Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tal slutzker

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The last two delete !votes are especially unconvincing. Notability either exists or it doesn't; it's not confined to certain areas. Kurykh (talk) 05:33, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Tal slutzker

Tal slutzker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:ANYBIO for lack of available sources. - MrX 13:12, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

• Delete No news hits suggests no substantive coverage as required for GNG either. O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 13:16, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 02:39, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 02:39, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

• Keep Finding multiple sources, just added a long profile article from 2011.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:43, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

• Added several articles that include details of his bio and long descriptions of his work form which a good article can be sourced, there were more similar. I did not expand the article, just added a few articles and confirmed that he is a notable artist. It is likely that his name has variant spellings; he is the son of Russian immigrant to a Hebrew-speaking country, so transliteration of the name form Hebrew or Cryillic alphabets is probably queering editors searches. Including mine, which turned up many hits in the Jerusalem Post, guessing that the other big Israeli dailies transliterated it differently.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:57, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

• Keep Participating in exhibitions in Tel Aviv and Ramat Gan museums of art grant passing WP:CREATIVE. In addition to Jerusalem Post references, I've found some references in Maariv. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 11:30, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

• CommentThe shows in the Tel Aviv Museum of Art and the Ramat Gan Museum of Israeli Art are group exhibitons; I do not see how they could be considered to satisfy WP:CREATIVE's requirement for "being a major part of a significant exhibition". Very routine stuff.104.163.152.194 (talk) 09:12, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 02:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 00:50, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

• Delete It seems that notability, if any, is confined to Israel. The museum shows, mentioned above, are actually group shows, which is vastly different from having a solo show or being in the permanent collection. It's therefore difficult to verify the notability, and to say whether it's purely local or something more significant. The article needs significant cleanup. Google books returns little. I'm not convinced that he is a significant painter, or that this is an important article for the wiki.198.58.162.176 (talk) 06:06, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

See my comment below to confirm that he is in the permanent collection of the national museum. But national notability in any country is not "purely local." it is national.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

It's a paper-based information index, not a collection. See my comment below.104.163.152.194 (talk) 08:57, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

• Delete still no clear passing of the notability guidelines for artists.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:22, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

:*This: [1] page on the Israel Museum website confirms that he passes WP:ARTIST, 4. It not only provides a WP:RS bio (birth, education) It links to a page showing exhibitions of his work in galleries and in other major museums, including the Tel Aviv Museum of Art and the Ramat Gan Museum of Israeli Art. Page links to a page showing a number of Slutzker works in the permanent collection of the Israel Museum. E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:32, 21 February 2017 (UTC) My error.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:59, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

CommentE.M.Gregory, I believe the page you linked to above to prove notability is actually just an index of Israeli artists. When I click the "collections" tab, then search for his name, I get nothing. Here is the page for S-named artists in the Israel Museum's permanent collection. Eero Saarinen is at the top, and Slutzker is not on the list. The page linked to above also lists 100s of artists whose surname ends in S, meaning the collection would have perhaps 5000 different artists in it (200x26), which would be a truly massive collection. Conclusion: slutzker is not in the Israel Museum permanent colleciton. Now, if one checks the Wikipedia page for the Information Center for Israeli Art, which is the name given on the page you linked to above, it does say they have text files for over 12000 artists. Having a file folder in a museum with your name on it and paper reviews inside is not what WP:ARTIST refers to when it says the artist has their work in the collections of a major museums. The other museum shows you mention (the Tel Aviv Museum of Art and the Ramat Gan Museum of Israeli Art) above are all group shows, and not permanent collections, so they have no bearing on point four of WP:ARTIST. Also apologies for the confusion, but my router's periodic reset means my old IP of 198.58.162.176 is now: 104.163.152.194 (talk) 08:52, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, point four of WP:ARTIST does not command a solo show, but requires "has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition". Tel Aviv Museum of Art and the Ramat Gan Museum of Israeli Art are major Israeli museums and the shows there bring the artist to a National Level of notability. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 09:50, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I would encourage a closer look at the museum shows that you argue would establish his notability. For example, the show "Blue-and-White Delftware" at the Tel Aviv Museum was a show of "hundreds of ancient Delft tiles, vases, plates and more—as well as works by ten Israeli ("blue-and-white") artists who "corresponded" with Delft, including Raffi Lavie and Yair Garbuz, and by artists especially commissioned to create contemporary Delft tiles." Translation: Slutzker was asked to do a plate or tile in Delftware to be exhibited as a contemporary example along with hundred of other historical examples. This is not a "significant show" by any means. It is not substantial either. A significant and substantial museum show is when you get a few rooms with your work in it, or a solo show. Museums assidously preserve evidence of substantial museum shows on their web sites. The Israeli Msueum of art "Artic 7" show is similary not significant: it is a group show of eight artists. Nothing comes up searching the show title. If these were significant shows, rather than the routine exhibitons that they are, it would be easy to find sources. Finally, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this arists is about 29-30 years old at the moment. It's rare for artists under 30 to be involved in serious and significant museum exhibitons.104.163.152.194 (talk) 02:00, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• 'Note that the 2000, 2006 and 2011 articles from the Jerusalem Post are long profile/feature articles about this artist. I linked them from Proquest, which is password protected.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:43, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

