View source for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis/Archive 13

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== We can't use flags per MOS ==

We have to follow per [[WP:MOS]].. From now on, we will need to use [[country code]]s in career statistics articles (as they do in the [http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx official ATP rankings])... As it stands, the use of flagicons is the only thing which makes it impossible to nominate tennis lists to FL-status, and therefore should be removed. Any comments? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 07:22, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:This was just discussed a month ago...No Policy bans flags, and consensus here and our guidelines state we use them in certain cases. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::But not in tables, everyone else (with the exception of this project) agrees upon that.. Consider this discussion reopened. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 07:35, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::And you left off other sources that use them... sources like [http://www.olympic.org/michael-phelps the Olympics], the [http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/head-to-head/result.aspx?player1=100007935&player2=100004087 International Tennis Federation (the governing board of tennis)], [http://www.wtatennis.com/players/player/11289/title/victoria-azarenka the WTA] and [http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Bo/B/Bjorn-Borg.aspx the ATP]. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Where does WIKI POLICY state that flags are banned in tables? You have made a drastic change to the [[Roger Federer career statistics]] article, and when it was reverted you instead reverted it back before discussing here. That's not the way we do things. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:43, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::What's the point of flag athlete and IOC athlete then? Which displays both the flag and the country code? And is most certainly used to represent nationalities in tables [[Special:Contributions/92.18.26.3|92.18.26.3]] ([[User talk:92.18.26.3|talk]]) 08:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::So why is the Aus Open, Wimbledon and US Open men's champions singles lists featured when they use a hybrid of the flag template is flags are not allowed?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.18.26.3|92.18.26.3]] ([[User talk:92.18.26.3|talk]]) 08:45, 14 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
This wikiproject is hardly alone on this. To name a few, [[List of international cricket centuries by Sachin Tendulkar]], [[List of Olympic records in athletics]], [[List of UEFA European Football Championship finals]] and [[List of Eurovision Song Contest winners]], all have flags in tables and are all featured lists. [[User:Jevansen|Jevansen]] ([[User talk:Jevansen|talk]]) 08:51, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I guess it's permitted on yours and my examples (exclude UEFA and Eurovision) as they are a separate field.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.18.26.3|92.18.26.3]] ([[User talk:92.18.26.3|talk]]) 09:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::Fyunck(click), the sources you gave just prove my point, when it comes to list none of them uses flagicons, they use the country code... When it comes to player biographies they use the country code '''and the flag, but they don't do that in lists'''. Secondly, what people face to understand is that the flagicons hamper, stop sortability in tables.. I can't sort the tables when using flags. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 12:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Let's get this straight. Flags ''aren't'' "banned" in tables. To quote [[WP:MOSFLAG]] " In lists or tables, flag icons may be relevant when the nationality of different subjects is pertinent to the purpose of the list or table itself." What the Manual of Style states is that "The name of a flag's country (or province, etc.) should appear adjacent to the first use of the flag icon, as virtually no readers are familiar with every flag, and many flags differ only in minor details. " In other words, Flags should only be used alongside the country name or code (or at least, the first use should come alongside these). We only have to do this in the first instance, but in practice it might be better to do it throughout. I wouldn't simply replace them with country codes. Is there any evidence that people recognize "([[Belarus|BLR]])" as Belarus any more than they would recognize "{{flagicon|BLR}}"? Neither are particularly clear that they are 'Belarus'.
::::So I agree that Wikiproject Tennis ought to get in line with the rest of Wikipedia here. Can I suggest that we go with the format of  [[Marc Rosset]] <small>({{flag|SUI}})</small> instead eg:
{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|13 February 2000
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Marseille Open|Marseille]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet(i)
|[[Marc Rosset]] <small>({{flag|SUI}})</small>
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|}

::::This uses the template <nowiki> {{flag|SUI}} </nowiki>. I also suggest that the consensus is retained until after this discussion. [[User:Super Nintendo Chalmers|Super Nintendo Chalmers]] ([[User talk:Super Nintendo Chalmers|talk]]) 13:21, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::As per [[List of Grand Slam men's singles champions]] we have used the country name on first use in some articles. Football article lists have said this is not necessary. It looks very strange to see a flag after the player name imho. The other thing is that nowadays at wikipedia, as opposed to adding the country code, when the mouse runs over the icon the entire country is spelled out for everyone so there is no loss of information. In fact the country code doubles it up. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::I never understood the logic of using the country name only on first use as per [[List of Grand Slam men's singles champions]]. It is not intuitive or user–friendly and leads to confusion as is shown by the frequent edits to remove the country name in those articles. In my view it's a poor compromise between using only flagicons and consistently using flagicons + country name. We do have articles that follow the flagicon + country name approach, such as [[List of Australian Open men's singles champions]]. Aesthetically I prefer flagicons only (fewer columns and therefore easier to scan/read) but if a combination with country names (preferably abbreviations) is required to comply with relevant guidelines/policies so be it.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 20:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Actually I agree with you. Multiple admins have pointed out to me it's need on first use so that why I police it. I'd also rather have just the flagicons. What about a separate column for just the flagicons? It would add 4 new flag columns to those charts. Adding the country name would probably make it much too wide for many browsers. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 20:15, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I'm unsure if a separate column for just the flagicons would be beneficial. In my post I use the term 'country name' but I agree that using the full name is not practical and it should therefore read 'country abbreviation'.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 21:02, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::I am certainly open as to how we display the flags. I see one choice was to have a separate column for the flagicon just before the player's name. I can certainly live with that and I think we can incorporate that into the Project guidelines without too much fuss. What I don't like is personal attacks on my talk page and untruthfulness about a policy on flag-banning. Also the tables have been drastically changed without letting us know beforehand. We have no need for a full date being displayed as opposed to just the year. The tournament page itself will tell you the full date if you need it. He also removed the Tournament name and inserted just the city... a huge error. We use the non-sponsored name and link to the the yearly event. Just the city name is useless. He removed the single table of Masters 1000 tournaments... one our readers usually like to know about. The 500s and 25os are tiny blips in comparison so combining them all may not be a good idea. Putting Davis Cup and Hopman Cup together lower down however may be a good thing, so it's not all bad, but forcing all these changes down our throats is not the way to go when the initial change was reverted. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:I like how Super Nintendo Chalmers think, however I've altered the layout a bit.. Secondly, I didn't lie, I misunderstood, if you check the Mikhail Youzhny career statistics FL review, I was told using flags were against WP policy (that's why there are no flags, but I will be readding them now).. Thirdly, I told you guys about the tables in the section "Career statistics lists have to change", and I likened them to those in the Mikhail Youzhny career statistics article. Secondly, since the ATP World Tour now have sorting, and since I added a category section, a user can quickly see how many Masters 1000 Federer has won, try using the sortability. It does work. Thirdly, you said everything was okay, with the exception of the flags. I'm readding the flags. But I did tell you guys beforehand in the section "Career statistics lists have to change" (but the flags I fogot, I thought I mentioned them, but I did not, but none of you responded). And last, I did mention in the section "Career statistics lists have to change" that I was open to create different tables for the masters 1000, 500 and 250, but again, none of you responded. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|13 February 2000
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Marseille Open|Marseille]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet(i)
|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Switzerland|SUI]]
|{{sortname|Marc|Rosset}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|}
Does this work? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:Yes and no. As I said, a separate column can work though I see no reason for the country code when a mousever gives the full name. However, the full date needs to go, the non-sponsored tournament name MUST be there with a link (not a city name). The 250 series must also go... it was not invented [[ATP World Tour 250 series|until 2009]] so that is an error. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 20:25, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::It doesn't do that on my computer.. When my mouse touches a flag nothing happens (the same with alt text).. It may have something to do with the fact that I have a mac.. Secondly, I didn't add the full dates, they've always been there, i'm readding the tournament names (I told you I would at you're talk page, so why keep complaining about It? No personal attack ment), and what should 250 series be replaced with, with "minor" tournament? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::One other thing. Advice...You have now reverted that article 4x in 24 hours... after being told by editor chalmers to wait. You can be blocked instantly for doing so if any editor reports you. It's pretty much non-negotiable. Please self-revert to the original form before that happens. Show us here what you want to do so we can comment, but don't do it lest a block happens. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 20:35, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:: It's probably best to limit this discussion to the topic of flagicons / country names and leave other issues regarding the tournament tables (category, dates) to a separate discussion (if needed). Otherwise it quickly gets convoluted and it becomes less likely this discussion will lead to a meaningful outcome.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 20:44, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::I concur.. However, I want you guys to know that I've readded all the flags I've removed at the Roger Federer career statistics.. The flags are now there. Secondly, this being directed at Fyunck(click), I'll be readding the official, non-sponsored tournament names tomorrow after University/real work tomorrow, OK? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 22:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:No, I said he misunderstood (which he did, since I told you I would be readding the flags, as you wanted, I've been at work, that's why I couldn't do it earlier). .. You reverted me originally since I removed the flags, now I'm readding it, so what's the problem? It does take time, as you noticed yourself, there over 100s of flags missing, or more correctly, more than 300 flags missing.. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
<reduce indent> Unfortunately we can't rely on the 'hidden text' from the mouse hover displaying when people hover a mouse cursor: a large and growing percentage of people now access Wikipedia through touchscreens which don't have a mouse cursor and which (as far as I know) can't display the hidden text. If we're going to change this to follow policy, then we need flag and name/code. I also agree that only showing the country name in the first instance of use causes my confusion than it solves.
This also has implications beyond career statistics tables as well. The MOS applies to all pages. I've done edits of [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2012_US_Open_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_Singles&oldid=577241269 2012 US Open – Men's Singles] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2012_US_Open_(tennis)&oldid=577241249 2012 US Open (tennis)] to exemplify this. [[User:Super Nintendo Chalmers|Super Nintendo Chalmers]] ([[User talk:Super Nintendo Chalmers|talk]]) 06:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:I can say right off that it is absolutely horrible and confusing on [[2012 US Open – Men's Singles]]. Country codes running into players names. There could be a list of flags on the bottom as a key if you have to have the names... but those codes have to go from those charts. In fact that could solve this problem too. A drop down hidden key for people unfamiliar with the flags. TIAYN is good at creating those so please show us an example of a hidden key we could use. Then we could simply use the flagicons, dump the first use codes, and simply add new flags as we go. Or create a template that we could use so all we would have to do is add <nowiki>{{tennisflag key}}</nowiki>. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:19, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

