Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dick Donato (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Chaser - T 23:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Dick Donato

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Dick Donato
• Articles for deletion/Dick Donato (2nd nomination)

Dick Donato (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Big Brother 8 contestant of questionable notability. Closing admin of the original AFD, as well as deletion review, determined that the procedural problems during that AFD meant that a fair hearing was not had and the consensus therein may not represent community consensus. Restored for consideration afresh, this time without redirecting or detagging the article during the AFD discussion. So, is he notable by Wikipedia's standards for article inclusion? GRBerry 01:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete / Re-redirect: Dick Donato has a complete bio on the main BB8 Page. There was a redirect to this but when this page was created, the redirect was obviously removed. This page should be deleted and the redirect reapplied. The only thing consisting on the page in question is duplicate (Copy & Paste) of information from his bio on Big Brother 8 (US)#Dick. Dick has done absolutely nothing notable outside of the show. Also, before people even say "Well other Big Brother winners have pages, so Dick should have one too", please don't even say that. 5 out of the other 7 winners have notability other than being a Big Brother winner (notability like numerous TV appearances not related to Big Brother). Other people will say "Dick might..[do something notable].." , and that fails WP:CRYSTAL so don't go there either. As you can probably tell, I really believe this page should have been deleted by the last AfD discussion, and it is unfortunate that that discussion was conducted improperly and therefore invalid. - Rjd0060 02:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. With redirect seems appropriate. Renee 02:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The article does have content that's not in the BB8 article -- not a lot, but enough that shouldn't be in the BB8 article. Maybe he won't do anything additionally notable, but we can't know. To reject on the basis on what he hasn't done yet would be an odd kind of crystal balling. He is presently notable because his big win on Big Brother is a current event. The original AfD was handled so horribly with people removing the AfD tag for four days, pronouncing it closed when they weren't admins and therefore had no such authority, plus his notability changed mid-AfD. He went from contestant to winner. This is a big deal. If national spelling bee champions can get their own articles, Big Brother winners certainly can. Yeah, I know (other stuff exists). Deleting him by himself is inappropriate. Either take on the issue and delete all of these winners at the same time, or let this one exist. Precedent matters. And now, let's let some new opinions weigh in on the matter. Wryspy 02:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Reply: Which crystal ball policy are you reading? Obviously not the correct one because if you look at the correct one it says "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place.". Are we really sure that he is going to do something notable outside of the house? Where are your references to this? WP:CRYSTAL also says "Articles that present extrapolation, speculation, and "future history" are original research and therefore inappropriate. " To me, your argument to keep might fall under that "future history" and be considered original research. - Rjd0060 14:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep as winning a notable reality TV show is itself notable. For those complaining that it is just a duplicate of his section of the BB article, the solution to that is rather simple; trim the BB entry to a paragraph-sized blurb, with a "see also" link to his main page. Tarc 03:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Winners of many other reality shows have their own pages what makes Dick different?johnmen1 3:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

— johnmen1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at UTC timestamp (UTC).

Reply: WP:WAX could explain it better. - Rjd0060 14:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - I'll have to change my vote since the last AFD, seeing as he won the show, thus making him notable. All the other winners have pages, but I wouldn't mind if all were nominated for deletion for consistancy... As it is however, I'd have to say Keep... Spawn Man 03:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

*This discussion should be immediately closed as this article (Dick Donato) has been nominated AFD along with a group of other nominees' See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eddie McGee - Rjd0060 03:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Your pet peeve against reality tv winners doesn't override this AfD, which a) came as a result of a DRV overturn of the original redirect, and b) was created before yours. Tarc 03:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

  • The individual discussion started first, and individual discussions are preferred to group noms when the issues have the potential to be different. So it should not have been included in the group nom, and has now been removed therefrom. Please, no more procedural irregularities. GRBerry 13:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for that. I was misinformed and/or misunderstood. Thanks for correcting it, GRBerry. - Rjd0060 14:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete He won a second tier reality show. That's not really all that notable. If he parlays that into something else, than we can have an article on him. AniMate 08:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

  How is a prime-time network television show, one with 39 versions and permutations spanning the globe, considered "second tier" ? Tarc 16:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: I would like to reiterate that he could do something more notable in the future. However keeping the page until he does, well, that is a problem when it comes to the real WP:CRYSTAL (not the one Wryspy must be reading). - Rjd0060 14:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - As explained up there. BigCoop 09:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Sorry, but that is not really helpful. This is not a ballot and there are no "votes", so your "input" (or lack of) would have had the same effect if you hadn't even added it to the page. - Rjd0060 18:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: - I never said this was a vote. Would you like me to copy and paste what was already said multiple times!? So next time have a lack of attitude. User:BigCoop 16:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Reply: Well, first of all, you (and other editors) picked up on some attitude in my last comment. That is unfortunate. I really didn't mean to have one. Secondly, I was wrong. I had thought you were referring to the nom's comments when you said "up there". Which is why I mentioned all of that other stuff. Because I am sure you know it is suggested that you don't say "...per nom", which you did not. My mistake. I think I have made my points as far as why I believe this article should be deleted, so I will just let the AfD process run its course. - Rjd0060 18:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. I don't like it. I really don't. But...winner of a reality show on primetime network TV is definitely notable. Smashville 15:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Definitely notable. Currently newsworthy. There's too much information about what a stink he stirred up to crowd all of that into the Big Brother 8 article. What he may or may not do of note later on is irrelevant. Don't second guess the future. He's notable right now. Shoester 18:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep . Is there a shortage of space on Wikipedia? I didn't like the man either; but he is a winner of a very popular reality show watched by millions of people. That does seem notable. RobbChadwick 16:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep A person researching the show will want to know things about those who won, how they did, where they came from, &c. Besides, he is culturally significant. Juppiter 17:12, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep as much as WP:IDONTLIKEIT this person does (obviously) meet our guidelines for notability. Burntsauce 20:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete and Redirect to BB8. No need for an individual entry since he has no notability independent of the show and we have clear policies, the result of extensive discussion, about such instances. Eusebeus 22:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Noteworthy news: Dick Donato has been nominated as Reality Entertainer of the Year in the Fox Reality Really Awards for 2007 against Len Goodman, New York, Sanjaya Malakar, Ant (comedian), and Christopher Knight & Adrianne Curry. FYI: All the other nominees have their own Wikipedia articles. Wryspy 04:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.