Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pure Pwnage (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions

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ATTENTION!

If you came to this page because a friend asked you to do so, or because you saw a message on an online forum asking you to do so, please note that this is not a vote on whether or not this article is to be deleted. It is not true that everyone who shows up to a deletion discussion gets an automatic vote just for showing up.

The deletion process is designed to determine the consensus of opinion of Wikipedia editors; for this reason comments from users whose histories do not show experience with or contributions to Wikipedia are traditionally given less weight and may be discounted entirely.

You are not barred from participating in the discussion, no matter how new you may be, and we welcome reasoned opinions and rational discussion based upon our policies and guidelines. However, ballot stuffing is pointless. There is no ballot to stuff. This is not a vote, and decisions are not made upon weight of numbers alone. Please review Wikipedia:Deletion policy for more information.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep, sock or no sock. Mailer Diablo 06:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pure Pwnage

Non notable fan cruft. waffle iron 05:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

List of Pure Pwnage episodes

Delete as non-notable, Alexa ranking of 34,591 [1] Weak keep per Swatjester's comments --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 05:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, WP:CRUFT. Royboy crashfan 06:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Very highly notable amongst the first person shooter community. I say this with credentials as a member of the web-based and print computer gaming community (I was an editor at Strategy Player Magazine, and editor at PS3vault.com). ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Google hits: http://www.google.com/search?hs=KCK&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22pure+pwnage%22&btnG=Search something like 284,000, including many notable tech blogs and gamign websites. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Actually, 271,000 results to be exact --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 06:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment We must be using different googles: my link shows 284,000. Oh well. give or take 5% it's still notable. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 07:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Safesearch, lol. --Rory0 96 17:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep Regardless of what the show is or how people feel about it as a fan people deserve the right to know about what they like. —This unsigned comment was added by Kennansoft (talk • contribs) .

Of course, but that does not mean everything with fans belongs on Wikipedia… (not that I'm implying that Pure Pwnage doesn't belong) --HeteroZellous 04:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Pure Pwnage and merge the episode list into it. It seems somewhat notable, and an Alexa of 34k isn't too bad. I would like to see more references of its notability in the article, though, such as the major tech blogs and gaming sites mentioned by Jester. (Note: While I'm not a gamer, I've watched a few episodes of this in the past, and I feel somewhat ashamed about it...) --Kinu ^t/_c 07:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep The show is very popular, and many people go to the Wikipedia entry for clarification of terms that they use. The Scene is not voted for deletion, and Pure Pwnage is most likely more popular. The reason stated above, Non notable fan cruft is incorrect, it is notable, and is not fan cruft. --robz0r 09:05, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. The show is very popular in my opinion. Check out the real second nomination: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pure Pwnage 2. --HeteroZellous 09:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. Anyone seen the eBay auction for a piece of Jeremy's hair? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7601131682

it's up to US $4,150.00 with a total of 98 bids, and over 224,000 hits. For a lock of the main characters HAIR!? If this is anything to go by, the show has more than a few fans, and is definately notable. Silent War 09:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, although I have to admit I haven't read the article yet, therefore don't know the quality, Pure Pwnage is too big a phenomenon not to be in Wikipedia. If it's deleted I'm sure people will want to re-add it within no time. Retodon8 10:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, this is the third time someone's nominated this for deletion. We've already established the Alexa ranking invalid, as Pure Pwnage is a webisode, not a website.66.157.30.31 10:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Fairly notable within certain communities. Alexa rating doesn't appear relevant in this case. Chairman S. ^Talk 11:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is decently popular. No real need to merge the list in either. kotepho 11:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Low alexa rating due to availabity of webisodes through bittorrent without need to visit site —This unsigned comment was added by 219.78.119.182 (talk • contribs) .

