User talk:Norvikk: Difference between revisions
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== March 2019 == |
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<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px"> |
<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px">[[File:Stop x nuvola.svg|40px|left|alt=Stop icon]]<div style="margin-left:45px">You have been '''[[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Indefinite_blocks|indefinitely]]''' from editing for [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|abusing multiple accounts]]. Note that multiple accounts are [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Legitimate uses|allowed]], but '''not for ''[[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Inappropriate uses of alternative accounts|illegitimate]]'' reasons''', and any contributions made while evading blocks or bans [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G5|may be reverted or deleted]]. </div><div style="margin-left:45px">If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the [[WP:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]], then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx|" code. -->{{tlx|unblock|2=reason=''Your reason here ~~~~''}}. [[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 16:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)</div></div><!-- Template:uw-sockblock --> |
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{{u|Bbb23}} Good job. You didn't understand the situation, but you made a decision. Bravo. [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 16:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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When will it end? How many times should be told same? |
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And, I have revoked your talk page access. If you wish to appeal this block, first read [[Wikipedia:Appealing a block]], then visit the [[WP:UTRS|unblock requests system (UTRS)]]. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 10:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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{{u|Anna Frodesiak}} Anna, you saw my Russian text? [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANorvikk&type=revision&diff=889449477&oldid=889434516] I will copy a part of this text. Again. |
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:[[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] while I obviously don't agree with the language used here nor any of the other antics that had been exhibited by the user, I am also not sure if an indefinite block with revocation of talk page access is in the best interest of Wikipedia. This user has meticulously updated several hundred articles on a daily basis. We all know that Wikipedia is experiencing a severe downfall in the number of active daily users. I would say that the revocation of talk page access should have only matched the length of the block for things outside this talk page ie. until heads have cooled off. Increasing the block over things said on the talk page while passions were still running high, allowing the user to continue venting off his stress here to the point where he earns an indefinite block doesn't serve any purpose really. I may find many things that were said about me incomprehensible and more than rude, but in the end the most important thing is Wikipedia.--[[User:Twofortnights|Twofortnights]] ([[User talk:Twofortnights|talk]]) 16:41, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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Во время блокировки я сделал сотни правок. Все они были конструктивными и улучшили статьи. Я использовал несколько ip и аккаунт из городской библиотеки. Если это помеха, то я призываю не блокировать это, потому что это создаст помехи другим, кто использует эти диапазоны. Повторюсь: я не планирую больше редактировать, я не имею для этого свободного времени. Я не буду более создавать другие аккаунты, нарушать какие-либо правила. |
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Google translate <br> During the blocking I have done hundreds of edits. All of them were constructive and improved the articles. I used several ip's and an account from the city library. If it's a hindrance, then I urge you not to block it because it will interfere with others who use these ranges. Again, I don't plan to edit anymore, I don't have any free time for that. I will not create other accounts to break any of the rules. |
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I TOLD THE TRUTH. Anna believed me, I believed Anna. The ball was untangled. |
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We decided that. I explained everything. I made a promise I keep!!! What else is needed?!?!?! <br> |
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I broke promise? No.<br> |
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Why am I being blocked over and over again.<br> I left yesterday. I added a retired template. I apologized and made promises. Why don't you let me go?!?! [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 16:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:I read through your long rambling notes. I even translated the Russian. I found it hard to believe that anyone would unblock you when you admitted rampant block evasion. The fact that you claim those edits were constructive is absolutely immaterial. When you are blocked, you '''cannot''' edit. Putting that aside, you also recently created a named account, {{user2|NavalDirk}}, and evaded your block with that account as well. I didn't see any disclosure of that account in your comments (or now). And the fact that you "retired" that account just before you requested an unblock here doesn't help you. Let me remind you that in your extensive block log, you have already been blocked for socking. Finally, I don't see why you even care if you claim you are not going to edit here anymore because you don't have time (although you seem to have a lot of time on your hands frankly). Just so you know, this is a CheckUser block and can only be overturned by me or by another CU.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 17:20, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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::I admitted this fact. '''account from the city library''' Where here deception?[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 17:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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::What exit from this situation? What it is necessary to make that the account was unblocking and I could leave from here. What?!?