User talk:LovSLif: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
m →Discussion on sources: oops; sorry for the multiple edits |
→ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message: new section Tag: |
||
| (37 intermediate revisions by 10 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
== RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage == |
|||
Greetings, |
|||
==Asian 10,000 Challenge invite== |
|||
Hi. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge]] has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland [[Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge]]. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like [[Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)]]. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon]] which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --<font face="Old English Text MT">[[User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|Ser Amantio di Nicolao]]</font><sup>[[User_talk:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|''Che dicono a Signa?'']]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ser Amantio di Nicolao|'''Lo dicono a Signa.''']]</sub> 05:18, 20 October 2016 (UTC) |
|||
For your information, a RfC discussion has been initiated (One point in discussion is in relation to discussion topic [[Child marriage in India]] which you were previously involved in editing.) |
|||
== [[WP:ACE2016|ArbCom Elections 2016]]: Voting now open! == |
|||
'''Request for Comment''' has been started @ [[Talk:Narendra Modi#RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage]] |
|||
{{Ivmbox|Hello, LovSLif. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2016|2016 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. |
|||
The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. |
|||
If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates|the candidates' statements]] and submit your choices on '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/399|the voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC) |
|||
|Scale of justice 2.svg|imagesize=40px}} |
|||
<!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52 bot@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User:Mdann52_bot/spamlist/53&oldid=750814308 --> |
|||
Thanks for inputs |
|||
[[User:Bookku| Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge']] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 15:35, 10 July 2021 (UTC) |
|||
== ArbCom 2018 election voter message == |
|||
== ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message == |
|||
{{Ivmbox|Hello, LovSLif. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2018|2018 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. |
|||
<table class="messagebox " style="border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;"> |
|||
<tr><td style="vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|40px]]</td><td>Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2021|2021 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2021|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2021#Election timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. |
|||
The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. |
The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. |
||
If you wish to participate in the |
If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2021/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2021|poll}}|voting page]]'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)</small> |
||
</td></tr> |
|||
|Scale of justice 2.svg|imagesize=40px}} |
|||
</table> |
|||
<!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2018/Coordination/MMS/07&oldid=866998231 --> |
|||
<!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2021/Coordination/MM/06&oldid=1056563377 --> |
|||
== Language section edits to satavahana dynasty == |
|||
== Discretionary sanctions alert and notes == |
|||
Desh language was original spoken language of Andhra tribe migrated from Yamuna River bank around 600BCE. |
|||
{{ivmbox | image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg |imagesize=50px | bg = #E5F8FF | text = This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. ''It does '''not''' imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.'' |
|||
It's Apabhramsa form is Paishachi language which is purely literary. Gunadya scripted Bruhatkatha in Paishachi. |
|||
Desh Language got dissolved in Telugu Language when Andhras settled themselves in east coast near Amaravati,their second capital. |
|||
Desh has no script to write. |
|||
In your edit made to Language section of Satavahana Dynasty you have mentioned that satavahana later kings had their names in both Prakrit and Desi(It is Desh not Desi) |
|||
Desh disapperaed pretty soon once it started getting dissolved in Telugu, much before 1 st Century BCE. |
|||
Desh(Paishachi) is Indo Aryan, Indo European family language |
|||
It is not Dravidian language like Telugu(Local Naga Yaksha tribes spoke),Tamil of ancient times. |
|||
Today's Telugu has essence of Desh(dissolved language),Prakrit,Pali and Sanskrit and widely varies from Tamil. |
|||
Please read "AndhraDarshini" Telugu language book published by Vishalandhra Prachuranaalayam ,Vijayawada in 1954. |
|||
