Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Kottke (1st nomination): Difference between revisions

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was Keep. Rje 02:47, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Jason Kottke

The summary of this thing is already on Slashdot trolling phenomena. An article whose existence essentially reflects the systemic bias of wikipedia. Non-notable. nomination by anon user:67.180.61.179. typos in the nomination later fixed by anon user:192.246.231.121

~~No notability established. Delete. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:36, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)~~ Revisions have established notability. Changing vote to Keep. -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:27, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep, notable blogger. Deletion isn't a valid response to systemic bias, either. Rhobite 01:38, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
Keep, notable - 200,000+ Google hits, needs cleanup and expansion. Megan1967 01:52, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'm voting cleanup for the moment. Surely one offhand comment about copying a file isn't truly his greatest accomplishment?! If he is notable, this article utterly fails to establish that. If nothing more worthwhile can be added during the course of this VfD, I'll change my vote to Delete UPDATE: Additional details added by Capitalistroadster show notability. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:10, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
I have heard this guy's name somewhere before. I guess that means he must have some sort of notability. Expand and keep.--ZayZayEM 02:51, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Seems notable within the blogger community. JoaoRicardo 02:54, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Delete. Utterly devoid of notability. — Trilobite (Talk) 03:07, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
As a rule we should answer systemic bias by adding, not by tearing down. Keep and expand. Samaritan 04:15, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I partially agree, but if a subject is notable only in a small subculture which happens to be disproportionately represented among Wikipedia users, we should be aware of this and not make it an exception to our policies regarding notability. The original VfD and the state of the article at the time of the VfD made it seem like the only people Kottke was "well-known" to were those who write or read trolling posts on Slashdot. -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:35, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Have added to article added details about his blog including winning a Lifetime Achievement Award in the Bloggie awards. Designed the Silkscreen font in 1999 which is widely used and on the advisory board for the SXSW board since 2000. Capitalistroadster 08:41, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep, obviously. Who has not heard of this person? GRider\^talk 22:04, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Huh? It's some blogger. Seems completely non-notable. Delete. Everyking 23:10, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Resisting... urge... to say many things. Rhobite 00:19, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
  - I'm not. What the hell? -- Cyrius|✎ 00:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Will wonders never cease? An article that Everyking thinks should be deleted and which I think should be kept! I normally don't add "me-too" keep votes. (Believe it or not, if I did, there would be quite a few.) But I cannot resist. Blogging has become a very significant phenomenon on the Internet, and Kottke won the Bloggie Lifetime Achievement Award in, IIRC, 2002, which is about as notable as you can get as a blogger. You can quibble about the Bloggies, since sometimes the results seem kind of stacked (kind of like Wikipedia), and some types of blogs, such as political blogs, are under-represented and under-appreciated, though they have a wider significance than blogs that receive a lot of Bloggie votes. But that doesn't prevent the Bloggies from being used as a strong, although not exclusive, indicator of the notability of bloggers. Having said that, it can't be true that the quote about the Mac is his most "famous" quote. It's a dorky quote and it is hard to believe that he hasn't said anything more interesting than that to win the Bloggie. --BM 01:12, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Extreme keep. This person is equally as notable as paniq is within his own field. —RaD Man (talk) 08:37, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- As best I can tell, all this guy is "notable" for—and I have a very liberal interpretation of notability—is winning some award that sounds like an honor roughly equivalent to The Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence, and he designed some font or some such thing. And some trolls quote him saying something incomprehensible. What? We delete articles less notable than that every other day. It actually seems like there's an exception being made here for "nerdcruft", which doesn't seem terribly fair to me. Everyking 08:46, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  - Here's a violin. —RaD Man (talk) 10:02, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  - There is some similarity between the paniq case and this one, which I thought about when I voted. There is the hazard of narcisism for Wikipedia to have articles about Internet phenomena, I would agree. However, blogging is a much bigger Internet phenom than the demoscene, and Kottke has more clearly established himself as notable within it than paniq has within the demoscene. But I'm impressed that you are paying attention. --BM 14:48, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    - Indeed. Lets all give ourselves a nice pat on the back for ascribing to double standards. —RaD Man (talk) 20:31, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  - Since you spoke up again, Everyking: I'm dumbfounded. I hate to bring the Ashlee Simpson thing into this, but it's hard to ignore the hypocrisy of your statements. You're writing off the blog community as "nerdcruft". It's hard not to notice the similarities between your argument, and the mindset which you've railed against for wanting to scale down the Ashlee Simpson coverage. Kottke is without a doubt significant in the weblog community, and Simpson is an unquestionably notable in pop music. Well, you're accusing the blog community itself of being insignificant and using that as an excuse to delete an article about a notable blogger. Hey, does that type of closed-minded bias remind you of anything? Such as people who argue that pop singers are inherently less notable than classic rock acts? Rhobite 21:16, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