[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 17:28, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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::You can change the block for month, half a year, year. After this time I will come here, I will clean the page, I will add a template. What should I do to get a divorce? [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 17:37, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:::You didn't ''name'' the account, but even if you had, it would have made no difference. You have talk page access at the moment. If you want to come back in six months and request an unblock, it will be considered, but it will be ''rejected'' if you have been evading your block in the interim.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 17:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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::::If it doesn't matter, why are you talking and asking about it? Do you have any questions that metter? Do you want to clarify something else? Because I don't want to hear it again: you didn't say it. <br> I have a dynamic ip. It changes every day. I use the Internet in the city library. Someone else can use these ip addresses. How can I prove it wasn't me?<br>I didn't plan on coming back here, but you won't let me go. I will invite you here on September 27, 2019. I hope you will remember me and this case, because I do not want to repeat everything again and again.--[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 18:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:::: «...''I found it hard to believe that anyone would unblock you when you admitted rampant block evasion''...» It's trust and mercy. These are amazing qualities for a judge.[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 18:33, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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{{Reply to|Bbb23}} I ask for clarification. I was locked 4 months ago and can only apply for an unlock in September. But I've read about the possibility of doing this before - Standard offer with Variations. Can my contribution for Wiki Commons be used to reduce the blocking time? [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Norvikk] --[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 15:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC) <br> |
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:'''I concur with the analysis and sentiment expressed''' by [[User:Twofortnights]]. |
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CheckUser {{u|Bbb23}} is apparently too busy to answer. Let me ask others: Can I ask about early account unlock in this situation? {{u|NinjaRobotPirate}} thanks. [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 18:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC) |
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:I prophesy that it may be a long and unpleasant task to attempt to channel and modify the behaviour of [[User:Norvikk]] (and ultimately prove unsuccesful); however, I do believe the attempt to be worthwhile. |
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:I would propose a number of safeguards, though: |
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:1) Each time he reverts anything other than obvious vandalism, he {{xt|must use a helpful and non-offensive edit summary}}. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run concurrently rather than consecutively in the event of multiple infringements'') |
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:2) He may {{xt|not blank this talk page}}. Archiving after a minimum period of 14 days allowed. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements'') |
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:3) He may {{xt|not make any reversions whatsoever on this talk page}}. Strike through is allowed. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements'') --[[User:BushelCandle|BushelCandle]] ([[User talk:BushelCandle|talk]]) 16:58, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:(Later) now I've had time to think about this further, there is a fourth condition I'd like to propose to try and forestall the possibility of two problematic behaviours that occurred in the past popping up again. The two past problematic behaviours were |
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:a) mass reverts to a large number of articles in less than an hour for reasons only of vindictiveness towards a particular editor |
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:b) efforts to circumvent normal edit warring rules by employing additional alternative accounts (or anonymous editing). {In this regard, there may be an increased temptation for him to circumvent any of the special individual rules above, should my proposals meet favour, by tag-teaming and/or sock or meat puppetry.} |
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:Consequently: |
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:4) {{xt|In any 24 hour period, he may not revert the same [[Special:ListUsers/extendedconfirmed|Extended Confirmed User]] more than 3 times}}. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements'') --[[User:BushelCandle|BushelCandle]] ([[User talk:BushelCandle|talk]]) 18:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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*I've been keeping an eye on this since it happened and to be honest I support the block, There's clearly a language barrier here and IMHO there's also a case of NOTHERE too, But the final nail for me was [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Norvikk&diff=851745088&oldid=851744565 this] which is wholly inappropriate, |
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:They've been told why they were blocked and instead of them shutting up and accepting it they've continued their battleground mentality and have given the impression them being blocked is like being a prisoner in a war camp ..... |
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:IMHO the indef was justified here but that being said indef doesn't mean forever, They have UTRS so it's not the end of the world for them. –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 17:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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::I appreciate your uninvolved opinion, Dave, but you may not realise just how many technical and excellent edits Norvikk has made (when he's calm and rational). |