You have shown interest in [[India]], [[Pakistan]], and [[Afghanistan]]. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|discretionary sanctions]] is in effect. Any administrator may impose [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Sanctions|sanctions]] on editors who do not strictly follow [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies]], or the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Page restrictions|page-specific restrictions]], when making edits related to the topic. |
|||
Page 28 for languages |
|||
S V Narasayya, K S Reddy, G RadhaKrishnaMurty, AKRB koteswararao are authors of book. |
|||
For additional information, please see the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors|guidance on discretionary sanctions]] and the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee's]] decision [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan|here]]. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. |
|||
}}{{Z33}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert --> |
|||
Pali language was used for Buddhist literature at Satavahana Dynasty. One can find this proof on wikipedia |
|||
{{admin-note}} The dispute at [[Pallava dynasty]] does have a core of a content issue — which theories of Pallava origins should be included and if/how to distinguish between "mythological" claims and historically plausible ones — that is worth discussing (see next para). But, I'm afraid, that the content issue is being buried under the [[Talk:Pallava_dynasty#Origins section|voluminous, poorly-formatted]] posts by {{U|Destroyer27}} and you that often seem focused more on putting each other down than on collaborative editing based on sources and wikipedia content policies. The sniping has also spread to [[Wikipedia:Teahouse#Personal_attacks|several]] [[User_talk:Abecedare#PALLAVA_DYNASTY|other]] [[User_talk:Abecedare#Pallava_dynasty's_origins|venues]]. This has become [[WP:DE|disruptive]], is likely keeping other editors from participating in the discussion, and needs to stop.{{pb}} |
|||
Abhidhammapitaka was written in Pali and read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang for its information. |
|||
The content issue needs to be discussed on the article talk-page with other interested editors but I'll provide some pointers to hopefully help redirect the discussion into more productive avenues. First, don't try to analyze primary sources and solve the problem of [[WP:DUE|inclusion and weight]] ''de novo''. Instead, look at how recent respected secondary sources handle the issue: for example, here is how [https://books.google.com/books?id=TPVq3ykHyH4C&pg=PA120&#v=onepage&q&f=false ''Kulke and Rothermund'' (1986) discuss the origins]. You can look at comparable general Indian history texts. Or, even better, find recent books and review articles dedicated to Pallava history that have been written and reviewed by scholars. Unfortunately, on a quick search I didn't find any obvious works to recommend in the latter category (the older ones like [https://archive.org/details/pallavas034964mbp/page/n12 ''Jouveau-Dubreuil'' (1917)] and [https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfThePallavasOfKanchi/page/n5 ''Gopalan'' (1928)] are far from ideal) but you and other editors may be able to dig some up with deeper effort.{{pb}} |
|||
He studied Abhidhammapitaka at Amaravati and taught Mahayana Buddhism to local monks in 7 th century. |
|||
{{tldr}} Try to limit the number, length and discursiveness of your posting on the topic and format the text, links and references properly. Focus on [[WP:HISTRS]]-compliant sources and content. And stop the personalization and the incivility. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 21:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
I hope fact check will help improve content in Language section. [[User:DeepakMalhar|DeepakMalhar]] ([[User talk:DeepakMalhar|talk]]) 20:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message == |
|||
*Also, recent participation in the discussion by {{user|RViN341}} and {{user|Sourcecharita}} looks like sock-, or more likely, [[WP:MEAT|meat-puppetry]] perhaps prompted by off-wiki discussions. Right now I am not delving into this any deeper but, if it continues, it is likely to attract further investigation and sanctions. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 21:42, 18 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
Dear [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]], You may please go through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Personal_attacks . The comments made by each other is mentioned. The severity of the comments made by the user clearly violate [[Wikipedia:Civility|civil]]. |
|||
Will try to utilize the moderation of user Kautilya to resolve the same or in extreme case to DRN. |
|||
Thanks. |
|||
Regarding the other users Rvin341 or Sourcecharita , I am totally isloated from them and I have no connection/sock. You may request for investigation of their identity if you feel sock or violation. |
|||
I adhere by Wiki policies and respect the same. Thanks for ceasing the discussion which is going in a wrong way. Will try to focus only on the content. [[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 05:29, 19 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
<div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; "> |
|||
<div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px;">[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|40px]]</div> |
|||
<div class="ivmbox-text"> |
|||
Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2022|2022 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2022|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2022#Election timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. |
