Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramin Ott

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I find Sportsfan's analysis of the coverage persuasive. The two keep arguments that follow are extremely weak. The plain keep is hardly an argument at all. The weak keep makes a better argument but still presents no sources. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Ramin Ott

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Ramin Ott (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Besides the FIFA article. there is no sources that satisfy either criteria. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 13:10, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Oceania. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 13:10, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

• Ramin Ott is a very important personality for American Samoa football, and a very important figure for the nation, since he is the top scorer, having scored crucial goals, changing the course of football for his whole nation, making him a national hero, and his page, being one of few about footballers from American Samoa with some information, must not be banned under no circumstances, since references and sources can easily be found.

Thank you, Ach.de.graf

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 08:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. The FIFA source is good but not enough on its own. GiantSnowman 08:50, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
• Keep - Per @Ach.de.graf:. He is American Samoa's all-time top scorer (see this and this), was captain at one point, and scored in their famous first ever victory, a 2-1 win over Tonga (see this and this). He was featured in the well-known documentary Next Goal Wins] (see this and this) and has been interviewed by World Soccer magazine (see this) Also, these sources show he is notable in American Samoa: 1, 2, 3, and 4. I look at the other sports WikiProjects and they don't nearly have an article deleted per day, let alone 30. By the time I wrote this another 30 are probably deleted. Article may need improvement, but definitely not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:03, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

  The first six sources clearly fail the WP:100 words (on the subject) that is required to demonstrate WP:SIGCOV. The FIFA source is fine. The eighth source is quotes from Ott, which fails "independent of the subject". The ninth source is not independent of the subject and the last source listed also fails WP:100 words. This is a clear fail of both WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Please stop bombarding these AFD discussions with links that clearly do not demonstrate GNG. This is distruptive. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:16, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

  The FIFA source is not fine, it fails independence. JoelleJay (talk) 03:28, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

• Keep - Passes GNG. Simione001 (talk) 08:16, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

  Can you explain how? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:16, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

• Weak keep: He is the topscorer of American Samoa football team, an important public figure. I found some sources (not much reliable) from youtube. Its really hard to find sources about a player from American Samoa. But Im pretty sure that many offline sources would be available from newspapers and magazines.Silentone1995 (talk) 18:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
• Weak delete Happy to change my !vote if new sources are found, however currently the subject lacks in-depth coverage in independent sources. MrsSnoozyTurtle 00:12, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
• Strong delete. There is zero presumption of SIGCOV for footballers, even international ones, if there are no SIGCOV sources cited in the article. Zilch. So appeals to his status as a "top scorer" have no weight. This means GNG must be demonstrated to prevent deletion, and efforts to do so have manifestly failed. How many times do we have to remind the same editors that passing mentions, routine match recaps, transactional coverage, promo pieces from governing sports orgs, interviews, and unreliable sources do not count towards notability? It should not be up to other editors to fact-check every single source presented by these editors at each AfD just to ensure they meet our basic requirements for independence and reliability, let alone SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 03:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.