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::Also, you may want to slightly change the diff you used since the one just above is actually a diff showing slightly improved behaviour by Norvikk (since that edit actually ''removed'' an offensive adverb) (wan smile). [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Norvikk&diff=prev&oldid=851744565 This] may be the diff you meant ... --[[User:BushelCandle|BushelCandle]] ([[User talk:BushelCandle|talk]]) 18:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Hi BushelCandle, I mean this in the nicest possible way .... but having excellent edits isn't a free pass to behave like they have over the last few days, Sure we all reach the end of our tether and sure most of us either control or go elsewhere .... but unfortunately with this editor instead of them leaving they've just dug themselves a deeper hole as time's gone on, |
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:::I would hardly call them removing the word "fucking" as "slightly improved behaviour" - That's no different to me smashing someones door in to rob their house but then fix their door before I leave ..... Point is I robbed someones house (I haven't!!) and Norvikk added the picture under a searing title, |
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:::I still feel an indef block is all but justified here sorry. –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 18:48, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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::::I agree with both {{u|Anna Frodesiak}}'s block and {{u|Davey2010}}'s endorsement of it I'm afraid. It wasn't the word "fucking" that was fucking inappropriate, it was comparing a well-meaning editor, who was going to (possibly unnecessary!) lengths to try and help, to fucking Himmler or one of his admirers. No amount of good editing scrubs that slate clean—at least, not immediately. ''That'' was what was "fucking" inappropriate methinks.{{pb}}I recommend the [[WP:SO|standard offer]]. [[User:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:dark blue">'''—SerialNumber54129'''</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:red">''' paranoia /'''</span>]][[User talk:Serial Number 54129|'''cheap sh*t room''']]</sup> 18:56, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::I think the problem here is that the user wasn't ignored either. If it was obvious that he reached the end of his tether then why continue to engage and allow for things to reach [[Reductio ad Hitlerum]]? I would say a more sensible thing would have been to restrict talk page access for the duration of the block until everyone cooled off. Also I can't speak for others but for me personally I would never put personal offence above Wikipedia. If someone compared me to Himler during a heated debate but had great contribution I would probably get over it, but that's just me. I was at the receiving end of one Chinese user who used to write such nasty stuff at me that admins had to remove it from the logs more than once. On each occasion the block was given but never an indefinite one, so he is still around and his contribution is practically none.--[[User:Twofortnights|Twofortnights]] ([[User talk:Twofortnights|talk]]) 19:45, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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::::*I'd support a standard offer as per {{u|Serial Number 54129}} just providing they don't repeat this all again. –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 19:52, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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{{u|Anna Frodesiak}} Yesterday I came cap in hand. I wanted to close this case. It was our conflict, it was resolved, we shook hands. I wrote the truth. I did not deceive you and did not use your kindness in the mercenary purposes. You believed me, I believed you. You made the decision, but your powers were not enough for this purpose. They think that I am a vandal and the villain. It is a lie. Thanks for your trust.[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 18:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC) |
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You make good points. However, tolerating an abusive person in the workplace because they make a lot of money for the company is never okay. We would not permit a newcomer to attack others this way. His productivity was the reason we allowed it for so long. |
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I don't understand what's going on here or why I was pinged. If you want to be unblocked, please use {{tl|unblock}}. I would suggest including 50–100 words in the {{var|1=reason=}} field that concisely explain what happened, why you were blocked, and why it's no longer necessary. By the way, it's probably best to avoid doing a mass-ping on your talk page when you're blocked. [[User:NinjaRobotPirate|NinjaRobotPirate]] ([[User talk:NinjaRobotPirate|talk]]) 21:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC) |
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Any admin should feel free to reverse or modify my actions. Changing the block from indefinite to another time would be fine with me. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 20:08, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:Thanks. That's what I needed.[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 22:36, 20 July 2019 (UTC) |
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{{unblock reviewed | 1=I am asking to consider removing the lock. <br> On the standard offer page, I read about the possibility to request an unlock earlier than six months if there is a useful contribution to other WMF projects. I hope my contribution for WikiCommons is such. [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Norvikk] <br> I was blocked by [[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] 4 months ago because I created and used a puppet account. I used the account for normal editing. I didn't use it for vandalism or destruction. The contribution was useful and relevant. <br> *Without sockpuppetry or block evasion; i.e. with no edit, using any account or anonymously (IP) [[File:Yes check.svg|18px|link=|alt=]] '''Done''' *I promise to avoid the behavior that led to the block/ban. [[File:Yes check.svg|18px|link=|alt=]] '''Done''' I'm ready to move on. Thanks [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 23:12, 20 July 2019 (UTC) | decline = <!-- stale block -->Procedural decline only. This unblock request has been open for more than two weeks but has not proven sufficiently convincing for any reviewing administrator to take action. You are welcome to request a new block review if you substantially reword your request.<!-- Template:decline stale--> [[User:Yamla|Yamla]] ([[User talk:Yamla|talk]]) 13:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)}} |
