Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pokemon Elite 2000: Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, let's end this before this thing gets any longer. Protests aside, there's nothing verifiable here. Friday (talk) 16:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Pokemon Elite 2000[reply]

Advertising, not notable enough, spam. --K4zem 22:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We want to have a place to record all the history for PE2K in a place that is easily accessible to everyone, and can be modified easily. This wiki was made under those intentions, not under the intention to advertise.

[The major problem with the article is that there is little to no possibility of verification. Much of Pokemon Elite 2000's (PE2K) history is unavailable due to forum deletions and what not. For example, the deletion of the forum at proboards can be verified only by outside "archival" sources that list likely one page of the actual website. Another example (which cannot be verified) was the history of this website and the forums at http://www.pokecommunity.com (PC), which due to the fact that PC had been reincarnated once already, it would be difficult to verify that PE2K actually did merge with PC at one point, and then decided to leave the PC community. Finally, a third example is that it is impossible to verify the actual "start" of the forums. We have a rough idea of the timeframe, and through deduction from the same "archival" sites, we have made only a rough estimate of the time when the forums start, but not the exact date. We know it's most likely around the date of February 10th, 2002, but the exact date may be a day or two earlier depending on the time delay between the creation of the forums and the post done by Ryan.

Link for estimation of forum start date: http://web.archive.org/web/20020220205411/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?board=general

Verification of early Global Moderators (time of promotion is lost, but promotional order of the first three global moderators is as such, but cannot be verified except by memory of Kenny c002): 1. http://web.archive.org/web/20021022190018/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=ash_pikachu_98 2. http://web.archive.org/web/20021010180154/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=SyrusTheTriumphant 3. http://web.archive.org/web/20030605005810/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=Kenny_C.002

Most of the current events in PE2K, however, can be verified. For example, the current "WAR" can be verified via forum posts by global moderators of PE2K.

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20020802104421/http://pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi http://web.archive.org/web/20040211203456/http://pokemonelite.proboards5.com/ http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/announcement.php?f=44] Kenny c002 00:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, its extremely hypocritical to delete this wiki, but not to delete the serebii.net wiki, which is just about the same thing as this one.

Contrary to that primitive point above, the Serebii.net article does seem to refer to a website/forum that is far more substantial, is updated more often with more resources, and has a forum with more members (and more importantly, more active and "quality" members). However, I personally do believe neither lives up to Wikipedia standards (which have that beautiful deception of being high). So will someone tag the Serebii.net article for deletion?--I AM a Citation 01:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, site is not notable. Rationale for the Serebii.net article's per I AM a Citation. Also, the Serebii.net article HAS been tagged for deletion. --T e tsuya-san (talk : contribs) 02:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pika57-- Serebii.net has been tagged for deletion in the past. Currently, the serbii.net article has less infromation, and is weaker than our article, depsite the fact that it was started today.

"(and more importantly, more active and "quality" members)."

You must not have looked too hard there... I'm a regular there, and every week there's a new spammer or troll screwing the place up. And practically every month, Joe gets fed up with everything and quits managing Serebii for a few days. Yeah... that's real quality...

All we want is for us to have a place to keep PE2K's rich history in an easily accessible, easily edited, free, snazzy skinned enviornment. PE2K really does have some good history, and most of the stuff we intend on posting was deleted by Proboards. Its taking a little time to get our vets online to start remembering stuff, so we're writing out the most basic stuff now.

Please allow us to keep this article, we're begging you...

Delete can someone clean up the garbage here? Danny Lilithborne 05:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:WEB - just another pokemon site - Peripitus (Talk) 05:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

rust - "fails WP:WEB - just another pokemon site"

Erm... we do have one requirement from the WP:WEB...

"The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster."

There's PE2K Radio, a Pokemon Radio station that frequently endorses us (Link is at the bottom of the page). It was originally a Pokemon Radio station, but became PE2K Radio when they began endorsing us. I'm going to have an article up about that tomorrow.

Sorry, but that quote refers to your content. As in, the particular shows and/or music that you play. However, that content is distributed through a site that is NOT well known (4lifenet). If anything, you should have an article *purely* on 4lifenet and "pe2k" radio, and nothing on the website/forums.--I AM a Citation 14:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

rust--We only host PE2K Radio on 4lifenet. If we could, we would host is on Pokemonelite2000.com, but the owner of PE2K Radio (ELMO) wouldn't be able to update it, only Ryan can, and he hasn't been very active for the past few weeks...