:Goodness, I just checked [[2012 US Open (tennis)]] change you made it it's even worse. Wow... that can't stay that way. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:21, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:: I'm not necessarily asking for the pages to look like that. FWIW, though it took a minute to get use to, I don't think it looks that bad - we need to keep in mind that we may have to settle for aesthetically worse options which are more informative. But I agree that it looks chunky, particularly with the doubles teams. My intention was simply to indicate that this needs doing everywhere, and we need to find a way to make it work. Yes, I had wondered if a drop-down flag key was the best option here. [[User:Super Nintendo Chalmers|Super Nintendo Chalmers]] ([[User talk:Super Nintendo Chalmers|talk]]) 07:32, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::With that we wouldn't have to alter the pages, just make sure that the key is there. Again that appears to be up TIAYN's alley if we can create a small enough key that can be dropped down. I also agree with Wolbo that I don't really think the codes are more informative... those country codes can be quite confusing, and not always very intuitive. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:42, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::This is why we have a flag athlete template to stop ugly botch jobing like above. What's so wrong with {{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}? Also a list would do as I gather that is a compromise on snooker season articles, don't know how that will look on tennis draws etc though.<small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:92.18.46.233|92.18.46.233]] ([[User talk:92.18.46.233|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/92.18.46.233|contribs]]) 08:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:::::At the moment I'm favouring either 'flagathlete' or a key of some sort. [[User:Super Nintendo Chalmers|Super Nintendo Chalmers]] ([[User talk:Super Nintendo Chalmers|talk]]) 09:42, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::First career statistics and US Open draws can not be organized in the same way, since they are organized very differently.. The key system, at least the first I could think of, would go  something like this (I can do better, but its the first one I came up with :p) ... Can we wait with this discussion, and first figure out the career statistics one (the table one), and then we can fix the others. One subject at a time, so as to keep this discussion focused. 
{| class="wikitable plainrowheaders"
|-
! colspan="2" align="center" | Abbreviations used
|-
|{{flagicon|GBR}}
| Great Britain
|-
|etc
| etc...
|}
Secondly, let's go back to the career statistics... We've agreed to use both the country codes and flags. I support either [[User:92.18.46.233|92.18.46.233]]'s proposal or my own, what are you're thoughts? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 15:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:We have not agreed to that at all. If we have a key we can dump the country codes. The flag athlete might be better though... but I'd have to see it in a list. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::The problem with having the flag first is that tables won't sort. While flagathlete is a nice idea, the tables need to be able to sort. Sortability is key, and its one of the key reasons why I'm against the use of flags before player name in the first place.. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 19:07, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Well, they ''do'' sort, just not the way in which you want. It shouldn't be a necessity that they're sortable anyway. [[User:Jared Preston|Jared Preston]] ([[User talk:Jared Preston|talk]]) 19:22, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::Actually, they don't.. They don't sort after first name, or surname, it just fucks up.. So saying they sort is completely wrong.  Anyhow... I've found a way to implement the flagathlete model (but its hard work, and implementing it will take long..... long time)... So here, two alternatives with sizable models: --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 19:29, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders collapsible collapsed"
|-
! colspan="7" align="center" | The "flagathlete" version
|-
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1
|6 July 2003
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2003 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Philippoussis, Mark"|{{flagathlete|[[Mark Philippoussis]]|AUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|2
|1 February 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3
|4 July 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|4–6, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|4
|12 September 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5
|3 July 2005
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|6
|11 September 2005
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|6–3, 2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|7
|29 January 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Baghdatis, Marcos"|{{flagathlete|[[Marcos Baghdatis]]|CYP}}
|5–7, 7–5, 6–0, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1
|11 June 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–1, 1–6, 4–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|8
|9 July 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|9
|10 September 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 4–6, 7–5, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|10
|28 January 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2
|10 June 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|3–6, 6–4, 3–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|11
|8 July 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 2–6, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|12
|9 September 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3
|8 June 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|1–6, 3–6, 0–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4
|6 July 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles final|4–6, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(10–8)</sup>, 7–9]]
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|13
|8 September 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–2, 7–5, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|5
|1 February 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 6–3, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|14
|7 June 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Soderling, Robin"|{{flagathlete|[[Robin Söderling]]|SWE}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|15
|5 July 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 3–6, 16–14
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|6
|14 September 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Martin del Potro, Juan"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|16
|31 January 2010
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2010 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–4, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|7
|5 June 2011
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2011 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 7–5, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|17
|8 July 2012
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2012 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|4–6, 7–5, 6–3, 6–4
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders collapsible collapsed"
|-
! colspan="8" align="center" | TIAYN proposal
|-
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1
|6 July 2003
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2003 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|AUS}} 
|{{sortname|Mark|Philippoussis}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|2
|1 February 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|RUS}} 
|{{sortname|Marat|Safin}}
|7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3
|4 July 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|USA}} 
|{{sortname|Andy|Roddick}}
|4–6, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|4
|12 September 2004
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|AUS}} 
|{{sortname|Lleyton|Hewitt}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5
|3 July 2005
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Roddick}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|6
|11 September 2005
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Andre|Agassi}}
|6–3, 2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|7
|29 January 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|CYP}}
|{{sortname|Marcos|Baghdatis}}
|5–7, 7–5, 6–0, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1
|11 June 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|{{flag|ESP}}
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|6–1, 1–6, 4–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|8
|9 July 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|ESP}}
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|9
|10 September 2006
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Roddick}}
|6–2, 4–6, 7–5, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|10
|28 January 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|CHI}}
|{{sortname|Fernando|González}}
|7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2
|10 June 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|{{flag|ESP}} 
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|3–6, 6–4, 3–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|11
|8 July 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|ESP}} 
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 2–6, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|12
|9 September 2007
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|SRB}}
|{{sortname|Novak|Djokovic}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3
|8 June 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|{{flag|ESP}}
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|1–6, 3–6, 0–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4
|6 July 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|ESP}}
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles final|4–6, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(10–8)</sup>, 7–9]]
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|13
|8 September 2008
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Murray}}
|6–2, 7–5, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|5
|1 February 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|ESP}}
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 6–3, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|14
|7 June 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|{{flag|SWE}}
|{{sortname|Robin|Söderling}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|15
|5 July 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Roddick}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 3–6, 16–14
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|6
|14 September 2009
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], New York, United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|ARG}} 
|{{sortname|Juan|Martín del Potro}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|16
|31 January 2010
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2010 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Melbourne, Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Murray}}
|6–3, 6–4, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|7
|5 June 2011
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2011 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], Paris, France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|{{flag|ESP}} 
|{{sortname|Rafael|Nadal}}
|5–7, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 7–5, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|17
|8 July 2012
|style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2012 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], London, United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Andy|Murray}}
|4–6, 7–5, 6–3, 6–4
|}
:In TIAYN's proposal if you're going to do that and use the flag template just write the whole name instead of codes far easier to understand and I'd prefer nation to come after opponent as tennis is an individual sport which happens to represent a country not the other way round. [[Special:Contributions/92.18.39.11|92.18.39.11]] ([[User talk:92.18.39.11|talk]]) 21:29, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

===Tournament names, cities and countries in the career statistics tables===
I don't want to kill the other discussion, but here it goes.
Including official, non-sponsored names, cities, and the countries take much needed space in the tables.. Seeing that the official names are more often than not includes the cities name, can't we instead of having tournament, city and country have only tournament and country? Its repetitive. To take a few examples, Rotterdam Open, Netherlands, Shanghai Masters, China, French Open, France... Another alternative would be [[Shanghai Masters|Shanghai]], China ... These are the three alternatives, are any of you willing to seek a change? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 15:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|33.
|8 October 2006
|style=background:#d0f0c0| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Japan Open Tennis Championships]], Japan
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Tim|Henman}}
|6–3, 6–3
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|33.
|8 October 2006
|style=background:#d0f0c0| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Japan Open Tennis Championships|Tokyo]], Japan
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Tim|Henman}}
|6–3, 6–3
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|33.
|8 October 2006
|style=background:#d0f0c0| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Japan Open Tennis Championships]], Tokyo, Japan
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Tim|Henman}}
|6–3, 6–3
|}

:Why have a column for "category" when we facilitate background colours? As for the third option, seems a bit like an [[WP:EGG]] to me, especially when the city name isn't in the title. As for "country", it'd be better to sort out the mess in the discussion above first. We'd be running before we can walk otherwise. [[User:Jared Preston|Jared Preston]] ([[User talk:Jared Preston|talk]]) 15:45, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Because at the Mikhail Youzhny FL review a reviewer said the old colour coding didn't work - for instance, a colorblind reader would not understand with the "current" version used in the the majority of career statistics articles which tournaments are Masters 1000, ATP 500 or ATP 250 (since its only showed by the use of colors)... while its a point that colorblind readers are not the majority of readers, the FL reviewer had a point, we can't leave them out.. This is why I don't use the old color coding. 
:::::No entirely true. Many charts use colors and symbols like a {{dagger}}, so you could use that instead of just color. He's correct in that color cannot be the only way to determine something because of colorblind readers, but it can be the main way to do it. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:33, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


:But to the point, lets take another example;
{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|13 February 2000
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Marseille Open]], Marseille, France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet(i)
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Marc|Rosset}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|13 February 2000
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Marseille Open|Marseille]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet(i)
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Marc|Rosset}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|13 February 2000
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet(i)
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Marc|Rosset}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|}
:Morselle is mentioned twice.. And secondly, is where the city is held that important? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 19:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::What do we do when the tournament is not a 1000, 500, or 250? Those were invented in 2009 and we just know the ATP will change the terms again. This was discussed way back in May of this year. We were looking at the following:

Per Tennis project guidelines it MUST be:
{|class="sortable wikitable" style=font-size:97%
!Outcome!!No.!!width=100|Date!!width=320|Championship!!Surface!!width=180|Opponent!!width=250|Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|2000-02-13}}
|[[Marseille Open]], Marseille, France
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|2000-10-29}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|2001-02-04}}
||[[Milan Indoor]], Milan, Italy
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|2001-02-25}}
|[[Rotterdam Open]], Rotterdam, Netherlands
|Hard (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|2001-10-28}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

This was another option:
{|class="sortable wikitable" style=font-size:97%
!Outcome!!No.!!width=100|Date!!width=150|Championship!!width=146|Location!!Surface!!width=180|Opponent!!width=250|Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|2000-02-13}}
|[[Marseille Open]]
|Marseille, FRA
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|2000-10-29}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]]
|Basel, SUI
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|2001-02-04}}
||[[Milan Indoor]]
|Milan, ITA
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|2001-02-25}}
|[[Rotterdam Open]]
|Rotterdam, NED
|Hard (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|2001-10-28}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]] <small>(2)</small>
|Basel, SUI
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Bogus Entry
|80.
|{{dts|2010-4-18}}
|[[Indian Wells Masters]]
|Indian Wells, CA, USA
|Wood (i)
|{{flagicon|TOG}} [[John Doe]]
|7–5, 3–6, 1–6, 4–6
|}

We could do it per 92.18.46.233 proposal:

{|class="sortable wikitable" style=font-size:97%
!Outcome!!No.!!width=100|Date!!width=150|Championship!!width=146|Location!!Surface!!width=180|Opponent!!width=250|Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|2000-02-13}}
|[[Marseille Open]]
|Marseille, FRA
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|2000-10-29}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]]
|Basel, SUI
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|2001-02-04}}
||[[Milan Indoor]]
|Milan, ITA
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|2001-02-25}}
|[[Rotterdam Open]]
|Rotterdam, NED
|Hard (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|2001-10-28}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]] <small>(2)</small>
|Basel, SUI
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Bogus Entry
|80.
|{{dts|2010-4-18}}
|[[Indian Wells Masters]]
|Indian Wells, CA, USA
|Wood (i)
|{{flagathlete|[[John Doe]]|TOG}}
|7–5, 3–6, 1–6, 4–6
|}

I still think a collapsible key might work best for the types of charts that were changed by SNC... but with Federer the last might be best. We may not need the location column at all (as per chart one) where we could simply use the country name with no city. This also sorts just fine though I don't think it's a necessity. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:28, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::You seem to forget one thing, the guidelines CAN BE CHANGED.. That's why we're having these discussions, nothing is set in stone! ... I have no clue why CA is included, we wouldn't include the state Chennai is in, or the republic Moscow is located in, but we would include California? American exceptionalism has no place here! --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 19:40, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Of course they can change... that's why I gave these options. One is simply how it must be right now so we have a starting point. If we can't agree we go back to the original. But certainly things can change. I would dump the state too and probably just have the country. However, once decided, it is set in stone until the next time a major discussion is held here. We don't change the page first and then have a discussion. That's why we're here. The article should still be in it's original form until we decide if we'd like to change it. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:52, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::I like what has been detailed above, just need to have the full names of the countries within the tournament, the country codes (and the flags) can remain for the opponent. It's what I like to call Olympic standard. [[User:MasterMind5991|MasterMind5991]] ([[User talk:MasterMind5991|talk]]) 10:15, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
::Its not going back to duplicating.. Really, there is nothing left to argue about, the only thing, the flags are being discussed here... Secondly, why should the city be mentioned.. The tables clearly asks for the Tournament.. Wouldn't it wiser to write Rotterdam Open, Netherlands.. I'm worried at the doubles tables for the most part. Look at the top 10 win double tables: --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:32, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders collapsible collapsed"
|-
! colspan="13" align="center" | Roger Federer's top 10 wins in doubles (its a mess)
|-
! scope="col" |#
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Country
! scope="col" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" colspan="2" |Rank
! scope="col" |Type
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Year
! scope="col" |Surface
! scope="col" |Rd
! width=80 scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|1
|{{flag|SVK}}
|{{sortname|Dominik|Hrbatý}}
|{{flag|AUS}}<br>{{flag|IND}}
|{{sortname|Wayne|Arthurs}}<br>{{sortname|Leander|Paes}}
| width=2 | 22
| width=1 bgcolor=lime data-sort-value="7"|1
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], Miami, United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|2
|{{flag|SVK}}
|{{sortname|Dominik|Hrbatý}}
|{{flag|AUS}}<br>{{flag|AUS}}
|{{sortname|Todd|Woodbridge}}<br>{{sortname|Mark|Woodforde}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA | 9
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |10
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], Miami, United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=ffebcd data-sort-value="6R"|QF
|3–6, 6–4, 6–3
|-
|3
|{{flag|FRA}}
|{{sortname|Nicolas|Escude}}
|{{flag|RSA}}<br>{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Ellis|Ferreira}}<br>{{sortname|Rick|Leach}}
| width=2 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |4
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monte Carlo, Monaco
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|bgcolor=ffebcd data-sort-value="6R"|QF
|6–4, 6–2
|-
|4
|{{Flag|SVK}}
|{{sortname|Dominik|Hrbatý}}
|{{flag|USA}}<br>{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Alex|O'Brien}}<br>{{sortname|Jared|Palmer}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |8
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |7
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|6–2, 6–3
|-
|5
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
|{{flag|BHS}}<br>{{flag|CAN}}
|{{sortname|Mark|Knowles}}<br>{{sortname|Daniel|Nestor}}
| width=2 |11
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |4
|bgcolor=d0f0c0|[[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[2002 ABN AMRO World Tennis Tournament|Rotterdam Open]], Rotterdam, Netherlands
|[[2002 ATP Tour|2002]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=thistle data-sort-value="8R"|F
|4–6, 6–3, [10–4]
|-
|6
|{{Flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
|{{flag|CZE}}<br>{{flag|CZE}}
|{{sortname|Jiří|Novák}}<br>{{sortname|David|Rikl}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |7
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |5
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Indian Wells Masters]], Indian Wells, United States
|[[2002 ATP Tour|2002]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|7
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}} 
|{{flag|USA}}<br>{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Donald|Johnson}}<br>{{sortname|Jared|Palmer}}
| width=2 bgcolor=lime  |1
| width=1 bgcolor=thistle  |2
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Indian Wells Masters]], Indian Wells, United States
|[[2002 ATP Tour|2002]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=yellow data-sort-value="7R"|SF
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|8
|{{flag|RSA}}
|{{sortname|Wayne|Ferreira}} 
|{{flag|ZIM}}<br>{{flag|ZIM}}
|{{sortname|Wayne|Black}}<br>{{sortname|Kevin|Ullyett}} 
| width=2  |11
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |10
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Toronto Masters]], Toronto, United States
|[[2002 ATP Tour|2002]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|6–3, 7–5
|-
|9
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
|{{flag|RUS}}<br>{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Yevgeny|Kafelnikov}}<br>{{sortname|Jared|Palmer}}
| width=2  |14
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |9
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Kremlin Cup]], Moscow, Russia
|[[2002 ATP Tour|2002]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=yellow data-sort-value="7R"|SF
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|10
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
|{{flag|CZE}}<br>{{flag|CZE}}
|{{sortname|Martin|Damm}}<br>{{sortname|Cyril|Suk}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |10
| width=1 |11
|bgcolor=d0f0c0|[[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[ABN AMRO World Tennis Tournament|Rotterdam Open]], Rotterdam, Netherlands
|[[2003 ATP Tour|2003]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=yellow data-sort-value="7R"|SF
|6–4, 3–6, 7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>
|-
|11
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
|{{flag|IND}}<br>{{flag|GBR}}
|{{sortname|Mahesh|Bhupathi}}<br>{{sortname|Tim|Henman}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |4
| width=1  |163
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], Miami, United States
|[[2003 ATP Tour|2003]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=ffebcd data-sort-value="6R"|QF
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|12
|{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}} 
|{{flag|BHS}}<br>{{flag|CAN}}
|{{sortname|Mark|Knowles}}<br>{{sortname|Daniel|Nestor}} 
| width=2 bgcolor=lime  |1
| width=1 bgcolor=thistle  |2
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], Miami, United States
|[[2003 ATP Tour|2003]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee |1R
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|13
|{{flag|THA}}
|{{sortname|Paradorn|Srichaphan}} 
|{{flag|IND}}<br>{{flag|CZE}}
|{{sortname|Leander|Paes}}<br>{{sortname|David|Rikl}}
| width=1  |16
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |10
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monte Carlo, Monaco
|[[2003 ATP Tour|2003]]
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|bgcolor=afeeee |2R
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|14
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Yves|Allegro}}
|{{flag|IND}}<br>{{flag|BLR}}
|{{sortname|Mahesh|Bhupathi}}<br>{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA |5
| width=2 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Erste Bank Open|Vienna Open]], Vienna, Austria
|[[2003 ATP Tour|2003]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=thistle data-sort-value="8R"|F
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 7–5
|-
|15
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Yves|Allegro}} 
|{{flag|IND}}<br>{{flag|AUS}}
|{{sortname|Mahesh|Bhupathi}}<br>{{sortname|Todd|Woodbridge}} 
| width=2 | 12
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA |8
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Gerry Weber Open]], Halle, Germany
|[[2005 ATP Tour|2005]]
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|bgcolor=yellow data-sort-value="7R"|SF
|7–5 ret.
|-
|16
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Stanislas|Wawrinka}} 
|{{flag|USA}}<br>{{flag|USA}}
|{{sortname|Bob|Bryan}}<br>{{sortname|Mike|Bryan}} 
| width=2 bgcolor=thistle |2
| width=1 bgcolor=thistle |2
|bgcolor=gold|[[Tennis at the 2012 Summer Olympics|Olympics]]
|Beijing, China
|[[2008 ATP Tour|2008]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=yellow data-sort-value="7R"|SF
|7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|17
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Stanislas|Wawrinka}} 
|{{flag|SWE}}<br>{{flag|SWE}}
|{{sortname|Simon|Aspelin}}<br>{{sortname|Thomas|Johansson}} 
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA |9
| width=1 |116
|bgcolor=gold|[[Tennis at the 2012 Summer Olympics|Olympics]]
|Beijing, China
|[[2008 ATP Tour|2008]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=thistle data-sort-value="8R"|F
|6–3, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|18
|{{flag|SUI}}
|{{sortname|Stanislas|Wawrinka}}
|{{flag|BLR}}<br>{{flag|CAN}}
|{{sortname|Max|Mirnyi}}<br>{{sortname|Daniel|Nestor}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |6
| width=1 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Indian Wells Masters]], Indian Wells, United States
|[[2011 ATP Tour|2011]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="1R"|1R
|6–1, 6–2
|}