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==Notice of noticeboard discussion== |
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[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:AN-notice-->--[[User:Ixfd64|Ixfd64]] ([[User talk:Ixfd64|talk]]) 17:36, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:Thank you![[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 19:29, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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==Unblock discussion== |
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{{u|Ymblanter}} Добрый вечер, я напишу вам по-русски. Вы правы, я не говорю на английском, я использую онлайн-переводчик. Я осознаю, что я выгляжу глупее, когда я использую механический английский. Поэтому я не могу донести свои мысли, смысл искажается переводчиком. Побудьте, пожалуйста, моим переводчиком с английского на русский, с русского менталитета на западный. <br> |
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Even if we were to consider a standard offer, it's only been four months. Looking at the block log, which deals with disruption, and personal attacks, I would not be inclined to the standard offer. Please address the issues that led to your many blocks. It's seems to me you have had more than a "second chance". It would take much to persuade me even if the six month minimum had been meant. [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 04:34, 21 July 2019 (UTC) |
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Я много раз пытался донести свою точку зрения, но они не понимаю меня или делают вид. <br> |
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:I asked about the possibility to file a petition earlier. I heard no objection. The standard proposal allows for this option. No violations. <br> Maybe you weren't paying attention. The problems that led to the block were ustraneny 4 months ago. We solved all the issues and I was unlocked. But during this period I used a puppet account. This is the reason for the current blockage. <br> Have you decided to go back to the past block of emotional behavior? It's closed. You think I should pay the fine again and again. If you pay a Parking fine, do you pay it every year or once? One of the foundations of jurisprudence: no one can be convicted twice for one crime. <br> “It would take much to persuade me”. I have to write a hundred times, "I won't dodge the block anymore."? I'm sorry, I don't know what you want me to do. This application will be submitted unchanged in 6 months, a year. I don't know what else to add. Causes long been eliminated. I asked about the possibility to unlock early. <br> I have a different opinion, but in any case, thank you for your time. --[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 09:04, 21 July 2019 (UTC) |
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Поехали?) Я около 5 лет редактирую статьи на визовых тематику. Я создавал, поддерживал актуальную информацию и вносил креативные идеи о изменениях и улучшениях, какие-то идеи были воплощены, какие-то нет. Были созданы целые разделы, написаны исторические факты, изменены карты. Это то, что мне нравится - карты, таблицы, история. Я реализовался тут. <br> |
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Эти статьи, их около 400, иногда подвергаются нападению, как и другие, я полагаю. Это легко отменялось и возвращался прежний вид статьи. В один прекрасный день, приходит некий юзер, и без обсуждения на talkpage начинает вносить свои правки. Я согласен, это не вандализм в его проявлении, правки просто являются его видением, он считал что так лучше, а мнение всех других спрашивать не надо. Например, были изменены размеры карт, наверное, на его компьютере это смотрелось лучше, но зато на планшетах, мониторах с другим разрешением это выглядело плохо. Размер карт сейчас это компромисс, который был достигнут между планшетом и стационарным компьютером. Эти правки были отменены. И тут начинаются чудеса. Юзер начинает не просить, а требовать объяснений, разъяснений, продавливать свою точку зрения, абсолютная уверенностей в своей правоте. А когда его правки были отменены, обиделся и позвал других англ. пользователей для поддержки. Я должен был молча смотреть как рушится то, что я и другие пользователи создавали годами?! Да, я вспылил, эмоции взяли вверх над разумом. А какая реакция должна быть? <br> |
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Есть такое понятие - «не подходите к крокодилу». Не важно с какими намерениями вы к нему подошли, не важно любите вы его или ненавидите, хотите его ударить или погладить - крокодил есть крокодил: ему все равно, он укусит. <br> |
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Я был в состоянии деструктивных эмоций. Какую реакцию кто-то ожидает от горячих голов? Кто-то до сих пор обижен!? Говорю, извините. Но я все равно не могу согласится, с тем, что я - вандал. <br> |
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Я получил замечания, я огрызался в ответ, но никто не сделал замечания другим, когда меня поддевали, то все молчали. Это тоже не остужает. «Признай вину, а потом будем разбираться кто виноват.» Демократия, однако. <br> |
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Меня заблокировали трижды<br> За деструктивное поведение - я объяснился, наконец. За создание марионеток. Тут мое упущение, я не знал, что это запрещено и спокойно пользовался этим несколько лет без каких-либо проблем. И третье. Я думаю, что это произошло от непонимания менталитета. Я воспитывался в советской идеологии и советском взгляде на историю. Есть несколько фотографий, которые иллюстрируют эмоции или человеческие качества того времени. Это известная фотография. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Himmler_besichtigt_die_Gefangenenlager_in_Russland._Heinrich_Himmler_inspects_a_prisoner_of_war_camp_in_Russia,_circa..._-_NARA_-_540164.jpg] На ней изображён узник концлагеря, который смотрит на нациста. Для меня и для советской идеологии это символизирует бесстрашие, прямой взгляд, несгибаемость характера. Для меня символична левая часть снимка, но администраторы увидели здесь прославление фашизма! и тут у Анны, судьи, эмоции берут вверх над разумом, и она блокирует меня навечно. Я пониманию ее, я тоже не поддерживаю фашизм. Что сказать, молодец. Это чистое недопонимание. <br> |
