View source for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sydney

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'''Archives:'''
[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sydney/Archive 1|1]] |

== re-starting this talk page ==
Sydney Project deserves more than a ten year old redirect to AWNB - it seems general conversation has receded to meetup pages and links. [[User:JarrahTree|JarrahTree]] 10:56, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

== Feeling ambitious? ==

This website's full of information on Sydney's suburbs. Don't know how accurate it is though. Maybe someone with enough time and energy can syphon it into Wikipedia in some way or another. Also, copyright issues may need to be considered. [http://www.id.com.au/dosydney/default.asp] -- [[User:Jasabella|Jasabella]] 10:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: About the copyright issue: The dictionary of Sydney seems keen to try and release stuff under some sort of an open license [http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/www/html/149-copyright--ip.asp].  They mention creative commons.  This is probably the time for Wikipedians to interect with the Dictionary of Sydney to try and convince them to make their license compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 13:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== SydneySuburbsBox2 ==

Just wondering, is the sydneysuburbsbox2 really neccessary (it's on a lot of the canterbury LGA suburbs and more)? The more I look at the box, the more I think that it doesn't fit in. Is there a discussion page on this somewhere? Aside from relevance, I'm also questioning what suburbs get put into those boxes (e.g. what defines 'near'?) and where we're getting the "this suburb is south-east of this one" info from? Do we have our own little map that we're using as an authority on this to make it easier to do this? Bringing this up because the first time I saw the one for [[Lakemba, New South Wales]] I didn't think it was correct. Mentioned this in [[Talk:Lakemba, New South Wales]] but I don't think there's much discussion going on there. [[User:Blu3d|Blu3d]] 16:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

:Personally I hate it and I would readily vote for it to be deleted. But I won't nominate it I'll just remove it from pages and '''never''' ''ever'' ever use it myself.--[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 04:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

: I agree, it looks silly, especially at or near the top of the page. If it must stay, i vote move it to the bottom. [[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 02:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

: Actually I quite like them, it'd be easier to put info like area, population, postcode, state district, etc in the infoboxes rather than in sentences. I do agree about the "this suburb is south-east of this one" argument though, it looks really queer esp. when 'incomplete' in the Lakemba page. [[User:Hectic18|Hectic18]] 10:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

== "Sydney SD" from census ==

Throughout [http://www.blacktown.nsw.gov.au/our-city/statistics/suburb-profiles.cfm The 2001 City of Blacktown Social Plan ] they refer to the "Sydney SD" being the Sydney Statistical Division.
Is this "the same as" the Sydney greater metropolitan area? Is there a preferred phrase for that "area", and how far does it extend?
is it
* the greater Sydney metropolitan area or
* the Sydney greater metrololitan area

* or should there be more capitals in there

or does nobody really care?
--[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 04:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

:The Sydney SD includes the Central Coast, and in my opinion does not match any commonly used notion of Sydney. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 10:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

:It also includes the Blue Mountains and part of the Southern Highlands.[[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 01:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

== Scope ==

With regard to WP: Sydney, is the "scope" "any article related to any topic which is within any of the suburbs listed as being suburbs of Sydney"?
There seem to be "a few" definitions of what is "in/not in" "Sydney", I am trying to go through shopping centres - there were a lot of Sydney ones straight in [[:Category:Shopping centres in Australia]], I have created [[:Category:Shopping centres in New South Wales]] & [[:Category:Shopping centres in Sydney]] - but are
* Hustville
* Cronulla
* Wollongong 
* Cowra
* Hornsby
* Tuggerah 
* Newcastle
* Parramatta
* Penrith
* Lithgow
* Bathurst
in Sydney, or New South Wales?
(yeah, that list is facetious but lets see who draws the line where!)
--[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 01:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
: It came out in a recent discussion on [[Talk:Sydney]]  that the Geographical Names Board of NSW [http://www.gnb.nsw.gov.au/name/extract?id=TRlpoerXGH defines] Sydney city as: "The inner city area is located on the southern shores of Port Jackson, but the city extends to the north, south and west for many km."  How big is "many km"?  Maybe Sydney doesn't have an official boundary?  I wonder who decides where those brown "Welcome to Sydney" signs go on the "edge" of Sydney? [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 01:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
::I don't think that the GNB are attempting to "define" the extent of Sydney in that statement. I don't think there is an official boundary, although there are obviously well defined boundaries in specific contexts that may or may not agree with each other. As Garrie suggested at [[Talk:Sydney]], it may be worth following the results of the discussion at [[Talk:List of Sydney suburbs]] - it covers the LGAs considered part of Sydney by the Department of Local Government, and places such as Richmond on the inside of the Hawkesbury River. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 10:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

== Getting articles created ==

Articles listed on {{: Template:Australia opentask}} come out on the top of [[Special:Wantedpages]], due to how often {{: Template:Australia opentask}} is called in .
This has resulted in [[Azrael (band)]] being created by a user because '''if they weren't notable they wouldn't be #2 on the wanted pages list'''.
{{: Template:Sydney tasks}} is too big to display, so it is rarely used on pages, so the requests on it don't recieve any publicity - so they are not created.  [[Sydney Children's Hospital]] has been on there for ages, I'm sure it's more notable than [[Azrael (band)]]?

Anyway - if we can keep an eye on {{: Template:Australia opentask}} and move some requests from {{: Template:Sydney tasks}} onto the other, more commonly used template, maybe some of the Sydney articles might get created? Even stubs are better than red links, aren't they?--[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


==Buses in Sydney- AfD help needed==
Hi all.... 
*[[Sydney bus routes 200-299]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 300-399]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 400-499]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 500-599]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 600-699]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 700-799]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 800-899]]
*[[Sydney bus routes 900-999]]
*[[Sydney bus routes N00-N99]]
*[[List of bus routes in Sydney]]
have all been nominated for deletion. As the author of these pages, I encourage you all to have a look and see what you think, and if you think the pages should stay then please contribute to the discussion (and of course, improve the articles if you wish!). Many thanks, and apologies if this is not the right place to air this issue. [[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 12:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:And of course people should contribute to the discussion if they think that those lists should be deleted or merged. The deletion discussion is at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sydney bus routes 100-199]]
:--[[User:Mako|Mako]] 14:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