:That is a mess. Anytime the scores have to wrap should raise red flags. Certain categories do not need sortability, and ranking should be the team ranking...not individual ranking. If he beats a doubles player ranked number 3 who is playing with a player ranked number 562, it means nothing. It should be a team ranking. We could try this...

{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders"
|-
! colspan="11" align="center" | Roger Federer's top 10 wins in doubles
|-
|-
! scope="col" |#
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Rank
! scope="col" |Type
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Year
! scope="col" |Surface
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Rd
! width=200 scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|1
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Wayne Arthurs]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Leander Paes]]|IND}}
| width=1 bgcolor=lime data-sort-value="7"|1
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|2
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Todd Woodbridge]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Mark Woodforde]]|AUS}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA | 9
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=ffebcd data-sort-value="6R"|QF
|3–6, 6–4, 6–3
|-
|3
|{{flagathlete|Nicolas Escude|FRA}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Ellis Ferreira]]|RSA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Rick Leach]]|FRA}}
| width=2 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], France
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|bgcolor=ffebcd data-sort-value="6R"|QF
|6–4, 6–2
|-
|4
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Alex O'Brien]]|USA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Jared Palmer]]|USA}}
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |7
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|bgcolor=afeeee data-sort-value="3R"|2R
|6–2, 6–3
|}
This is more compact, gets to the point without extra trivia or columns. To be honest the round is overkill too imho. The tournament link should be to the actual draw article so a reader can see the round there if they're really curious. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 21:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

So then we'd have:
{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders"
|-
! colspan="11" align="center" | Roger Federer's top 10 wins in doubles
|-
|-
! scope="col" |#
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Rank
! scope="col" |Type
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Year
! scope="col" |Surface
! width=200 scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|1
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Wayne Arthurs]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Leander Paes]]|IND}}
| width=1 bgcolor=lime data-sort-value="7"|1
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[2000 Ericsson Open – Men's Doubles|Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|2
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Todd Woodbridge]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Mark Woodforde]]|AUS}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA | 9
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[2000 Ericsson Open – Men's Doubles|Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|3–6, 6–4, 6–3
|-
|3
|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escude]]|FRA}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Ellis Ferreira]]|RSA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Rick Leach]]|FRA}}
| width=2 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], France
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|6–4, 6–2
|-
|4
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|{{flagathlete|[[Alex O'Brien]]|USA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Jared Palmer]]|USA}}
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |7
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|6–2, 6–3
|}
This makes it even tighter and easier to follow. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 21:52, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

and since this is really about the opponenets, and not his partner, the chart should probably reflect that.
{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders"
|-
! colspan="11" align="center" | Roger Federer's top 10 wins in doubles
|-
|-
! scope="col" |#
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Rank
! scope="col" |Type
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Year
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" |Surface
! width=200 scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|1
|{{flagathlete|[[Wayne Arthurs]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Leander Paes]]|IND}}
| width=1 bgcolor=lime data-sort-value="7"|1
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[2000 Ericsson Open – Men's Doubles|Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|2
|{{flagathlete|[[Todd Woodbridge]]|AUS}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Mark Woodforde]]|AUS}}
| width=2 bgcolor=EEE8AA | 9
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[2000 Ericsson Open – Men's Doubles|Miami Masters]], United States
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|3–6, 6–4, 6–3
|-
|3
|{{flagathlete|[[Ellis Ferreira]]|RSA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Rick Leach]]|FRA}}
| width=2 bgcolor=99ccff | 3
| bgcolor=dfe2e9|[[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|1000 series]]
|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], France
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escude]]|FRA}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|6–4, 6–2
|-
|4
|{{flagathlete|[[Alex O'Brien]]|USA}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Jared Palmer]]|USA}}
| width=1 bgcolor=EEE8AA  |7
|[[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|[[2000 ATP Tour|2000]]
|{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|6–2, 6–3
|}
anyway that's my attempts at a fix. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 21:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::First, is this you're way of saying you support the flagathlete version? If so, good. Secondly, if we are to use it, we have to use "data-sort-value="Hrbaty, Dominik | |{{flagathlete|[[Dominik Hrbatý]]|SVK}}" (for instance) so that it sorts properly.... But if we are to shorten the tournament info in doubles top 10 win sections we have to do it in the other tables too.. The list has to be consistent, some tables can't have [tournament name], [city], [country] and others only have [tournament name], [country].. I for that matter want [tournament name], [country].. While the city info is a nice add, it takes much warranted place, and its not needed. Thirdly, how do you find doubles team rank info? Its about top 10 player wins, not top 10 team wins. Please figure this out for me, it would be nice to solve it (if its even possible)... Fourth, we should keep the round information, in you're version to much space is given to the score, and since round information is given in top 10 singles win (i'm again thinking about consistency)...  At last, I have to ask (since you used the "flagathletes" mode in you're example), is this you're way of saying you would support "flagathlete" alternative? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 22:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I would be with others that think the code is unneeded, but it's way better than a separate column. And that's for these types of charts... not for draw charts which are very limited for space as is. The score column should be flexible in size to cover 5 setters with tiebreaks. The score should never wrap. Partner sorting I don't care one way or the other... if it's sorted by Dominik, or Hrbaty, or flag, I don't think it matters. I agree that we should determine if "tournament, country" is what we want or if we leave it as an option if the tables get to wide. I'm ok with either. To be honest I would dump the round in singles as well, but that's only an opinion. Also not every chart we have in tennis articles needs to have an exact parameter. Many should, but cookie-cutter articles that all look like clones of one another is very tedious and should also be avoided. A clean look, certain charts like performance timelines should be the same, readability, ease of use for our readers. If two articles follow that yet look very different that's just fine. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 22:29, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::OK, good... Now guys tell me, whats the remaining issues with the [[Roger Federer career statistics]] (yes, its currently working as a "testing article")???? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 10:34, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I haven't looked at it yet but in the future that is not the proper way to do a test article. Either do the change and immediately change it back but link us to the change, or better create it in your sandbox (where you can work on it to your own delight) and show us that. Don't keep doing it to the original article. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:37, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
:::On first look there is one big problem. Per the ATP site, the site everyone will use to get their info, Federer career ATP finals is at 112 (77–35). That is now nowhere to be seen and every article uses it the same way. It IS his proper ATP recognized total. Yes it's ITF sponsored but they are intrinsically linked. By your well meaning intentions readers and editors will be confused because the total you give of 87 (60 titles, 27 runner-up) is not right. You may not like doubling up of that one table but certain things simply overlap and are part of both. I'm not sure yet on whether I like the Majors as all one color as opposed to what we had before with three separate color. Nothing in MOS precludes doing that. That one I have to think about. More later. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 23:11, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
::I think tables documenting career finals should be kept like this:

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!width=100|Date!!width=320|Championship!!Surface!!width=180|Opponent!!width=250|Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|2000-02-13}}
|[[Marseille Open]], Marseille, France
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|2000-10-29}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|2001-02-04}}
||[[Milan Indoor]], Milan, Italy
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|2001-02-25}}
|[[Rotterdam Open]], Rotterdam, Netherlands
|Hard (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|2001-10-28}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

Its simplistic, easy to understand and readers can always check which category a tournament is part of by looking at the colour coded key/legend at the top of the page. Plus the old format keeps all of a player's finals in one table rather than splitting them off into categories, which is unecessary especially if the tournament isn't considered significant (i.e. grand slams, masters 1000 or year-ending championships. Not to sound offensive, but the suggested format just adds a whole lot of redundant data. The old format works fine, should be used across the board and should continue to be used in the future. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 05:31, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:The only problem with that is it is against MOS to rely on color as the only way to tell about a category. This is because of colorblind and also blind people with verbal readers attached to their computers. We can add multiple things like symbols to the already established color, but it can't be just color. The flags can stay as they were, have separate columns for country codes, use flagathlete (which adds a country code), we could add a key of country flags with full country names, etc. MOS says we should have the country code or name on first use of a flagicon, which we've done on some lists, but some have said that looks dorky so maybe change is in order. My position is to look at what is best and easiest for all our readers, regardless of whether Feature List can be attained. If it's worse for our readers then I don't give two hoots or a holler about FL status. Only if it's against "policy" must we change things... and none of these are against policy. But I will always look to make things better for our tennis fans who want info about their favorite players. What do others think about splitting apart all the finals from a singles chart. I know TIAYN has a problem with doubling up info, but that is his problem not wikis problem. If he can convince enough of us that it's bad to double up, great, we can change. But it's not mandatory nor do I think it will cause an FL request to fail. Only color coding WILL cause an FL request to fail. That's what we are discussing here. We may go back to the original article page if every agreed, but the color only really should be addressed lest it come up again. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 06:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

*So far [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Roger_Federer_career_statistics&oldid=576869320 here is a before] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Roger_Federer_career_statistics&oldid=577496325 here is an after] of the Federer Stat article to help us make up our minds of which is better for our readers... some of whom are kids, some of whom are espn staff, some of whom have a disability. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 06:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I'd prefer to have everything in one table. I've found another way, without creating a "Category/Type" section, we use these instead

