User talk:Nick Graves: Difference between revisions
→List of former Jews AfD: Allow me to move this (the above) here and I'll try to get back to you on it when I get a chance. Thank you. |
Notification: listing of Frigging at WP:Redirects for discussion. |
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== Pluaral form of [[moose]] == |
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==Taking Woodstock actor== |
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You're welcome. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 04:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC) |
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We see people adding the incorrect term "meese [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Moose&diff=prev&oldid=526530169] from time to time but it is usually done by IP or vandal accounts, not established users. This has led me to wonder where this is coming from. So, of you don't mind my asking, where did you get the idea that "meese" was the proper pluaral form of "moose"? If there is some other website out there spreading misinformation it would be good to know that. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 18:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC) |
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== Redefinition of atheism? == |
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:The mistake was mine alone. I apologize, and thanks for checking. [[User:Nick Graves|Nick Graves]] ([[User talk:Nick Graves#top|talk]]) 19:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC) |
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Sagan was most definitely an agnostic, who neither affirmed nor denied the existence of God. That makes him a nontheist (and therefore an atheist, in the modern, broad sense). |
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== [[Jeffrey Johnson (actor)]] == |
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That seems a curious redefinition. |
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Atheism has a perfectly good definition, agnostics are most certainly not automatically atheist. [[User:Unomi|Unomi]] ([[User talk:Unomi|talk]]) 05:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Hello, and thanks for tagging this for notability. The tag's still there 5 years later; you could take it to the Notability Noticeboard or AfD, or remove the tag if you are no longer concerned. Best wishes, [[User:Boleyn|Boleyn]] ([[User talk:Boleyn|talk]]) 21:46, 24 February 2013 (UTC) |
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:I take it that first line is a quote from me? Anyway, being agnostic doesn't automatically make one an atheist or nontheist. If I said that before, I was mistaken. However, the broad definition of ''atheist'' (one who does not believe in deities) is well-attested in multiple, reliable sources. It's not ''my'' re-definition, but ''a'' definition that is gaining currency. There is more than one definition for the word. Anyway, we have a reliable source identifying Sagan as an atheist. That's why he's in List of nontheists. [[User:Nick Graves|Nick Graves]] ([[User talk:Nick Graves#top|talk]]) 02:53, 21 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Questions on the "List of atheists in science and technology" inclusion discussion == |
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::I don't know if it is a definition that 'is gaining currency' or not, but I do not believe it to be the dominant one if we go by dictionary sources. If by broad you mean unspecific, then perhaps yes. It is still such that most dictionaries cater to 2 non-overlapping definitions, 1. Ignorant of religion( In the sense of a newborn or 'innocent') 2. The doctrine or belief that there are no gods. The position of 'withholding belief' is the agnostic one. [[User:Unomi|Unomi]] ([[User talk:Unomi|talk]]) 05:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Dear Nick Graves, since you are the #1 contributor (according to wiki statistics) on the "List of atheists" article, is it possible to take part in the discussion of this article: [[Talk:List of atheists in science and technology]]? There is a Wikipedia user named "Pgarret" who is removing some well documented people (like Alan Turing and Steve Wozniak) from this list because he/she is commenting that Wikipedia's policy states that scientists must labeled themselves as atheists. "Pgarret" is also removing atheists who had said some nice things about religion (which I don't understand). If we were to take this guideline in a strict fashion, even [[Richard Dawkins]] would not be included in the list since he also called himself an agnostic as well. Source: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist]. If you don't want to take part in the talk-page, could find and contact other administrators to take part in this issue? If not, could you please tell me how to alert other wikpedian users/administrators into this debate? I would appreciate it. [[User:Ninmacer20|Ninmacer20]] ([[User talk:Ninmacer20|talk]]) 19:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Dictionaries naturally lag behind in their documentation of usage. The dominant definition used by those who self-identify as atheists is anyone who does not believe in deities. Regardless, the term nontheist always includes such persons, which avoids the controversy of competing definitions. [[User:Nick Graves|Nick Graves]] ([[User talk:Nick Graves#top|talk]]) 04:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Michael Schmidt-Salomon == |
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::::Perhaps dictionaries do lag behind, that doesn't change wikipedias policy of relying on such sources for content. Considering the broad definition of atheism that seems to be sought adopted it is curious that those atheists don't simply self-identify as nontheists. Obviously we cannot just write articles that support our supposition, because of wikipedias policy regarding reliance on [[WP:RS]]. Atheism is an important concept, held to be so not just by those that identify themselves as following its creed. Further, a word or concept is not 'owned' by those that identify by that word. By the way, I am moving our dialogue currently at [[Talk:List_of_nontheists_(science_and_technology)]] to [[Talk:List_of_nontheists]], I hope that you do not take offence to the move. [[User:Unomi|Unomi]] ([[User talk:Unomi|talk]]) 11:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Hi Nick, |
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:::::The definitions used in List of nontheists are well-supported by reliable sources. There is nothing about that list's use of terminology that goes against WP policy. [[User:Nick Graves|Nick Graves]] ([[User talk:Nick Graves#top|talk]]) 13:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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are you interested in translating the new sections of [[de:Michael Schmidt-Salomon]] into English? |
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::::::I have outlined some of the problems with the definition used at [[Talk:List_of_nontheists]]. [[User:Unomi|Unomi]] ([[User talk:Unomi|talk]]) 17:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Greetings, --[[User:Merkið|Merkið]] ([[User talk:Merkið|talk]]) 18:03, 13 August 2014 (UTC) |
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==Sagan== |
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== Frigging listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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I don't really want to get into a silly edit war over this, but I'm positive you can't classify [[Carl Sagan|Sagan]] as a nontheist unless all agnostics can be classified as such. I've read all his books and sometimes he was very skeptical about the idea of God, but other times he was certainly open to the possibility and actually argued that a universe with regular laws would be what you would expect from a God, defined as a creator of the universe. He certainly held that the God hypothesis wasn't in any way scientifically proven, but also that it hasn't really been challenged scientifically either. He also held that the idea of Extraterrestrial life for instance didn't have any scientific evidence backing it up, but he certainly was more than open to the possibility of it. So again, if you define a nontheist as someone who doesn't 100% assert God exists, then you would have to classify all agnostics as nontheists, and I'm pretty sure that someone who says they don't know if God exists but that he might but that his existence hasn't been proven, which would be Sagan's position, would not be classified as a nonthiest. He was agnostic on the idea of extraterrestrials but you wouldn't classify him as someone who did not believe in extraterrestrials. |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] |