Consider that the Pe2K radio WAS hosted on the pokemonelite website. Then you would be attempting to justify its existence because its distributing content on a well known website (itself), when its status AS a well-known website hasn't been established. The actual forum is NOT content! The actual posts and/or updates on the website are NOT content. The actual radio shows and the copyrighted music IS content. The official pokemon music is already mentioned on wikipedia on the pages for the movie soundtracks and the pokemon games. The only thing that might even be slightly legitimate on wikipedia is the original content [radio shows] which currently are distributed through 4lifenet. If they were distributed through pe2k, your argument would be WEAKENED. Why? The content would no longer be "independent of the creators," and the actual website which distributed the content (pe2k) is not much more well known (so unknown in fact, that its presence on Wikipedia is being challenged!). Pokemon Elite 2000 has no place on Wikipedia, and until the Radio Shows (the only things that MAY conform to Wikipedia policy) are distributed through a more known website, nothing from pe2k should have any place --I AM a Citation 20:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is nothing more than spam. The only people who will care about the history of this website/forum are the same ones who already go there on a regular basis. If you really want to write about the history of PE2K, do it somewhere else.

Stop trying to delete this article just because you don't like it. We're trying to keep an easily accessible database about PE2K. --Anonymous Member from PE2K, currently

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''
+<!--Template:Afd top
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result was '''delete''', let's end this before this thing gets any longer.  Protests aside, there's nothing verifiable here.  [[User:Friday|Friday]] [[User talk:Friday|(talk)]] 16:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 [[Pokemon Elite 2000]]
@@ Line 5: / Line 12: @@
 We want to have a place to record all the history for PE2K in a place that is easily accessible to everyone, and can be modified easily. This wiki was made under those intentions, not under the intention to advertise.
-[The major problem with the article is that there is little to no possibility of verification.  Much of Pokemon Elite 2000's (PE2K) history is unavailable due to forum deletions and what not.  For example, the deletion of the forum at proboards can be verified only by outside "archival" sources that list likely one page of the actual website.  Another example (which cannot be verified) was the history of this website and the forums at http://www.pokecommunity.com (PC), which due to the fact that PC had been reincarnated once already, it would be difficult to verify that PE2K actually did merge with PC at one point, and then decided to leave the PC community.  Finally, a third example is that it is impossible to verify the actual "start" of the forums.  We have a rough idea of the timeframe, and through deduction from the same "archival" sites, we have made only a rough estimate of the time when the forums start, but not the exact date.
+[The major problem with the article is that there is little to no possibility of verification.  Much of Pokemon Elite 2000's (PE2K) history is unavailable due to forum deletions and what not.  For example, the deletion of the forum at proboards can be verified only by outside "archival" sources that list likely one page of the actual website.  Another example (which cannot be verified) was the history of this website and the forums at http://www.pokecommunity.com (PC), which due to the fact that PC had been reincarnated once already, it would be difficult to verify that PE2K actually did merge with PC at one point, and then decided to leave the PC community.  Finally, a third example is that it is impossible to verify the actual "start" of the forums.  We have a rough idea of the timeframe, and through deduction from the same "archival" sites, we have made only a rough estimate of the time when the forums start, but not the exact date.  We know it's most likely around the date of February 10th, 2002, but the exact date may be a day or two earlier depending on the time delay between the creation of the forums and the post done by Ryan.
+Link for estimation of forum start date:
+http://web.archive.org/web/20020220205411/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?board=general
+Verification of early Global Moderators (time of promotion is lost, but promotional order of the first three global moderators is as such, but cannot be verified except by memory of Kenny c002):
+. http://web.archive.org/web/20021022190018/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=ash_pikachu_98
+. http://web.archive.org/web/20021010180154/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=SyrusTheTriumphant
+. http://web.archive.org/web/20030605005810/pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&username=Kenny_C.002
 Most of the current events in PE2K, however, can be verified.  For example, the current "WAR" can be verified via forum posts by global moderators of PE2K.
@@ Line 11: / Line 27: @@
 Source:
 http://web.archive.org/web/20020802104421/http://pokemonelite.proboards5.com/index.cgi
-http://web.archive.org/web/20040211203456/http://pokemonelite.proboards5.com/] Kenny c002 July 14, 2006
+http://web.archive.org/web/20040211203456/http://pokemonelite.proboards5.com/