Keep - Pure Pwnage is very popular worldwide and too many people watch it to consider this for deletion. The page is a great point of reference for people interested in today's gaming culture. --CharlieA 14:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This user has 37 contributions [2] ---J.Smith 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

^^^^^^^Meaning what? Is my opinion less valid than yours? What gives you the right to undermine my opinion?--CharlieA 23:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh duh.com, nooob. only liek users with > 999999989 edits are allowed to vote. roflol noob. --Anaraug 02:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - extremely notable, popular. -- infinity0 16:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - My initial impression from reading the articles were that they contained so many esoteric details and were not linked from any other articles. It seemed like someone was using Wikipedia as a fan site. I'd still like to see the articles paired down or the List deleted. --waffle iron 17:10, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Appendum to my comment - I think it's probably worth contrasting Pure Pwnage to something like Mega 64. It has a DVD out and worked with Ubisoft on projects. This article is short and to the point and their list is a real list, not a supplimental article. --waffle iron 17:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Commment Response*Sorry? It hasn't stopped people on this site before. While series like Star Wars and Dr. Who are amidtablly more notable than Pure Pwnage, the fact is they have larger articles and sub articles than World War II on this site (which, is funny since the first has its own Wiki). This goes for a whole bunch of other series as well. Like for example, before I would get fansubs for Gundam Seed Destiny, I'd check here first for the spoiler's. And they were fairly extensive. So, unless you are going to attempt to be a great champion of the wiki and nominate every single one of those article for deletion, I think the PP article is fine and short in comparion.BrendantheJedi 04:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

comment response I hadn't thought of that but that's a great idea. Especially since I LOVE mega 64. Let me know if anything comes of that, I'll be glad to help out⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 18:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as fancruft of nn site. I am genuinely impressed by how many keep votes this has garnered, although some must surely be from enthusiasts. Eusebeus 17:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I went though and looked a about 6 people's number of contributions... 5 of the 6 had more then 100. 3 had more then 1000. 1 had more then 5000. ---J.Smith 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What Does that have to do with anything? The last time a I checked, this was encyclopedia could edit. So if if 20 people with only mild contributions vote to keep this, we are somehow viewed lower in opinion to one man with 1000? You stop focusing on the rep of the poster, and look more the value of the post itself. Even if someone with 2 trillion contributions says something totally stupid, that statement is still foolish. BrendantheJedi 04:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with an abnormally low edit count is (purportedly) less likely to be knowledgeable about wikipedia policies and/or a sockpuppet used to vote multiple times. This isn't a vote anyways and only their 'vote' is discounted, not their view, opinion, or evidence. Of course, I am one of the people in the 100-999 range of edits under this user so take that however you will. If you care to know I have only heard of this in passing and only seen one episode. It was the googles that did it for me. kotepho 05:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But, you could be a long time lurker. Also sometimes I've made edits not with my account. In any case I know what cruft is, but I also know as long as their is at least 125 articles about mobiles suits, I don't think the cruft is well enfornced. I know wiki prefers to look at itself as encyclopedic, but this in an encyclopedia that be edited on the internet. Because of the demographic, the articles on this site may lean towards geekish followings. They can only go after smaller things like Pure Pwnage on occasion, since they still feel the futile need to look sophisticated. But we all know if they tried to cut down on articles on Star Wars, they attept would most certainly fail (unless of course it was a character article about obscure person in the fandom).-BrendantheJedi 17:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a site; Pure Pwnage is a popular webisode series. By the way, how are the numbers of contributions made by these users relevant to this discussion? --HeteroZellous 02:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for various reasons listed above. ---J.Smith 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. This page is possibly a better reference for the show than the show's own website. What's the harm in keeping it? Bchabala2 23:25, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is the kind of stuff that makes me think that Wikipedia is doomed. It's too new a subject, and only time will tell if this is the start of a popular trend or just a flash in the pan. Meanwhile, this article only serves as an advertisement and an introduction to some painfully stupid in-jokes. Brian G. Crawford, the so-called "Nancy Grace of AfD" 23:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The first episode was released in May 2004, almost two years ago. Honestly, is that really too new? --HeteroZellous 01:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Too new a subject? Wikipedia is so useful because it is quick-- "wiki wiki." Moreover, how exactly does deleting a largly contributed article benifit Wikipedia? Deleting content is an awful way to promote the effort-- and I can't see how any of the arguments for deletion have justified such a "last resortish" kind of move.66.157.30.31 13:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I seem to have forgotten to add the comparison details in my earlier vote, so here goes: Not only was there an already large fanbase during the previous AfD almost three months ago, but it's grown considerably since with another episode released. The <200K for Google has jumped to around 300K (I just picked up 312K), Alexa ranking's jumped from 39K to 34K, his then-month-old MySpace has gone from 3K friends to almost 10K[3], and the forum members of 11K to 15K.[4] And presently, a TeamSpeak chat with the crew will be held on Saturday; I expect 300+ participants like it's happened before. Also, as said above, a lock of the protagonist's hair is going for more than US$4,000, now with over 100 bids and 225K hits, even after a bunch of relatively high bids were taken down for more safety from fake ones.[5] --HeteroZellous 01:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep. Extremely notable, if I recall accurately, there are already plans for the show to be picked up by a television network. Just about everyone I know has at least heard of it. --Anaraug 02:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep.Highly notable series. Well talked about. I mean this arguably as well noted as YTMND or Penny Arcade. I don't see anyone deleting those. The FPS Doug video is reason enough. BrendantheJedi 04:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per others. Arbusto 06:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
BOOM HEADSHOT to all delete votes ;-) but seriously, strong keep. Linuxbeak (drop me a line) 07:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep I don't know a single male aged 14-18 who does not know of Pure Pwnage. To say that it's not notable is simply naive. 25 March 2006 —This unsigned comment was added by 144.132.206.106 (talk • contribs) .