    - The difference, of course, is the number of people affected. How many people read this guy's blog, or consider his work significant? If it's more than a few thousand, I'll vote keep. But my suspicion is that the number is pretty damn small, and he's receiving magnified attention due to the general tendency of Wikipedia's contributors to be especially interested in topics relating to technology and computers. Ashlee and her music, on the other hand, are known and important to millions, so I see little grounds for comparison. Everyking 07:48, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
      - I can't find a more authoritative number, but his Alexa trafic rank is 23,502. This isn't some guy with a blog, it's some guy with a reallly popular blog. If it were any other sort of web site, people would be all over it with keep votes due to Alexa's number alone. -- Cyrius|✎ 13:21, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        Keep. As someone who formerly had root on his webserver, I can speak from experience about the levels of traffic reaching kottke.org. I'm not sure Jason would care for me divulging specifics, but his hit counts are into the millions per month and there are over 100k unique IPs hitting the site every month. I believe the blogging community is a significant modern sociological phenomenon and within that community Kottke is one of the major players. He carries something akin to celebrity status within the weblog community, and the intersection between Wikipedia usership and weblog audiences is significant. Mouser 18:27, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        
        All right, you and Cyrius have convinced me, he seems sufficiently notable after all. My vote can be considered a keep. Everyking 22:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Delete. Blogcruft, blogpromo. Blogger navel gazing. Hey, let's set up Jason Kottke and Ashlee Simpson on a blind date. We can have a TV show, and then write a Wikipedia article about it. It's just crazy enough to work. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:29, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
discussion thread blanked here by anon user:64.170.192.95. restored by CryptoDerk
Strong Keep. Blogging is almost a household word (Many reporters and columnists no longer feel the need to define what "blogging" or a "weblog" is anymore when they mention it), and Jason kottke is one of the most, if not the most, well-known of all bloggers. He is also mentioned in at least three books that I could find with Amazon's search inside this book feature (probably many more). Milquetoast 18:39, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- user has a very light contribution history
Keep - a frontman in blogging. One of the most notable bloggers on the web. Also, its helpful to be able to look him up if you dont know who he is.
- Vote left by IP 132.236.117.156. Please log in for your vote to be fully counted. —RaD Man (talk) 19:43, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Please delete this guy, he's one in a million. Who cares about his online diary? unsigned comment by anon user:66.194.111.1. later deleted by user:Radman1. restored by Rossami
Keep. Needs to be cleaned up/expanded, as does Anil Dash. On the other hand, Wikipedia's getting too big - someone should start a Blogopedia, a PopCultoPedia, etc. Also, Kottke voted for deletion for the article in its current form. Salasks 21:30, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
STRONG Keep and cleanup. Kottke is one of the foremost in blogging these days- numerous websites link to him. ral315 22:22, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
Strong keep. Kottke is very notable, in my opinion. --OntarioQuizzer 23:41, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Delete- The person does not create any content except some mediocre css/xhtml design (for internet) some photo collections and other daily content, but nothing notable and special. I check this site often for links to other sites and interesting articles. The design which is represented on this page reflecting this period (2001 - 2006->) unsigned comment by anon user:80.203.35.239
Delete. Maybe I should put STRONG DELETE since that would make my vote count twice as much, maybe? 15 minutes of fame does not make one notable. Wagiles 01:11, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
- this user's account created since this vote began
keep ComCat 01:50, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Delete. The man has no redeeming qualities. And his blog is mediocre at best. unsigned comment by anon user:68.81.182.85. later deleted by user:Radman1. restored by Rossami
Keep - Even the votes for delete mark his notability as link shepherd and stylistic lamp-post. He's not famous; just notable and influential. His web-presence is widely felt. -- Jonathan Bruder 9 Feb 2005
- this is the user's only contribution so far
Extreme keep. His blog is widely read, representative of an increasing interest in the area of blogging, enough so that people hearing of him will want to look him up. denmise 02:40, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
- this is the user's only contribution so far
Keep. Jason Kottke is a notable and influential blogger. Repeatedly referenced by many community sites. Created the silkscreen font, widely used on the web and by television networks such as MTV. This article needs editing and expansion of context, not deletion. --ElfWord 07:45, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep - Documenting online culture, and the people who create online culture, is one of the most notable accomplishments of Wikipedia. Jason Kottke's influence on blogging is more or less undisputed within the blogging community. Deleting his entry would be a real disservice. Chuck Olsen