*After some contemplation, I've realised that what is wrong with these articles is their focus. They're simply listing dry facts and travel information and offer no insight or understanding into why bus transport is important. In a comment on the AFD page I've suggested that the bus route pages should be replaced with pages offering ''knowledge'' (history of bus routes, operators, usage, importance to community) rather than simply ''information''. I'll try to make some additions to [[Buses in Sydney]] over the next few days that could be used as a basis for what would make good articles such as [[Buses in Western Sydney]] or [[Buses in Sydney Eastern Suburbs]]. Others in Project Sydney (especially those with a particular interest in public transport) might already have this knowledge (I'm sure it exists in books and reports), so I encourage them to contribute in this way (keeping in mind [[WP:NOR]]) --[[User:Mako|Mako]] 23:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
:Articles on Buses in Western Sydney wouldn't work, by the bus company's own nature, and the fact that "East Sydney" and "Western Sydney" are such vague notions. Lists on WP are allowed to have dry facts and no information— check out stuff like this: [[List of judges of the High Court of Australia]] - that doesn't tell me about the High Court. It's a list of facts. The article [[High Court of Australia]] tells me that. I think you should read [[WP:LIST]] before you make decisions like this. They are different from your normal articles. ([[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 08:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC))
:*I'd like to draw your attention to the first bullet point in [[WP:LIST#Types of lists]]. [[List of judges of the High Court of Australia]] is ''a list of links to articles''. The lists I nominated for deletion are not.--[[User:Mako|Mako]] 08:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
::Looks like I recreated these with different names—before reading this discussion. My bad. As long as they're there, here's your opportunity to add more information to them. The N-series information is on the [[NightRide]] page, which I would think is safe from deletion. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 06:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:::*Have you had a look at what's already on [[Buses in Sydney]]?? [[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 10:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::::*I have. I think it's too long. There is relevant and specific information about the individual regions. Separating the information out in this way mirrors our treatment of [[CityRail]] lines (to an extent) [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 10:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::*If you scroll up you will see that there was a major AfD debate a few months back regarding a group of '''very''' similar pages to what you have written. I would hate to see your hard work be wasted on another lost Afd debate. [[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 10:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

== CityRail line colours ==

I recently checked the colours used for CityRail articles and found they were'nt the correct ones. Here are the correct colours:

'''Suburban lines'''
*<span style="color: #0079C1">'''Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra Line:'''</span> #0079C1
*<span style="color: #F78F00">'''Bankstown Line:'''</span> #F78F00
*<span style="color: #7E81BE">'''Inner West Line:'''</span> #7E81BE
*<span style="color: #B63E96">'''Cumberland Line:'''</span> #B63E96
*<span style="color: #48A942">'''Airport & East Hills Line:'''</span> #48A942
*<span style="color: #72CDF4">'''South Line:'''</span> #72CDF4
*<span style="color: #FDBB30">'''North Shore and Western Lines:'''</span> #FDBB30
*<span style="color: #E31836">'''Northern Line:'''</span> #E31836
*<span style="color: #004990">'''Carlingford Line:'''</span> #004990
*<span style="color: #7E8183">'''Olympic Park Sprint and special event services:'''</span> #7E8183

'''Intercity lines'''
*<span style="color: #0079C1">'''South Coast Line:'''</span> #0079C1
*<span style="color: #48A942">'''Southern Highlands Line:'''</span> #48A942
*<span style="color: #FDBB30">'''Blue Mountains Line:'''</span> #FDBB30
*<span style="color: #E31836">'''Newcastle and Central Coast Line:'''</span> #E31836

'''Regional line'''
*<span style="color: #5A3F99">'''Hunter Line:'''</span> #5A3F99

''[[User:Harryboyles|<b style="color:darkblue;">Harryboyles</b>]]'' 12:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I checked this against the source code for the CityRail timetable page, and here are the exact codes. The Olympic Park one is far too light to be readable, so I think we should continue to use "grey"; same with the South Line code (should continue to be 99CCFF). These should be the colours used:

'''Suburban Lines'''
*<span style="color: #0072C6">'''Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra Line:'''</span> #0072C6
*<span style="color: #FF7800">'''Bankstown Line:'''</span> #FF7800
*<span style="color: #8D80B8">'''Inner West Line:'''</span> #8D80B8
*<span style="color: #CC00A0">'''Cumberland Line:'''</span> #CC00A0
*<span style="color: #339E35">'''Airport & East Hills Line:'''</span> #339E35
*<span style="color: #99CCFF">'''South Line:'''</span> #99CCFF
*<span style="color: #FCB514">'''North Shore and Western Lines:'''</span> #FCB514
*<span style="color: #CE1126">'''Northern Line:'''</span> #CE1126
*<span style="color: #002B7F">'''Carlingford Line:'''</span> #002B7F
*<span style="color: grey">'''Olympic Park Sprint and special event services:'''</span> grey
'''Intercity lines'''
*<span style="color: #0072C6">'''South Coast Line:'''</span> #0072C6
*<span style="color: #339E35">'''Southern Highlands Line:'''</span> #339E35
*<span style="color: #FCB514">'''Blue Mountains Line:'''</span> #FCB514
*<span style="color: #CE1126">'''Newcastle and Central Coast Line:'''</span> #CE1126

'''Regional line'''
*<span style="color: #6D28AA">'''Hunter Line:'''</span> #6D28AA

([[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 08:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC))

:The Internet Explorer browser does not support "grey" colour, such that <span style="color: gray">gray</span> colour should be used. --[[User:Shinjiman|Shinjiman]] &#8660; [[User talk:Shinjiman|&#9832;]] 14:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

===New templates and approaches to colour===
I have created a new infobox for rail, bus and t-way lines, [[:Template:Public transport infrastructure in Sydney]]. It replaces [[:Template:CityRailSydney]]. As you can see, unlike its previous iterations, there is no provision for this template to be colour-coded to match transit operator marketing material. This is, to say the least, contentious. However, there are sound reasons for keeping Wikipedia coverage of the CityRail network colour consistent.
*First, and most importantly, none of our readers need to have the concept of "red", "blue" and so on illustrated for them.
*Wikipedia is not a railway timetable, it is an encyclopaedia. While CityRail's use of colour is worth noting (in the '''map_colour''' field), it need not mandate the manner in which we display information.
*CityRail maps are coloured to make sense of the tangle of intersecting lines, and to clearly convey navigational information to fast-moving passengers on visually crowded platforms. These imperatives do not exist at Wikipedia, nor at any other encyclopaedia.
*The garishly coloured CityRail pages look messy and - in some cases - violate best practice for accessible web design.
As you can see, I have selected one colour to highlight titles on a range of Sydney public transport templates. This shade of yellow is composed using the RGB values listed in [http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/abouttrans/pictograms/pictogram-guide.pdf '''NSW Ministry of Transport approved pictograms and arrows'''] and thus ties in with the Ministry's overall look and feel for public transport signage in Sydney.
I recognise that this change reverses long-standing practice on the CityRail pages. I would ask that anyone who strongly disagrees with the move away from colour-coding here to address the issues outlined above first. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 06:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

== 2000 Olympics ==

Hello! I improve the article about the 2000 Olympics in the german wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympische_Sommerspiele_2000) for our writing competition. If you have photos with connection to this thema. I would be very happy, if someone could take a photo of the past olympic village and venues. [[User:Julius1990|Julius1990]] 13:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

== Adding photos from around Sydney ==

I've added photos of [[Westfield Eastgardens]], [[Westfield Parramatta]], [[Westfield Burwood]], [[Iron Cove Bridge, New South Wales|Iron Cove Bridge]] and Burwood Park. I hope these photos are useful. --[[User:Whats new?|Whats new?]] 07:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Requested photos list ==