|||
The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. |
|||
== 3RR == |
|||
[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to work toward making a version that represents [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|the bold, revert, discuss cycle]] for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]]. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. |
|||
'''Being involved in an edit war can result in you being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''—especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> [[User:Canterbury Tail|<b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b>]] [[User talk:Canterbury Tail|<i style="color: Blue;">talk</i>]] 18:38, 26 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
== Please try to be productive! == |
|||
I am afraid you are not achieving much by your frantic posts. You have made over a dozen posts at [[Talk:Pallava dynasty]] within a span of a few hours, but almost none of which is doing what I have asked for, even though you yourself asked me to moderate. You need to make only one post a day, but do it productively, which makes progress towards agreement. When I asked for "sources", you need to provide [[WP:Full citation]]s, not just URL's as you have done [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pallava_dynasty&diff=903609805&oldid=903606722 here]. Without Full citations, it is not possible to determine whether they are [[WP:HISTRS]] or not. |
|||
Also, you need to control yourself from making off-topic comments and engaging in pointless disputes. Anything off-topic merely detracts from the issues at hand and delays reaching CONSENSUS (if not even making it impossible). -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::[[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], |
|||
What I have provided are what I have and that is what I can explain. I feel that is suffice. I cannot waste my time over here further. I feel the entire platform is totally biased and when sources clearly speak on 'what is what' I still do not understand the credibility of such discussion. POV content has clearly overridden the article and many other articles by the user. If you or any admin could not trace them then no point in withstanding and wasting my time. I believe wikipedia articles have lost it's integrity and neutral content. |
|||
I will add the sources one last time tomorrow.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 19:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
:You'd be wise to listen to [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]]. There is no "hurry" to edit Wikipedia and it is more important to get sources right than to resolve issues quickly (and perhaps badly). It helps to be patient. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 03:55, 27 June 2019 (UTC)<br> |
|||
::: Dear [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], Give me some more time. I will provide full sources by today and in much better way by clear segregation of the things. I will not club each other. I will keep it short and striking with apparent facts sourced directly from the books.I will follow complete transparent approach. Thanks for understanding.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 06:16, 27 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
:::: Sure, no problem. Please note that I am not an admin. I am a volunteer editor just like you are. Abecedare has asked me if I can help resolve the disputes on that page, which I am trying to do. My goal as a mediator is not to decide who is right and who is wrong, but to get the contending parties to come to a point where they can agree with each other. I will be giving equal consideration to both of you. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:51, 27 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
{{od}} |
|||
[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APallava_dynasty&type=revision&diff=903990046&oldid=903930773 This post] of yours is too long-winded and disorganised to be useful. I am going to remove it and copy it to your [[User:LovSLif/sandbox|sandbox]]. Please edit it so it is no more than 10 lines long. Remove any out of date sources (published before 1950) or sources already rejected as unreliable. Add proper citations to any sourced statements. |
|||
If you want to be able to get your points of across on Wikipedia and look like a good Wikipedian, you need to learn how to write clear and succinct posts. You have already been warned by {{U|Abecedare}} about writing {{tq|voluminous, poorly-formatted posts}}. Continued behaviour of this kind without any improvement will be regarded as obstinacy and you are likely to be blocked. In this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Destroyer27#Formatting talk page section], both Abecedare and I gave some tips to Destroyer27 about how to use proper formatting. Please review all those suggestions, because they equally apply to you. |
|||
If you want to be able to contribute and improve the [[Pallava dynasty]], you really need to learn this. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:08, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
:: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I do not want to entertain any user further. I have already organized well enough earlier and I cannot drum it repetitively.Sources are pretty clear enough. I ask {{U|Abecedare}} doesn't the same productivity applicable to other users on the discussion? You may look at the sources and the statements made by the other users as well on how reliable enough are their statements and sources. |
|||
@[[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], On what basis the etymology section is holding on article? Did you get chance to verify the sources and content? I belive POV content pushed in self written style is productive enough for wikipedia? |
|||
I belive it was you who provided 3 sources and when I provided statements from the same what is now confusing on the same? |
|||
My counterpart is purely stating on personal assumptions. For instance in his statement says 'Why pallavas did not publish in Telugu if they are from Andhra region'. One should understand when Telugu script evolved and it was Prakrit used by the region and monarchs. |
|||
Do such statements look productive to you? |
|||
Seems wikipedia is entertaining those who got poor knowledge. |
|||
Can you also look at the length of my counterpart statements? Does they hold short enough?.I do not bother about getting blocked and that is what I can expect when wikipedia loses transparency.I live in Singapore and I am a civil services aspirant for Indian services.I refer many a books for history and I just raised my voice against the wrong content over wikipedia and as a consequence I had to end up losing big time despite citing the content from sources rather I would love to quit the moment I feel wikipedia has lost its credibility of being transparent. |
|||
{{U|Liz}} asked to verify the valid sources but seems that ended up unroductive and I still do not know the reason. |
|||
Thanks for your time.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 10:23, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
: LovSLif, please rest assured that if other editors engage in long-winded, disorganised posts, I will caution them in the same way. |
|||
: The Telugu issue was also answered by me when I stated that "Andhra" does not mean "Telugu". We do not need to address every point made by everybody, just those that are necessary to reach consensus on the issue we are concerned about. |
|||
: Regarding the Etymology section, I am not going to get into that issue until we settle the Origins section. I do not have an infinite amount of time to devote to this. If you are able to learn to debate the issues better, you would be able to settle the issues yourself without help from other editors. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::[[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]],I possibly may not agree with your last line.Learning to debate is feasible when both agree to get the facts into mind.At the same time it is not possible when other user is evident of the facts but unable to digest the same.Even your moderation would not help here.This is a basic psycic law. |
|||
I don't think so equal treatment is given on the talk page. |
|||
Any user or you if can notice latest statements on talk page then this is clear.My counterpart agrees on same source which he disagrees earlier.Just messing up the things to show something out of nothing.You may look at the shape of talk page now and decide if equal treatment being rendered. |
|||
Regarding "Andhra" and "Telugu" words,yes! both are not synonymous and I was only showcasing their orgin from Andhra region.Telugu hasn't actually fully evolved by then. |
|||
[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 12:01, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
:LovSLif, I took a look at your post [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APallava_dynasty&type=revision&diff=903990636&oldid=903930773 on Talk:Pallava dynasty] that Kautilya3 moved to [[User:LovSLif/sandbox|your sandbox]] and I too found it difficult to parse given its poor formatting. Please spend a bit of time learning how to [[Help:Wikitext|format wikitext]]; use proper punctuation so that it is clear when you are quoting a source, summarizing a source, or making a general statement; be clear on which exact source (and page number) you are referring to; and, to prevent endless discussion, once a source is found to be unreliable, either dispute that at [[WP:RSN]] or stop referring to it "irrespective of this book reliability." Finally, allow discussion on one topic ([[Talk:Pallava_dynasty#Sources|Sources for Pallava's origin]] currently) to be settled before starting discussion about another topic. |
|||
:All this will make your arguments more clear and effective, save you time, and be respectful of the time others are volunteering. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 13:10, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::Hello {{U|Abecedare}} Alright! Hope this is also applicable to other users on talk page.I noticed user has today opened 2 new sections on talk page just to post his comment on ongoing discussion.When the thread is already in place,how relevant is it to post one's comments in a new section?.Request you to check.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 14:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC) |
|||
{{od}} |
|||
Once again, I am afraid you have made frantic disorganised posts today [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pallava_dynasty&diff=904398906&oldid=904209573]. You are not getting anywhere. |
|||
