:::There are various comments saying that the favicon is missing. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  12:40, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
::::None of them identify the cause or its relation to the issue described in the task. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 00:12, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:Is this still happening? I see the expected W in the example link you provided. &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80D2:B01:9C2E:19B:EED1:BB5D|2804:F1...D1:BB5D]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80D2:B01:9C2E:19B:EED1:BB5D|talk]]) 17:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::Seems like its fixed now. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 17:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Still happening with fr. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 01:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

== What would be the best way to replace all usages of a file? ==

Hello, I'm am currently doing a massive overhaul of [[commons:Flags_of_municipalities_of_Trenčín_Region|Slovakia city flags]], included in this is replacing old raster flags with their svg counterparts. 

What would be the most efficient way replace all uses of "flag_x.jpg" with "flag_x.svg" across all Wiki projects for multiple flags? [[User:EnzoTC|EnzoTC]] ([[User talk:EnzoTC|talk]]) 06:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|EnzoTC}} [[WP:AWB]] (or if you don't have that, [[WP:AWBREQ]]), perhaps [[WP:BOTREQ]]. You should supply a clear description of exactly what needs changing and in what manner. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 07:34, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::I haven't tried it but see [[:commons:Commons:GlobalReplace#Replacement]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 09:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

== How does a bot know when a page is added to a category? ==

You could of course get the entire category every x minutes or hours and check if anything has changed and if so, what. Because some categories are rather big this could take a bunch of API calls. But there must be a more elegant solution, right? I found [[Wikipedia:IRC#Channels_for_specific_tasks]] but there was no channel for "pages added to a category". I also found https://stream.wikimedia.org/v2/stream/recentchange which is somewhat similar to what i want but filtered to "added to category X"-events. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Is [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/api.php?action=feedrecentchanges&format=json&feedformat=atom&days=14&limit=50&hidebots=1&target=Category%3APages_with_broken_reference_names&formatversion=2 this] what I want? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:23, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=query&format=json&list=recentchanges&formatversion=2&rctype=categorize&rctitle=Category%3APages%20with%20broken%20reference%20names] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=query&format=json&list=categorymembers&formatversion=2&cmtitle=Category%3APages%20with%20broken%20reference%20names&cmsort=timestamp]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 02:33, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you! Not exactly what I want but the closest I will get. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 03:17, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]], my bot uses [[:wikitech:Event Platform/EventStreams HTTP Service]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1724234955892:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 10:09, 21 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
::{{ping|Qwerfjkl}} Thank you. What is the URL the bot is looking at? Also can I have the bot code please? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 10:24, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]], the URL is https://stream.wikimedia.org/v2/stream/recentchange. I've just published the code at [[User:Qwerfjkl (bot)/code/CategoryMonitor]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1724236192038:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 10:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
::::{{ping|Qwerfjkl}} Thank you, this is perfect! [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 11:22, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]], great! Out of curiosity, what are you trying to do with this?<span id="Qwerfjkl:1724240801715:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 11:46, 21 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
::::::{{ping|Qwerfjkl}} Well, I was trying to make something similar to the thing you made, see [[User_talk:AnomieBOT#OrphanReferenceFixer]]. But I was also just trying to understand the Action, REST, XTools APIs and the EventStreams. I have written some code for each. I am desperately trying to become less stupid. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 11:54, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::In theory it might be possible to warn people who have introduced possible typos [[User:Polygnotus/Scripts/TypoFixer]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 11:56, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

== Where are user right links chosen? ==

When viewing [[Special:ListUsers]] or [[Special:UserRights]], the user rights are all clickable and take you to specific pages. What controls what the rights link to and where can I request a change?<br>
I ask because I want to request a change to the edit filter managers link (to [[Wikipedia:Edit filter manager|this]]) and also because I'm curious. &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80D2:B01:5502:419F:AB0F:8750|2804:F14...0F:8750]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80D2:B01:5502:419F:AB0F:8750|talk]]) 23:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllMessages?prefix=Grouppage. You won't have to look far. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:12, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
::[[MediaWiki:Grouppage-abusefilter]] was set to [[Wikipedia:Edit filter]] in 2009, and [[Wikipedia:Edit filter manager]] only got its own page two months ago. I have updated to the new page.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Grouppage-abusefilter&diff=prev&oldid=1241587278] [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you :). &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80D2:B01:5502:419F:AB0F:8750|2804:F1...0F:8750]] ([[User talk:2804:F14:80D2:B01:5502:419F:AB0F:8750|talk]]) 02:55, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== In regards to <nowiki>{{Lang}}</nowiki> and subtemplates like <nowiki>{{Lang-xx}}</nowiki> ==

I'm sorry for not making the title more informational, but if I did try to explain it, it would just be the entire post.

I have a very specific issue; so specific that I don't really know whether or not this is the right place to ask here, so apologies if I should have placed this somewhere else. This doesn't exactly relate to Wikipedia itself, but because my issue uses templates and modules that comes ''from'' Wikipedia I feel this is the best place to ask.<br>
To cut it short, on another wiki, we use the likes of [[Template:Lang|<nowiki>{{Lang}}</nowiki>]] and its counterparts, Lang-xx (ex: lang-zh) in the same capacity that Wikipedia uses. When using Lang-xx correctly: ex: {{Langx|de|Deutschland|italic=no}}, the 'link' to the page obviously uses the standard Wikipedia style of [[ ]] to create a link to the German language article.