Hello - if anyone is still reading this list, could anyone help add at least one photo to this list ([[:Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_in_Sydney]])? It seems to be a bit neglected lately. Any help would be great. ([[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 04:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC))

== Admiralty House/Kirribilli House Open Day ==

If anyone is interested there is an open day for Kirribilli and Admiralty House on October 29th. It costs money, but it would be fantastic to get some photos (at least outdoor ones if they let you) and info, given that the public can't get anywhere near them normally. Details [http://www.theaustralianafund.org.au/news.html here]. ([[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 06:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC))

: I thought [http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/kirribillis-accidental-intruder/2006/09/21/1158431843952.html every day] was open day at Kirribilli House!  ;-) [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 09:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

== Project directory ==

Hello. The [[WP:COUNCIL|WikiProject Council]] has recently updated the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory]].  This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at [[User:B2T2/Portal]], listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding [[:Category:WikiProject assessments|assessment]], [[:Category:WikiProject peer reviews|peer review]], and [[:Category:Wikipedia collaborations|collaboration]] are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.  [[User:Badbilltucker2|B2T2]] 16:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

==Compliment from the RTA==

Yesterday it came to my attention (via Google)  that the website for the seven bridges walk [http://www.7bridgeswalk.com.au/bridge-history.htm] had used text from Wikipedia without attribution.
I've [[Talk:Tarban_Creek_Bridge|called]] the website authors and they have no problems with attribution by linking back to Wikipedia.
They were apologetic as the text was provided to them by the RTA.  It's quite a complement that the
RTA's first port of call for information about their own bridges is Wikipedia! [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 00:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
:Um, I've just been to the site you mention and don't see any attribution to Wikipedia. Sorry, but are you ''sure'' that RTA aren't going to tell them that the copyvio is the other way around? Anyway, does "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. " sound familiar   ;)
[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 09:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
::Under the "Fig Tree" and "Tarban Creek" entries there are links to the relevant wikipedia article titled "More on Fig Tree Bridge..." and "More on Traban Creek Bridge...". Possibly other text came from Wikipedia but I only raised those two with them as they are the two articles in which I have a copyright interest.
::I do want my work to be redistributed and edited mercilessly. That's why it's released under the GNU FDL! I do expect attribution though: 1) so my work doesn't get passed off as belonging to someone else, who will then falsely claim *I* plagiarised and 2) the GNU FDL does not mean I revoke my copyright, so I will defend it in cases where the licensing conditions (the GNU FDL) are ignored, and 3) I want people to know when Wikipedia is being quoted so the general public becomes more aware of Wikipedia.
::I know your chiding is tongue in cheek, but I encourage Wikipedians to defend their copyrights for the reasons above. As my example shows, defending your copyright will most likely be in the form of a pleasant conversation and doesn't have to be adversarial.[[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 00:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Suggestion for a google tool:  A robot that spiders wikipedia and uses the text of wikipedia as a basis for google searches.  When it finds a match the robot emails the relevant Wikipedia author, informing him or her of the match so they have the choice of following it up [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 00:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

== Railway Station Photo List ==

I've added this page to help us for railway station photos that we don't have. Some lines are now well covered, others have none. If there's anyone in Western Sydney that could help out with a few photos that would be great.

See [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sydney/Railway_stations/Photos]]. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 04:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

==Notability of railway stations==

I've been looking at some of the 180-odd articles on railway stations in Sydney. I recognise that these form part of a 5000-article universe of railway stations with their own pages. But I think that most of them are non-notable. Another user has set out draft guidelines on the notability of rail infrastructure, helpfully titled ''Wikipedia is not a timetable'', which can be viewed [[User:Mangoe/Wikipedia is not a timetable|here]] and [[User:Mangoe/Railroad line and station articles|here]]. I think they deserve serious consideration.

My concerns about the Sydney station articles are as follows:
*Some stations (even in metropolitan Sydney) are not, and never will be, notable (e.g., [[Engadine railway station, Sydney|Engadine]])
*Some stations are arguably notable, but their articles lack information that speaks to that notability (e.g., [[Newtown railway station, Sydney|Newtown]])
*Many station articles appear to be based on original research (e.g., [[Campbelltown railway station, Sydney|Campbelltown]])
*Virtually all Sydney station articles contain information better suited to a rail enthusiasts' site, of which there are many.

I would suggest that articles on Sydney railway stations ''only'' be included if they can be substantially based on information sourced from credible printed-matter sources—not CityRail, not railway fan websites and certainly not personal observations. If a station can meet this criteria, then detail from other sources could be added. Any other information can go on the railway line pages.

We can argue all day about notability. It's my plan to spend substantial portions of my day doing exactly that. But [[User:Mangoe]] makes a compelling call for self-regulation: "If we create serious and brilliant articles then more editors will be encouraged to create more and more such articles. If we create trivia then more and more editors will be encouraged to create more and more trivia." [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 02:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

:*''Please make your comments at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sydney/Railway stations]]

:: It's time to kill off this recent cancer of "[[Wikipedia:Notability|Notability]]" within Wikipedia.  Notability is simply an excuse by a nosy minority to impose their view of what Wikipedia "should be" (according to themselves) on everyone else.  If there is the motivation to write and maintain a well sourced article in Wikipedia what right does some puffed up nobody have to make a judgment as to how important an article is, on a subject they probably know little about?  All notability will do is drive people (such as those who have put the effort into the railway station articles) away from Wikipedia.

:: By the way, did you know that the new notability "wannabe guideline" is heavily disputed?  What is going on when a '''disputed''' opinion is being used to remove content from Wikipedia?  Shouldn't the dispute be resolved before going on the rampage?  Better to leave your comments on the [[Wikipedia_talk:Notability|notability talk page]], letting everyone know what you think about this new "notability" push.  If enough people stand up (and ignore the pontificating) these people can be made to pull their heads in. [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 03:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

==Lady class ferries==
Does anyone know the origin of the names of the Lady class [[Sydney Ferries]] vessels (Lady Herron and Lady Northcott)? Also, how best to include the names of now-decommissioned Sydney Ferries? [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 04:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:Lady Northcott was the wife of Sir John Northcott, who was a previous Governor of New South Wales. Not sure of the Lady Herron. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 03:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