- this is the user's only contribution so far
Keep - Quoted everywhere, read by everyone, definitely influential at least in the webdesign microverse. phnk unsigned comment by anon user:129.215.13.83
Keep. One of the most influential bloggers. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 16:54, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Supercalifragilisticexpialadocious super gamma-level extreme death ray wacka wacka doo doo yeah 10th-level "I choose you, Pikachu!"-level Keep. Or, to put it another way, keep. I agree with other remarks here about revising things to meet standards, rather than deleting those that don't meet them. Besides, like other people on Wiki such as Cory Doctorow, Kottke is notable amongst a good chunk of the 'Net community, and there's no harm in having information on him on Wiki.WCityMike 17:28, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
Delete - Writer of a niche (nyc and some webdesign) weblog - not globally applicable.
- Vote left by IP 203.79.118.172. Please log in for your vote to be fully counted. WCityMike 22:19, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
user:WCityMike refactored the discussion here, accidentally losing some comments in the process
Keep. kottke.org ranks 24th on the Blogging Ecosystem, which ranks blogs by inbound links -- which is higher than both Matt Drudge and Salam Pax. He doesn't write about himself nearly as much as he writes about web technology trends, and the people who link to him are generally name web designers. --Dhartung | Talk 00:29, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. —tregoweth 14:46, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
Jesus, Keep! - this guy is so much more famous than a lot of the other people on wikipedia. Also, he is an icon of a movement that is happening right now that involves millions of people. Deleting this is nuts. --Philosophistry 06:46, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. --Easyas12c 12:17, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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-This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below[[Template:Vfd top|.]] '''This page is no longer live.''' Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. <br >The result of the debate was '''Keep'''. [[User:Rje|Rje]] 02:47, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
+This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. '''This page is no longer live.''' Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. <br >The result of the debate was '''Keep'''. [[User:Rje|Rje]] 02:47, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
 ===[[Jason Kottke]]===
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 *'''Keep''', notable blogger. Deletion isn't a valid response to systemic bias, either. [[User:Rhobite|Rhobite]] 01:38, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''', notable - 200,000+ Google hits, needs cleanup and expansion. [[User:Megan1967|Megan1967]] 01:52, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
-*I'm voting '''cleanup''' for the moment.  Surely one offhand comment about copying a file isn't truly his greatest accomplishment?!  If he is notable, this article utterly fails to establish that.  <s>If nothing more worthwhile can be added during the course of this VfD, I'll change my vote to '''Delete'''</s> UPDATE: Additional details added by  Capitalistroadster show notability. [[User:Starblind|Andrew Lenahan - <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">St</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF5500">ar</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF8000">bli</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFC000">nd</FONT>]] 02:10, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
+*I'm voting '''cleanup''' for the moment.  Surely one offhand comment about copying a file isn't truly his greatest accomplishment?!  If he is notable, this article utterly fails to establish that.  <s>If nothing more worthwhile can be added during the course of this VfD, I'll change my vote to '''Delete'''</s> UPDATE: Additional details added by  Capitalistroadster show notability. [[User:Starblind|Andrew Lenahan - <span style="color:#FF0000;">St</span><span style="color:#FF5500;">ar</span><span style="color:#FF8000;">bli</span><span style="color:#FFC000;">nd</span>]] 02:10, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
 *I have heard this guy's name somewhere before. I guess that means he must have some sort of notability. Expand and keep.--[[User:ZayZayEM|ZayZayEM]] 02:51, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 *'''Keep'''. Seems notable within the blogger community. [[User:JoaoRicardo|JoaoRicardo]] 02:54, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 * ''discussion thread blanked here by anon [[user:64.170.192.95]].  restored by [[user:CryptoDerk|CryptoDerk]]''
 *'''Strong Keep'''. Blogging is almost a household word (Many reporters and columnists no longer feel the need to define what "blogging" or a "weblog" is anymore when they mention it), and Jason kottke is one of the most, if not the most, well-known of all bloggers. He is also mentioned in [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764549626/qid=1107972278/sr=5-3/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-8773365-6360935?v=glance&s=books at least] [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738207411/qid=1107972278/sr=5-3/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-8773365-6360935?v=glance&s=books three] [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312330006/qid=1107972278/sr=5-2/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-8773365-6360935?v=glance&s=books books] that I could find with Amazon's search inside this book feature (probably many more). [[User:Milquetoast|Milquetoast]] 18:39, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
+** ''user has a very light [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Milquetoast contribution history]''
 *'''Keep''' - a frontman in blogging. One of the most notable bloggers on the web. Also, its helpful to be able to look him up if you dont know who he is.