The problem is that because this wiki is not actually on Wikipedia, when the page 'links' the article, it does not link to Wikipedia, it links to a non-existent article on the wiki that then either has to be filled with a redirect already to Wikipedia or not created at all. '''I'd like to replace the (apparent) [[ ]] markup with a [[Wikipedia: ]] markup so that these pages on the site link to Wikipedia rather than to these nonexistent pages'''. I know how to do that, I just don't know where in the world to look for it. I've combed through nearly every module I can find for Lang and I haven't found anything. [[User:TheodoresTomfooleries|TheodoresTomfooleries]] ([[User talk:TheodoresTomfooleries|talk]]) 19:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

:Asking on [[Template talk:Lang]] is the right place. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 20:07, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:On this site [[Module:Lang#L-436]] is where this happens. Look for this code on your site and change it there. [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 20:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[User:Alex 21/script-categoriessort]] ==

Is it possible to make this viewable in mobile desktop mode, much like [[User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM_dates|this]]? The categories script is viewable only when I rotate the mobile sideways. Pinging the creator {{u|Alex 21}} if he can do something. Considering how less desktop time I'm getting of late and the need for using this script more often, I hope something can be done. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 12:38, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Kailash29792}} So like [[User:Polygnotus/catsort.js]]? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::Yes exactly! I was not even aware this script existed, so thank you! If one script gets deprecated the other should serve as alternative. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 13:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Well, it [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:Polygnotus/catsort.js&action=history didn't exist] until recently. Please copy the script to [[User:Kailash29792/catsort.js|your own userspace]] and install it from there. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:05, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you for copying my script. {{smiley}} -- [[User:Alex 21|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#02B">Alex_</span><span style="font-size:smaller;color:#02B">21</span>]]<sub>&nbsp;[[User talk:Alex 21|<span style="font-size:xx-small;color:#009">TALK</span>]]</sub> 21:15, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Alex 21}} And thank you for writing it! [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 22:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Kailash29792}} forgot to ping. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:05, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you, I've done accordingly. And it works. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 13:07, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}{{reply to|Kailash29792|Alex 21}} Turns out that [[Wikipedia:Categorization]] says: {{tq|The order in which categories are placed on a page is not governed by any single rule (for example, it does not need to be alphabetical). Normally the most essential, significant categories are listed first.}} since [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ACategorization&diff=prev&oldid=273402842#Categorizing_pages 2009]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 08:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

:Me having attempted a few FAs, a common comment in them was the request to sort categories alphabetically. I agreed with them as it makes for easier searching. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">[[User:Kailash29792|<b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b>]] [[User talk:Kailash29792|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]] </span> 08:37, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{replyto|Kailash29792|Polygnotus|Alex 21}} I've only just read this properly. Please see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 114#Create a BOT to alphabetize and organize categories automatically]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:01, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I don't have an opinion on if categories should be sorted by importance or alphabetically. I just saw a request to make a minor modification to a script so I posted a modified version. Then I happened to read a bit of a guideline so I quoted it because it might be of interest. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 14:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:::TLDR: Bot proposal failed [[Wikipedia:COSMETICBOT]] and this userscript: [[User:Paradoctor/CatVisor]] is pretty cool, it adds user-configurable ways of arranging and displaying the categories on articles. CatVisor does not touch the article source, and will not change anything for those not using it. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 14:22, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:::''My'' code shall remain thus. Anyone who wants to copy it without asking, if there's issues with it, that's on them. Cheers. -- [[User:Alex 21|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#02B">Alex_</span><span style="font-size:smaller;color:#02B">21</span>]]<sub>&nbsp;[[User talk:Alex 21|<span style="font-size:xx-small;color:#009">TALK</span>]]</sub> 21:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== Map SVG not rendering correctly ==

I'm not sure if this is the place for this since this straddles Wikipedia and Commons. For [[c:File:African_mpox_epidemic.svg|the map]] used in [[2023–2024 mpox epidemic]], I added diagonal hatching (stripes) to certain countries. This renders correctly on my SVG editing tool (Inkscape), when viewing the raw SVG file in my browser (Firefox), and when exporting to a PNG. However, within Wikipedia's and Commons' viewer, the stripes don't show up. I'm somewhat new to editing SVGs, but it seems like I did this correctly (or correctly enough), and so I'm a bit lost. <b>[[User:TheTechnician27|<span style="color: #00a9ff"><i>TheTechnician27</i></span>]]</b> [[User talk:TheTechnician27|<span style="color: blue">(Talk page)</span>]] 20:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:If I go to the file description page, and try some of the links after "Other resolutions", I find that the 2,560 × 1,315 pixels and 2,921 × 1,500 pixels sizes both show the stripes, whereas 1,280 × 657 pixels doesn't - and nor do the smaller ones. So, when you export to a PNG, what resolution do you use? Have you tried making the stripes wider? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:46, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Redrose64}} So this is interesting: when I adjust the resolution on Wikipedia to 2300px, it only shows ''some'' of the countries, namely the ones where I used 0.400 for the pattern scale in Inkscape. However, when I export to a 2300px PNG locally, it still displays all of the lines just fine. Scaling down to 600px export from Inkscape, it still "shows" the lines, although by that point it's too bit-crushed to distinctly make them out as lines. Thus, this appears to be some sort of failure on MediaWiki's end. Edit: Even the highest-resolution default PNG on Commons fails to display Taiwan, Portugal, and the Philippines.<b>[[User:TheTechnician27|<span style="color: #00a9ff"><i>TheTechnician27</i></span>]]</b> [[User talk:TheTechnician27|<span style="color: blue">(Talk page)</span>]] 22:24, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== MediaWiki feature for broken section links ==

Since July there's been two different kinds of notices when trying to open a wikilink with a broken section (either because it was archived or just broken/refactored). They are the following texts on English Wikipedia:

* This topic could not be found. It might have been deleted, moved or renamed.
* This topic could not be found on this page, but it does exist on the following page: [[Help:Example|Example]]

It is documented MediaWiki feature at [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:DiscussionTools]]. Added here to make it easier to find. I could not find the second message, but found the first at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_213#absent_section_links_&_popups]] so making it easier for others to find it.  ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 23:35, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:To see the second message, you can try [[Wikipedia_talk:Linter#Spans_in_Infoboxes|this archived discussion]]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:42, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== Implementing category editnotices ==

Just today, it became possible for Lua to read out the categories used on a specific page. See [[phab:T50175]]. You can see how this works in [[Module:Sandbox/Awesome Aasim/Editnotice Load|this sandbox module]] and in [[testwiki:Module:Editnotice load]] and [https://test.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Swift&action=edit].