== Bus regions in Sydney ==

At present, Greater Sydney has 11 articles on bus regions, plus one for [[NightRide]]. [[User:Matt ke]] makes the quite reasonable point that the titles are a bit crap, even if the content is OK (or at least promising). The problem is finding a naming scheme that, ideally, has explicit or implied official endorsement. While [[100 series bus routes, Sydney]] could easily be renamed [[Northern Beaches bus routes, Sydney]], 400 and above are a bit more challenging. I'm reluctant to name some using region names and leave Western Sydney defined only by numbers. It would suggest that Western Sydney is an undifferentiated mass, when it is in fact a diverse region encompassing about half of Sydney by population and even more by area. Thoughts? [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 18:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:This is a reflection on my previous concerns regarding what is meant by '''Sydney''' on this site! Unfortunately to some people [[Western Sydney]] starts at about [[Bridge Street (Sydney)]]. <!-- just trying to get the wanted pages count up a bit --> Of course not many are quite that unrealistic... However there is no clear guidelines for this area.
:If we are going to define areas for articles relating to public transport then the logical boundaries would be from a major transport organisation providing public transport. Does [[Sydney Buses]], [[State Transit Authority]], or any similar organisation, have a regional structure within Sydney? Most NSW state agency regional boundaries cover the whole state not areas of Sydney. Department of School Education have divided Sydney into regions as has the various Area Health Services. But neither these nor municipal boundaries will have much use for grouping articles related to public transport.
:One alternative is, are groups of these routes radiating from common points (ie do most of the 1xx routes terminate at circular quay)?[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]]
:: Buses are already divided into regions by Transport NSW. Each region is typically run by a single operator, in some cases State Transit in other cases a private operator.  Maps are available[http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/busreform/sydney-regions.html].  It would make sense to use the existing regions, as someone else has already put the hard work into figuring out which routes should be grouped together. [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 02:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:: I also meant to say that Sydney Buses (and most private operators) also have regional maps[http://www.sta.nsw.gov.au/regionalmaps.php], derived from the NSW Transport regions.[[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 02:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::My suggestion would be to use the 2012 (year) regions. This will avoid reworking later on... If too many routes cross regions then I guess it would be better to use the 2005 ones and change a lot of articles in 2011 or so.
:::I hope the numbered regions have "meaningful" spoken names rather than ''Sydney Metropolitan Region 1''?[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 04:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:What happened to the Xxx and the Exx bus routes? They were on the single page of buses, but appear to have been lost in all the merging and changing. They are just as important as the numbered routes. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 03:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Joestella|Joestella]]  removed them - I ''hope'' in an attempt to removed the ''duplication'' claim as a cause to delete the [[100 Series Bus Routes]] etc articles. It is there in the history and easily enough reverted I guess... The current version of [[Buses in Sydney]] is crap compared to what was there at the start of the month. (sorry to those who have improved it since then but some of it's best features have been removed!)[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 04:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
The '''L, E and X series buses''' shouldn't be separated out. X00 belongs to the 500 series, L94 belongs to the 300 series and so on. They do not represent a separate series.

Reclassifying by Metropolitan Bus Region would be ideal, but we need to bear the following things in mind:
*It may be difficult to discover which current routes belong in which future region, since many routes are cross regional.
*The contract regions have numbered names, just like the current setup
*Visiting Sydneysiders will find classification by contract region, rather than route number series, opaque.
'''GarrieIrons''', the best features of the [[Buses in Sydney]] page were what exactly..?
[[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 08:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:Firstly - bugger, article names using numbered regions are fundamentally no improvement to article names using route numbers.
:OK, ''best features'' are '''subjective'''... so I'm sure, in your opinion, you never removed the best features. But I liked that using the "rolled up tables" as seen [[user:GarrieIrons/sandbox#Roll-upable table|here]](but I've removed most the content :( I put it there for reference of the '''method'''), all the bus route information was available if the reader chose to see it. This (method? style?) has been well recieved at articles where it was well applied and I think it was a very worthwhile feature on this article.
:Using this feature it kept the [[Buses in Sydney]] article brief (to view) while retaining all the detail on the "100 series bus routes" etc articles - I don't know what extra content they added while the rolled-up tables were on the central article, I wasn't that familiar with the content.[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 11:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like some debate should have occurred before the rolled up tables were removed and expanded into separate pages (coming from someone who put a fair bit of work into the rolled-up tables). [[User:Quaidy|Quaidy]] 11:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Completely agree Garrie. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 13:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
The new articles contain more, and more encyclopaedic information: detailing (where available) historical and infrastructure information. Having an enormous list of bus routes and the depots from which they currently operate could be considered operational-level directory information, which is outside of Wikipedia's scope. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 20:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

:It could be, but we've already had considerable debate on this (an AfD and a deletion review plus endless discussion elsewhere, to be exact) and it was decided that the information could stay. Perhaps you might take a bit more notice of what has been decided before barging in and doing your own thing in future, Joe? I don't blame Garrie and others for being upset about the complete lack of consultation. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 00:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== Public transport in Sydney ==

While [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] has done some good work on [[Public transport in metropolitan New South Wales]], I am wondering whether we also (that's in addition - I don't want to replace the abovementioned page at all) need a page on public transport within the Sydney metro area? - after all, people will be linking to such a page from the [[Sydney]] page and other related ones, and they will want to read about what public transport services Sydney offers, not about the bus routes in Newcastle &c (as interesting as they might be, and as appropriate as they are for the metropolitan New South Wales article that Joestella has written). While there are links between the two, eg. with the CityRail network and the link between Sydney Buses & Newcastle Buses and Ferries, the public transport situations between the Sydney basin and greater Sydney (deemed "metropolitan New South Wales" here) are quite different, and Wollongong and Newcastle may deserve their own public transport articles altogether. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 09:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

:The major public transport networks in New South Wales are the CityRail network (which covers Sydney plus Newcastle, etc) and the Ministry of Transport Metropolitan Bus System (which also covers Sydney plus Newcastle etc). Any more-specific articles would create duplication (making updates more difficult) and require Wikipedians to draw their own boundaries for Sydney (in effect, original research or analysis).
:As it stands, readers in search of information on public transport in Sydney will find that [[CityRail]] and [[Public transport in metropolitan New South Wales]] focus mainly on inner Sydney, where the majority of services are provided. Transport sections of articles on Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong may require more specific links. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 09:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

::Whilst I understand your point about updates, duplication isn't a reason not to have an article - I think it would be useful. And as far as I was aware, the Geographical Names Board did have an official definition for what constitutes the Sydney metropolitan area which would be helpful - I don't have the information on hand, but I was aware that it constituted everything up to the Hawkesbury River, west to the foot of the Blue Mountains, southwest to Campbelltown and south up to the Royal National Park (so Waterfall is excluded as it is in the non-national park corridor). Additionally, most public transport operators have defined boundaries, working either in or outside of the Sydney metropolitan area - I can't think of any that would cross the line, except perhaps the lower Blue Mountains bus operators. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 09:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Duplication is, in my view, an excellent reason not to have an article. See the Wollongong and Newcastle transport sections (which I've just edited) to see why a "Public transport in city" page need not be created. The only organisations creating "official" boundaries for public transport in NSW are RailCorp and the MoT, and they just divide NSW into CityRail/metropolitan and CountryLink/regional. I think we should follow suit. You know what would change my mind though? New and compelling content, such that [[Public transport in metropolitan New South Wales]] runneth over. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 09:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