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Что сейчас. Я хочу, чтобы мой аккаунт был разблокирован, я не планирую возвращаться к ежедневному редактированию. Мне нужно закрыть этот вопрос из прошлого и очистить эту ситуацию. Я не считаю себя вандалом и негодяем. Случилось то, что случилось. Надо искать выход из ситуации, а не ворошить это. Во время блокировки я сделал сотни правок. Все они были конструктивными и улучшили статьи. Я использовал несколько ip и аккаунт из городской библиотеки. Если это помеха, то я призываю не блокировать это, потому что это создаст помехи другим, кто использует эти диапазоны. Повторюсь: я не планирую больше редактировать, я не имею для этого свободного времени. Я не буду более создавать другие аккаунты, нарушать какие-либо правила. Я реализовался тут, пришло время двигаться дальше. Много букв, но зато всё. Спасибо. [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 19:28, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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If the only problem is time. I propose to replace an infinite block to a time block.[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 15:09, 21 July 2019 (UTC) |
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{{u|Ymblanter}} Дайте мне знать, если вы не хотите в этом учавствовать. Потому что я подумал, что вы хотите помочь закрыть это дело. Вы единственный русскоговорящий администратор в английской википедии, поэтому написал; это ни к чему вас не обязывает.--[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 09:20, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:On the face of it a time block would seem reasonable - but only if the behavioural problems of edit warring and refusal to engage civilly and in a collegiate spirit with other editors are resolved (for example, Norvikk has a habit of promptly deleting/censoring any comment that he disagrees with/shows him in a bad light). |
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<br /><br /> |
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I don't speak Russian, but I believe the comments above make clear that part of the difficulties were occasioned by Norvik not being fluent in English and using machine translation. I also believe and sympathise with his explanations. |
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:For what it's worth, I agree with Norvikk's own assessment that he is neither "a vandal" nor a "villain" but while he edit wars without dialogue his behaviour remains problematic for our project. --[[User:BushelCandle|BushelCandle]] ([[User talk:BushelCandle|talk]]) 14:52, 22 July 2019 (UTC) |
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I would support un-blocking Norvik - '''but with safeguards''' so that other editors don't have to waste too much of their time because of Norvik's self-confessed faults/handicaps: |
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:: ''I use Google translate to communicate. Electronic translator distorts thoughts. Grammatical and punctuation errors are also possible. Sorry about that.'' |
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:: The war ended over a year ago. If you're still on the battlefield after all this time, it's sad. I do not lead any wars, I live a quiet life. If you want to meet with me, I live in the Central district of Moscow, Russia. There are many attractions here and we can walk from Red Square to [[Zaryadye Park]], for example. A 15-minute walk will be enough. Let me know if you will be in Moscow. |
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:1) Each time he reverts anything other than obvious vandalism, he {{xt|must use a helpful and non-offensive edit summary}}. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run concurrently rather than consecutively in the event of multiple infringements''). Certainly this will be an extra burden for him with his limited English, but it may slow him down and make him think about hitting the revert button rather than cogitating on whether undoing a previous editor's work is really the best course of action. |
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:2) He may {{xt|not blank this talk page}}. Archiving after a minimum period of 14 days allowed. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements''). This is to encourage education and dialogue - if he had taken the time to (machine) translate and ponder some of the comments left on this page prviously, he might not have ended up in this current position. |
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:3) He may {{xt|not make any reversions whatsoever on this talk page}}. Strike through is allowed. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements'') |
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The fourth condition I'd like to maintain is to try and forestall the possibility of two problematic behaviours that occurred in the past occurring again. The two past problematic behaviours were |
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:a) mass reverts to a large number of articles in less than an hour for reasons only of vindictiveness towards a particular editor |
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:b) efforts to circumvent normal edit warring rules by employing additional alternative accounts (or anonymous editing). {In this regard, there may be an increased temptation for him to circumvent any of the special individual rules above, should my proposals meet favour, by tag-teaming and/or sock or meat puppetry. However, if I have understood what Norvik wrote above, he now understands that he should not sock or meat puppet) |
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Consequently: |
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:4) {{xt|In any 24 hour period, he may not revert the same [[Special:ListUsers/extendedconfirmed|Extended Confirmed User]] more than 3 times}}. (''Penalty 24 hours block for each infringement - to run consecutively rather than concurrently in the event of multiple infringements'') |
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::Any other interaction is excluded. Because I don't plan on being an everyday-editor anymore or doing a mass update. I was planning to focus on the Russian articles, because the information in Wikipedia appears after a significant period of time or does not appear at all. I can edit visa articles using Russian sources of information. No one else is doing it. That's why I can be useful. I could update this anonymously, but don't see the point in it, I did it during the previous block. and as told by {{u|Bbb23}} “The fact that you claim those edits were constructive is absolutely immaterial”. I thought Wikipedia's interests were higher than following the rules. But it turned out that there can be no exceptions. If you are blocked, you can only watch as “your” articles slowly decay (current information does not appear, erroneous changes are made). Rules are more important. I've taken note of that. |
