View source for Wikipedia talk:Getting to Philosophy

{{Talk header}}
{{Press
 |author      = Colin Marshall
 |title       = Do All Roads Lead to Philosophy on Wikipedia?: They Do About 97.3% of the Time
 |date        = September 19, 2024
 |org         = Open Culture
 |url         = https://www.openculture.com/2024/09/do-all-roads-lead-to-philosophy-on-wikipedia-they-do-about-97-3-of-the-time.html
 |lang        = 
 |quote       =  There is, of course, a Wikipedia page about this, called “Getting to Philosophy.”
 |archiveurl  = 
 |archivedate = <!-- do not wikilink -->
 |accessdate  = September 20, 2024
}}

== TikTok video ==

I learned about Getting to Philosophy from [https://www.tiktok.com/@depthsofwikipedia/video/7004969659955023110 this TikTok video]. = [[User:Paul2520|paul2520]] [[User talk:Paul2520|💬]] 15:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

:This might not be the best forum to discuss anecdotes... [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines]] [[User:Adeeta|Adeeta]] ([[User talk:Adeeta|talk]]) 21:10, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
:Me too! I'm very honoured to see people who are just like me. [[User:1204753792 edits|1204753792 edits]] ([[User talk:1204753792 edits|talk]]) 05:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
:I found out about this from the mouseover text on [[xkcd:903/|XKCD #903]]. The beginning of the "every page on the internet will lead to the wikipedia philosophy page" conspiracy emerges... [[User:Kittyguy210|Kittyguy210]] ([[User talk:Kittyguy210|talk]]) 20:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

== Cited example no longer true? ==

The section "Method summarized" states that as of Dec 9, 2021, there is a chain from this article (Getting to Philosophy) to the article on Philosophy. This no longer seems to be the case. The article for Fact now seems to lead back to True via the first blue link. I am not experienced enough with wikipedia revisions to know for sure what has changed, but this means that any path to philosophy that goes through the Fact article now ends up in a loop.

This means that the cited example in this article is no longer true. The statistics about the number of articles which eventually lead back to Philosophy are also probably drastically reduced due to this new loop.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.196.231.52|74.196.231.52]] ([[User talk:74.196.231.52#top|talk]]) 00:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Edit:
the above does appear to be the case, as on Dec 17th a link to True was added in the first line of Fact:
https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Fact&diff=1060708543&oldid=1052461341  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.196.231.52|74.196.231.52]] ([[User talk:74.196.231.52#top|talk]]) 00:18, 22 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:In the [[truth]] page, if the links for [[fact]] and [[reality]] were switched, it would go like this:
:*[[Truth]] → [[Reality]] → [[Object of the mind]] → [[Object (philosophy)]] → [[Philosophy]]{{Tick}}
:[[Special:Contributions/172.112.210.32|172.112.210.32]] ([[User talk:172.112.210.32|talk]]) 01:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
::Yes, lots of chains to philosophy like [[Abstraction]] and [[Awareness]] have links, one loops back, one goes to philosophy. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 08:40, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
::I do think that WP:GTP is not true anymore. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 12:13, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

== Philosophy number ==

I feel like it would be a good idea to say how many pages take 1 click to philosophy or 2 or 3 etc. Maybe the number of clicks it takes to get there would be its philosophy number, with Philosophy being 0 and eg. phenomenon or heirarchy being 1 click away, having a philosophy number of 1


[[User:Periodicpro18|Periodicpro18]] ([[User talk:Periodicpro18|talk]]) 20:47, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

== This applies to this article ==

Very cool [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:8C80:2060:925:5291:62E2:8E0C|2600:8800:8C80:2060:925:5291:62E2:8E0C]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:8C80:2060:925:5291:62E2:8E0C|talk]]) 09:24, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

