Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/H-Store

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to VoltDB. T. Canens (talk) 16:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

H-Store

H-Store (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by WP:GNG. Sources offered are all WP:PRIMARY. I have searched for better sources with Google and found nothing useful. It's possible this may become notable in the future, but for now, it's WP:TOOSOON. Msnicki (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: H-Store is quickly becoming the strongest reference for new database architectures. I don't think it's too soon to include an entry of this project on Wikipedia, since it has started in 2007, and will definitely be a relevant for future databases. I strongly recommend its entry on Wikipedia.eribeiro76 —Preceding undated comment added 03:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC) — eribeiro76 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: H-Store has been one of the most influential transaction prossecing system designs of the recent years. Many products (eg. voltdb) as well as academic research projects (eg. HyPer) are based on it. It definitely deserves an entry in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.211.229 (talk) 10:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC) — 76.126.211.229 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: I just rewrote this article to use less language from their website and add more meaningful citations (I am not affiliated with this project). This system is significant because it represents the beginning of a new wave of database systems, much like how MongoDB and those types of systems are part of the NoSQL wave. This is not a product like DBeaver. If you don't know the history of previous academic systems from this group, like C-Store, then you shouldn't be commenting.--UMD-Database (talk) 04:37, 6 July 2012 (UTC)— UMD-Database (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

At AfD, we're usually trying to decide WP:Notability. Newcomers are often surprised that we use the term differently than they expect. Here on Wikipedia, it's not enough that a subject seems notable. Other people not connected to the subject have to have actually taken note and they have to have done it in WP:Reliable sources. Generally speaking, it takes two good sources, e.g., two journal or magazine articles actually about the subject. This is why even though you may be absolutely correct that H-Store is "the beginning of a new wave", it's what we call an argument to avoid, meaning that even though you could be right, it's still not a very strong argument here because it doesn't address the key question, are there sources to establish notability. If we can't establish notability, we usually either delete the article or merge the content somewhere else. I hope this is helpful. Msnicki (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• Delete. This feels similar to the DBeaver page nominated for deletion yesterday in that there is not enough signifiance to it. At the moment I would argue that this would fail WP:GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Velinath (talk • contribs) 03:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC) — Velinath (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: Agreed with User:UMD-Database (not affiliated, but familiar with the work and authors). H-Store is heavily cited in the literature of the "new wave of database systems" and its design is the inspiration for the well-known VoltDB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdbne (talk • contribs) 16:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)— Pdbne (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: H-Store is heavily cited in the literature (>50 cites) and is part of many lectures. We use H-Store as one main part in our Lecture New Database Models at the University of Innsbruck. --Woolf44— Woolf44 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

---

• Relisting comment: By head count, this discussion should at this point be called a "keep" outcome. However, aside from the nominator, the six accounts and ips discussing this software product have amongst them a total of 37 edits, including the nine edits of the page creator. To my reading, the above assertions are pretty much a list of arguments to avoid in such discussions. I'm thinking we need eyes more experienced in policy and guidelines to broaden this discussion. BusterD (talk) 01:34, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
• Possible merge Could merge with VoltDB, which is based on H-Store. There's a bit of coverage outside academic sources[1][2][3], enough that I'd favour merge rather than delete, but it's not very in-depth. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:32, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 21:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

---

• Comment - I agree with Buster and would add that many of the references are hosted on a Brown website (one of the universities involved in development) and only a few are what we would consider outside sources. The article's well put together; but those who want to keep should be looking for outside sources that discuss the project. The ZDNET article is a start, but that article alone's not enough (it's more of a blog entry really). If the verdict is to delete I would suggest userfying it to the creator's page, letting them reintroduce it later if there's more widespread coverage. Shadowjams (talk) 21:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Keep It's hard for non-experts to judge the significance of this DBMS, but I think that there are just about enough citations, papers and other references (such as the ZDNET article) that we should err on the side of caution and keep the article. There are some mentions of H-Store by people working at universities other than Brown, so not all the sources are primary. CodeTheorist (talk) 21:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

The ZDNET article isn't very substantial, and most of the others seem to be from people associated directly with the project. Do you have any examples of external sources? Shadowjams (talk) 22:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

"H-store: a high-performance, distributed main memory transaction processing system" seems to have roughly 60 citations in Google scholar, many of which are from researchers at other universities ( citations ). CodeTheorist (talk) 07:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually it's more than that. You are citing the second publication. The original H-Store paper has almost 200 citations. UMD-Database (talk) 12:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Merge to VoltDB: we have an independent source to prove the relation and some academic sources, which are assumed to pass editorial control and/or peer review. – Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 01:01, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Keep Most of Stonebraker's other systems have their own articles: Ingres, Postgres, C-Store, Mariposa. The newest two are H-Store and SciDB. I also note that C-Store and Vertica are separate articles as well. --LeonWrinkles (talk) 04:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)— LeonWrinkles (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep I vote against merging. Hstore and voltdb are separate projects with very different goals. Hstore is purely a research project (but as others have pointed out, it is cited a lot), while voltdb is a commercial product. The web sites show that they are developed by different people and have different code. Somebody should also make a separate article for the other hstore Frugalmoogle (talk) 15:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)— Frugalmoogle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment. As noted by BusterD in his relisting comment, we seem to be overrun with SPAs, all but one !voting keep. This basically never happens unless someone is WP:CANVASSING. Eight of the 12 13 the editors !voting have only a miniscule number of edits outside this AfD. The 4 5 remaining !votes (me, Colapeninsula, Shadowjams, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff and CodeTheorist) are delete, merge, comment only, merge and keep. Msnicki (talk) 16:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey, you missed me. I have no connection whatsoever with H-Store and !voted keep. CodeTheorist (talk) 17:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Indeed you did, you're not an SPA and I miscounted. Sorry. Msnicki (talk) 19:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Not sure why I am not being counted. Some of us have day jobs and don't edit stuff a lot. This thing is interesting to me because we studied it in class. UMD-Database (talk) 23:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

It's not personal. The concern is that you only have 9 edits and 5 of them were either here in this AfD or in the article itself. That's an unusual pattern unless someone has been canvassed -- especially when there are several of you. As explained at WP:SPA, "experienced editors often scrutinize the editing activities of new editors and single-purpose accounts carefully in a discussion to discern whether they appear to be here ... for promotion, advocacy or other unsuitable agendas. ... New editors should be aware that while courtesy and a warm greeting will usually be extended, they may be subject to more scrutiny in the early stages of their editing as other editors attempt to assess how well they adhere to Wikipedia standards." Msnicki (talk) 00:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

• Merge to VoltDB with redirect, H-Store was/is the research behind the notable, commercial VoltDB Zad68 20:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

As the nom, obviously I was asking for delete. As above, I think this could become notable, just not yet. But I could definitely support a consensus to merge. That would be very appropriate. Msnicki (talk) 22:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Merge to VoltDB, which is where the notability is. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:10, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• "Keep": AFAIK, H-Store is open source, VoltDB is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfermigier (talk • contribs) 21:21, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.