I want to see if we can implement category editnotices here. Other improvements I have made to this module include page ID-specific editnotices, useful because it allows the page to move around without having to move the editnotice around to match the title. There is probably some cleanup that can be done with this module, for example using Lua functions instead of preprocessing {{tl|replace}}, but I think it is a good start. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 20:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:I wish this existed two months ago when I wrote [[Module:Engvar/detect]]. Would've been so much easier to grab categories rather than trying to capture the name of every redirect to every template. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 22:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::Actually, never mind, looks like it's expensive (unlike getContent(), which grabs the entire contents of the page). <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 00:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:::How is grabbing the entire contents of the page ''not'' expensive? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:19, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Because it doesn't require much compute, and because it stays with tables of the database, that we are already accessing while parsing anyways. Things are only marked as expensive if they cause potential exponential increases of load. Crossing from parsing one article to parsing many articles or dependencies of the article is such a case, as this creates a spiderweb of parsing dependencies that have to be accessed. Accessing a blob of text we already have in memory is much less expensive. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 18:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::::: More specifically, my thinking back when I was working on Scribunto was that <code>getContent()</code> is the same thing from a data-loading perspective as transcluding a page (and, IIRC, it uses the same underlying data-fetching functions), and since transcluding a page isn't considered an expensive operation so <code>getContent()</code> shouldn't be either. On the other hand, most other parser functions that have to make a separate database query to load some data are considered expensive, and so Scribunto functions that make database queries are marked as expensive for that reason. Whoever implemented the new feature likely followed the same reasoning. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 19:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::: Is transcluding a page that contains a dozen or a hundred expensive parser functions considered an expensive operation? Is it possible to get the raw wikicode without interpreting it? (I need that for something else.) That should be inexpensive regardless, right? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 22:49, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Transclusion isn't expensive but it results in an increase in the post expand include limit size. Something I was running into that made parsing to see categories impractical. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 20:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::: Valid point about [[WP:PEIS|PEIS]], but that's a separate concen, isn't it, and doesn't really address the question I raised about transcluding a page full of expensive functions, so I hope someone comments on that. It seems to me that an "expensive parser function" is well-defined and quantifiable, but "transclusion isn't expensive" is not. I would say it depends on what's being transcluded. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:36, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Indeed it does. If a page uses expensive parser functions then it adds to the expensive parser function count. But otherwise transclusion does not add to this count, and only adds to the post expand include limit. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 00:45, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::: I think you're agreeing, but I can't quite tell what you mean by that. Concrete example: after your comment was published, this page had 41 expensive functions. Now, after this comment, {{#if: {{User:Mathglot/sandbox/Templates/ten expensive calls}} }} it has 51. The increase of ten comes from transcluding [[User:Mathglot/sandbox/Templates/ten expensive calls]] in this comment. I think you would agree that transclusion not only adds to the PEIS but also to the expensive count, by the number of expensive functions it transcludes (after full expansion). <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mathglot|contribs]]) </small> 01:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
{{unindent}}
I am 90% there on the Scribunto rewrite of the editnotice loader on [[testwiki:Module:Editnotice load]]. Because of the sheer volume of links I decided to put all of the links in a collapsible before the editnotice. I want to make the bullet horizontal like an hlist, do you know which styling needs to be applied to do this? [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 01:43, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

== Gadget to display a user's rights ==

I used to have a gadget enabled that showed a user's rights, with little icons next to their username that showed whether they were an admin, oversighter, arbcom member, etc. Those are no longer displaying, so I don't know if the gadget is no longer working or if I somehow disabled it. Unfortunately, I don't remember this gadget's name, so I can't look more into it myself. Does anyone else know what I'm referring to? <b>[[User:Jauerback|Jauerback]]</b><sup>[[User talk:Jauerback|dude?]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jauerback|dude.]]</sub> 15:23, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jauerback}} The [[:MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition|list of gadgets is here]]. I don't see a recently removed gadget that does what you want there. But gadgets are basically userscripts with an attitude. And there are plenty of userscripts that do what you want. The relevant section of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_scripts/List#User_information list of userscripts is here] and you are probably talking about something similar to [[User:Bugghost/Scripts/UserRoleIndicator|UserRoleIndicator]] or [[User:Guarapiranga/markAdmins|markAdmins]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 15:56, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:Ah, found it, the gadget you are referring to is on Commons, not on enwiki. See [[:commons:MediaWiki:Gadget-markAdmins.js]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 16:20, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. It was a user script; not a gadget. After looking through the list, the one I was referring to is [[User:Anne drew/admintagger]]. <b>[[User:Jauerback|Jauerback]]</b><sup>[[User talk:Jauerback|dude?]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jauerback|dude.]]</sub> 18:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

