Jump to content

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SMS Goeben/archive1: Difference between revisions

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Content deleted Content added
SMS Goeben: made it so
MalnadachBot (talk | contribs)
m Fixed Lint errors in signatures. (Task 2)
 
(15 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
<!--FAtop--><div class="boilerplate metadata afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #E6F2FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion of a [[Wikipedia:featured article candidates|featured article nomination]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in [[Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates]]. No further edits should be made to this page.''

The article was '''promoted''' by [[User:SandyGeorgia|SandyGeorgia]] 18:47, 30 September 2010 [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=387961580].
----

===[[SMS Goeben]]===
===[[SMS Goeben]]===


Line 9: Line 15:
The only German battlecruiser to serve outside the North/Baltic Seas, ''Goeben'' served in the Mediterranean before the start of World War I and fled to Turkey at the onset of hostilities. Her presence played a part in bringing the Ottomans into the war on the side of Germany and stymied Allied attempts to seize Constantinople. The ship was formally transferred to the Turkish Navy after the end of the war and served on active duty until 1950, and then in reserve into the early 70s, after which she was broken up for scrap. I wrote this article mostly in January and February, after which it passed GA and A-class reviews. The portion on the ship's wartime service has since been overhauled somewhat by Sturmvogel 66, who has access to a couple of specialized sources. I feel the article is of pretty high quality, and with the help of reviewers, we can ensure this article meets the FA standards. Thanks in advance to all those who take the time to review this article. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 14:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC) and [[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 19:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
The only German battlecruiser to serve outside the North/Baltic Seas, ''Goeben'' served in the Mediterranean before the start of World War I and fled to Turkey at the onset of hostilities. Her presence played a part in bringing the Ottomans into the war on the side of Germany and stymied Allied attempts to seize Constantinople. The ship was formally transferred to the Turkish Navy after the end of the war and served on active duty until 1950, and then in reserve into the early 70s, after which she was broken up for scrap. I wrote this article mostly in January and February, after which it passed GA and A-class reviews. The portion on the ship's wartime service has since been overhauled somewhat by Sturmvogel 66, who has access to a couple of specialized sources. I feel the article is of pretty high quality, and with the help of reviewers, we can ensure this article meets the FA standards. Thanks in advance to all those who take the time to review this article. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 14:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC) and [[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 19:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


*'''image review''' All the images are suitably licensed, either Bundesarkiv or US gov <font face="chiller"><font color="red"><b>[[User:Jimfbleak|Jimfbleak]] - </b></font></font><font face="arial"><font color="green">[[User talk:Jimfbleak| talk to me?]]</font></font> 15:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
*'''image review''' All the images are suitably licensed, either Bundesarkiv or US gov <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 15:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)


*'''Quick comment''' - the ISBN for Langensiepen is probably wrong, they're supposed to be either 10 or 13 digits long (not 11!)
*'''Quick comment''' - the ISBN for Langensiepen is probably wrong, they're supposed to be either 10 or 13 digits long (not 11!)
Line 31: Line 37:
***Thanks, I linked to the article ([[Liman (landform)]]). [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 21:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
***Thanks, I linked to the article ([[Liman (landform)]]). [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 21:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


'''Comment''' The lead is in good shape. Feel free to give me a holler if I can help. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 22:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
<s>Comment: The lead is in good shape. Feel free to give me a holler if I can help. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 22:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)</s>


'''Support''', if the other reviewers are happy with the responses (I can't tell), with the understanding that I'm generally too involved with ship articles to support them at FAC. My only remaining reservation is the "one ship did this, two ships did this, one ship did this" discussion below, but I don't see a way to improve things given the information we've got. Standard [[User:Dank/Copyediting|disclaimer]] applies. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 15:55, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
'''Questions'''

