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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. '''This page is no longer live.''' Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. <br>The result of the debate was - kept - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 21:09, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

===[[Albany High School]] (moved to [[Albany High School, Georgia]])===
===[[Albany High School]] (moved to [[Albany High School, Georgia]])===
Appears to be being used as a message board/vanity site/school project. At best this page requires significant revision - at worst it is completely irrelevant. [[User:ESkog|ESkog]] 01:12, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Appears to be being used as a message board/vanity site/school project. At best this page requires significant revision - at worst it is completely irrelevant. [[User:ESkog|ESkog]] 01:12, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
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*(Weak) keep and cleanup. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 02:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*(Weak) keep and cleanup. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 02:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)


*'''Move''' to more appropriate name, e.g. [[Albany High School, Albany, Georgia, U.S.A.]], because there is [[Albany, Western Australia]] and numerous examples of [[Georgia]]. Admittedly, there is no Albany High School in Albany, Western Australia, but it has an "Albany Senior High School" and a "North Albany Senior High School" [http://www.albanygateway.com.au/Topic/Education/Schools_and_Colleges/]. [[User:Peter Ellis|Peter Ellis]] 05:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC) ... and on the other side of Australia, in [[Brisbane, Queensland]], there is [http://www.albacreeshs.qld.edu.au/ Albany Creek State High School]. [[User:Peter Ellis|Peter Ellis]] 05:52, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Move''' to more appropriate name, e.g. [[Albany High School, Albany, Georgia, U.S.A.]], because there is [[Albany, Western Australia]] and numerous examples of [[Georgia (U.S. state)|Georgia]]. Admittedly, there is no Albany High School in Albany, Western Australia, but it has an "Albany Senior High School" and a "North Albany Senior High School" [http://www.albanygateway.com.au/Topic/Education/Schools_and_Colleges/]. [[User:Peter Ellis|Peter Ellis]] 05:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC) ... and on the other side of Australia, in [[Brisbane, Queensland]], there is [http://www.albacreeshs.qld.edu.au/ Albany Creek State High School]. [[User:Peter Ellis|Peter Ellis]] 05:52, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' All schools should have an article and this one already has lots of info. [[User:Gillian Tipson|Gillian Tipson]] 06:30, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' All schools should have an article and this one already has lots of info. [[User:Gillian Tipson|Gillian Tipson]] 06:30, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. Probably needs a cleanup. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 07:57, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. Probably needs a cleanup. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 07:57, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
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** '''Comment''' Remember that you can remove out-of-date and hard-to-maintain information from the article *now*. There is no need to delete the article simply because you think some of the content is inappropriate. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 18:18, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
** '''Comment''' Remember that you can remove out-of-date and hard-to-maintain information from the article *now*. There is no need to delete the article simply because you think some of the content is inappropriate. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 18:18, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Condense''' and '''Merge''' with the appropriate geographic or school district article. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 19:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Condense''' and '''Merge''' with the appropriate geographic or school district article. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 19:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' 119-year old school. Needs its [[User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW|BEEFSTEW]] factor jacked up, but surely a school this old has had some notable alums. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: darkgreen" color=#FFC000>&nbsp;BD</font><font style="background: green" color=#FFC000>Abram</font><font style="background: darkgreen" color=#FFC000>son</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|<sup><font color="DarkGreen">thi</font><font color="red"><b>m</b></font><font color="DarkGreen">k</font></sup>]] 20:51, 2005 May 10 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' 119-year old school. Needs its [[User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW|BEEFSTEW]] factor jacked up, but surely a school this old has had some notable alums. --[[User:BD2412/deletion debates|<span style="background: darkgreen; color:#FFC000;">&nbsp;BD</span><span style="background: green; color:#FFC000;">Abram</span><span style="background: darkgreen; color:#FFC000;">son</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412/deletion debates|<sup><span style="color:DarkGreen;">thi</span><span style="color:red;"><b>m</b></span><span style="color:DarkGreen;">k</span></sup>]] 20:51, 2005 May 10 (UTC)
** I've looked at Beefstew, it's utterly pointless. It dismisses many perfectly encyclopedic facts that one would expect to want to know about a school. Whether a school is ancient or new or has notable alumni is beside the point--schools are inherently verifiable and hence encyclopedic. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 22:11, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
** I've looked at Beefstew, it's utterly pointless. It dismisses many perfectly encyclopedic facts that one would expect to want to know about a school. Whether a school is ancient or new or has notable alumni is beside the point--schools are inherently verifiable and hence encyclopedic. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 22:11, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
**'''BECAUSE THE ARTICLE, [[Albany High School, Georgia]] HAS STIRRED SUCH A "CONTROVERSY" AMONG MANY WIKIPEDIA MEMBERS (THAT SEEM TO HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN LOOK FOR INNOCENT PAGES TO DELETE), I HAVE DECIDED THAT IT SHOULD BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY. IT ONLY STARTED AS A SIMPLE SCHOOL PAGE, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS WORTH ALL OF THIS DEBATE FOR SOMETHING SO UMIMPORTANT. SO TO ALL THOSE WIKIPEDIA MEMBERS: YOU CAN BE GLAD YOU STOPPED A "WORTHLESS" PAGE FROM BEING PUBLISHED TO AN ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT HAS AN ALMOST "INFINATE" AMOUNT OF SPACE, AND MAY YOU HAVE A LIFETIME OF HAPPINESS EDITING AND DELETING PAGES THAT IN '''''NO WAY''''' AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY. THANK YOU.''' [[User:Twister3328|Twister3328]]
**'''BECAUSE THE ARTICLE, [[Albany High School, Georgia]] HAS STIRRED SUCH A "CONTROVERSY" AMONG MANY WIKIPEDIA MEMBERS (THAT SEEM TO HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN LOOK FOR INNOCENT PAGES TO DELETE), I HAVE DECIDED THAT IT SHOULD BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY. IT ONLY STARTED AS A SIMPLE SCHOOL PAGE, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS WORTH ALL OF THIS DEBATE FOR SOMETHING SO UMIMPORTANT. SO TO ALL THOSE WIKIPEDIA MEMBERS: YOU CAN BE GLAD YOU STOPPED A "WORTHLESS" PAGE FROM BEING PUBLISHED TO AN ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT HAS AN ALMOST "INFINATE" AMOUNT OF SPACE, AND MAY YOU HAVE A LIFETIME OF HAPPINESS EDITING AND DELETING PAGES THAT IN '''''NO WAY''''' AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY. THANK YOU.''' [[User:Twister3328|Twister3328]]
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*'''Keep'''. I've restored the article from its history. Please don't shout. It's rude and unnecessary. I think you should take a little break now. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 22:02, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I've restored the article from its history. Please don't shout. It's rude and unnecessary. I think you should take a little break now. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 22:02, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' and make room for extra helpings of BEEFSTEW. Hardly a "message board" as the nominator suggests, unless I'm missing something in the edit history. &mdash;[[user:Radman1|'''RaD Man''']] ([[User_talk:Radman1|''talk'']]) 00:27, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' and make room for extra helpings of BEEFSTEW. Hardly a "message board" as the nominator suggests, unless I'm missing something in the edit history. &mdash;[[user:Radman1|'''RaD Man''']] ([[User_talk:Radman1|''talk'']]) 00:27, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' into Albany, Georgia, and '''delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></sup> 05:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' into Albany, Georgia, and '''delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]][[User_talk:Jayjg|<sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk)</sup>]] 05:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. You have to start out with an existing article to actually try to improve it. There are many ways school articles can be valuable, but you have to let them live first in order for those improvements to occur. -- [[User:Natalinasmpf|Natalinasmpf]] 05:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. You have to start out with an existing article to actually try to improve it. There are many ways school articles can be valuable, but you have to let them live first in order for those improvements to occur. -- [[User:Natalinasmpf|Natalinasmpf]] 05:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' BEEFSTEW score of 3 (ACE) (This does include the dreary, out-of-focus photograph). This is probably the longest list of school trivia I've seen. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 09:53, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' BEEFSTEW score of 3 (ACE) (This does include the dreary, out-of-focus photograph). This is probably the longest list of school trivia I've seen. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 09:53, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
