Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Nell: Difference between revisions
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. --> |
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:{{la|Jeremy Nell}} (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:Jeremy Nell|wpReason={{urlencode:AfD discussion: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Nell]]}}&action=delete}} delete]</span>) – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Nell|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2008 May 26#{{anchorencode:Jeremy Nell}}|View log]])</noinclude> |
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Jeremy Nell is not noteworthy enough to have an article. Article was self-authored. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 21:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC) |
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The result was '''keep.''' Take your drama elsewhere, please. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC) |
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I am also nominating the following related pages because the page serves merely as an advertisement for Jeremy Nell's non-noteworthy blog and it is also another self authored article: |
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:{{la|Urban_Trash}} |
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[[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 21:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC) |
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I am also nominating this related article because it is of low quality, self authored and describes a non-noteworthy cartoon. |
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:{{la|Ditwits}} [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 23:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''', notability demonstrated by sources. COI is not by itself a reason to delete; nor would be article quality, though this one looks fine (maybe a touch-up for PR tone). I personally would redirect [[Ditwits]] to Nell's own article, because in my (US) experience, editorial cartoons don't have separate notability or even generally titles, and in particular the article content is almost identical (across all three articles). I have no problem with a daily strip having separate notability, though. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 04:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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I agree; this article has been around for long enough, and Nell is established enough as a recognised cartoonist, to warrant this article. To delete this article simply because one comment (above) has suggested it, is not good enough. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 06:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Ditwits can be moved into Nell's article, but it is still a daily comic, just like his other one [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 07:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Crowlike, please respond to the following, quoted from [[WP:AFD]]: |
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<blockquote>Please disclose whether you are an article's primary author or if you otherwise have a vested interest in the article.</blockquote> |
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[[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 14:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''', because a visit to Jeremy Nell's "trashmedia.co.za" site will reveal that '''rrcatto''' has started a personal vendetta against Jeremy and his blog simply because Mr Catto's crude, vulgar language and hate speech could no longer be tolerated by several TrashMedia fans/visitors. They requested that Jeremy "moderate" Mr Catto who is unable to control himself, it seems. |
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And Mr Catto should know better than to try (ab)use Wikipedia in this way! |
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[[User:DavidPetros|DavidPetros]] ([[User talk:DavidPetros|talk]]) 20:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Furthermore, the accusation is unfounded and unsubstantiated! Mr Nell did '''not''' write this article. It was originally created by a fan! |
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Also, one could ask "Zapiro" whether he feels Jeremy is a nobody in the field. I was at a cartoon book launch last year where Mr Shapiro referred to Mr Nell as one of the rising stars in the industry. |
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So, Mr Catto clearly doesn't know what he is talking about! |
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[[User:DavidPetros|DavidPetros]] ([[User talk:DavidPetros|talk]]) 20:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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DavidPetros could be another sockpuppet of Jeremy Nell's. Editing history shows that he has only made two edits to the Urban Trash article. The personal attacks are unneeded. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 21:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Please read this comment, left by rrcatto, under one of Jeremy's posts: http://trashmedia.co.za/2008/05/21/a-young-great-barrier-reef/#comment-26778 You will immediately see that this catto person is heavily abusive and cant be taken seriously. If you read further down in that same thread, you will see that rrcatto is under investigation by the Human Rights Commission of South Africa, for his inappropriate hate speech and veiled death threats. He clearly has it out for Jeremy Nell. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 21:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Jeremy Nell is guilty of nothing but being an objective cartoonist with a brilliant sense of humour. Catto didn't get his own way on trashmedia.co.za and had his ego bruised when people turned on him after his rancid comments. You are absolutely correct when you say that he shouldn't be taken seriously, Jeremy has done no wrong here and as such his wiki page should stay as is in my opinion. My question is, will these comments be deleted after this "inquest" is over? I don't feel they hold any purpose in ruining Jeremy's wikipage. |
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[[Special:Contributions/41.208.50.176|41.208.50.176]] ([[User talk:41.208.50.176|talk]]) 21:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Crowlike and sockpuppets I suggest you address the objective issues instead of resorting to slander and personal attacks. You have yet to declare what your interest is in editing these articles. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 21:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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There is no slander. These are facts. The "issue" can not be dealt with until your underlying agenda is exposed. I suggest that Wikipedia's staff suspend your account, since you're conducting yourself in an inappropriate manner. You're even accusing other commenters as "sockpuppets" without any evidence to support your claims. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 22:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Are you refusing to disclose what your interest is in these three articles? [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 22:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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If you go to South Africa's leading online news portal, www.news24.com, you'll see Urban Trash listed in the primary navigation, under "Cartoons". The same goes for South Africa's other leading news portal, www.iol.co.za. In fact, Urban Trash is also diplayed on the front pages of the following South African daily newspapers' websites:<br> |