Strong Keep Even if you did delete it someone would probably put it back (me) selmaelbeyati 10:02 25 March 2006
Strong Keep Boom Headshot! ;) michael ^talk 13:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Popular and long-running show. The episodes list contains indispensible trivia, but should be merged into the main entry JVC 21:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
Strong keep considering how long the article is, and the fact they're working on a tv show, plus other reasons above. Wikioogle=world take over 23:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep keep it, its a very important online show, they have popularized and invented such phrases as "Pwned"(or "pwn"), "n00b" and most importantly "BOOM HEADSHOT!!" Thrawst 18:19, 27 March 2006 (UTC) —This unsigned comment was added by Thrawst (talk • contribs) .[reply]
Keep It's huge in the gaming community, and has created some catchphrases, too.... keep the main article, and merge the episode list with the main article. -Outsidethewall 07:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep Its articles like this that make wikipedia worth coming too as i see wikipedia made up off two parts. Valuable historicle information that one would deem necessary for a regular encyclopedia and also valuable trivia for things such as this, Pure Pwnage. Keep this page, it contains more info than the actual webpage. -147.10.248.213 10:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per SWATjester. --Rory0 96 17:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - This show is extremely popular. Its also through this article that I discovered that Jeremy had a myspace and Tagi actually had a blog --M1xmast3r 18:58, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - There are over a million articles in wikipedia, there is no reason why this has to be deleted. --Behun 05:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - Over 20,000 downloads of their last video. I consider this article to be extremely notable. --JamieHughes
Seriously, I know lots of people who have watched this (besides myself). Trust me this isn't the cruft you're loooking for, this is. (Keep btw) Broken Segue 13:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete per nom. Ardenn 17:31, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - It's a popular series. GeorgeBills 07:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - Popular Series - provides insight into terms and definitions - Fancruft debatable - and even if fancruft - not poorly written, which is criteria for deletion. - Quote from It is true that things labeled fancruft are often deleted from Wikipedia. This is primarily due to the fact that things labeled as fancruft are often poorly written, unreferenced, unwikified, and POV - all things that lead to deletion. --wickahead 02:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Super Strong Keep - What the heck?? This is an extremely notable site, I go to check in on it today and find it on AFD?? Staxringold 23:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I found this page because I was linking to it from another article (Chicken Fried Radio). Merge the episode list into the page and keep.
Über Strong Keep ;-) - There are many good reasons listed above. It's very popular with many computer gaming communities, it's been around for quite a while now, and the amount of content is quite acceptable compared to the collections of pages for other shows on Wikipedia. There is no good reason to delete it, nor merge the episode list. Jasp 02:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - This is a popular web series, similar to things like Red vs Blue or any of the multitude of gaming webcomics. Fancruft may or may not exist, but the article is valid and should be kept. Bowmanjj 03:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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+<div class="boilerplate metadata" id="AfdAnon" style="background:#fcc; border:1px solid #c00; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;">
+{| <!-- this is {{AfdAnons}} - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:AfdAnons -->
+|[[Image:Nuvola_apps_important.svg|59px]]
+|&nbsp;
+|<big>'''ATTENTION!'''</big>
+If you came to this page because {{{1|a friend asked you to do so, or because you saw a message on an online forum asking you to do so}}}, please note that this is ''not a vote'' on whether or not this article is to be deleted. It is '''not true''' that everyone who shows up to a deletion discussion gets an automatic vote just for showing up.