:Yes... well, your view doesn't count for much when it's already been said that it's ok. But what about the GNB definition? You haven't addressed that. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 10:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

::The GNB definition suffers from two problems. First, you don't know what or where it is. Second, it has no direct relevance to public transport. As I've said in the past in relation to other articles, there's no need to create an article when you don't have anything new to put on it. Oh, and thanks for sharing your views on how much my view "counts". [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 10:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

:::You still haven't addressed the need that we have to have an article with direct information on '''Sydney's''' (and not Newcastle or Wollongong's, or the Central Coast's, Southern Highlands' or Blue Mountains') public transport. If you can think of a way to incorporate that in a better way, please let us know; at present none exists. And if it helps, my view doesn't count either on duplication. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 10:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

::::If you have the data go ahead and write the article JROBBO.  Personally I would think that there is plenty of information to write an article on Sydney's public transport.  (I've got quite a few books on the subject, and I'm by no means an avid collector of such books.)
::::Sensible duplication is not an evil in Wikipedia.  Each article needs to be self contained, which at time requires information to be repeated.  The measure I use is "If this article was printed on paper and read in isolation from the rest of Wikipedia would it make sense?" Topics such as a country's public transport can support a hierarchy or articles, each more detailed than the last, as different people will be after different levels of detail.  For example, '''one''' hierarchy might be:
::::* Transport in Australia
:::::*Private transport in Australia
:::::*Public transport in Australia
::::::*Public transport in Victoria
::::::*Public transport in ...
::::::*Public transport in NSW
:::::::*Public transport in Newcastle
:::::::*Public transport in ...
:::::::*Public transport in Sydney
::::::::*Buses in Sydney
::::::::*Ferries in Sydney
::::::::*Railways in Sydney
:::::::::*Railways stations in Sydney
:::::::::*Railways lines in Sydney

::::A person interested in an overview of Australian transport might start at the top.  A person interested in the history of the level crossing of Parramatta Road and the Carlingford line in Sydney would dive in at the bottom.  One size doesn't fit all. [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 11:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The above schema ignores two important considerations. First, the information should cascade. Second, we can develop any number of levels for the information.
*Cascading: JROBBO and others generate a large number of stubs that have little genuine prospect of being expanded—or meeting notability criteria. A better strategy for developing content is to fill general articles with content and create more specific articles once sufficient content exists to do so.
*Levels: We can doubtless come up with any number of levels for the information. My approach is to gather information at certain levels, rather than allowing the levels to multiply. We don't need all of Tranport > Transport mode > Transport in country > Mode in country > Transport in state > Mode in state > Transport in region > Mode in region > Transport in city > Mode in city > Transport in district > Mode in district > Operator > Operator in district > Line > Stop > Platform > etc, especially when the research done is patchy.
Duplicating information across articles is not a substitute for research. Nor is repurposing content from transit operator websites, which seems to account for a lot of the work being done on these pages. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 12:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

*Come on, Joe - John Dalton wasn't suggesting that we have as many levels as that - you are exaggerating to try and refute his point. A sensible number of levels, such as John suggested, is a good way to go, and has been the sort of thing that we have been working on for a while now. And merging everything into one article is not the way to go - Yes, we do want sourced full articles, but the majority of articles on WP aren't full of inline sources at present, and no one's suggesting that we delete most of them; it seems this only applies to the number of articles that a very vocal group of deletionists don't like and put all their energies into deleting. The aim of Wikipedia is not to merge everything into one article on everything, such as everything to do with transport in Sydney. Stubs and shorter articles are ok for the time being, as they encourage people to edit the page more and to improve them. To continue to merge articles means that there will be then articles that will never be written, because the deletionists don't want anything but perfect articles, and that's ridiculous and sad, because a fundamental thing in Wikipedia is that it is not paper, and has the capacity to be more than just a clone of your average paper encyclopaedia; it has the potential to include and have a lot more than that; and there are too many people who don't understand that view. I've done a lot of work here, quite often by myself with little support from others, and I'm tired of being hounded by deletionists (which includes others apart from you - I am not trying to single you out) to get every article to full and sourced format. A year ago, most of the railway stations were one line stubs; most of them are a lot bigger now. However, with hundreds and hundreds of articles, these things take time. Why doesn't anyone understand that? There's too many vocal deletionists and not enough helpers. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 12:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

::I would add to this comment that stubs are important in Wikipedia as they form the nucleus about which collaborative development takes place.  Some people tend to write an article in their private user space then copy it as a single unit into article space.  That is great if it works for them.  Personally I find it more productive to throw up a minimal stub and expand it in place.  Hopefully it catches someone else's interest and they start contributing too, getting the article fleshed out more quickly.  Sometimes the expansion process can take years, noodling away digging up small bits of information and adding them every few months or once a year.  In these cases the stub might seem to be abandoned.

::Sources are good.  Ideally every statement should be traceable to a source and I always encourage authors to include sources when they write.  Adding sources is time consuming but even a minimal list of sources that looks like a dog's breakfast is better than no sources as someone else can always come along and fix it up later.

::While it is better to include sources I think it is a useful contribution to throw up an unsourced stub rather than no stub at all.  In the spirit of [http://catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html release early, release often] it is more productive to get anything out the door than to spend the rest of your days planning, writing and tweaking the perfect article and never releasing it.  One of the rules of the [[The Cathedral and the Bazaar|bazaar]] (of which Wikipedia is an instance) is that there is always time and a willing contributor to correct the shortcomings of earlier versions.  How many people here have spent a few hours using google to track down sources and adding them to an unsourced article?  The bazaar at work.  As proven by the death of [[Nupedia]], the bazaar is central to the advancement of Wikipedia.[[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 22:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I would ask that you retract the implication that I put all my energies into deleting certain articles. I spend most of my time here adding content, as you are well aware. I don't buy your matyrdom argument - why not add to existing general articles rather than creating and abandoning hundreds of stubs? And since we (now) agree that we cannot have an article at every 'level', as in my example above, it's a question of where content is available to create specific articles further down the cascade. You bring the sourced, notable content, and you can create whatever article you like. [[User:Joestella|Joestella]] 14:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

:''"You bring the sourced, notable content, and you can create whatever article you like."'' - that's exactly the sort of thing that I'm sick of; In truth, I didn't create most of those articles that you so despise - I've slowly expanded them from one line stubs into articles that at least have some content. But I'm not going to argue now; there's no point. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 23:22, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
:"You bring the sourced, notable content, and you can create whatever article you like." I think it is polite to phrase personal opinion as personal opinion.  Are you claiming that your statement has any more weight than personal opinion?  If so, on what authority is that statement made please?  I've commented here on the basis that you are in a public forum and silence would be to imply support for the statement made.   [[User:John Dalton|John Dalton]] 23:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

== Wikipedia Day Awards ==

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|Esperanza's]] proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at [[User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week]] where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. [[User:Badbilltucker|Badbilltucker]] 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