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*'''Keep'''. On the contrary, this article has quite a satisfactory [[User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW|BEEFSTEW]] rating of 7.5 (ABCDeFIJ) in its present form. Verifiable and notable graduates include [[Ambassador]] [[Edward "Skip" Gnehm]], [[Paula Deen]], and [[Ray Stevens]]. Statistically speaking, any school with a history greater than 100 years will inevitably have a number of graduates worthy of encyclopedic note. [[User:Bahn Mi|Bahn Mi]] 21:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. On the contrary, this article has quite a satisfactory [[User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW|BEEFSTEW]] rating of 7.5 (ABCDeFIJ) in its present form. Verifiable and notable graduates include [[Ambassador]] [[Edward "Skip" Gnehm]], [[Paula Deen]], and [[Ray Stevens]]. Statistically speaking, any school with a history greater than 100 years will inevitably have a number of graduates worthy of encyclopedic note. [[User:Bahn Mi|Bahn Mi]] 21:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' [[User:Mcfly85|Mcfly85]] 22:51, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' [[User:Mcfly85|Mcfly85]] 22:51, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' [[User:NickCatal|Nick Catalano]] ([[User_talk:NickCatal |Talk]]) 00:59, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' fighting the power! &mdash;[[User:Teknic|<span style="color:green">Teknic</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Teknic|Talk]]/[[Special:Emailuser/Teknic|Mail]]</sup> 03:43, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', but maybe pare down some of the small details in the body of the article. (Disclaimer: A cousin or two of mine might actually have gone to this school.) [[User:Samaritan|Samaritan]] 06:00, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' [[User:GRider/Schoolwatch]] [[User:Klonimus|Klonimus]] 07:02, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' well above the average school article, could use some cleanup/revision ... but otherwise worth keeping. &nbsp;[[User:Alkivar|<span style="color:#FA8605;">'''ALKIVAR'''</span>]][[User_talk:Alkivar|&trade;]][[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 07:08, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' and continue to improve. High schools should not need to establish notability, plus this school has a great deal of verifiable information on it. --[[User:BaronLarf|BaronLarf]] 14:07, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' into Albany, Georgia, and '''delete'''. [[User:Jni05|Jni05]] 17:30, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*Keep [[User:Intrigue|Intrigue]] 18:23, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' This high school is insufficiently noteworthy. [[User:Carmeld1|carmeld1]] 01:47, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', we have been through this.--[[User:Prara|Prem]] 03:24, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' Useless collection of generic facts about an insignificant school. This is not an encyclopedia article. Individual schools are not inherently encyclopedic and there is nothing to distinguish insignificant schools like this one from thousands of nearly identical schools around the world. [[User:Gamaliel|Gamaliel]] 22:15, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' all high schools. --[[User:Unfocused|Unfocused]] 06:23, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
*All the angry Inclusionist outbursts in the world aren't going to sway my '''Delete'''! This is NOT noteworthy enough I'm afraid. I cannot possibly word it better than [[User:Gamaliel|Gamaliel]] did. "''Useless collection of generic facts about an insignificant school. This is not an encyclopedia article. Individual schools are not inherently encyclopedic and there is nothing to distinguish insignificant schools like this one from thousands of nearly identical schools around the world.''" My sentiments exactly. I'm beginning to think we need to launch WikiSchools to stop this angry "all schools are auto-notable!" idealism once and for all. [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Master Thief Garrett]] 05:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
** Part of the problem here is the presumption that there is consensus that "non-notability" is sufficient grounds for deletion. Deletionists toss around "non-notable" as if it meant something. Some don't even bother with that and shorten it to "NN". Let's be clear: no such consensus exists. See [[Wikipedia_talk:Fame_and_importance#No|Jimbo Wales' view on notability]], as expressed in the poll where notability failed to become an accepted reason for deletion. The school may be insiginficant to you, but that does not mean that it is insignificant to readers living in Georgia. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 19:52, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
***No, there's no consensus, but notability is often the sole reason given for a deletion vote here on Vfd, so it's become pseudo-policy. While I am definitely a mergist by nature (in that I want any and all useful tidbits to be united together, see [[Wikipedia:Pokeprosal]]), when something can't be merged in order to make it more useful than it can ever possibly hope to be in its current form... I'm at a loss and choose Delete.
::Conversely, what role *exactly* will an article about this school play on Wikipedia? Will it be a fascinating and detailed article, will it cover interesting things that non-Georgians want to read... or could one use speedy methods like Search and Replace to turn it into an article about any of dozens of other similar schools?
::You say the school is not very significant to me; that is true, BUT the schools in my town are also insignificant to me. Are they interesting to me? Yes, quite. Would I expect to find them in an encyclopedia? No, because the vast, vast, VAST majority called the Outside World don't give a ****. Things that seem great to you are useless to others.