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As for the sources labeling him an atheist, since they contradict his own declarations of the subject, they would seem to be false claims, even if they are in a major newspaper.[[User:Roy Brumback|Roy Brumback]] ([[User talk:Roy Brumback|talk]]) 04:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC) |
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Frigging]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Frigging'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 September 4#Frigging|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 05:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] == |
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: Thanks for the heads up, Nick! [[User:The8thbit|8bit]] ([[User talk:The8thbit|talk]]) 03:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC) |
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{{Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 12:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC) |
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==Tate, Golding et al.== |
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== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] == |
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Just wanted to say that I didn't mean to come off as a bit of a jerk on the issue. Naturally, I respect your right to include those people you think fit the category of "nontheist" on that list, but since people in the public eye are often so vague about their beliefs, or change them a few times in their lives, it's hard to tell who is who. [[User:Corbmobile|Corbmobile]] ([[User talk:Corbmobile|talk]]) 10:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC) |
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{{Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 16:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC) |
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== List of former Jews AfD == |
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== Big Daddy Kaine listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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Hi Bus stop. You've expressed elsewhere your objections to the term "ethnic Jew," which is why I did not take your comment about Christian identity possibly having an ethnic component literally, but rather interpreted it as a rhetorical point against the claim that one can be ethnically, but not religiously Jewish. According to most sources on this question that I've seen, Judaism is, in part, an ethnicity, while Christianity is not. One can be born a Jew, but one is not born a Christian, but rather becomes one later in life through baptism, confirmation and/or conversion. One can be an irreligious Jew, or even a Jew who practices another religion instead of Judaism. However, one cannot be an irreligious Christian, as this is a contradiction. [[User:Nick Graves|Nick Graves]] ([[User talk:Nick Graves|talk]]) 02:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC) |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] |
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Big Daddy Kaine]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Big Daddy Kaine'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 July 27#Big Daddy Kaine|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 19:26, 27 July 2016 (UTC) |
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:Allow me to move this (the above) here and I'll try to get back to you on it when I get a chance. Thank you. [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]] ([[User talk:Bus stop|talk]]) 02:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC) |
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== Lists of nontheists listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] |
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Lists of nontheists]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Lists of nontheists'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 December 12#Lists of nontheists|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 17:48, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== "Frigging" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px]] |
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:Frigging]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 20#Frigging]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #3F00FF;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 23:54, 20 July 2022 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 23:54, 20 July 2022
We see people adding the incorrect term "meese [1] from time to time but it is usually done by IP or vandal accounts, not established users. This has led me to wonder where this is coming from. So, of you don't mind my asking, where did you get the idea that "meese" was the proper pluaral form of "moose"? If there is some other website out there spreading misinformation it would be good to know that. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
- The mistake was mine alone. I apologize, and thanks for checking. Nick Graves (talk) 19:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, and thanks for tagging this for notability. The tag's still there 5 years later; you could take it to the Notability Noticeboard or AfD, or remove the tag if you are no longer concerned. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 21:46, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Questions on the "List of atheists in science and technology" inclusion discussion
[edit]Dear Nick Graves, since you are the #1 contributor (according to wiki statistics) on the "List of atheists" article, is it possible to take part in the discussion of this article: Talk:List of atheists in science and technology? There is a Wikipedia user named "Pgarret" who is removing some well documented people (like Alan Turing and Steve Wozniak) from this list because he/she is commenting that Wikipedia's policy states that scientists must labeled themselves as atheists. "Pgarret" is also removing atheists who had said some nice things about religion (which I don't understand). If we were to take this guideline in a strict fashion, even Richard Dawkins would not be included in the list since he also called himself an agnostic as well. Source: Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist. If you don't want to take part in the talk-page, could find and contact other administrators to take part in this issue? If not, could you please tell me how to alert other wikpedian users/administrators into this debate? I would appreciate it. Ninmacer20 (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Michael Schmidt-Salomon
[edit]Hi Nick,
are you interested in translating the new sections of de:Michael Schmidt-Salomon into English?
Greetings, --Merkið (talk) 18:03, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Frigging listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Frigging. Since you had some involvement with the Frigging redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Steel1943 (talk) 05:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Big Daddy Kaine listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Big Daddy Kaine. Since you had some involvement with the Big Daddy Kaine redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. BDD (talk) 19:26, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Lists of nontheists listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Lists of nontheists. Since you had some involvement with the Lists of nontheists redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Steel1943 (talk) 17:48, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
"Frigging" listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Frigging and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 20#Frigging until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 23:54, 20 July 2022 (UTC)