== Can't close tab via Javascript when syntax highlighting (CodeMirror) is enabled? ==
{{solved}}
When I enable [[WP:SYNTAX|syntax highlighting with CodeMirror]] (I am using the old editor), window.close(); does not work anymore. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 08:22, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Polygnotus}} Your link is to a dab page which doesn't mention CodeMirror. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:31, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::It links to [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2016/CodeMirror this] which links to [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CodeMirror this] which links to [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/create/?projects=MediaWiki-extensions-CodeMirror this] to report a bug so thats what I'm doing now. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 08:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The only link to a page on meta is [[meta:Community Tech/Wikitext editor syntax highlighting]]. I see that it is a redirect to [[meta:Community Wishlist Survey 2016/CodeMirror]] which mentions [[mw:Extension:CodeMirror]] in its first paragraph. That does have a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/create/?projects=MediaWiki-extensions-CodeMirror Report a bug] link, but following that link I find no mention of Wikipedia, let alone Village pump (technical). I also don't find either Wikipedia or Village pump (technical) mentioned on either of the two CodeMirror pages, so I don't see why you're reporting here. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Because the nerds are here. My people. I am no Javascript expert, and I am unsure why CodeMirror seems to block window.close() and how it does that and how to get around that if possible. As you can see on [[Special:Version]], CodeMirror is installed here on en.wikipedia.org. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 09:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Hm, I see <code>window.addEventListener( 'beforeunload'</code> in CodeMirror/resources/ext.CodeMirror.WikiEditor.js on line ~368. I don't see a [[Content Security Policy|CSP]] that could prevent window.close() in the code (but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there in the rendered version. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 09:30, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:Does it have to do with CodeMirror? Closing is prevented (by the module mediawiki.confirmCloseWindow) as long as the content of the textbox is different from when the page was opened. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 09:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::Indeed, but the script only closes the window when no typos can be fixed (so the content of the textbox has not changed). In any case I have "''Warn me when I leave an edit page with unsaved changes''" unchecked. I think the beforeunload eventlistener is the source of the problem. But I found a workaround, I just repeatedly attempt to close the window until it lets me. That works fine. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 09:48, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:::FWIW you could set a breakpoint for the beforeunload event in DevTools and see which script was preventing it. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 09:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::::True, but programming languages are a ''very'' dangerous rabbit hole for me. So for once I am going to use self-control. A simple workaround and a happy wife is better than an elegant solution and a divorce. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 10:18, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

== Audio generated with Score extension is inaudibly quiet ==

I was trying to listen to some audio found on the page for [[Lydian mode]], but none of the audio was playing.  Then I downloaded one of the generated MP3s, and saw that the volume level was extremely low, you can't hear anything at all.  Had to use a Normalize feature just to hear the music.

The audio is being generated using the MediaWiki extension called "[[mw:Extension:Score|Score]]". [[User:Dwedit|Dwedit]] ([[User talk:Dwedit|talk]]) 23:09, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Dwedit}} What operating system and browser are you using? On a phone/tablet/laptop/desktop pc? I don't see the bug [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/mediawiki-extensions-score/ on phabricator] (yet). I can't reproduce the problem. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 23:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::I am using Firefox on Windows 10.  But the problem is not only seen in the browser.  I can save the generated mp3 to my PC, then load it into a sound editor.  GoldWave sees the maximum amplitude level as 0.0385 (on a scale between 0 and 1).  I also tested Mp3Gain on this file.  After running Mp3Gain, I instead see a more reasonable maximum amplitude level of 0.3960, which is about 10 times louder than the original. [[User:Dwedit|Dwedit]] ([[User talk:Dwedit|talk]]) 23:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I downloaded the file from the first audio player on [[Lydian mode]] (rightclick-save audio as) and I ran <code>ffmpeg -i ~/Desktop/a.mp3 -filter:a loudnorm=print_format=json -f null -</code> and the output was: <syntaxhighlight lang=json>
"input_i" : "-39.23",
"input_tp" : "-27.57",
"input_lra" : "1.80",
"input_thresh" : "-49.79",
"output_i" : "-24.34",
"output_tp" : "-12.84",
"output_lra" : "1.10",
"output_thresh" : "-34.77",
"normalization_type" : "dynamic",
"target_offset" : "0.34"
</syntaxhighlight> So it is indeed rather quiet (-39.23 [[LUFS]]). But when playing it in VLC I just heard it at a normal volume because of its [https://wiki.videolan.org/VSG:Audio:Normalization/ Normalizer]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 23:37, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Just to add something to the conversation, in this case the `f_ebur128` filter may be more suitable. [[User:Hym3242|Hym3242]] ([[User talk:Hym3242|talk]]) 12:33, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

== Sortable table not sortable ==

The table at [[List of cities in Ivory Coast]] has the class "wikitable center sortable", none of the columns have the "unsortable" class yet the table is not sortable. I've tried (without saving) various changes (e.g. changing the class to "wikitable sortable", standardising the newline syntax) but nothing made any difference. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 22:08, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{doing}} It's because there are no header cells. The things that look like header cells are actually data cells styled to look like header cells (except for the background colour). I'll fix it. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:13, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Thryduulf}} {{done}}, with {{diff|List of cities in Ivory Coast|prev|1242082243|this edit}}. Apart from breaking the sorting, header cells faked-up from data cells are an accessibility issue. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:25, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 22:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

== Guidelines concerning presentation of HDR images in Wikipedia?  ==

Sometimes in articles concerning HDR technologies there is a need to present an HDR image.

I want to create a (public domain) rendition of ITU-R Rec. BT.2111 (an HDR&WCG color bars test signal image) to be used in article [[SMPTE_color_bars]]. It has to be presented with full PQ HDR and BT.2020 WCG to be able to illustrate properly.

I am considering AVIF since it seems to have better support and overall easier to understand if you know ffmpeg well. 

But considering that not all devices support HDR and/or WCG, do I need to also create a SDR version? maybe also a SDR & sRGB version?