+The deletion process is designed to determine the consensus of opinion of Wikipedia editors; for this reason comments from users whose histories do not show experience with or contributions to Wikipedia are traditionally given less weight and may be discounted entirely.
+You are not barred from participating in the discussion, no matter how new you may be, and we welcome reasoned opinions and rational discussion based upon our [[Wikipedia:Policy|policies and guidelines]]. However, ballot stuffing is pointless. There is no ballot to stuff. This is not a vote, and decisions are not made upon weight of numbers alone.  Please review [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy]] for more information.
+|}</div>
+<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.  ''
+<!--
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result of the debate was '''keep''', sock or no sock. [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] 06:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 ===[[Pure Pwnage]]===
 Non notable fan cruft. [[User:William Graham|waffle iron]] 05:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 4: / Line 25: @@
 :* [[List of Pure Pwnage episodes]]
-*<s>'''Delete''' as non-notable, Alexa ranking of 34,591 [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?q=Pure+Pwnage&url=http://www.purepwnage.com/]</s> '''Weak keep''' per Swatjester's comments --[[User:TBC|<font color="gray">T</font><font color="blue">B</font><font color="purple">C</font>]][[Image:Confused-tpvgames.gif|18px|]]<small><sup>[[User talk:TBC|<font color="gray">???</font>]]  [[Special:Contributions/TBC|<font color="blue">???</font>]] [[Special:Emailuser/TBC|<font color="purple">???</font>]]</sup></small> 05:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+*<s>'''Delete''' as non-notable, Alexa ranking of 34,591 [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?q=Pure+Pwnage&url=http://www.purepwnage.com/]</s> '''Weak keep''' per Swatjester's comments --[[User:TBC|<span style="color:gray;">T</span><span style="color:blue;">B</span><span style="color:purple;">C</span>]][[Image:Confused-tpvgames.gif|18px|]]<small><sup>[[User talk:TBC|<span style="color:gray;">???</span>]]  [[Special:Contributions/TBC|<span style="color:blue;">???</span>]] [[Special:Emailuser/TBC|<span style="color:purple;">???</span>]]</sup></small> 05:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''', [[WP:CRUFT]]. [[User:Royboycrashfan|<font color="#4169E1">'''Roy'''</font>]][[User talk:Royboycrashfan|<font color="#FF0000">boy</font>]][[Craig Manning|cr]]<nowiki>ash</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Royboycrashfan|<font color="#FFFFFF">fan</font>]] [[Image:Flag of Texas.svg|30px]] 06:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''', [[WP:CRUFT]]. [[User:Royboycrashfan|<span style="color:#4169E1;">'''Roy'''</span>]][[User talk:Royboycrashfan|<span style="color:#FF0000;">boy</span>]][[Craig Manning|cr]]<nowiki>ash</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Royboycrashfan|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">fan</span>]] [[Image:Flag of Texas.svg|30px]] 06:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-* '''Strong keep''' Very highly notable amongst the first person shooter community. I say this with credentials as a member of the web-based and print computer gaming community (I was an editor at Strategy Player Magazine, and editor at PS3vault.com).  [[User:Swatjester|<font color="red">&rArr;</font>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<font face="Euclid Fraktur"><font color="black">SWAT</font><font color="goldenrod">Jester</font></font>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 06:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+* '''Strong keep''' Very highly notable amongst the first person shooter community. I say this with credentials as a member of the web-based and print computer gaming community (I was an editor at Strategy Player Magazine, and editor at PS3vault.com).  [[User:Swatjester|<span style="color:red;">&rArr;</span>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<span style="font-family:Euclid Fraktur;"><span style="color:black;">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod;">Jester</span></span>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 06:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-* '''Comment''' Google hits: http://www.google.com/search?hs=KCK&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22pure+pwnage%22&btnG=Search something like 284,000, including many notable tech blogs and gamign websites. [[User:Swatjester|<font color="red">&rArr;</font>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<font face="Euclid Fraktur"><font color="black">SWAT</font><font color="goldenrod">Jester</font></font>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 06:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+* '''Comment''' Google hits: http://www.google.com/search?hs=KCK&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22pure+pwnage%22&btnG=Search something like 284,000, including many notable tech blogs and gamign websites. [[User:Swatjester|<span style="color:red;">&rArr;</span>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<span style="font-family:Euclid Fraktur;"><span style="color:black;">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod;">Jester</span></span>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 06:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-::*'''Comment''' Actually, 271,000 results to be exact --[[User:TBC|<font color="gray">T</font><font color="blue">B</font><font color="purple">C</font>]][[Image:Confused-tpvgames.gif|18px|]]<small><sup>[[User talk:TBC|<font color="gray">???