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I still believe that it may be a long and unpleasant task to attempt to channel and modify the behaviour of [[User:Norvikk]] (and ultimately may prove unsuccessful); however, I still do believe the attempt to be worthwhile since I continue to believe that an indefinite block of Norvik is not in the best interest of Wikipedia. |
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::I didn't use a puppet account for vandalism, commercial editing, destructive editing. How am I supposed to prove that I won't do it in the future if I didn't do it in the past?? I admitted a mistake in breaking the rules, I made promises to follow the rules from now on. My contribution to commons is proof of that. I did everything I could. [[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 18:30, 23 July 2019 (UTC) |
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==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens]]== |
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[[Image:Information icon4.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]] |
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{{Quote box|quote=<p>If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].</p><p>You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.</p>|width=20%|align=right}} |
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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on [[:Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#A1|section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see [[Wikipedia:Stub#Essential information about stubs|Wikipedia:Stub]] for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on [[Wikipedia:Notability|notable]] subjects and should provide references to [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verify]] their content. |
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If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Visa+requirements+for+Somaliland+citizens|deleting administrator}}, or if you have already done so, you can place a request [[WP:RFUD|here]]. <!-- Template:Db-nocontext-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:AINH|AINH]] ([[User talk:AINH|talk]]) 15:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC) |
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==talk page access== |
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== Nomination of [[:Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens]] for deletion == |
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A note at [[WP:AN]] says you want to a request an unblock. I've restored your access to your talk page so you can make a proper unblock request here. See [[WP:GAB]] first, though. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 17:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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<div class="afd-notice"> |
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:Thank you.--[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 19:29, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]]. |
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The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. |
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==Comment from Anna Frodesiak== |
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I will leave it to others to decide. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 23:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Anna Frodesiak}} Why? Be with me. You tried, sentenced, and executed. But this is not the end. This tangle must be untangled. Let's close this case and shake hands.--[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 10:07, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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::Of course. Let's shake. I'm sorry if I overreacted. I may have. I do hope you and Wikipedia are reunited and you have many happy years here. Please, please, please be kind and gentle with others. And if others are not kind and gentle with you, I will stick up for you and be on your side. It is most important that you are not chased away and that others are not chased away either. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 10:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. |
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:::While Google it translate is not perfect, it really does a decent job on the above russian text. [[Cheburashka#"Drutten_och_Gena",_Sweden|Try to be a nice crocodile]]! [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 11:06, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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<!-- Template:Afd notice --></div> [[User:AINH|AINH]] ([[User talk:AINH|talk]]) 05:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:::{{u|Anna Frodesiak}} It’s great! Those were dark times for me. I apologize for my rude thoughts and words. If you have any questions or want clarification to clarify the situation, let me know. |
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:::I don't plan on going back to daily editing, I don't have time for that anymore. I want to close this book, it's time to move on. This situation weighs on me. I want to leave with a positive, so it's important to me. I wrote it in English, I wrote it in Russian: apologized and promised not to break the rules of Wikipedia. I don't understand what else I can do to unlock my account. Could you help me please?[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 11:18, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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You are now unblocked. Welcome back. You seem like a very nice person who just got very upset. Please be patient with others. If there is anything you ever need or have any questions, please ask. Thank you, and happy editing. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 11:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:Thank you very much!--[[User:Norvikk|Norvikk]] ([[User talk:Norvikk#top|talk]]) 12:03, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
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{{Smiley3|8}}{{Smiley3|8}}{{Smiley3|8}} [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 11:57, 26 March 2019 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 05:01, 28 February 2021
March 2019
[edit]{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
. Bbb23 (talk) 16:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)Bbb23 Good job. You didn't understand the situation, but you made a decision. Bravo. Norvikk (talk) 16:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
When will it end? How many times should be told same?