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Cape Argus (www.argus.co.za), <br> |
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Cape Times (www.capetimes.co.za),<br> |
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Daily News (www.dailynews.co.za),<br> |
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Pretoria News (www.pretorianews.co.za),<br> |
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the Post (www.thepost.co.za),<br> |
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Mercury (www.themercury.co.za),<br> |
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The Star (www.thestar.co.za),<br><br> |
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[[Special:Contributions/198.54.202.94|198.54.202.94]] ([[User talk:198.54.202.94|talk]]) 22:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Nell's daily political cartoon, Ditwits, is diplayed on the front page of The Times (www.thetimes.co.za). Perhaps not as frequently as daily, Ditwits is also displayed on Daryl Cagle's website at http://cagle.com/politicalcartoons/PCcartoons/nell.asp. Cagle.com is widely recognised as the one of the largest, if not the largest, political cartoon website. [[Special:Contributions/198.54.202.94|198.54.202.94]] ([[User talk:198.54.202.94|talk]]) 22:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC) |
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On News24.com alongside Urban Trash are listed two other cartoons - Stidy and Treknet - neither of which I have ever heard of. Neither of them have articles on Wikipedia. On Iol.co.za, Urban Trash is listed alongside Zapiro, Mama Taxi and Crack of Dawn. Zapiro is well known and has a WP article. The others are unknowns. |
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My point is that just because a cartoon happens to be published by a newspaper, does not automatically confer notability status on it, nor make it well known. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 09:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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*<small>'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Authors|list of Authors-related deletion discussions]]. </small> <small>-- [[User:Fabrictramp|<font color="#960018" face="comic sans ms">Fabrictramp</font>]] | [[User talk:Fabrictramp|<font color="#960018" face="Papyrus">talk to me</font>]] 00:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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*<small>'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Comics and animation|list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions]]. </small> <small>-- [[User:Fabrictramp|<font color="#960018" face="comic sans ms">Fabrictramp</font>]] | [[User talk:Fabrictramp|<font color="#960018" face="Papyrus">talk to me</font>]] 00:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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My gosh, you really have it out for Jeremy, don't you rrcatto? It's pointless debating with you because anything that is presented you are going to attack. There is enough evidence given to show that Urban Trash is widely read in South Africa, and nothing you say can prove otherwise. Stop giving your opinions, and give facts. [[Special:Contributions/198.54.202.94|198.54.202.94]] ([[User talk:198.54.202.94|talk]]) 10:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Before discussing an article for deletion, you should be a logged in user, not an IP address. I think it is also telling how Nell and his sockpuppets react each time with personal attacks instead of addressing the issue with civility. Although requested more than once, the primary editor (Crowlike) refuses to disclose his interest in the three articles nominated for deletion. |
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Fact is that newspapers regard cartoon strips as filler content. Publication of a cartoon strip by a newspaper does not convey that the newspaper thinks the strip and the strip's author are notable in any way. There is only one well known cartoonist in South Africa and that is Zapiro. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 10:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Rubbish. Ha ha ha! That's a stupid sweeping statement to make. Define "well known". And once you've done that, please prove that he is the only "well known" cartoonist in South Africa. And if the editor deems a comic fit to run it on his publication's website, it means that is noteable enough in his eyes. This is obvious. Your sweeping nonsensical statements are, however, not obvious. rrcatto, you're clearly desperate to delete Nell's articles for your own personal reasons. [[Special:Contributions/198.54.202.94|198.54.202.94]] ([[User talk:198.54.202.94|talk]]) 11:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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It doesn't seem rational to accuse me of being desperate to delete Nell's articles. I think it is more logical to assume that Nell is desperate to retain his self promoting articles on WP. [[User:Richard Catto|rrcatto]] ([[User talk:Richard Catto|talk]]) 12:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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The fact that Nell's cartoons appear on all those newspaper websites is enough to warrant notability. It's more than enough. You'll need to prove otherwise, without Google. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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{{NOINDEX}} |
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Forgot to add, Nell's cartoons don't ONLY appear on those websites. They also appear in printed newspapers, some of which are included in that website list. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 17:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Urban Trash is published in the South African (www.southafrican.co.uk) too. It's a newspaper for expats in the UK, with a distribution of around 90000 copies. (http://www.southafrican.co.uk/aboutus.aspx). Urban Trash is also published in both the South African and Namibian Big Issue magazines, which are distributed around Joburg, Cape Town, and Windhoek. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 17:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> |
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There is actually no "debate" here. Nell's cartoons are widely sybdicated in South Africa, and are definitely noteworthy. Your anecdotal opinion makes no difference to the facts. Over and out. [[User:Crowlike|Crowlike]] ([[User talk:Crowlike|talk]]) 17:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC) |
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