For what it's worth, this test signal can be seen in some recent large scale high end television broadcasts (& the studios they are produced in) like the Paris Olympics.  [[User:Hym3242|Hym3242]] ([[User talk:Hym3242|talk]]) 12:24, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

:I don't know the answer as this isn't an area I have expertise in, but you may also be able to get answers over at Commons - in fact, they might know more about this. [[User:Suntooooth|Suntooooth]], it/he ([[User talk:Suntooooth|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Suntooooth|contribs]]) [[User:Suntooooth|Suntooooth]], it/he ([[User talk:Suntooooth|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Suntooooth|contribs]]) 09:15, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

== User:Anomie/lockout.js, but only on edit pages ==

I have a fork of [[User:Anomie/lockout.js]] in [[User:Suntooooth/common.js|my common.js]]. That script forces a Wikibreak between certain times of day on all pages, but I'd like to only force myself to stop ''editing'' between those times, not viewing pages - how can I make it only trigger on edit pages? [[User:Suntooooth|Suntooooth]], it/he ([[User talk:Suntooooth|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Suntooooth|contribs]]) 09:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:Below the line that says: "''(function(){''" you add: 
<pre>    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit') {
        return;
    }
</pre>
:In English that would be something like: "If I am not editing a page then stop executing this".
:If you are on Windows you could try https://getcoldturkey.com/
:[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 09:25, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::I'd rather not rely on an external program for this, since I could just uninstall it (and it wouldn't apply to mobile without a different program). But that code works great, thank you! :] [[User:Suntooooth|Suntooooth]], it/he ([[User talk:Suntooooth|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Suntooooth|contribs]]) 09:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

::{{ping|Suntooooth}} Cold Turkey has been hardened against such attempts (but indeed it won't work on mobile). [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 09:45, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Considering WP is the only site I need blocked it would be a bit overkill anyway :P I appreciate the offer of alternative solutions though. [[User:Suntooooth|Suntooooth]], it/he ([[User talk:Suntooooth|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Suntooooth|contribs]]) 09:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

==NOT a dark mode problem==
{{tracked|T371499}}
===but maybe a problem with reporting dark mode problems===
The ''Appearance'' menu has a link to ''Report an issue with dark mode'' which i just clicked ''by accident'' while on [[Wikipedia:Sandbox]]. No problem to report there at this time. [[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 06:57, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:So leave the form blank and, without saving, back out of it. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:30, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{reply to|Redrose64}} i didn't see any form... When i clicked the link, the words ''Report an issue with dark mode'' changed to something like ''Issue has been reported'' or ''Report submitted''... i forget the exact words. But you say a form is supposed to appear? In the same browser window or a new window? or a new tab? or a pop-up within the tab, like some websites' chat function? --[[Special:Contributions/173.67.42.107|173.67.42.107]] ([[User talk:173.67.42.107|talk]]) 12:25, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The form (which is really just the edit form for a talk page on [[:mediawikiwiki:]]) opens in a new tab. Confusingly, the menu says "Report received!" immediately upon clicking the link. But unless you click "Publish changes" on the edit form, no report is actually submitted. The message could be adjusted by asking an interface admin to edit [[MediaWiki:vector-night-mode-issue-reporting-link-notification]], but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort. [[User talk:Rummskartoffel|<span style="font-weight:normal;background:linear-gradient(90deg,#e40303,#ff8c00,#ffed00,#008026,#004dff,#750787);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text;">Rummskartoffel</span>]] 11:06, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
*Users without accounts can only click the problem button, it isn't a very good UX and they can't provide any details. This has been brought up to the devs already and may get improved in [[phab:T371499]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 11:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

== Only one coordinate allowed per article, but what if article about two places combined ==

I was making a draft for a temple complex which consists of two temples 200m apart (I am not creating separate articles for them for reasons). So I tried to give each one their coordinates in infobox. But this coordiates are automatically linked to article's coordinates, and so in the second temple's infobox it says {{red|<nowiki>{{#coordinates:}}</nowiki>: cannot have more than one primary tag per page}}. What could be done for this? [[User:ExclusiveEditor|<span style="background:Orange;color:White;padding:2px;">Exclusive</span><span style="background:black; color:White; padding:2px;">Editor</span>]] [[User talk:ExclusiveEditor|<sub>Notify Me!</sub>]] 14:14, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

:Give the article separate coordinates template for the 'complex', and in the infobox use display inline (non primary) coordinates for the specific sites. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 14:28, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

==Wait, are we disappearing people now? Do we have the user class "Unperson"?==
I'm bringing this here because it seems to be something coded into the software. 

When I write <nowiki>[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]]</nowiki>

It displays as [[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]]

This is done by the software. I gather that the slash obliterates her name because she is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=block&user=&page=BrownHairedGirl&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist blocked] with a term of "indefinite" (altho that is subject to appeal of course).

If it's a policy to now put a scarlet "A" on editors who have met the displeasure of the authorities, where was this discussed and enacted, and by whom, and why? I don't believe that this was done in former times (but even if it was that doesn't make it right). The editor in question is #2 on the list of most prolific editors by edit count. I don't know what she did, and it shouldn't matter. Maybe it was something indescribably horrible, or maybe it was insulting the wrong person or accidentally referring to someone by "xe" instead of "they". Who knows? Even assuming that she  absolutely should have been permablocked, so. It doesn't uncreate her contributions. I mean even Benedict Arnold has a monument at [[Battle of Saratoga|Saratoga]].

Since this is done automatically, it must be in the code and it looks like I can't override it per [[WP:IAR]] or the principle of "[[Wikipedia:Jerk|Don't be a jerk]]". That's why I'm bringing it here. If it's per some rule that was enacted, OK we can start there, and my first question would be "what is the ''purpose'' of this code"? If it's to inform the reader that the linked-to editor is no longer active, that'd have some use, but then you'd use it for all inactive editors and not call out just the ones that the authorities are mad at. If it's just to shame the editor, is this what we have become now.

If we're going to have a special mark automatically applied to user signatures, I can think of more important things to tell the reader if we must tell just one thing. "This user is an admin" would be quite useful for instance, or there are other things.