{|class="wikitable"
|+Key to the list of finals
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#e5d1cb" align="center"|{{dagger}}
| A [[Grand Slam (tennis)|Grand Slam]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#ffffcc" align="center"|{{double dagger}}
| A [[ATP World Tour Finals|tour final]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#dfe2e9" align="center"|&
| A [[ATP World Tour Masters 1000]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#d0f0c0" align="center"|§
| A [[ATP World Tour 500 series]] event
|-
| width="40px" align="center"|{{up-arrow}}
| A [[ATP World Tour 250 series]] event
|}
Of course, you'll have to see how they turn out first, but I will turn the current version into one unified table, with sorability (so they sort how many GS Federer won by just pushing Tournament (arrow - sort). .. Good idea? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 07:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:You should do it on your sandbox page and let us see. It may look worse than what we now have. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 08:19, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
::Sure, but we really don't have a choice (as far as I see) if we are to create tables for colorblind people too... Its either a "Category/Type" section, the use of symbols or as we have now, which none of us like.--[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 08:44, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I wouldn't say none of us like it. And you never know what someone will come up with if they see multiple choices and an idea hits them. Even in adding a category all the original colors could be kept. You'd just have to add a category to the original chart and leave the rest alone. So we'll see. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 09:07, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

===edit break===
I think this is the answer.... "Outcome" was replaced with "Result" (it takes less place).. Symbols (which is used to help colorblind readers) replaced the current sections/formerly "Category"/"Type" tables sections and gives more place.. The flag template has been replaced by flagathletes. And at last, all tournament categories have been sorted by number.. Grand Slams are 6, tour finals 5, Masters 4, 500 series 3, 250 series 2 and Olympics 1 ... This makes the template sort even better, and having other sections (as we currently have now) within the ATP World Tour sections or having a "Major finals" section (which existed before) becomes superfluous.. At last, the player's names are sorted properly too, all after surname. Is something missing? The full table is below. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 11:03, 17 October 2013 (UTC) 

{|class="wikitable"
|+Key to Grand Slam–ATP World Tour finals
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="e5d1cb" align="center"|<sup>†</sup>
| [[Grand Slam (tennis)|Grand Slam]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#ffffcc" align="center"|<sup>‡</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour Finals|ATP Tour final]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#dfe2e9" align="center"|<sup>↕</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour Masters 1000]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#d0f0c0" align="center"|<sup>↑</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour 500 series]] event
|-
| width="40px" align="center"|<sup>↓</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series]] event
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="silver" align="center"|<sup>§</sup>
| [[Tennis at the Summer Olympics|Summer Olympics]] event
|}

{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders collapsible collapsed"
|-
! colspan="13" align="center" | New, improved table for Roger Federer career statistics (please comment)
|-
! scope="col" width=40 |Result
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Surface
! scope="col" |Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>§</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-01-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Sydney International]], Australia {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Chela, Juan Ignacio"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Ignacio Chela]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|5.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-02-03}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Sanguinetti, Davide"|{{flagathlete|[[Davide Sanguinetti]]|ITA}}
|6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–4, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|6.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-03-31}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Miami Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|3–6, 3–6, 6–3, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-05-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|6–1, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-10-13}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[BA-CA TennisTrophy|Vienna Open]], Austria §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|6–4, 6–1, 3–6, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-02-16}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Bjorkman, Jonas"|{{flagathlete|[[Jonas Björkman]]|SWE}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|6.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-03-02}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|7.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-05-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Bavarian International Tennis Championships]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nieminen, Jarkko"|{{flagathlete|[[Jarkko Nieminen]]|FIN}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|7.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-05-11}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Rome Masters]], Italy $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Mantilla, Felix"|{{flagathlete|[[Félix Mantilla Botella|Félix Mantilla]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 2–6, 6–7<sup>(8–10)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|8.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-06-15}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Kiefer, Nicolas"|{{flagicon|GER}} [[Nicolas Kiefer]]
|6–1, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|9.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-07-06}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2003 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Philippousis, Mark"|{{flagathlete|[[Mark Philippoussis]]|AUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|8.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-07-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Open (tennis)|Swiss Open]], Switzerland {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|7–5, 3–6, 3–6, 6–1, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|10.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-10-12}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[BA-CA TennisTrophy|Vienna Open]], Austria §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Moya, Carlos"|{{flagathlete|[[Carlos Moyà]]|ESP}}
|6–3, 6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|11.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-11-16}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], United States {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|6–3, 6–0, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|12.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-02-01}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|13.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-03-07}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Lopez, Feliciano"|{{flagathlete|[[Feliciano López]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 6–1, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|14.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-03-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|15.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-05-16}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Coria, Guillermo"|{{flagathlete|[[Guillermo Coria]]|ARG}}
|4–6, 6–4, 6–2, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|16.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-06-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Fish, Mardy"|{{flagathlete|[[Mardy Fish]]|USA}}
|6–0, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|17.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-07-04}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|4–6, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|18.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-07-11}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Open (tennis)|Swiss Open]], Switzerland {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Andreev, Igor"|{{flagathlete|[[Igor Andreev]]|RUS}}
|6–2, 6–3, 5–7, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|19.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-08-01}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|7–5, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|20.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-09-12}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2004 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|21.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-10-03}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Thailand Open (tennis)|Thailand Open]], Thailand {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–4, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|22.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-11-21}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], United States {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|23.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-1-9}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|6–3, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|24.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-02-20}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|5–7, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|25.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-2-27}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|6–1, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|26.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-3-20}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–2, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|27.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-4-3}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Miami Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–3, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|28.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-5-15}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Gasquet, Richard"|{{flagathlete|[[Richard Gasquet]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|29.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-6-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|30.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-7-3}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|31.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-08-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–3, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|32.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-9-11}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2005 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|6–3, 2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|33.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-10-2}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Thailand Open (tennis)|Thailand Open]], Thailand {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|9.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-11-20}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 2–6, 1–6, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|34.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-1-8}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Monfils, Gaël"|{{flagathlete|[[Gaël Monfils]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|35.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-1-29}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Baghdatis, Marcos"|{{flagathlete|[[Marcos Baghdatis]]|CYP}}
|5–7, 7–5, 6–0, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|10.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-3-5}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}} 
|6–2, 4–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|36.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-3-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|7–5, 6–3, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|37.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-4-2}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Miami Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|11.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-4-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|12.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-5-14}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Rome Masters]], Italy $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|7–6<sup>(7–0)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 4–6, 6–2, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|13.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-6-11}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–1, 1–6, 4–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|38.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-6-18}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Berdych, Tomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Tomáš Berdych]]|CZE}}
|6–0, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|39.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-7-9}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|40.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-08-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gasquet, Richard"|{{flagathlete|[[Richard Gasquet]]|FRA}}
|2–6, 6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|41.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-9-10}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2006 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 4–6, 7–5, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|42.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-8}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[AIG Japan Open Tennis Championships|Japan Open]], Japan §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|43.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-22}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|7–5, 6–1, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|44.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|6–3, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|45.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-11-19}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|6–0, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|46.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-1-28}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|47.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-3-3}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Youzhny, Mikhail"|{{flagathlete|[[Mikhail Youzhny]]|RUS}}
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|14.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-04-22}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|48.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-5-20}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 6–2, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|15.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-6-10}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|3–6, 6–4, 3–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|49.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-7-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 2–6, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|16.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-08-12}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–2, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|50.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-08-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|51.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-9-9}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2007 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|17.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-10-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Madrid Masters|Madrid]], Spain $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|6–1, 3–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|52.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nieminen, Jarkko"|{{flagathlete|[[Jarkko Nieminen]]|FIN}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|53.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-11-18}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Ferrer, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Ferrer]]|ESP}}
|6–2, 6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|54.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-4-20}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Estoril Open]], Portugal {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Davydenko, Nikolay"|{{flagathlete|[[Nikolay Davydenko]]|RUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 1–2 ret.
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|18
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-4-27}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|19.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-5-18}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|20.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-6-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|1–6, 3–6, 0–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|55.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-6-15}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, Philipp"|{{flagathlete|[[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]|GER}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|21.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-7-6}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafaeal"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles final|4–6, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(10–8)</sup>, 7–9]]
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|56.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-9-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2008 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–2, 7–5, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|57.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-10-26}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|22.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-02-01}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 6–3, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|58.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-5-17}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|59.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-6-7}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Soderling, Robin"|{{flagathlete|[[Robin Söderling]]|SWE}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|60.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-7-5}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 3–6, 16–14
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|61.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-08-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–1, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|23.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-9-14}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2009 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|24.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-11-8}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|4–6, 6–4, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|62.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-1-31}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2010 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–4, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|25.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-5-16}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|26.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-6-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|27.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-08-15}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|5–7, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|63.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-08-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Fish, Mardy"|{{flagathlete|[[Mardy Fish]]|USA}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|28.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-10-17}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Shanghai Masters (tennis)|Shanghai Masters]], China $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|64.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-10-24}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Stockholm Open]], Sweden {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Mayer, Florian"|{{flagathlete|[[Florian Mayer]]|GER}}
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|65.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-11-7}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–4, 3–6, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|66.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-11-28}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–3, 3–6, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|67.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-1-8}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Davydenko, Nikolay"|{{flagathlete|[[Nikolay Davydenko]]|RUS}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|29.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-02-26}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|3–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|30.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-06-05}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2011 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 7–5, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|68.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-06}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nishikori, Kei"|{{flagathlete|[[Kei Nishikori]]|JPN}}
|6–1, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|69.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Paris Masters]], France $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried"|{{flagathlete|[[Jo-Wilfried Tsonga]]|FRA}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|70.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-27}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried"|{{flagathlete|[[Jo-Wilfried Tsonga]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|71.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-02-19}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|72.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-03-03}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|7–5, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|73.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-03-18}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Isner, John"|{{flagathlete|[[John Isner]]|USA}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|74.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-05-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Berdych, Tomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Tomáš Berdych]]|CZE}}
|3–6, 7–5, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|31.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-6-17}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Haas, Tommy"|{{flagathlete|[[Tommy Haas]]|GER}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|75.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-7-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|[[2012 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom {{dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|4–6, 7–5, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|32.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-8-5}}
|data-sort-value="1" style=background:silver|[[Tennis at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's singles|Summer Olympics]], United Kingdom {{down-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|2–6, 1–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|76.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-08-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States $
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|33.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland §
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|34.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-11-12}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom {{double dagger}}
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|35.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2013-5-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|[[Rome Masters]], Italy $
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|1–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|77.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2013-6-16}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany {{up-arrow}}
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Youzhny, Mikhail"|{{flagathlete|[[Mikhail Youzhny]]|RUS}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–3, 6–4
|}
====New improved table discussion====
:I would consider putting the icons before the tournament name; and in the key box, you could simply put "Grand Slam events"/"tour final events" and so on, rather than "A GS event", "A tour final" event etc. Also, for the data sort value of players' names – if you omit the given names, you'd save a lot of unneeded bytes. Looks OK though... [[User:Jared Preston|Jared Preston]] ([[User talk:Jared Preston|talk]]) 11:24, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
::I changed the first 4 entries to before, and I superscripted them to make them a bit less pronounced. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:35, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
::::I can't merge the sections in the "Key to Grand Slam–ATP World Tour finals" infobox, then the whole point would be gone.. It exists to explain to colorblind readers what category tournaments are in. Or do you mean I should write instead "Grand Slam" instead of "A Grand Slam event".. If thats what you meant I'll comply.. I'll wait another hour, but If I don't here anymore constructive criticism, I'll replace the current format which exists in the Roger Federer career statistics article/list. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 19:34, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::yes the letter "A" in the key looks bad. Also, because you refuse to do this on a sandbox page, finding this thread to comment on is extremely difficult. I had to scroll back and forth for a minute or so just to be able to write this. Others might give up completely. You also seem to want this done instantly and many of our editors only check this area once a week or so. So whatever is decided we must wait a week before implementing so everyone has time to comment. This is why the page should have been left in it's original form instead of changing it every day with new ideas. I also say superscript those characters. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 20:41, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:::What does "superscript" mean? OK, we'll implement the changes on Monday. Good enough? ... And yes, I like to take as short time as possible.. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 20:54, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
:::: No, that's not good enough. The changes being proposed here affect thousands of tennis articles. For that reason alone we should let this discussion run its course and ensure we have thoroughly addressed all relevant aspects and reached a consensus. Only then will we move forward with the implementation. We should take all the time we need and preferably get more input from other tennis editors. There is no need to rush and setting arbitrary deadlines is not helpful to the process.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 20:47, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::I'm wondering if we should go back to the original approved consensus version while we wait for other editors to take a look at this? Jajj47 has been fighting a losing battle, mostly by himself, trying to do so. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 21:00, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
::We'll wait until monday. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 02:02, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders collapsible collapsed"
|-
! colspan="13" align="center" | Amended version
|-
! scope="col" width=40 |Result
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-01-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Sydney International]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Chela, Juan Ignacio"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Ignacio Chela]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|5.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-02-03}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Sanguinetti, Davide"|{{flagathlete|[[Davide Sanguinetti]]|ITA}}
|6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–4, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|6.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-03-31}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Miami Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|3–6, 3–6, 6–3, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-05-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|6–1, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2002-10-13}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[BA-CA TennisTrophy|Vienna Open]], Austria
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|6–4, 6–1, 3–6, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-02-16}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Bjorkman, Jonas"|{{flagathlete|[[Jonas Björkman]]|SWE}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|6.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-03-02}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|7.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-05-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Bavarian International Tennis Championships]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nieminen, Jarkko"|{{flagathlete|[[Jarkko Nieminen]]|FIN}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|7.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-05-11}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Rome Masters]], Italy
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Mantilla, Felix"|{{flagathlete|[[Félix Mantilla Botella|Félix Mantilla]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 2–6, 6–7<sup>(8–10)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|8.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-06-15}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Kiefer, Nicolas"|{{flagicon|GER}} [[Nicolas Kiefer]]
|6–1, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|9.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-07-06}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2003 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Philippousis, Mark"|{{flagathlete|[[Mark Philippoussis]]|AUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|8.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-07-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Open (tennis)|Swiss Open]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Novak, Jiri"|{{flagathlete|[[Jiří Novák]]|CZE}}
|7–5, 3–6, 3–6, 6–1, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|10.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-10-12}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[BA-CA TennisTrophy|Vienna Open]], Austria
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Moya, Carlos"|{{flagathlete|[[Carlos Moyà]]|ESP}}
|6–3, 6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|11.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2003-11-16}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|6–3, 6–0, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|12.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-02-01}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2004 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|13.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-03-07}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Lopez, Feliciano"|{{flagathlete|[[Feliciano López]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 6–1, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|14.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-03-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|15.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-05-16}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Coria, Guillermo"|{{flagathlete|[[Guillermo Coria]]|ARG}}
|4–6, 6–4, 6–2, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|16.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-06-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Fish, Mardy"|{{flagathlete|[[Mardy Fish]]|USA}}
|6–0, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|17.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-07-04}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2004 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|4–6, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|18.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-07-11}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Open (tennis)|Swiss Open]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Andreev, Igor"|{{flagathlete|[[Igor Andreev]]|RUS}}
|6–2, 6–3, 5–7, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|19.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-08-01}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|7–5, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|20.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-09-12}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2004 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|21.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-10-03}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Thailand Open (tennis)|Thailand Open]], Thailand
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–4, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|22.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2004-11-21}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|23.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-1-9}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|6–3, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|24.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-02-20}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|5–7, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|25.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-2-27}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|6–1, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|26.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-3-20}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–2, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|27.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-4-3}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Miami Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–3, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|28.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-5-15}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Gasquet, Richard"|{{flagathlete|[[Richard Gasquet]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|29.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-6-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Safin, Marat"|{{flagathlete|[[Marat Safin]]|RUS}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|30.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-7-3}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2005 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom 
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|31.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-08-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–3, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|32.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-9-11}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2005 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Agassi, Andre"|{{flagathlete|[[Andre Agassi]]|USA}}
|6–3, 2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|33.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-10-2}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Thailand Open (tennis)|Thailand Open]], Thailand
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|9.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2005-11-20}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>, 2–6, 1–6, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|34.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-1-8}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Monfils, Gaël"|{{flagathlete|[[Gaël Monfils]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|35.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-1-29}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2006 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Baghdatis, Marcos"|{{flagathlete|[[Marcos Baghdatis]]|CYP}}
|5–7, 7–5, 6–0, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|10.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-3-5}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}} 
|6–2, 4–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|36.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-3-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|7–5, 6–3, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|37.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-4-2}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Miami Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Ljubicic, Ivan"|{{flagathlete|[[Ivan Ljubičić]]|CRO}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|11.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-4-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|12.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-5-14}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Rome Masters]], Italy
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|7–6<sup>(7–0)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 4–6, 6–2, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|13.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-6-11}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2006 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–1, 1–6, 4–6, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|38.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-6-18}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Berdych, Tomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Tomáš Berdych]]|CZE}}
|6–0, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|39.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-7-9}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2006 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|40.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-08-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gasquet, Richard"|{{flagathlete|[[Richard Gasquet]]|FRA}}
|2–6, 6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|41.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-9-10}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2006 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|6–2, 4–6, 7–5, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|42.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-8}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[AIG Japan Open Tennis Championships|Japan Open]], Japan
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|43.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-22}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|7–5, 6–1, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|44.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|6–3, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|45.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2006-11-19}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|6–0, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|46.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-1-28}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2007 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Gonzalez, Fernando"|{{flagathlete|[[Fernando González]]|CHI}}
|7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|47.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-3-3}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Youzhny, Mikhail"|{{flagathlete|[[Mikhail Youzhny]]|RUS}}
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|14.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-04-22}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|48.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-5-20}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|2–6, 6–2, 6–0
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|15.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-6-10}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2007 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France 
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|3–6, 6–4, 3–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|49.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-7-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2007 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 2–6, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|16.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-08-12}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>, 6–2, 6–7<sup>(2–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|50.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-08-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Blake, James"|{{flagathlete|[[James Blake]]|USA}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|51.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-9-9}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2007 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|7–6<sup>(7–4)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–2)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|17.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-10-21}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Madrid Masters|Madrid]], Spain
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|6–1, 3–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|52.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nieminen, Jarkko"|{{flagathlete|[[Jarkko Nieminen]]|FIN}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|53.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2007-11-18}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals|Tennis Masters Cup]], China
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Ferrer, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Ferrer]]|ESP}}
|6–2, 6–3, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|54.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-4-20}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Estoril Open]], Portugal
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Davydenko, Nikolay"|{{flagathlete|[[Nikolay Davydenko]]|RUS}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 1–2 ret.
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|18
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-4-27}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Monte Carlo Masters]], Monaco
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|19.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-5-18}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Hamburg Masters]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|20.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-6-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2008 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|1–6, 3–6, 0–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|55.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-6-15}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, Philipp"|{{flagathlete|[[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]|GER}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|21.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-7-6}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafaeal"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|[[2008 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles final|4–6, 4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(10–8)</sup>, 7–9]]
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|56.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-9-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2008 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–2, 7–5, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|57.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2008-10-26}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nalbandian, David"|{{flagathlete|[[David Nalbandian]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|22.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-02-01}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2009 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 6–3, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|58.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-5-17}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–4, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|59.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-6-7}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2009 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Soderling, Robin"|{{flagathlete|[[Robin Söderling]]|SWE}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|60.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-7-5}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2009 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Roddick, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Roddick]]|USA}}
|5–7, 7–6<sup>(8–6)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 3–6, 16–14
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|61.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-08-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–1, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|23.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-9-14}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2009 US Open – Men's Singles|US Open]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|24.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2009-11-8}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|4–6, 6–4, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|62.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-1-31}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2010 Australian Open – Men's Singles|Australian Open]], Australia
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|6–3, 6–4, 7–6<sup>(13–11)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|25.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-5-16}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|4–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|26.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-6-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Hewitt, Lleyton"|{{flagathlete|[[Lleyton Hewitt]]|AUS}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|27.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-08-15}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Canadian Open (tennis)|Canadian Open]], Canada
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|5–7, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|63.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-08-23}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Fish, Mardy"|{{flagathlete|[[Mardy Fish]]|USA}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 7–6<sup>(7–1)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|28.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-10-17}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Shanghai Masters (tennis)|Shanghai Masters]], China
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 2–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|64.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-10-24}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Stockholm Open]], Sweden
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Mayer, Florian"|{{flagathlete|[[Florian Mayer]]|GER}}
|6–4, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|65.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-11-7}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–4, 3–6, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|66.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2010-11-28}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|6–3, 3–6, 6–1
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|67.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-1-8}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Qatar Open (tennis)|Qatar Open]], Qatar
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Davydenko, Nikolay"|{{flagathlete|[[Nikolay Davydenko]]|RUS}}
|6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|29.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-02-26}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|3–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|30.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-06-05}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2011 French Open – Men's Singles|French Open]], France
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|5–7, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>, 7–5, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|68.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-06}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Nishikori, Kei"|{{flagathlete|[[Kei Nishikori]]|JPN}}
|6–1, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|69.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Paris Masters]], France
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried"|{{flagathlete|[[Jo-Wilfried Tsonga]]|FRA}}
|6–1, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|70.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2011-11-27}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried"|{{flagathlete|[[Jo-Wilfried Tsonga]]|FRA}}
|6–3, 6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|71.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-02-19}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|72.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-03-03}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Dubai Tennis Championships]], United Arab Emirates
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|7–5, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|73.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-03-18}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Indian Wells Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Isner, John"|{{flagathlete|[[John Isner]]|USA}}
|7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>, 6–3
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|74.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-05-13}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Madrid Open (tennis)|Madrid Masters]], Spain
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Berdych, Tomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Tomáš Berdych]]|CZE}}
|3–6, 7–5, 7–5
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|31.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-6-17}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Haas, Tommy"|{{flagathlete|[[Tommy Haas]]|GER}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|75.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-7-8}}
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#e5d1cb|<sup>†</sup>[[2012 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|4–6, 7–5, 6–3, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|32.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-8-5}}
|data-sort-value="1" style=background:silver|<sup>§</sup>[[Tennis at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's singles|Summer Olympics]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Murray, Andy"|{{flagathlete|[[Andy Murray]]|GBR}}
|2–6, 1–6, 4–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|76.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-08-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Cincinnati Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(9–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|33.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#d0f0c0|<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Potro, Juan Martin del"|{{flagathlete|[[Juan Martín del Potro]]|ARG}}
|4–6, 7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–7<sup>(3–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|34.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2012-11-12}}
|data-sort-value="5" style=background:#ffffcc|<sup>‡</sup>[[ATP World Tour Finals]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Djokovic, Novak"|{{flagathlete|[[Novak Djokovic]]|SRB}}
|6–7<sup>(6–8)</sup>, 5–7
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|35.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2013-5-19}}
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#dfe2e9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Rome Masters]], Italy
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Nadal, Rafael"|{{flagathlete|[[Rafael Nadal]]|ESP}}
|1–6, 3–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|77.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2013-6-16}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Gerry Weber Open]], Germany
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="Youzhny, Mikhail"|{{flagathlete|[[Mikhail Youzhny]]|RUS}}
|6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>, 6–3, 6–4
|}