::That is the key, really, who are we writing Wikipedia for, the entire world or selective groups? Is it supposed to be collective consciousness or "schools and streets and clubs in townnamehere" with selective readerships for each cloister? "oh, the whole world of course!" you quickly reply. But who is interested in a school outside of their state/province/country? Probably very few, unless it's [[Colombine]] or similar.
::As with my work at [[Wikipedia:Pokeprosal]], I'd be blissfully happy if we could have things like [[High Schools in Georgia]] with subsections for each one. On their own they are entirely non-notable to all but an extremely select few (i.e., those in direct contact with them) but when put together can become an interesting look at high-school education in Georgia as a whole. THAT would be interesting. WP pages that are virtually NPOV equivalents of enrollment handouts for parents aren't.
::Please understand me when I say this isn't favouritism, that even my *own* educational institutions are completely and utterly unworthy of individual articles here. It does not matter how near and dear they are to me and others, but what the outside world knows of them, or cares of them. That is not to say you shouldn't seek to learn things you don't know (as I am increasingly doing thanks to Vfds) but... yeah... pretty much all I'm saying has been voiced before on every ****ing Schoolwatch topic to date.
::We have rules about notability of books, websites, bands, people, fictional characters, songs, etc., but nothing about schools. As yet anyway. Well, there's BEEFSTEW but that doesn't necessarily help and isn't "carved on a bronze plaque" yet. This Vfd should be an open-and-shut case with people assessing it based on their own opinion and the guidelines. As it is, every one of them dissolves into an "ethical" battle between "Schoolwatch fanboys" and "deletionist cronies". Now, if you'll excuse me, I have vanity pages to cull. THOSE at least don't have hangers-on... [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Master Thief Garrett]] 07:01, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
:::"No, there's no consensus, but notability is often the sole reason given for a deletion vote here on Vfd, so it's become pseudo-policy." So, because deletionists throw "non-notable" around as if it meant something, then it's a pseudo-policy? That would make it, in my opinion, a pseudo-argument, i.e., not a real one. Sorry, mob-rule doesn't work here.
:::"the vast, vast, VAST majority called the Outside World don't give a ****. Things that seem great to you are useless to others." I can assure you that Pokemon doesn't interest me in the least. I paid some attention to it while my nieces and nephews were into it, but now that they're all over the age of 9, it is too uncool for them. But hey, if it interests you, then why not include it on Wikipedia? My area of interest is not American high schools, but minor canadian political parties and politicians. It is great that there is a space like Wikipedia for those of us with that obscure interest -- which is not just uncool for 9-year-olds, it is uncool for people of all ages -- to share information.
:::"Is it supposed to be collective consciousness or "schools and streets and clubs in townnamehere" with selective readerships for each cloister?" With over 500,000 articles in the English version alone, Wikipedia is not going to be a summary of the most important collected knowledge, but a vast compendium of information that its editors want to write about. Endless articles on Pokemon, or even omnibus articles as you propose, do not, in my opinion, form a part of the collective consciousness. Pokemon will be gone in 10 years or so.
:::BEEFSTEW "isn't "carved on a bronze plaque" yet" - I don't think you carve bronze plaques, you engrave them. (Forgive my pendantry. It is an affliction.)
:::"As it is, every one of them dissolves into an "ethical" battle between "Schoolwatch fanboys" and "deletionist cronies"" Right you are. I think the best solution is for each side to retreat to their own corners -- let the schoolnuts have their articles, I can go back to my obscure Canadian political stuff, and you can have yours about Pokemon and whatever else strikes your fancy. There are lots of good reasons to delete: vanity, unverifiability, original research, etc. I see no need to add the controversial and inherently POV "non-notability". [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 13:57, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. What is gained by deleting school articles? Err on the side of keeping such articles. --[[User:Zantastik|Zantastik]] 19:37, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. Wikipedia would not be improved by the deletion of this article. <tt>'''~'''[[User:Leif|leif]]</tt> &#9786; <sub>([[User_talk:Leif|talk]])</sub> 01:35, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
**But will WP be improved by it remaining? Hmmm... [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Master Thief Garrett]] 07:01, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unless wikipedia wants a boring, pointless article for every average school in every country. [[User:CDThieme|CDThieme]]
*'''Delete''' Wikipedia != Triviapedia, infinite storage does not change our charter. Instutional Vanity. [[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] 06:20, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

:''This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. '''Please do not edit this page'''.'' </div>

Latest revision as of 17:29, 18 February 2023