All the views in my draft are [[WP:In-text attribution|attributed]]. You cannot "contradict" them by stating the views of other scholars. All scholarly views are represented, and we are not going to remove any of them because somebody or other disagrees. You need to quit making such arguments. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 22:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
: Also, I need to collapse some of these comments especially those dealing with Thirunavukkarasu, because the talk page is becoming unreadable. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 22:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::{{u|Kautilya3}}, Let the moderators on [[WP:DRN]] page decide which sources are attributed and which holds good. |
|||
I believe you have moderated and presented your views.To accept or to contradict is up to the users on the discussion.If not happy over your draft, then let me move to DRN team.Let them decide the content to be added. |
|||
I am afraid that moderation is not going transparent enough by looking at your statements including the one on collapsing Thirunavukkarasu dealings. He is a notable scholor and his books are much revered.Request you not to collapse the same. |
|||
Thanks for your time and I will no more comment on talk page.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 03:20, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
---- |
|||
== Discussion on sources == |
|||
::: Thirunavukkarasu is not a historian. Nothing he says can override what the historians have concluded after decades of research. Moreover, you have not even told us what Thirunavukkarasu says. |
|||
::: You always have the option of going to [[WP:DRN]]. But at this stage, since an NPOV draft is available, I don't think you will achieve anything by going to DRN. I suggest you take advice from {{U|Abecedare}}. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)<br> |
|||
::::{{u|Kautilya3}},You had stated to produce modern sources.You ruled out old sources cited by me.At the same time,pointing to the old sources cited by you, you were stating Nothing scholar says can override what the historians have concluded after decades of research.These statements are contradicting with each other.<br> |
|||
Please understand that History is ever progressive and dynamic subject and its content is not static. The moment new research/discoveries materialize old theories/research always do not hold strong. |
|||
You have preferred another user's edited publication which presents selective statements of DC Sircar to original book of DC Sircar which I asked you to refer.No clarity on the same.I request {{U|Abecedare}} to consider these points in a transparent way.<br> |
|||
Term <b>'Kanchi origin'</b> is nothing but a self conclusive term and it has nothing to do with the content/nor used anywhere.They did not put forth 'from kanchi' thesis.<br/> |
|||
Also,using 'Tondaimandalam' synonymous to Kanchi is a clear misguided information.You may refer scholarly book/maps on Tondaimandalaml These sort of terms do not look like 'NPOV' to me.That is why I feel to approach DRN.<br/>I could have progressed to certain agreement of your draft with minor modifications if the term 'Kanchi origin' was not included in your draft.<br/> |
|||
NPOV draft is a first draft and it was posted by you for suggestions/updates.Hope it is not final draft.But unfortunately I do not sense my statements/sources are being considered at all.As stated above,I have uncertainty on the way the discussion and moderation is progressing.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 10:30, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
: "Kanchi origin" (my term) is in line with "Pallavas of Kanchi" (Sircar's term). Do you have an alternative? |
|||
: "Origin in Tondaimandalam" might make you happier. But we have no information that a region called "Tondaimandalam" existed before Pallavas. It seems that the region was named after them (via their Tamil name ''Tondaiyar'' or ''Tondaiman''). |
|||
: I can weaken it to something like "origin in the vicinity of Kanchi". That is the best we can do. But this is not in line with Sircar, who does use terms like "{{tq|Pallavas whom we find stationed at Kanchi at about the end of the third century}}" (''The Early Pallavas'', p.10). -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::{{u|Kautilya3}},"Stationed at kanchi" does not mean they have originated from kanchi. Gabriel propounded the same.Prior to their seizure of kanchi by the end of third century,their forefathers reigned in andhra region and made land grants. |
|||
:: Also, how well does it hold to rely on single sentence. What are your inputs on below statement from the same source. |
|||
:: {{talkquote|SCHOLARS are now generally of opinion that the Pallavas were not indigenous to the K&fici region. Thus Prof. S. K. Aiyanger says, "The Pallavas seem nevertheless to have been foreign to the locality as far as our evidence takes us at present" (op. vit., p. x). The question is now : When did the Pallavas attain political supremacy in the K&ftci region"<ref name="Early Pallavas">{{Cite book |url=https://books.google.co.in/books/about/The_Early_Pallavas.html?id=QoBmnQEACAAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y|title=The Early Pallavas|publisher=Creative Media Partners, LLC |year=2018 |origyear=first published 1935 |author=Dines Chandra Sircar|pp=3-70}}</ref>}} |
|||