I'm hoping that this done by mistake and can be quickly fixed. Please let this be so. [[User:Herostratus|Herostratus]] ([[User talk:Herostratus|talk]]) 17:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:Sounds like you installed a script. To me, there is no difference between that name and yours and mine (except the different letters of course). [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 17:48, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::Or enabled the "Strike out usernames that have been blocked" gadget in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 17:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Huh. You're correct. Seems odd because it's only started happening recently, and I didn't enable it at least not intentionally, and it's not the sort of thing I would enable. But my hand must have slipped or something. Nevermind, sorry, and thanks. [[User:Herostratus|Herostratus]] ([[User talk:Herostratus|talk]]) 18:24, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:Also, there are various scripts to mark Admins as such, see [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Gadget_to_display_a_user's_rights]]. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 17:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, yes I see, thank you. Well, the world is so full of a number of things, I think that we all should be happy as kings. Well, sorry about going off half-cocked, but that's me all over. Thanks again. [[User:Herostratus|Herostratus]] ([[User talk:Herostratus|talk]]) 18:29, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

== Template:"AllMovie name" broken links ==

Can anyone attempt to fix this template, please? Some of the links it produces have been broken for at least a month, see [[Template talk:AllMovie name#broken]]. [[Special:Contributions/2001:999:788:EEA1:A8A4:9F63:5C5C:2051|2001:999:788:EEA1:A8A4:9F63:5C5C:2051]] ([[User talk:2001:999:788:EEA1:A8A4:9F63:5C5C:2051|talk]]) 15:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

:it seems to me that allmovie broke their url schema (again) without providing redirects. Not sure if there is a way to fix this. couldn't find anything. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 16:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::More like they can't figure out how to classify animals in their own system, see for example [[:d:Q6192329#P2019]] for the history. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;">'''Sjoerd de Bruin'''</span>]] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:#325186;"><small>(talk)</small></span>]]  08:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

== "Remember me" not working as intended for me ==
{{tracked|T372702}}

Exactly as title. The checkbox states that it would last a year, yet sometimes I would find myself not logged in even though I am using the same device, same browser, etc. It is just a mild annoyance, but can someone give me pointers on how to fix this? Thanks in advance. —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 01:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

:Could happen if you log out on another device in the meantime.  [[user:Hgzh|hgzh]] 10:51, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::But I am only using this one device logged in, and I'm quite sure my account wasn't hacked (hopefully(?)). —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 11:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:Anything that clears or blocks your local storage (cookies) can invalidate your saved logon. Some browser or browser extension updates can cause this. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:10, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
::FWIW I was logged out unexpectedly under similar circumstances on the day this was posted as well. I use Windows primarily with Chrome; if you also have a similar configuration, that *could* be an explanation. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 04:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Well I am using windows and chrome, but this combination is probably so widespread that I would assume it is not where the problem is, or a lot more people would have reported this already. —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 04:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|Mint Keyphase}} Do you use [[uBlock Origin]] like me? That's the only thing I think we could have in common. But even that would be a pretty common combination .... it could've just been bad luck. I suspect a lot of people wouldn't report being unexpectedly logged out, because it's a relatively minor inconvenience; I certainly didn't think to. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 12:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Nope —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 04:13, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::Using Linux + Chrome: I was logged out today, after a Chrome s/w update. <span class="nowrap">[[User:Verbarson|--&nbsp;Verbarson&nbsp;]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Verbarson|talk]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Verbarson|edits]]</sub></span> 15:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:How often does this happen? Every time you close the browser? Shut down the computer? Can you log in to other websites with the same browser and they persist just fine? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 15:59, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::Well, other websites like Fandom don't seem to be affected. But a similar thing happens on Edge for the website of a tutoring service, which may or may not be related(?) —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 10:46, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::And the first question? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 23:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Kinda random, to be honest, at first it was like twice a week, now it is once every two weeks or so. —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 02:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Does your device have any kind of storage problem; if there is cookies are likely to be auto-deleted. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 04:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I don't think so. —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 03:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:I’ve been noticing a similar thing. Most of the time I get auto logged back in the moment I hit log in, but sometimes I get fully logged out. I use WIN11+Brave and IOS+Safari. [[User:Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#008080;">Lord</span>''']][[User_talk:Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#B8860B;">serious</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#FF7F50;">pig</span>''']]  04:32, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::If it's as infrequent as once every couple of weeks (and I'm guessing you use Wikipedia considerably more frequently than that), then I'm going with you either logged out on another device or you logged out from some other Wikimedia website.  For most web services, your session is tied to your browser or browser instance, but on Wikimedia, when you logout from any Wikimedia session on any browser instance or any computer, you will be logged out on all instances. [[User:Fabrickator|Fabrickator]] ([[User talk:Fabrickator|talk]]) 04:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The one where I only have to click login once happens daily. [[User:Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#008080;">Lord</span>''']][[User_talk:Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#B8860B;">serious</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Lordseriouspig|'''<span style="color:#FF7F50;">pig</span>''']]  05:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm having the same issue; Sometimes I am logged out and a message comes up saying "You're Centrally Logged In" and I'm logged in automatically; Sometimes I am logged out and logged back in when I press the log in button; Sometimes I have to re-enter my log in credentials again to log in. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 06:24, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::As I recall, I was seeing that business of being logged out and a message came up saying "You're Centrally logged in" and then I would be logged in automatically a few weeks ago, but not lately. Editing only from a chromebook. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 15:43, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::Being logged out when you visit a new wiki but becoming logged in when you reload the page, or when you click login (but without actually having to submit a login form) is sort of normal on Safari and Brave, as these browsers limit cross-domain state transfer for privacy reasons. AIUI it shouldn't happen on Chrome though, at least not with default settings. [[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 00:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I was opening pages on other language wikis around that time, but I don't remember if the message was tied to that. Definitely using Chrome browser on the chromebook. I do have Grammarly, Acrobat Extension, Malwarebytes, Wayback Machine, Who Wrote That and RSS Feed Reader loaded, all with access to the WP tabs. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 01:50, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
:::But, it's not only happening while visiting a new wiki; it's happening on en-wiki recurrently. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 03:31, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That sounds like maybe your browser has trouble saving cookies for enwiki (<code>en.wikipedia.org</code> and <code>.wikipedia.org</code>)? You could try deleting the existing cookies and see if it helps. (In theory MediaWiki automatically deletes invalid cookies to prevent such issues, but maybe that doesn't work for some reason.) [[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 21:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::It happend on MediaWiki site also. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 01:17, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