</font>]]  [[Special:Contributions/TBC|<font color="blue">???</font>]] [[Special:Emailuser/TBC|<font color="purple">???</font>]]</sup></small> 06:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Actually, 271,000 results to be exact --[[User:TBC|<span style="color:gray;">T</span><span style="color:blue;">B</span><span style="color:purple;">C</span>]][[Image:Confused-tpvgames.gif|18px|]]<small><sup>[[User talk:TBC|<span style="color:gray;">???</span>]]  [[Special:Contributions/TBC|<span style="color:blue;">???</span>]] [[Special:Emailuser/TBC|<span style="color:purple;">???</span>]]</sup></small> 06:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-:::::*'''Comment''' We must be using different googles: my link shows 284,000. Oh well. give or take 5% it's still notable. [[User:Swatjester|<font color="red">&rArr;</font>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<font face="Euclid Fraktur"><font color="black">SWAT</font><font color="goldenrod">Jester</font></font>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 07:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+***'''Comment''' We must be using different googles: my link shows 284,000. Oh well. give or take 5% it's still notable. [[User:Swatjester|<span style="color:red;">&rArr;</span>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<span style="font-family:Euclid Fraktur;"><span style="color:black;">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod;">Jester</span></span>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 07:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+****[[Safesearch]], lol. --<s>[[User:Rory096|<i style="color:orange;">Rory</i>]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">0</span>]][[User talk:Rory096|<b style="color:orange;">96</b>]]</s> 17:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
+* '''Strong Keep''' Regardless of what the show is or how people feel about it as a fan people deserve the right to know about what they like. <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Kennansoft|Kennansoft]] ([[User talk:Kennansoft|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kennansoft|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
-*'''Weak keep''' [[Pure Pwnage]] and '''merge''' the episode list into it.  It seems somewhat notable, and an Alexa of 34k isn't too bad.  I would like to see more references of its notability in the article, though, such as the major tech blogs and gaming sites mentioned by Jester. (Note: While I'm not a gamer, I've watched a few episodes of this in the past, and I feel somewhat ashamed about it...) --<font face="Book Antiqua">[[User:Kinu|<font color="blue"><strong>Kinu</strong></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Kinu|<font color="red">''t''</font>]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Kinu|<font color="red">''c''</font>]]</sub></font> 07:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+:: Of course, but that does not mean everything with fans belongs on Wikipedia&hellip; (not that I'm implying that ''Pure Pwnage'' doesn't belong) --[[User:HeteroZellous|HeteroZellous]] 04:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Weak keep''' [[Pure Pwnage]] and '''merge''' the episode list into it.  It seems somewhat notable, and an Alexa of 34k isn't too bad.  I would like to see more references of its notability in the article, though, such as the major tech blogs and gaming sites mentioned by Jester. (Note: While I'm not a gamer, I've watched a few episodes of this in the past, and I feel somewhat ashamed about it...) --<span style="font-family:Book Antiqua;">[[User:Kinu|<strong style="color:blue;">Kinu</strong>]] [[User_talk:Kinu|<sup style="color:red;">''t''</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Kinu|<sub style="color:red;">''c''</sub>]]</span> 07:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 *'''Strong Keep''' The show is very popular, and many people go to the Wikipedia entry for clarification of terms that they use. [[The Scene (miniseries)|The Scene]] is not voted for deletion, and [[Pure Pwnage]] is most likely more popular. The reason stated above, Non notable fan cruft is incorrect, it is notable, and is not fan cruft. --[[User:Robert McKay|robz0r]] 09:05, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 25: / Line 50: @@