• Because it is paywalled, here is the opening paragraph from the 2011 article: "Tal Slutzker, barely 25 years old, has decided to stage the first full-fledged, high-profile solo exhibition of his paintings. Some would ask, "Why so soon, when the artist is still so young?" Others, however, who are familiar with this young man and aware of his resume as an artist, are demanding to know what has taken him so long. " Teh article mentions early participation in group exhibitions and, "A now notorious "one-painting exhibition" in the window of the Tova Osman Gallery in Tel Aviv, showing the enormous derriere of a nude woman in a bathtub, stopped both pedestrian and vehicular traffic in front of the gallery on Ben-Yehuda Street." And continues " And then, around 2006, Slutzker simply fell off the radar and disappeared from the local art scene. The young prodigy, after a few heady years of acclaim, decided to quietly hone his skills and develop as an artist. Little or nothing was seen by him or heard about him for the next five years or so. Until now. " The 2011 exhibition, called "Where is My Mind," was at the Bernard Gallery in Tel Aviv.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:06, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

That's a friendly quote, but it seems like all the journalistic sources come from the Jerusalem Post. That is not ideal. if he were truly notable the sources would be available form a wide variety of publications and easy to find; they are not.104.163.152.194 (talk) 02:04, 24 February 2017 (UTC)— 104.163.152.194 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

This comment from an WP:SPA is not accurate.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:16, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm not an SPA by any more than you are. I've actually been editing Wikipedia for years as an IP editor. My router resets frequently, for whatever reason. If you thik the comments is inaccurate, please explain why.104.163.152.194 (talk) 17:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Your assertion is false because the article was already sourced to attilces in 3 Israeli daily papers when you asserted that "all the journalistic sources come from" a single newspaper.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

A click on you IP number showed that you began editing yesterday.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:29, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Since you are new, you may not know that you can show good faith by striking out the assertion you made that "all" sources already in the article come from a single newspaper. We try to be very careful here about making sure that our statements of fact are accurate. You also may not be aware that non-English sources and newspapers are legitimate sources even in this, the English-language, version of Wikipedia. Also, your comments will be taken more seriously if you sign in and get yourself a username.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• Sources a gNews search on his name in Hebrew [2] brings up stories about him in major Israeli dailes: Haaretz, Maariv (newspaper) and Yedioth Ahronoth. The aggressive and sometimes untruthful IP edits aside, this appears to be a simple case of a good faith AFD on an under-sourced article that read as PROMO (and still needs a improvement) , presumed COI, but the subject is an artist with gallery shows, museum shows, and a good deal of substantive coverage in the national press, albeit in a very small country.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• If it's undersourced, let's see hte sources.104.163.152.194 (talk) 17:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• I linked to them in my edit.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:27, 24 February 2017 (UTC) These are WP:RS: feature stories, profiles, and art review coverage in several major national daily papers published over the course of several years, in addition to the ones added to the page by me and by User:ArtHistorian during the course of this discussion.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

• EMG, let's hear from some other editors. We have made our own views very clear.104.163.152.194 (talk) 05:58, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.