Anna Frodesiak Anna, you saw my Russian text? [1] I will copy a part of this text. Again.
Во время блокировки я сделал сотни правок. Все они были конструктивными и улучшили статьи. Я использовал несколько ip и аккаунт из городской библиотеки. Если это помеха, то я призываю не блокировать это, потому что это создаст помехи другим, кто использует эти диапазоны. Повторюсь: я не планирую больше редактировать, я не имею для этого свободного времени. Я не буду более создавать другие аккаунты, нарушать какие-либо правила.
Google translate
During the blocking I have done hundreds of edits. All of them were constructive and improved the articles. I used several ip's and an account from the city library. If it's a hindrance, then I urge you not to block it because it will interfere with others who use these ranges. Again, I don't plan to edit anymore, I don't have any free time for that. I will not create other accounts to break any of the rules.
I TOLD THE TRUTH. Anna believed me, I believed Anna. The ball was untangled.
We decided that. I explained everything. I made a promise I keep!!! What else is needed?!?!?!
I broke promise? No.
Why am I being blocked over and over again.
I left yesterday. I added a retired template. I apologized and made promises. Why don't you let me go?!?! Norvikk (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- I read through your long rambling notes. I even translated the Russian. I found it hard to believe that anyone would unblock you when you admitted rampant block evasion. The fact that you claim those edits were constructive is absolutely immaterial. When you are blocked, you cannot edit. Putting that aside, you also recently created a named account, NavalDirk (talk · contribs · count), and evaded your block with that account as well. I didn't see any disclosure of that account in your comments (or now). And the fact that you "retired" that account just before you requested an unblock here doesn't help you. Let me remind you that in your extensive block log, you have already been blocked for socking. Finally, I don't see why you even care if you claim you are not going to edit here anymore because you don't have time (although you seem to have a lot of time on your hands frankly). Just so you know, this is a CheckUser block and can only be overturned by me or by another CU.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:20, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- I admitted this fact. account from the city library Where here deception?Norvikk (talk) 17:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- What exit from this situation? What it is necessary to make that the account was unblocking and I could leave from here. What?!?Norvikk (talk) 17:28, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- You can change the block for month, half a year, year. After this time I will come here, I will clean the page, I will add a template. What should I do to get a divorce? Norvikk (talk) 17:37, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- You didn't name the account, but even if you had, it would have made no difference. You have talk page access at the moment. If you want to come back in six months and request an unblock, it will be considered, but it will be rejected if you have been evading your block in the interim.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- If it doesn't matter, why are you talking and asking about it? Do you have any questions that metter? Do you want to clarify something else? Because I don't want to hear it again: you didn't say it.
I have a dynamic ip. It changes every day. I use the Internet in the city library. Someone else can use these ip addresses. How can I prove it wasn't me?
I didn't plan on coming back here, but you won't let me go. I will invite you here on September 27, 2019. I hope you will remember me and this case, because I do not want to repeat everything again and again.--Norvikk (talk) 18:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC) - «...I found it hard to believe that anyone would unblock you when you admitted rampant block evasion...» It's trust and mercy. These are amazing qualities for a judge.Norvikk (talk) 18:33, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- If it doesn't matter, why are you talking and asking about it? Do you have any questions that metter? Do you want to clarify something else? Because I don't want to hear it again: you didn't say it.
- You didn't name the account, but even if you had, it would have made no difference. You have talk page access at the moment. If you want to come back in six months and request an unblock, it will be considered, but it will be rejected if you have been evading your block in the interim.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
@Bbb23: I ask for clarification. I was locked 4 months ago and can only apply for an unlock in September. But I've read about the possibility of doing this before - Standard offer with Variations. Can my contribution for Wiki Commons be used to reduce the blocking time? [2] --Norvikk (talk) 15:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
CheckUser Bbb23 is apparently too busy to answer. Let me ask others: Can I ask about early account unlock in this situation? NinjaRobotPirate thanks. Norvikk (talk) 18:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Anna Frodesiak Yesterday I came cap in hand. I wanted to close this case. It was our conflict, it was resolved, we shook hands. I wrote the truth. I did not deceive you and did not use your kindness in the mercenary purposes. You believed me, I believed you. You made the decision, but your powers were not enough for this purpose. They think that I am a vandal and the villain. It is a lie. Thanks for your trust.Norvikk (talk) 18:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand what's going on here or why I was pinged. If you want to be unblocked, please use {{unblock}}. I would suggest including 50–100 words in the reason= field that concisely explain what happened, why you were blocked, and why it's no longer necessary. By the way, it's probably best to avoid doing a mass-ping on your talk page when you're blocked. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. That's what I needed.Norvikk (talk) 22:36, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Norvikk (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I am asking to consider removing the lock.