====Discussion (for or against table above)====
I just changed the key you made to what I think are more logical choices for symbols. 1000, 500, 250, now being double arrow, up arrow, down arrow respectively. They are also super-scripted. Whether this is better than simply having a column that says 1000, 500, 250, etc... is a matter of opinion. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 22:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
::I am for the "amended table" presented above. It keeps all the info in one table and I think this option would be best for all. It clearly identifies all the tournament categories and isn't too much of a drastic change from the existing format, which is still the best in my opinion. Its just unfortunate that color blind readers would not be able to read the data in this format. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 10:12, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I haven't followed the discussion above very much but I think the use of both flag and country code should be left for the [[Tennis at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's singles|Olympics' draw sheets]] where players are playing for their nations more than at regual ATP events. I must say I'd actually prefer the use of only country codes, the flags give an impression of players playing for their flag. But that was just my two cents. --[[User:August90|August90]] ([[User talk:August90|talk]]) 14:38, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Do I like this new table for career statistics better than the old table... no. The old table is on thousands of articles and our editors are very comfortable with it. I would guess that thousands more will be created in this same manner since there is no way we will systematically go through and change them. That said I can't think of an alternative other than the one proposed that will also be helpful for the handicapped that view our wikipedia tennis articles. If anyone can think of another possibility please speak up in the next week or so. It looks like we have two important items that are being discussed here. Whether, in career statistic sections only, to change from flagicon to flagathlete; and whether to change the key to include symbols for the tournament types as opposed to just color. It was also suggested that we simply use a new column with tags such as 1000, 500, 250, grand slam, etc instead of using symbols. That might actually be easier for new editors. Neither of these changes is required by wiki policy but to get one of our articles to "Featured List" we cannot use just color as a label per Wiki MOS. The flag issue is more of a like/don't like thing. For me the old way of a simple flag icon for players works fine, but many editors like to see the country code also (at least on a flagicon's first use). We could leave it as or use a more universal flagathlete, which does lengthen a column but adds a 3 letter country code after each name. I believe it may make it easier to sort? Not sure on that. But there we are. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

{{OD}}Ok, so this is what I'm seeing in the discussion that we are deciding on. Remember this is what is best and easiest for our many readers... that's always the bottom line.

*Choice 1. Per Guidelines now. Until changed by consensus this is the table we use. There is talk of changing the word "outcome" to "result" but that is a very minor issue.
{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|2000-02-13}}
|[[Marseille Open]], Marseille, France
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|2000-10-29}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|2001-02-04}}
||[[Milan Indoor]], Milan, Italy
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=D4F1C5
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|2001-02-25}}
|[[Rotterdam Open]], Rotterdam, Netherlands
|Hard (i)
|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|2001-10-28}}
|[[Swiss Indoors]], Basel, Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 2. The chart below incorporates five changes; 1) using flagathlete instead of flagicon, 2) using symbols to designate the tournament type (we would insert these symbols into the key), 3) using only the country name after the tournament to conserve space, 4) using colors for surface field and 5) using the championship color only on the championship field.

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|<sup>§</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↑</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 3. The chart below incorporates five changes; 1) using flagathlete instead of flagicon, 2) using a new column to designate the tournament type, 3) using only the country name after the tournament to conserve space, 4) using color for surface field and 5) using the championship color on the championship name/type. This takes up more width than our guideline chart but then again since only the country name is used in tournaments it's pretty much a wash.