As the issue does not seem easily reproducible, I left some questions at [[phab:T372702#10075955]] - if you have been experiencing it and can answer some of them, that would be very helpful. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 23:54, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]]: I encountered the problem again on en-wiki a while ago; and used the DevTools to figure out what went wrong, and I got this message,<br/>{{tq|One or more websites are allowed to bypass user settings to set third-party cookies on this page. Microsoft Edge no longer supports third-party cookies and web developers should take steps to remove these sets without disrupting user experience.}}<br/>Also this [https://developers.google.com/privacy-sandbox/cookies page on Google for Developers site] says that Third-party cookies are being deprecated in chromium browsers. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>[[User talk:Vestrian24Bio|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#0078D7;">'''''TALK'''''</span>]]</small>) 12:19, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::See [[phab:T345249|T345249]] about that. But third-party cookies are only involved in automatic login, not when you enter your username and password in a login form. [[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 20:28, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I thought it was just a small problem on my end that wouldn't be too hard to fix, but seeing how this is going, I am fairly certain that this isn't the case... Guess I'll have to watch that upper right corner carefully before I edit. —[[User:Mint Keyphase|Mint Keyphase]] ([[User talk:Mint Keyphase|Did I mess up?]] ''' ''' [[Special:Contributions/Mint Keyphase|What have I done?]]) 11:19, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

== AFD Stats down ==


Any chance getting AFD Stats back up? Below is the message that comes up. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 11:12, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Traceback (most recent call last): File "/data/project/afdstats/pyvenv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pymysql/connections.py", line 644, in connect sock = socket.create_connection( File "/usr/lib/python3.9/socket.py", line 822, in create_connection for res in getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, SOCK_STREAM): File "/usr/lib/python3.9/socket.py", line 953, in getaddrinfo for res in _socket.getaddrinfo(host, port, family, type, proto, flags): socket.gaierror: [Errno -3] Temporary failure in name resolution During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/data/project/afdstats/public_html/afdstats.py", line 112, in main db = pymysql.connect( File "/data/project/afdstats/pyvenv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pymysql/connections.py", line 358, in __init__ self.connect() File "/data/project/afdstats/pyvenv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pymysql/connections.py", line 711, in connect raise exc pymysql.err.OperationalError: (2003, "Can't connect to MySQL server on 'enwiki.web.db.svc.wikimedia.cloud' ([Errno -3] Temporary failure in name resolution)") None
Fatal error.

:I asked over at [[:User_talk:0xDeadbeef#AfD_stats]] but I have no idea if that is the correct place to ask. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 11:15, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] if you are referring to [https://afdstats.toolforge.org/ afdstats], this is an external tool; the maintainers are listed at that bottom of that page, with links to where bugs can be reported. Those are the only people that can help with this. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 12:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Xaosflux}} I have no experience with this kinda stuff but I figured that since Enterprisey and Σ are inactive, and Enterprisey listed 0xDeadbeef on their talkpage as a maintainer of apersonbot, which also runs on Toolforge, that 0xDeadbeef may have the required access to fix the tool as well. Can you explain a bit more? It would be bad if each tool had a bus factor of 1. Enterprisey's talkpage contains {{tq|Time to finally touch some grass. May be back someday. You can consider my projects "unmaintained"; I would be happy to help anyone looking to take on maintenance of any of them. In particular, Legoktm and 0xDeadbeef are the two other maintainers of apersonbot on Toolforge and should thus be your first point of contact for any of those projects.}} People seem to inherit or adopt Toolforge tools from others when someone becomes inactive. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] "AFD stats" isn't part of the English Wikipedia; so our volunteers can't do anything about it. Most anyone can run tools on toolforge, each tool is managed only by the specific owners of that tool. If all the owners of a tool quit, there is a process where the toolforge admins can let someone else become the maintainer. "apersonbot" and "AFD stats" have nothing to do with eachother. "AFD stats" has a maintainer, {{noping|Σ}} who is still around - so their talk page is where to bring up problems with their tool. Note, they have a notice on their talk page that if you want them to look at something, you should also email them. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:03, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you! I wasn't sure if the accounts were tied to a person (or persons) or to a specific tool. I will send Σ an email. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 13:06, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::It [https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/afdstats looks like it has several maintainers]; pinging [[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]], [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]].<span id="Qwerfjkl:1724427323740:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:35, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</span>
::::::<small>Would be nice if the maintainers would maintain a consistent list of maintainers! — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 18:46, 23 August 2024 (UTC) </small>
:::::::<small>You'd have to talk to one of [https://gitlab.wikimedia.org/toolforge-repos/afdstats/-/project_members these folks] about updating the source code to list the current maintainers. I have server access but not source access.</small><span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 19:58, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]]: sorry, that was an oversight. I've added you to the GitLab repository as an owner. Let me know if there's any other access you're missing. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 06:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Maile66|Maile66]] et al: I have no idea what the problem was, but restarting the webservice seems to have fixed it. Feel free to ping me if you're seeing other errors. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 19:54, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]], Thanks.  [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 21:04, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks, I've [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/afdstats/-/commit/7e80d453499ea292c676b1b52a09f6a32130fc40|added]] (in theory) automatic restarts if it gets stuck in the future so this hopefully doesn't happen again. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 07:00, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] Not sure it would help in this case, as the webserver was serving pages correctly but afdstats.py couldn't communicate with the SQL server, but still a good idea. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 13:32, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

== How to fix strat Footnote? ==

Inside the {{Section link|Vizhinjam International Seaport Thiruvananthapuram|Further reading}} is a {{Tl|Efn}} but because it's after {{Section link|Vizhinjam International Seaport Thiruvananthapuram|Notes}} section it causes an error. Any ideas? ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 23:52, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