== Longest Path (as of 12/19/22) ==

So I was putting together a side project about this phenomenon, taking all articles and finding their lengths to Philosophy, and I think I found a contender for the longest path: [[Parmouti 12]]. Thanks to the structure of the "Coptic Calendar" pages, it goes from that day backwards through the calendar until it reaches [[Thout 1]], which ''then'' links to [[Coptic calendar]] due to the next previous link not existing, which then follows a standard route through some religious pages until reaching Philosophy. In total, the path is a whopping '''241 articles long'''! I feel like something of this sort of significance should be encapsulated somewhere in the page, but I'm not sure where it would go, especially since I don't have a source besides my own research. It's especially interesting since the next longest link is from [[Paoni 12]], which is another article about the Coptic calendar, but that's only 61 articles away (since there isn't a page for Parmouti 30).

Interestingly, if each of these articles first linked to Coptic calendar, they would have links of 20. If they instead linked to the page for their month, they wouldn't reach Philosophy at all (they would loop at [[Mathematics]])! [[User:JazzHandsIncarnate|JazzHandsIncarnate]] ([[User talk:JazzHandsIncarnate|talk]]) 19:49, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

:Also mildly interesting, the next longest non-Coptic calendar path I could find is from [[Eochaid Gonnat]], at '''46 articles long'''. This path is as long as it is because each of the articles following it start with "X, son of Y", with Y being a link to their parent. [[User:JazzHandsIncarnate|JazzHandsIncarnate]] ([[User talk:JazzHandsIncarnate|talk]]) 20:27, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
:Good for the dedication of spending that long clicking links over and over! [[Special:Contributions/12.86.69.234|12.86.69.234]] ([[User talk:12.86.69.234|talk]]) 19:36, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
:Its Paoni 15 now. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 12:24, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:Wait mathematics does not loop anymore [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 12:25, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

== Articles that dont lead to philosophy ==

Ive been following this as a school project, so far i've only found one link that does not lead to philosophy and that is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoline_Hausted as it leads all to dead links, i'm not sure if this counts or not but it would be interesting to see what other pages don't end up at philosophy. [[Special:Contributions/197.159.50.163|197.159.50.163]] ([[User talk:197.159.50.163|talk]]) 10:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:Name -> Referent -> Name is one [[User:Clayel|Clayel]] ([[User talk:Clayel|talk]]) 00:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I must be doing something wrong; I always go back through etymology pages until I end up on Wiktionary instead. Am I breaking the rules? Should I maybe only go to Wikipedia links? --timhortonsconspiracist who is hopeless without the visual editor; go ahead and change this part if you're good at source editing  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/107.185.8.191|107.185.8.191]] ([[User talk:107.185.8.191#top|talk]]) 22:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Getting to Philosophy Phenomenon Gone ==

I think it doesn't work anymore. Some edits seems to have changed the tail end of this chain, such that most article chains now end up at a loop of 
Logic -> Logical Reasoning -> Inference -> Reason --> Logic.

Tried many times and still doesn't work. [[User:Genius150|Genius150]] ([[User talk:Genius150|talk]]) 14:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

:I've also noticed this on some scale, with the loop being Concept -> Abstraction -> Rules of inference -> Logic -> Reasoning -> Conclusion -> Concept [[User:Clayel|Clayel]] ([[User talk:Clayel|talk]]) 00:16, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

::This isn't new, see [[Wikipedia talk:Getting to Philosophy/Archive 1]]. Given constantly-changing article content, loops may appear and disappear over time. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 00:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
::Hey! Now the loop is Abstraction -> Concept -> Abstraction. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 12:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

== Has Psychology taken over this phenomenon? ==

I tried this on two random articles and ended up at a loop with the Psychology page.

[[mind]] - [[thought]] - [[Consciousness]] - [[Awareness]] - [[Psychology]]

Started at [[Gennaro Calì]] and [[C8H14O2]] also [[Əliquluuşağı]] and [[Sant'Andrea Forisportam, Pisa]] and [[Parkhurst (crater)]] and [[Logistics specialist]] and [[Pat Wellington]]

each random article I view leads to the Psychology loop.