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 4. The chart below incorporates four changes; 1) using a new column to designate the tournament type, 2) using only the country name after the tournament to conserve space, 3) using color for surface field and 4) using the championship color on the championship name/type. This uses our standard version of flagicon (which seems to sort just fine) and has passed muster on other FL attempts. If needed a large collapsible flag key could be inserted on every tennis article to show users the full country name of the flag instead of a country code (which many find just as tough to decipher as the small flag).

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 5. I also guess we could use a combo of sorts, though it wasn't discussed. This would be the like choice four except the color representing the tournaments would go across the whole row and we'd go back to no court color. So... The chart below incorporates two changes; 1) using a new column to designate the tournament type, 2) using only the country name after the tournament to conserve space. The color across the entire row could be used on any charts above, if preferred.

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 6. Category section, surface coloring, flagathlete and the old coloring going through.

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 7. Two changes, category field and flagathlete.

{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagathlete|[[Marc Rosset]]|SUI}}
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagathlete|[[Thomas Enqvist]]|SWE}}
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagathlete|[[Julien Boutter]]|FRA}}
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagathlete|[[Nicolas Escudé]]|FRA}}
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagathlete|[[Tim Henman]]|GBR}}
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}

*Choice 8. The chart below incorporates six changes; 1) using flagicon with country code in its own section, 2) using symbols to designate the tournament type (we would insert these symbols into the key), 3) using only the country name after the tournament to conserve space, 4) using colors for surface field and 5) using the championship color only on the championship field.

{|class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders"
|-
! scope="col" |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" | Tournament
! scope="col" | Surface
! scope="col" | Country
! scope="col" | Opponent
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1
|6 July 2003
|data-sort-value="6" style=background:#F3E6D7|<sup>†</sup>[[2003 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles|Wimbledon]], United Kingdom
|bgcolor=CCFFCC|Grass
|data-sort-value="AUS"|{{flag|AUS}} 
|{{sortname|Mark|Philippoussis}}
|7–6<sup>(7–5)</sup>, 6–2, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|2
|1 February 2004
|data-sort-value="4" style=background:#E9E9E9|<sup>↕</sup>[[Miami Masters]], United States
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="RUS"|{{flag|RUS}} 
|{{sortname|Marat|Safin}}
|7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4, 6–2
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1
|4 July 2004
|data-sort-value="2" |<sup>↓</sup>[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland 
|bgcolor=thistle|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="USA"|{{flag|USA}} 
|{{sortname|Andy|Roddick}}
|4–6, 7–5, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3
|12 September 2004
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|<sup>↑</sup>[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="FRA"|{{flag|FRA}} 
|{{sortname|Nicolas|Mahut}}
|6–0, 7–6<sup>(7–3)</sup>, 6–0
|}

*Choice 9. None of the above or a variation on the above that we haven't thought of. Please be specific so we can best understand what might work better.


I think these are the main issues we are all looking at. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 20:58, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

====Discussion (on the 9 choices above)====
*'''Choice 5''' - I guess I can go first. I'm flexible on this whole thing but I like the chart we have now. The only major problem is the color for those readers with eye problems. After looking at all the solutions I think it's easier to code and easier for readers to use a separate column for the tournament type. It takes a little more room but getting rid of the city should compensate. I don't care if the tournament color goes all the way across or not, but if it ain't broke why fix it. Same with surface color... we don't need it imho. This is a minimal change approach and if everyone wants the flagathlete it's no real problem for me, I just don't prefer it. I've never felt the country code adds much and one day someone is bound to say we need it on draws as well. I guess we could give two choices in the guidelines of the original and an FL quality chart, but if all we do is this extra column and country only, it shouldn't be that hard to fix as we go along. This will help the colorblind and blind with screen readers, yet not be a big burden to editors in making new charts. We would need to do the same with the ladies chart but they use different designations than 1000, 500 or 250. Those are also very new terms so older charts may not be applicable to this column change. Those are my thoughts at this hour. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 06:00, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
*'''Choice 2, 3, 6 or 7''' They all sort because I've used "|data-sort-value="Enqvist, T"|" (or any other name)... --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 06:17, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' Can someone experiment and do a table with all the changes but with a separate opponents nationality column using the flag template so that one can sort by nationality and have that as choice 8. [[Special:Contributions/92.18.30.191|92.18.30.191]] ([[User talk:92.18.30.191|talk]]) 12:47, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Like Choice 8? (or do you mean like that, just without the country codes?) --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 13:01, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
*'''Choice 1 or 5''' – I still think the existing format works best and it should be kept that way but I would settle for option 5, purely because of the colour blind issue. I agree with Fyunck(click) on surface colour, it's not required. A suggestion for the new category column: we should probably merge those cells together to reduce redundancy and only link to that category once. I've included a table below to show what I mean. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 07:02, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
*'''Choice 1, 5 or 7''' I think our existing setup (choice 1) is pretty good but we should always be open to further improvements. Of the options given my preference is for  choice 5 or 7. A) As others I also believe we do not need to add a color to the Surface field. Seems that lately some tables in tennis articles are going overboard on color usage to the detriment of readability. Sometimes less is more. B) I support the use of a separate field to designate the tournament type. It's more intuitive than using symbols to indicate the tournament type (the up and down arrows are particularly confusing) and doesn't take up too much space. We should test it with previous tournament classification schemes to make sure it works for those as well. C) I'm in favor of the suggestion to rename the 'Outcome' field to 'Result' and to make the 'No.' field non-sortable to save a bit of space and make more room for other fields such as 'Championship'. D) Ideally the 'Championship' field should contain tournament name, city and country, as per current guidelines, but that probably takes up too much space and in that case tournament name, country is clearly a better option than city, country. Many tournament names already display the city so if a field needs to be dropped it's logical to drop the city field. E) I'm still struggling a bit with the flagicon issue. It doesn't seem to be an absolute policy requirement to add the country name / code to all flagicons (just first usage of a flagicon). But per MOS:FLAG there are accessibility issues involved with using only flagicons and for that reason, and to avoid endless future discussions on this issue, I'm leaning towards supporting the use of flagathlete instead of flagicon (choice 7). Perhaps this is the right time to make that change. And while on the subject we should also figure out a way to address the MOS:FLAG requirement: ''Where flags are used in a table, it should clearly indicate that they correspond to representative nationality, not legal nationality, if any confusion might arise.'' --[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 22:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
*:A couple things though. In looking up screen readers they seem to handle "flagicon" just fine. They read out the country code per [http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Flagicon the flag icon template]. We also have [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Flag_Template#.22Shortcut.22_flag_templates|a flag template help file]] that isn't too happy about the country codes either. While USA is known by many often that is not the case as with BDI. Perhaps it would be best to simply have something at the start of a chart that says: '''''Flag icon key: [[List of IOC country codes|National Flags]]'''''.  There we get the country code, the full country name and flags.. that's more than we get now. We don't have to change every article's coding, just add the key. Unless someone wants to take that same info and turn it into a separate template. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 00:46, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:I concurre with Wolbo here. The sortability of the "No." section should be removed since its not needed (it sorts the same way in the date section as in the No. section, therefore two sections which sorts exactly the same way is not needed). I agree with Wolbo.  --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 08:31, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

=====Doubles tables=====
{|class="sortable wikitable"
!Outcome!!No.!!Date!!Category!!Championship!!Surface!!Opponent!!Score
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-02-13}}
|rowspan="3"| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Marseille Open]], France
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Rosset, Marc"|{{flagicon|SUI}} [[Marc Rosset]]
|6–2, 3–6, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|2.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2000-10-29}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Enqvist, Thomas"|{{flagicon|SWE}} [[Thomas Enqvist]]
|2–6, 6–4, 6–7<sup>(4–7)</sup>, 6–1, 1–6
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|1.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-04}}
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Milan Indoor]], Italy
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Boutter, Julien"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Julien Boutter]]
|6–4, 6–7<sup>(7–9)</sup>, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-02-25}}
|style=background:#D4F1C5| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|data-sort-value="3" style=background:#D4F1C5|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands 
|Hard (i)
|data-sort-value="Escude, Nicolas"|{{flagicon|FRA}} [[Nicolas Escudé]]
|5–7, 6–3, 6–7<sup>(5–7)</sup>
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|4.
|{{dts|format=dmy|2001-10-28}}
| 250 series
|data-sort-value="2" |[[Swiss Indoors]], Switzerland <small>(2)</small>
|Carpet (i)
|data-sort-value="Henman, Tim"|{{flagicon|GBR}} [[Tim Henman]]
|3–6, 4–6, 2–6
|}
::Choice 5, or any thing with "category", doesn't work for double tables (they become a mess); --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:31, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" width=40 |Result
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Surface
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" width=60 | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3
|6 May 2007
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Bavarian International Tennis Championships]], Germany
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, P"|{{flag|GER}} [[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]
| data-sort-value="Levinsky, Jan"|{{flagathlete|[[Jan Hájek|Jan Hájek (tennis)]]|CZE}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Jaroslav Levinský]]|CZE}}
|6–1, 6–4
|-
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3
|24 February 2008
|style=background:#d0f0c0| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands
|bgcolor=EBC2AF|Clay
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, P"|{{flag|GER}} [[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]
| data-sort-value="Tursunov, Dmitry"|{{flagathlete|[[Tomáš Berdych]]|CZE}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Dmitry Tursunov]]|RUS}}
|5–7, 6–3, [7–10]
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5
|5 October 2008
|style=background:#d0f0c0| [[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Japan Open Tennis Championships]], Japan
|bgcolor=CCCCFF|Hard
|data-sort-value="Zverev, M"|{{flag|GER}} [[Mischa Zverev]]
| data-sort-value="Leander, Paes"|{{flagathlete|[[Lukáš Dlouhý]]|CZE}}<br>{{flagathlete|[[Leander Paes]]|IND}}
|6–3, 6–4
|}

so it's looking like chart 5, which for doubles would work somewhat like this:
{|class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" width=40 |Outcome
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | No.
! scope="col" |Date
! scope="col" |Category
! scope="col" |Tournament
! scope="col" |Surface
! scope="col" |Partner
! scope="col" |Opponents
! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Score
|-
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|3.
|6 May 2007
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series|250 series]]
|[[Bavarian International Tennis Championships|Bavarian International]], Germany
|Clay
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, P"|{{flagicon|GER}} [[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]
| data-sort-value="Levinsky, Jan"|{{flagicon|CZE}}[[Jan Hájek (tennis)|Jan Hájek]]<br>{{flagicon|CZE}}[[Jaroslav Levinský]]
|6–1, 6–4
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=FFA07A|Runner-up
|3.
|24 February 2008
|[[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Rotterdam Open]], Netherlands
|Clay
|data-sort-value="Kohlschreiber, P"|{{flagicon|GER}} [[Philipp Kohlschreiber]]
| data-sort-value="Tursunov, Dmitry"|{{flagicon|CZE}}[[Tomáš Berdych]]<br>{{flagicon|RUS}}[[Dmitry Tursunov]]
|5–7, 6–3, [7–10]
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|bgcolor=98FB98|Winner
|5.
|5 October 2008
|[[ATP World Tour 500 series|500 series]]
|[[Japan Open Tennis Championships|Japan Open]], Japan
|Hard
|data-sort-value="Zverev, M"|{{flagicon|GER}} [[Mischa Zverev]]
| data-sort-value="Leander, Paes"|{{flagicon|CZE}}[[Lukáš Dlouhý]]<br>{{flagicon|IND}}[[Leander Paes]]
|6–3, 6–4
|}
I see no problems with this simple solution. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:04, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
::I support the change to option 5. Just a suggestion, I've noticed on the [[Roger Federer career statistics]] page that the tables for his grand slam and masters 1000 finals have been removed. I am proposing that we restore them because I think it would be beneficial for readers who just want to look at how many "significant finals" a player has made in their career. It would save readers the trouble of having to count how many major finals a player has reached, one by one in their career finals table and I think that the status of grand slam and masters 1000 tournaments are strong enough to warrant extra tables for them. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 03:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I do somewhat agree. However 1) total majors won could be given above the table 2) the totals are given in the opening infobox table to the right, 3) the tournament sorting does put them all together (though it's sad not to see the different colors for the different majors). [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 04:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Even so, I strongly believe that majors and masters should have separate tables, and I am confident that a lot of other editors would agree with me. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 05:26, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::Well there is no rule against it (nor likely to be) so it's an article by article decision. Whatever is decided on the career chart format has no bearing on whether we add extra charts to particular players. That will simply be consensus on the article talk page. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 06:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::There is no reason to duplicate information, secondly, the only thing a user has to do is to press sortability button in the table and the tables get sorted after category; 250, 500, 1000 etc.. Show me a good list which duplicates information... No reason, the tables are sortable (and this is the reason for using sortability in the first place). So if a user wants to find out how many Masters 1000 Federer won he only needs to press the sort button and it gets sorted. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 08:28, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::::As he pointed out though... no one wants to count up how many, and when you have a separate chart you also have a separate total. That separate total is very handy to see. So as I said we could also put the total of Majors won above the chart. Those are more important than everything else in that chart combined. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 08:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::Thats were the lead comes in, Federer has reached 21 Grand Slam finals, won 17 of them, reached $ Masters 1000 finals, ..... You can't duplicate information, and yes, they should have to count. If not, then the tables should be separate (for all of the categories). Secondly, this is why we have this table, isn't it? Or should we just stop using it? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:04, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