== Anyone live or go near the Royal National Park? ==

Does anyone here live or go near the Royal National Park? I'm in the process of trying to fix up the Illawarra Line related articles, and it would be good to have some info and pictures of the old National Park branch as that would add a lot to the article. Just one photo of the old station would be fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 02:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

== Name dispute resolution ==

Movieguy46 has moved "Kings Cross, New South Wales" to [[Kings Cross Sydney]]. His reasoning on [[Talk:Kings Cross Sydney]] is "that the most common search is for Kings Cross Sydney". I would have thought it doesn't matter about search results, that there should be a naming convention we should follow ie place name then state. Or for a feature/locality, place name then city ie [[Hyde Park, Sydney]]. [[User:Nomadtales|Nomadtales]] 11:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:We already have a naming convention for towns and suburbs. ''Town/suburb name, state'' is the established convention for said places as detailed by [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(places)#Australia]]. A redirect goes from [[Kings Cross Sydney]] to "Kings Cross, New South Wales". ''[[User:Harryboyles|<b style="color:darkblue;">Harryboyles</b>]]'' 12:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

== Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra Railway Line up for FAC ==

Hi everyone - I'm having [[Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra railway line, Sydney]] peer reviewed at the moment, with the hope that it could reach FA status quite soon (or GA status if it didn't get to that). This would only be the second Sydney-related article to become FA standard if it passed (the first is [[Sydney Roosters]]). However, before that happens, I'd appreciate some comments on the article if you have any suggestions. The peer review is [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra railway line, Sydney|here]]. Thanks. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 09:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:Following some helpful comments, I've now put this up for FAC. I'd love some support or some constructive comments [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra railway line, Sydney|here]]. Thanks. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 11:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
::The article is now an FA, the second one for Sydney. Thanks to all who contributed to the article, and all those who made changes or made helpful comments. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 07:28, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

== Carlingford Court ==

The article [[Carlingford Court]] has been [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carlingford Court|nominated for deletion]] on the grounds "No assertion of notability". If you have an opinion on either direction on this article, please feel free to contribute to the debate at the above link. [[User talk:Orderinchaos|Orderinchaos]] 13:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

== Nice images seek compatible article, free to good home? ==

[[:Image:Cooks_River1.gif]] and [[:Image:Cooks_River2.gif]], which I noticed in the IfD discussions, seem to be quite nice pictures with GFDL licences that may be useful in illustrating a suburb - however, being from the other side of our fair land, I have no idea which one. If anyone can find a home for them that would be great. [[User talk:Orderinchaos|Orderinchaos]] 16:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
:Cooks River2 quite conveniently is described as "at Tempe" - I am inclined to believe them... unfortunately Cooks River1 is described as "near the airport". Dunno that part of the harbour/river well enough to pinpoint it. 
Very similarly named images to these pictures are already on [[Cooks River]] - [[:Image:CooksRiver2.jpg]] and [[:Image:CooksRiver1.jpg]]. So these are copies of pictures we already have. They ''should'' be deleted. But good on you for bringing it to our attention![[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 23:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
::Cool. As you can understand I preferred to make sure first :) That's fine, I'll support the deletion then. Keep up the good work! [[User talk:Orderinchaos|Orderinchaos]] 04:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

==Page revamp==
The Project page was looking a little tired and was a bit out of date, so I've updated it with a new layout. If you have any suggestions on further content, let me know. [[User:JROBBO|JROBBO]] 03:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

== TfD nomination of Template:{{ucfirst:Cityrail Station}} ==

[[Template:{{ucfirst:Cityrail Station}}]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Cityrail Station|the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page]]. Thank you.<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> --''[[User:Harryboyles|<b style="color:darkblue;">Harryboyles</b>]]'' 06:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

==North-West T-Way==
The Parramatta-Rouse Hill section of the North-West T-Way is opening on March 10; there's free rides on the Saturday on the section. It would be a great chance to get some photos of the T-Way; if anyone's keen they can visit the Parramatta-Liverpool T-Way and get some photos of that while they're at it (although it's not free). Anyone up for it? [[User:JRG|JRG]] 09:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone read this page any more or do people just like ignoring my posts? :-) [[User:JRG|JRG]], 12:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

:Not answering and ingorning aren't quite the same thing. I'd love to help, but I don't think I can make it ;-) [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 12:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
::That's fine - it would make for an expensive trip for you :-) I was testing if anyone still read this page, as the last couple of items haven't really been responded to. [[User:JRG|JRG]] 13:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

:::Sorry, my home pc got blasted by a storm and I'm a bit busy at work right now. So I reserve my comments for topics I'm most likely to contribute to.[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 05:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

==Photo or Map First?==
Hi all, I'm new to this project. :) I've gone about madly submitting photos for various (greater) Sydney suburbs today including Bowenfels, Port Kembla, Prospect, Bundanoon, Queens Park, Dover Heights, Camellia, Nelson Bay, Breakfast Point, Otford, Wollongong, Stockton, Mount Sugarloaf, Waverton, Port Botany/La Perouse, Balmain East, Little Bay, Centennial Park Mount Canobolas, Ulladulla, Oberon, RIverstone, Wolli Creek, JBT, Mount Annan, Winmalee and Lavender Bay... But I've come across some suburbs/towns where the infobox has a map specified as the suburb/town's image, e.g. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiama Kiama]. My question is, if an image is available to be uploaded, should that spot be filled by an image or a map? Thanks [[User:Wyp|Wyp]] 12:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

:Just my own opinion, but it seems a map has been used as a filler while waiting for a reasonable photo. Some suburbs (espec. out my way...) don't seem to have much noteworthy to take a photo of - what would you photograph around some of the McMansion Estates, everything rolled out of the same cookie-cutter machine less than five years ago? Although that in itself may be worth a photo?
:[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 21:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thanks for the clarification. I'll try and add more photos when I get my uni assignments done. ;) [[User:Wyp|Wyp]] 06:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

::Personally, while I'll all ion favour of adding photos to the articles, I prefer the map in the infobox. There doesn't seem much point having the photo there unless it is really really distinctive. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 08:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

== Central West region ==

The article [[Central West (Sydney)]] was recently created, and linked to from [[Sydney]] and {{tl|Sydney regions}}. I have expressed my concerns about the accuracy of the content and indeed the notability of this regional identity at [[Talk:Central West (Sydney)]] - more input would be appreciated. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 09:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

==New South Head Road, Sydney==

I have created the page, [[New South Head Road, Sydney]] as per suggestion, though my knowledge of the road is limited, the article has been tagged for deletion, if anyone has a good knowledge of the road I encourage them to contribute to the article. [[User:Bandwagonman|Bandwagonman]] 15:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

It was ''only'' proded -  I removed the prod, I will add some categories.[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 22:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

==Images==

I have taken a photo of the Sydney Harbour Tunnel and will get one of the ASX soon, regarding the Lane Cove Tunnel I tried to get a picture yesterday but the angle isn't ideal from the Pacific Highway does anyone ever use Reserve Road I think it is as it offers a good view of the tunnel, if anyone does it would help if you could take the photo whenever possible. [[User:Bandwagonman|Bandwagonman]] 11:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