On the standard offer page, I read about the possibility to request an unlock earlier than six months if there is a useful contribution to other WMF projects. I hope my contribution for WikiCommons is such. [3]
I was blocked by Bbb23 4 months ago because I created and used a puppet account. I used the account for normal editing. I didn't use it for vandalism or destruction. The contribution was useful and relevant.
*Without sockpuppetry or block evasion; i.e. with no edit, using any account or anonymously (IP) Done *I promise to avoid the behavior that led to the block/ban. Done I'm ready to move on. Thanks Norvikk (talk) 23:12, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Procedural decline only. This unblock request has been open for more than two weeks but has not proven sufficiently convincing for any reviewing administrator to take action. You are welcome to request a new block review if you substantially reword your request. Yamla (talk) 13:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Unblock discussion
[edit]Even if we were to consider a standard offer, it's only been four months. Looking at the block log, which deals with disruption, and personal attacks, I would not be inclined to the standard offer. Please address the issues that led to your many blocks. It's seems to me you have had more than a "second chance". It would take much to persuade me even if the six month minimum had been meant. Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:34, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
- I asked about the possibility to file a petition earlier. I heard no objection. The standard proposal allows for this option. No violations.
Maybe you weren't paying attention. The problems that led to the block were ustraneny 4 months ago. We solved all the issues and I was unlocked. But during this period I used a puppet account. This is the reason for the current blockage.
Have you decided to go back to the past block of emotional behavior? It's closed. You think I should pay the fine again and again. If you pay a Parking fine, do you pay it every year or once? One of the foundations of jurisprudence: no one can be convicted twice for one crime.
“It would take much to persuade me”. I have to write a hundred times, "I won't dodge the block anymore."? I'm sorry, I don't know what you want me to do. This application will be submitted unchanged in 6 months, a year. I don't know what else to add. Causes long been eliminated. I asked about the possibility to unlock early.
I have a different opinion, but in any case, thank you for your time. --Norvikk (talk) 09:04, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
If the only problem is time. I propose to replace an infinite block to a time block.Norvikk (talk) 15:09, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
- On the face of it a time block would seem reasonable - but only if the behavioural problems of edit warring and refusal to engage civilly and in a collegiate spirit with other editors are resolved (for example, Norvikk has a habit of promptly deleting/censoring any comment that he disagrees with/shows him in a bad light).
- For what it's worth, I agree with Norvikk's own assessment that he is neither "a vandal" nor a "villain" but while he edit wars without dialogue his behaviour remains problematic for our project. --BushelCandle (talk) 14:52, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
- I use Google translate to communicate. Electronic translator distorts thoughts. Grammatical and punctuation errors are also possible. Sorry about that.
- The war ended over a year ago. If you're still on the battlefield after all this time, it's sad. I do not lead any wars, I live a quiet life. If you want to meet with me, I live in the Central district of Moscow, Russia. There are many attractions here and we can walk from Red Square to Zaryadye Park, for example. A 15-minute walk will be enough. Let me know if you will be in Moscow.
- Any other interaction is excluded. Because I don't plan on being an everyday-editor anymore or doing a mass update. I was planning to focus on the Russian articles, because the information in Wikipedia appears after a significant period of time or does not appear at all. I can edit visa articles using Russian sources of information. No one else is doing it. That's why I can be useful. I could update this anonymously, but don't see the point in it, I did it during the previous block. and as told by Bbb23 “The fact that you claim those edits were constructive is absolutely immaterial”. I thought Wikipedia's interests were higher than following the rules. But it turned out that there can be no exceptions. If you are blocked, you can only watch as “your” articles slowly decay (current information does not appear, erroneous changes are made). Rules are more important. I've taken note of that.
- I didn't use a puppet account for vandalism, commercial editing, destructive editing. How am I supposed to prove that I won't do it in the future if I didn't do it in the past?? I admitted a mistake in breaking the rules, I made promises to follow the rules from now on. My contribution to commons is proof of that. I did everything I could. Norvikk (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens
[edit]If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. AINH (talk) 15:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Nomination of Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens for deletion
[edit]The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Visa requirements for Somaliland citizens until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.