:: Also, I am not supporting 'Origin in Tondaimandalam'. just based on'Some author <b>thinks</b> pallavas to be natives of Tondaimandalam'.I am ok to retain the line but proposing/terming the uncertain thesis as 'origin' from kanchi/tondaimandalam does not look ok. We have many such unclear probabilities by various historians stating various origins of pallavas.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 11:44, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::: In the passage you displayed, Sircar is describing Aiyangar's views, which I had summarised in another paragraph. |
|||
::: The draft is summarising three articles in History of India volumes. Unless you have read those articles, you have no basis to comment on whether they are accurate summaries or not. So, please read the articles first. |
|||
::: Finally, if you have an alternative description to replace "Kanchi origin", please state it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 16:33, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
:::: {{u|Kautilya3}}, I have been through the book of Sircar and as I said above, Sircar no where propounded origin from kanchi.He was clear enough on pallavas extension to kanchi.It could be better if you could point to the paragraph or page numbers where he proponated 'Kanchi origin.<br/> |
|||
:::: Those lines you quoted sofar are no where supporting such origin.'settling or extending' is not synonymous to origination.<br/>Request you not to propogate self conclusive terms like 'Kanchi origin'.<br/> |
|||
:::: I have cited book of Heras which translates velurupalayam grants stating conquest of kanchi.<br/> |
|||
:::: You have rejected stating book is old.This book is as old as that of Sircar and younger to Gabriel book.Also,the translation of epigraphical plates will not alter with time.<br/> |
|||
:::: I think the moderation is not progressing in a transparent way,So no point of prolonging the same.Let us park our comments.<br/>As {{u|Abecedare}} said below,I will wait until he reviews and then decide on proceeding to DRN.<br/>[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 03:18, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::::: If you had read through the book of Sircar then why are you quoting the passage where he summarised Aiyangar's views. Why aren't you quoting Sircar's own views? Where did he say 'settling or extending'? -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 04:07, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::::::{{u|Kautilya3}} My previous statement quoted was ascertained by Sircar at the end of the page as follows. "It is almost certain that the Pallavas originally were executive officers under the Satav&hana kings 1".<br/> |
|||
::::::I am not able to find 'Kanchi origin' clearly propounded by Sircar. Would you mind if I ask you to share which chapter of the book you were referring for the 'Sircar's own views'?you may even help with some passage/line to search in the book.[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 07:36, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::::::: Being officers of Satavahanas says nothing about their location. But you seem to claim that it does! |
|||
::::::: For Kanchi origin, please see the second quotation in my post on [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pallava_dynasty&diff=903928235&oldid=903897398 28 June]. I haven't looked through the book for similar material, but it doesn't matter. His later article certainly overrides whatever he might have said in the book. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
::{{u|Kautilya3}},Are you referring to the below quotation? |
|||
{{talkquote|The Pallavas may have been originally provincial rulers under the Later Satavahanas and risen to power in the Kanchi region at the expense of the Nagas. {{harv|Sircar|1970|p=271}}}} |
|||
Again,Here you were referring to the majumdar's book and his explanation on the views of Sircar.Not the original book of Sircar. Uses 'May have' which is not conclusive to say one propounded an origin as per your draft.<br/> |
|||
Been through the book. Here are my observations. |
|||
* The Early pallavas" book by Sircar, not only speaks about the origin rather speaks about various rulers in the line right from their origin till 8th Century. |
|||
* Have been through the original book, where Sircar views various origins of pallavas and to illustrate he utilizes the view of many scholars(including gabriel). |
|||
* The book is very old and we are considering it. I still did not get the reason on why moderator rejected book by 'Heras' which is from the same period. Also why are we not considering the latest sources?.{{u|Abecedare}} please look into this.This is the one I am seeking proper reason. |
|||
* Sircar no where viewed other thesis as conclusive. He even uses the terms like "Not impossible". |
|||
Few example views:<br> |
|||
1. |
|||
{{talkquote|According to the evidence of the Mayidavolu grant, dated in the reign of |
|||
Sivaskandavarman's father, the Andhrapatha (i. e. the Andhra country) with its |
|||
headquarters at Dhamfiakada (Dh&nyakataka) passed from the Iksvakus to the possession of |
|||
the Pallavas. Pallava Sivaskandavarman, who was like CamtamQla I a performer of the |
|||
great Vajapeya and Aivamedha sacrifices, was preceded in the suzerainty of the |
|||
Andhrapatha at least hy his father who must have ruled the country after Ehuvula |
|||
Camtamula II. Sivaskandavarman therefore can hardly be placed earlier than A. D. 300.}} |