:Don't put an efn after the notes section. Don't put something that isn't further reading in the further reading section.
:Either will fix the issue. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:40, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:As the Efn contained only a citation, I removed the Efn container, leaving the <nowiki><ref>citation</ref></nowiki>. I also fixed the Sfn error. Sfn does not work properly with a long citation in the Further reading section. Moved long citation to a new Sources section. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 02:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
::Just because [[User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors.js]] emits an error message does not mean that {{tq|Sfn does not work properly with a long citation in the Further reading section}}.  {{tlx|sfn}} can and does link to long-form citations in §Further reading so {{tld|sfn}} works correctly.  The {{color|DarkOrange|Harv error: linked from CITEREFAECOM2013}} error message means that the long form citation is in the wrong section.  Do not assign blame to {{tld|sfn}} when the real blame belongs to the editor who placed (or left) the long-form citation in the wrong section.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 03:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Shushugah}} The fundamental problem here is that the [[Vizhinjam International Seaport Thiruvananthapuram#Further reading|Further reading section]] contains something that isn't "further reading". At the time of your post it was this: <syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext>*According to the Master Plan, Vizhinjam Port has a natural depth that minimizes or eliminates the need for dredging.{{efn|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://vizhinjamport.in/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Addendum-to-Final-MPR_23052013-FINAL-REPORT.pdf|title=Addendum to Final MPR, Vizhinjam International Seaport|year=2023}}</ref>}}</syntaxhighlight> which has since been simplified to this: <syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext>*According to the Master Plan, Vizhinjam Port has a natural depth that minimizes or eliminates the need for dredging.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://vizhinjamport.in/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Addendum-to-Final-MPR_23052013-FINAL-REPORT.pdf|title=Addendum to Final MPR, Vizhinjam International Seaport|year=2023}}</ref></syntaxhighlight> but that is prose text, it belongs somewhere before the [[Vizhinjam International Seaport Thiruvananthapuram#See also|See also section]], most probably in the [[Vizhinjam International Seaport Thiruvananthapuram#Infrastructure and characteristics|Infrastructure and characteristics section]]. I suggest moving the problem text to there, but with duplication removed. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

== Transcluded links ==
{{tracked|T301648}}
Sometimes it is useful to see what other articles link to an article directly, as opposed to from templates. For example, this would help when considering the impact of a page move, or considering changing links to the page title into links to a redirect to a section in the page. 

When I click on "What links here" I get a list that by default shows all links. It lets me check a box "Hide transclusions", which removes transclusions from the article itself and its talk page, but leaves links from all the pages that transclude a template containing the link. Is there any way to remove links from the transcluded templates? [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 15:55, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:Not with WhatLinksHere, but you can search pages' wikitext with insource:.  [[User:PrimeHunter/Source links.js]] automates it. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 16:23, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. That works and solves my problem. Would it be worth asking it to be added to WhatLinksHere? [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 17:12, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:::We've been [[phab:T3392|asking for decades]]. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 17:24, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::One more for [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29&oldid=724187004#What_links_here_.2F_templates the list]. On a more serious note, {{ping|Cryptic}}, shouldn't the WMF be fixing all these phabricator tickets? And if they aren't, why not riot or strike until they are forced to? Volunteers waste a lot of time working around imperfections that should just get fixed. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 17:44, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::Normally you'd be preaching to the choir - why pay people to fix decades-old bugs when we could have them redesign the default skin again? - but this one is legitimately difficult.  Like, if someone writes <nowiki>{{tl|uw-vandalism1}}</nowiki> &rarr; {{tl|uw-vandalism1}} on a page, should that count as a link to [[Template:uw-vandalism1]]?  If so - and in my opinion it ''should'' - then how do you distinguish it from uses of {{tl|Multi notice links}}? —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 17:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::I am not smart enough to even pretend to be smart enough to be able to fix many of these problems. But I am (barely) smart enough to run in to them. We should riot and strike until they hire enough brains to make a serious dent in these old phabricator tickets. If we don't succeed then at least we had fun. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 18:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Perhaps the early request was ignored because it seemed debatable. Templated links are real links, and it could be useful to see how many of these links lead to a given article. I would phrase it as '''adding''' a new option to WhatLinksHere, maybe called "Source links only", that would display results from an insource: search for the current page name. If someone on this side could write the search in a convenient format (not me!) that would make it easy for them. [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 19:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Aymatth2}} Is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#c-Cryptic-20240825162300-Aymatth2-20240825155500 this] what you mean? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 07:03, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::[[ User:PrimeHunter/Source links.js]] does the job, and I thought it could be useful as an option in WhatLinksHere. But see the discussion below on {{tl|main}}, {{tl|for}} etc. [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 13:38, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Or, how about a moratorium on new phab tickets until all of the existing ones are cleared? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::So no more phab tickets ever? [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 20:45, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::🙄 [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Sounds like a recipe for a bot run to triage everything as {{won't fix}}, followed by devs manually reactivating assigned tickets they actually plan to work on. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 11:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:The English Wikipedia could add a version of {{tl|source links}} to [[MediaWiki:Linkshere]] which is displayed at WhatLinksHere. For example, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/971 (number)]] would say "{{source links|971 (number)}}" without all the articles which are just transcluding {{t|Integers}}. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
::I’d support this! I wish it would show <nowiki>{{tl|Main}}</nowiki> as an example of “source link” though because that’s not meant to be transcluded a hundred times the way a link in a Navigation box template might. If it’s integrated in MediaWiki:Linkshere it would be worthwhile examining some edge cases  ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 12:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I agree with the point on {{tl|main}}, and would add disambiguation and redirection hatnote templates such as {{tl|for}}. I suspect there are other cases like this, where a template is used to format a link to a related page, as opposed to linking to all the pages in a group that have something in common. Perhaps the tool could optionally look for template instances that have the page name as an argument: <nowiki>{{foo|bah|</nowiki>'''''searchterm'''''|abc}}.This may be getting far too elaborate. [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 13:13, 26 August 2024 (UTC)