: I've added some screengrabs from a time-lapse video I've taken of the orbital network in the meantime, until better photographs are taken. [[User:Wyp|Wyp]] 01:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

== Intercity Line Photos - help needed ==

If anyone lives outside of Sydney along the main railway lines, I now have a list of photos of the CityRail network stations with and without photos. Any help (even one photo) would be immensely helpful. See [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Sydney/Railway stations/Photos]] and scroll to the Intercity section. We're especially in need of photos in the Lower Blue Mountains, and the Shoalhaven/Illawarra area. Thanks. [[User:JRG|JRG]] 08:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

== Sydney Explorer page ==

Regarding the WikiProject Sydney's [[Sydney Explorer]] page:  as written it currently fails [[WP:CORP]] as the article doesn't establish how Sydney Explorer is notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia.  I thought I'd throw this out to the project people first to see if it could be rewritten, rather than simply nominate the article for deletion as a non-notable promotional/advertisement insertion. [[User:SpikeJones|SpikeJones]] 18:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

:The Sydney Explorer, together with the Bondi Explorer, was previously covered by one paragraph in the [[Sydney Buses]] article. That article was later seriously shortened and moved, cutting out the Explorer paragraph. While I can see why editors wanted to remove that sort of information from the Sydney Buses article, it has the result that we now have a whole article for something that probably doesn't deserve one. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 09:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

::Wouldn't it be [[Sydney buses]], in keeping with WP:STYLE?  (ah, I see that it is already)   Or better, [[Transportation in Sydney]] where you would discuss all transportation options available in the city instead of needing different pages?   (ah, I see that as well.  Never mind)    Anyway, I'll leave it to the Sydney people like yourself to remerge or otherwise handle that page.  Just thought I'd bring it to you attention.  Cheers! [[User:SpikeJones|SpikeJones]] 11:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

:::No. '''Sydney Buses''', one of the business units of the [[State Transit Authority of New South Wales]], is the entity which runs the Sydney Explorer route. Since it no longer has its own page, I would suggest adding the Explorer routes to its section on the STA page, either along with the other "high profile" routes, or in a separate paragraph, as they are not commuter services. If it weren't for the fact that [[Sydney buses]] is often a typo for "Sydney Buses", I would say the redirect would be better directed to [[Bus companies in Sydney]], or something like that. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 13:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Stupid me. They are ''already'' included in the list of high profile routes. I don't see the need for an article as well. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 13:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
::::With the Sydney Explorer article, well I think I was board the day that I wrote it and desperate for some ideas at the time, thats all I could think of, so if you want go ahead and delete the article or find someone who can add to it. On previous occasions I have tried to delete it myself but it keeps getting reverted. <br />
It probably would be a good idea to delete this article, I have actually taken the main paragraph from the Sydney Explorer page and added that to atleast 2 other articles, with <nowiki>{{Main|Sydney Explorer}}</nowiki> at the top of the section.--[[User:Mindys12345|AdamJWC]] 03:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

==[[Brian Wood (rugby player)]]==
I have added a "{{[[Template:prod|prod]]}}" template to the article [[Brian Wood (rugby player)]], suggesting that it be deleted according to the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion]] process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "[[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not|What Wikipedia is not]]" and [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|Wikipedia's deletion policy]]).  You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the <code><nowiki>{{dated prod}}</nowiki></code> notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on [[Talk:Brian Wood (rugby player)|its talk page]]. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the [[WP:PROD|proposed deletion process]], the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion criteria]] or it can be sent to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|Articles for Deletion]], where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. 

So much for the boilerplate. This is actually typed in by a human. I know squat about rugby and my memories of Sydney, though pleasant, are hazy and certainly don't include anything related to sport. Maybe I'm all wrong about this. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] 08:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Original research? ==

[[Sydney_Bypass#Bypass outside the Sydney Basin]]
Has a reference but it is written and webhosted by the page's creator and only contributor.. [[User:129.31.72.52|129.31.72.52]] 01:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:It does look like some sort of self-promotion. I think the key thing is that while there is indeed a proposal, there is no suggestion that this proposal was commissioned by the government or has received any sort of publicity or support, so including it in the article is giving it too much weight. Unless some evidence of its importance is provided, I would remove it. [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 09:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:*Mea culpa.  I did that in October last year shortly after starting editing wikipedia and had forgotten about it by the time I learned about [[WP:OR|original research]] and [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]].  Andrew Stoner (NSW Nationals leader) looked at it around June 2006 and the federal Nationals have actively supported related roadworks but there is nothing on their web site or the Liberal site to show that they support it.  Anyway, I've removed it now.  --[[User:AtholM|Athol Mullen]] 11:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Thanks! [[User:JPD|JPD]] ([[User talk:JPD|talk]]) 12:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

== Home-made rocket attacks on [[Westbus]] at [[Willmot, New South Wales|Willmot]] ==

This was reported this morning on [[Nova (radio network)|Nova]] 96.9 8:00am / 8:30 am news. Does anyone have a better reference (ie press / web) I can use at [[Westbus]], [[Willmot, New South Wales]] and [Public transport in metropolitan New South Wales]]?
I think a series of attacks by someone leading to them using an improvised explosive device is worth covering.
It has been covered while it was "only" rock-throwing in the Mt Druitt - St Marys Standard but at that stage I didn't see it as worth including - it is fairly mainstream vandalism even if it is at a significant level.
[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 00:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

:Here's what I've found from the Westbus/Hillsbus websites:
:[http://www.westbus.com.au/uploads/announce/Willmont%20services.pdf] Diversions around Willmont
:[http://www.westbus.com.au/media/announce_list.asp] OH&S meeting – no busses between 09:30-12:30.
:This may help too [http://search.smh.com.au/siteSearch.ac?ss=smh&q=Westbus&o=1] - links to two articles
:[[User:LuYiSi|Lou]] 02:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks, [http://www.smh.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Missile-attacks-halt-Sydney-buses/2007/06/07/1181089190844.html this] one particularly shows that it is a noteworthy incident.[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 03:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

== Possible source for CityRail information ==

I recently did a quick search on Google for possible sources and came across a few references to ''A Compendium of CityRail Travel Statistics'' published by RailCorp. If someone could get a copy, then it could be a valuable source. ''[[User:Harryboyles|<b style="color:darkblue;">Harryboyles</b>]]'' 06:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

==Peer review of [[Attack on Sydney Harbour]]==
I've just started a peer review for the [[Attack on Sydney Harbour]] article, at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Attack on Sydney Harbour]]. As this falls under the grounds of WikiProject Sydney, I'm requesting that members of this group come forward and find the flaws in the article before it makes a run for A-class review, and hopefully [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates]]. -- [[User:Saberwyn|saberwyn]] 06:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