 ** Vote left by IP [[User:132.236.117.156|132.236.117.156]].  Please log in for your vote to be fully counted.  &mdash;[[en:RaD Man|'''RaD Man''']] ([[User_talk:Radman1|''talk'']]) 19:43, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
@@ Line 40: / Line 41: @@
 *'''Delete'''- The person does not create any content except some mediocre css/xhtml design (for internet) some photo collections and other daily content, but nothing notable and special. I check this site often for links to other sites and interesting articles. The design which is represented on this page reflecting this period (2001 - 2006->)  ''unsigned comment by anon [[user:80.203.35.239]]''
 *'''Delete'''.  Maybe I should put STRONG DELETE since that would make my vote count twice as much, maybe? 15 minutes of fame does not make one notable. [[User:Wagiles|Wagiles]] 01:11, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
+** ''this user's account created since this vote began''
 * keep [[User:ComCat|ComCat]] 01:50, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * '''Delete'''. The man has no redeeming qualities. And his blog is mediocre at best. ''unsigned comment by anon [[user:68.81.182.85]].  later deleted by [[user:Radman1]].  restored by [[user:Rossami|Rossami]]''
 *'''Keep''' - Even the votes for delete mark his notability as link shepherd and stylistic lamp-post. He's not famous; just notable and influential. His web-presence is widely felt. -- [[User:JonathanBruder|Jonathan Bruder]] 9 Feb 2005
+** ''this is the user's only contribution so far''
 * '''Extreme keep'''. His blog is widely read, representative of an increasing interest in the area of blogging, enough so that people hearing of him will want to look him up. [[User:denmise|denmise]] 02:40, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
+** ''this is the user's only contribution so far''
 *'''Keep.''' Jason Kottke is a notable and influential blogger. Repeatedly referenced by many community sites. Created the silkscreen font, widely used on the web and by television networks such as MTV. This article needs editing and expansion of context, not deletion. --[[User:ElfWord|ElfWord]] 07:45, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' - Documenting online culture, and the people who create online culture, is one of the most notable accomplishments of Wikipedia. Jason Kottke's influence on blogging is more or less undisputed within the blogging community. Deleting his entry would be a real disservice. [[User:Chuckumentary|Chuck Olsen]]
+** ''this is the user's only contribution so far''
 *'''Keep''' - Quoted everywhere, read by everyone, definitely influential at least in the webdesign microverse. [http://www.phnk.com phnk] ''unsigned comment by anon [[user:129.215.13.83]]''
 *'''Keep'''. One of the most influential bloggers. [[User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 16:54, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
@@ Line 56: / Line 61: @@
 *'''Jesus, Keep!''' - this guy is so much more famous than a lot of the other people on wikipedia.  Also, he is an icon of a movement that is happening right now that involves millions of people.  Deleting this is nuts. --[[User:Philosophistry|Philosophistry]] 06:46, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 *'''Keep'''. --[[User:Easyas12c|Easyas12c]] 12:17, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
-This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. '''Please do not edit this page'''[[Template:Vfd bottom|.]]
+This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. '''Please do not edit this page'''.
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