:::One thing you keep saying that I don't believe exists at wikipedia... "You can't duplicate information." That is only your opinion, not fact by any stretch of imagination. If you can produce a policy that says that, then fine. If you can't, then please stop saying it as if it is policy. There are plenty of times the info will be included in multiple charts and paragraphs. Plus in the incorrect chart now sitting at Feds career stats, you have above the chart the words: "Singles: 113 (77 titles, 36 runners-up)." Well guess what... that duplicates what's in the infobox also. Why, because it's pertinent to the chart as is the Major totals we are talking about. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 09:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::I don't even get you're point here, we can summaries the Roger Federer career statistics, as have been done in the tables below.. But summarising is something entirely different then duplicating. Thirdly, what is so "incorrect" with the current RF table? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:36, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

:::As they stand now, those charts are against consensus guidelines. We may be attempting to change those guidelines but you are putting the cart before the horse. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 09:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Another thing that is becoming a glaring problem. You keep making tweaks to the article (such as result over outcome), when those very premature charts are about to be eliminated and changed into something different. No one agrees with the way they are now so adding tweaks that will be deleted don't help the situation at all. They should NEVER have been left with any of those edits in the first place. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 09:40, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, If you remember, we had a discussion (which lasted a week, for or against that table layout)... Few responded, those who did had nothing against it. So no, you're wrong. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:46, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

{|class="infobox vcard vevent" width=40%
|-bgcolor=FFFF99
!colspan=6|Career finals
|-
!Modality!!Type!!Won!!Lost!!Total!!WR<sup>1</sup>
|-
|rowspan=7|Singles||Grand Slam tournaments||align=center|17||align=center|7||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |24||0.71
|-
|Year-End Championships||align=center|6||align=center|2||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |8||0.75
|-
|ATP Masters 1000<sup>2</sup>||align=center|21||align=center|13||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |34||0.62
|-
|Summer Olympics||align=center|0||align=center|1||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |1||0.00
|-
|ATP Tour 500||align=center|12||align=center|6||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |18||0.67
|-
|ATP Tour 250||align=center|21||align=center|7||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |28||0.75
|-bgcolor=98FB98
|Total||align=center|77||align=center|36||align=center|113||0.68
|-
|rowspan=7|Doubles||Grand Slam tournaments||align=center|–||align=center|–||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |–||align=center|–
|-
|Year-End Championships||align=center|–||align=center|–||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |–||align=center|–
|-
|ATP Masters 1000<sup>2</sup>||align=center|1||align=center|2||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |3||0.33
|-
|Summer Olympics||align=center|1||align=center|0||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |1||1.00
|-
|ATP Tour 500||align=center|3||align=center|1||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |4||0.75
|-
|ATP Tour 250||align=center|3||align=center|2||bgcolor=CCCCFF align=center |5||0.60
|-bgcolor=98FB98
|Total||align=center|8||align=center|5||align=center|13||0.62
|-bgcolor=FFCCCC
|colspan=2|Total||align=center|85||align=center|41||align=center|126||0.67
|-
|colspan=6|<sup>1)</sup> WR=winning rate<br><sup>2)</sup> *formerly known as "Super 9" (1996–1999), "Tennis Masters Series" (2000–2003) or "ATP Masters Series" (2004–2008).
|}

:::Or we can use this one;

{|class=wikitable
!Legend
|-bgcolor=e5d1cb
|Grand Slam tournaments (13–5)
|-bgcolor=ffffcc
|Year-End Championships (0–1)
|-bgcolor=dfe2e9
|ATP World Tour Masters 1000 (26–11)
|-bgcolor=gold
|Olympics (1–0)
|-bgcolor=d0f0c0
|ATP World Tour 500 Series (14–3)
|-
|ATP World Tour 250 Series (6–4)
|}
--[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:04, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Or like this; --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:07, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
{|class="wikitable"
|+Key to Grand Slam–ATP World Tour finals
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="e5d1cb" align="center"|<sup>†</sup>
| [[Grand Slam (tennis)|Grand Slam]] event
| (13–5)
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#ffffcc" align="center"|<sup>‡</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour Finals|ATP Tour final]] event
| (13–5)
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#dfe2e9" align="center"|<sup>↕</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour Masters 1000]] event
| (13–5)
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="#d0f0c0" align="center"|<sup>↑</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour 500 series]] event
| (13–5)
|-
| width="40px" align="center"|<sup>↓</sup>
| [[ATP World Tour 250 series]] event
| (13–5)
|-
| width="40px" bgcolor="silver" align="center"|<sup>§</sup>
| [[Tennis at the Summer Olympics|Summer Olympics]] event
| (13–5)
|}
======Summary tables======
If people want the information to be summarized, I think this is the best solution (borrowed from WP:Soccer, or WP:Football, I don't know the name of the project): Even so, it summarizes player result on a year to year basis. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 09:43, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" style="width:70px;"|Year
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|250 series
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|500 series
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|Masters 1000
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|Tour Finals
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|Grand Slam
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|Olympics
! colspan="2" style="width:80px;"|Total
|-
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
!width="40"|Finals
!width="40"|Titles
|-
|2004
|7 <!--League-->
|1 <!--League-->
|1 <!--Cup-->
|0 <!--Cup-->
|1 <!--Champions League-->
|0 <!--Champions League-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|9 <!-- Total-->
|1 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2005
|17 <!-- League -->
|6 <!-- League -->
|2 <!--Cup-->
|1 <!--Cup-->
|6 <!--Champions League-->
|1 <!--Champions League-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|25 <!-- Total-->
|8 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2006
|26 <!-- League -->
|14 <!-- League -->
|2 <!--Cup-->
|2 <!--Cup-->
|5 <!--Champions League-->
|1 <!--Champions League-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|0 <!--Supercup-->
|1 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|0 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|36 <!-- Total-->
|17 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2007
|28 <!-- League -->
|10 <!-- League -->
|3 <!--Cup-->
|0 <!--Cup-->
|9 <!--Champions League-->
|6 <!--Champions League-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|40 <!-- Total-->
|16 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2008
|31 <!-- League -->
|23 <!-- League -->
|8 <!--Cup-->
|6 <!--Cup-->
|12 <!--Champions League-->
|9 <!--Champions League-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|51 <!-- Total-->
|38 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2009
|35 <!-- League -->
|34 <!-- League -->
|3 <!--Cup-->
|1 <!--Cup-->
|11 <!--Champions League-->
|8 <!--Champions League-->
|1 <!--Supercup-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|1 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|0 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|2 <!--Club World Cup-->
|2 <!--Club World Cup-->
|53 <!-- Total-->
|47 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2010
|33 <!-- League -->
|31 <!-- League -->
|7 <!--Cup-->
|7 <!--Cup-->
|13 <!--Champions League-->
|12 <!--Champions League-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|3 <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|55 <!-- Total-->
|53 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2011
|37 <!-- League -->
|50 <!-- League -->
|7 <!--Cup-->
|3 <!--Cup-->
|11 <!--Champions League-->
|14 <!--Champions League-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|3 <!--Supercup-->
|1 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|1 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|2 <!--Club World Cup-->
|2 <!--Club World Cup-->
|60 <!-- Total-->
|73 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2012
|32 <!-- League -->
|46 <!-- League -->
|5 <!--Cup-->
|4 <!--Cup-->
|11 <!--Champions League-->
|8 <!--Champions League-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|50 <!-- Total-->
|60 <!-- Total-->
|-
|2013
|9 <!-- League -->
|8 <!-- League -->
|0 <!--Cup-->
|0 <!--Cup-->
|2 <!--Champions League-->
|4 <!--Champions League-->
|2 <!--Supercup-->
|0 <!--Supercup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
|colspan=2|— <!--Club World Cup-->
|13 <!-- Total-->
|12 <!-- Total-->
|-
!Total
!255 <!-- League -->
!223 <!-- League -->
!38 <!--Cup-->
!24 <!--Cup-->
!81 <!--Champions League-->
!63 <!--Champions League-->
!11 <!--Supercup-->
!10 <!--Supercup-->
!3 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
!1 <!--UEFA Super Cup-->
!4 <!--Club World Cup-->
!4 <!--Club World Cup-->
!392 <!-- Total-->
!325 <!-- Total-->
|}
::Having separate tables for the grand slams, masters and tour finals is warranted because they're the biggest tournaments in the sport, so a lot of readers will only be interested in looking at these results. Sure you could write how many major finals a player has been in by placing this in the header but what about the masters and tour finals and what about the score? What if a reader is just interested in seeing the scores in a player's grand slam finals? How on earth would you convey this information in the header or by summarising it into a table? Thats why the majors, masters 1000s and tour finals should have their own tables. Plus, the only person at the moment who seems to have a problem with this is you. Therefore, it looks like the general concencus is that they should be kept. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 12:12, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::The only thing they need to do then is to press the sort button; it get sorted grand slam, tour finals, masters etc....have you ever tried to actual use the sort button? Its like you guys don't listen.... I mean honest to god, why do you think they have table sortability in the first place? --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 14:00, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Thats not the point. The point is its just better to have a separate table for the majors, masters and tour finals. They're major tournaments and should have their own tables. Thats how its always been and how it always should be. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 14:44, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::Just because its stayed that way doesn't mean its good, its obviously an extremely bad solutions, Its a reason only WP:TENNIS duplicates table info, in the soccer they don't (and if we do it, they should do it, since its more prestigious tournamentes there than here), baseball doesn't, basketball doesn't, handball doesn't, ice hockey doesn't... This is just extremely bad policy making, and little rational thinking... Per [[Wikipedia:WikiProject]] "WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors and may not impose their preferences on articles." The guidelines sections which exists at this WikiProject should be '''deleted'''. Let's move this discussion to the talk page of the Roger Federer career statistics article... This discussion is, well, impossible to understand, really. For instance, when you write a book, you don't duplicate passages, or when you compile statistics, you don't suddenly compile the same statistics .. It doesn't work that way. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 15:03, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
======Thoughts on implementation======
Maybe all these things are issues too difficult to do at once. Let's at least do what we can mostly agree on, and in the coming days/weeks we may agree/get convinced to do others. In the guidelines lets add a sortable "category" using Grand Slam, Tour finals (which will works for both ATP and WCT tour finals), Masters, 500 series, 250 series and Olympics. Using one for each and every line as I'm not fond of the multi-row coverage. I would also agree with "Result" instead of "Outcome" and to unsort the No. field. That's it unless a minor adjustment to the key has to be made to show these changes. Use the exact same formatting we already use but simply add those changes. Nothing else. At least future article creators will see and (hopefully) adhere to a guideline that works for the blind and wikiMOS. Then we can sit here and continue to argue about flagicon, flagicon with a key link, flagathlete, extra charts, top 20 vs top 10, the fact that extra coding adds a lot more size and loading problems for lesser computers, etc. Can we do this? I'd add it this weekend to the men's guidelines but I don't want to rock the boat anymore than I have to. Maybe this is all we wind up doing after arguing for another few weeks, but at least it's something. Wolbo, TIAYN, Jay, Jared, etc...? [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 08:49, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
::I agree. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 08:58, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Sounds good. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 09:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
::::Fyunck, I had the exact same thought, let's move forward and implement what we largely agree on which is best represented by choice 5. Specifically (1) Outcome > Result, (2) No. unsorted, (3) Add Category field and (4) Tournament name, country to be used in the Championship field. Would be good to test the Category field before implementation; to prevent the field from taking up too much space we probably need to abbreviate some categories such as ''"Year-End Championships"'', ''"International Series Gold"'' and ''"ATP Championship Series, Single Week"''. With those updates out of the way it should be easier to focus on the remaining issues. I'm increasingly convinced we need to address the flagicon issue but think we need further discussion and exploration of alternatives. --[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 12:18, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
::See [[User:Trust Is All You Need/Tennis]], the new model is there (just fix it as you please guys....) --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 12:57, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Ok. I noticed one thing that we took for granted. In our original consensus chart there is No number column at all. For some reason I assumed our queries were whether it should be sortable or not, when the query first should have been "do we need it or not." Since we did not discuss that I did not include it. My thoughts unless convinced otherwise is that we don't need it at all. So here is the sandboxed version of the [[User:Fyunck(click)/sandbox/tenniscareerchart|new chart as it would appear in our guidelines]]. Outcome>Result, also Championship>Tournament, added a category, added Olympics to key, country name only. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:32, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::: You are correct that the article guidelines table doesn't have a "No." column but most articles on the better known players do and I'm strongly in favor of following this practice and adding the column to the guidelines table. It is a pertinent piece of information for our readers and I see no downside to having it as it takes up so little space.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 10:44, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
:I honestly can't understand why you oppose the "No." fields (which gives the readers a chance on how many tournaments he won - true they can count, but...), but you support duplicating material because its easier... --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 10:32, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
::Right above the table is the win loss record ---Singles: 113 (77 titles, 36 runners-up)---so it's duplication within the same section. It doesn't seem necessary to know which championship was number 26 and which runner-up was number 14. That seems like overkill to me especially since no one cares what the runner-up number is. But the main thing is it wasn't really discussed, only whether it would be sortable. But for the record I'll say this... I won't be the one holding it up. If Jay or Jarred agree with you two that it should be added to the guidelines (and hence to all career stats tables), I'll stand aside and put the completed table with number column in the guidelines. I'll still think it's a silly column though, but there are lots of things about wikipedia that are silly and I don't agree with. I learn live with it and save my energy for bigger things. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 22:44, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
:I agree with you Fyunck(click), remove the "No." column (it just takes extra space). --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 22:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
::LOL... ok so maybe this one needs to be added to the list of things we need to discuss in more detail, many of which with the right argument may sway someone. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 05:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I'm with Wolbo on this one. I vote in favour of keeping the "No." column for the same reasons that Wolbo mentioned. [[User:JayJ47|JayJ47]] ([[User talk:JayJ47|talk]]) 02:43, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