== Forthcoming loss of portal ==

Project members or watchers might need to heed the critique of the soon to go portal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Abandoned_micro-portals_for_Australian_state_capitals

[[User:JarrahTree|JarrahTree]] 13:23, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

== Request for information on WP1.0 web tool ==

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the [[User:WP_1.0_bot|WP 1.0 Bot]]! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the [[:toolforge:enwp10/cgi-bin/pindex.fcgi|web tool]] that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK30kJtKQ3cp-QLY1VJhB94HP2q6437Cdk3E2rVRYHowcL4A/viewform?usp=sf_link this Google form] where you can leave your response. [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] ([[User talk:Walkerma|talk]]) 04:25, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
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== Discussion on photomontage for [[Sydney]] ==

Hey there! A discussion on what to illustrate, and which images to include, in a potential {{tl|Photo montage}} for the '''[[Sydney]]''' article is currently taking place at [[Talk:Sydney#Selection of images for a photomontage]]. Feel free to join in on the discussion and share your thoughts on the matter! – ''<span style="color:#00543c;">PhilipTerryGraham</span> ([[User talk:PhilipTerryGraham|talk]]&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[User:PhilipTerryGraham/Articles|articles]]&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[User:PhilipTerryGraham/Reviews|reviews]])'' 22:30, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

== RfC: Western Sydney Airport line ==

I have opened a new move discussion over the article '''[[Talk:Western Sydney Airport line#Requested move 27 January 2021|Western Sydney Airport line]]''' in hopes of finding a stronger consensus for the article name options than the original discussion provided. Any contributions would be welcome. – [[User:Nick Mitchell 98|Nick Mitchell 98]] <sup>[[User talk:Nick Mitchell 98|talk]]</sup> 02:42, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

== Region(s) of Sydney for Epping ==

I have kicked off a discussion of which region(s) apply for the suburb of Epping at [[Talk:Epping, New South Wales#Region(s) of Sydney for Epping]].  By extension, the same logic will probably also affect Eastwood and Carlingford.  Please contribute if you have an opinion, or better still, relevant sources.--[[User:Gronk Oz|Gronk Oz]] ([[User talk:Gronk Oz|talk]]) 14:56, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:That discussion so far is just me and one editor with opposing views ... more contributions would be very helpful.--[[User:Gronk Oz|Gronk Oz]] ([[User talk:Gronk Oz|talk]]) 10:13, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

== User script to detect unreliable sources ==

{{Main|User:Headbomb/unreliable}}
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to [[WP:URS|unreliable sources]] and [[predatory journal]]s. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the [[Wikipedia:User scripts/Most imported scripts|39th most imported script on Wikipedia]]. The idea is that it takes something like
*John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14. (<code><nowiki>John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.</nowiki></code>)
and turns it into something like
* John Smith "{{highlight|[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]|pink}}" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{tl|cite web}}, {{tl|cite journal}} and {{tl|doi}}.

The script is mostly based on [[WP:RSPSOURCES]], [[WP:NPPSG]] and [[WP:CITEWATCH]] and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is '''not a script to be mindlessly used''', and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at [[User:Headbomb/unreliable]]. Questions, comments and requests can be made at [[User talk:Headbomb/unreliable]].

- &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span>

<span style="font-size:90%">This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from.</span> Delivered by: [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
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== Good article reassessment for [[Summer Hill, New South Wales]] ==
[[Summer Hill, New South Wales]] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Summer Hill, New South Wales/1|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:Onegreatjoke|Onegreatjoke]] ([[User talk:Onegreatjoke|talk]]) 17:22, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

== Daceyvillain - Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) ==

Daceyvillain has being unnecessarily destructive editing and removing factual and well cited information from the Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) page. From the start the page has acknowledged that the Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) as a whole is Watsons Bay to La Perouse with 5 LGAs. It then goes into detail about how the northern part of the Eastern Suburbs which are east of the CBD within the Waverley and Woollahra Council neighbourhoods vary from the south-eastern suburbs within City of Randwick and eastern parts of Bayside Council. They have different roads, federal divisions and are different socio-econimically and demographically. The official Australian Bureau of Statistics also acknowledge the different regions of the Eastern Suburbs and cuts it into Eastern Suburbs - North and Eastern Suburbs - South. Daceyvillain from the start hasn't liked any reference nor acknowledgement to this distinction regardless of references and citation as he believe the eastern suburbs is just one simple neighbourhoods/region from Watsons Bay to La Perouse with no demographic distinction whatsoever. He's now edited the page removing the well cited and factual 'Sub-Regions' section altogether. He's been pushing his own agenda and opinion from the start ignoring facts in front of him which he doesn't agree with. The Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) page reached an accurate and reliable compromise of information with the edit made on 15:21, 4 April 2023. This edit acknowledged the region as a whole is Watsons Bay to La Perouse but then went into detail about governance, sub-regions and neighbourhoods. All this information has now been removed by Daceyvillain as from the very start his biased opinion of the Eastern Suburbs not having any sub-regions nor distinction between areas is all he cares about pushing onto the page. Can this be mediated properly by an unbiased editor and this editor stopped from his agenda pushing tirade. If you check the Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) talk page and previous edits You'd see the mess that has unfolded. [[Special:Contributions/2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC|2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC]] ([[User talk:2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC|talk]]) 06:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

:Please stop spamming Wikipedia and trying to create duplicate discussions.
:This is already being discussed here [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Daceyvillain_-_Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney)]] where the current proposal (not my suggestion) is to topic ban your IP range. [[User:Daceyvillain|Daceyvillain]] ([[User talk:Daceyvillain|talk]]) 06:22, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

== Project-independent quality assessments ==

Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at [[Wikipedia:Content assessment]], but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent [[WP:Village pump (proposals)/Archive_198#Project-independent_quality_assessments|Village pump proposal]] was approved and has been implemented to add a {{para|class}} parameter to {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{tl|WPBannerMeta}} a new {{para|QUALITY_CRITERIA|custom}} parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 14:40, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

== Sydney Meetup ==

Hi all, on Sunday June 22 some of us are organising a Sydney meetup: [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney/June 2023]] Feel free to add yourself as attending if interested. [[User:Jimmyjrg|Jimmyjrg]] ([[User talk:Jimmyjrg|talk]]) 23:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

== Requested move at [[Talk:2024 Bondi Junction stabbings#Requested move 15 April 2024]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] There is a requested move discussion at [[Talk:2024 Bondi Junction stabbings#Requested move 15 April 2024]] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. [[User:RodRabelo7|RodRabelo7]] ([[User talk:RodRabelo7|talk]]) 00:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

== Requested move at [[Talk:Sydney R-Class Tram#Requested move 4 May 2024]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] There is a requested move discussion at [[Talk:Sydney R-Class Tram#Requested move 4 May 2024]] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. [[User:Wikiexplorationandhelping|Wikiexplorationandhelping]] ([[User talk:Wikiexplorationandhelping|talk]]) 13:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)