<s>Questions</s>
*I notice you guys are going with {{xt|'''[[Seiner Majestät Schiff|SMS]] ''Goeben'''''}} instead of the usual {{xt|'''SMS ''Goeben''''' ("His Majesty's Ship ''Goeben''")}}. Thoughts? Consistency works better at FAC. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 17:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
*I notice you guys are going with {{xt|'''[[Seiner Majestät Schiff|SMS]] ''Goeben'''''}} instead of the usual {{xt|'''SMS ''Goeben''''' ("His Majesty's Ship ''Goeben''")}}. Thoughts? Consistency works better at FAC. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 17:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
**Done.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 00:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
**Done.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 00:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Line 71: Line 79:
*"On 7–8 May, Yavuz sortied from the Bosphorus" [and returned on the 10th]. Did she leave on the 7th or the 8th? - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 03:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
*"On 7–8 May, Yavuz sortied from the Bosphorus" [and returned on the 10th]. Did she leave on the 7th or the 8th? - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 03:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
**Source doesn't specify. She left with two other ships, so each could have left on different days.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 21:29, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
**Source doesn't specify. She left with two other ships, so each could have left on different days.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 21:29, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
***Okay, I'll change it to "7 or 8". - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 21:45, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
***Okay, I'll change it to "around 7". - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 02:56, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
**That's from Sturm's OSN source, so he'll have to field that one. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 12:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
**That's from Sturm's OSN source, so he'll have to field that one. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 12:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
*"the after superstructure": would "the aft superstructure" do just as well? - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 03:40, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
*"the after superstructure": would "the aft superstructure" do just as well? - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 03:40, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Line 92: Line 100:
'''Comment'''
'''Comment'''
The article states that ''Goeben'' and ''Breslau'' made up the the Mediterranian division, but there was actually a third ship that was part of the division as well, the SMS Loreley which was used as a station yacht at constantinople. I dont know the particulars about her service, but she was attached to the Mediterranian division at the start of the war.[[User:XavierGreen|XavierGreen]] ([[User talk:XavierGreen|talk]]) 06:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
The article states that ''Goeben'' and ''Breslau'' made up the the Mediterranian division, but there was actually a third ship that was part of the division as well, the SMS Loreley which was used as a station yacht at constantinople. I dont know the particulars about her service, but she was attached to the Mediterranian division at the start of the war.[[User:XavierGreen|XavierGreen]] ([[User talk:XavierGreen|talk]]) 06:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Though ''Loreley'' was technically assigned to the division, when writers refer to the unit they're not including her, as she was an active participant. I don't see much reason to include her in this article. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 17:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

* '''Comments''' - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] - [[User talk:Ealdgyth|Talk]] 13:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Comments''' - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] - [[User talk:Ealdgyth|Talk]] 13:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comments'''
**In the Balkan Wars section you have a link to the main article First Balkan War at the top but then in the second paragraph note the service in the Second Balkan War. Why not link to both at the top of the page?
***I'll let Parsec answer this one, but I'm more inclined to delete the header link since it's linked immediately below.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 03:44, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
****Removed. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 18:45, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
**In the section The pursuit of Goeben and Breslau you note that international law allowed the ships to be in a neutral port for only 24-hours. Do we know which international law specifically, and if so why isn't the specific law linked in the section?
***Yes, and done.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 03:44, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
**Do we have an article for Russian destroyer ''Leitenant Pushchin''? If so, please link.
***No article.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 03:44, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
**In the Black Sea operations - 1914 section you note that her holes were plugged with concrete, however I would like to know if this move was due the inability of the ship to have a dock large enough for service or if other factors (like time constraints, neutrality laws, economics, etc) had a hand in this decision as well.
***As far as I can know the only criterion was the lack of a big enough dock, as is already stated.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 03:44, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
**The coal transports mentioned in the 1915 section, were these commercial vessels or were they built specifically for the navy? If the latter was the case I would suggest seeing if we have an article here for fleet coalers and linking to it. If not, please disregard this comment.
***AFAIK they were not navy colliers.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 03:44, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
**In the post war section you have a note about the tonnage of the floating dry dock acquired to fix ''Yavoz'', by curious coincidence both the measurements are equal. Please check this, as it is my experience that metric units and other units are rarely equal.
***Rounding error, currently only 2 significant digits, as metric tons and long tons are actually fairly close.
**Just out of curiosity, I seem to recall a comparison of the time this ship served in relation to the time that {{USS|New Jersey|BB-62}} served, I do not see this in the article and its not a big deal, but am I right to assume that the comparison was in fact located in this article, or was it another article that I am thinking of? [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 18:32, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
***Yes, I think it was something along the lines "the longest continually-serving dreadnought-type ship" with a note qualifying that ''New Jersey'' had served longer but had been in for much of that time. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 04:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
****If you look at an old version of the article (like [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=SMS_Goeben&oldid=327103239 this one]) you'll see it. It strikes me as an odd comparison, as there have been plenty of battleships that spent a lot more time on active service than ''New Jersey'' did (forex, {{USS|Texas|BB-35}} spent over 40 years on active service, more than double that of ''New Jersey''). [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 11:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

*'''Support''' - with the disclaimer that I have edited this article in the past, adding information from Whitley. Only one quibble: was there any information in your sources on the Kaiser's visit in 1917? Why was in Turkey, etc? [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 21:06, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

*'''Image review''' - this is a simple one. All images but one are from the Bundesarchiv; the last one ([[:File:Yavuz (Goeben) battlecruiser Istambul April 1946 - cropped.jpg]]) was taken by a U.S. Navy photographer, which makes it a work of the U.S. federal government and in the public domain. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 21:11, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> No further edits should be made to this page.''</div><!--FAbottom--><!--Tagged by FA bot-->

Latest revision as of 09:16, 25 September 2021