== Country -- input would be helpful ==

"US" or "{{USA}}"?    I used the second format, but have been reverted.  Discussion  is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria#Tennis_infoboxes here], and input there by those close to this would be helpful.  Thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:44, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

== Pre human-rights era notability ==

I was editing the [[American Tennis Association|ATA]] championships @ [[1931 in tennis]] and came upon a dilemma about [[WP:TENNIS/N]] and the segregated class of people of the times. As Notability goes:

#Are a member of the [[International Tennis Hall of Fame]], either in the ''contributor'' or ''player'' category
#Have competed in one of the international team competitions: [[Fed Cup]], [[Davis Cup]], [[Hopman Cup]] or [[World Team Cup]]
#Have competed in the main draw in one of the highest level professional tournaments:
#:*[[Grand slam (tennis)|Grand slam]] tournaments (the [[Australian Open]], the [[French Open]], [[Wimbledon Championships|Wimbledon]], or the [[US Open (tennis)|US Open]])
<s>#:*<small>Men: [[ATP World Tour]] tournaments (the [[ATP World Tour Finals]], [[ATP World Tour Masters 1000]], [[ATP World Tour 500]], or [[ATP World Tour 250]])</small>
#:*<small>Women: [[WTA Tour]] tournaments (the [[WTA Premier tournaments|WTA Premier]], the [[WTA International tournaments|WTA International]], or the [[WTA Tour Championships]])</small>
#<small>Have won at least one title in any of the [[ATP Challenger Tour|ATP Challenger]] tournaments</small>
#<small>Have won at least one title in any of the 2008–2012 [[ITF Women's Circuit|ITF Women's $35,000–$100,000+]] tournaments. From 1978–2007 the notability threshold shall be winning a $25,000 tournament based on the lowest payout for a men's challenger tournament in the same year.</small>
#<small>Hold a tennis record recognized by the [[International Tennis Federation]], [[Association of Tennis Professionals|ATP]] or [[Women's Tennis Association|WTA]]</small></s>

The criteria in small letters doesn't eligible for the era. Now what the problem is that the US African-American players couldn't enter the US Open nor could they compete in the Davis Cup. The could have travelled to Wimbledon though but the nomination process was through the USTLA, which wouldn't have nominated them at all. Same is true for any tennis event that is being considered notable by our standards. Same goes for e.g. jews for the pre WWII Germany (so it's not only a US-related issue). Only chance for them to become acknowledged by Wikipedia is the International Tennis Hall of Fame. Shouldn't we somewhat fix this biased racial discrimination here in 2013 and set a new bar, which would assure these players are not overlooked? [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 12:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:To start with a proposal/idea what about extending the guideline to the ATA Championships winners as well? [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 13:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::It's a good idea however I have some concerns. Wikipedia uses sources so we would need sourcing for these players which might be really hard to get other than a hall of fame. I didn't see a list of former champions on the ATA website. Also, when would we stop it? The ATA is not noteworthy today at all. So would we cover it from 1917 to 1950, after which blacks were allowed to participate and given automatic wild cards into the US Open? [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 18:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't sound as unreasnonable as it might at first glimpse. I would agree to such an "end-date". The Black Tennis Hall Museum Facebook page has some valuable info though (e.g. former champions like [https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=502138506395&id=225649521395 this one]). And what about the European jews situation? I was thinking on widening the Hall of Fame criterion to the Internation Jewish Hall of Fame to have something to begin with. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 12:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

== Should photos of grand slam trophy be added in info box of players? ==

I am wondering if it is possible to add photos of grand slam trophy on the info boxes of grand slam champions in singles like adding a svg photo of Olympics medal when a player wins a medal. The following are the location of the pictures. [[User:Ilovew24|Ilovew24]] ([[User talk:Ilovew24|talk]]) 15:14, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Daphne Akhurst Memorial Cup (Australian Open - Women's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:Coupe Suzanne Lenglen (French Open - Women's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:Venus Rosewater Dish (Wimbledon - Women's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:US Open Trophy (US Open - Women's single).svg|50px]]

[[File:Norman Brookes Challenge Cup (Australian Open - Gentlemen's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:Coupe des Mousquetaires (French Open - Gentlemen's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:Wimbledon Trophy (Wimbledon - Gentlemen's single).svg|50px]]
[[File:US Open Trophy (US Open - Gentlemen's single).svg|50px]]
{{OD}}
:My opinion is that it is absolut unnecessary and unencyclopedic. It would make the infobox more like a badge-collection than an actual information box. Image what would a page like Roger Federer's look like after that. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 17:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Agree with Lajbi, this would not be an improvement.--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 18:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Also agree with Lajbi... no improvement. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 21:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Agree with Lajbi.[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 22:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

==Gardnar Mulloy==
I realize this page is to discuss WikiProject Tennis topics but it's not every day we can welcome a tennis Hall of Fame centenarian. Five-time Grand Slam doubles winner [[Gardnar Mulloy]] turns 100 today. Wrote an interesting book on his career titled "As It Was" a few years back. Nice [http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/11/47/Happy-Birthday-Mulloy-100.aspx tribute] on the ATP site. Congrats!--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 23:17, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:Wow. Nice indeed. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 13:08, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

== [[French Pro Championship]] contradictions ==

There seems to be some confusion regarding the date and champion of the first French Pro within and outside the article. While it claims it all started in 1930 in the same sentence it dates back to even 1927:

"In 1930 the Association Française des Professeurs de Tennis (AFPT) held its first pro tournament, titled Championnat International de France Professionnel (French Pro Championships) ''June 18–22, 1930'', and is considered as a part of the professional grand slam from ''1927'' to 1967 till the advent of Open Era."

Furthermore the [[USTA]] [http://www.usta.com/Active/News/Pro-Tennis/311519_International_Tennis_Hall_of_Fame_To_Induct_Seven_Master_Players_in_July/ article] and [http://www.tennisfame.com/hall-of-famers/karel-ko%C5%BEeluh Tennis hall of fame] claim that [[Karel Kozeluh]] held the title undefeated from ''1925 to 1930''. Also it claims he was the champ again in 1932 while Wikipedia enlist Robert Ramillon as the winner. This statement is spread through various other pages such as [[Robert Ramillon]], [[French Pro Championship draws]], and [[Martin Plaa]]. It looks like we have a long-running mistake here. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 20:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
:Not really a mistake. Things are a bit jumbled when it comes to the pros way back in the 20s and 30s. The Roland Garros French Pro started in 1930 just as the article says. However The "Bristol Cup" was at times also called the "Professional Championships of France." There was overlap between these tournaments. Karel Kozeluh won the French Pro once... in 1930. He won the Bristol Cup in 1926, 1928-1932. So depending on what source you use Kozelah won two French Championships in 1930. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 00:06, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
::You're probably right we would need sources to verify this. These articles are highly in lack of references. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 11:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Irish Championships==
There is a proposal to add the Irish Championships as a separate tournament to the Infobox tennis biography template. This would be in addition to current tournaments such as the Grand Slams and the WHCC/WCCC. Proposal and discussion can be found at [[Template talk:Infobox tennis biography#Irish Championships]].--[[User:Wolbo|Wolbo]] ([[User talk:Wolbo|talk]]) 21:23, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

== Uncollapse tour navboxes ==

The current navbox at {{tl|2013 WTA Tour}} (similar for {{tl|2013 ATP World Tour}} and other years) uses collapsible groups although 4 of the 6 groups are a single line (3 of 5 for ATP), and the last 2 aren't that big. I'm constantly clicking show when using these navboxes. In articles they start collapsed so you have to click show just to get to the next show links. I suggest replacing the design by {{tl|2013 WTA Tour/sandbox}} which seems quite manageable in size with all events visible. The displayed name of tournament categories is shortened to make the left column more narrow. The two year-end championships are moved to a group with the same yellow background as in [[2013 WTA Tour#Schedule]] (ATP only has one year-end). [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:41, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:You don't have to do such a major revamp to fix that. Just take out the autocollapse parameter from the wikitable so it won't start as collapsed when you open an article. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 15:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
::I think the main template ''should'' be collapsed when you open an article. It's the collapsible subgroups I dislike. If they start out uncollapsed as in {{tl|2013 WTA Tour/sandbox2}} then very few readers will probably use any of the hide links once the main template is shown, and the tournament category headings make the template significantly larger than the suggested {{tl|2013 WTA Tour/sandbox}}. Another unfortunate detail is that the "WTA International tournaments" heading with white background looks like a part of the green "WTA Premier tournaments". [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 15:46, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

== Bot updates of ranking navboxes ==

I have posted a request at [[Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 58#Tennis ranking navboxes]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

== [[San Diego sports curse]] ==

has been [[WP:Articles for deletion/San Diego sports curse|nominated for deletion]]. Come on over and participate in the discussion.[[User:WilliamJE|...William]] 15:44, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

==[[:Template:Current Men's Doubles Team ATP Rankings]]==
I've nominated this for deletion, please comment here: [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 January 13]]. Other than a bot edit last year, the page has not been used since August 2012. [[User:Super Nintendo Chalmers|Super Nintendo Chalmers]] ([[User talk:Super Nintendo Chalmers|talk]]) 09:13, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

== Radmilo Armenulić ==
The article [[Radmilo Armenulić]] includes the following sentence: ''He was the coach of the province Niderzahsen''. I assume [[Niedersachsen]] is meant. But I have never heard of a German state tennis coach. [[:sr:Нидерзахсен]] is a redlink so I can't deduce anything from there. Any ideas? [[User:Agathoclea|Agathoclea]] ([[User talk:Agathoclea|talk]]) 10:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
:The bigger problem is that he is not notable by our standards. Same issue as [[Oscar Wegner]]. The article is an obvious self-promotion. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 11:13, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
::The recent [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Radmilo Armenulić|AFD]] decided otherwise. [[User:Agathoclea|Agathoclea]] ([[User talk:Agathoclea|talk]]) 11:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
:::None of us regular editors here voted. Nominator missed to inform the related Wikiprojects. Only the opening page has it in the new articles section and the wikipedia alerts as closed yesterday (which I don't check on a daily basis). Those who voted for it forget the fact that self-promotions should be deleted by default. If any objective, neutral editor feels to recreate it later nothing will stop him/her from doing so. But back to the problem, if you are unfamiliar with the subject and unsure about its content it's better to leave it as it is. Or label the article with some cleun-up wikitags. [[User:Lajbi|'''<span style="font-family:Lucida handwriting; color:#78866B;">Lajbi</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Lajbi|'''<span style="color:#C3B091;">Holla @ me</span>''']]<small> • [[User:Lajbi/Current project|'''<span style="color:#808000;">CP</span>''']]</small></sup> 12:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
::::I am familiar enaugh with the case of the the de-sysoped admin who thought that articles of notable subjects have to be deleted to punish the subject for selfpromotion rather than just making the article NPOV. [[User:Agathoclea|Agathoclea]] ([[User talk:Agathoclea|talk]]) 17:43, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
: Why isn't this on [[Talk:Radmilo Armenulić]]? There's hardly anything generic about this question... --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 16:40, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
::One would have assumed that WP:TENNIS would have the insight in how tennis is organised on state-level and point me in the right direction. [[User:Agathoclea|Agathoclea]] ([[User talk:Agathoclea|talk]]) 17:43, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
:::He was one of those "funky" keeps at the discussion. I did see it in time but looked at the points raised. Davis Cup players are automatically notable and here we had a coach for 17 years. I made the assumption that as coach he would have been quoted many times in major Yugoslav/Serbian news sources as one poster mentioned. Another also said that 17 years was a record for a Serbian Davis Cup coach. I saw that and thought this guy was probably generally notable outside of our standard tennis project rules so I let it go and said nothing. As far as State run, here in the USA we have the USTA (United States Tennis Association) as our governing body, while Germany uses the DTB (Deutscher Tennis Bund). How Germany breaks it further down into provinces I have no idea, especially during the time of East and West Germany (or soon thereafter) since his playing career was over around 1970. I don't read German but more info may be able to be found at the [http://www.dtb-tennis.de/ official DTB website]. I hope that helps a little Agathoclea. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 19:29, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
::::I have no idea how tennis is run at [[States of Germany|state]]-level in Germany, but Lower Saxony ({{langx|de|Niedersachsen}}) does have a local tennis federation ({{langx|de|Niedersächsischer Tennisverband}}) → http://www.ntv-tennis.de/ but there doesn't appear to be one ''single'' coach responsible for players at this level. It wouldn't make sense either, having this sort of (high-)responsibility at such a regional level. Such a statement as about the person in question has obviously been lost in translation. [[User:Jared Preston|Jared Preston]] ([[User talk:Jared Preston|talk]]) 19:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)