 *'''Keep''', this is the ''third'' time someone's nominated this for deletion. We've already established the Alexa ranking invalid, as ''Pure Pwnage'' is a webisode, not a website.[[User:66.157.30.31|66.157.30.31]] 10:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-*'''Weak keep''' Fairly notable within certain communities. Alexa rating doesn't appear relevant in this case. <font color="#08457E">[[User:Chairman S.|Chairman S.]]</font> <sup><font color="#CD5700*">[[User talk:Chairman S.|Talk]]</font></sup> 11:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Weak keep''' Fairly notable within certain communities. Alexa rating doesn't appear relevant in this case. [[User:Chairman S.|<span style="color:#08457E;">Chairman S.</span>]] [[User talk:Chairman S.|<sup style="color:#CD5700;">Talk</sup>]] 11:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' It is decently popular.  No real need to merge the list in either. [[User:Kotepho|kotepho]] 11:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' Low alexa rating due to availabity of webisodes through bittorrent without need to visit site
+*'''Keep''' Low alexa rating due to availabity of webisodes through bittorrent without need to visit site <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:219.78.119.182|219.78.119.182]] ([[User talk:219.78.119.182|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/219.78.119.182|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 '''Keep''' - Pure Pwnage is very popular worldwide and too many people watch it to consider this for deletion. The page is a great point of reference for people interested in today's gaming culture. --[[User:CharlieA|CharlieA]] 14:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 :''This user has 37 contributions'' [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits?dbname=enwiki_p&user=CharlieA] ---[[User:J.smith|J.Smith]] 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 36: / Line 61: @@
 :*'''Appendum to my comment''' - I think it's probably worth contrasting Pure Pwnage to something like [[Mega 64]]. It has a DVD out and worked with [[Ubisoft]] on projects. This article is short and to the point and their list is a real list, not a supplimental article. --[[User:William Graham|waffle iron]] 17:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 :*'''Commment Response'''*Sorry? It hasn't stopped people on this site before. While series like Star Wars and Dr. Who are amidtablly more notable than Pure Pwnage, the fact is they have larger articles and sub articles than World War II on this site (which, is funny since the first has its own Wiki). This goes for a whole bunch of other series as well. Like for example, before I would get fansubs for Gundam Seed Destiny, I'd check here first for the spoiler's. And they were fairly extensive. So, unless you are going to attempt to be a great champion of the wiki and nominate every single one of those article for deletion, I think the PP article is fine and short in comparion.[[User:BrendantheJedi|BrendantheJedi]] 04:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
-:::*'''comment response''' I hadn't thought of that but that's a great idea. Especially since I LOVE mega 64. Let me know if anything comes of that, I'll be glad to help out[[User:Swatjester|<font color="red">&rArr;</font>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<font face="Euclid Fraktur"><font color="black">SWAT</font><font color="goldenrod">Jester</font></font>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 18:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
+:::*'''comment response''' I hadn't thought of that but that's a great idea. Especially since I LOVE mega 64. Let me know if anything comes of that, I'll be glad to help out[[User:Swatjester|<span style="color:red;">&rArr;</span>]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|<span style="font-family:Euclid Fraktur;"><span style="color:black;">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod;">Jester</span></span>]] [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]] [[Special:Contributions/Swatjester|<small><sup>Ready</sup></small>]]  [[RSTA|<small>Aim</small>]]  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Armed_Forces|<small><sub>Fire!</sub></small>]] 18:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 *'''Delete''' as fancruft of nn site. I am genuinely impressed by how many keep votes this has garnered, although some must surely be from enthusiasts. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] 17:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 :I went though and looked a about 6 people's number of contributions... 5 of the 6 had more then 100.  3 had more then 1000. 1 had more then 5000. ---[[User:J.smith|J.Smith]] 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 ::What Does that have to do with anything? The last time a I checked, this was encyclopedia could edit. So if if 20 people with only mild contributions vote to keep this, we are somehow viewed lower in opinion to one man with 1000? You stop focusing on the rep of the poster, and look more the value of the post itself. Even if someone with 2 trillion contributions says something totally stupid, that statement is still foolish. [[User:BrendantheJedi|BrendantheJedi]] 04:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 :::Someone with an abnormally low edit count is (purportedly) less likely to be knowledgeable about wikipedia policies and/or a sockpuppet used to vote multiple times.  This isn't a vote anyways and only their 'vote' is discounted, not their view, opinion, or evidence.  Of course, I am one of the people in the 100-999 range of edits under this user so take that however you will.  If you care to know I have only heard of this in passing and only seen one episode.  It was the googles that did it for me.  [[User:Kotepho|kotepho]] 05:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