|||
2. |
|||
{{talkquote|We have seen above that the Nagas were ruler: of ths Kafici region before the rise of the Pallavas int that locality; it is therefore not impossible that VirakQrca married the heiress}} - rise of pallavas in the locality post marrying is not same as the origin of pallava dynasty.Hope we are speaking about the origin of dynasty.<br/> |
|||
Also as per your draft, neither this thesis/view places nagas exactly at kanchi nor as their capital.aruvanadu between pennar and palar covers both south andhra and north tamilnadu.Malanga capital(which is a region much north to kanchi)<br> |
|||
3. |
|||
{{talkquote|But, how did the Pallavas occupy the Kanci region which was once under the |
|||
Nagas 1 This question is difficult to answer, as we know nothing definitely about}} -'occupy kanchi' to be noted here. |
|||
<br/> |
|||
Finally, I request you {{u|Kautilya3}}, to confine our discussions to the topic even if you are poor at or good in the subject. |
|||
I am referring to the following statement by you 'But you seem to claim that it does!' |
|||
[[User:LovSLif| By LovSLif]] ([[User talk:LovSLif#top|talk]]) 15:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
{{reflist-talk}} |
|||
If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2022/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2022|poll}}|voting page]]'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 01:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)</small> |
|||
*I'll be off-wiki for about the next 24 hours but will take a look at the recent developments soon after that. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 17:18, 2 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
</div> |
|||
*Ok back and have just tipped my toes into the debate but I think that it could well be amenable to resolution by some word-smithing. |
|||
</div> |
|||
** LovSLif: would your concerns about accurate representation of Sircar's hypothesis {{small| (we are not talking about the "correctness" of that hypothesis here)}} be allayed if in [[Talk:Pallava_dynasty#First_draft|Kautila's first draft]], we changed {{tq|...they originated in Kanchi and expanded north}} to {{tq|...they initially rose to power in Kanchi and expanded north...}}? The exact wording can be debated later, with "came to prominence", "gained some power" etc being possible alternatives; 'Kanchi' be changed to 'around Kanchi', if needed. The third para can be similarly tweaked, for example {{tq|the Kanchi origin theory}} changed to {{tq|the Kanchi theory}}. |
|||
<!-- Message sent by User:Xaosflux@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2022/Coordination/MM/05&oldid=1124425179 --> |
|||
** {{mention|Kautilya3}} Would you have any objections to such a change, or alternate suggestions along these lines ? (I believe you have made some similar suggestions already). |
|||
:Right now I am just asking for in-principle agreement/objection to see if a quick and easy resolution is possible. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 16:22, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
|||
Latest revision as of 01:25, 29 November 2022
RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage
[edit]Greetings,
For your information, a RfC discussion has been initiated (One point in discussion is in relation to discussion topic Child marriage in India which you were previously involved in editing.)
Request for Comment has been started @ Talk:Narendra Modi#RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage
Thanks for inputs
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 15:35, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message
[edit] | Hello! Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add |
Language section edits to satavahana dynasty
[edit]Desh language was original spoken language of Andhra tribe migrated from Yamuna River bank around 600BCE. It's Apabhramsa form is Paishachi language which is purely literary. Gunadya scripted Bruhatkatha in Paishachi. Desh Language got dissolved in Telugu Language when Andhras settled themselves in east coast near Amaravati,their second capital. Desh has no script to write. In your edit made to Language section of Satavahana Dynasty you have mentioned that satavahana later kings had their names in both Prakrit and Desi(It is Desh not Desi) Desh disapperaed pretty soon once it started getting dissolved in Telugu, much before 1 st Century BCE. Desh(Paishachi) is Indo Aryan, Indo European family language It is not Dravidian language like Telugu(Local Naga Yaksha tribes spoke),Tamil of ancient times. Today's Telugu has essence of Desh(dissolved language),Prakrit,Pali and Sanskrit and widely varies from Tamil.
Please read "AndhraDarshini" Telugu language book published by Vishalandhra Prachuranaalayam ,Vijayawada in 1954. Page 28 for languages
S V Narasayya, K S Reddy, G RadhaKrishnaMurty, AKRB koteswararao are authors of book.
Pali language was used for Buddhist literature at Satavahana Dynasty. One can find this proof on wikipedia Abhidhammapitaka was written in Pali and read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang for its information. He studied Abhidhammapitaka at Amaravati and taught Mahayana Buddhism to local monks in 7 th century. I hope fact check will help improve content in Language section. DeepakMalhar (talk) 20:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
[edit]Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)