+http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/announcement.php?f=44] [[User:Kenny c002|Kenny c002]] 00:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+Also, its extremely hypocritical to delete this wiki, but not to delete the [[serebii.net]] wiki, which is just about the same thing as this one.
+Contrary to that primitive point above, the Serebii.net article does seem to refer to a website/forum that is far more substantial, is updated more often with more resources, and has a forum with more members (and more importantly, more active and "quality" members). However, I personally do believe neither lives up to Wikipedia standards (which have that beautiful deception of being high). So will someone tag the Serebii.net article for deletion?--[[User:I AM a Citation|I AM a Citation]] 01:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+* '''Delete''', site is not notable. Rationale for the Serebii.net article's per I AM a Citation. Also, the Serebii.net article HAS been tagged for deletion. --[[User:Tetsuya-san|T]][[User:Tetsuya-san/Esperanza|<span style="color:#009933;">e</span>]][[User:Tetsuya-san|tsuya-san]] <small>([[User_talk:Tetsuya-san|talk]] : [[Special:Contributions/Tetsuya-san|contribs]])</small> 02:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+'''Pika57'''-- Serebii.net has been tagged for deletion in the past. Currently, the serbii.net article has less infromation, and is weaker than our article, depsite the fact that it was started today.
+----
+"(and more importantly, more active and "quality" members)."
+You must not have looked too hard there... I'm a regular there, and every week there's a new spammer or troll screwing the place up. And practically every month, Joe gets fed up with everything and quits managing Serebii for a few days. Yeah... that's real quality...
+----
+All we want is for us to have a place to keep PE2K's rich history in an easily accessible, easily edited, free, snazzy skinned enviornment. PE2K really does have some good history, and most of the stuff we intend on posting was deleted by Proboards. Its taking a little time to get our vets online to start remembering stuff, so we're writing out the most basic stuff now.
+Please allow us to keep this article, we're begging you...
+*'''Delete''' can someone clean up the garbage here? [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]] 05:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - fails [[WP:WEB]] - just another pokemon site - [[User:Peripitus |Peripitus]] [[User talk:Peripitus|(Talk)]] 05:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+----
+'''rust -'''
+"fails [[WP:WEB]] - just another pokemon site"
+Erm... we do have one requirement from the [[WP:WEB]]...
+"The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an '''online broadcaster'''."
+There's PE2K Radio, a Pokemon Radio station that frequently endorses us (Link is at the bottom of the page). It was originally a Pokemon Radio station, but became PE2K Radio when they began endorsing us. I'm going to have an article up about that tomorrow.
+Sorry, but that quote refers to your content. As in, the particular shows and/or music that you play. However, that content is distributed through a site that is NOT well known (4lifenet). If anything, you should have an article *purely* on 4lifenet and "pe2k" radio, and nothing on the website/forums.--[[User:I AM a Citation|I AM a Citation]] 14:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+'''rust--'''We only host PE2K Radio on 4lifenet. If we could, we would host is on Pokemonelite2000.com, but the owner of PE2K Radio (ELMO) wouldn't be able to update it, only Ryan can, and he hasn't been very active for the past few weeks...
+Consider that the Pe2K radio WAS hosted on the pokemonelite website. Then you would be attempting to justify its existence because its distributing content on a well known website (itself), when its status AS a well-known website '''hasn't been established'''. The actual forum is NOT content! The actual posts and/or updates on the website are NOT content. The actual radio shows and the copyrighted music IS content. The official pokemon music is already mentioned on wikipedia on the pages for the movie soundtracks and the pokemon games. The only thing that might even be slightly legitimate on wikipedia is the original content [radio shows] which currently are distributed through 4lifenet. If they were distributed through pe2k, your argument would be WEAKENED. Why? The content would no longer be "independent of the creators," and the actual website which distributed the content (pe2k) is not much more well known (so unknown in fact, that its presence on Wikipedia is being challenged!). Pokemon Elite 2000 has no place on Wikipedia, and until the Radio Shows (the only things that MAY conform to Wikipedia policy) are distributed through a more known website, nothing from pe2k should have any place --[[User:I AM a Citation|I AM a Citation]] 20:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
+----
+This article is nothing more than spam.  The only people who will care about the history of this website/forum are the same ones who already go there on a regular basis.  If you really want to write about the history of PE2K, do it somewhere else.
+----
+Stop trying to delete this article just because you don't like it. We're trying to keep an easily accessible database about PE2K.
+--Anonymous Member from PE2K, currently
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>