+::::But, you could be a long time lurker. Also sometimes I've made edits not with my account. In any case I know what cruft is, but I also know as long as their is at least 125 articles about mobiles suits, I don't think the cruft is well enfornced. I know wiki prefers to look at itself as encyclopedic, but this in an encyclopedia that be edited on the internet. Because of the demographic, the articles on this site may lean towards geekish followings. They can only go after smaller things like Pure Pwnage on occasion, since they still feel the futile need to look sophisticated. But we all know if they tried to cut down on articles on Star Wars, they attept would most certainly fail (unless of course it was a character article about obscure person in the fandom).-[[User:BrendantheJedi|BrendantheJedi]] 17:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 :This is not a site; ''Pure Pwnage'' is a popular webisode series.  By the way, how are the numbers of contributions made by these users relevant to this discussion? --[[User:HeteroZellous|HeteroZellous]] 02:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 48: / Line 74: @@
 *'''Delete.'''  This is the kind of stuff that makes me think that Wikipedia is doomed.  It's too new a subject, and only time will tell if this is the start of a popular trend or just a flash in the pan.  Meanwhile, this article only serves as an advertisement and an introduction to some painfully stupid in-jokes. [[User:Brian G. Crawford|Brian G. Crawford, the so-called &quot;Nancy Grace of AfD&quot;]] 23:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 :: The first episode was released in May 2004, almost two years ago.  Honestly, is that really too new? --[[User:HeteroZellous|HeteroZellous]] 01:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
-:::Too new a subject? Wikipedia is so useful because it is quick-- "wiki wiki." Moreover, how exactly does deleting a largly contributed article benifit Wikipedia? Deleting content is an awful way to promote the effort-- and I can't see how any of the arguments for deletion have justified such a move.
+:::Too new a subject? Wikipedia is so useful because it is quick-- "wiki wiki." Moreover, how exactly does deleting a largly contributed article benifit Wikipedia? Deleting content is an awful way to promote the effort-- and I can't see how any of the arguments for deletion have justified such a "last resortish" kind of move.[[User:66.157.30.31|66.157.30.31]] 13:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * '''Comment.''' I seem to have forgotten to add the comparison details in my earlier vote, so here goes: Not only was there an already large fanbase during the previous AfD almost three months ago, but it's grown considerably since with another episode released.  The <200K for Google has jumped to around 300K (I just picked up 312K), Alexa ranking's jumped from 39K to 34K, his then-month-old MySpace has gone from 3K friends to almost 10K[http://www.myspace.com/teh_real_jeremy], and the forum members of 11K to 15K.[http://www.purepwnage.com/forums/]  And presently, a TeamSpeak chat with the crew will be held on Saturday; I expect 300+ participants like it's happened before.  Also, as said above, a lock of the protagonist's hair is going for more than US$4,000, now with over 100 bids and 225K hits, even after a bunch of relatively high bids were taken down for more safety from fake ones.[http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7601131682] --[[User:HeteroZellous|HeteroZellous]] 01:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * '''Strong Keep.'''  Extremely notable, if I recall accurately, there are already plans for the show to be picked up by a television network.  Just about everyone I know has at least <i>heard</i> of it. --[[User:Anaraug|Anaraug]] 02:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
-*'''Strong Keep.'''Highly notable series. Well talked about. I mean this arguably as well noted as [[YTMND]] or [[Penny Arcade]].  I don't see anyone deleting those. The FPS Doug video is reason enough. [[User:BrendantheJedi|BrendantheJedi]] 04:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep.'''Highly notable series. Well talked about. I mean this arguably as well noted as [[YTMND]] or [[Penny Arcade (webcomic)|Penny Arcade]].  I don't see anyone deleting those. The FPS Doug video is reason enough. [[User:BrendantheJedi|BrendantheJedi]] 04:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 *'''Delete''' per others.  [[User:Arbustoo|Arbusto]] 06:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 *'''BOOM HEADSHOT''' to all delete votes ;-) but seriously, '''strong keep'''. [[User:Linuxbeak|Linuxbeak]] (drop me a [[User_talk:Linuxbeak|line]]) 07:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