[[User:Brian R Hunter|Brian R Hunter]] ([[User talk:Brian R Hunter|talk]]) 21:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== GIF idea which might be more explanatory? ==

https:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Getting_to_philosophy_through_%22Wikipedia_Getting_through_Philosophy%22.gif

I made this gif which I believe might be more visual than the current one. It also uses this very page to demonstrate the effect - might spare some other users the trouble. Wanted rando's thoughts about it and potentially about putting it on the page [[Special:Contributions/87.88.164.141|87.88.164.141]] ([[User talk:87.88.164.141|talk]]) 16:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

:It looks good, it would be nice if you made into some kind of file in Wikipedia or Wikimedia commons so it can actually be used. [[User:Abdullah raji|Abdullah raji]] ([[User talk:Abdullah raji|talk]]) 10:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

== Consciousness-Awareness loop ==

This doesn't seem to be the case anymore, there now seems to be a loop between awareness and consciousness as of 11/27/2023. Even philosophy feeds into this loop. [[Special:Contributions/57.140.28.22|57.140.28.22]] ([[User talk:57.140.28.22|talk]]) 20:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

== Phenomenon or end goal? ==

As I've read through some of these talk page sections, including in the <code>Archive 1</code>, it's become seemingly apparent that when a page does not meet the criteria for this phenomenon, that page or some page in the chain is edited to rectify that. While at one point this came up and was seen as a [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive226#Users_playing_"Get_to_Philosophy"_game_to_the_detriment_of_Wikipedia|"detriment" to Wikipedia]], I'm not trying to imply that this is the case this time around, twelve years later. Some changes in this regard, such as <span class="plainlinks">[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Karoline_Hausted&diff=next&oldid=1120653633 this one]</span> adding a couple of valid page links before a redlink, can easily be seen as necessary. But it's gotten to the point where I do not think that it can truly be called a "phenomenon", as it does seem to be "rectified" in ways that are ''not'' detrimental to the site. It's almost become more of a de facto child project of [[WP:DEORPHAN]]. [[User:Schiffy|<font color="000999">Schiffy</font>]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|<font color="FF6600">Speak to me</font>]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|<font color="FF0000">What I've done</font>]]) 19:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

:Yes - like the Philosophy-Psychology order in Awareness. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 08:37, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
:Also, when some link orders are switched so they do not go to philosophy or form a loop, these are undone. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 08:40, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== Abstraction ==

I noticed that lots of articles led to Abstraction. Abstraction was edited so [[concept]]s and [[rule of inference|rules]] would be switched. [[Concept]] leads back to [[Abstraction]], forming a loop. Communication leads to Abstraction too. Now it's a loop. [[User:Tulurm|Tulurm]] ([[User talk:Tulurm|talk]]) 08:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== This article leads to philosophy ==

Because of course it does... [[User:Nithsk|Nithsk]] ([[User talk:Nithsk|talk]]) 19:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

== Rules Clarification ==

my friends and I were messing around with this phenomenon, and we encountered a couple of edge cases.

for one, if a link is a species' scientific name, which are normally italicized, would that be skipped as other italicized links are?

for two, what should you do if the first link leads to a topic within the same article, would you detour to the main article, if available, go to the first link in the topic, or go to the next valid link in the main article?  [[Special:Contributions/50.230.216.101|50.230.216.101]] ([[User talk:50.230.216.101|talk]]) 19:20, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

:This is not a formalized game: I would encourage you to adopt whatever rules you find most interesting. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 19:23, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

== should the (currently existing) big loop which includes philosophy be included in the article? ==

I think that would help people understand why philosophy is the end.
it wopould also impact the idea if "philosophy number", since philosophy itself would have something between 10 and 15 (i have not counted it precisely)
i tried adding that, but it was immediately reverted [[User:Wikipedian speaking English, German and Russian|Wikipedian speaking English, German and Russian]] ([[User talk:Wikipedian speaking English, German and Russian|talk]]) 10:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)