-*'''Strong Keep''' I don't know a single male aged 14-18 who does not know of Pure Pwnage. To say that it's not notable is simply naive. 25 March 2006
+*'''Strong Keep''' I don't know a single male aged 14-18 who does not know of Pure Pwnage. To say that it's not notable is simply naive. 25 March 2006 <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:144.132.206.106|144.132.206.106]] ([[User talk:144.132.206.106|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/144.132.206.106|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 *'''Strong Keep''' Even if you did delete it someone would probably put it back (me) [[user:selmaelbeyati|selmaelbeyati]] 10:02 25 March 2006
 *'''Strong Keep''' Boom Headshot! ;) [[User:beneaththelandslide|michael]] <sup>[[User_talk:beneaththelandslide|talk]]</sup> 13:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' Popular and long-running show. The episodes list contains indispensible trivia, but should be merged into the main entry [[User:JVC|JVC]] 21:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
+*'''Strong keep''' considering how long the article is, and the fact they're working on a tv show, plus other reasons above. [[User:Wikioogle=world take over|Wikioogle=world take over]] 23:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' keep it, its a very important online show, they have popularized and invented such phrases as "Pwned"(or "pwn"), "n00b" and most importantly "BOOM HEADSHOT!!" [[User:Thrawst|Thrawst]] 18:19, 27 March 2006 (UTC) <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Thrawst|Thrawst]] ([[User talk:Thrawst|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Thrawst|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
+*'''Keep''' It's huge in the gaming community, and has created some catchphrases, too.... keep the main article, and merge the episode list with the main article. -Outsidethewall 07:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' Its articles like this that make wikipedia worth coming too as i see wikipedia made up off two parts. Valuable historicle information that one would deem necessary for a regular encyclopedia and also valuable trivia for things such as this, Pure Pwnage. Keep this page, it contains more info than the actual webpage. -[[User:147.10.248.213|147.10.248.213]] 10:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' per SWATjester. --<s>[[User:Rory096|<i style="color:orange;">Rory</i>]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">0</span>]][[User talk:Rory096|<b style="color:orange;">96</b>]]</s> 17:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' - This show is extremely popular. Its also through this article that I discovered that Jeremy had a myspace and Tagi actually had a blog --[[User:M1xmast3r|M1xmast3r]] 18:58, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' - There are over a million articles in wikipedia, there is no reason why this has to be deleted. --[[User:Behun|Behun]] 05:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' - Over 20,000 downloads of their last video. I consider this article to be extremely notable. --[[User:JamieHughes|JamieHughes]]
+*Seriously, I know lots of people who have watched this (besides myself). Trust me this isn't the cruft you're loooking for, [[:Category:Star Wars battles|this is]]. ('''Keep''' btw) [[User:BrokenSegue|''B''roken]][[User talk:BrokenSegue|''S''egue]] 13:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong delete''' per nom. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 17:31, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' - It's a popular series.  [[User:GeorgeBills|GeorgeBills]] 07:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' - Popular Series - provides insight into terms and definitions - Fancruft debatable - and even if fancruft - not poorly written, which is criteria for deletion. - Quote from  It is true that things labeled fancruft are often deleted from Wikipedia. This is primarily due to the fact that things labeled as fancruft are often poorly written, unreferenced, unwikified, and POV - all things that lead to deletion. --[[User:wickahead|wickahead]] 02:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Super Strong Keep''' - What the heck?? This is an extremely notable site, I go to check in on it today and find it on AFD?? [[User:Staxringold|Staxringold]] 23:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' - I found this page because I was linking to it from another article ([[Chicken Fried Radio]]).  Merge the episode list into the page and keep.
+*'''Über Strong Keep''' ;-) - There are many good reasons listed above. It's very popular with many computer gaming communities, it's been around for quite a while now, and the amount of content is quite acceptable compared to the collections of pages for other shows on Wikipedia. There is no good reason to delete it, nor merge the episode list. [[User:Jaspp|Jasp]] 02:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
+*'''Strong Keep''' - This is a popular web series, similar to things like [[Red vs Blue]] or any of the multitude of gaming webcomics.  Fancruft may or may not exist, but the article is valid and should be kept. [[User:Bowmanjj|Bowmanjj]] 03:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>